Mini 540: Nightmare (Game Over)

[Holy]

/confirm

[Holy]

UNVOTE

VOTE: HOLY

Because I am holier than thou.

Lol! Lets slay the dragon together

Unvote. Vote: thedragonsprincess

We'll purify your evil... bad breadth

[Holy]

Why would you vote along with someone who you don't understand?

I wasn't voting with disciple slayer, i was voting gemelli for starting the series of events which lead to the statement which resulted in my confusion.

Which event? I didn't see it. I saw him voting DS for being overeager, thats it.

[Holy]

Why would you vote along with someone who you don't understand?

I wasn't voting with disciple slayer, i was voting gemelli for starting the series of events which lead to the statement which resulted in my confusion.

Roffman, is this supposed to be a serious Vote?

no, it wasn't a serious vote. I just got so confused from what was going on that i voted for Gemelli seeing as his was the last post that made any sense.

Yeah I thought so too, if it was a serious vote from you just because you're confused, well that was a bad reason indeed.

[Holy]

Well, I play with him in other thread, in there his last post was on 9th Dec. I guess he's just not playing

[Holy]

Disciple Slayer, is there a reason why I should jump on the thedragonsprincess' bandwagon and not the wagon that's formed against you? If my math is correct (it is often not) you both have 3 votes. If we are going to random bandwagon to victory why should I randomly choose hers and not yours?

Because I am awesome and she's not.

While i agree that is a good reason, could u elaborate on what quality makes you more "awesome" than thedragonprincess, otherwise i might be forced to join the wagon against you

Anyone... Please feel forced to join roffman wagon with me.

Unvote. Vote: roffman.

[Holy]

Disciple Slayer, is there a reason why I should jump on the thedragonsprincess' bandwagon and not the wagon that's formed against you? If my math is correct (it is often not) you both have 3 votes. If we are going to random bandwagon to victory why should I randomly choose hers and not yours?

Because I am awesome and she's not.

While i agree that is a good reason, could u elaborate on what quality makes you more "awesome" than thedragonprincess, otherwise i might be forced to join the wagon against you

Why roffman?

What's the point in following others random bandwagon if yourself didn't even sure that they're the scum. Looks like a masked move for me, which is scummy.

[Holy]

What's the point in following others random bandwagon if yourself didn't even sure that they're the scum. Looks like a masked move for me, which is scummy.

ATM, i don't really have a scum read on anyone. All i really have going currently is just an extention of the random voting stage. Hence why i joined i postulated joining a "random" bandwagon.

Meh. Whether you're telling an awful truth or just an excusing scumbag.

[Holy]

I'm not sure about DS. It's more silly than scummy. Or might be a silly scum, lol.

I'll be on holiday until the 26th. Happy holidays all!

[Holy]

It's too soon to lynch anyone.

And I'm not proposing a DS lynch. I am asking if the majority of players find him scummy. If so, we should lynch him and not dither around with vigilantes and whatnot.

At first, I thought: Why ask? Did you seek an agreement?

And then,

Why do you think he is innocent. There have been many questionable comments he has made so far this game.

True. But he's also my mason partner. We're confirmed innocent.

Followed by,

Rishi is right, were both masons.

... whoa!? Wait..what? The claim really made my suspicion towards both of you shaken out.

I felt a bit off after read that early claim. And then I thinking through about the possibility you're scumpartners with roffman, and I guess that will make your claim a very stupid move. Because if you both indeed the scum, and one of you is lynched and revealed as scum, that would be the same as confirming the other partner as the other scum. Which is unlikely a scum move IMHO, so

Unvote

.

Even if they are telling the truth, what good are outed masons? If we lynch one and they come up mason, then the other one will be a confirmed pro-town. Either we go into day two with a confirmed townie or the scum uses their nightkill on a now-useless powerrole.

I'm not sure I believe this claim anyway. I like my vote right where it is.

Yeah, but if we really lynch one and they come up mason? How if after that -the came up mason lynch- and then the other one is NK-ed, that would be sucks. After all, I didn't really believe that claim likely came from a scum (WIFOM yeah, but I'll trust my gut once in a while).
So, your believe for your vote seems persistently nonsense for me.

Vote: Lulubelle

.

vote: Holy

, has been a bit lurkerish with not much content. Not the most solid of votes, but it looks like we've hit a brick wall with the Rishi-roffman claim.

I'll be on holiday until the 26th. Happy holidays all!

Yeah right..., lurking.

[Holy]

Heh. Actually, Rishi, that was the reaction I was hoping for from you.

Unvote

Vote: Lulubelle

I'm not yet satisfied with putting Roffman at L-1, but I'm not going to leave you at L-1 either.

Because we can't unvote in this game. Like I said, I'm not yet willing to put my vote on Roffman, so leaving it on me will do for now.

Who says I don't? I only said I didn't believe it because I wanted to push Rishi a little harder and see what sort of reaction I got from him, and he said a few things that I don't believe scum would have pointed out in such a situation. I took my vote off because I consider Rishi's response to be sincere.

I was planning on re-digesting the thread with a fresh outlook to see if I can't fish any clues from the way things have been going down once I get a non-busy day.

Heh..., catching up so much makes me mixed up the current state of your vote
Hmm I want to know more about your thoughts after your re-digesting first, and I'll see later if my vote stays or moved.

[Holy]

Also, I realized if roffman was lynched, and you found out he was a mason, that it would be very suspect if I claimed Mason on Day 2. Again, I think that there are enough wild cards in this game that you all would believe that roffman's mason partner might be keeping quiet.

Basically, masons are somewhat pointless. The big power of masons is to be able to confirm each other. I wanted to do that while roffman and I were both here. The reason that power roles shouldn't claim on Day 1 is because they risk being targeted by the Mafia. I don't think losing a couple masons is a big deal.

You could have claimed something mundane like a vanilla if he went down. If you're getting strung up Day Two for your Day One play and the only thing you have is the uber suspect Mason claim, then try to wriggle clean on a do-nothing role. Still might end up hung, but without the added scrutiny.

Once outed, Masons are just Night Talking vanillas, but later in the game, they can swing things if they've kept their existence secret.

Seems like half convinced for the claim from Rishi.

So you're content to vote away Rishi with what we know now?

Seems like a bait question asking agreement about Rishi's claim.

unvote, vote: Rishi

Why?

This is why I asked you who you thought are the "wild cards." Since two of three of your wild cards were already voting and roffman at L-3, the concern that roffman would be lynched without being offered an opportunity to claim just does not seem like a legitimate one.

And seems like a sudden change of heart for me.


So gorckat, actually what is your

current

opinion about the claim and about Rishi, clearly please?

I find that, if people find a particular player scummy, then it doesn't matter what their claim is, they're going to lynch the person anyway.

If you don't believe my claim, then lynch me.

Well true, mostly I saw a claim not really considered true but a fraud and still end up with his/her lynch. But we still could use logic about whether it might came really from scum or not.

You can't just ask questions and not reach any conclusions.

Well, what about opie then? He's said a fair bit since coming back, but no real positions on who's scummy. However, the points he's bringing up regarding "wild cards" are interesting and meaningful contribution imo.

Uhm, and what about you, could you share some more meaningful contribution too for us then?

Because we can't unvote in this game. Like I said, I'm not yet willing to put my vote on Roffman, so leaving it on me will do for now.

I guess I'll wait for her said re-digest thing to measure more what her believes are before re-thinking to re-vote.

[Holy]

I was uncertain about Rishi's initial claim, but it does seem completely reckless for a mason to out themselves and a partner Day One.

I'm leaning towards not believing it because Rishi contradicted herself on the wildcard thing. Like opie said- why was she concerned about the wildcards when 2 of them were already on Roffman?

Okay, I can see your point, thank you.
I tend to buy his claim for now, mostly because I doubt the possibility the scum would out themselves this early with that kind of 'strategy'.

Well true, mostly I saw a claim not really considered true but a fraud and still end up with his/her lynch. But we still could use logic about whether it might came really from scum or not.

Could you clarify this?

I was commenting about his doubts/concerns whether if the masons claim late will they be believed and won't be lynched...

Official Vote Count, editted in by MikeBurnFire
7 votes needed to lynch

3 Lulubelle (Lulubelle, Disciple Slayer, Holy)
2 pete d (opie, farside22)
2 Rishi (thedragonsprincess, gorckat)
1 skitzer (skitzer)
1 thedragonprincess (Rishi)
1 Disciple Slayer (roffman)
1 Draux (Draux)
1 Holy (pete d)

[Holy]

I'm leaning towards not believing it because Rishi contradicted herself on the wildcard thing. Like opie said- why was she concerned about the wildcards when 2 of them were already on Roffman?

Looking back, concern for the 'wildcards' flipping makes sense. I'd forgotten

both

of you were at 4 votes.

Yep, I already thought you were distracted with opie's posts (@opie: good point, btw) and forgot about that situation totally. And I saw your resoluteness for your believe/reason to vote Rishi at that time, at least you stated it clearly for me

[Holy]

@opie: Hmm roffman.., my first case against him, that I thought he is unnecessary confused at the random stage, which is odd for me, but I dropped that. The second case occurs when he told us that he might join a wagon with a reason similar said by you (opie) which is more like an individual reason from you, which is oddly followed by roffman, I didn't like it. And after that came the masons claim. Bang!
The Lulubelle case actually doesn't seem like a scum case anymore for me after I read her last post again, and because I didn't think she's in a bandwagon danger, so I just let my vote sit there for a moment.
But for now, I think Lulubelle need to be prod as well as Draux.

[Holy]

I hate trying to decipher what a blow up means.

Yep, me too, it's more of a null-tell for me.


You know what, there's something I noticed that I really didn't like. A cute mousy found to replace tdp so soon, is that means that the mod already prod Draux but he still lurking...

Unvote. Vote: Draux.

[Holy]

That "post" by DS is really unhelpfull (indigestible for me), but with many people pressured him, I want to hear his explanation first before I cast judgement on his behavior (assuming he will be back again soon).
I don't know if he is just an ass or really an ass-scum before hear his words more.

And about Draux, I didn't do a meta on him. I'll give him a couple of days more (before I re-review his lurkiness), waiting the explanation from himself.

[Holy]

Also, when you described Rishi, it would have appeared more scummy if you would have pointed out her faults instead of just saying "mason partner"

Hey, you noticed that too ("her faults") (okay.., I'm still sane then).
If he wasn't claiming a mason together with roffman, I doubt that I'd do a second thought on him.
And for now, yeah...I'm quite content with my vote on Draux.

[Holy]

Ahh, I see.., hasn't picked up it at all..

[Holy]

I heartily disagree that people should jump on the most probable bandwagon (except in the case of a deadline).

Not to derail things too far, but the discussion in MD over fear of being wrong leading to slow/replacement riddled games is encouraging me to be even more aggressive (assuming a 9/3 split with no other kills, town wins with a 50% hit rate).

Hmm, I mostly found that 1st day is usually long and so riddled for me. I really wish I got a nightmare in here when I joined. Or maybe it won't happen before the first day/night, I guess.

Since Draux has not picked up his prod yet and it's been almost two weeks, I will begin looking for a replacement

So are the people voting Draux going to unvote now?

Why should you so concerned about his position?

Holy's vote for Roffman in 74 feels pretty out-of-place.

Not really, it's more because I thought he just making an excuse to bandwagon someone. On a full re-read - with a fresh look (after many people questioned this over and over again, yeah.. this slacker doing a re-read ), I can sense he just wanted DS to be more explicit with his posts (i.e. to be more helpful) at that time. Soon after that, he found out that probably he won't ever got any helpful posts at all from him and decided to vote him anyway just to avoid him being stress. Thus alarmed my earlier suspicions at that time (that he just making excuses for an easy lynch, i.e. DS), and made me quite satisfied with his lynch before the mason claim came out.

Wow. Rishi/Roffman masons? I'm honestly at a loss for words.
What are your rolenames?
Rishi, is Roffman's innocence guaranteed?
Roffman, is Rishi's innocence guaranteed?

Nice questions!

I may be looking through some OMGUS-tinted glasses, but Holy's attitude towards Draux seems vaguely hypocritical.

When some people began to accuse Draux as lurkerish and then votes were on his way to make him speak, I was still neutral about him. It seems like the holiday seasons was still on the way or maybe he just busy.
Players consecutively asked a Draux prod.
And then tdp blew up and asked to be replaced, her replacements found soon. My thought was, if tdp's replacements was found so soon, why not Draux being replaced too, I thought maybe he wasn't replaced because he

already picked his prod but still lurking on purpose.

And I voted him for my suspicion of his lurking on purpose.
Angelmouse then said that he was appeared in other thread explaining that he was busy. Okay.., but days after that he still didn't showed up in here, that just confirmed my suspicions until the mod explained that he didn't picked up his prod at all. Meh!

I would be interested to see skitzer and angelmouse create an assess-every-player post, since they haven't really committed to any concrete positions on other players. Holy should probably do one as well.

Lets see:

pete d

> He doesn't sound his thoughts actively throughout the game, only appeared occasionally enough so everyone won't call him for lurking too long, and when appears his post is quite long but not really helpful IMO. He's concerned about the current votes on Draux (yeah, me only). Leaning scum for his way of play.

Glork/Draux

> Not much I can tell about Draux, but I like Glork's posts especially about the masons thing, quite insightful.
For that insightful point,

Unvote, vote: pete d

.

Skitzer

> He's too neutral about others, when he does vote someone soon enough he'll unvote him/her, hard to predict which way his intention was. Leaning scum.

Disciple Slayer

> A destructive player. After my full re-read some of his posts seem screaming asking to be lynch, made me think might be there's a jester in this setup. Might be a jester or purely an ass.

roffman

> Stressed by DS's acts. Claiming mason. I like his effort to analyze things, especially after his hiatus.

Rishi

> Claiming mason, but his choice of words sometimes made me raised my eyebrows.

farside22

> Actively searching scum with well reasoned suspicions.

opie

> Sound his thoughts and concerns actively. I like the way he's playing. Leaning town.

gorckat

> Actively searching scum under his own suspicions. I'm still watching him to found out more insight about his play.

Lulubelle

> Earlier, I casted my suspicions toward her, her explanation seems legit about it. She's not really outspoken lately.

tdp/angelmouse

> I honestly think that tdp's actually searching scum based on her own suspicions, I saw nothing wrong with that. Her replacement, angelmouse, is better at sounding her own concerns. I like her conclusion so far.

[Holy]

Secondly, the role name is "the pitcher". Mod has confirmed innocence.

On you both?

[Holy]

^and wow! Glork iS awesome ('-') (._.) ('-') (._.) (nod nod)

My role PM calls me a mason. It also calls me "The Catcher" but I have no idea what that means.

Lol! Pitcher and catcher, an inseparable pair.

The PM doesn't say if we're confirmed, so I PMed MBF before the game began, and he told us we were confirmed innocent.

Okay..

Hmm. Does everyone have baseball names in their role PMs? You don't have to say what it is, but I'm just curious.

Nope.

[Holy]

Wow, Holy is really trying to get on your good side.

We'll see, Shrine Priest...

Holy, I don't understand the beginning of Post 302. What do the quotes from Rishi and gorckat have to do with what you said just after?

O yeah sorry, my writings wasn't connected well for others to understand.

Rishi sounded his disagreement with jumping on "hot" wagon hastily when no deadline is set. That's true but somehow it prevents a progress (we still can avoid wild cards hammer by our unvote before a claim made/clues gathered from the suspect), we should try our best to gather clues before the deadline occurs to prevent chaos or a scum sneak on the deadline chaos wagon. If we continues thinking that there's no deadline anyway at the moment, we'll be slack and unready. Thus will make the scum easily hides and take opportunities when the deadline is near, which is bad.
And gorckat sounded that a too slow and riddled game lead him to be a more aggressive player. I felt that this game is quite riddled too on this day 1 (with the early masons claim [which is somehow confirmed] and a jester probability [which is still my speculation]) and hoping maybe on the next day, all will be clearer. I don't know...

He doesn't sound his thoughts actively throughout the game, only appeared occasionally enough so everyone won't call him for lurking too long, and when appears his post is quite long but not really helpful IMO.

lol hypocrisy

Yep!
Vice versa

So seeing how Glork is so wonderfully insightful and I'm a scummy lurker, how come we both have very similar suspicions?

Not really, my read on him is still not much (I'm still analyzing him), while mine on you.. well.. my suspicions plus I add that cynical vibe of you too ;.;

[Holy]

@Holy:

Your vote and comment did come across as OMGUS against pete.

I honestly think that his involvement wasn't really flowing.

@Rishi

Your comment about Holy tring to get on Glorks good side seemed to imply you feel she is scum. I'm just curious to know where you stand on this subject.

Not necessarily, but it was something worth pointing out. Maybe she's just trying to get Glork to remove his vote. Or maybe she genuinely likes Glork's analysis and didn't realize she was sucking up to him. Lots of explanations.

Yep, I liked the way he's boldly voiced his analysis, it doesn't mean I already put him on 'probably Town' list, he just joined, I'm still watching him (Recalling that Draux was a bit unreadable and end up MIA).


@pete d: Hello...! Your unvote won't be count if you don't re-vote again, sigh...

[Holy]

I don't have a problem with claiming.

I'm a dancer. It's the same thing as a roleblocker.

I'm still working on my assess every player post.

You know...Skitzie, I can't see any relation at all between a dancer as a roleblocker, lol. But, I can wait your big post too for more revelation.

[Holy]

@farside22: Do you honestly believe that we shouldn't have a coincidentally same suspect with the facts that laid to read.
Well, maybe you can explain to me why the hell bandwagons in general could happen in that case...

[Holy]

The only difference is Skitzer hasn't changed his vote.

Hm yeah, you're right about that.

[Holy]

@opie: Honestly, lately I didn't feel him (pete d) very scummy because I found him more actively sounding his thoughts, that made me feel knew him a little better than before, but I just can't rubbed away my earlier gut that easy. And now he's on VLA, I don't think I could gather more info about him at the moment to make sure about my gut.

And I relieved that DS is replaced, his "post" really made me confused, that kind of post seems just scream like 'please lynch me' for me. I really hope the replacement is more sane than DS.

About skitzer, his claim still didn't give a clue about which side he is for me, and because the most scummiest person for me is skitzer atm, I prefer to

Unvote, Vote: Skitzer

.

[Holy]

Holy

Rereading her posts, I've noticed she likes to put a big quote and add a few comments. This doesn't really mean anything either way. Just something I noticed. She was really pushing a roffman bandwagon in a situation that I didn't think was necessary. Also jumping on Lulubelle seemed odd to me. I'm far from sure that she is scum, but some of her posts and votes just don't sit well with me.

That quote is from my player by player analysis. The two people I indicated I was suspicious of was skitzer, Holy and thedragonprincess. So I have displayed "anti Holy vibes" before now. In fact I was the second to do so.

You were the second after pete d I assume, seek an approval or a partnership backup?
I guess as far as I can recall, just because I suspect pete d and you disagree with it, you began to hunt me.
I really suspect a connection now, not before at all.

[Holy]

Well, I'm a firestarter, not a really helpful role though.

[Holy]

Basically, whoever hammer me will die with me.
A vengeful death >.>

[Holy]

My latest note update and concerns:
Lulubelle still hasn't presents her case towards her top suspect (mousy) to us. Although you didn't want to distract us from the deadline lynch, I still think it's better to present your case now than later.

Opie, seems hesitant to hammer me. I also noticed that lately when Opie built his cases he seems like following the trend, shown from his timing when he did those which feels kind of odd for me.

Skitzer, to make sure about him we still can gather more knowledge about him (his behaviour) tomorrow and hopefully informed with his roleblock info, and analyze further which side he might be actually.

pete d (note: post #406), he just riding along the discussion just like that. What actually he's thinking still vague for me. My gut still tingling towards him.

Nocmen, proved as a sane player. Fishing for Lulubelle's role on post #383. I didn't like it much.

Unvote. Vote: Opie.

[Holy]

@opie: I noticed your

timing

, that's why I voted you. At first you randomly vote pete d, and then after you did your PBPA (and confirming again lately that your top suspect since that time is Skitzer, Holy, thedragonprincess), you unvoted your random vote and vote yourself instead one of your top suspect for such quite a long time though. You didn't try quite enough pushing your case against them all until just lately, seems like didn't want to be seen too stand out for it.

[Holy]

EBWOP: *seems like didn't want to be seen too stand out for bringing a case, but you did this when a deadline already near, that will only bring a hasty judgment towards your case(s) IMO.

[Holy]

@Lulubelle: My gap(s) are almost the same on every games I play on MS, and in general I only visit the forum once a day.

@Mod:

I have unvote and vote opie on post #408.

Mod note: Fixed it.

I'm not really impressed with opie's new PBPA anyway.

[Holy]

^Not sweat the small stuff?! You just not really try finding scum, are you?

IGMEOY

[Holy]

oops, I meant that to refer post #449 on Gorckat post.

[Holy]

Egh, I'm almost chocked when I read opie's claiming, this is almost like a trend.
Hm, giving pleasant dream doesn't seem like a scum alignment for me.

Unvote. Vote: Skitzer.

I need more info from you Skitzie.

If Rishi didn't get his dream last night, maybe Skitzer blocked opie? If not who did you blocked? Or you weren't allowed to block on Night 0 because it was a "No-death" night?

[Holy]

I won't say that as "small stuff", for me it all are clues, so you just ignored if a particular player did something just unrighteous? Between 5 or 1 reason(s), if that 1 reason feels heavy enough as a reason to vote him/her than the 5-small-reasons suspect, why not though.

[Holy]

@gorckat: That's okay gorckat, and I do feel sorry for your dog. I once too have a dog, and since she's died, I don't feel like to have another one again, well maybe I should...

[Holy]

Okay sorry folks there's roughly ~18 hours left, I don't know if Skitzer'll have a chance to answer my doubts, if within ~6 hours from now this town still on this stagnant state, I will hammer myself because I truly think it's better if we have a discussion progress for tomorrow instead a no-lynch result, I guess.

UNVOTE. VOTE: opie.

[Holy]

I fell asleep.


:p


Ah~ this is hurts~ ;_;

[Holy]

good job scum.

my night kill was either gorckat or farside, but i accidentlly pm'ed the wrong name . I would never have picked glork as scummy, his fakery just seemed like way to much effort to pull off.

L O L !

Official Vote Count
7 votes needed to lynch

7 Holy (Glork, farside22, pete d, Nocmen, gorckat, Rishi, Lulubelle)
3 opie (roffman, angelmouse, Holy)
1 gorckat (opie)
1 pete d (skitzer)

Everybody surrounds Holy as she pleads her case. Glork grabs her and holds her down while farside22 ties her arms and legs...

Btw MBF, I like my death scene XD
Not much comment.., remembering I was scum in here, and I died early, lol.
And Glork, ah~ Glork, how could you betrayed me.. :p

[Holy]

Uhuh, I must say..It broke my heart when my sweet-angelmouse was lynched, while I saw she was mentioning a good case 'bout pete'd-Glork thing :p

[Holy]

Luls, it would be interesting to develop that probability, from the scum point of view of course, bwahaha!