Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[Cooperative Sheep]

Yep. I wish more people were talking because I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS. Right now I lean towards RC being town and gerryoat being scum, but I'll read over the game again just to be sure before voting.

RC vs Gerry is such a shitfest they're probably not both scum on the same team, couldn't tell you which one is more likely to flip scum tho tbh

How come neither of you (or at least Vifam) is affected by the cop claim as far as assessing a TvS theory setup?
I would think that would tend to sharply affect your value call if you were pretty sure at least one, but not both players were scum.

If I had to put money on it Id say RC is town, I dont wanna lynch Gerry or RC today tho

Why do you not want to lynch Gerry? He seems a perfectly fine lynch option.

I don't really see the Keyser love, but neither do I have an issue with the play from that slot so...I kinda tend to expect him to be town and at least one of the fanboi's to be scum sheeping him.
I see RC as town.
I'd be happy to lynch Gerry.
I also am not overly fond of Alisae or Vifam and would consider them secondary scum reads at this stage.
I don't share the Rauth dislike, he's a clear newb so pointing out a newbtown or newbscum issue with him is a bit like telling me grass is green. IIoA ahoy!

In the spirit of the purpose of this alt;

Vote: Grendel

[Cooperative Sheep]

fanboi's to be scum sheeping him.

This should be clarified to scum *buddying* him, especially in light of my vote

[Cooperative Sheep]

Aw, c'mon, don't be a Larry Lurker.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Why do you not want to lynch Gerry? He seems a perfectly fine lynch option.

I like Gerry

So do you "like" like him, or do you feel he's town?
Because if the former - I like everybody, doesn't mean I don't occasionally stretch some necks to get some flips.
If the latter - then I'm kinda gonna return buddy JarJar and second his question to you.

great opening post from coopsheep

Thank you.
Would you be interested in joining me and the other sheep on the Grendel wagon for pressure and joy? I mildly vibe you as town right now (also I love being buddied) and I'd kind of like to see where this goes.
I am not buying into RC as a valid wagon for the day (assuredly not right at this moment), and think your vote could be more helpful somewhere else - unless you see some support for that wagon/want to explain to me why I should hop over and sheep you?

[Cooperative Sheep]

I just like having Gerry in the game he's entertaining

Aw, c'mon now, you know that's not a valid reason in the context of the game.
He and RC have some serious interactions - surely you can get a read there beyond just liking someone as a person, especially when you're tossing around TvS language.

[Cooperative Sheep]

For me the telling point of RC's argument was how Gerry immediately reacted with discrediting as the response - it seemed like an odd reaction considering earlier stances towards RC. Do you think that seemed in character for a town Gerry?

Also, if you town read RC for the interactions and null read Gerry - why did you even bring up the TvS concept like you did? It feels like you're changing your story to me, and that vibes a bit scummy to my sheepy heart.

[Cooperative Sheep]

RC vs Gerry is such a shitfest they're probably not both scum on the same team, couldn't tell you which one is more likely to flip scum tho tbh

[/quote]
Looking at it again, I suppose I could squint a bit and get a "not claiming TvS" concept out of this.
I assuredly do not get a "town reading RC null on Gerry" concept though.
I'm going to stand by my initial comment of feeling you're changing your story, but will agree that you didn't explicitly mention TvS - that said, this comment does not line up with a town reading RC from the interactions sort of statement so I do think you're changing stances here.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Nah I just don't think they could be scum on the same team


I've never played with Gerry before but personally I didn't really take RC's cop claim that seriously

You did indicate though that you were not sure which was more likely to flip scum while also saying that you town read RC from the exchange - am I misunderstanding something there?
Also, what's your take on the Grendel wagon?

That's the reason I'm reading over the game again. I don't know how to handle a claim like that, I'm trying to figure out if I should trust RC's claim or not.

For me the logic breaks down something like this;

1. RC is lying and plans to admit it - that makes the action a reaction test, and alignment neutral, I tend to analyze the claimed reaction scumhunting afterwards.

2. RC is lying and does not plan to admit it - that would make RC scum and a bad player, or just a bad player. I, personally, don't think RC is a bad player.

3. RC is telling the truth, or at least some variant of it - that would make RC town, or that would make RC a scum PR who is accepting on Day 1 that they are not really planning to make it till lylo with their team.

I see option 2 as highly unlikely.
Option 1 should be treated like option 3 until RC plans to reveal - so option 1 is meaningless.
Option 3 tends o suggest that the best move is to not lynch RC, and analyze again tomorrow with more info.

Until I get some other info, I'm going with Option 3 and presuming town.
What are your thoughts on my breakdown and does it differ from your thoughts?

[Cooperative Sheep]

What's the Grendel lynch about

I think it's about pressure and consensus.

Who the fuck is cooperative sheep when the fuck did they get here

I'm Cooperative Sheep - I got here today....I...don't know what is confusing or shocking about that, and since you actually didn't say anything about my actions I'm not sure the point. Do you have a point here?

Oi dumbasses. Do you really think that if Gerryoat were town then absolutely no one would be interested in jumping on a hard pushed wagon and blaming me for it?

Too many people are expressing vague interest and not voting that wagon for it all to be scum subterfuge - so there has to be something not really clicking for town players also.

It's your scumbuddies trying to get him quicklynched to keep you alive. I mean I think it's shit play since you're all goign to be fucking obvious scum tomorrow but whatever floats your collective boat.

Who do you see as the Gerry scumbuddies pressing the alternate wagon?

Hey cooperative sheep, are you a fan of the word 'grok'?

This is a strange land and I'm just a stranger

I don't share the Rauth dislike, he's a clear newb so pointing out a newbtown or newbscum issue with him is a bit like telling me grass is green. IIoA ahoy!

could you explain?

Sure! I noted people getting all excited to apply newb tells to him, while failing to note that a newb tell is alignment neutral. They would even say things like 'he's either newb town, or newb scum due to X' while Rauth was actively claiming to be newb - which is a bit like saying I have a sheep for an avatar. Sure, it's true - but it's of no benefit to figuring out my alignment, so why bother bringing it up? I was pointing out that people were doing IIoA because they were saying things tht might look like scumhunting - but which are assuredly not.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I would reverse those names in a heartbeat. Why does Rauth vibe more scum than Vifam at this moment? She's assuredly soft deflected and been wishy washy about Gerry more than any other player in this game at this point.

[Cooperative Sheep]

The above within the concept that Gerry is scum, naturally.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I don't see how I've been wishy washy about Gerry, never said I was interested in lynching him or thought he was scum

You certainly implied it though, and then defended the idea of not lynching him off of the meaningless-to-alignment tell of liking him. It's not a smoking gun, but if he's scum you've done actions that I can easily describe as defensive and deflective for the slot while also doing some sort of vague either-or setup for no discernible reason. It reads to me as a soft setup to allow you to push a false argument (one of them is scum, options open) but when questioned on it you kind of did an awkward defense of both. I think it reads as softly scummy in general, and if Gerry is scum I could see it as defense. Clearly you'll disagree, because either you're scum who will lie or you're town who did it without malice - but it's what it looks like to me.

Because from specifically Gerry's posting the interactions between Gerry/Rautherdir look way imore SvS than Gerry/Vifam's. I concede that in a vacuum Vifam is probably scummier.

How does the Gerry/Rauth thing line up in your mind exactly?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Most of that, outside of Rauth not really owning a reaction to the RC v. Gerry situation, seems to be from Gerry's side, which could just as easily be scum Gerry faking a partnership since it's not a two way dance.
The reaction to the wagons, at least for me, falls within expected norms for Newbies. I think I'd still be more of a mind to flip a Vifam than a Rauth on a Gerry scum confirmation. I don't think your thoughts are insane-o sauce, but I feel like you're overlooking a hill for a pile of sand you built yourself as far as strength of connections go.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Spoiler: Garrulous Grendel

I don't understand the purpose of my wagon.

For instance I noticed a lack of "Grendel is scum comments".

That'd suggest that my wagon is supposed to be for pressure. Whats off though is that given that there are other players out that that have garnered actual suspicion my wagon just seems like... an excuse? The very same people on my wagon have proclaimed other players as scummy, but opted to pressure vote me instead. So, why are ppl so afraid to vote their scum reads?

I seem to recall Kiser being the only one actually suspicious of my slot. I don't recall the same for the rest. :/

Not to mention that there has been zero resistance to my wagon.

The purpose for your wagon would be pressure and to see what happens - also, it's not like I town read you, and I do town read someone voting you. Is it really that strange of a wagon to you? This feels like a very normal strategy and not something surprising or unusual.

I agree there has been very little resistance to your wagon - I'm not sure I care to come all the way along the primrose path you'd like to have laid out in that regard, especially with your choice of the other hot topic wagon option for your vote, but I do agree with the statement.

If I had to put money on it Id say RC is town, I dont wanna lynch Gerry or RC today tho

Why do you not want to lynch Gerry? He seems a perfectly fine lynch option.

I don't really see the Keyser love, but neither do I have an issue with the play from that slot so...I

kinda tend to expect him to be town

and at least one of the fanboi's to be scum sheeping him.
I see RC as town.
I'd be happy to lynch Gerry.
I also am not overly fond of Alisae or Vifam and would consider them secondary scum reads at this stage.
I don't share the Rauth dislike, he's a clear newb so pointing out a newbtown or newbscum issue with him is a bit like telling me grass is green. IIoA ahoy!

In the spirit of the purpose of this alt;

Vote: Grendel

Gives piece meal statements about Gerry being a good wagon then votes Grendel b/c, " lol, Its my flavor"

Has a null read on Keyser. Which means that Sheep is sheeping a null read, while ignoring a wagon started by a town read (RC) on a slot he thinks is a good lynch (Gerry).

Huh.

Bolded something you might have missed - hope that helps.
With the revelation that I stated a town read on Keyser - how does that affect/not affect your stance as softly presented here?

Sheep's vote was the turning point for my wagon's pick up.

Yay/Nay?

Yay - it's not even a question, it was the obvious tip point. Now, from that observation, what conclusion do you draw?

The above within the concept that Gerry is scum, naturally.

I really dislike how they keep batting about their potential scum reads, meanwhile voting somebody who isn't even mentioned as a tertiary scum read.

It doesn't make any sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? I am unaware of having a pre defined meta of aggro tunnel on Day 1, so exploring other lynch options seems perfectly reasonable.
If I had said 'I suspect Grendel because my strongest town read is voting him, so I'll sheep' would that have abolished your stated issue? (because...well, I kinda did say exactly that) and if it doesn't abolish your issue, why not?

Yeah but like Grendal said on this page it's weird how he points out Grendal made a good point about Rau, but goes on to vote him without a word

What about my direct request that he sheep me onto Grendel - does that make his vote shift more or less suspect? Because since his vote was on RC doing nothing, and his Rau point didn't make him move his vote, we kind of have two possibilities.

1. The one you and Grendel are shopping - that he is scum who is indifferent about where he votes as long as he lynches town.

2. That he is town who doesn't have a strong enough opinion yet to marry himself to a wagon.

Both options seem quite feasible at this stage of the game - why do you classify it as "weird" and thus suspect it is scummy? Like, I never directly explained my scum read on Grendel, and poked at you more than I have Gerry (while calling you a lesser suspect) am I "weird" also? You're calling me town, so that seems like I'm missing something in how you're processing these issues.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Plus, his explicit and balanced explanations of his reads and positions so far complement his 'looking for answers' persona. He posts in a style which will be hard to lynch.

Aw, thank you, that is part of my general secondary goal with this alt.
I'm still working on whether the primary goal does or doesn't parse, but that will likely take a few games to even begin to process, naturally.

[Cooperative Sheep]

412 -- I liked this post, but I don't understand why you say you'd be happy to lynch Gerry, but then voted Grendel. Why was Grendel a better use for your vote than Gerry if you thought Gerry could be scum? At this point in time Grendel was null for me. I understand that you're name is "sheep" but Gerry also had 2 votes at the time you could have sheeped that wagon too.

I have explained this in thread already (a very quick recap would be intentional sheeping of top town read and not exactly town reading Grendel either). He was also a better use because we'd literally had about two pages straight of info to assess on Gerry as he'd just had that huge blow up debate with RC whereas we didn't on Grendel (and, I would note, that when he came back to pressure we got an immediate and strong reaction from Grendel and a lot of posts as well).

Does that clarify my purpose?

how do you tr alisae

I liked his interactions with you, and RC. Just felt genuine to me.

Could you specifically quote/link one of the interactions you liked from Alisae and explain why you liked it? I found Alisae's posting during that period (presuming it's the blow up) to feel devoid of willingness to state an opinion, maybe you're reading that as unsureness, but I perceived reasonable chance of scum just not wanting to lock into a thought.

That coupled with I'm always a little more cautious with more experienced players because I don't know how well they can fake their town game puts you and Grendel at the top for me.

Do you have experience/insight into how Alisae and Grendel generally play as scum/town that you are using to form your town read of them?
If so I would very much like to hear some of those thoughts.
If not, then why does confidence they can't fake their town play even become a stance, since you don't know what their town play would look like anyway?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Just to let people know where I'm standing at the moment;

I pretty much stand by my thoughts as initially presented in my first post. New additions are that I (guardedly, and I want to see his answers to some of my above questions) move Mattblack to town. I'm doing this because his strong Grendel/Alisae reads are so out of left field as to be a red flag that assures him abuse and attention on his reads. I tend to suspect scum would try to present a read list that more conformed to the general town flow.

I can see the Grendel wagon faltering, I tend to feel it's faltering due to his burst of activity, which doesn't fully appease me as I'd like to see him respond to some of my thoughts, and it really was just a quick burst of activity rather than a quick burst of town seeming activity. All he did was pretty much attack the people attacking him, which is alignment null in my opinion, so I'm quite content to leave my own vote there and see if/how he responds to my questions.

I generally like the attack on Transcend from Keyser, it feeds into my own reaction to his "who da fuq is dat Sheep fellow, whot!?!" post and is why I asked him about it because that did feel fake.

I'm kinda unsurprised that RC is now shopping a Transcend+Gerry team because, yeah, let's do that. I luvs ya RC, you are in a tunnel right now, and I can understand the purpose, but let's dial back the paranoia a bit.

Also (and sorry)

V/LA till Feb 2

Basically not *quite* 48 hours without my lovable face, but on the off chance I opt to just go to sleep when I get home as opposed to log in here, safer to declare.

[Cooperative Sheep]

As to why I never commented on Grendel's wagon, I didn't have enough information to make a read on Grendel.

And as to Gerry... I'm just going to ignore him for a while. I'll probably support a wagon on him later on though, when I don't have anyone else to bother. I'm trying to avoid the tunneling problem I had last game.

So you went back, read over the game, decided Gerry was probably scum, and also (my presumption) decided you didn't know enough about other players so wanted to pressure them (which makes sense to me, and I like your Transcend pressure) but you're also choosing to avoid figuring out the Grendel thing. That seems a little random, why are you trying to sort everything except Grendel?

(missed this when compiling my quotes - sorry for triple post awesome wall)

[Cooperative Sheep]

Vote: Transcend

I find Vifam's behavior yesterday to be incredibly aggressive scum.
I find Transcend to be skating sneaky scum.
I think one is more likely than the other.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I don't see much advantage to sitting around communally trying to figure out someone's PR at a point a surprising number of the people doing so aren't voting said slot. Like, if you don't think they're scum - what are you doing?

That's pretty much what I was thinking: but I think that on principle I have to lynch Zifam today.

No, we really don't. Especially if you present up the policy lynch angle. Was the play bad? Sure. Can you show me Vifam being brazen scum in other games? Because if you can't, then I don't see the value of the case.

The Transcend case has value - he is contributing nothing, and had suspect vote movement yesterday considering flips, and also is a slot that works within the confines of a 'don't jar the status quo' potential kill.

Did you all forget to to read Gerrys role?

He flipped cop, RC claimed cop. This isn't rocket science.

Considering that RC claimed 'a variety of cop' it actual isn't open and shut either. It's not a direct counter flip. If I scumread RC more independantly I'd have an issue - but I don't, so this case isn't overly compelling.

What's your take on Transcend's contributions to the game thus far?

Alisae is a weird kill seeing as most people had key widely townread, I don't remember anyone having any strong townreads from Alisae

Fear of Doc or a status quo kill would be my working theory.
What's yours?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Grendel wagon yesterday sucked and it contained {Keyser, matt, Sheep, JarJar, Vifam}

I bet at least 2 scum were here.

By what logic do you conclude one scum on a known town PR flip and 2 scum on an unknown flip that you're not even overly confident is town?

What's your take on Transcend's contributions to the game thus far?

I think they suck.

Why do you not apply a scum alignment to him with that as your opinion of his play?

I was originally interested in Gerry before RC vs Gerry occurred. I generally like to have open reasoning out for critiques before voting. Saying that i voted my counter wagon, _just_ because it was my counter wagon is unfair. Also people had reservations about Gerry, and i probably could have done as well pushing Ruath instead.

You didn't make those stances clear at the time, and the vote did look survivalistic to me. Clearly you'd disagree, but from someone splitting hairs about "how townie did Sheep really state Keyser" as a basis to suspect me - I'm curious why you wanted me to presume things you didn't even remotely imply. Double standard?

Prefacing it with “I Don’t get the strong town reads”, along with the usage of both “Kinda tend”, made me think the “town read” was weak enough to assume that he was null. You hamming it up to be a strong town read looks like an exaggeration. Did you go on to reference Seyser as more then kinda sorta town read before I made the above posts?

Your previous issue with me was that I didn't sheep a town read but sheeped someone I didn't town read.
Now that you're aware I at least stated Keyser as my second strongest town read - your issue is that I didn't sheep a potentially stronger town read. You also made up that I called it a strong town read, i just said I town read him - which my words support.
Goal posts, they be a movin'.

Well you were in my scum reads weren’t you?

Why do you think scum would hop onto the wagon opportunistically *before* it hit a tipping point? To be opportunistic doesn't the hop have to be after the tipping point?

I’m not sure where a stand on you, currently. I can’t help but feel that you have been manipulative.

Why?
I have literally not acheived any of my stated lynch goals yet in this game - what am I manipulating? Unless I manipulated you into voting Gerry somehow...?

Hey you smurfs what are all of your Matt reads?

Null to town.

The fact that Keyser didn't make a vote outside of RVS yet was still active is a little concerning.

You don't think the day ending a bit suddenly might have something to do with that? I don't even think he was on between the fall of the Grendel and the hammer of the Gerry wagon until right at the end when he complained about it.

When did I make an emotional appeal

The obvious one would have been with the "Aw man, I screwed up, I feel bad" post - which is arguably an emotional appeal to make us go "yes, i too remember times I've screwed up in games and felt bad" in an attempt to get sympathy and avoid a lynch.

I do not know what is in Transcend's head. I do not know his motivations. All I see so far are the results of his actions.

I am unlikely to vote for Transcend today.

You explained the other two (which I agree with) you did not explain this one. Could you? I have Transcend tunneled right now.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

Hard to tell in text - if he had said "Suuuuuuure I care" then, yeah, sarcastic, if he had said "Sure I care" then, no. Can't tell without tonal inflections.

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

Could you tell me whyI should sheep onto Matt and also why you didn't sheep onto Transcend?

[Cooperative Sheep]

I don't really do cases, just reasons:

That's cool, I consider them the same thing

I don't like how he opened today, feels like he should be voting for RC or Keyser.

How come this? (I can understand your other points)

As to why I didn't sheep you on to Transcend is because I don't really have a read on your slot and from what I remember of D1, Transcend didn't come off as scummy.

Do you feel Transcend is town or null?

Wouldn't that just make him a bad/illogical player as opposed to scum?

Exclusive of alignment, it was an illogical progression of opinion-meditation-action. I.e his actions did not complement his perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong - you created a town read off Vifam due to the play being so terrible as to be unwise for scum to do (which it was).
I would think that getting a scum read off of it is an equally valid opinion (play so terrible it is unwise for town to do - which it was).
At that point, if his logic here is empty, isn't yours equally empty?

Also, could you expand on why you logic Transcend as town? I understood your reasoning on RC and Vifam, but you offered none on Transcend.

Oh and as far as JarJar goes his push on RC is towniest thing I've seen so far on day 2. The tone was genuine, and all his points so far toward RC are valid concerns yet everyone is ignoring him.

I don't think it's fair to say that people are ignoring him. Two of his points are;

1. RC fake claims cop as scum.
2. RC's "fake" claim is countered by the Gerry flip.

I know I and at least one other person addressed #2 noting that it wasn't a direct counter claim in any way.
I know at least one person addressed #1 noting it is within RC's town meta to fakeclaim cop just as much as within his scum meta - making the play maybe bad, but not a good alignment tell.

What other points of JarJar's do you find good that people are ignoring?
What about the above equates to ignoring?
I'll agree that people aren't agreeing with him - is that what you meant to say? If so, what about his concerns do you find valid in the face of the counter arguments offered against it?

[Cooperative Sheep]

I'd think it's too early to call teams. I don't have any reason to rule them out as a team - but that's true for a huge swathe of theory teams.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Transcend is still probably scum as well but I'm much less sure and I feel like if we keep pressure up on him and force him to engage me we'll eventually know for sure.

Wouldn't it be easier to do that if you pressured him via a vote and/or tried to engage him with direct questioning?
You aren't doing either, so I'm not sure I follow.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Idk. Knowing that I'm not going to die to nightkills tonight makes me feel like I'm in no rush to really do anything and I feel like Transcend is burnt out of mafia atm regardless of alignment so I am fine giving them space.

Not really a fan of that as a strategy.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I think now that I pointed it out it should be clear that I was suspecting Gerry early with my posts, You disagree?

Yeah, I do. You offered some general stabs at him in a soft/jokey manner. You did the same to many other people - if you suspected him at best I would be able to create a list of about five or six names you suspected equally. The vote did feel out of nowhere and without support.

I’m not sure where a stand on you, currently. I can’t help but feel that you have been manipulative.

Why?
I have literally not acheived any of my stated lynch goals yet in this game - what am I manipulating? Unless I manipulated you into voting Gerry somehow...?

I feel like you're trying to do more to prove me dumb rather then prove me scum. If that makes sense.

No, I'm not with you on that - I just asked why you think I'm manipulative. Do you feel I'm trying to manipulate you/make you look dumb by asking why you think I'm manipulative? I think when you make the accusation you ought to be able to talk about it to some degree - or at least tell me it's just a gut vibe or something.

Still owe 38+

[Cooperative Sheep]

Cause like look @ this first post of the day from Matt:

VOTE: Vifam

RC, why didn't you reveal it was just a reaction test, and you weren't actually the cop yesterday?

It doesn't really make sense that his first reaction to Gerrys flip is that RC was reaction testing. Like shouldn't he have considered that RC was scum that got caught fakeclaiming? Especially considering that he soon starting pushing RC-scum soon after.

RC scum still makes more sense. But Town RC/Town Matt makes no sense.

This is a really good point, that I agree with - I'll move Matt into an acceptable lynch slot now.
Don't feel the Rauth hate.
Still think Transcend is very scummy.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I like the cut of your jib.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Grendel - I *am* trying to prove that the idea I'm manipulative is wrong, because I know it is. Therefore if you are town it behooves me to smash the case, and if you're scum trying to mislynch me it behooves me to smash the case. I'm also at the same time trying to tell the difference in your motive for the case I'm smashing, so I can get a read on you - so, sure, there is case smashing there. Looks like it worked too, as manipulation is currently off the table - not sure I get a solid read from the wait and redraw battle lines later response, but...eh, everything can't be a win I suppose.

38+ was a page number reference for my catchup.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Sheep What's your read on Grendel? I can't tell if you're actually scumreading him or not. I still think his reaction to his wagon yesterday was towny, and nothing he said so far day 2 pinged me as scummy. Kinda feels like you guys are wasting time arguing with each other when I think both of you guys are town

Gun to my head I'd call Grendel a scum read, but it's not a 'this is crystal clear in my head' sort of read. I am finding him kind of evasive by nature, I haven't really liked his votes, a wagon on him was reversed to a town flip very quickly, and his manipulative commentary shifting to 'you're arguing that my case for you being scum is incorrect' feels like a pretty awkward shift.

If Transcend was mod cleared right now, I'd probably try to restart a wagon on him because I'm conflicted on Vifam's scum arc.
So, actually I think I talked myself into it, he's probably my second most desired flip - something feels off there. Transcend is a solidly stronger scum read though.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Transcend - could you address my question about the Gerry wagon (why you think 1 scum on a known town flip and 2 scum on an unknown wagon - both being very fast RVS wagons) I think the lack of any explained/clear logic there paired with your lack of any other content is really the case on you in a nutshell.

I'm quite happy you're at L-1 and would support a hammer intent also.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Transcend - whether or not you think you made a case on Gerry what I am referring to was your position that two scum were on the Grendel wagon and one was on the Gerry wagon. Can you explain that position/thought/case/opinion/insert descriptor of your choice if it gets thoughts offered.

@Vifam - as stated before, I scum read him, straight up.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Vifam - ignore me!

@Akarin - as mentioned before, I scum read him - straight up.

[Cooperative Sheep]

hi

how do i avoid this lynch

Well, for the third time;

@Transcend - whether or not you think you made a case on Gerry what I am referring to was your position that two scum were on the Grendel wagon and one was on the Gerry wagon. Can you explain that position/thought/case/opinion/insert descriptor of your choice if it gets thoughts offered.

i contributed something to the game

if i encouraged a quickhammer on scum would you be this pissy

i really doubt it

I certainly wouldn't be.
But considering you did encourage a quick wagon on town instead - why would you act surprised that people have some issues with your slot?

Not lynching Transcend when 2 of my top scumreads are on his wagon. Not to mention the whole case on him is mainly just a policy lynch that we learn nothing from if he flips town.

What about my case on him, which is not policy. Do you have a positive or negative impression on it and why? Clearly it's not selling you - I just want your opinion on record.

[Cooperative Sheep]

have I claimed yet? If not, I'm a VT.

This feels very fake to me.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Nancy - I feel I've actually been quite clear about my Transcend issues and am a little miffed you toss me in as an 'activity' person when I was the one person voting Transcend who explicitly stated otherwise.

I will agree that "activity" is a part of what I would call my "gut" read there - I can't really go into this due to being an alt/ongoings but will say that I am generally familiar with Transcend's play and there is a difference between him doing spit - and him not posting much. He does the latter as both alignments, I feel he only does the former as scum - he was assuredly doing the former in this game.

Also, as a point I brought up three times against Transcend (maybe more) I noted that I though the crux of the case on him was that he assigned the 2 scum on the Grendel non-flip wagon and one on the Gerry known town flip wagon and absolutely was ducking explaining why he had that as a working theory - the closest I could make up as his reason would be him saying "mah town reads are on the Gerry wagon!" but that then kind of requires him to be able to explain how they're town reads, which he never did. So basically he presented a false premise based on gut reads - and it was a false premise that specifically allowed him to target more people that were attacking him, and also to ignore his own shoddy behavior around the town wagon Day 1 - neither of which strike me as town motivated behaviors.

Do you understand my case now?

I also find you replacing in, looking at the game enough to assess a Vote Count but not looking at it enough to see all the unvotes and the mirror claim to just ring very fake and unlikely.
Which I am now adding to the overall case on your slot.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Like, if your claim was "I confirm the VT claim" I'd have bought it more - I just don't believe you only looked at the Vote Count and decided to immediately claim with no further assessment of the game.
I don't buy it at all.

[Cooperative Sheep]

People are giving Nancy too easy of a pass - could someone explain how they perceive her slightly too much info timeline as reality exactly?

@Matt
@RC

I would specifically like to see each of you address the above.

Grendel actually looks slightly more town over the last few pages, though his 'why do town PR's act scummy!?!' reaction seems awkward, especially if he was one of the ones pushing on Rauth for being too sure about RC's claim. I'm too lazy to go back and look right now, if he wasn't, I'll call him null to me now, if he was he's a pure and clear scum methinks.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I should mention I'm getting better vibes off Akarin than I was - albeit possibly just because the slot is doing anything at all, but I generally liked their flow, so wouldn't support a lynch there today.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Grendel - the issues is the point of calling Rauth scum for buying into RC's claim yet also immediately buying into Rauth's claim when you, theoretically, suspect him. It's not a bonfire of hypocrisy, but it's at least a flame.

@RC - I don't get you calling me out for not being a factor in the game as scummy.
So far in this game we've lynched one scum, and run up two claimed PRs (of which I presume you'll calim at least one is confirmed town ) I opposed all three operations - so unless your claim is I'm scum playing hardcore pro-town to avoid lynch (and in which case, why not sheep me a bit, since clearly I'll be hard bussing too...) I don't get the point. Yeah, I haven't been part of any of the major operations that have happened, but that puts me on the town side of history as far as I can see - you disagree?

[Cooperative Sheep]

People are giving Nancy too easy of a pass - could someone explain how they perceive her slightly too much info timeline as reality exactly?

@Matt
@RC

@Matt
@RC


Pedit - @RC - okay, I know it's fair, and it's fine that you weren't planning to push me, but do you believe what you said? I don't care if my defense sounds fair, I'm curious why you believe what you said.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Sounds like if you think I'm scum you should sheep a lot of my reads, and if it's possible I'm town you should sheep a lot of my reads.

Want to address my Nancy issue now? Maybe sheep me?

[Cooperative Sheep]

I mean, seriously, if I'm scum playing to look right all the time - I gotta be bussing at least one buddy, right?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Then explain it to me.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I actually just typed scum when I meant town.

@RC - My post at the top of this page is still waiting, lonely and unresponded to.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Grendel - I can understand a defense of your 'why should I believe Rauth's claim' by pointing out he is newbie, and might claim early, making his claim more believable.
That appears to leave an extra hole in your 'Why did Rauth believe RC' point, because the same logic would appear to hold true, newbies do tend to be more forgiving of PR claims across the board, yet you cited it as a scumtell. I remain scum vibbed on your stances.

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ASK WHY PEOPLE ARE IGNORING THE EVERLOVING SPIT OUT OF MY NANCE CASE?

Seriously, i can't even get people to discuss it with me.

[Cooperative Sheep]

JJD is (yet another townread of mine random blitzed to L-1...) the only one with the balls to even point out how BS sounding her reaction test was.
Like, look at her answer, "I 90% thought RC was town - so I hard pushed him as a test". Serious now? Probably like how she was laser guided to note she was at L-1, but immediately claimed without seeing if she had already claimed, or if people were still voting her - but at least she told us she was on a phone, y'know, to add empty veracity to her made up story.

[Cooperative Sheep]

So I lurked this thread Day 1 but I hadn't kept up since start of Day 2. TR on Keyser and JJD. The scum on my wagon is RC and possibly Sheep.

Vifam is probably Town. I can't find any scum motivation behind just about any of their posts. I don't think 513 and 823 come from scum!Vifam basically ever.

At first look I don't see how 990 can be written by Town. Poverty of scumreads, blind acceptance of RC's PR claim, unsolicited NK analysis with mention of Aslan (aka Alisae) that looks like scum attempting dumbtell. 867 is lynch shopping. Backing off my wagon before the trigger was pulled looks like scum not wanting to get their hands dirty. 1045 sounds contrived. All of this paints Rauth as scum until you take into consideration that he's a newb, at which point all of his dumbtelling and apparent scumminess becomes newb!town. I TR this slot.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Spoiler:

I can still want an answer for it. Maybe he did actually townread my early posts or maybe he just wanted to buddy me and do what's not!hisscummetaforgameswithme.

Am I meant to TR you because you're implying that other people might be scum trying to avoid being scumhunted by you? If so, no.

Why are you assuming that I'm trying to push the game back in the direction of RVS? What do I seem different than, since I don't recall playing with you?
I have a serious vote on someone that

I think is decently more likely than average

to be scum.

Waffle bold. Second line is scum!RC waiting for a better deathtunnel lead than a scumbait post (208). First line is sensing someone who might get in the way of his control of the game and baiting them (gerryoat) into a fight RC knows they'll lose. See 221, 222 and 233 (both quoted below), and so on for the obvious follow up.

You know newbscum Gerry reminds me of newbscum me. Go in super hard and call everyone exaggerated scumreads for virtually no reasons. Show me what you can do, scum!Gerry.

Isn't this what you're still doing? You're just more adept at it, now, and you have a reputation to back you up.

Overly defensive? you discredited my push and it looked like you were making a batshit insane comment about my play. How were you expecting Town!RC to respond to that, exactly?

There was no push. Refer to my response to your 222 immediately above.

Also Scum!RC doesn't so much appease people who scumread him as he turns on them and destroys their hopes and dreams and powerlynches them.

You said it.

And just remember that I play every single game that I'm in differently, regardless of alignment, so unless you have an intricate understanding of my meta I would not compare me from game to game.

Meta is unreliable, I don't pay much mind to it, you're playing like a scumfuck this game so I'm willing to bet you're a scumfuck this game.

Yes, I referred to Scum!RC in the third person because Scum!RC

isn't actually me because I'm not scum.

Or maybe I'm just a major egoist who can't help himself!

The latter.

That's how I feel about everything that you've said about my slot but you don't hear me complaining.

You just OMGUSed him and called for a powerlynch, so yes, I do hear you complaining.

Uh ok lmao. Just because you claim cop doesn't mean I'm mafia.

Also I don't feel like I need to point this out but this is NEVER town's reaction to me outing in the way that I did, ever.

Unless they're somehow a PR with a role that makes your claim unbelieveable?

Does this look like the legitimate response from town who thinks that I just claimed a major investigative role?

You didn't claim a major investigative role, you claimed a conveniently weak as fuck one, but yes, it does.

I don't want to deal with any more of this bullshit in this game so I am telling you to vote him and get out of my way. There are plenty of mislynches and I won't care if you're town.

So basically you don't care about genuine scumhunting and mislynches advance your wincon? OK, noted.

Like if anyone in this game actually thinks that someone who is claiming to scumread me reacts in this way then they are batshit crazy.

Don't be batshit crazy and vote this cheeky clown.

Nice AtE.

No, because the only reason that my case wouldn't get followed is because people would suspect I am scum. Scum will not be able to afford to keep me alive and that's going to be removed from consideration.
Keyser is this really the reason that you want to be lynched?

Scum will not be able to afford to keep you alive unless you conveniently mislynch all of Town for them and claim a barely effective role PM. Furthmore, nice AtE.

Nah you're going to get lynched because every single person in this game will realize that your reaction to my claim didn't come from town.
Your only focus after that claim was in defending yourself and trying to discredit me and act town. No concern about an outed cop claim, no calling me scum faking a claim.
You reek of scum motivation and you are going to die today.

The reaction came from town, so you are full of bullshit here. You're also talking backwards. Calling you a scum faking a claim is impossible for the same reason that, as you said later, counterclaiming wasn't going to happen, namely that you catered your claim to make it impossible. For Town's benefit, supposedly. Yeah, right.

Keyser would you stop coaching scum it's really unbecoming of you.

More AtE. Yum.

Oh no you weren't nightkilling me for anything that had happened up to that point. I'm getting nightkilled for what's to come.

Funny how that didn't happen. So like, am I also supposed to TR you because you're implying that scum want to kill you? If so, no.

And like: look into games like NY184 that I've played. Take away the amazing AtE and the PR hunting and the perfect choice of pushes and you're left with an aggressive guy throwing shit everywhere until it sticks. That's this guy. Like I knew that he was scum so soon because he's so much like how I was when I was new to playing scum.

But you don't have to go off any of that. His respond post claim literally claims scum over and over and over.

@Transcend i thought this Radiant Cowbells person was supposed to be good?

who lied to me. or are they just trolling rn?

Again: posturing. Do you really think that Town!gerryoat

APPEALS TO OTHER PEOPLE

to attempt to discredit me?
No. Town!Gerryoat the way he's playing would be FUCKING PISSED at me and you all know it. What he is now is scared and that's why he's appealing to other people.

You're accusing gerry of having a bad scumgame while subtly reminding everyone of how good your scumgame is. You're accusing gerry of being scum for appealing to other people while appealing to other people. Yes, we understand now how much more sophisticated your scumgame is, and thank you for scumclaiming for us while you were at it.

No. All Gerryoat is smart enough to figure out is to try to discredit me and stay alive for the day. That's so far from town motivated that it's laughable.

Flip this around to be about yourself and it actually fits, this time.

I read 1870 to death before this game for meta on other people. I know exactly what your scumgame is like.

M-hm.

Look if you genuinely want me to talk about how I knew you were scum then ask me in postgame because all I see right now is scum posturing.

So like, you can't really come up with any good reasons and are just posturing until your opponent gets fatigued or people sheep you because of reputation? Mkay.

I mean I already made several cases on why your play doesn't come from town. But I am pretty sure that I could have gotten you lynched with how scummy you are by just telling people to vote you.

Except your cases sucked. This is scum!RC knowing he's already won the fight, by the way, and pretending to not have to even try.

When I claimed cop or variant with cop in the name his immediate reaction was to start hard discrediting my slot. No indication that he was worried that town PR was outed, no worry that I might be scum. PURELY, SINGLE MINDEDLY interested in discrediting my slot to keep himself alive. Does anyone here think that town would act like that in response to that? Answer: no.

Was what actually happened that you provoked him into getting into a fight you knew you could win by reputation and bruteforce and then discredited him continually and pushed bs arguments down everyone's throats until they finally gave in to your monomania and joined your wagon? Answer: yes.

Oh and I have never seen a town player in a single game that I have played try this hard to discredit someone, regardless of any reads going around.

Why do you keep talking about yourself? It's unbecoming of you, RC.

I did it as a reaction test because being RC I do not expect to live the night anyway unless I get docced so I don't see a big problem with me being outed.
You can like it or not like it but I caught scum.

Don't like it, you didn't catch scum, your results suck, you smell like a scumlord, I hope you die.

I assume you're used to people backing down from you, but I don't back down. Which is why I think your ego took a hit. And you're trying to strong arm a lynch for someone scumreading you.

I'm not trying to do anything. You have basically already been lynched, it just hasn't quite happened yet.

Pontius Pilate: I wash my hands of this mess.

And you CLEARLY do that as scum so the best that you can do is say that you... also sit there discrediting your attackers as town? I mean I've never seen a town player discredit half as much as you and there's a reason on MS that discrediting is generally seen as extremely scummy but hey if you actually do that shit I'd love to see it.

You've spent the last like 40 posts before this point discrediting the first player to stand up to you over and over so remind my again why you aren't scum?

Conclusion #1:

RadiantCowbells and gerryoat aren't in the same scum faction.

No, I'm actually hard, hard, hard bussing his ass so if you wouldn't mind please help me with this sweet bus.

Sudden switch to mentioning bussing in this and 340 is a tonal scumtell to me, as if you're trying to up with a new angle to same shtick so that it doesn't seem like you're repeating yourself despite saying the same thing over and over.

If you want to argue that I might be scum, then saying that I'm blowing things out of proportion or defensive might make sense or have a purpose. But you aren't arguing that so ??? just discrediting.

Nice strawman. He actually was arguing that, and all you've been doing the whole time is discrediting.

I agree that we are unlikely to have multiple cops and I would be suspect of anyone else who claims one. But obviously if someone actually is another cop variant they should not 'counterclaim' since I will be dying tonight anyway. I would lean town except for the fact that you are still not voting gerry and it feels like you might be scum with him waiting to see how the rest of the game reacts before you commit a vote to him.

Good shading. Wait - you died last night?

See because I am NOT a fan of your interactions with Gerry. Feels very apt to be SvS. If you're not going to vote him then don't blame me if my last will is for you to be lynched tomorrow.

More AtE.

Oh and you know what else is cool? Scum!Gerryoat posts a fucking shit ton. Averages about 105 posts per game as scum.

As town? Far less invested. Between the games I've looked at it's 23, 50ish, and 74 posts per day phase. Contrast his LOWEST scum game had 80 posts per day and he went one super long stretch without posting in it.

Is this seriously what you're passing off as scumhunting?

Oh I'm sorry I forgot that

power role fucking radiantcowbells expecting to be docced

was selfish/anti-town play. Please forgive me your highness.

Oh, now I get it. You didn't really ever believe that you were going to die last night. Great alibi. Guess there's no way to bust it without mislynching all of Town to find the doc, huh? I guess you're a little disappointed that I turned out to just be a plain old vanilla then.

Keyser, I get the impression you disbelieve my claim. If you do, then just shut up about it and figure it out tonight with my flip. Kay?

Wait, so you DO believe you're going to die! Okay, okay, I've got it now. We're on the same page.

Oi dumbasses. Do you really think that if Gerryoat were town then absolutely no one would be interested in jumping on a hard pushed wagon and blaming me for it?

No one else is going to get lynched today so pull your heads out of your asses and vote him.

The AtE is strong in this one.

It's your scumbuddies trying to get him quicklynched to keep you alive. I mean I think it's shit play since you're all goign to be fucking obvious scum tomorrow but whatever floats your collective boat.

Nah there's a lot of dumb town there as well.

AtE & hedge. Obvious playbook is obvious.

Except I don't always deathtunnel the first person that I scumread on day 1. Great job buying into Gerryoat's shitty discrediting and teaching him that it's a viable playstyle.

The discrediting by accusing him of discrediting is getting kinda old tbh.

Ooh I have a countertheory. What if Gerry is just a scumfuck who called my vote on Rautherdir 'taking the game back to rvs' to discredit a vote on his scumbuddy like he discredits everything else that does't help him?

Your countertheory sucks scumballs.

Him calling my vote on Rautherdir and attempt to drag the game back to RVS seemed kinda chainsawy and didn't make much sense outside of that context and we all know how good my chainsaw reads are

Oh.

[quote="In post 510But like in general it's not what's there it's what's absent. There's not a single post that I can point to and see any scumhunting going on in his brain behind the wheels.
Just feels like a series of disconnected posts that don't, as far as I can tell, have a single town train of thought underlying them.

Funny, exactly how I feel about your posts.

VOTE: Vifam

Scumread that slot yesterday and that was an absolutely unacceptable quickhammer.

So why do you need to remind us that you scumread the slot yesterday? Typical scum reaction with a vote on an easy target, which you conveniently never push.

Notice me not retracting my claim?

I did not just claim what I did for lulz and I have nothing else to say about it right now.

I am bulletproof and I claimed what I did to bait nightkills. I claimed the way I did to minimize the odds of being counterclaimed and it worked. I am actually pretty good at that.
If you don't believe it coming from today note the point where I said that there was no doc in the setup. I said that for a reason.

Ohhhh I get it now. So you tunneled town and claimed a cop role while asking doctors to protect you in order to bait a NK that would be wasted because you're an unconfirmable PR role. Now I get it. It all makes sense and I definitely don't think you could've made any of that up as scum.

Because I think that getting you to calm the fuck down and leave me alone is more valuable than the slim chance that scum try to nightkill me twice.

If I bait 1 kill all I do is waste scums night and don't actually get us a mislynch.

The cop is dead there's no huge value to my role anymore.

Oh so THAT'S why you claimed BP. So now it's super obvious why you're not dead and even baiting a NK doesn't really get us anywhere actually so everything you did Day 1 just fucked Town over and nothing else. We're totally on the same page now, I promise.

I mean there's still value in wasting a nightkill. But if JJD is going to flip his shit at me I might as well come clean and try to get town on the same page.

Hope you're damned fucking sure on that TR, town!RC, cuz you gave up the opportunity to deathtunnel a PR with a fake guilty just here. Oh wait, second sentence was addressed to the actual scum!RC playing this game.

Hey you smurfs what are all of your Matt reads?

Good lynch shopping.

Hey matt what's your read on yourself?

Good recovery.

Well I disagree.

VOTE: MattBlackGuy

Even better recovery.

No matter how hard I try you're never satisfied.
This is not a home I think I'm better off alone.
You always disappear even when you're here.
This is not my home I think I'm better off alone.

You're on fire.

Why would I nightkill JarJar? There's an obvious nightkill in this day phase for RC!Scum and it's not JarJar.

Gee, I wonder who. Certainly not Vifam.

FTR the day 1 deathtunnel was because I was trying to act like investigative RC who got outed and expected to die and needed to lynch his target at all costs.

Oh please.

I don't even need to include Sheep who I'm having second thoughts about to have a confident pool of 6 town. Scum killed the cop but I think this is going to be a town sweep from this point on.

Scum (you) most certainly did kill the cop. Good attempt at shirking any responsibility, though.

I'm not sure if you've caught on yet JJD but I am absolutely sick and tired of wasting my time defending myself instead of lynching scum. If I can get you to fuck off it's worth it.

Lol. If by lynching scum you mean mislynching Transcend because.... I'm sorry, why, again? You don't like his playstyle? Or mislynching someone who refuses to extrapolate on their reads in great depth is easy? Sure, that makes sense.

VOTE: Rautherdir

If you were Town and genuinely scumhunting you would've recognized that this was newb!town like 5000 years ago.

I like this.

There's a really slick tell on Rautherdir that if he flips scum I am near 100% on who one of his partners is.

Gee, how promising. Is this like how when you had a cop variety role and were baiting NKs and it was going to be super great? Too bad neither of these claims are things you'd have to make good on, and everyone will conveniently forget that this was one of the baits you used to have him mislynched.

Yeah. one of many things I don't like from his slot.

But I want to sell my vote out to a lot of different wagons today because I'm not ready to settle down

So you're not even trying to pretend that you're not shopping for lynches anymore? Kay.

I promise you you sitting there and pushing one me makes me play a ridiculous amount worse.

And when you die, you'll not be playing at all! Nice AtE, btw, as always.

I mean it is AtE. It's also true.

No, there's no chance that I'm getting lynched today so please just leave me alone and let me focus on my stuff.

What stuff?

Transcend if you play like that I'm just going to lynch you.

Oh, right. That stuff. So your response to pressure is to push the lynch of one of the easiest targets on the playerlist. I get it. Good stuff.

This is PL until he replaces out or produces content.

Too bad the content wasn't what you were hoping for. Guess you'll have to policy me for finding you scummy if you can't find anything else that sticks, now.

JJD may actually be scum ftr.

Woah now. You're moving the super solid TR who you outed yourself as BP for and in so doing showed D1 to be a total scumfucking of Town to a scumlean? You must be totally surprised that he didn't stop pushing you after you claimed that BP role! Guess if he doesn't let up the only recourse is to move into the lynch pool. Good Town play, RC.

If you are town here do not join another game with me in it Transcend. This is not cool.

Someone hammer.

Likelihood of this coming from Town with like 8 days left in Day 2? No.

I am voting a slot that is refusing to contribute anything to the game and encouraged a quickhammer on town cop.

This is just desperate. First of all, Transcend has added more to this game than Akarin, matt, and Rauthedir, two of which you "suspect" as being scum, so your reasoning is bs. Second, you fucking started that shithole of a wagon and pushed gerryoat down a hill with a cliff at the bottom. Remember 326? Nah, I forgot all about it, too, and everything else that happened D1, so I'll blindly believe your self-serving version of what happened.


Hey look guys, RC has been full of shit from the start of his ISO to the end! Gee, I guess he must be Town![/spoiler][/quote]
Here's her replace in post.
Apparently she quoted like 50 billion things to 'reaction test' her top town read.
And she hasn't even asked me anything (so...am I another reaction test? She hasn't voted me, she hasn't questioned me, so...)
So, like, is her first replacement post just lying to town about her top two scum reads to test us all.
With reactions?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Wow - I don't even know what exploded on that one, and I apologize.
But, seriously, read that wall of ridiculousness and then tell me it's a reaction test.

I'm not sure what exploded either, or quite how to fix it.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@RC - I would be fine with a Little Uzi wagon, I don't particularly have a town or a scum read on him.

Why do you think it was obvious that Nancy never really intended to push you? Because if it was always a fake push - then by definition isn't the push exactly what she said it was, a push to make you invested?

[Cooperative Sheep]

This is just desperate. First of all, Transcend has added more to this game than Akarin, matt, and Rauthedir, two of which you "suspect" as being scum, so your reasoning is bs. Second, you fucking started that shithole of a wagon and pushed gerryoat down a hill with a cliff at the bottom. Remember 326? Nah, I forgot all about it, too, and everything else that happened D1, so I'll blindly believe your self-serving version of what happened

Sheep defending Transcend, while sheep is voting Transcend, from RC who is conftown

Read my next post - that's actually not my words, it's a messed up quote.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Other than that - I still like Jar for town, and Nancy for scum - the ten pages was mostly just rage repeating so went quicker than anticipated thanks to the powers of skim.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Matt I lean slight scum on, but it's based off a case Jar made on him and later decided was okay - but I didn't, so piece that into your tunnel as you will.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Grendel.

Incidentally - considering everything you quoted as a reason to scumread me was a Nancy quote - what's your take on Nancy again? Town, right? Why?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Hello all - sorry, lost internet connectivity for a few days.
Will properly catch up tomorrow, pinky swear!

Just reading this page, I have no interest in the Frog flip, just saying. Matt flip sounds okay, so does Grendel, but it sounds like everyone is claiming everything - valid thoughts will come Saturday.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Frogger - you have as your lynch pool Matt --> me if Matt flips scum, but Matt --> Keyser if Matt flips town. How does town Matt make me more town?

@Nancy - what goalposts did I move in scumreading you? That's BS.

@Keyser - literally almosthalf the posts I make include me stating my top scumspects, and other players are complaining that I'm vote parking - I think it is super clear who i want lynched at any given moment.

I think we should mass claim, quite frankly. I think this somuch I'm just going to start popcorning, and to hell with anyone who disagrees.

Claim: VT
Popcorn - Nancy

Unless anyone seriously has an issue with this considering the claims on the table, let's lock in.

I understand Frogg's issue with Matt's stated actions, but can see how Matt could do what he said he did as town - it's basically my reason the the abrupt massclaim demand, if we get no other PR claims then I think Matt is actually not a lynch I support today, if we get even one other then I'd vote park him until he was lynched.
I agree with whoever said Nancy felt like she was egging on Frogger/RC - the only thing I've liked about her slot posting is pointing out how the team du jour of me, Matt, Jar requires bad play - this is something I (duh) agree with, but I actually don't think there's a lot of evidence to support the stance, so find it iffy she's advancing it as an idea.
I agree with the case for Akarin town. I wouldn't help that lynch at all. I won't help lynch Frogg, that is dumb. I have my lynch pool as Grendel, LUV, and Nancy in no particular order I can describe.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Nancy already claimed VT

Then she should have no trouble confirming that claim and popcorning.

I won't help lynch Frogg, that is dumb.

Why is lynching me dumb?

Your concept that your lynch clears anyone is nonsensical in a world where people believe you bussed, if that was a bus, then who is going to legit claim that your other interactions are anything but scum theatre? Hence - it is dumb if you're town, because it clears nothing. If you claim scum I'll agree your lynch is a good idea.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Grendel - I don't see an issue with agreeing with your thoughts on Nancy unless I'm claiming you're both scum together - then there would be an issue.

@RC - not that I can see. If anything I think the argument is presuming he's town.

[Cooperative Sheep]

It looked like you were purposely leaving out how you agreed with me.

Because openly agreeing with a scum read could smudge your shiny ethos badge.

So you're saying my thought process was "Aw man, I simply *must* agreewith Grendel's lovely point, but I can't afford to have people notice that. i know, I'll call out Grendel in this post in a negative light while also agreeing with a point he made and hope he doesn't spot it and bring it up - never mind that I could just simply *not* say I liked the thought and be otherwise fine with everything I'm posting, but I'll try this awkward hide attempt for...no reason at all"

Yeah, I don't think that makes sense.
Shop it if you want.

Also, if you have us both in the same lynch pool then that would inply your were entertaining the thought right?

Sure. But it's hardly enough of an entertainment to automatically presume everything you say is a lie from scum and not worth being considered.

This massclaim is a farce. It's Gredndel/Sheep. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind. I'm on fone will be home in a few hours to post properly.

So farce along with it, claim and popcorn, and then you can powerlynch the obv. scums.

Mass-claim is a bad idea this early - we're still in control.

We'll likely lynch in the VT's anyway today.

Agreed - let's have the VTs all claim.
Like, seriously now, how many PRs do you think are left? I want that info on the table, it's of more help to town than scum at this point unless scum are in the currently claimed PRs - and a massclaim will help teach us that, so, again, more helpful to town.

What was awkward about the shift?

And the transfer was that I came to was that your push didn't feel like you cared well I was scum, or not. It was for the sake of winning an argument. Obviously I was thinking that your case is wroung, but I don't think that was something I specifically said?

I thought it was pretty OB that I was trying to find my words.

Even in your answer here you're claiming you were "trying to find words" so I would ask you what wasn't awkward with the shift? You kept changing your tune as I questioned you on your motivations - that's awkward at face value. You can argue that it was town motivated awkwardness, but it's silly to suggest it wasn't awkward.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@RC - I think what I already said about it, that we should massclaim, and until I get another PR claim i have no interest in lynching Matt today. He is the least towny of the claims, but that still leaves me a lot of preferable lynches before getting near him.

As someone who says they can read her, what do you think of Nancy's flailing around, reversing of reads, and hard wall response to the massclaim? It looks like scum who feels PR walls tightening in around her and her team to me, do you see that at all? Does the play otherwise fit into potential town Nancy play?

[Cooperative Sheep]

@RC - I see no actual issue with a JKer in the setup, though consider it the least elegant of the options.

Cop, Backup Cop, BP kind of works with no protective role needed.
JKer is...well, I can sorta buy it, because it's sorta a protective role that toys with things, but I also consider it on the beefy side (albeit without another scum flip that's a debatable assessment because it might be balanced...and also there was that push about how games on this site that people called 'balanced' were, in fact, scum sided, so...)

I think it works, but it's not a slam dunk to my mind, and as stated he would be my first lynch choice of all of you in a heartbeat, as a JKer/Cop/BP seems less likely to me than a Cop/JKer or a Backup/Cop/BP, which are really the only other possible combos due to the Rauth/you connection - plus it jives more with the reads I had prior to the claims,a nd it's good not to ignore those.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Frog - I don't think you understand my meta as much as you think you do, at the very least you have zero evidence that I don't do the so-called lack of pressure as town (also it was a BS case and there was no lack of follow up, so there's that )
Also, my "placating" of you might be more along the lines of me already openly stating I dislike you in other games (and wishing you had been honest to your blacklist claim) - so lack of interaction kinda makes sense.

@Grendel - I didn't think it was town because I find town to be more confused, and less suddenly changing of a read when called on it not making sense. Basically, I didn't believe you were so confused as to say A when you meant B, when B isn't exactly a complicated concept and has nothing to do with A. I think A was you claptrapping and discrediting me.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@LUV - you're the second person who said that to me and my answer still holds, how many unclaimed town PRs do you exactly fear us outing at this stage? A massclaim aids town - scum already have ample info regardless of if all the claims are true, and a massclaim helps town figure out if claims are false. If you're town I'm not sure how you (and...Keyser?) don't get this.

@RC - not much to flesh out, I don't find him particularly townish like so many others seem to (for reasons they don't really explain and that I don't get), and he's not active enough or responsive enough (nor do I have the time availability) to particularly push for tells in a way I would find telling. I'd lynch him before a bulk of the game, but I'd lynch him after Nancy or Grendel because I can actually describe a case on them beyond 'meh, he might be scum'. I'd lynch him after Matt if Matt was counterclaimed (depending on counterclaim source - if it was Nancy or Grendel, natch). I think anyone who says bmore about him is using meta and/or deluding themselves on the viability of info available.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Nice to see the mass claim. In other news, I was right, in *other* other news, Frog is still daft enough to think I'm scum somehow.

Vote: MattBlackGuy

I don't care if this is an accidental lulz hammer.
Maybe it's L-1 though, per mod's soft count.
We'll find out eventually.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Thus, did LUV=town PR make you realise MGB=scum?

I had already, and repeatedly, commented on my scum opinion on MGB, you even quoted me doing so.
What the claim did was take a very mild scumread, pop him into the PR pool, and make me go 'clearly at least one scum is in this pool'.
I then voted my strongest scumread from that pool.
The PR pool is 4 (or 3 if you're a claimed PR)
The VT pool is 5 (or 6 if you're a claimed VT)
I'm willing to wager any amount you care to that we have one scum in each pool - I can do math. What's your boggle exactly?

[Cooperative Sheep]

What's your boggle exactly?

In short:

You must really love/trust LUV's PR claim, to put him as

least-likely-to-be-scum

over MGB, Grendel and Nancy. Correct?

You're inventing a stance that I haven't made.

You seem to imply that I have to have town -> scum reads on a single scale.
Meanwhile I have presented that I am operating on a theory of two scum, one each in two different groups - therefore I have a scum read that looks like this of my top 4 presented scum reads;

Scummiest Group VT
Nancy
Grendel
Towniest Group VT

Scummiest Group PR
Matt
Uzi
Towniest Group PR

There is, presuming I am right on my two pools theory, and I feel very confident that I am, a higher percentage chance of my scum picks from the PR group to be correct than for my picks from the VT group.

I voted accordingly.
Does my stance make sense now?

[Cooperative Sheep]

The problem is that scum can opt to no kill and leave us in the same position we're in now.

That is also information though.

Of course the reverse argument is we could lynch now, and also get the info from a scum kill/no kill.

[Cooperative Sheep]

The more I look at LUV's claim the more it feels like town to me also - really derptastic choice if he was scum in that situation.
I don't think he's derptastic.
I might actually put him as more town than Rauth in the PR claims, and I generally town read Rauth.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Yeah, I'm going with that, I think Rauth is the most suspect PR after Matt.

But there's like a friggin' football field or five between them on the scale of my reads.

[Cooperative Sheep]

[Cooperative Sheep]

Are you giving up scum or giving up town?
Keyser is being aggressive, but he's asking generally pointed, clear, and reasonable questions.

If you are just kind of going 'meh, I'mma for the noose no matter what' (which I kinda agree that you are) could you at least, if town, toss out some last reads/thoughts and, if scum, fake some for WIFOM giggles?

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Nancy - do you actually townread Matt? Like, you think he's a mislynch? Or are you simply suggesting we should avoid lynching him because he's a claimed PR?

[Cooperative Sheep]

I can think of at least 2 situations where Matt could be scum and not objectively caught via kill actions.
If we flip his partner it helps.
But if you're 95% sure on matt, why are you trigger shy and attacking some other slot that most people think is a town read, and for whom the current case you've made is...it's scummy to say that 5 PRs contain scum (something you also seem to believe, and something I believe also, and you're not calling me out over it at the moment).

[Cooperative Sheep]

He's even doing it to "bus" the PR you think is scum, so...?

[Cooperative Sheep]

something you also seem to believe, and something I believe also, and you're not calling me out over it at the moment

Frog, get in here quick, check outmy known scum meta

[Cooperative Sheep]

I'm not trigger shy there's just no reason to risk being wrong just because of ego-related reasons. ThinkBig came in and tried to take out LUV. If ThinkBig flips scum, LUV is cleared and the last scum is in mbg/Rauth. And I'm not going to say any more because doing so would be anti-town, just go through it on your own and imagine possible scenarios, even if we get nothing from results tomorrow there will be a kill that will further solidify the situation for us.

How much scumspicion do you have towards LUV that you'd like to lynch a slot to try to clear him somewhat? (also, i don't even think ThinkBig's push on him was that hard, so even if I suspected both I wouldn't see it as beyond very mild scum theatre, but that's kind of beside the core point - I'm mostly just dinging that to suggest your logic is even more tenuous).

But, seriously - LUV, big scum concern of yours?

[Cooperative Sheep]

So now ThinkBig is my partner, and not Matt's - am I the 5%?

If you have little suspicion of LUV's slot, why not lynch, y'know, not a slot to clear LUV.

For me Akarian was the player that towned the slot up. It's not a super read, but it's stronger town than others still alive.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Actually, maybe as a more relevant and less just generic attacking commentary - if a scum ThinkBig would clear LUV for you how come a scum JarJar doesn't clear ThinkBig for you?

[Cooperative Sheep]

How does JJD being scum clear ThinkBig..?

For basically the same reasons that scum ThinkBig clears LUV in your mind - ThinkBig, when Akarian, attacked JarJar.
And if that's a bus, then why couldn't ThinkBig/LUV be a bus?

[Cooperative Sheep]

I think Nancy is right.

MBG+TB

Then vote MBG, more of us see that wagon, whilst some people actively townread TB.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Also, functionally, Nancy and Frog are, by playing with a counter wagon.
I only have one of them as a scum read

[Cooperative Sheep]

Sheep I literally have no words.

You don't find potential hypocrisy in suggesting someone is scum for pushing off the MBG wagon and then trying to start a wagon on that player (which pushes off the MBG wagon) while all the evidence for your second case *requires* MBG to be scum?
Because I have issues with that - words or no.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Welcome back Pine.

Yes, Sheep, I am pushing a counterwagon off one member of my proposed scumteam onto another member. You got me.

I'm not claiming hypocrisy in your theory scumteam, I'm claiming it in relation to your vote, and also attacking someone for doing something that you're also doing.

[Cooperative Sheep]

ThinkBig.

[Cooperative Sheep]

ThinkPetite

[Cooperative Sheep]

Grendel is my current pick for scum-in-VTs.

What made him worse/Nancy better in your mind?

Sheep keeps citing hypocritical behavior like is a scum tell.

I'm not so inclined to believe that. Much more likely that Sheep is pushing out those kinds of arguments b/c they look like insightful observations.

Because I think it is - if you think something is what scum do, and is a valid tell to find scum, then *by definition* you think it is not something town should do (or you are using really bad logic in your scum tells). That makes it a valid scum tell.

I also "keep" citing it exactly twice, and only once strongly. All repetitions are based on people asking me about it.
Nancy also dismissed my case on her as us 'reading a different game' and then claimed she didn't even understand what hypocrisy I saw - that's not how you sort people.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Sheep I literally have no words.

You don't find potential hypocrisy in suggesting someone is scum for pushing off the MBG wagon and then trying to start a wagon on that player (which pushes off the MBG wagon) while all the evidence for your second case *requires* MBG to be scum?
Because I have issues with that - words or no.

And this is my case of hypocrisy that is too difficult for her to understand.
Seems pretty direct and explained, really.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Cop, Backup Cop, and Jailkeeper are all powerful town PRs.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Cop is like the definition of a powerful town PR.
And a Backup is the definition of second chances with a very powerful PR.

[Cooperative Sheep]

It starts as a roleblocker/Doc and later becomes a roleblocking/Doc/Cop.
Pretty sure that's not weak - but then again you're selling Cop w. Backup Cop as weak, so...
I'll agree that within this setup it does appear set up to benefit scum more than town.
But I'm voting MBG.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Probably I'm just so confused I don't know what's happening in the game again, and Cops are weak town PRs and so are JKers.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I agree that with 5 town PRs that scum has a statistically higher chance of killing a PR - but that's about all you're saying that I agree with, and I rather disagree that it qualifies as a balance.

[Cooperative Sheep]

WHO THE FUCK LYNCHES A COP CLAIM D1 >_>

That implies there was a claim received.
There wasn't.

[Cooperative Sheep]

So can anyone remind me why they're voting for mbg? The NK doesn't make any fucking sense with mbg as scum. This isn't difficult to understand. If you're so intent on lynching a PR then lynch Rauth.

For Rauth to be scum he has to be scum who was so panicked that he called RC obv. town he could only use the fakeclaim as an excuse and didn't consider going with a 'I believe him for now' sort of answer that would have been a casual deflection without putting a timeline on his life as scum.
For him to be town he basically claimed at a silly point.
There is no way I'm supportive of lynching there - I want him to offer fake reads or real results for a few nights or for scum to kill him, either way is good.
He is objectively one of the very least optimal lynches today barring knowing for absolute fact he is scum (and that applies to everyone equally).

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Nancy - do you honestly mean to tell me that you couldn't, as scum, come up with a way to offer almost no information to town? Even if we presume every PR is town, that then means scum have something cool (safe bet is at *least* a roleblocker and 2 goons...) and with that combo, again, they can pretty easily provide no info to town.

And, the "info" they'll provide, if it exists, is most likely flipping an assured town PR.
At least by lynching a scummy claim we have a chance that it isn't a town PR, where scum kills don't.

I don't get why this is such a hangup for you.

I'll agree there isn't confirmed scum in Rauth/mbg, but I would say I think there's a really high chance for one.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I think it's funny people think Rautherdir was just letting his inno get lynched and that he didn't immediately townread a cop claim.

He did nothing but call you town all of Day 2 though, yeah?
Sure, maybe he should have argued better, but he didn't call you scum or vote you or support the wagon or anything, so...?

[Cooperative Sheep]

That would certainly be an amusing role, but only really of use with a town rolecop unless he became a backup rolecop, so I don't think it's really likely.

I'll agree with you that he didn't play the situation as well as he should have.
Are you saying he did so intentionally? Because otherwise all you're doing is voting him for being a less optimal player than you'd like - and that's not a clear scum case.
Also, with that as a situation, if he's clever enough to fake the tell (and be bullied into revealing by town pressure?) he's playing a reasonably skilled bluff, and I don't find that likely.

PEdit - don't even really recall, I think it was just a one off comment near the start of this day phase, not a lengthy discussion.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I very strongly favor the MBG lynch and am arguing with you to try to keep your vote on that wagon, and thereby keep the motion and attention on that wagon and not the Rauth one.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Pedit - new page, ignore me!

Again, I've already gone over this. Read the damn thread lol. If they have a RB they block 1 PR and kill the other. Yes, there is a good chance of scum in the PRs. No, lynching in PRs is not a good way to PoE whether or not this is the case. Not when we can force scum to PoE for us while we take out a scumspect in VTs.

So basically your big hope, with an admittance that one of the PRs might be scum, or scum have to be very powerful, is that scum will help PoE the PRs for you by killing one.

I don't think they even need to - but let's say they kill one - would you want to lynch in the PRs then?
And, if that's true - are you claiming you have zero town reads in the PRs? What if they kill that PR - isn't that a meaningless death at that stage?
That's what I don't get, I don't think it PoEs anything more than what we already have, and even if it does, I'm fine lynching then too.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Rauth tomorrow doesn't help town when there are 7 VT claims and only one mislynch remaining.

With one dead scum, and you saying Rauth is scum, I'm pretty sure 7 VT claims have a few more chances than 1 to catch scum.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I'm pretty "meh" on the whole reaction test page - don't really believe anyone was fooled, Matt looks mildly good for the 4-5 minute timing, but on the flip side if Nancy is scum it's less impressive and I still kinda buy that. I get nothing really.

@Matt - why do you think Rauth is scum? I know RC is selling their Rauth/Matt theory - but do you also believe it for some reason? I find it not particularly telling as a theory, why wouldn't you suspect LUV?

[Cooperative Sheep]

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

Makes two of us - I was stating that I don't get how/why you're saying we only have one mislynch left. How do we only have one mislynch left?

lol I guess you haven't been reading any of my posts. Not surprised really. I did say I was suspicious of LUV before, and I was even voting him earlier. Rauth hasn't done anything all of day 3. That's why I kept pressuring him to get some reads out there. I don't think he actually reread through the game like he said he did. His reread post was just stupidly bad, and he doesn't even say he thinks Frogger is scum. I don't think Town!Rauth makes that kind of post at this point of the game. I know he's still kinda newbie, but that doesn't mean he's that bad.

Are you basing this on experience with town Rauth, or just a presumption of what town Rauth would do?

[Cooperative Sheep]

My reaction to Rauth this last page was a lot more negative, specifically because he committed my personal pet lie tell of providing a silly amount of details to a story that didn't need them. But before you go 'then why no vote move!?!' my reply is 'I also don't like MBG's one mislynch commentary' because that also reads iffy to me, and maintains his scum lead.
I think it's safe to say that no scum targeted Rauth with a kill.
It is not safe to say that they didn't target RC.

I guess my point is, it is absolutely safe to say that *either* Rauth and MBG have one scum in them *or* we have 5 town PRs.
Besides Nancy I see no one arguing the second.
So why is this lynch so painful? We should just flip one, either we're heroes, or we get scum tomorrow.
I'd trade a PR for a scum any day of the week outside of lylo.
It's not lylo as far as I'm aware, though maybe MBG and his indeterminate sized scum team has a different opinion.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I feel like if I were playing this game a year ago I'd know exactly what to do but I don't and it feels really terrible.

I hit my high point of confidence about 1-2 years into playing the game, the more you play the more you tend to self bury in wifom in my experience.
For me the Rauth question really boils down to 'does he strike me as scum clever enough to fake the result and hope town bullies him about it' and to that my answer is 'no'.
At that stage the only sane move is to vote MBG, who, as much as people are bemoaning the tepid Rauth input for the day, isn't exactly exceeding that standard much himself, while being objectively a more seasoned and capable player to do exactly that. Which, again, speaks to my vote.
I may be derping, but the logic feels sound.

[Cooperative Sheep]

If he's scum, we lynch Cooperative Sheep and continue from there

Wouldn't be Nancy or Frogger, that's about the only insight I have from the VTs for that connection.

I'd also offer as my counterpoint to your 3 investigative stance the thought that it's not three concurrent investigatives, one is weaksauce, and that town lacks protective ability on their investigatives unless Rauth is telling the truth.

BP plus Backup = soft Doc makes sense to me.
I'll accept the point that JKer plus BP does about the same with more negative utility.
I still don't think Rauth decided to fake Cop on Day 2, that's a limited return scum investment, especially going and confirming a BP town while doing so, which is even more annoying to scum considering the heat you had on you, and lack of awareness of any tracking/watching possibilities.

I welcome your "jail"

[Cooperative Sheep]

I mean, if I'm wrong, Rauth is basically playing terribly for his scum team, is the point.
MBG can be playing fine for his though, y'know.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Whichever one of them is scum has played shitty and we can both agree on that, no?

I would say MBG only actually started doing it after being run up, while every claim and plan Rauth has done is anti-scum, but beyond that I'll agree neither is winning it for their team.

Okay, let's think about a universe where Rautherdir is role cop. Does the entire situation make more sense?

Sure - just as much as where MBG is Jailkeeper or roleblocker claiming JK.
The point is the actions - do you think Rauth is a rolecop, who double checked your BP Night 1, decided to fake being a Backup Cop after the Cop flip (which sounds like he'd need a partner clever enough to suggest Backup as a fake, and also dumb enough to suggest COp as a good scum fakeclaim considering it is a lynch delay-er, not a lynch avoider), crumbed it via actions, got pressured over the crumbs, claimed under less than powerful suspicion, and then decided to submit the kill sans knowing about track-type tech.

Or is MBG scum who went with the classic JK claim as RBer (or just is a scum JKer) and claimed under rather more pressure after blatant targeting the Cop with a "JK" even though the cop was *not* a general town read by anyone.

One requires less squinting for me, why are they equal (or Rauth sided) for you?

Just going to say this now because I don't know if the day will end before I get a chance to post again. I'm jailing Sheep tonight, so if I die tonight then he's not scum.

No, the correct move is to jail RC. Gin targets in VTs for a townfirm if there is a NK.

No, the correct move is to MD and JK in the VTs on a Rauth scum flip.

My situation with you Coop is you tried to push a Rauth TR on me from super early on the game and it still doesn't make any sense to me at this point. You've been justifying all the scummy shit he's done as 'oh hes a newb'.

If, as you suspect, Rautherdir will flip town: I will almost certainly never touch you again.

Describe the actual "scummy shit" he's done.
Because I bet it sums up as 'weak reads, confusion, and meh' which is also how one describes newbies - so...yes, I can see it as newbie.

Oh, wow, if Rauth is town, I'm obv. town, duh
In other amazing news, town should lynch scum to win in this game, and scum should kill town. Why are you stating emptiness to me rather than discussing my actual points and thoughts, I'm being very clear and open with them, and you're not returning the favor.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Weren't you the one suggesting a VT kill and letting the night solve the game itself? Sounds like a pretty big turnaround.

She did run into a brick wall wherein no one agreed with her VT lynch plan at all - why does her then giving up on it qualify as a big turnaround?

[Cooperative Sheep]

In a scummy way?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Both Frogger and RC have bounced around a bit also - I'm pretty sure all three of them aren't scum, so...?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Well played then

[Cooperative Sheep]

It's pages like the last few that make me weep for the metagame.

[Cooperative Sheep]

It's pages like the last few that make me weep for the metagame.

scum reaction

You are so brilliant at reading me that it boggles the mind and almost looks like you can't read me at all.

[Cooperative Sheep]

The situation just makes so much fucking sense when sheep is scum though because his confusion at the lack of a CC is so palpable

[Cooperative Sheep]

Why would I suspect a CC to a buddy fakeclaiming backup cop with a dead cop exactly?

[Cooperative Sheep]

It's pages like the last few that make me weep for the metagame.

scum reaction

You are so brilliant at reading me that it boggles the mind and almost looks like you can't read me at all.

I fucking nailed you in that other game

I agree that you were accurate there.
You are so inaccurate here and using the same tell logic though, that it proves to me (and will eventually to you) that you actually can't read me for shit.
So trumpet it up, then prepare to justify later. I'll be here.

[Cooperative Sheep]

You make me smirk.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I'm scum reading you based off your interactions with Jar and MBG

What interactions are telling to you, exactly? I want to hear this logic so I can mock it properly.

And here is your laughable tell meta of me;
viewtopic.php?p=8896055#p8896055

[Cooperative Sheep]

The VCA part of your case is silly, I think the only part that makes sense is the defense I had of Jar, but then you're too dense to notice that Jar was buddying me, not the other way around. So there's that, but you like to scream rather than listen, so la-di-da.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Vote: LUV

[Cooperative Sheep]

Vote: Gin

too

[Cooperative Sheep]

I don't know why we haven't flipped Gin yet - the JKer has called his shot, so...?

[Cooperative Sheep]

There is nothing Grendel is going to say or do to change who we're lynching today, and I see no info we are obligated to get his input on either.
But, sure, we can drag it out because 'we need to hear from everybody' I suppose.
I'll be here. Waiting for the brilliant info we'll gain.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I actually am losing track of the number of contradictions in RC's play even just this Day phase.
He should clean those thoughts up.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I actually am losing track of the number of contradictions in RC's play even just this Day phase.
He should clean those thoughts up.

Hi coopsheep,

How are you doing?

I'm voting an assured scum flip within two lynches and wondering why it isn't hammered yet.
How are you doing?

[Cooperative Sheep]

Unvote please. No point in rushing the day.

Yes, yes there is - we have scum in two, let's do that and then scumhunt with more info later.
If you have no reads on someone, I can understand extending this day, otherwise you're just shooting town in the emotional face and bogging down the game for no reason.

[Cooperative Sheep]

The bogging down is because you're not actually pursuing relevant info, we're just circle jerking till we do the obvious lynch we're going to do. SO let's do that.

It is silly to suggest I'm obv. town and a valid JK target tonight either I'm not obv. town or I am, and if I am I'm not a good target (especially on a scum Gin flip). If I'm not obv. town then I am a very good target. You shoudl be able to pick one.

If Gin flips scum I'd personally love to have you jailed for that theory confirmation, it would relieve me of so many issues with your slot's play.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Yeah Sheep is scum.

See, now it's valid to suggest I should get jailed on a Gin scum flip.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I mostly had fun this game.
Definitely just a middling performance though thanks to my Jar read.