Mafia 72: Peril in Panama - Game over!

[pete d]

Ahoyhoy. Rereading.

[pete d]

Alright

minor FoS: ckd

. I think he was opportunistic in jumping on BM, don't like post 185.
I was considering FoSing Nekka for lack of meaningful content, but then I saw he's planning to come to a decision soon, so I'll leave that for now.
Some of Jordan's first few posts were a bit scummy, mostly his overreaction towards DP in #2 (I'm searching posts by user here), but he seemed better later on.
If non-contributers are still hanging around (richman, Kakeng, and to a lesser extent mandalorian) you should post like now. From mandalorian's few posts I get a townish vibe, Kakeng hasn't said much but the no lynch vote is bad.
BM, DP, MoS all seem ok to me from a skim read, ABR and Gage claimed masons iirc.
So now I'll get around to looking at Unright and Porochaz a bit closer, didn't get much from them on first read.

[pete d]

oh yeah

unvote

[pete d]

what about BM seems ok to you?

He hasn't really done anything to make me think he's scummy. Although, post 271 seems a trifle convenient.

vote: Nekka-Lucifer

. That last post seemed off, if I'm reading it right he is saying that he'd vote BM because he didn't finish his PBPA? It's another nothing post.

[pete d]

How 'bout you go back and read abit. Only then will you find out that I was about to vote him but I wanted to see his PBPA he told us about.

(shrug) Those posts are really ambiguous.

unvote

.

[pete d]

stand on the fence with BM. His previous actions and bandwagon and -1 etc made we want a vote on him but not a lynch, but then I wanted his re-read and, due to him posting me as 'probably' pro-town as apposed to everyone thinking I'm scum in every single game, I like him.

So...

Ehh. I'll wait for his PBPA to finish and then make a partial desicion.

I smell a jester coming from BM which is incredibally ironic. *Looks to see where my vote lies*
Ehh

I believe you have only analysed 6 people. This is a reminder. Next time will be a vote.

Your position on BM was confusing and ambiguous. You clarified this after I voted you. I unvoted.

minor FoS: Nekka

, that last post seemed like an overreaction and trying to throw some suspicion my way.

Rereading over BM's posts, he does seem a little scummy. the early votes on Jordan and Unright seemed a bit exaggerated eg "blatant scum", "latched onto someone elses argument completely", later pulls out some WIFOM

Jordan i wouldn't mind if you want to explain to the rest of the players why BM-scum would want to repeatedly vote a claimed mason, in a blatantly scummy fashion, when they are clearly not going to be lynched. I can see why you might see my play as frustratingly idiotic, but i can't see how you can see my play as something a Mafia Member would do...

I don't see why the Gage votes wouldn't be just as indicative of forgetful scum as forgetful town.

sort of FoS: BM

.

[pete d]

Dragon Phoenix: His "selfvote=scum, we must lynch them" tactic at the start was stupid, and pretty scummy as well, selfvote is a complete nulltell IMO, I really didn't like how he said "I'd be happy to see one of the self-voters swing at the end of the day". Neither do I like how he kept reinterating the point.

Post 90 wasn't too great IMO either, way too many people in the scum catagory.

I don't think these points are really valid. The "selfvote=scum, we must lynch them" seems like a bit of an exaggeration, imo he was just saying for early day 1 it was scummy behaviour. As for listing "too many people", the real issue is whether or not his arguments for putting them there were valid.

[pete d]

Has BM finished his analysis' yet?

The answer is obviously no. There is no reason to ask this question.

vote: Nekka

[pete d]

pete d's first post seemed suspiciously indecisive in terms of votes/FOS's, one minor FOS after reading 10 and a half pages seems woefully lacking to me.

Yeah, I'm finding it hard to get a strong read on anyone at the moment. Nobody has done anything extremely scummy yet, I think a minor FoS was appropriate in the situation

In his next post, he voted Nekka for the post I highlighted as scummy in the above analysis (the one where he threatened BM with a vote). Seems alright, until I got to

pete d wrote:
It's another nothing post.

I don't agree with this point at all, Nekka has contributed a decent amount to the game IMO, saying he hasn't feels like you're streching for reasons to back up your vote.

Read over Nekka's posts. I maintain that while Nekka has posted a fair bit, he hasn't really given much helpful contributions or suspicions (except for BM)

In his next post, he FOS's Nekka and BM (taking the middle road in their argument), only they're not FOS's, they are "Minor FOS"'s and "Sort of FOS"'s. What's wrong with a simple FOS, or are you worried that you might get into an argument that results in votes on you and you being put in centre stage (i.e: Something that scums fear).

Not really, like I said, I'm not getting a real strong read from anyone at the moment

And finally, why is Nekka asking whether BM has finished his analysis yet worthy of a vote at all?

It felt to me like he was trying to throw suspicion on BM. He didn't directly ask BM, he asked everyone, so it felt like a loaded question. Also, I had previously put on an FoS with reasons.

If it makes you feel better, I'd vote for CKD or Nekka atm, with BM one level down if you understand what I'm saying.

[pete d]

Not really, he might just be asking how far BM is into his analysis. It definatly isn't worthy of a vote IMO.

Also, I had previously put on an FoS with reasons.

^ reasons which you agree with btw

This backing down and trying to appease me does not look good for you pete.

It's not backing down, I just clarified my position. It was completely consistant with my previous posts.

[pete d]

278- pete d votes nekka for being useless [townish]

If I'm reading this right, my attidute towards nekka makes you think I'm townish... So what is your opinion on nekka?

He is forming opinions about who he would vote for, but most of his arguments seem rather ambivalent. Everything he discusses he describes as that it "seems" a certain way, rather than actually being scummy. For ambivalence, 60%

Can't see how any of this equals scumminess.

[pete d]

Majorly scummy? Not at all. FoS-worthy? Not at all. The point is that it is rather ambivalent and that strikes me as note-worthy. Currently, my biggest issues are with those who are posting very little content, of which you are not one.

Fair enough.

[pete d]

Let's get a bandwagon rolling.

QFT

unvote, vote: BattleMage

[pete d]

Don't get put off Gage, if you want to play then keep posting.

[pete d]

Really don't like pete d seemingly jumping on reasons to vote people without clear reasons (maybe I'm missing his point).

"people"? More like "Nekka". If you look at Nekka's posts, he pretty much active-lurked all game (he posted a reasonable amount, but nothing of substance).

[pete d]

Ah. Well, apparently nobody else wanted to vote Nekka, and I'm not so sure about ckd anymore. Regardless, something needed to happen, the game was dragging, so I joined the BM wagon in preference to the Jordan wagon.

[pete d]

I wont survive the night if im telling the truth.

Not necessarily

Jordan, Streeflo, Unright, where the heck are you guys

[pete d]

I dont understand why people (Gage, pete d, Albert B. Rampage) re still voting for our claim doc..any reason why those voting for him want to do the mafia work for them?

Why are you assuming that mafia will automatically take him out? When I was scum and there was a suspicious claimed doc, we left them alive for day 2 to screw with everyone (but they got vigged anyhow).

but I would be more inclined to lynch him tomorrow to see if mafia bags him tonight.

With statements like this, why would mafia get rid of BM if he was a doc?

[pete d]

Post 453 was a direct response to ckd's fallacious argument. Granted, I didn't actually answer his question.

Ah. Well, apparently nobody else wanted to vote Nekka, and I'm not so sure about ckd anymore. Regardless, something needed to happen, the game was dragging, so I joined the BM wagon in preference to the Jordan wagon.

The reasons I based my vote off were: his WIFOM post, the early exaggerations (these points I already brought up); also working from my Nekka suspicions, I disagreed with his conclusions on Nekka being "probably protown", and Nekka was seemingly reluctant to vote BM. bookitty wagoned BM later, but this could easily have been bussing, and the unvote seemed to agree with this possibility.

Unvote, Vote: Gage btw. Giving up scumtell, and licence to lurk, rolled into one.

This post didn't strike me well, it seemed a bit wagonny.

So there it is. As for the doc claim, I don't think it warranted an unvote (eg if he claimed cop I would have unvoted straight away).

unvote, vote: bookitty

. The bookitty wagon makes me happy.

The reason I didn't vote for pete d was that I didn't have time to do a thorough reread. I wanted HIM to answer for his post, something he STILL has not done, and is unlikely to do since you're answering for him.

Or maybe I just haven't been on as much lately.

That said, I think what Pete D didnt say could be viewed as scummy. I said I didnt understand why people are still voting the claim doc...instead of answering me (like you blatantly did ABR) he came back with this response...

Fair enough, however I had previously addressed this

[pete d]

Also, look at who easily slipped onto this wagon without much comment or previous justification.

You mean me right? You're serious? I was the person who was most convinced Nekka was scum.

Not that I think it makes much difference at this point, but I'm going to point out that pete d never did answer my question, though he's posted since. I suspect he didn't feel the need to, since ABR answered so aggressively on his behalf.

Why would you suggest the scum-strategy you employed in a previous game if you're town, pete d?

If this is the question you were talking about... the reason I didn't directly answer it is because it is a stupid and/or loaded question. I was not suggesting a scum strategy. I was refuting a faulty argument. I don't see anything wrong with stating that.

but due to his lack of explanation and trailing of ABR's vote, I'm going to unvote; vote pete d

This is obviously bull. I made my suspicion of Nekka clear.

confirm vote: bookitty

GUYS, WE NEED TWO VOTES ON BOOKITTY NOW. ANYONE WHO LETS THE DEADLINE PASS WITHOUT VOTING WILL DIE a horrible death in my imagination. Setael, that includes you. ESPECIALLY you. No-lynch is the worse possible outcome for the town and you all know it.

QFT

[pete d]

Call WIFOM all you want, it doesn't make sense for scum to blatantly defend and refuse to join the wagon of a scum buddy who's going down in flames.

vote: porochaz

No contradiction there.

vote: curiouskarmadog

and

FoS: Setael

, ckd's behaviour around the bookitty wagon was scummalicious. He didn't commit to anything, tried to switch pressure onto me, indirectly defended bookitty, then put on a late wagon vote once it was beyond doubt.

I guess I dont understand why mafia would leave a doctor alive. Now, we could all go into a long discussion about this but I would rather not give the mafia any more reason to act, or not to act.

In reference to Bookitty, I agree with her theory, but I dont think PeteD was scummy for saying it. That said, I think what Pete D didnt say could be viewed as scummy. I said I didnt understand why people are still voting the claim doc...instead of answering me (like you blatantly did ABR) he came back with this response:

"Why are you assuming that mafia will automatically take him out?" "With statements like this, why would mafia get rid of BM if he was a doc?"

this doesnt sounds like someone who thinks BM is scum. So again, I dont understand the vote or the prespective.

I might have voted Pete D, but Bookkitty's response was..strange...I think Pete D response was scummy for different reasons, and I dont understand why she thinks it was scummy and it seemed forced...

so I am at a loss.

thoughts?

Well if ABR wants it, I cant handle all the peer pressure.

vote bookitty, actually I think your alignment will tell us a lot (looking at pete d)

I offer you...the HAMMER!!!!

Both of these posts are really scummy.

[pete d]

vote: Porochaz

Didn't vote for bookitty nor ckd.

[pete d]

First off, I have a notion that pete d is scum. His play towards bookitty is odd, as is hers towards him. He attacks her, but in a softly softly style. He successfully identified two scum, but was very cautious about them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was one of the first people to seriously go after Nekka, which I did as soon as I replaced in. I was the third vote on the bookitty wagon, and voted ckd early on day 2 when I could just as easily have gone with Setael.

Bookitty also lists him as a suspect, but only when she's going down does she focus on him.

You may also note that her reasons were complete BS. This says nothing about my alignment. (btw, what about bookitty saying 'oh yeah and btw I think Unright is scum too I see it now' (not an exact quote) late day 1?)

[pete d]

Alright.

unvote, vote: vollkan

[]===

[pete d]

vote: Porochaz

[pete d]

unvote

need to reread to decide between Lowell and farside

[pete d]

vote: Lowell

His first big analysis brushed over ckd and Nekka, his vote on bookitty was late and bussy, day 2 he refrained from voting ckd and gave two players (setael1, who was town, and porochaz, who is assumed town for now) as his major suspicions.

[pete d]

@Setael: I just got bluehosted with a long reply, so here's a summary: I accept that some of my posts look a bit strange. I was unsure of my suspicions, but I was surest of Nekka. Nevertheless, I put serious votes on Nekka / boo and ckd. The revote on Nekka was because that post reinforced that he wasn't saying anything. Notice that I jumped on the bookitty wagon as soon as it got some support iirc, I didn't hesitate. I chose ckd over Setael. As for DP, the only arguments made against him have been "too townie". He was on the boo and ckd wagons, and also put some early suspicions on ckd and Nekka. As for my vote on vollkan, in hindsight it was probably a mistake, but I did have reasons, I just didn't say anything because I was the hammer. Note that Lowell (and Porochaz) also joined with pretty weak reasons.

A lot of your argument against me is subjective. I'd ask that you do the same analysis to Lowell what you have done to farside and I.

[pete d]

I'm not really seeing the case against me, TBH. Anyone want to make it make more sense?

His first big analysis brushed over ckd and Nekka, his vote on bookitty was late and bussy, day 2 he refrained from voting ckd and gave two players (setael1, who was town, and porochaz, who is assumed town for now) as his major suspicions.

vote: Nekka-Lucifer. That last post seemed off, if I'm reading it right he is saying that he'd vote BM because he didn't finish his PBPA? It's another nothing post.

I unvoted because Nekka clarified the post I thought was scummy / confusing.

[pete d]

btw, I don't really mind whether it's farside or Lowell that gets lynched. I can see what DP is saying about the Unright thing, that exchange early in the game was strange. farside is throwing out the WIFOM ("if i was scum I wouldn't have killed Albert because I wanted to gloat").

[pete d]

FoS: BM

Post moar, scumbag

QFT

I don't really buy DP scum. Actually, though, I'm not sure I can read DP yet: hence why I've asked MoS' opinion, who has been heree longer and has presumably played more with him.

Somehow I don't think MoS is going help much

[pete d]

If there is only one then I would say pete_d put himself in the best position as looking town for voting against the scum as well as DP.

This argument is a bad one and has some WIFOM in it. I'm just as likely (or even more likely perhaps) to actually BE town if I'm "looking town". Same with DP. Out of the 'four suspects' left, DP and I both wagoned scum early and put a bit of pressure / focus on them at other times. Lowell didn't really mention either scum in his analysis, was late on the bookitty wagon, and chose Setael over ckd iirc. Unright / farside wasn't around during the bookitty saga, but farside wagoned ckd, before hopping to setael and finally back to ckd.

And if I have indeed put myself in such a good position, why am I being run up?

[pete d]

So hiding as a town that is scum is likely. I'm not a big fan of WIFOM for every arguement I've made thus far. It's like you throw it out there when you have nothing to say in regards except that.

A scum laying low is just as likely. As for WIFOM, I've said it for two of your arguments, namely that 'I (myself) have put myself in a good position to look townish, therefore I am probably scum' and 'If I (farside) was scum then I wouldn't have killed ABR'. I am not just throwing it out there for every argument you've made, in both those instances the logic doesn't follow (in my opinion).

[pete d]

I don't have issues you saying my comment was WIFOM, but my comment to you was not as such.

Your comment was that "If there is only one then I would say pete_d put himself in the best position as looking town for voting against the scum as well as DP." This is bad logic. You basically leave yourself room to switch to either me or DP.

You are at this point not defending the comment, but throwing a WIFOM instead of giving a reason better then that.

I am defending my comment, I think you are using bad logic. Me saying that it's bad logic and explaining why is a pretty good "reason".

I find WIFOM more scummie in your second defense as a way to deflect any real response.

This makes no sense. I gave an argument why your logic was wrong. You are the one who has not addressed my argument, instead brushing it aside by misrepresenting it as "throwing out WIFOM".

I would be happy to vote for either Lowell or farside. I think Lowell is lurking badly, so my vote stays on him for now.

I agree that we need to hear from BM and MoS, at the very least for BM to acknowledge that he'll still be paying attention to (presumably) make his night choice.

[pete d]

unvote, vote: farside

I am left with no other option, however I am still reasonably happy with this vote. BM and Porochaz, front and centre.

[pete d]

Setael got innocents on myself and porochaz. Setael was a COP. If she was naive, we would have been told. Therefore,

vote: BattleMage

. BM, feel free to claim something ridiculous, because this one is a no-brainer.

I thought that bookitty was too trusting of the Doc-claim after what happened in Boringtown...