Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Terata]

VOTE: ChaosOmega

Something about this vote feels off.

Can you put your finger on what?

I agreed with the vote, FWIW

I think him calling it scripted is what's bugging me. It doesn't read that way to me.

But i explained exactly why i thought so. You don't think i believe what im saying or is it just the specific word scripted you don't think fits. I see scripted as a synonym to made up, which is what mafia's posts are when they're trying to "solve"

[Fro99er]

Fro99er is being force replaced.

Lol

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: ChaosOmega

Something about this vote feels off.

Can you put your finger on what?

I agreed with the vote, FWIW

I think him calling it scripted is what's bugging me. It doesn't read that way to me.

But i explained exactly why i thought so. You don't think i believe what im saying or is it just the specific word scripted you don't think fits. I see scripted as a synonym to made up, which is what mafia's posts are when they're trying to "solve"

Yeah I don't see what you're seeing.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Fro99er is being force replaced.

R.I.P.

[Fro99er]

Haha. I'm pretty sure Fire is joking

[Terata]

Sheep is so obvious opportunistic scum it hurts.

It would help lots if you expanded on why. You're answering stuff that doesn't matter as much about ur own gameplay instead of flushing out your reads. Noone is gonna listen to your reads if they don't know the reasoning

It's fairly simple really. He's using every little opportunity he can to jump on a wagon now or in the future and seed plant by discrediting.

It starts off quite early with his 18 where he takes Lowell's RVS vote as him being hard to work with as town because the wagon on WS was slightly larger.

Doesn't even consider that me and Lowell may have played with each other outside of this game and his vote was a means of saying hi. Just assumes that Lowell will be hard to cooperate with. I also don't like this assumption because it implies not only he should be trusted but the people on the wagon should've been as well.

His 33 where he essentially calls Frog's argument about the intent of his questions towards Lowell trivial with his avatar retort.

In his 113, he discredits Naomi's null read on him by calling it white knighting. If you all go back and read the post of Naomi's he linked, she isn't defending him, she's questioning Gerry based on what she thinks Sheep meant and how Sheep reacted to the accusation. Naomi is not coming to his aid here, she's inquiring whether or not Gerry and Hawk are joking about the basis of their push on Sheep.

He says he wants to talk with Frog I'm assuming to clarify whatever issues he's still having him but rather than giving him the chance to hear him, he immediately casts a vote for Frog in 158. Strongly points to me like he already thinks Frog is scum and is just going to continue to provoke him in order to unnecessarily justify his vote.

223 he just jumps on the Hawk wagon after it's clear he's not really null or town reading Frog or even AJ.

thanks!

i think the reasoning is pretty towny toom especially the bolded part connected to your own feelings that you felt at the time he mentioned it.

[Terata]

Also looking for contradictions/unexplained progressions more than i'd like. I think that's sometimes a mafia trait too

how do you tell the difference between a Red or Green motive when dealing with that?

It's all depending on circumstances. It's the amount of the posting like that compared to the amount of them solving in other ways. It's what has happend apart from that in the game that influences when it's reasonable to talk more about meta. It's how much the meta seems to matter in the read itself and how helpful the meta seems to be. It's what kind of playstyle the one doing it has (which ofc i can't take into account as much). It's also a lot of gutread from my part. ANd loads of stuff i can't even think of right now.

[WhemeStar]

In reply to chaos question about me, yes I still think they are both town.

[Firebringer]

PenguinPower is being Prodded.
Fro99er has been forced back into the game against his will.

[Terata]

Also looking for contradictions/unexplained progressions more than i'd like. I think that's sometimes a mafia trait too

how do you tell the difference between a Red or Green motive when dealing with that?

It's all depending on circumstances. It's the amount of the posting like that compared to the amount of them solving in other ways. It's what has happend apart from that in the game that influences when it's reasonable to talk more about meta. It's how much the meta seems to matter in the read itself and how helpful the meta seems to be. It's what kind of playstyle the one doing it has (which ofc i can't take into account as much). It's also a lot of gutread from my part. ANd loads of stuff i can't even think of right now.

i don't even know why you're asking such general questions when a more specific one would help you much more.

[WhemeStar]

Groggy failed Fire as the prince of our story

[Terata]

Wheme, you said early you liked Frog for overblowing the "weak" (as you called it) push on Sheep and searching for reactions. Did your read on Frogg change anything when you got to know Frogg's push was geniune and not simply a push for reactions. As you said he's still a townread i would assume no? so did he do something else you liked or did it still deserve a townread from you for pushing something you called "weak"?

[Terata]

Also, i have no idea if Wheme's biggest contribution to the game being to tell people to help the flavour means he's scum or too careless to be scum

[Terata]

Fire gimme a medal for solving the game already, thanks.

i THINK this is towny, but it might be NAI if he's good with tone, so small points here. Rest of the ISO is baaaaaad (i know you got it) tho

[Naomi-Tan]

Bleh that return did just what I said I was giving him Green cred for. losing his position in my mind now.

Huh? Who is this referring to?

Frog

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hawk

Blank votes can go die in a fire. Explain your vote on hawk in 25 words or more.

Didn't I already explain it in previous posts? Me explaining the vote would be the same thing I've said in the first couple pages

Yes but i'm not doing leg work. its hard enough to work out everyones alignment without digging back a couple pages to your last post to get your reasoning for voting someone. blank votes can still go die

[WhemeStar]

I think hawk jumped on the sheep wagon which was a weak slip, him and others jumped on it which makes me suspect them a little bit, which one town wants to lynch? Idc, saw people voting hawk, so I voted himself too because he is also suspicious to me

[WhemeStar]

FFS forgot to quote

[Naomi-Tan]

Also looking for contradictions/unexplained progressions more than i'd like. I think that's sometimes a mafia trait too

how do you tell the difference between a Red or Green motive when dealing with that?

It's all depending on circumstances. It's the amount of the posting like that compared to the amount of them solving in other ways. It's what has happend apart from that in the game that influences when it's reasonable to talk more about meta. It's how much the meta seems to matter in the read itself and how helpful the meta seems to be. It's what kind of playstyle the one doing it has (which ofc i can't take into account as much). It's also a lot of gutread from my part. ANd loads of stuff i can't even think of right now.

i don't even know why you're asking such general questions when a more specific one would help you much more.

It was me picking at your theory in case it didn't hold up.

[Naomi-Tan]

FFS forgot to quote

Its cool I got it.

[Terata]

Also looking for contradictions/unexplained progressions more than i'd like. I think that's sometimes a mafia trait too

how do you tell the difference between a Red or Green motive when dealing with that?

It's all depending on circumstances. It's the amount of the posting like that compared to the amount of them solving in other ways. It's what has happend apart from that in the game that influences when it's reasonable to talk more about meta. It's how much the meta seems to matter in the read itself and how helpful the meta seems to be. It's what kind of playstyle the one doing it has (which ofc i can't take into account as much). It's also a lot of gutread from my part. ANd loads of stuff i can't even think of right now.

i don't even know why you're asking such general questions when a more specific one would help you much more.

It was me picking at your theory in case it didn't hold up.

and this is me picking at your question: did it? and why/why not? what expect would you have expected from a scum without a theory?

[Naomi-Tan]

and this is me picking at your question: did it? and why/why not? what expect would you have expected from a scum without a theory?

It did. I didn't really know what I would of found. I guess I just like poking things and seeing what comes of it. you never know if someone will make a mistake. or bait someone else into picking up a line of thought. I dunno really I just ask questions of things to see what happen.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Sheep is flailing and using buzzwords to death maybe because they're new? (white Knight, misrep, etc.)

Like a lot of the recent attacks on me (it's basically now universal town concsensus to claim I have no logic at all - all without actually explaining the hole(s?) in my logic) this attack isn't really containing anything.

Let's say I hadn't used the "buzzwords" but instead had described out the tells that the buzzwords mean - how does that affect my townishness or scumminess. All a "buzzword" does is serve as shorthand to explain a complicated concept quickly. You're actually saying nothing about me in this comment.

The difference between placing someone at L-4 and L-2 is huge... you realize that yes? It'd also a naked vote. I at least voted under the premise of believing the slip (which I don't really disregard it's more an after thought at this point)

I consider blind sheeping of a vote (presuming others agree with my use of this buzzword) to be no better than a naked vote - and it's not like you exactly unvoted after it if you had an issue with L-2.

In fact you waited about 24 hours, for the wagon to lose momentum, before you realized you had an issue with his vote. That looks suspect to me.

I thought it was but after a reread I don't trust Gerry and his recent posts make me think he's scum. Just because you agree with someone doesn't mean you think they're town. I know people won't follow me on to him because Sheep is basically telling himself but that's fine. We can get Gerry tomorrow or even now to put me at ease if the rest of you are town reading him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sheep

How can Gerry and I both be scum? Is your theory he just decided to bus me off a slip early to distance or something?
Later people will explain how I lack logic.

In post 119, Naomi-Tan wrote:
Okay so.. Let me ask you a simple question; Was your post in question a joke or other wise non-serious post that is NAI?

It was a serious question asked in a mocking way

, if he hadn't answered it would have been very serious - I leave it to you to classify that in your own joke range.

OMFG just answer the damn question >_< flipping sheep! jesus your grinding my gears. 'Im not gonna answer any question put to me properly' is really irritating attitude. I asked a simple question and you straight up didn't give an answer. It was a Yes no question not a thing to be all coy with GAfraagasj gbisav >_<

I'm bolding where I answered the question.
If mocking = joke to you then, yes, it was a joke. If mocking = not a joke, then no, it wasn't a joke.
Mocking is my answer - you decide if that's a joke or not. I don't consider mocking a joke, because a joke has a punchline - but I do consider mocking to be humor, so it all depends on what you meant, not what I decide you meant. You have a clear answer.

The world doesn't revolve around you

And if your green that means red might be pushing you

And people may be looking for those opportunist pushes

I agree.
It also means scum might be WKing - and as the only large wagon at the time to analyze (and not needing a flip) it's a good wagon for me to analyze.

The leap in logic was about lack of cooperation - I explained why it makes sense to me. It has nothing to do about whether he may or may not have eventually been okay voting there - AND I NEVER SAID IT DID.

Cooperation =/= Sheeping.

Sheeping can equal cooperation though.
Also his answer was vague, and by stating what *I thought he meant* and then asking him *do you mean that?* I allow him to expand on his thought.
It's like if I say "Naomi is scum!" just because I make an assumption that may or may not be correct does not preclude you from being able to offer your thoughts on the situation to clarify it.

Or you can just keep calling an opinion you disagree with insane logic - because that's awfully pleasant.

[Naomi-Tan]

You guys see this. This right here. Not dealing with it. fuck it. not worth the hassle.

[Terata]

sheeping isn't cooperation tho. the "COOP"-part implies there's TWO parties COOPERATING back and forth. 1 sheeping another isn't cooperation if you're not adding anything (i guess you're technically adding to the situation that you agree with what was said initally, but that isn't an effective way of cooperating anyway).

Tip to sheep: When you've written up a post, take out all the quotes you can, and shorten it down to like 1 paragraph of Summary for others to read. Will help a lot

[ECMitchell]

Didn't I already explain it in previous posts? Me explaining the vote would be the same thing I've said in the first couple pages

VOTE: WhemeStar

Here are all your posts from the first few pages:

Hi everyone.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I don't like it either.

RVS is great!

Your information is out of date, go back to post #9

unless your post is a lie about mine being a lie, which makes you a liar, and we should lynch all liars.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

Nope!

Hope you get better soon!

I don't like him as a rapper.

Yah go fro99er you rock!

I think we got the joke when you said "baaaaaaaaaad"

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

They're* sorry on phone

I think the push on sheep is weak, and frog made it seem like it was strong to get reactions out of everyone

What about lil Uzi then?

Uzi came in, sheeped a vote on sheep, which put him at L-2, didn't say anything, and then asked someone else to join the wagon. Which would put sheep at L-1. #Post 52 BTW. So yes, I do have a reason to think he is suspicious. If you want to talk about the other two people, their complaining about a slip, without a slip being there, a good scum won't slip, but scum would make it seem like people made a slip.

Fire gimme a medal for solving the game already, thanks.

Lil Uzi, I have no problem with them, but its okay to be suspicious of the people who put them at L-2, wouldn't you be suspicious of someone hammering a wagon? Where's the cutoff point on the wagon. I thought it generated good discussion too, froggy got the reactions from people that he wanted.

It wasn't until Post 56, when you had a vote placed against you, that you really offered up anything substantial. That post, however, is the only one I can find that even remotely links your suspicion to Hawk, and you have yet to elaborate on it at all, despite joining in with others on the Hawk vote and despite explicitly being asked to clarify your reasoning in Post 241. Anything you can add to expound on your suspicion would be helpful.