Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Fro99er]

I still think people should stop giving people the benefit of the doubt (namely beeboy)

I'm not, but when you unvoted beeboy that basically killed that.

[Fro99er]

I'm just more confident in Yuri!scum than beeboy scum.

[Akane and Nebby]

I'm just more confident in Yuri!scum than beeboy scum.

Echo

-Nebby

[The DEO]

VOTE: Yuri

As much as I want to be stubborn and contrarian I'm town reading everyone on the wagon to at least some degree and Yuri does have some real problems.

I still think people should stop giving people the benefit of the doubt (namely beeboy)

It's really weird to me that so many people spoke out against my beeboy push either by saying I was pushing a counter wagon to scum or saying my meta reasons don't hold. Beeboy still has a lot wrong with his play and even if you just disagree with my reasons, nothing he has done so far looks town.

This is a real emotion I can relate to. I've been there. I've been the policy lynch target for this. I've initiated the policy lynches, as Math will tell you.

Thank you.

[Fro99er]

And I get you're the other way around, but we can regroup on that tomorrow.

[The DEO]

I'm just more confident in Yuri!scum than beeboy scum.

Echo

-Nebby

Baaah, scum get flocked.

[Akane and Nebby]

That was my stance on the Beeboy wagon around the time my own wagon was starting up.
Hell, the way I responded when Frogger asked me to join the Beeboy wagon way way back was "I have bigger fish to fry."

-Nebby

[The DEO]

That was my stance on the Beeboy wagon around the time my own wagon was starting up.
Hell, the way I responded when Frogger asked me to join the Beeboy wagon way way back was "I have bigger fish to fry."

-Nebby

Don't rub salt in the wound.

Do you have any direct questions for Math and I for our day end gamestate hydra wall?

[Spiffeh]

And on some dimension the issues I have with beeboy are hard to articulate and more in my gut than anything else.

I feel like he's just going through the motions. He notices that I'm pushing a wagon hardcore and hops in the thread to say some town-sounding things and leaves again. There's no level of engagement with town reads or effort to convince people like Titus or myself or anyone else that A&N is scum. In my experience town!beeboy is all over his scum reads and makes an effort to get his town reads to see what he's saying.

Maybe that's outdated meta but it doesn't sit right with me and nothing he's contributed so far makes me think that's the case.

[Akane and Nebby]

Titus if I think of some I'll shoot em at chu two.

-Nebby

[Fro99er]

And on some dimension the issues I have with beeboy are hard to articulate and more in my gut than anything else.

I feel like he's just going through the motions. He notices that I'm pushing a wagon hardcore and hops in the thread to say some town-sounding things and leaves again. There's no level of engagement with town reads or effort to convince people like Titus or myself or anyone else that A&N is scum. In my experience town!beeboy is all over his scum reads and makes an effort to get his town reads to see what he's saying.

Maybe that's outdated meta but it doesn't sit right with me and nothing he's contributed so far makes me think that's the case.

I think the most telling thing is both beastboy and yuri have responded to "you're not scumhunting pressure" immediately with attempting to scumhunt, but with really weak pushes.

[The DEO]

And on some dimension the issues I have with beeboy are hard to articulate and more in my gut than anything else.

I feel like he's just going through the motions. He notices that I'm pushing a wagon hardcore and hops in the thread to say some town-sounding things and leaves again. There's no level of engagement with town reads or effort to convince people like Titus or myself or anyone else that A&N is scum. In my experience town!beeboy is all over his scum reads and makes an effort to get his town reads to see what he's saying.

Maybe that's outdated meta but it doesn't sit right with me and nothing he's contributed so far makes me think that's the case.

Correct. Apply that to the vote counts and that I asked Nero and ABR (biggest supporters of that wagon) to explain their reads on the gamestate as a whole, and got radio silence/deflection, what do you get?

[Spiffeh]

Wrong. An unkillable IC is a huge gain for a one shot cop role.

Town plus town

It forces scum to either a)kill the treestump freeing the cop or b) kill the stonehenge and leave an unkillable IC.

Town cop, scum pyramids

The comments of the pyramids yield a lot and if scum pyramids is not Drixx, we basically clear Drixx.

Either setup scum gooned themselves for wifom and could get wrecked on balance.

Scum henge

Scum have to confirm the treestump, or confirm a living player. Neither setup is good. Doubly so if they derp and confirm Zeus.

I think a wasted scum kill + a cop result on someone else is more valuable than an IC who can post but is still dead. Especially since if the game isn't multiball and the treestump is nk'd it's safe to assume they are town. And a scum!treestump trying to manipulate us is really not something I'm concerned about since scum will try to avoid dying anyway and I think a scum!treestump would be easy to see through.

[The DEO]

And on some dimension the issues I have with beeboy are hard to articulate and more in my gut than anything else.

I feel like he's just going through the motions. He notices that I'm pushing a wagon hardcore and hops in the thread to say some town-sounding things and leaves again. There's no level of engagement with town reads or effort to convince people like Titus or myself or anyone else that A&N is scum. In my experience town!beeboy is all over his scum reads and makes an effort to get his town reads to see what he's saying.

Maybe that's outdated meta but it doesn't sit right with me and nothing he's contributed so far makes me think that's the case.

I think the most telling thing is both beastboy and yuri have responded to "you're not scumhunting pressure" immediately with attempting to scumhunt, but with really weak pushes.

This is kinda meh to me. The more of the Uzi/me dichotomy on Yuri and their defensive posture of others I found more telling. When they've been the major wagon, they've made efforts to associate themselves with every other major wagon in someway shape or form.

I'm not even really disputing Spiffeh's meta point, but playstyles partially change based on the scenario presented. I'm not too strong in a mountainous setup, but I'm better when we have mechanics than form an anchor. I'd naturally have a different meta in both types of setups as they require different skill types. For most players, this is a mountainous setup, as everyone is currently a VT. Yet, that's not true from my perspective as I latch onto mechanics moreso than the role I actually have.

[The DEO]

Wrong. An unkillable IC is a huge gain for a one shot cop role.

Town plus town

It forces scum to either a)kill the treestump freeing the cop or b) kill the stonehenge and leave an unkillable IC.

Town cop, scum pyramids

The comments of the pyramids yield a lot and if scum pyramids is not Drixx, we basically clear Drixx.

Either setup scum gooned themselves for wifom and could get wrecked on balance.

Scum henge

Scum have to confirm the treestump, or confirm a living player. Neither setup is good. Doubly so if they derp and confirm Zeus.

I think a wasted scum kill + a cop result on someone else is more valuable than an IC who can post but is still dead. Especially since if the game isn't multiball and the treestump is nk'd it's safe to assume they are town. And a scum!treestump trying to manipulate us is really not something I'm concerned about since scum will try to avoid dying anyway and I think a scum!treestump would be easy to see through.

I'm going to have to compare this to The Thing mafia and your UT stance tonight.

[Fro99er]

This is kinda meh to me. The more of the Uzi/me dichotomy on Yuri and their defensive posture of others I found more telling.

yeah, I mean Yuri is just scummy in general.

[Spiffeh]

A treestump is good in the right hands. I was a strong advocate for Tammy to get it in The Thing because having her around the whole game would have kept me grounded and I recognized that.

Not only is there not a "Tammy" in this game, it's different here because we have to expend more resources (Stonehenge) to get the dead treestump confirmed, where I think that role could be better utilized to clear someone who is a question mark or if we're lucky clear someone later in the game when there are less places for scum to hide.

[The DEO]

Read ABR's ISO and tell me that's not something you want to lynch tomorrow Frogger.

His ISO basically reads like The DEO/Drixx opposition disorder.

[The DEO]

A treestump is good in the right hands. I was a strong advocate for Tammy to get it in The Thing because having her around the whole game would have kept me grounded and I recognized that.

Not only is there not a "Tammy" in this game, it's different here because we have to expend more resources (Stonehenge) to get the dead treestump confirmed, where I think that role could be better utilized to clear someone who is a question mark or if we're lucky clear someone later in the game when there are less places for scum to hide.

Drixx is my Tammy.

[Spiffeh]

Yeah well I don't really feel the same way (no offense to Drixx intended).

[The DEO]

Yeah well I don't really feel the same way (no offense to Drixx intended).

You process the game in a different way. Tammy processes the game in that way. You both deal more in emotions rather than hard data (please don't take that as an insult as I think you're fine with data to. Not saying you're illogical). Drixx and I tend to deal with mafia as more of a chess match. One sides pieces versus the other, yet we don't always know who is against whom. That's part of the reason Drixx cannot keep me alive as scum, but he almost has to at the same time if we use my plan. He likely already knows most everything I'll be putting in my gamestate wall. I'm more worried when Drixx and I don't synergize. It means we likely aren't looking at the same information or I'm off on a tangent.

[Spiffeh]

Those inquiring after the health of my good and righteous Co-Emperor need not worry, He is well. Julius, occasionally and crudely called Aeronaut by irreverent fools, has elected to remain secluded and permit Me to take the lead in treating with this uncouth assemblage for now. Though the palace couriers have been bringing the minutes of the Senate's proceedings to His chamber door, they tell Me that they appear unopened. Worry not, for My Divine Wisdom is all you require to prosper. Julius will make an appearance on His schedule, not at the whim of His lessers.

I am literally going to assume you are scum until Aeronaut towns it up and proves me otherwise

[Spiffeh]

Like Spiffy was going hard for Bee and basically was screaming for everyone to join him and end the day early and now he wants us to take our foot off the gas.

Lol this is just blatantly untrue

Yes I wanted people to look at what I was seeing and wagon in him

That doesn't mean I wanted the day to end early

[Spiffeh]

Why is notice not voting alongside us if he's so certain im bussing Yuri here?

X

[Siblings Quarrel]

Read ABR's ISO and tell me that's not something you want to lynch tomorrow Frogger.

His ISO basically reads like The DEO/Drixx opposition disorder.

I always want to lynch ABR

I agree though, and that read of A+N is shallow af