Pick Your Power: Double Deck (GAME OVER)

[Vecna]

And ill guarantee you ill be back to vote and push you soon if I dont like what im seeing with this scumhunting that you intend to do.

VOTE: MariaR

Pressure subsides. So does her so called "scum hunting".

This is the real scum

[Vecna]

That baffles me because you haven't read me cause I have been scumhunting just because I added a few filler posts you revote me? Fine keep your vote on me then I don't really give a fuck I'm not gonna change my whole play for the likes of you.

Threats will be the last thing to work on me. Trust me on that one

[Vecna]

Damn, I love that staring cat picture

[Vecna]

Why arent u guys doing stuff to entertain me

[Vecna]

You still wanna lynch Mcmenno Vedith?

[Vecna]

Lets post a lot so scum can complain again that theres too many pages to read.

[Vecna]

What makes you think that was directed at you Drealmerz? Interesting.......

[Vecna]

Why arent u guys doing stuff to entertain me

Well ill be damned, my prayers just got answered.

[Vecna]

it was a scummy post you made, it's simple as that, me responding simply pulls that into light more

you're calling anyone who has made comments about the amount of posts / and not posting much because of it, scum - it's a pre-emptively scum-twist of a post

I'm not scum, yet, you've labeled me as such because I fall into the category you addressed, whether you SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED ME OR NOT, the way you phrase and word, frames anyone, like me, as such - at first I got a little laugh and then realized how scummy it was

it's fucking scum-tactics, through and through - doing a full comprehensive view and, probably voting for you from what I've been seeing

I actually had someone else in mind when I wrote the post, but its quite amusing that it caused you to get this triggered for whatever reason. So tell me, why is the post so scummy and why did it suddenly cause you to be this antagonized? Why do you feel so personally attacked by it? Why again so defensive?

[Vecna]

Be nice to Maxous

[Vecna]

So basically what your saying is that my post was scummy because it reminded you of how shit you've been playing? Gotcha.

Starting to see why both Rb and Transcend were called you a giant scumlord. Maybe thats why Rb had to die?

[Vecna]

Ill take that as a yes

[Vecna]

VOTE: Drealmerz77

Time to die mr scumslip

[Vecna]

Another person resorting to what Ill now call the Maria-defense.

[Vecna]

Lets post a lot so scum can complain again that theres too many pages to read.

^ that's a bit funny, but I'm not scum

I've got time now and am doing full catchup, will output my input before too long

btw I think vecna is scum from the perusings I've been doing

Kettle....black....scumslip

[Vecna]

@vecna, dreal

Stfu u two ure both town

Drealmerz is.

How many times are you going to tell Vecna to stop going after town until you realize his win convincingly dictates it?

Look at you, only using the Rb argument when its convenient for you.

[Vecna]

So Titus, youre looking at the drealmerz response to the post I made....and you dont think its all at suspicious that he took it personally to the extent he did, regardless of at least 4 people having complained about the ammount of spam/trashposts etc at a certain point?

Your read of me is seriously clouding your judgement. Or at least that is what you want everyone to believe.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Titus

[Vecna]

At everyone voting for Jackel using the " Must follow Rb's scumreads" argument. Just realize he also scumread Titus and Dreal in the very same post.

[Vecna]

This game needs more spyrex posts.

[Vecna]

Fuck it, if were not gonna get any decent wagons today we might as well get this over with

VOTE: Jackel-somenumber

[Vecna]

Our time will come kraska

[Vecna]

Chinese food > pizza

[Vecna]

Heres another question: Would a scum jackal really claim here and risk getting lynched tomorrow without being able to use vengefull? Or just accept hes caught and take out the most dangerous town for his teammembers?

[Vecna]

The way he plays this makes it even more likely that he's town imo.

UNVOTE: Jackel

[Vecna]

Oh dont worry, ill keep towntelling and actually making sense harder than you can convince people that all my posts are terrible.

If in the end it does turn out youre town as well at least we'll have kept eachother sharp and on our toes.

[Vecna]

Spoiler:

I have two ways of setup specing people into scum roles for this setup. At this point I don't think I'll reveal the who or why on that method of PoEing scum other than to say it works for me in the PyP X/Y open setup which works very similar to this one. It's by no means infallible but it does identify more likely candidates.

I find it interesting that none of the people I'd setup spec into one of the scum roles using method 1 are being wagoned. I haven't really looked at method 2 other than one person I'd normally identify for that role is acting pretty townie.

Pedit: @rb: you can be more idiotic if you try.

6 - rb - Town
9 - Creature - Nulltown
14 - Jackel98 - Nullscumlurker
26 - MariaR - Weak town
42 - Vedith - Scum
77 - kraska77 - Weak scum
3141592653 - Titus - Town
4 - MagnaofIllusion - Null leaning scum
4 - Transcend - Weak town
5 - gerryoat - Null leaning town
5 - Fishythefish - Null
11 - davesaz - Town
11 - Kison - Null leaning scum
13 - gigabyteTroubadour - Weak town
13 - Maxous - Null
17 - drealmerz7 - Undecided
17 - Drone - Null
2 - Vecna - Weak town
2 - Dunnstral - Null
2 - SpyreX - Null
12 - McMenno - Null leaning scum
12 - Lil Uzi Vert - Weak town
12 - Vifam - Null leaning town

Some of the nulls have not said enough, others have posts but I haven't focused there enough to read.

DaveSav - im curious how these two posts have evolved so far. Any other reads that changed besides Maria and Jackel to a little extent? If so, why?

[Vecna]

Oh, now the interesting questions are happening

[Vecna]

Jackal claimed vengeful a while ago - it's not like it was just when he was being lynched. And scum might well not have realised the problem with claiming - it's pretty hard to shift mindset to one where your role keeps changing. I'm pretty unconvinced by his sudden SR on Titus, looks like halfhearted scum near the noose to me.

Whether to lynch him today or not is tricky. Depends exactly how likely he is to be scum. Even quite likely scumbags are worth giving a vengeful shot - if they're better than 50% town, their shot is better than the average kill. I tend to think that, despite all our grand talk, lynches are little better than random. So I'd say we *should* be happy to lynch a scummy vengeful player. I want to sleep on that, though.

I cannot find anything about him claiming vengeful earlier in his iso - am I not looking hard enough?

[Vecna]

If were gonna speedbandwagon new stuff, how about Davesaz?

VOTE: Davesaz

[Vecna]

If were gonna speedbandwagon new stuff, how about Davesaz?

VOTE: Davesaz

Why?

Because for someone that is so aware of all the ins and outs of the setup he is way too quiet

[Vecna]

What do you mean by that?

[Vecna]

Ok. Just sheep me and everything will be alright.

[Vecna]

I aint going nowhere. Im the lonely dog barking up a tree. Either im wrong, and scum is fine to let me keep barking, or im very right and scum does not want an entire rabble beneath their tree.

[Vecna]

Thats like 2 semi-compliments in a row. On the third one ill be obliged to send you a fruit basket.

[Vecna]

If were gonna speedbandwagon new stuff, how about Davesaz?

VOTE: Davesaz

Why?

Because for someone that is so aware of all the ins and outs of the setup he is way too quiet

Town has a vested interest in keeping the people who can logic the game in the 2nd half alive during the first half.
If you're town, you're trying to lose. If you're scum, you're absolutely correct that I'm one of the players who can nail you if you let me.

My earlier weak town on Maria evolved to weak scum over the playing dumb angle.
Still SR Vedith, and was trying to figure out if Jackel is town vengeful or scum trying to use it as a threat to save himself.

Biggy Smalls.....Biggy Smalls.......Biggy Sm. ... ...

[Vecna]

Im sure you can logic your way to the answer

[Vecna]

If were gonna speedbandwagon new stuff, how about Davesaz?

VOTE: Davesaz

Why?

Because for someone that is so aware of all the ins and outs of the setup he is way too quiet

This is the first halfway acceptable vote you've had in awhile. Tempted to follow, but you've been wrong so much. It's no where near my ideal list though.

Neither is it for me, but as I said......the lone dog

[Vecna]

Yeah! You tell her, Max!

Only GERRYOAT can pull blatantly scummy moves and just get away with it because of GERRYOAT'S personality.

Often imitated never duplicated.

It slightly annoys me how correct this is

[Vecna]

Guys get back on jackal and let's direct that shot.
I say we make him shoot Maria. Thoughts?

Why then not just _LYNCH_ maria? This idea is rather pointless.

Either Jackel is scum, and he ignores our request.......

Or he is town, and we sacrifice a town while we can just directly lynch her instead.

[Vecna]

Dunn is posting in every game but this one.

If we lynch Jackal today, he kills someone.

Vecna, do you tr Dunn?

I do believe I put him in my "bad lynch today" pile earlier.

I dont TR him, but the way he is in blatant "Look at me not giving a shit mode" makes me suspect he aint scum.

[Vecna]

Also, if we wanna get rid of the players that are just not giving a shit I still have a fruit basket I could send to one, and I have a reasonably good idea of one person in that category that might be allergic today.

[Vecna]

Dunn is posting in every game but this one.

If we lynch Jackal today, he kills someone.

Vecna, do you tr Dunn?

I do believe I put him in my "bad lynch today" pile earlier.

I dont TR him, but the way he is in blatant "Look at me not giving a shit mode" makes me suspect he aint scum.

This seems all sorts of incoherent.

Let me rephrase then; I suspect he's slightly more likely to flip town than scum, but since there's so many people in this game blatantly not giving a shit there's bound to be 1 or more faking scum in them. But it remains a crapshoot to lynch based on those reasons.

[Vecna]

Dave is nowhere near the too scummy to be scum play that dunn/gerry/menno etc are doing.

He's actually trying to appear town but failing and just feels scummy as a politician

[Vecna]

MariaR is scum
And Titus is scummy

And let me tell you guys why






In the morning, thank you all for your patience

Thank you for that post. Now im definitely not going to be lynching you.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Kison

Some more motivation might be required

[Vecna]

Why does he? All I see is oooh popular wagon

*throws a post mentioning them*

Wait

*vote*

I'll answer this post about Kison's scumhunting (or lack thereof) later. No time now.

Fishythefish: Not clear on whether you're in support of directing the vengekill since you argued against it in

post 3199

but seem to be suggesting we direct it at McMenno in

3267

. Or are you suggesting that McMenno should be today's lynch?

I was thinking (or rather, idling musing) about a lynch. Way to close to deadline to be randomly fracturing wagons, though.

On the vengekill - while I don't think we should "direct" the vengekill in any formal or votey way, I'm all up for him hearing my advice! And I think a McMenno kill would be an excellent kill.

Can you elaborate a bit more on your reasons for why you think McMenno is scum? I think I have have a way of potentially killing him, and im currently having a bit of an inner discussion whether its worth it or not.


Titus, whats your opinion about dunn after his recent posts?

[Vecna]

Gonna go through his Iso for a bit, dont hammer yet please.

[Vecna]

Hmmmmm reading the ISO resulted me changing my thoughts, I probably cannot kill him.

[Vecna]

Also, he's probably either town or the scum infiltrator

[Vecna]

Spoiler:

Does this indicate 2-c? Want some fruit dunn?

[Vecna]

How come?

What other dream situations would you like to see this game?

Now that youre here, what other reads do you have about this game in general and the players in it?

Do you think Gerry deserves a fruit basket?

[Vecna]

Boooring

[Vecna]

Hear that Titus, Jackel has a special place in his heart for you........

Oh I can hammer? Gee thats interesting

[Vecna]

Yeah im just sitting here enjoying the show, taking in how everyone goes about their busines with this L1 thing.

What I find interesting is that only Kraska has enough convinction in his vote to call upon others to vote the wagon he's on. The rest is just hiding

[Vecna]

her* sorry

[Vecna]

So titus, do you still think Jackel is scum? Or are you just not voting because youre afraid he'll drag you along with him?

[Vecna]

Oh Titus, another interesting question. Do you still think that I am scum?

[Vecna]

Allright it appears this wagon is not going anywhere and at the same time noone is willing to take any kind of responsibility for it. Chickenshits the lot of ya.

The game needs to move forward though because at the moment it is a boring abomination. Time for some chaos.

The wagon analysis will be sweet im sure.

Jackel if you are town, I hope you do the sensible thing and drag Maria with you.

Although im still surprised that Titus took my one post defending you as me suddenly being sensible and using it as a means to sound his retreat.

VOTE: Jackel

Cya all tomorrow (or not)

[Vecna]

My number 1 scumread is and will always remain

Maria

[Vecna]

But I also still have a soft spot in my heart for you Titus

[Vecna]

But I also still have a soft spot in my heart for you Titus

You're going to have to use your nightkill.

Aaaaw, and here I was thinking you were starting to warm up to the idea (fact) of me being town

[Vecna]

titus when maria asked the mod about that card, mod said you wont become a lover until that card is activated

Right, but if I get vigged by town, we lose the dual lynch if the other K dies.

If Jackal is scum, he won't want to murder me to get two kills.

And now because you claimed, town is gonna lose 2 people as soon as a king shows up.

This feels almost as bad as scumpicking vengeful to save your ass.

[Vecna]

They'd need to find the other first.

LOL did you just claim scum????

[Vecna]

Why would they need to find the other 1 if they can just nightkill you and get 2 kills for the price of one?

That was a major scumslip

[Vecna]

Why would they need to find the other 1 if they can just nightkill you and get 2 kills for the price of one?

That was a major scumslip

King hasn't come up yet.

Thats why I said AFTER the king comes....to which you replied " they still need to find the other one then ". As in they cant kill you become youre one of them....

its very interesting that you only keep stating vecna = scum whenever I point out your scummy behaviour Titus.

When you realize you might get killed by the jackel wagon, im suddenly full of good votes and good reasoning that you can follow to try and back off of the lynch that YOU started and pushed.

Whenever someone else picks a card its completely NAI, but when Titus has the king of diamonds its suddenly your armor that is supposed to protect you from all suspicion?

Yeah....not bloody likely

[Vecna]

Hmmm order went slightly different, but never the less

[Vecna]

This is the moment where Titus tactically disappears....as has been the case every single time where the arguments got brought out that she couldnt counter.

[Vecna]

Scum that are confident they can control the dual lynches.

Scum that are confident they can mine enough town-cred out of picking K-diamonds to utilize said dual lynches

[Vecna]

Spin much?

-------------------------------------
^^^^
I did start and push Jackal, but you've acted like you know he's town the entire time.

Whose spinning now? Everyone knows that this is not true, but youve been trying to discredit my every move in getting people to explain their vote on Jackel.....right untill it became obvious that he was likely going to KILL YOU. Then my 1 post was suddenly super convenient and full of correct logic. Because then you needed a way to save yourself.

[Vecna]

Topic shift? How about you answer that criticism I just leveled at you? Dont think youre gonna get away with your lies every single time, and then use your " SHADING/SPIN/MISREP " nonsense every time to try and discredit me because you have no better answer. Because if anyone, it applies to you.

I voted Kison because he dodged your question for him to provide reads. Instead of you further pressing him, you just joined the vote and let it go. No more pushing at all.

The same happened when I tried to get you to explain the connection between Kison and LUV. No response.

[Vecna]

Also as another point: King of diamonds is not a bad card for scum at all - it has an even better potection mechanism behind it than jack of clubs / vengefull etc.

Claim you picked it as soon as any real danger emerges and play it off as a " scum would never pick it "
Then when it comes active.. Even more protection....since you suddenly become unlynchable since it drags another towny and the double lynch mechanism along.

In fact, it doesnt even matter, because town is gonna pick that card regardless, so the double lynch will happen on diamonds anyway. You might even make town miss out on a card later in the draft.

You just claiming that card just smells like scum using it exactly for these reasons. Your own defence. If you were town, you wouldnt just have so selfishly claimed the card just to save your own hide. If you really were town, you signed the death warrant of 2 townies as soon as it becomes active.

You are caught scum.

[Vecna]

Wow. You've shifted to outright lies now. I have been pushing for Kison's reads all day.

I quoted their interactions and explained why the link too.

Ill cede the point that you made 1 more remark about his reads after your vote. Good luck finding more witty comments to defend against the rest.

[Vecna]

Well apparently you DO recycle bullshit after I leave you an out.

Rather than see I was telling the truth about explaining how Kison and Luv are linked and demanding Kison's reads, you shirt back to already disproven points.

You're arguing now that scum would basically endanger themselves whenever diamonds came up just to try and argue I am scum. You're just throwing garbage out there hoping Jackal shoots me rather than you or Kison.

Im not afraid to die.

I couldnt care less if Kison gets shot

I call you out on your bullshit. Someone has to do it and noone else will. And yes, im fine with either you or Maria getting shot because im quite convinced again that you've been protecting her (your scum teammate) all day.

[Vecna]

Youre such a hypocrit. Whining all day about shade/misrep and whatnot, but when people bring valid arguments against you, all you do is call it spam, lies and bulshit.

[Vecna]

Kraska, the logic checks out perfectly.

Town are gonna have one of those cards regardless. So theyre gonna have to face double lynch on diamonds anyways.

Scum are outnumbered 5v18 in this game. They need to kill a lot of people. And they need to gather towncred.

King of diamonds is perfect for that. Picking 1 of that card as scum is actually a clever strategy. See how everyone townreads the card. Think about how no vig will shoot him after a king comes, and noone will lynch him. And as a cherry on top, if you ever do die, you get to drag another towny with you.

[Vecna]

If Vecna keeps this up, I am ignoring his posts and policy lynching him.

And now the AtE starts

[Vecna]

Saying if someone doesnt stop his arguments against you saying you'll ignore him isnt applying to emotion?

[Vecna]

You could repeal exactly one of my arguments lol. And just barely.

State one other thing thats a lie except me being wrong about you asking Kison about his reads again after your vote.

[Vecna]

She didnt state that directly, but the message totally implied that......

Also Titus you started this, not me. In the last 3 pages you posted just as much as me.

Your comment about them needing to find the other was did look like a scumslip. Or did you get annoyed by my comment that I still have a soft spot for you?

So how is it me thats the bad bad person here, thats lying, spamming pages full of stuff, making the game unreadable for everyone.

Every time I make a post, you use one of these things to discredit them:

1: Vecna is scum

2: Vecna is lying

3: Vecna is shading

4: vecna is misrepping

5: and now im spamming and making the game unreadable?

Anyways im done.

[Vecna]

Spoiler:

Funny, I say I would move to a larger wagon, and the lil wagon disperses. Noted.

If we are lynching based off bad wagon, it would be Vedith not Uzi wagoned though.

RB, is there any reason to townread Maxous and assume townbeard?

It's midnight and I make my daily rounds. Sue me.

Funny, I say I would move to a larger wagon, and the lil wagon disperses. Noted.

What do you read into that? While I don't know the motivations of anyone else on the wagon, I think these are likely entirely unrelated.

I dunno yet, but I document and observe patterns. The Uzi/Kison link is still rather huge in my mind. More data (read: flips) will make that more useful.

Also if Vecna is scum I bet Titus is also

Comments like this make me want to strangle you Bart.

I -might- be coming around on my read on Titus. I really liked post 1/2/4 that I quoted here and think it sounds rather towny. Post 3 sounds somewhat more scummy to me again, but maybe its just because it sounds so vague and I dont really see it / or what she means.

I dont like most of her reads per se (duh she scumreads me), and I really dont see Vedith being scum here. Titus, can you go into a bit more details why you see connections between Kison/LUV? I might be willing to test this one theory since so many people have been scumreading LUV.

I meant you never responded to this post (which came after your post where you quoted all their posts). You mightve noticed that pretty much noone understood your case against them.

[Vecna]

Anyways, I think your case on Kison has merit. I dont really see how you also deduce from it that LUV is scum though. Care to explain it? What I think im understanding from it is that you feel this way because he ignores any of the allegations from Kison?

Updated Would lynch today list:
Maria (I still think youre wrong on this Titus)
Davesaz
Jackal

Also willing to test your theory on Kison if others will go for it. With the way he's playing its definately not a great loss to town even if it is a mislynch.

Theres some other slots that are being completely useless that id be more than glad to get rid of. Maybe ill sent em some fruit if they dont start participating.

oops, quoted the wrong post before.

[Vecna]

So just to once again reinforce my point, since you just keep claiming im lying (and I did quote the wrong post, so its partially my fault).....

You make your case in 2637.....fairly quickly after I make a post stating that Kraska keeps becoming more obvious town to me, and you wonder why I dont feel the same about you. I respond with post 2654, as quoted above here. I ask you for further clarification, but it never follows. This was what stood out to me, since I was not the only one finding your case hard to grasp (as other have stated, you quote half the thread and then give us 2,5 lines of explenation).

[Vecna]

Also, Rb had died even before you posted your case on them, so I dont really see how that had anything to do with it....

[Vecna]

Ok, so this daystart pretty much couldnt have gone better. Hopefully the one missing neighbourhood in diamonds isnt the doc one so that they can save Giga. If Giga isnt saved that neighbourhood should be able to flush out the scum that picked the doc quite easily.

im proposing the following:
Doc can claim in that neighbourhood when diamond comes if he saved giga.
When hearts come, giga is confirmed town as well (or confirmed scum if the gm cannot reveal him as town)
Vedith should be treated as soft-confirmed town for his picks (and his play as well imo)
Deckrigger is pretty much useless from now on, but should claim for another townclear. Anyone still thinking scum would do this is insane (im quite sure its you, correct dunn? )

This should give us a block of 4 pretty much softcleared towns that significantly reduces our lynchpool.

Hopefully giga is the only person with the 2-h since only 1 person can be saved.

For now: VOTE: MariaR. If this does indeed flip scum, we should probably have a look at all the people that called for Jackel to shoot Maria that werent scumreading her prior. If she was indeed saved by the white mage, scum probably anticipated that town would be quite chaotic today due to the no venge death.

[Vecna]

Nooo Vedith, dont leave us

[Vecna]

Ok so I just thought of a sneaky little plan to screw scum over completely.

Beta deck-rigger claims
As soon as the 7 becomes trump - Cardrevivers give the deckriggers (both the one with the beta, and transcend with the alpha) back a very annoying trumpcard that they can put on top (for example the one that was put on top now)
On any spade or club they can rig the deck with these newly gained cards
big profit

This does ofcourse rely on the two 7's of hearts not being in scum hands, but if people agree with this plan we can pretty much dictate the mafia factional kill, OR screw them over into autoloss.

[Vecna]

thats the spirit

[Vecna]

You sure about that? I did sent gerry a fruitbasket yesterday ^^

Hey Gerry, how you enjoying the fruit basket? Why couldnt you just die

[Vecna]

Anyways, just to be sure - you did lose your ace of hearts right trans? Didnt you confirm that earlier?

[Vecna]

nm, iso check confirms

[Vecna]

We should not hammer this wagon today before EVERYONE has commented on why he is/is not voting Maria. No more naked vote bullshit, especially from people that have not been suspecting maria prior

[Vecna]

This is probably why creature had to die:

So somebody put that Alpha Deck Rig card on top of the deck?

VOTE: Drone

Just voting the player with the most votes for now. I know he was at L-1 a little while ago. Was that a bad thing? ^_^

Okay, found a very bad vote.

MariaR and milkshake are most likely the scum in the wagon, maybe Titus also is.

[Vecna]

Didnt you say you had it vedith? Because jackel had the other one

[Vecna]

How do you explain her surviving it Titus? (if it indeed was Maria that was targeted, but that seems pretty likely).

Do you really think scum would save town Maria? Why? Just in the hopes of us wasting a lynch on it?

[Vecna]

GM, does bulletproof protect again the vengeful kill? Also, do people get notified if a doctor/white mage type of ability saves them?

[Vecna]

Maria being scum and protected is by far the most likely explanation for the no-kill.

- A shot on Vedith, giga or no shot - the non-mage options for the no-kill - are unlikely from Jackel's ISO.
- So, the shot was very likely predicted and blocked by the white mage.
- Looking at Jackel again, he'd disavowed a Titus lynch, and cooled off on a kraska one. Reading his posting, I'd say he was very likely to shoot Maria or McMenno.
- Neither of those targets is a protect for a townMage. So, it was a scum protection.
- Of those, McMenno only gained any attention near the end of the day. Protecting him is possible, but would have had to be pretty sharp. Way more likely is a Maria protection.

Adding a scummy claim to that (Godfather, Ninja), I've no need to reread Maria. This is a good lynch.

If i was a doctor, I would protect Maria.

doctors werent even active, except for the -1- remaining white mage card, which disables all cops.

Scum protection is the only possibility, unless Jackel killed someone else.

[Vecna]

I went through your iso Titus, but I cannot really find reasons why youre protecting Maria so much.

You literally spent so much time defending her.....WHY?

[Vecna]

And do you know who Transcend healed?

Transcend's white mage was never active.

[Vecna]

I felt like this is one of my best games and I've been sr yr4y4rs5ys5ye

Your best game is constantly defending yourself with "I dont know why you SR me, im doing stuff, honestly!". What have you done exactly this game that makes this one of your best games? Youve been scumread right out of the gates.

[Vecna]

yeah the fact that docs are active at the same time suddenly makes the card quite a bit better. Good thing noone appears to have picked the 2nd one though since the doc is dead.

[Vecna]

At any rate: Maria is claiming to have picked the JACK OF HEARTS. Since Rb died with one as well, this could easily be proven as a lie if its the case. If someone else has that J-hearts they should out it.

At any rate, picking that cop doesnt mean she cannot be mafia ofcourse, but if we can find out if she's lying itd be the definitive final nail.

[Vecna]

I felt like this is one of my best games and I've been sr yr4y4rs5ys5ye

Your best game is constantly defending yourself with "I dont know why you SR me, im doing stuff, honestly!". What have you done exactly this game that makes this one of your best games? Youve been scumread right out of the gates.

You mean you have been trying to mislynch her and whipped the town into a frenzy when there's zilch to support Maria scum that is not an assumption

Are you even reading the thread?

[Vecna]

There's a reason the beta card rigger isn't claiming.

Not in public at any rate

[Vecna]

The diamonds are coming

[Vecna]

Dont worry Dunn, I know who the rigger is and im fairly sure he's town. If he wants to claim publicly or not thats upto him.

Scum giving up a carddraw card AND their factional kill for an entire kill cycle just to have people holding the 2-H die (while at least one of them could most likely still be doc-saved) makes very little sense.

[Vecna]

I like giraffes.

[Vecna]

milkshake seems to have vanished off the face off the earth

[Vecna]

Cant be much worse than milkshake

[Vecna]

This is actually the -first- lynch with decent logic.

[Vecna]

Yeah a hammer in this dead game right about now would be lovely.

[Vecna]

Thanks dunn

[Vecna]

VOTE: maria

Yea yea sooo scummy let's get r done

Youre next tomorrow

[Vecna]

And thats a hammer

[Vecna]

I have the card spy results and have shared them with 2 people that I trust. Im not gonna post them in here, and wont risk them being spread to the neighbourhoods as its too much of a scum benefit to have that information. The one thing ill tell is that tonight is a hearts trump, so giga can become a confirmed townclear - imo along with the doc that saved him.

Also I first want to find out whether the card revives are both townsided. I have a decent townread of dunn, so hopefully he can shed more light on the matter on how certain he is on the second card revive.

The most obvious choice here would be to card revive a card to transcend for him to put on top of the deck....but he could also be a potential scumkill since he's also towncleared. So go ahead and wifom it imo and let scum choose between a big risk or a suboptimal kill. shame you guys cannot talk about it in your neighbourhood atm (unless youre also together in the spades?).

[Vecna]

Actually, I'd be very comfortable lynching Spyrex.

Count me in for this, the way he jumped on the Maria bandwagon felt Ultra-busmode to me.

[Vecna]

Also, I really dont see why anyone thinks ^ mr LUV up here is scum, these types of posts appear super genuine to me and he has been for a while.

[Vecna]

I personally think Menno is pretty damn town

[Vecna]

wish we were together in a neighbourhood as well giga, if only I had gotten that Ace of hearts (no offence to my current partner though, were gonna solve this shit together).

[Vecna]

I agree that Dunn should card revive before the 48 hours since him holding the card is public knowledge and scum might think about killing him.

The other person can wait since scum probably arent gonna take the gamble IF they even are int he hearts neighbourhood.

[Vecna]

By my guesstimates nearly all aces are gone from the deck now Giga so I feel that'd be a terrible choice.

[Vecna]

Im able to get a doctor card by tonight by the way, but it comes at a price

[Vecna]

There is guaranteed a 2nd card revive

[Vecna]

There are a lot of good uses of the card revives, but please please please: Do not state in public which one youre going to choose. Do not give scum the information.

Good options I can see:

Card revive the 2 different cop cards to two different people
Card revive harmfull-for-scum trump cards both to fishy and trancend
Card revive protective abilities such as the jack of spades to hard townreads.
Card revive a neighbourhood card to me so I can get into a smaller talking environment with Giga ^^

[Vecna]

yo wait

what if we give me rigging powers

that way, after i confirm myself, i can rig my 2 of hearts onto the deck and disable the mafia kill again...?

or are we unable to revive spades cards?

Based on my card-spy this is unlikely to work

[Vecna]

Anyways Marry christmass to all. talk later

[Vecna]

Giga, if the ace still comes my neighbourise partner will target you, and he will communicate all our messages along. No need to waste on the A-h now.

[Vecna]

What use is that post if youre only doing it off the top of your head? Make it factual or gtfo

[Vecna]

@Giga I am also miller on diamonds. If you carefully read my earlier posts today i believe with that info you should be able to account for all diamonds now, no?

[Vecna]

my posting the coming 6 or so days is still gonna be a bit more limited. Quite sure it wont come to prods but just letting you guys know.

[Vecna]

Good news everyone. Based on my analysis (with a bit of help from gigas inventory result) i think i have concluded noone can/will mess with the upcoming trump cards since me and my mason partner hold all those powers.So ill be disclosing the good stuff that is coming:

These are the following:
6 of hearts (tonight)
7 of diamonds (tomorrow)

This means tomorrow we will get 2 extra card revives and our double lynch. Noone should be able to die during the night as far as i can deduce.

Having said that.....WE ARE NOT LYNCHING DUNN TODAY. I dont buy dunn "slipping" a nk target more than a full (night)phase before scum could kill anyone again, and then inviting more people to witness the evidence. We can decide his card revive choice tomorrow if me and Giga fail to convince people that dunn is town, so its only to our benefit to keep him around. If he goes against our wishes (he wont), theres always the double lynch tomorrow.

[Vecna]

have my babies vecna holy fucking shit

also you saw my correction to my result, right? (13, not 14)

and thanks Uzi, that actually helps speaking of my inventory result

Titus card holdings did confuse the hell out of me, but after i saw the correction it all made sense

[Vecna]

Oh and i tried to soft to you which one it is guga. I have it, and my few recent posts should hint enough at what it is.

Theres 2 cards left in the deck that could stop the trumps from coming. I have 1, my mason partner has the other.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Arcangel9 any day imo

[Vecna]

I'm surprised so far we havent seen a stealth vig today (unless trans was it)

[Vecna]

Someone remind me why the vifam replacement isnt a good lynch for today? Id love for all these empty slots to get murdered, but that one doeant appear to get any mention.

[Vecna]

Consider it my way of letting you know i felt your playstyle was expendable

[Vecna]

Luckily tonight you can remove yourself from that pile agaib giga

[Vecna]

Consider it my way of letting you know i felt your playstyle was expendable

Luckily you outed a Sr on me beforehand or I'd tunnel you into the ground. You should know Dunn tried to make you look scum for that in the Diamond neighborhood.

Meh Dunn shouldve picked up on the fact i knew he had the 2 of clubs and realized theres a reason he wasnt the target

[Vecna]

Lol gerry.....

[Vecna]

Dunn had the 2 of clubs? That's a new claim, right?

He beta deck rigged it, so hardly a new claim

[Vecna]

Guess thats what i get for playing on mobile without my notes haha. Mixing up people, sorry. Move along nothing to see here.

[Vecna]

Still dont get either why people had such a strong read on magna. Slot was a complete blank since the start of the game as far as I'm concerned. At any rate, way to many of those slots left, and i have to many townreads for them not to be scumfested.

[Vecna]

Happy new year guys. Still have a whole bunch to read up on which will have to come later.

Still on a trip untill the fourth.

[Vecna]

Or just like....lets get rid of the shit slot already.

[Vecna]

Why are mathblade and gerry of all people on your do not lynch list alongside giga who is most likely going to be mechanically towncleared tomorow?

[Vecna]

why did I even bother to ask

[Vecna]

watch and see what happens when the wagon gets to L-1

[Vecna]

Oh speak of the devil.

Bye

VOTE: McMenno

[Vecna]

Wait Maxous tricked me, NOW its L1 by my count

[Vecna]

How disappointing, there goes my attempt at a dramatic hammer

[Vecna]

Guess at this point we can safely say theres no stealth vigs drafted by anyone.......surprising scum strategy to be sure.

[Vecna]

Guess at this point we can safely say theres no stealth vigs drafted by anyone.......surprising scum strategy to be sure.

No we can't. Stealth vig scum would encouraging gentlemen claiming then knock people off one by one.

Not sure what you mean with this but.....Stealth vigs are active today. Noone has been shot by a stealth vig. Why would scum not shoot people when the day can be hammered at any time thus wasting their ability?

[Vecna]

fruit vendor and suit veto

Were u the one that sent fruit to LUV?

[Vecna]

Also Menno, of all the neighbourhood cards of those suits, why did you choose the fruit vendor and Suit veto combinations?

[Vecna]

After Giga, fish is the most obvious town in this game.

Im hoping some more people can indicate willingness to switch to AA9. We need to get a lynch in here today but id strongly prefer AA9 to be honest.

VOTE: ArchAngel9 Just parking it back here to drive my point home. If noone proves willing ill be back with the hammer in style.

[Vecna]

Better secure yourself those 1-2 extra mcmenno votes then, ill be back.

Sometimes it feels like this website could really do with a bit more of a "follow the leader" mentality to reduce the ammount of game-apathy that appears to accumulate in quite some games.

[Vecna]

Sometimes it feels like this website could really do with a bit more of a "follow the leader" mentality to reduce the ammount of game-apathy that appears to accumulate in quite some games.

^^

but which leader do we follow!?!?!?! >:O

*insert two-face quotes from the dark knight, flips a coin*

Seems its not your lucky day AA9

[Vecna]

Now were talking. 2 more votes, this way

[Vecna]

7 votes for aa9, 6 for McMenno

24h remaining, 3 votes on vanity wagons that are not happening. Make your pick guys.

[Vecna]

just hammer this crap already giga, not like waiting another 12-24h is gonna change anything.

[Vecna]

Yeah after some more brief deliberations with my PT partner, this is the lynch I want. Wagon composition might not look as good on paper, but scum using Menno as a neighbourhood infiltrator just seems about as plausible as the Rock being asked to be the next James Bond. No offense intended Menno

[Vecna]

Its ok Giga, you'll die soon enough one way or the other :p

[Vecna]

Id say the person that is your pt/mason guy can also just neighbourise me? No need for scum to know who gets chosen so the information chain is harder to break

[Vecna]

Just reminding people my card spy result wont be in before the 48 hour mark, since im quite sure they follow the same rules as all other day actions. Sorry for the following, but it has to happen:

Gm, question list time:
-If I submit my card spy action, it will indeed not give me the results untill 48 hours into the day, correct?
-If scum kill the holder of lights out lynching, will the effect still persist for the rest of the day? If not, what if the first lynch has already happened? will we still get the second lynch if the person holding the card dies after the first lynch?

[Vecna]

depending on the answer to the second question, we might want to do the first lynch before the 48h deadline is over

[Vecna]

Fish, we need to discuss the shuffle/card spy order as well

[Vecna]

Thats what im assuming as well Grey, the more important question is whether we can quicklynch before the 48 deadline and deny scum the option to do anything about it.

As in, if the second lynch has already started, does removing the card still stop the process already underway.

[Vecna]

I meant we know tonights card, so we could also decide to shuffle first, then cardspy.

However, seeing how that card will actually be very usefull for a number of things, thats probably a pretty bad option. A much better option is indeed to look at the coming cards and have my hood partner decide whether the cards for tomorrow/tomorrownight are desirable or shuffle-bait.

You got the trumpcard info right Fishy? I still think its better to keep it a secret for a number of reasons since itll probably strongly influence mafia kill options. It might however, also influence our lynch choices for today. What do you think? (without giving any info away, or we can take it to the QT but having a middleman there is a nuisance).

[Vecna]

Allright, ive passed along my result from last night in the pt and will do the same with the card spy results when theyre in so we can discuss what well make public.

[Vecna]

Sounds good. FYI in case it matters in these discussions: I only know two of your drafted cards. Not sure if that's deliberate, and fine if it is.

I only had two, since I missed one

[Vecna]

Alright: GAME SOLVING TIME.

These results are too interesting/potentially lethal/game solving potentially-high for me to withhold them from the general public

CARDSPY RESULTS:

9 of Hearts
3 of Spades
5 of Spades

[Vecna]

Surprised youre not more happy about this giga; there is so much potential in these trumps on first sight, and noone cares that you cannot hard confirm yourself except mathblade

9 of hearts: 2 card cops, potentially an inventory use, vig ability that we can direct from spyrex, doc active
3 of spades: inventory + neighbourise (we can finally talk indirectly), jailkeeper
5 of spades: card cop, neighbourise

Most importantly; we can card revive both deck rigging's (J-Spades) to do some very interesting things.

[Vecna]

Also: my hood partner still has to option of shuffling the deck during the night so we dont get the spade stuff.

We have some very good choices to solve the game here imo

[Vecna]

Clubs would be my best guess since someone is going to fakeclaim to hide that Ace of clubs

[Vecna]

There is 2 of them in the discard pile actually

[Vecna]

Were not following mathblade's plan btw. Its an enourmous waste of resources to achieve a townclear on a likely scumkill.

[Vecna]

Problem is....if we do give giga the Jack of spades we can be quite sure that he will never live to use it. Scum is going to have two factional kills to use before it will be of use to us.

I think giving the 3 of clubs to one of the towny players is probably by far the best idea. If someone has the 9 of hearts we'll know the number of cards for all suits remaining in the deck and we can flush out any lies when it comes to card claims.

[Vecna]

reviving the 3c does make it active tomorrow during the day....when the 3-s comes. I dont mean to put the 3-c as trump since they would be useless, but just to use the inventory ability to gain full knowledge of what the deck holds.

And the deck rigging would be done tomorrow night, so that the 2's are trumps for the day. Meaning scum does indeed have 2 factional kills before that can happen.

[Vecna]

Im no longer against a massclaim fishy, at this point its definately the way to go and itll probably flush out the scum like no tomorrow, especially if we can inventory on all 4 suits

At this moment I am REALLY REALLY interested in Spyrex' flip.

He indeed has been acting a lot more towny lately, but this 8 of spades business still sits funny with me. If someone has the inventory tonight im now thinking it should go on SPADES if were not lynching spyrex today.

[Vecna]

Ok look at this - this is what im thinking is what is REALLY going on in this game:

Claimed cards:
Mathblade: J-c, 8-s, 2-s
Spyrex: 9-s, 8-s, 2-s
TWIE: 9-c, 5-c, MISSING 8-s, claimed random picks

Stuff we know:
-Maria picked a pro town card
-Some town early in the draft picked pro-scum cards to deny them to scum
-Several people have been die-hard advocates of claiming stuff starting very early.

What im suspecting is really going on:
Mathblade: J-c,

8-s

, 2-s ---> Hidden pro-scum card
Spyrex: 9-s,

8-s

, 2-s ---> Hidden pro-scum card
TWIE: 9-c,

5-c

,

MISSING 8-s

, claimed random picks ---> 9-c, Ace of clubs, actually missed out on either the ninja or godfather card

Scum decided to go deep undercover by picking a ton of towncards for towncred. It is just

too much of a coincidence

that 3 people decided to all pick one of the

objectively worst cards in the deck

. They got caught offguard both by the claim happy people and the fact that one of them missed out on one of the most obvious scumpicks. Vifam never could claim that he wanted to pick those cards to deny them to scum SINCE HE WAS LAST IN THE DRAFT. So either they had to sacrifice themselves straight away, or claim a card with the team that no town would ever pick. Vifam now again claimed a card that noone imo would ever pick, the 5 of clubs. I strongly suspects he's the one holding the Ace of clubs.

If im right the scum strategy is very straight forward with a simple thought process behind it. Pick pro-town cards for towncred, combined with plenty of defensive shit (Jack of clubs, 2-s, ninja/godfather) that makes you either very hard to lynch or make town not want to lynch you.

[Vecna]

Everyone has been avoiding fruit allergy cards like the plague. Theres even a watcher availlable with an arguably lesser downside (miller). If theres any club card to fakeclaim with zero risk of 2 other people holding it......thats the one.

I think its quite obviously that the "objectively" least desirable cards are: 8 of spades, 3 of spades, Queen of clubs and 5 of clubs. All cards where the downside is bigger than the upside. Claiming that you randomly picked 2 of those, and that there just happen to be 2 people that also picked these is already a stretch

[Vecna]

My theory being true this would mean that the upcoming trumps that activate cardcops are going to destroy the scumteam if we inspect the right people.

Who are the people arguing the hardest for the deck to be shuffled, or heart trumps being put up there instead of the card-cop cards? I know that mathblade was one of them at least.

[Vecna]

Ok look at this - this is what im thinking is what is REALLY going on in this game:

Claimed cards:
Mathblade: J-c, 8-s, 2-s
Spyrex: 9-s, 8-s, 2-s
TWIE: 9-c, 5-c, MISSING 8-s, claimed random picks

Stuff we know:
-Maria picked a pro town card
-Some town early in the draft picked pro-scum cards to deny them to scum
-Several people have been die-hard advocates of claiming stuff starting very early.

What im suspecting is really going on:
Mathblade: J-c,

8-s

, 2-s ---> Hidden pro-scum card
Spyrex: 9-s,

8-s

, 2-s ---> Hidden pro-scum card
TWIE: 9-c,

5-c

,

MISSING 8-s

, claimed random picks ---> 9-c, Ace of clubs, actually missed out on either the ninja or godfather card

Scum decided to go deep undercover by picking a ton of towncards for towncred. It is just

too much of a coincidence

that 3 people decided to all pick one of the

objectively worst cards in the deck

. They got caught offguard both by the claim happy people and the fact that one of them missed out on one of the most obvious scumpicks. Vifam never could claim that he wanted to pick those cards to deny them to scum SINCE HE WAS LAST IN THE DRAFT. So either they had to sacrifice themselves straight away, or claim a card with the team that no town would ever pick. Vifam now again claimed a card that noone imo would ever pick, the 5 of clubs. I strongly suspects he's the one holding the Ace of clubs.

If im right the scum strategy is very straight forward with a simple thought process behind it. Pick pro-town cards for towncred, combined with plenty of defensive shit (Jack of clubs, 2-s, ninja/godfather) that makes you either very hard to lynch or make town not want to lynch you.

i assume you understand why this is really fucking stupid

Why dont you go ahead and explain why that is?

[Vecna]

Or him waiting to town it up untill now indicates he knows his team is screwed if he does get lynched so he gives it that extra bit of effort to avoid it.

[Vecna]

Also i think you mean the jack of spades surely?

[Vecna]

He wasnt my neighbour McMenno. Appears we will have 2 lynches today (unless for some reason a stealth vig card is in hiding but that seems unlikely). Also I mustve misread rb's earlier statement since I thought he claimed there were 5 persons in the diamonds hood, but I guess it mustve been 4 at gamestart with this flip.

[Vecna]

We havent had card-cops be active yet. Dave didnt out his cards in public or the club neighbourhood. I can honestly only see 4 things that couldve happened here:

Option A: My earlier theory regarding Math/spyrex/TWIE is correct, and theyre using this kill as a distraction while also getting rid of a card-cop that is going to be active tonight (the one they DO NOT control).

Option B: Dunnstral just did something very dumb and made his scumness super obvious while only a few people are scumreading him.

Option C: Combination of A+B, all 4 are scum and theyre sacrefising Dunn to get that sweet towncred for Mathblade and completely neutralize my earlier case against the trio mentioned under A.

Option D: Scum just took a big gamble by trying to hit in the people with unknown cards trying to hit Dunn's heart neighbourhood mate, got lucky and it paid off bigtime.

[Vecna]

If youre scumreading Dunn then its option B since he was in a neighbourhood together with Davesaz so he would KNOW that he gave the card to Dave and that Dave was the person with the yet unused Card revive.

[Vecna]

Mathblade, you dont understand the mechanics, there was no way to make a heart appear during the day besides by trusting on randomness (aka deck-shuffle)

[Vecna]

Because dunnstral saved him with his doctor card

[Vecna]

My neighbour just reminded me that Grey is in the Hearts neighbourhood as well.

Grey can you come in here please and confirm whether dave shared his cards in the hearts neighbourhood?

[Vecna]

What makes you say that Giga?

Also: agree with Maxous WRT giga. Please tone it down with claiming Giga is scum already. It makes zero sense and it detracts from the real hunt. The 2H is a death sentence for scum - both when a 2 comes or when a heart comes during the day and they have claimed the card (Which is 25% of the time, mind you, scum would never ever pick that card unless they like to play russian roulette every day).

[Vecna]

Quick phone post, more later

Massclaim is happening. PR outing means fuck all in a game where we have three widely town read powerful players for the scum to shoot. The players arguing against it have given no reasons worth a damn, and aren't the people thinking about the setup.

Also, scum tracker tracked Dunn to Dave. Obvs.

That was my first thought as well but:

6x Tracker [A] Track a player and find out who they target (if anyone). If used during the Day, you will receive results at the end of the phase.

[Vecna]

What makes you say that Giga?

Also: agree with Maxous WRT giga. Please tone it down with claiming Giga is scum already. It makes zero sense and it detracts from the real hunt. The 2H is a death sentence for scum - both when a 2 comes or when a heart comes during the day and they have claimed the card (Which is 25% of the time, mind you, scum would never ever pick that card unless they like to play russian roulette every day).

They have been manipulating it to where no hearts came up and lied about protecting Giga.

You must be seriously shitting me if you expect me to believe Town would revive the 2d. No. this was manufactured and Giga and Dunn are scum together.

It is very simple. Dunn revived two of diamonds. If anyone got it then problem solved just card cop Dunn.

Fish has confirmed that he received the 2-d from Dunn

[Vecna]

Noones saying dunn cannot possibly be scum Math (quite on the contrary after that kill). But you weaken your own case by continuously basing everything on false information and trying to incriminate Giga.

[Vecna]

The 2 of diamonds? I got it. That's how I got into that hood.

You can't be in the hood Diamonds aren't Trump

.........

7 of Diamonds?

Im getting tired of the continuous dumbtells.

[Vecna]

Dunn is in the hearts neighbourhood together with Grey
Dunn is in the clubs neighbouhood together with Giga

Yes.....very likely scumpicks. lets waste 4 cards on neighbourhoods just to wifom that theyre really really town.

You are scumreading all 3, no?

[Vecna]

Ok look at this - this is what im thinking is what is REALLY going on in this game:

Claimed cards:
Mathblade: J-c, 8-s, 2-s
Spyrex: 9-s, 8-s, 2-s
TWIE: 9-c, 5-c, MISSING 8-s, claimed random picks

Stuff we know:
-Maria picked a pro town card
-Some town early in the draft picked pro-scum cards to deny them to scum
-Several people have been die-hard advocates of claiming stuff starting very early.

What im suspecting is really going on:
Mathblade: J-c,

8-s

, 2-s ---> Hidden pro-scum card
Spyrex: 9-s,

8-s

, 2-s ---> Hidden pro-scum card
TWIE: 9-c,

5-c

,

MISSING 8-s

, claimed random picks ---> 9-c, Ace of clubs, actually missed out on either the ninja or godfather card

Scum decided to go deep undercover by picking a ton of towncards for towncred. It is just

too much of a coincidence

that 3 people decided to all pick one of the

objectively worst cards in the deck

. They got caught offguard both by the claim happy people and the fact that one of them missed out on one of the most obvious scumpicks. Vifam never could claim that he wanted to pick those cards to deny them to scum SINCE HE WAS LAST IN THE DRAFT. So either they had to sacrifice themselves straight away, or claim a card with the team that no town would ever pick. Vifam now again claimed a card that noone imo would ever pick, the 5 of clubs. I strongly suspects he's the one holding the Ace of clubs.

If im right the scum strategy is very straight forward with a simple thought process behind it. Pick pro-town cards for towncred, combined with plenty of defensive shit (Jack of clubs, 2-s, ninja/godfather) that makes you either very hard to lynch or make town not want to lynch you.

i assume you understand why this is really fucking stupid

Why dont you go ahead and explain why that is?

lol really? you want me to explain why this is one of the stupidest things ive ever read? sounds good.

its really fucking stupid because first of all. no scumteam is going to link 3 members of their team together early day 1 and then hope they never lynch any of them. especially when one of them is claiming to be double hated and must be lynched. because literally as soon as either of those people before me get lynched and dont have an 8s, im a free lynch.

second. no scum team is going to have 3 members of their team claim to have bid on the same card without knowing beforehand if anyone else in the game has a copy of it. 1 cc and thats potentially 2 free scum lynches.

third, you're aware that the cards we didnt pick didnt just fucking disappear into the nether. they went into the deck. you think that 3 people claimed to have a card that theres 2 copies of in the deck that can flip and cause 2/3 free lynches at any time? especially with people who can see several cards deep into the deck.

you literally think that a scum team took all of these major risks for the incredible payoff of not having to claim 1 of their 3 cards? because thats easier than just claiming you were trying to remove the card from the scum pool?

it literally makes no sense for vifam to ever claim to have not gotten the 8s without bidding on it.
it literally makes no sense for vifam to claim to have not gotten the 8s if he did recieve it.
it literally only makes sense for vifam to claim to have not gotten the 8s if he bid on and did not receive it.

its at this point that i fell like i should stop and remind you to breathe just in case you forgot while you were trying to read this because genuinely that was one of the stupidest things ive ever read.

Thank you for this response. The claimed cards appearing as trump argument is indeed a very valid argument. From what Ive seen from the players in question so far, I do not agree that the other arguments have that much merit. Id appreciate it if you start producing more quality posts like this, since you do apparently have the ability to.

[Vecna]

I'm aware I look bad with davesaz flipping, but it wasn't me and mathblade needs to die

I'd be ok with lynching gerry too, he hasn't been playing the game at all except to tunnel on me and he knew I had the 2 of diamonds the whole time yet doesn't want to claim his own cards

You state he doesnt want to claim his cards, but earlier you stated you KNEW he had the 4 of diamonds. How come you know its not the second copy of the 3 of diamonds?