Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Cooperative Sheep]

Aw man, that's good stuff.

[Fro99er]

Frogger, I'm reading Cooperative sheep as scum if Hawk isn't

I can buy this.

I also think this makes AJ town. AJ helps change the tide to Hawk, which would normally be a ping if Sheep is scum. But AJ is more experienced than that, especially directing this at me when we've played together before.

A scum AJ wouldn't want to be tied to a scum Sheep, knowing I'd push the shit out of AJ if sheep was scum.

[Fro99er]

So you agree that you misrepped/misunderstood me?

I already said I misunderstood you. Why do you keep pushing this? It is seriously petty.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I want to make sure the people citing me for being nitpicky understand that you and I both agree you said some things that may (by accident) have not been the truth and which may have caused me to have some issues with you. I do not get the feeling anyone besides me and you have noticed this.

[Fro99er]

You continue to push the misrep and lie angle, when I pointed out I simply misread. Misreading is different from intentionally misrepping or lying.

You need to make a case on me that doesn't involve me not reading, thinking I misrepped, or thinking I lied.

So you agree that you misrepped/misunderstood me?
But your case doesn't change?
Okay.

Vote: Hawk

Would also do Lowell, but I'll sheep AJ for the moment.
I actually think Frogger's defense is bad enough I'm reading it as town - the point being if he doesn't see the hypocrisy, it's not scum hypocrisy whether it exists or not.

VOTE: Sheep

this is so gross. Conveniently start to townread me when I have my doubts, despite still discrediting me with those first three lines in the quote, and then jump on the Hawk wagon with me.

No.

[Cooperative Sheep]

How can I discredit you if I'm agreeing with what you said happened?

[Fro99er]

I can see why he'd think if I intentionally misrepped why I'd be scum.

Now you're just being an asshole

[Fro99er]

Breathe frog, breathe.

This is a game.

I apologize sheep.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hawk

[WhemeStar]

We should really start following the mods requests

[Hawk]

So I got what like 4 votes on me now? Give me a bit I'll catch up and post thoughts since apparently playing it back is horribly scummy says 3 people and ignores half the other games players who are in similar positions just have posted even less than I have.

Also I'm not being lynched today. So please just give me till later to catch up. I have like 4 ongoing games and Have fallen behind in all of theme except one because Ive been sick IRL so spare me a moment here -_-;

[gerryoat]

sheep vs frog vs hawk. who will win

[WhemeStar]

Ill start our story, Froggy is the frog prince, who has to kiss the princess ( sheep) in order to transform into a prince. This is why Froggy has been tunneling sheep all game. To get closer to sheep and become one with each other.

In answer to mods question, Sheep is the princess.

[Terata]

don't put too much weight into reads connected to flips we don't know. i have a feeling people on this site generally overdo that kinda thing.

[Hawk]

Okay I'm at work right now but I get off in an hour. Today you guys have added 5 pages of content that has put me here.

Frog is town
Sheep is flailing and using buzzwords to death maybe because they're new? (white Knight, misrep, etc.)
Terata looks town from his interaction with Sheep and I was equally as confused reading through Sheep's posts involving why he would get town cred for WKing and some outstanding circular logic by sheep.
AJ is town trying to interject some line of thought into a chaos of fluff since for 5 pages it feels like Sheep and frog have had the same exact fucking arguement. Also all this happened today. jeesus guys.
I like ECM for his entrance but it really doesn't ping me one way or the other.
Naomi is fine not pinging me one way or the other I can understand her logic on her reads and while I appreciate the effort it's NAI.

Here in a minute I'll go through and quote and answer some questions I know we're asked of me so give me a second I'm doing this from mobile.

After that I'd like to point out all the problems I have with sheep and frogs argument that's spanned all day today and added 5 pages of fluff.

[Terata]

Okay I'm at work right now but I get off in an hour. Today you guys have added 5 pages of content that has put me here.

Frog is town
Sheep is flailing and using buzzwords to death maybe because they're new? (white Knight, misrep, etc.)
Terata looks town from his interaction with Sheep and I was equally as confused reading through Sheep's posts involving why he would get town cred for WKing and some outstanding circular logic by sheep.
AJ is town trying to interject some line of thought into a chaos of fluff since for 5 pages it feels like Sheep and frog have had the same exact fucking arguement. Also all this happened today. jeesus guys.

I like ECM for his entrance but it really doesn't ping me one way or the other.

Naomi is fine not pinging me one way or the other I can understand her logic on her reads and while I appreciate the effort it's NAI.

Here in a minute I'll go through and quote and answer some questions I know we're asked of me so give me a second I'm doing this from mobile.

After that I'd like to point out all the problems I have with sheep and frogs argument that's spanned all day today and added 5 pages of fluff.

you like him but you don't lean either way? which one is it

[ECMitchell]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hawk

Can you explain to me why Fro99er's successful pressure on Cooperative Sheep makes you suspect of Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoat? Your post you self-quoted is the only mention of that suspicion I can find, but I'm still not quite understanding. Honestly, I'd expect you to still be on Lil Uzi, considering your list.

[Hawk]

Do you not link early wagons? I think it's getting nice content from Sheep. And generating discussion.

What nice content do you think it's getting from me? Mostly I've just been asking questions back.

Your post in 53 In response showcases enough content for me that you like to make assumptions and then ignore those assumptions when people question them. You later do this even further with your ever devolving argument with Frog.

In post 53 you entirely ignore the fact that you make the assumption that Lowell will answer one way as you phrase the questions in such a manner that the first is rhetorical. You don't wait for a response like Frog says and you also don't see a problem from making assumptions that automatically paint someone in a negative light. Then not only that you continue to ask questions regarding your assumption as true rather than consider you made an assumption and your logic is flawed!

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

Why not give your thoughts?

Speaking of - I'd like you to respond to my questions.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8812488

Where/are you that confident that Sheep is scum??? Don't you think L-2 this early is dangerous? I mean I understand pressure but that was playing with a bit of fire there Uzi.

You opted to play with a fire, and so did Uzi - what makes his fire the bigger and more dangerous one really?

The difference between placing someone at L-4 and L-2 is huge... you realize that yes? It'd also a naked vote. I at least voted under the premise of believing the slip (which I don't really disregard it's more an after thought at this point)

Pedit:
Forgive me if I'm slow to respond to all these I'm trying to take my time.
@Terata I liked his entrance but it doesn't currently ping me as town or scum is that not hard to understand? Basically Null??

[Terata]

liked = towny in my book. You had fun reading it, so that's what you're gonna mean when you say you like something. noted..

[Hawk]

liked = towny in my book. You had fun reading it, so that's what you're gonna mean when you say you like something. noted..

Okay okay yes liked is usually a town associative word for me thats why I clarified with doesn't ping me one way or the other. I guess my use of like here means even if it's just subconscious I lean him more town than scum but still very null. Like I said I'm at work just now getting off forgive me I'm trying to do this from mobile lol

[Terata]

liked = towny in my book. You had fun reading it, so that's what you're gonna mean when you say you like something. noted..

Okay okay yes liked is usually a town associative word for me thats why I clarified with doesn't ping me one way or the other. I guess my use of like here means even if it's just subconscious I lean him more town than scum but still very null. Like I said I'm at work just now getting off forgive me I'm trying to do this from mobile lol

towny response

[Hawk]

---

Hawk: Do you currently have a scumread of Sheep?

At the time I was leaning him yespecially. Now yeah pretty much since all his posts till now have been the definition of insanity.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Naomi and Terata probably aren't scum.

I agree here. Thanks for answering my question. I may have been hopped up on cold meds last night but I didn't think the case on sheep was that strong so I didn't mind switching my vote to get some response and shake up some people.

Tho personally I don't see what's so scummy as jumping off a wagon and onto another to get some engagement and conversation. It's d1. And early too. I want lots of people talking today not just tunnel on sheep :/

Also why Gerry? If you thought Sheep's slip was something substantial wouldn't that mean you're inclined to town read Gerry since he was implying that Gerry is town?

Pedit: ^ What Fro99er said. Though Im still only partially sold on it being a legit slip. I can easily see this as being a misnomer. Sheep's reaction to the whole thing seems pretty indifferent he's not trying to hard to deny it as a slip more so just saying it's silly to think of it as a slip.

I thought it was but after a reread I don't trust Gerry and his recent posts make me think he's scum. Just because you agree with someone doesn't mean you think they're town. I know people won't follow me on to him because Sheep is basically telling himself but that's fine. We can get Gerry tomorrow or even now to put me at ease if the rest of you are town reading him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sheep

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Bleh that return did just what I said I was giving him Green cred for. losing his position in my mind now.

Huh? Who is this referring to?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

ECMitchell, Tarata can I interest you in this wonderful investment called 'avatars'? They're never out of style.

@Lowell - So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

Have you played with LuV before? Asking for a friend.

Can I ask if there's any reason you said that? Or if its just you're curiosity as why my vote is on him

Freedom of speech dictates you can ask whatever you want.

The reason is two-fold. First, my understanding of RVS is standard etiquette is to help push wagons early for reactions. This is how you get out of RVS, someone does something funny-looking (i.e. what sheep did). Secondly, specific to Uzi, he's generally lynchbait so I was interested if you knew this coming in. Pushing Uzi right from the start is a really easy scum read and a super easy way to look productive on someone who doesn't necessarily reflect pressure well.

Okay so.. Let me ask you a simple question; Was your post in question a joke or other wise non-serious post that is NAI?

It was a serious question asked in a mocking way, if he hadn't answered it would have been very serious - I leave it to you to classify that in your own joke range.

Btw Sheep, if I for example Whiteknighted you as scum, what would i gain in then instantly swapping you to a scum lean a bit later after i resisted the wagon? doesn't that kinda negate the pocketing the whiteknighting as scum could've possibly gained?

You swapped me after the pressure on me was relieved, which makes sense in a scum concept of hoping the lynch goes through and you look good for being 'right' and shifting me to a lynch option for later also plays to that potential scum play.

No.

I don't play this "answer my questions game." If you think that makes me scum for it IDGAF. I don't sit here and do what people tell me to do. That's not how I play so get off your damn high horse with this "I'd like you to do this" bullcrap.

You've already shown me you'll give absurd logic with that avatar retort. I'm not going to go around in circles with you. It helps nobody.

Could you at least address the point where I called you a misrepper/liar for how you changed up what Lowell said and then attacked me over my reaction to something that wasn't said?

Because I'd love to talk about that.

Vote: Frogger

Okay, my current scumreads don't exactly include you but this jump at the end is fucking atrocious. You go from 'let's talk' to voting frogger, who you claim to want to have a discussion with. You're so incredibly nitpicky especially in latter pages about what frogger said and not about what frogger's DONE. Because you attacking doesn't really solve anything Frogger had pushed for the last couple of pages.

While we're at it, Hawk is scum. He's sidelining as hell waiting for Frogger to push this lynch through for him. Not sure scumpartners but I think Lowell could be a second.

VOTE: Hawk

Frogger, I'm reading Cooperative sheep as scum if Hawk isn't, but this shit looks like heavy flailing. Other than this:

I generally like Naomi's entrance.
I also am okay with Terata.
That said I would tend to expect one scum amongst Terata, Naomi, and Chaos - just due to not having a town read on him and having one on the other two, I'll call it as Chaos.
I agree with people that are not a fan of Uzi's vote, but find it odd that some of these same people aren't citing Lowell.

There's really nothing outside a supposed 'slip' to call scum. And he's also picking up good reads otherwise (lowell/hawk).

I haven't been lynch bait since like my 4th game on this site.