New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

HERE'S TO MY LOVE!
O TRUE APOTHECARY!
THY DRUGS ARE QUICK. THUS, WITH A KISS, I DIE.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

HERE'S TO MY LOVE!
O TRUE APOTHECARY!
THY DRUGS ARE QUICK. THUS, WITH A KISS, I DIE.

You.
I like you.

Shall we offer BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Tis you or bust milady, I intended to ask you to dance once I had noticed you were playing, and once you were IC'd...well, I don't think I could bear to live with the disappointment were you to choose another.

Lol this post.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

HERE'S TO MY LOVE!
O TRUE APOTHECARY!
THY DRUGS ARE QUICK. THUS, WITH A KISS, I DIE.

You.
I like you.

Shall we offer BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD?

Sounds kinky.

So let it be written; so let it be done.

Inspectorscout, oh won't you accept a dance with the devil on the death floor? We shall embrace till the very end, and let blood fill this ebony hall.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I don't know if fakegod would be willing to do a 3/0 or 0/3 but I'd guess it's pretty unlikely at the very least.

???

It's not about what he wants if he's random.orging the player list.

He didn't mention any restriction on who could be scum.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

HERE'S TO MY LOVE!
O TRUE APOTHECARY!
THY DRUGS ARE QUICK. THUS, WITH A KISS, I DIE.

You.
I like you.

Shall we offer BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD?

Sounds kinky.

So let it be written; so let it be done.

Inspectorscout, oh won't you accept a dance with the devil on the death floor? We shall embrace till the very end, and let blood fill this ebony hall.

I kind of want to, but it's too soon.
Show me your

dancing

scumhunting skills and we'll see.

Sure, I'll start with you.

Do you think scum are more likely to quick pair or wait a bit?

Also what do you think about people who started their posts with setup speculation?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also ftr,

My lovers PT will be a deep interrogation thread,

I hope no one comes in expecting roses and daises.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I don't know if fakegod would be willing to do a 3/0 or 0/3 but I'd guess it's pretty unlikely at the very least.

???

It's not about what he wants if he's random.orging the player list.

He didn't mention any restriction on who could be scum.

If it's totally random then it's pretty unlikely to be 0/3 or 3/0 (10-20% odds?). If it's something that he won't allow at all, then it's 0%. Either way, if we have two lady wolf flips, the lady is PROBABLY a dude and vice versa.

???

10-20% is unlikely? Wtf.

Also my point was he mentioned NOTHING of not allowing 3 gentlemen or ladies scum. So you start with useless speculation.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

end the setup speculation immediately, jesus christ

Yeah... no. mh is not dodging that garbage opening that quickly.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

For the morons who don't bother reading anything.

1. Game name
   - New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball
   
2. Flavor
   - Summer Waltz
   
3. Number of players
   - 17
   
4. Are hydras allowed (Yes/No)
   - No
   
5. Your modding experience
   - Summer Waltz
   
6. Current modding commitments
   - None
   
7. Reviewers
   - None
   
8. Reviewers agreed to FINAL version? (Yes/No)
   - Yes
   
9. Backup or co-mod
   - GuyInFreezer
   
10. Backup or co-mod's experience
    - Many including multiple Large Theme games
    
11. Backup or co-mod's commitments
    - Mini Theme
    
12. Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions,

    un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No)

    - No,

Making it 3/0 in whatever gender's favour would surely making it bastard.

Are you fucking high.

Manipulating random.org to force a non 3-0 would make it bastard...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

GUYS
WE HAVE TWO SCUMGENTS AND ONE SCUMLADY

@mod: is the amount of scum ladies/gents exactly the same as last time or is it randomized?

It was randomized last setup, and it's randomized this setup.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Do you want me to break down sentence structure for you.

Because what you said is arguing against the possibility of a 3-0.

Pedit: @Shadow.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@SAD actually stop

Idgaf about setup speculation.

I DO give a fuck about people who started with setup speculation.

It really was not a hard setup to read, so anyone trying to make the setup more complicated or start discussing it has huge red flags.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

See like this is the stuff I'm talking about:

Wot, how is it an open setup then? Surely it's a semi-open setup if the roles are only partially known?

What roles? What are you talking about.

It's a purely vanilla game.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

See like this is the stuff I'm talking about:

Wot, how is it an open setup then? Surely it's a semi-open setup if the roles are only partially known?

What roles? What are you talking about.

It's a purely vanilla game.

There are four roles.
Male town
Male scum

Female town
Female scum

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

hello im special

I'm special in the head too dw.

If you think about it,

everyone is crazy. Crazy people just admit, while other refuse to believe it.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

LOL

I like how mh goes quite when mod confirmed setup randomized and he no longer has anything to discuss.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

So basically we lynch Jester, cerb, Shadow and win.
Easy game, easy money.

Shadow
mh

I haven't payed any attention to the other too except for cerb's godawful post.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

To everyone: I will NOT be dancing with anyone except Nahdia.

LOL

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

LOL

I like how mh goes quite when mod confirmed setup randomized and he no longer has anything to discuss.

I took a shower actually. Your aggressive shading is noted though.

If you need help to have a non garbage opening I'll help you out to buddy.

Here is what you do:

Take a random post in the thread. Call it scummy.

Take another random post in the thread. Call it townie.

You then go into your scum PT and make sure you tell Shadow to do the same exact thing.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Oh my god I don't know if I'll manage to keep up with that kind of volume. I hope this game will quiet down once we're all assigned dance PTs and relocate some of the spam out there.

Honestly,

I kinda signed up for this because I love larges but didn't think I'd have enough time for a 20+ player game.

I didn't except this kind of level, I'm now afraid I won't have enough time to catch up with main thread + PT esp with a spammer lover. BUT I am kinda contributing to the activity, but it's my day off so there's that.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

hey uhm...
People have yet to die. stay nice.

@ser arthur: Does your dance request still stand?

Sure.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

But seriously,

I will be treating my lover with the same (if not more) scrutiny.

Pedit: @inspector

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

But seriously,

I will be treating my lover with the same (if not more) scrutiny.

Pedit: @inspector

Why do you keep repeating this?

What benefit is there to scum knowing in advance that a pt with you won't simply be a nice place to chat?

Because I'm ultimately trying to dodge pairing with a scum?

What the fuck obv my end goal is to match with a townie so it's easier to win. And I will destroy scum if they're in a PT with me so there's that.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@ser arthur: I think that, if you want to be the only person asking questions, you chose the wrong date.

OH BABY

I will be giving as much as I'm taking.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Why are you trying to dodge pairing with a scum? If you'll destroy them in a PT, it's much more beneficial to town if you pair with scum, lead them on until lylo, and then simply remove them and give us the win.

Nope, I think removing/suiciding is extremely anti-town.

I'm not confident in my reads enough to remove myself.

HOWEVER, I do want a bloc where I can coordinate pushes so I can get better pressure on people etc, and I can do that better with someone who I think is townie.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ser Arthur Dayne, I accept your request. Let's begin our danse macabre until our undying love is seperated by scarlet blood.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

SKULLS FOR THE THRONE OF KHORNE.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

pedit: I agree that the removing thing is...generally bad play. However, you're essentially removing a tool from your box, as it were, by deliberately making it less likely scum will pair with you. Your town bloc argumetn? That's one slot.

Well it's doubling the pushes, etc, so puts A LOT more pressure on people.

Now it is mostly a playstyle thing, but I did try to use my abrasive playstyle to dodge getting matched with a scum. I think scum are less likely to pair with me if they think I will be even more interrogating towards them, when they can coast easily with another lover.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

pedit: @Parama: You mean we all need to learn to wear our tinfoil hats and jump at every shadow?(yes, that was deliberate, I'm so sorry)

Hmm?

I get the feeling you're so against pressure or something. Can't tell if it is a playstyle thing. There's nothing wrong with super early pushes. Plus it's super easy to get reads from a different setup than normal because usually the people who try to look like they're pro-town with their posts ultimately are people who are trying to coast on useless posts as sucm. Derailing these early pushes is not gonna help town.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

This feels like a rerun of this game. ISO Jester there and tell me if you still think he's scum.

Your defending of jester is giving me a huge bad vibe from your pairing btw.

Do you regret matching up with him?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm gonna go to chess tourney now, hopefully won't be a billion posts when I get back huehue.

Pedit: No it actually feels like you're scum who matched up with a townie who's now getting scumread and now you're scared.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Nice 13 pages!

What is this post?

Literally duck and dive?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

ok well there's no reason to keep quiet anymore

I thought Cerberus was town for proposing to Nahdia, other people seemed to have a weird notion that scum would want to be paired with the ic... they wouldn't, they have a factional kill and if they're stuck with the ic everyone's going to question why the ic didn't die

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ftr I do like Cerb's recent posts and think he is thinking from a town mindset.

However that is such a garbage reason to townread him on.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Anyway I'm actually extremely happy with my partner choice.

Parama is reading town. Her interaction with shadow reads genuine and "passionate", which I largely associate to town. Though she's jumping in an abrasive way at things, but who the fuck am I to talk I have an obnoxious playstyle too.
HS is reading town also. Her playstyle largely resembles townie stream-of-consciousness posting. I'm a bit ~paranoid~ of her because if she's scum and can imitate townie thinking this strongly then she will be very hard to take down.
Kagami leaning town for her question to Shadow. I think scum would be much more content with just lurking in the back and letting Shadow getting the boot. And if they are both scum together then I don't think she would word it in such an off-handed way.
Cerb leaning town as I said. I think he has some good genuine posts like the reation to nadhia accepting his dance. He's logical and straightforward in his posts, seems like he truly believes what he's saying. His 295 to Shadow was also extremely townie.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@sadboy got any scumreads though lol

Mhsmith, Shadow, Dunn.
Kinda MDS and Vedith? (I'm really really torn on the way MDS is playing)

I want to see one of those first 3 not get a partner.

Admittedly sickofit has like 1 post, but since he's gentlemen I think he would be working harder to get a partner seeing as he could be left in the dust. Whereas take Vedith, who's like guaranteed a partner, she can post a 1 liner and then lurk the rest of pre-dance and coast hardcore af.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Mhsmith, Shadow, Dunn.
Kinda MDS and Vedith? (I'm really really torn on the way MDS is playing)

I want to see one of those first 3 not get a partner.

bad reads

Speaking of bad reads:

btw pretty sure cerberus is town

Will explain more later

ok well there's no reason to keep quiet anymore

I thought Cerberus was town for proposing to Nahdia, other people seemed to have a weird notion that scum would want to be paired with the ic... they wouldn't, they have a factional kill and if they're stuck with the ic everyone's going to question why the ic didn't die

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Did anyone ask me to dance yet?

LOL this post.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

How is that bad?

Because unless it is your first game I expect you to understand the concept of WIFOM.

Do you disagree?

With the "logic" (and I'm gonna use that term very loosely) you presented? Yes, very much.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

It's wifom to pair up with the ic and then for scum to not kill the ic?Why wouldn't they just pair up with someone else if they had the chance (which he certainly had) and not become super suspected and have to claim being framed

No, it's WIFOM to assume scum wouldn't wanna pair up with the conftown.

The otherhand of WIFOM, what if scum deliberately leave a townie-conftownie pairing? Are you blindly lynching just because the pairing escaped the nightkill?

I'm lynching w/e person ser is with lol

Now now... jealously is ugly. I'm sorry I chose someone else and now you're stuck with the likes of dunn and shadow to choose from

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Oh look, someone that thinks their post matter.
Keep up the effort, kiddo.

you and shadow would be perfect for each other to be honest

I'll take Shadow. We understand one enough.
Shadow - offer yourself to me!

Please let this happen.

Excellent day 1 lynch.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

but actually don't we need shadow to flip scum in pre-dance not first dance

Not really.

We can hit 2 birds 1 stone.

If scum are desperate enough that they didn't get a partner early on then we scrape through the pile in the gutter for ez game ez life.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

The saying is easy game easy money.
EZ life, this kid!

No I'm pretty sure the saying is ez game ez life in the gaming community like literally the million search results you could've went through on google.

But it's k you can continue your useless posts.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

like literally though what's the benefit of intentionally letting one scum live just to try to get a 2-scum pairing the next day

why not just

kill the scum in pre-dance

Because if a scum pairs up with a largely townie read person people will be more hesitant to lynch the pairing?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I leave for a few hours.

A million pages.

And ONE job to leave out mhsmith/shadow/dunn.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I don't have any form of town read on MDS.

What do you think of her weird defense of Jester?

I can't make out if that's townie super arrogantly confident she can read a friend or scum who's scum pretending she's arrogant while scared she was going to go down Day 1 because Jester was getting scumread super hard.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Vote: Vedith

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I think Maria reads townie near the end of predance.

It's too bad she paired with the scummiest person on the planet.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I think Maria reads townie near the end of predance.

It's too bad she paired with the scummiest person on the planet.

OK Why not vote Shadow then?

I think Maria reads townie near the end of predance.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I think Maria reads townie near the end of predance.

It's too bad she paired with the scummiest person on the planet.

OK Why not vote Shadow then?

I think Maria reads townie near the end of predance.

What's your reads on me and Vedith then?

You mostly read null though there's huge gaps of your posts that I barely remember.

Vedith needs to be sacrificed to the blood god like asap.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Sooo many posts holy. Like 90% of those were just a mud slinging contest and I'm seriously not sitting through that bullshit every time I come to this thread to catch up.

Here's a quick tier list of where I'm at:

Nahdia
Parama, inspectorscout, Human Sequencer, Cerberus v666
Kagami, pieguyn, MariaR
Gamma Emerald, The_Jester
MiniDeathStar, Dunnstral, mhsmith0
Shadow_step, Vedith

Some notes:

- Need to ISO Jester and Gamma. I MIGHT (mighttttttttttt) be willing to ISO Vedith hundred fucking obnoxious posts.
- MDS's post 888 might be contender for worst single post in the whole thread.
- I like pieguyn right now literally for being logical and coherent in her posts. She could be scum and I would be happy to keep her for now because at least I enjoy reading her posts (as opposed to other people *cough*)
- Parama saying she was going to sleep and she didn't wanna come back to too many posts literally made me wanna punch a wall. Seriously anyone who's town and spamming the thread this much needs to realize they are benefiting scum a lotttttt more than town.
- Dunn seriously has the most posts but prob one of the lowest content in his posts. Being useless in the open to look like he's putting in ~effort~ and being ~helpful~.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

You're stuck in a tunnel with regard to me. So why do you care what I think? The other thing is when town is hyper posting scum find it very hard to blend in. Doesn't happen with everyone. But it does.

Yes everyone hyper posting has to be town

How about you help us dense people in the crowd by going to your scum PT and copying and pasting the other two scum so you make it easier for us dull witted people?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay new plan.

I only talk in the PT and inspector relays my thoughts so I no longer have to deal with some of the obnoxious people in this thread.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

SAD I've already said if you don't wanna read feel free to fuck off.

Yeah, no fuck that. There's a difference between posting at a reasonable level and posting obnoxiously. 50+ pages when it has only been like 1 day is by far the latter. I play mafia to have fun and de-stress, not to dedicate 8 hrs to it like a day-to-day job. MOREOVER, when I do try to have fun I end up with people calling me "kiddo" and others telling me to "fuck off".

- Dunn seriously has the most posts but prob one of the lowest content in his posts. Being useless in the open to look like he's putting in ~effort~ and being ~helpful~

Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean I'm not doing anything

Okay, so... what are you doing?

What are you reads? Any tier list or anything?

MDS's post 888 might be contender for worst single post in the whole thread.

Why?

Because I totally agree with this btw and voiced as much

I already explained this in the PT, but basically reads very generic and noncontroversial reads. Feels like she went from "Oh people aren't pleased or agreeing with my weird defense of Jester" to "Let me try to please people by having reads others are sharing so it looks like I'm helping to push wagons they want".

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm supposed to have controversial reads to be town? Wow, thanks,

I'll write this down for next time I'm scum.

Awk.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Is sarcasm escaping everybody or what? I kind of want to tone down the cynicism but you guys are making it incredibly difficult.

>literally scumslips
>n-no i was j-joking g-guys

You seriously think "next time I'm scum" implies I'm scum now?

You really have to do a better job and choose 1 narrative and stick with it.

Pedit: yeah what she said.
Pedit2: What? So what did the second part mean.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Sorry though, not leaving this dance on my own. You'll have to work for it.

Yeah you or anyone else shouldn't leave the dance ever. Period.

People need to not try to be heroes.

That said, I still have a problem with your reads even if we let this little incident past us.

One point you said right now is you put Gamma as town. But in your post this is what you said:

"I'm unsure about Gamma. I've played like 3 games with em and e was scum in 2 of them, but e reads different *every time*. Anyway, I caught em pretty quickly the first time so I can put em on hold for now."

There's a HUGE difference between saying "X is town" and what you said.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Sorry arthur, when you think about it a little her explanation does check out.

Can we please lynch Mr. Obvscum (shadow) now?

Okay so me and inspector talked about this a bit, but basically we had different conclusions.

My take was that we should group the scummiest PAIR and lynch with that to start off.

He disagreed and said that people should go for the scummiest INDIVIDUALS regardless of partner.

For me however, the 3 leading wagons are:

The_Jester (null) - MiniDeathStar (lean scum)
Gamma Emerald (null) - Vedith (very scummy)
Shadow_step (very scummy) - MariaR (lean town)

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

InspectorScout you can take her place and chime in with your thoughts

He said he's going to sleep.

And I'm going to go play some league.

Sooo you have no one left huehue

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Only way she is scum is she is scum with Dunn so there is no way I'm getting lynched today.

No no no no no.

Like.

No.

You don't get to fucking do this.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Unvote

Vote: Shadow

This goes first today.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Only way she is scum is she is scum with Dunn so there is no way I'm getting lynched today.

No no no no no.

Like.

No.

You don't get to fucking do this.

Ftr this is one of my strongest scumtells because I usually tend to use it A LOT as scum.

The pulling "you don't dare lynch me today"/"I'm not getting lynched today" card.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@Mod: Would it be possible to order the vote counts from people who have the most votes on them to the least please?

Sorry if it's a bother and I understand if you're on the phone and can't do it etc, just one of the pet peeves of mine :/

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Shadow isn't scum btw I am fairly sure on that now and gamma is just spewing w/e he can to try to get us lynched while Vedith is just...Vedith

He literally just tried to use the fact that he's paired with you as a reason not to lynch him.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

SAD, you're a misrepping moron. What I clearly meant was that I'd be okay with my lynch only if I had Maria as scum. I have her as town so I'm absolutely not okay with my lynch.

Okay as freaking insulting as this is, I can't both be misrepping and a moron.

Misrepping means I'm doing a deliberate act of twisting you words for a specific purpose.
Moron indicates I'm doing the wrong thing because of my stupidity and incompetence.

SO which one am I?

Which actually brings me to me main point:

YOU HAVE 0 SCUM-HUNTING.

You don't actually try to solve the game. Your whole game play is "find a person that is attacking me, call them scum or insult them", combined with "continuously lash out at people in the hope that my anger starts to read genuine to people and I get townread".

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

- MDS's post 888 might be contender for worst single post in the whole thread.

you're like the second person to really be hating on this post and i'm trying to figure out why, explain this to me

I already responded to Dunn's question about it:

MDS's post 888 might be contender for worst single post in the whole thread.

Why?

Because I totally agree with this btw and voiced as much

I already explained this in the PT, but basically reads very generic and noncontroversial reads. Feels like she went from "Oh people aren't pleased or agreeing with my weird defense of Jester" to "Let me try to please people by having reads others are sharing so it looks like I'm helping to push wagons they want".

I guess to add to that the whole post just reeks of fencesitting while trying to please and satisfy others.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

OK I think I must be missing something because I still am not sure what exactly he missed in 212. I think 212 was intentionally worded in a way that assumed Cv666 was town, and the point was to say something along the lines of "if you're town this doesn't make sense". what am I missing here?]

you're close. tonally it comes off like he -knew- cerberus was town.

Parama I don't know how to tell you this,

But using ~these~ instead of -this- for emphasis looks a lot prettier (and yours looks horrid).

Shout out to Shadoweh.

dunn, take a step back for a moment and you'll see the gaping hole in that logic

Not seeing anything

Clearly take another step back silly!

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

really don't like sadboy's 1346 especially, i think dunn's just kind of dumb and i forgive him but that post from ser is actually kinda gross
(hint: there's no contradiction in the two posts he pointed out)

Umm

She's either sarcastic where she implied she is scum this game.

Or she didn't imply she is scum this game and I just misread it.

But she was trying to run with both narratives.

What is hard to understand?

Also HS literally caught the same thing at the same time so it assures me I'm was not just tunneling and being stupid.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

If anyone on the shadow wagon tr's me Get OFF IT
based on our PT I am strongly sure shadow is town

If anyone on the shadow wagon tr's me Get OFF IT
based on our PT I am strongly sure shadow is town

elaborate

He's acting extremely geninune to me I know you guys find his tone annoying but he's never bitchy to me and he keeps on saying sorry that I'm gonna die because of him I strongly think he's being honest.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Seriously I thought you were gonna say he was like giving super hardcore good reads or something.

So he's buddying to you in the thread in the hope that you'd defend him.

And his reason we shouldn't lynch him is that he is paired with you.

So he's still doesn't care about scumhunting or showing a care in the world to solving the game and is literally trying to save his skin. Even in the PT. Thanks for the info.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also like I don't know how to tell you this,

But while I do think you're town, I also get the feeling you can be VERY easily emotionally manipulated and gullible.

Pedit: @Maria

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Sorry I'm not pushing the Shadow wagon but Jester is pretty set on both of them being town and I trust his judgement.

Unvote

Vote: MDS

This is scum she has literally done nothing but fence sit how aren't people seeing these terrible posts. And now she uses Jester reads to give more non commital reads.

I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that MDS is a townie who is so attached to Jester that she is literally playing the game through him.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also mhsmith has done nothing but give thoughts on setup and hardcore lurk and I'm not dropping my scumread on him nor forgetting it so he can continue to lurk hoping he's gonna skate by.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@Mod: I'm voting MDS pair

When I get home I'll post thoughts on the gamma ISO I did yesterday. Was hoping to get some thoughts from inspector first about something weird I caught but he hasn't said anything so now I feel like a loner :/

That said, I think Shadow is the strongest scum indivdual. Vedith pair is the scummiest pair.

However, I am literally baffled by how literally everyone is ignoring MDS while she gives 0 concrete reads. Literally waffle posts

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Actually lets try this.

MDS your top 3 scumread and why aren't you voting any of them.

1.
2.
3.

No, not Jester's reads. No, idc what he thinks about then. YOUR own thoughts.

Pedit: Its easy to call people town. You get to slide under the radar without people arguing with you or asking to explain as much.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@Dayne I've talked with her enough in our pt to judge her alignment. Take my word for it or don't. You're just making suboptimal lynch choice which is

sad

cause I townread you.

See the thing is, being "townie" or "town-looking" is just NOT good enough. The wincon isn't "go look townie" it's "find scum". So far:

MDS has no scumreads
You have no scumreads
Shadow has NO reads
Dunn has NO reads
Maria has NO reads
Vedith has 1 read
Parama has 1 read
Cerb has done nothing
mhsmith has done nothing (except discuss setup early on ~so~ helpful wow)
Gamma has ????????? reads
Kagami has ????????? reads

Me and inspector have discussed more reads than I feel has been discussed in 70 pages of this thread.

Imagine the deadline was only 8 days for all of Day 1 like the other games. Seriously imagine that.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

And then whenever I push/vote someone instead of engaging with the actual person or trying to see what they think or something I get their partner yelling at me saying they're town

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Dunn has NO reads

- Dunn seriously has the most posts but prob one of the lowest content in his posts. Being useless in the open to look like he's putting in ~effort~ and being ~helpful~

Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean I'm not doing anything

Okay, so... what are you doing?

What are you reads? Any tier list or anything?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

My reads are determined around what I currently think
I think Shadow is scum and Maria is town, structuring some of my other reads
Don't like how you're talking down all of us

Because I'm getting annoyed every time I push someone I get their partner yelling and defending them (before they even answer for themselves or anything) for ~secrets~.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

You can't tell me this equates to no reads

MDS has no scumreads

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay, so... what are you doing?

What are you reads? Any tier list or anything?

I need a tier list to be figuring things out?


Though in fact I do have one. it's in my pt. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean I'm not trying to figure things out. I'm pushing on who I think is scum

Oh okay.

Let's start playing the game from our PT.

I will start voting there hopefully Fakegod moves my vote over.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

When you say I have no reads it's so far from the truth though just chill

As of writing this you have 278 posts, more than 100 more than the next person.

If I bring a random person right now and show them the "activity list" table they would think you're like controlling and leading the town and super hardcore scumhunting and asking questions of everyone and everything and keeping tabs everywhere.

Meanwhile seriously I ISO you and I see

extremely

little.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Oh right I also wanted to see what people thought of these gamma posts I saw yesterday during ISO. They're just extremely weird and I don't know what to make of them:

Scum may know everyone's alignment, but they need to know what the popular opinion is and what not, so they still need to read. What you can do is see who says "I don't wanna read" and yet demonstrates an understanding of in-game events. This likely means they are getting told what is going on in daychat.
I know not all games have daychat, but specifically for this setup, I feel that point is relevant.

One of my preferred scumhunting methods is watching people interact with confirmed town. Scum will try to discredit them any way they can.

I have no idea what he's trying to say here. It feels like he's trying to throw shade in an extremely off-handed and non committed way but like... they feel so detached.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

First post was me correcting a generalistic philosophy

Yeah but you said "I know not all games have daychat, but specifically for this setup,

I feel that point is relevant

."
What did you mean by relevant? Do you feel someone specifically is doing what you said? If so why not point it out directly?

First post was me correcting a generalistic philosophy

Second post was me suggesting a scumhunting tool I figured out from my own scumplay[/quote]
Again, like, what is the point? Do you feel someone has tried to discredit the conftownie yet? If not, then why did you say it when you can hold off on that thought was observe more if someone ~actually~ does do that "scumtell".

It feels like both posts read "Hey guys look I'm looking for scum in such and such ways I'm trying to figure the game out", meanwhile if you actually meant those two posts you wouldn't have made them until you feel someone has demonstrated such behavior.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

But why not ask people questions if you're curious?

Are you saying why I'm not asking people about their reads instead of pointing out the lack?

Because when I tried to interact with people this happened

However, I am literally baffled by how literally everyone is ignoring MDS while she gives 0 concrete reads. Literally waffle posts

Literally her 2 posts back

Town pairs for me so far:

Cerb/Nahdia
Jester/Mini
HS/Parama
(Jester thinks Maria/Shadow is town, too, but I'm not too sure)

Mini's town, leave her alone.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

1) I felt it was imperative to correct that because HS seemed to rely on it a bit much
2) I'm p sure someone did that by then or some point in the game

1. I don't feel HS was relying on it "a bit much" at all? It felt like an off-handed comment by her.
2. ??? Who? And if so why don't you have a stronger scumread on them if it's one of your strong scumtells? Esp because you just pointed out to me you think Maria is town and Shadow is scum (so I'm gonna guess you have no more ~strong~ reads).

Pedit: Ugh this is what I mean they felt so detached from reality like they didn't look like you believed in them as much as them saying "hey guys look I have these ~tools~ that I am using to catch ~scum~".

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I meant why not ask about their pt? Do you think only you have stuff in yours

Because I wanted to talk and get a reaction from MDS without their lover defending them when the whole setup relies on people manipulating/tricking people in their respective PTs? So is everyone gonna be defended by their partner without the chance to speak for themselves? (*cough* Maria's Shadow is sooooooooooo nice to me in the PT *cough*).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Does anyone have meta/history with pie? Does she play similar to Equinox? Because that's how I get the feeling from her posts and I feel like just reading her how I try to read Equinox because I have an extremely hard time distinguishing scum from town from that playstyle.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

This is my main issue. With how the dynamic between me/Vedith and MariaR/ShadowStep is, lynching in first dance IS in our best interest so we can sort some slots before we enter the crunch time of second dance.

Well timer goes back to 8 mins after every lynch. You don't think 8 days per lynch is more than enough time?

I like the idea. It can end up making little difference if the IC goes, but forcing the scum to make their NK now instead of later disturbs town thinking on a whole a lot less. It forces scum to play their cards earlier.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm not sure I agree

the chance that gamma-vedith for instance gets killed by mafia is approximately 0%

Okay, but like say the IC has a chance of 80%.

I'd personally give Parama/HC like 10-15%?

Not to sound arrogant or boastful but I'd give like me inspector 5-10% chance (mainly because I do have a fairly strong townread on inspector and I think we're both strong players that scum can be afraid of us).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm not sure I agree

the chance that gamma-vedith for instance gets killed by mafia is approximately 0%

Okay, but like say the IC has a chance of 80%.

I'd personally give Parama/HC like 10-15%?

Not to sound arrogant or boastful but I'd give like me inspector 5-10% chance (mainly because I do have a fairly strong townread on inspector and I think we're both strong players that scum can be afraid of us).

None of those three pairs have received any meaningful pressure today.

Exactly my point....

If a pair is largely being townread even if they are not paired with the IC scum might kill them because otherwise they can form a townbloc that can end game them easily, and scum are scared of universal townreads more than anything so if you even out the IC with the other players then all that remains is how strong of players the strong townreads are.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I like that idea, force scum to kill early.
But I'd like everyone to have an established read list before we reach that point.

Just for you baby, I'll whip up a new tier list (mainly cuz I love making these tier lists in games lol)

Nahdia
Parama, inspectorscout, Human Sequencer, Cerberus v666
Kagami, MariaR
The_Jester, Dunnstral, pieguyn
MiniDeathStar, mhsmith0, Gamma Emerald
Shadow_step, Vedith

Okay well it wasn't that new I guess similar to the last one.

Notes:
- Gamma moved down due to ISOing him, the large gaps of illogical thinking to come from town that he has. His posts read more like "Hey looks guys I'm trying to help" rather than actually ~trying~ to help. It feels like he latches onto posts then comments about those, then moves on. Like claiming that HS was using the logic of scum not reading the main thread as one of her main points, while I felt like it was an offhanded remark by her. He just took it, exaggerated it, then said "Hey guys I'll post a ~helpful~ thing here".
- Dunn went up because from metaing him and talking to inspector I got the feeling that he does this weird style of posting random troll and fluff posts regardless of alignment. I still think he has very little substance in his posts though, like he doesn't have concrete pushes that he looks like he truly believes in. However from the ISO I felt the trying to pair with Maria was genuine, and I think scum would have likely dropped the insistence much earlier in the hope to just ~gets~ a partner as opposed to stay out in the cold.
-Pie moved down because I really see nothing in her ISO that she can't be faking. She's being helpful, yes. She has reads, yes. But like... nothing that can't be faked. It's one of my qualms with people like that (which is why I brought up the Equinox point), it's very hard for me to get a grasp on the people that don't post with ~passion~.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Dunn went up because from metaing him

wait really? lol

Just surprised someone took the time to do that

You'd be surprised what you can accomplish when you stop treating the thread as twitter and actually take the time out to go after meta about reads you're not sure about or to do research via ISOs.

You know, instead of having to dedicate a significant part of playing the game to only trying to catch up through garbage and troll posts, and mud slinging contests.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

how he keeps saying nobody has reads when that is not the case.
His complaints about there being too many useless posts to read just feel links fake and scum who doesn't want to read anything. I myself have complained about there being too many posts to read as scum because I literally don't give a shit what town are talking about but I need to read it anyway because I can't afford to slip and that is boring as fuck.

Okay not to be rude but you are the one of the most hypocritical people I presume in the entire universe.

1. BARELY ANY PEOPLE HAVE READS. This is a true fact. I'm not going to argue this point. In fact, my main point: you JUST asked people for concrete reads. YOU. YOURSELF. Here if you are unsure what that means I will help you.

This person:


Just said:

But I'd like everyone to have an established read list before we reach that point.

2. Are you seriously applying what you do as scum to me when you fucking got mad and called me a moron or whatever else you have been insulting me with when I used a scumtell that I normally use when I am scum???

SAD I don't play from your book of how to play mafia. So what you do as scum doesn't apply to me. But thanks for scum claiming with that vote.

How about try "SAD wants to fucking read the thread because HE SIGNED UP FOR THIS GAME and he reads the thread REGARDLESS of alignment". Seriously I read the thread regardless of alignment because, hint, it's FUN for me. That's why I play mafia!!! What I am not willing to do is spend hours reading garbage troll posts that have little to do with actually trying to solve the game.

You are seriously trying to pull the "too dumb and scummy" to be scum trick now right? There's no possible way you are actually this bad because a lot of your posts indicate you are competent, so for you to always resort to these outlandish attacks makes me think this is how you're trying to get out of your lynch.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Unvote

Vote: Shadow

I'm done. I'm not moving my vote till this lynch happens. If another lynch happens I will put my vote back continuously.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

20+ pages

I will skip them all.

Is shadow lynched yet.

I'm not putting an ounce of effort till that happens.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

HOLY

My plan of playing the game through the mod ISO is genius.

Vedith leaving is pathetically dumb.

He achieved one thing which is get a flip before 100 pages, so congrats for doing something people clearly had almost no chance of doing seeing as it's a miracle if we ever get a lynch.

Pedit: Yeah I invented a new way of playing the game do you like it.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Anyway,

Vote: Shadow

Idk why votes get reset but sure.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Why do I still care about this game enough to actually see a new post and open it I seriously don't know I just wanted to go to the anime thread.

And then I see a post that makes me want to face palm my head into a wall because I'm called exactly what Shadow has embodied over what I assume to be the last 92 pages.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay new plan

I go make dinner.

I come back I read where I left off.

For every shadow post 1 shot.

If I ever get to a point where I can't continue anymore that means Shadow has made too many posts and I am resigned to being completely useless till lynch happens.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

No I promised inspector I'll come back fresh today. I super hate subbing out, esp from a 90 page game it is rude to the mod and to the player having to catch up. I usually include "to the players" too but lol shadow on player list.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay I'm more or less caught up. Here is the stuff I typed on notepad obv no spellcheck there so yeah.

Maria's page 79-80 is terrible (not really in the scummy way, in the wtf are you saying way). Idk how you want people to catch scum if literally no one shares reads or lists.

Arthur, mhsmith, pieguyn, parama, vedith, nahdia, kagami
I at least townlean you all (except mhsmith, null) and you're all competent and you're actually thinking the game through.
Help me through this endless purgatory.
From the seven people above, could I please have the following
1. Reads on Gamma, Mariar, Vedith and Shadow, and whether you believe we should lynch them or not. They're prime lynch targets right now, and I really think it's good for town to remove them because with the post flip information we can probably steamroll the game with a HS-Parama-Nahdia-Arthur townblock, or something similar.
2. A read on Cerb. I really need help sorting this slot out, I can't read him for shit and I'm getting 'Cerb is scum' from the exact same posts others are reading as 'Cerb is town'
3. A read on mhsmith. Obviously mhsmith is exempt from this. Again, I'm having a really difficult time sorting this slot.
4. Literally anything else you think might be helpful to save me from the black hole I feel myself slowly pulled into.

Jester/mds is irrelevant and can be solved another day.

Oh fuck, there I go buddying again, might as well lynch me tbh

1. Okay well both flipped town but at the time I had Vedith as strong scum and Gamma leaning scum. Rn without analyzing anything I have Maria as leaning town, Shadow as scum. He successfully seemed to dodge some people's suspicion by yelling and insulting and pretending to be angry at his lynch, but that doesn't change his alignment.
2. Useless townie? Idk I haven't really updated my read on him at all since a bunch of pages ago because he's been mia but I really got the feeling his reaction to Nahdia picking him was super genuine.
3. He's scummy and flying under the radar. He's also doing this thing where he points out stuff he's doing to say "hey look here I'm being helpful call me town".
4. This is kinda regarding #1 but I suggested much earlier on in the PT to inspector to have a townbloc of me-him, hs-parama, cerb-nahdia. My biggest fear with townblocs is that scum can slip in there, but again I feel like till much later in the game as long as we're organized with applying pressure we can figure the game out and then catch if a scum slipped into the bloc.

This is gonna sound super hypocritical, but Parama 2049 seriously like idk what you want when you only have 1 place you're pressuring, and even that you said "might actually be town".
Jester 2052 kinda bad he has had almost no pressure anywhere.
mhsmith baiting Vedith to leave in 2084 idk why no one calling him out on it. Basically saying "if Vedith doesn't leave he's scum" meanwhile thats telling town Vedith that he should leave otherwise it's gonna look bad.
I like Parama's push to get people to vote, and I like Cerb's response to Vedith to not leave dance. Both read as trying to find alternatives to do the anti-town thing.
Shadow's 2126 lol I'm telling you people how don't you see this guy playing the "too scummy to be scum" card. He's outright telling someone to leave the dance, but since hes not ~subtley~ saying it then he has nothing to hide!!
HS please don't set up lynches like that it always ends up going bad (page 86)
RE: Parama/Cerb about the plan, ?? I actually liked the plan I wish someone explained to me why having the scum play their hand early is a bad thing.
Oh dearie lol Gamma's 2156. I tried to not comment on the people flipped's posts too much cuz obv they're town, but I'm sorry that is one of the worst posts made in the entire game. It screams trying to divert attention.
MDS and Parama calling him out on it is godo. Mainly because I think most scum would've pulled back not to be assosciated badly knowing gamma flipping town. But it's def not far that one scum can do it to push Vedith over the edge (hint MDS).
MDS 2176 aren't you voting gamma wtf?
I'm not reading Vedith's long post sorry buddy boi. I did read the part about myself though cuz I'm a conceded shit so there's that Gald it was nothing concrete though just calling my ISO bullshit but I guarantee you I'm putting like a million percent more effort into the game.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO mhsmiths 2228 HOLY LOOOl this guy just baitied someone into leaving dance and only after does the scum thing where he pretends he's mad and "no one else leave dance pls!!!!!!!"
Nahdia for the love of everything holy why are you useless.
Okay at least the list you give is decent. 2/3 I think ahve scum! (hint it's mhsmith and MDS)

If you want me evicted cast your fucking votes already. I seriously don't have patience for this. Just don't ignore my reads after I flip town.

That's basically how I imagine MDS's face irl playing this game btw.

I don't really get why I'm scum if MDS flips scum inspector but uhh sure I guess it's not even a bad deal to trade 1 for 1 b/c scum losing one in this setup relieves so much pressure.
Pie's 2281 first part feels genuine. Like it's one thing to call your partner suspicious when you have a lot of people lined up for scum b/c then you try to go for town points. I fele like saying "I barely have scumreads and I'm considering my partner" is different because you're bound to be called out on bs if you're doing that and then asked why you aren't going harder for your partner, which will make things awk.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

"Smith baited vedith into suiciding"
^citation needed

mhsmith baiting Vedith to leave in 2084 idk why no one calling him out on it. Basically saying "if Vedith doesn't leave he's scum" meanwhile thats telling town Vedith that he should leave otherwise it's gonna look bad.

----------

I fele like saying "I barely have scumreads and I'm considering my partner" is different because you're bound to be called out on bs if you're doing that and then asked why you aren't going harder for your partner, which will make things awk.

I bet people have asked her why she wasn't going after her partner then right?

What?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also how could you miss the point discussed from 2305? You say that she's bound be be called out for potential BS and yet she HASNT been called out and even questioned for the lack of push on me, which basically invalidates your point.

So far there seems to be no curiosity about why she isn't pushing me, so why would you think it's "inevitable" that scum!her would get pushback if it's a bs'd thing?

No I didn't understand what you said in 2305...

Anyway what I was originally saying was that if scum are saying (we'll use me as an example):

"I really have no idea who is scum anymore seriously I really think inspector is scum"

now compare that sentence with something like:

"I think mhsmith, MDS, shadow are scum. Even Dunn and Jester to a lesser degree I can see as scum. I also seriously have my doubts about inspector idk I really think he could be scum."

Now, which of those two sentences sounds more scummy?

If you have a lot of scumreads and you add your partner, it just looks like scum who's looking for town points by ~kinda~ scumreading their partner.

If a scum barely has any reads, they'll try to use bs to justify a read somewhere else, they don't want one of their few reads on their partner, because then later on they have to put up or shut up with their scumread on their partner. And that is disadvantageous for scum because then they'll have to be pushing against their pairing.

Therefore, what Pie said reads more coming from a townie mindset, as I don't see scum making that post.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Wait I missed a pie self vote somewhere?

That makes my point to mhsmith about pie-town even stronger.

Vote: MDS

I'm cool with this for now.

Pedit: LOL

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

What have you done at all this game besides whine that me and shadow are scum let's check...nothing good to know you keep screaming that me and shadow should be lynched but you're doing nothing to do it just placing your vote same can be said for para/SAD
If you want shadow so bad do something about it

Are you seriously gonna misrep my whole play like this?

Wtf I seriously I thought you were town but there's no way you can see my posts and say I'm only pushing shadow.

You have continuously tried to discredit me having a scumread on shadow meanwhile your town read on him is literally based on ???????? What, that he buddies you in PT?

I'm starting to get the feeling like you're the scum who's obsessed with only slinging mud at people who are pushing shadow because you know you will go down in the process.

Yeah I need that pair flipping I feel extremely uncomfortable doing any analysis or pushing anywhere else with how their play has been all game.

Vote: Shadow-MariaR

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

The dude literally told someone.

In the middle of thread what translated to "Go ahead and leave the dance coward"

If it was literally anyone else who has not been acting like a complete asshole you would've scumread it right?

But no. He plays the "too scummy to be scum" card. And you're like "Shaddddddowwwww-samaaaaaa please shadddddddowwww-sama why are you such a beacon of innocence please say more nice words to me in the PT"

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Like that's not being a teamplayer to just sit there and do nothing.

Here is an example of someone being a teamplayer why or why aren't I following their ways???

Vedith if you're gonna do it. Then do it.
I'm getting tired of Gamma's non sense.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Are you talking about the post where he was like "Vedith can you leave so I don't have to deal with gamma's nonsense"
Vedith already said he was leaving so shadow was just asking to hurry up is the way I took that post or are we talking about a dif post

I really didn't think I would need tonexplaib this.

But there's a huge.

HUGE

Difference between someone proclaiming to want to leave the dance and actually doing it.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Is Jester or Cerb ever gonna put a vote down.

Stay tuned to find out.

Full reveal at page 500.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I want to have 2 flips and at least 1 lynch wagon to go over in my PT during intermission tbh and NL runs counterproductive to that

We really don't gain anything from NLing either

Why only in your PT and not analyze the lynch wagon/flips on thread?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I mean it's one thing to want ~secrets~ in your PT,

It's another thing to deprive everyone else of meaningful discussion and your thoughts because that's just anti-town, the PTs should not be used to contain all discussion cuz wtf are we doing here then.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Cerb you are pro-NL yet you do not vote it.

And you do not put a vote anywhere else.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I want to have 2 flips and at least 1 lynch wagon to go over in my PT during intermission tbh and NL runs counterproductive to that

We really don't gain anything from NLing either

Why only in your PT and not analyze the lynch wagon/flips on thread?

??? because the thread is going to be locked during intermission ???

or at least that's the impression I've got its just gonna be like a night phase

I thought this was a nightless game mode...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Gonna be incredibly boring if thread is locked.

Pedit: Ugh zzzzz.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm pretty sure if scum don't boot Cerberus they'll autolose. Literally all we need to win the game is *one* pair that we all agree is town-town, then lynch everyone else.

Okay so why does it matter to you if it happens now or later.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

MDS everyone wooooooooooo what is logic

I shouldn't have to explain why no-lynch is a bad idea, it's just so obviously anti-town that the only explanation why *you* Smith would be pushing it, is that you're scum.

I'm pretty sure if scum don't boot Cerberus they'll autolose. Literally all we need to win the game is *one* pair that we all agree is town-town, then lynch everyone else.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Eh, untrue. If they shoot someone else, all they need to do is convince Nahdia I'm scum so she leaves. :p

@smith: meh. Reasonable way to prioritize things, but my entire NL thing should make me obvtown(since that would mean if I were scum, I would have to dodge even more lynches as a suspect) but whateva.

I don't know how to tell you this,

But you're being more useless than Nahdia right now.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Checking the good ol' mafiascum dot net.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Oh nothing

You just agree with everything I'm saying in thread and have the same thoughts as me AND think I'm town but yet don't want to partner up

make out already

Okay I actually read.

If Shadow flips scum, I will be hardcore pushing Parama.

I can also possibly see an MDS-mhsmith scumpair.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I mean I don't know about you guys, but if I were scum I would def go for an early distancing on one of my buddies (and put the other somewhere between leaning town-to town?)

But putting an early distancing is super important for scum because if one of them flips, then the other can coast to late game and possibly endgame because of freelo townie-points.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

nice quote.

Thanks I was trying to compare your gif to mine and see who had a better one.

SAD remind me of your read on your partner?

Town.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I mean I don't know about you guys, but if I were scum I would def go for an early distancing on one of my buddies (and put the other somewhere between leaning town-to town?)

But putting an early distancing is super important for scum because if one of them flips, then the other can coast to late game and possibly endgame because of freelo townie-points.

Sure, I guess i can maybe see that at least on a theory basis. Idk if she'd actually be capable of carrying that off effectively as scum, but I don't know why you'd be making a presumption one way or the other there.

Are you talking about Parama or MDS.

If it's Parama I can def see her going for the long con early on with a "scum-slip" and push that early for super townie-points off of bussing. She started to catch my eye when she kept doing this pull-in and out where she like says she wants shadow lynch, then would find something and say "oh that kinda looks town". But then when questioned she said "oh not I still think shadow is still def scum" (2513). It seems superficial. It's like when/if shadow flips scum she can then go "I've been pushing him this entire time" meanwhile she's opportunistically pushing other wagons (like me). I called her out earlier when I said she only has 1 read and she got tight but she really did have close to 1 strong read at that time, indicating she wanted to sit on it for a while so it's ingrained in people's minds that she was pushing shadow.

If you're talking about MDS, I can see the argument between you two and the case she has on you as being similar to Parama (I guess to a lesser extent which is why I'm not as confident about your pairing, I feel like if scum were going for an early buss/distancing they would have done it super hardcore because they would need the gambit to reach them to endgame). But still, her shade throwing like 1259 not only feels like she's subtly asking for reactions to see if town is agreeing with the read (which scum want to do to try and lessen controversial reads) but also something that seemed superficial and not something I see with a town-mindset immediately focusing on. I get the feeling she knows you're scum -> tries to then paint a picture with something you say as scummy, so then she can go "oh look I called out smith's bs early on".

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

ahhaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
i am fuckin done
literally what the fuck
what makes me any more likely to do or say that as scum compared to town
literally what the fuck

Because your reads are bad in a way that youre probably trying to keep yourbuddies from being lynched

Shadow-maria is a cowbeaten to death already
And yes im aware that arthur does the same, and i disagree with it as much as with you
But otherwise hes okay and youre not

Ps if HS is a wolf, I feel like the shadow-Maria pair is pretty likely spewed town.

I actually agree with this, I think if HS is scum shadow-maria is town.

However the HS shadow-pair push IS partly the reason I am strong townreading HS. It feels way too genuine. I don't feel like scum would stick with a wagon this long because then it can end up awk for them.

It was also largely the reason I was town-reading Parama but now think Shadow-Parama pair is likely. She looked like she was pushing him genuinely and naturally, but then (recently-ish) started doing the dipping in and out, where she looks like she's opportunistically looking for other wagons. I think it's super likely she went for early distancing for towncredit if shadow flips, but she also demonstrates the scum intuition of being survivalistic.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Shadow-maria is a cowbeaten to death already

I really am having a hard time understanding why is is relevant at all.

Like because he was suspected early on, managed to dodge being lynched by acting aggressive, insulting people, and playing the "too scummy to be scum" card, and his wagon lost steam, he automatically became town?

As I said before none of what he has done changes his original alignment. The only thing that happened is he made a big raging scene and now went back to lurking when he feels he's no longer in the ~danger~ zone of being lynched.

Like he's happy just sitting by right now while town continues to focus on other stuff. He's already done his job of dodging his lynch and AtEing to Maria in his PT. Not like he has to bother himself with solving the game or anything, because, yknow...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Seriously, someone read Shadow's posts since around after Vedith dance leave and tell me which of them read at all like anything demonstrating person who's scumhunting or interested in solving the game.

Spoiler:

VOTE: kagami

Cerb where will you be voting today?

I'm sure there is one scum in Kagami/Dunn

Kagami continues to not address my questions

Then there is this

VOTE: Jester-Pair

VOTE: Shadow Pair

VOTE: Gamma pair

VOTE: jester pair

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: No Lynch

That's a lot of hollow votes, and they all happen to be on the safest wagons of the day. The Shadow vote in 1622 is especially interesting because Dunn said Kagami was allegedly townreading that pair at the time.

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

That was a pretty bad sheeping on the Shadow case and pinged me right away. Funny thing is she had been calling him scummy for a while at that point but not actually voting him.

I still don't like jester's early play and I don't have any terribly fuzzy feeling about MDS either. I think scum-MDS would probably have held out for just a bit, but if there was already a pre-established pairing plan, that may have itself looked suspicious. Jester's "In fact I know you do, therefore my question should be: are you brave enough?" bit makes a show of saying "I'm totes going to be sorting you (because I am town)," which is counterproductive to any real attempt to establish a read. I'm treating 17 as a joke, but I find it strange that no one jumped on that. It's exactly the sort of low-hanging-fruit comment that usually attracts a scumread nibble. I'm also concerned that pretty much everyone had jester/mds as some level of scumread, but they didn't get any real attention at dance-start.

I kind of wish I'd noticed this part earlier because that's literally the same sort of nitpicking that made me scumread Jester in the beginning and mhsmith in the middle of Yesterday. FYI: I admitted pre-dance that Jester can read me like an open book. The "brave enough" was obviously a joke playing on that. We were scum together recently and he noticed I was scum before even looking at his role PM. Like literally 2 pages into the game.


Regardless, Kagami's reads started looking suspiciously similar to Dunn's at that point and I voiced my concern, which Dunn agreed with. Then, this happened:

@Whoever mentioned read-cloning: my internalization is that dunn's reads followed mine, with mismatches as to who was scummy but general agreement on which pairs were likely to include scum.

"Whoever mentioned my read-cloning" was Dunn. Hi.
Does anyone seriously buy that explanation? Dunn scumreads my pair, so does she. Dunn scumreads Shadow, so does she. Dunn scumreads Gamma, so does she. Dunn thinks Vedith is town, she changes her mind and says he's town after having called him scum. No, Dunn's reads definitely didn't follow Kagami's, it was the opposite.

Before accusing Kagami in the village thread, I asked Jester in private something like (paraphrasing)...

Mini:

Is Dunn easy to fool? I think Kagami's either pocketing him or blindly sheeping his reads (because she *is* transparently agreeing with him)

And he said no, Dunn's a great player as either alignment, so I figured she'd be the one sheeping Dunn and I was right.

By the way Kagami, what happened to this?

I would be shocked if gamma and shadow are both town, I'm just unsure who should leave first, since one pair being scum somewhat implies the other town. Part of me wants to channel our charming mod, who would probably just want to lynch them all and let the mod sort them out.

HS, I think it's jester-gamma-?, though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Gamma's town. What does that make of Shadow? I thought your townread on that pair depended on Gamma being scum, but you said you'd vote them out "regardless of alignment". Why are you no-lynching right now?

I think we should just flip a scummo and work from there.

VOTE: No Lynch

Like, feel free to vote me off, but when you see I'm town, this is the lady you need to start looking at. And that includes you, Dunn.

The dude literally told someone.

In the middle of thread what translated to "Go ahead and leave the dance coward"

If it was literally anyone else who has not been acting like a complete asshole you would've scumread it right?

But no. He plays the "too scummy to be scum" card. And you're like "Shaddddddowwwww-samaaaaaa please shadddddddowwww-sama why are you such a beacon of innocence please say more nice words to me in the PT"

SAD's posts are just sad misreps.

Notice how SAD has completely ignored HS and Parama's cry outs for a lynch/flip.

I make a single line about asking vedith to leave(he was dead set on doing it anyway). I was confident of a Gamma scum slip ,and hell breaks loose.

I'm not no lynching because I'm certain there is scum in kagami/dunn

That's to Cerb who is pro NL.

Oh yes, of course, my entire case is that shadow scumslipped, that's all it is, and nothing more.
Nice misrep!

What else is there to it?

alright let's stop the misrep and see where my reads actually are huh?

lock town:
{arthur, parama}

probably town:
{smith, pie, scout, kagami}

unsure:
{dunn, cerb, mds}

scummy scum:
{shadow, mariar, jester}

that leaves a whole six slots to find scum in, and only 4 of them are paired.
are you going to rethink your stance now that you have more detailed information, or do you think 2735 is still a valid post with valid points?

Have you taken issue with one of your lock town voting the other lock town?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

It was also largely the reason I was town-reading Parama but now think Shadow-Parama pair is likely.

loool

of all the shadow pushes yours looks the most fake to me tbh, i actually brought up the possibility of you bussing shadow to HS

Wtf. I mean, yeah, when the other two pushes are your partner who you don't want lynched, and yourself, obv you're gonna say mine looks the most fake "tbh".

Also, glad to hear you deflected exactly what you're doing (bussing early for towncredit) onto someone else.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Are you serious.

Can't tell if plain misrep or...

How about you try reading the whole post, mainly:

However the HS shadow-pair push IS partly the reason I am strong townreading HS. It feels way too genuine. I don't feel like scum would stick with a wagon this long because then it can end up awk for them.

Notice how I said, IF HS is scum, shadow-maria is town.

I didn't say anything about me having a scumread on her, or saying I will get a scumread on her. But thanks again for getting up-tight because I called out your early bussing.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I actually agree with this, I think if HS is scum shadow-maria is town.

am i the only one seeing this????
he's setting up a scenario where our pair is his next target after shadow+maria flips

i'm somehow scum if shadow's scum
hs is somehow scum if the pair is town

Also even if this were true and I'm trying line up lynches as scum, then I wouldn't need to do it if I know shadow-maria's alignment like wtf, I would only need set up the one scenario that will actually happen.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

MDS this is your cue to post your Mr. Fantastic reaching picture.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Still not sold on Maria/Shadow, though Shadow seems to have disappeared when the heat moved on other pairs.

Wow it's almost like...

Shadow-maria is a cowbeaten to death already

I really am having a hard time understanding why is is relevant at all.

Like because he was suspected early on, managed to dodge being lynched by acting aggressive, insulting people, and playing the "too scummy to be scum" card, and his wagon lost steam, he automatically became town?

As I said before none of what he has done changes his original alignment. The only thing that happened is he made a big raging scene and now went back to lurking when he feels he's no longer in the ~danger~ zone of being lynched.

Like he's happy just sitting by right now while town continues to focus on other stuff. He's already done his job of dodging his lynch and AtEing to Maria in his PT. Not like he has to bother himself with solving the game or anything, because, yknow...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Just saying we only have 2 mislynches left.

Can't tell if this is a statement thrown out to try to get towncredit or something and you're hoping someone corrects you,

but,

we have 3 mislynches and that's assuming scum all paired up with a different partner.

Currently 14 -> lynch -> 12 -> scum NK -> 10 -> lynch -> 8 -> lynch -> 6.

At this point if all 3 lynches were mislynches we lose, because scum reach 50%.

Unless you mean like we have 2 mislynches and enter lylo.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

No I've said a million times I want a shadow pair flip so I can work from there.

If he flips scum I think much less likely you're scum as the competing wagon.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ohai Shadow welcome back. As you may have noticed, your lynch is quite back on the table. What great timing. Also seems to be you're quite all caught up (or have been keeping up...)

Please make a selection of the following options to proceed with your posting:

a) Call me a moron
b) Act aggressive towards random people (that happen to coincidentally be on your wagon)
c) Buddy up to Maria in your PT

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Shadow has a point btw, Kagami also vanished once the pressure on her loosened up.

There is so many things wrong with this post that I don't know where to begin.

1. He didn't mention anything about Kagami "also vanishing once the pressure on her loosened up". You literally just made that up on the spot.
2. Kagami was never near the pressure Shadow was, not has she went from hyper posting to 0 posting. Comparing both of them is extremely weird, their cases are nothing alike.
3. He has done almost no scumhunting or given reason for his Kagami scumread. Literally just quoted your case on her.
4. I already told inspector this when he said something about Shadow might just be an arrogant townie, and I said that if he was actually an arrogant townie then he wouldn't just get aggressive towards the people pushing him. He would have more scumreads, aggressively push more wagons/people for reactions, work with what's in the thread, etc. He's already show glimpses that he's extremely competent, yet has mostly just played the too scummy to be scum card and once he dodges his lynch he does nothing.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'd be upset if I had a strong PR or something. I don't so these people are just dumb.

Case on me is "alleged scum slip" it isn't and I don't slip as scum anyway. "Arrogant" that's NAI for me. "Assholish" like seriously?
Then there is the conf bias

Oh my. For someone who cares so much about alleged misreps, you sure just misrepped like the whole suspicion on you.

As I previously said, if you're really "arrogant", then you would be "arrogantly" putting in more effort everywhere, aggressively pushing stuff instead of coasting hardcore. It's not that you're arrogant, it's that it looks like you're faking arrogance/assholishness/aggressiveness.

Also, it's not really "conf bias" as much as you can't override what you have done, and it doesn't change your alignment in the game. I've seen wayyyy too many people pull the too scummy to be scum card and coast off of that. Especially back before I took hiatus, I also used to pay/spec games on another forum where we played all/large majority of our games alted. Experienced players faked being noobs/naive/too scummy etc with ease and got written off for it. Which is exactly what I get the feeling you're doing here.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

HS, Arthur, smith and Parama will never unvote Shadow.

Tbh I am at the point where I think I will hammer any L-1 wagon just because I need a freaking flip before 500 pages so I have something more to work with than these back and forth accusations and AtEing.

That said I will make this very clear:

I much, much, MUCH prefer a shadow lynch today, as a) I need a scumflip before night as I can work much better with the game that way (and shadow highest probability for me rn), b) at least people like mhsmith are actively contributing, you people left the dude I forgot his name day1 without a dance for "gonna be useless", like holy Shadow scummy AND being useless.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

What has this game devolved to.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

This is exactly what happens when people hyperpost but can't agree on anything, then everyone gets burnt out.

Now we run the risk of getting a shitty lynch that can much more easily be controlled by the scum.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm like opposed to mhmsith lynch right now partly because I feel like he's contributing (and so is Pie to a lesser extent).

Scum can just sit back and let the game die out, but he's actively being pro-town and decomposing things.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Omg srsly.

Come to the PT my man looks like we need to preform more rituals for blood god.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay new plan.

I will need n*-1 people to proxy their votes to me everyday.

Thanks in advance.

*n=the amount of players needed to lynch.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Holy moly pie is town af.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Like every time I read an mhsmith post and go "ehh this is not bad" pie then dismantles it in such a logical way there is no way scum would be taking such a self destructive play.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

... yeah, I knew I'd be back to some monstrosity of a thread but you exceeded my expectations.

Summary of my catch up: "Wow people still think I'm scum? But nobody is voting me? Kind of wish I saved myself the effort reading those pages."

Here guys, let me make this easy on you: VOTE: MiniDeathStar

No matter what I say, you're still going to scumread my lover so idc about any of this at this point. Have fun. I'm out.

VOTE: Dunn/Kagami
I don't see any other lady being the scum lady

Holy both of these posts are really really bad.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Yeah I'm not down to lynch mhsmith as I told inspector earlier.

I'm going to work now I'll think about comprimisng when I'm fully caught up when I get back but right now I still much prefer shadow maria. Very likely right now my second compromise is MDS because lol her posting. Do i need to post the yu hi oh card for you again?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hey why don't you explain why instead of being useless as always

Because we went over it on like page fucking 5 which means you either don't care about this game enough to read it because you're scum or just bullshitting randomly.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Btw if shadow does flip scum don't let the people who sr our pair magically go free and question them hard

the scumreads on me were random and not needed.

Dw gurlllll I already said I'm going after Parama 28th shadow scum flip because lol her early bussing for towbcred super obv.

Okay deuces for now gonna be late for work.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hey why don't you explain why instead of being useless as always

Because we went over it on like page fucking 5 which means you either don't care about this game enough to read it because you're scum or just bullshitting randomly.

Why is this a concern when Maria does it but you ignore the fact that Parama did the same the page before your post?

Without looking back I was gonna say because

1. Because Maria is using it to scumhunt, and using weird logic like that to scumhunt instead of just saying it randomly like that is much much scummier.
2. Because Maria partnered with shadow, and at some point I would expect Maria to have ISOed her partner, to get more confident if she's paired with scum or not (Shadow is the one who assumed it wasn't randomized or something, and then Fakegod answered).

BUT that said, having looked back:

It was randomized last setup, and it's randomized this setup.

THE HECK

HUMAN GIVE ME MY GODDAMN MONEY BACK

w-wait 3 scum dudes is totally possible?
ahgurhaghtg WELL THEN

...so I'm NOT insane for having all my stronger scumreads be dudes.

Unvote
Vote: Parama

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

hi sad, I took randomized to mean "it could be 2:1 either way" how's your day

P good thanks.

Now if you can tell me who your third scum partner is in addition to shadow it would be even better.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm not gonna bother explaining nor arguing with someone over the world random because anyone who assumes it's semi-random when the whole argument stemmed over if it can be 3-0 or not has to be lying through their teeth.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm going to work now I'll think about comprimisng when I'm fully caught up when I get back but right now I still much prefer shadow maria. Very likely right now my second compromise is MDS because lol her posting. Do i need to post the yu hi oh card for you again?

Dude honestly just stop. I'm seriously not in the mood. If you're going to vote, do it. Then quit talking to me.

I don't know how to tell you this,

But I know you like to joke about mhsmith being a robot and stuff. But if anyone is closest to a robot in game, it's me. I do not fall for AtE, I do not fall for buddying, and I certainly don't fall for playing the victim or pity card. (Outside of game I'm totally a nice person!)

You're going to have to explain why you continuously play the "go ahead and lynch me" card without literally using it in the explanation. Do not end your response with "go ahead and lynch me if you don't believe me", or anything like that.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

In fact if who I think is scum flips town I actually think arthur could be scum, but so far YOU are the main lynch - also the one I'm trying to prevent.

Is this the guessing game???

Let me guess if HS flips town you think I'm more likely to be scum because you think I steer away from suspecting her because I do not want to ~frustrate~ her into starting to suspect me; the subtle buddying.

Am I right??? What do I win.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I love it how when someone finally calls Ser out on wanting me and shadow lynched so bad his next post is changing said vote lol

What the fuck are your posts.

Someone calling me out on wanting to lynch you?

I've been wanting to lynch your pair since like the start of the game. You think I get ~scared~ of people calling me out NOW? You're delusional.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Like for the record I still want to lynch your pair badly.

The problem is I don't see it happening because too many people are getting a boner from Shadow or something for unknown reasons???

So perhaps people are willing to lynch the other scum in the meantime.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

WERE THE TOP WAGON?

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN NOT HAPPENING.

Okay I'm gonna stop answering you because you really are delusional.

You can be the top wagon without having a chance of getting lynched.

Mastin like to do this thing a lot where no matter at how many votes he is he can predict whether he can get lynched. I like to call it the potential energy of a lynch.

Your lynch basically has little potential energy when everyone who does want to lynch you gets on it. And they don't make enough to lynch you.

Take another example, of say Jester-MDS wagon. It has high potential energy no matter if it is a smaller wagon. Why? Because everyone is more willing to comprise on them, and more people have at least one of them leaning scum or scummy.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Parama: not sure if your argument is especially significant regarding SAD. There has definitely been conversation about three scum of one gender, and given the relative speed of this series of posts, I find it implausible that he went and checked.

Not to mention THE WHOLE PAGE THAT FAKEGOD ANSWERED IN has to do with discussing 3-0. So I find someone reading the beginning of the argument -> skipping middle discussion/info -> checking mod answer extremely unlikely and much more likely just scum not paying attention.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

That number, that gauge, goes out the window when you get under 24 hours though, fyi. People will pile on to whatever ti make sure a lynch happens(though maybe not on this game).

No it doesn't.

If anything, the potential energy is more important the closer the deadline is.

Why?

Because people start going "Who wants to comprise? I'm willing to do X, Y, Z. Hell, even A and B, even though they were null I'm still willing to do them".

However, Shadow-Maria has a lot of people not willing to get compromised on. mhsmith-pie and Jester-MDS has MUCH MUCH MUCHHHHHHHHHHH higher chance of getting flashwagoned at the end near deadline. Which is basically why I have been trying to get people to move to Shadow-Maria, because I knew in current state come deadline they won't be a compromise, and just let scum slip through.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

(This is the definition of a low energy option though, but it's possible both of the other targets of wagons, being survivalistic, will all join, bringing this up to 6, at which point the game will probably just default to this or a no lynch.)

Believe it or not, I love doing this.

Taking a seemingly unlynchable wagon, catch something super scummy that makes me confident that they'll flip scum, and wagon them near deadline. Why? Because more people are willing to jump on them. It's a fresh wagon, a fresh breath of air from the stale wagons people have been debating over. But much more importantly, it leaves scum with much less room to wiggle out of it, much less room to talk it out, or to try to switch the dynamic elsewhere.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

That's more like the way things work 72 hours out.

Down under a day, people arent so reasonable most of the time, because they don't have time to sit around waiting for answers. A few people will drop a vote, and then everybody else will sheep out of paranoia that a no lynch will happen.

Mehhh maybe I have different timesets because I'm used to playing/spectating on another site before my haitus where games have 36hr long days and 8hr nights. So I am much more used to reading and feeling the dynamics of lynches with a few hours left.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Shadow_step - MariaR [4] - Parama, Human Sequencer, Kagami
mod can't count, reported to list mod for shoddy modding :^)

I'm still there in spirit he's counting that.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

you, Kagami, Maria means we would have 7/8.

Ftr I will hammer any L-1 wagon at this point I just want a flip before I go insane.

Here they are in preference though:

Parama/Shadow
MDS
mhsmith

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

oh hey hello there we're a wagon now lmao
arthur is misguided town starting a wagon in the wrong place, cerb is scummy scum trying to build a wagon off of it
jester/cerb are scum, last scum is probably in {shadow/mariar}

Idk how to tell you this HS you're p cool but you got paired with scum :/

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay you guys need to stop I don't even care if one of you is scum at this point the other needs to realize the other scums are sitting back enjoying the free coast. And if you're both town stop because this back and forth is just creating massive amounts of opportunity for scum to skate under the surface.

Please answer the following questions without a million words:

What is your read on the other person. IN ONE SENTENCE. And rank your lynch/wagon preferences.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I think HS is pretty likely town, and while I don't mind seeing the back and forth between you and Parama and figure out if it ever gets to the point I'll get something useful, I'm not really in the mood to vote either of your pairs (I also don't know wtf to think about the mutual accusations between you and Parama of bussing shadow at this point either).

Probably because I correctly called the scum strategy of bussing/distancing early for massive town-points that they can use to ride to endgame, and then called Parama out on doing it. So then she plays:



I'm too tired to put effort into creating a yugioh card myself.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay so

Me
Parama
HS
Kagami
mhsmith
pie

Are willing to get on Shadow wagon.

inspector
Maria
Shadow

Aren't.

That leaves:
MDS
Jester
Dunn
Cerb
Nahdia

You need to decide if you are down to lynch Shadow or not in like a yes/no answer. I don't want to sift through a waffly 5 paragraph response on your life story and how you met Shadow when you were 3 years old and fell in love with him and now your love is inseparable but what if he is scum????? and you can't decide for the life of you! and then your conclusion is "idk if I want the lynch or not".

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

NOOOOO YOU DIDNT GIVE ME THE HAMMER ON SCUM

I'm there in spirit p please.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Vote: Parama

I was having my doubts about her during night after shadow town-flip, but her coming out the gate push on me is atrociously bad.

Fwiw inspector called her obvtown during night. Which like I don't see at all lol.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Parama, let's make a deal; today mhsmuth/pie, tomorrow me/arthur

Inspector I really still think you're town but this is wtf.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

sad is scum part 1:

See the thing is, being "townie" or "town-looking" is just NOT good enough. The wincon isn't "go look townie" it's "find scum". So far:

MDS has no scumreads
You have no scumreads
Shadow has NO reads
Dunn has NO reads
Maria has NO reads
Vedith has 1 read
Parama has 1 read
Cerb has done nothing
mhsmith has done nothing (except discuss setup early on ~so~ helpful wow)
Gamma has ????????? reads
Kagami has ????????? reads

Me and inspector have discussed more reads than I feel has been discussed in 70 pages of this thread.

Imagine the deadline was only 8 days for all of Day 1 like the other games. Seriously imagine that.

this was the first thing that really bothered me. it's just this disgusting mass discredit of practically everyone in the game.

and does sad really believe this? it doesn't sound like it, it looks like he's just making this entire post to buddy inspector some more while throwing shade at everyone. if he was reading the thread at all he'd know this is outright false

Did I really believe it; Yes.

There your case is gone.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I mean do I tend to play in an abrasive playstyle that tends to exaggerate things for effect? Yes. Did I believe a lot of people weren't scum hunting enough and some being utterly useless at the time? Yes.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

and it's just an excuse to get off the wagon that looked like it was driving towards a lynch. he gets to have pushed it the whole time, but not actually been a part of the lynch. and yes we're gonna consider shadow lynched because his leave was literally a self-hammer at L-1

Okay consider me on the Shadow wagon.

I literally got off it because I didn't think it would happen. I asked if people were down for it before I went to sleep, planning on waking up and voting it after sleep if it looked like it was heading for lynch. He left dance before I can get on it.

For the sake of VCA of whatever bullshit you want, consider me on it if you'd like. I will take full responsibility for driving his lynch. You're trying to paint me as someone who came up with an excuse to get off it, meanwhile I don't give a fuck that he flipped town right now and that I wasn't on it, at the time I was 100% for the shadow lynch.

There your part 2 is gone.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

sad is scum, part 3:

What have you done at all this game besides whine that me and shadow are scum let's check...nothing good to know you keep screaming that me and shadow should be lynched but you're doing nothing to do it just placing your vote same can be said for para/SAD
If you want shadow so bad do something about it

Are you seriously gonna misrep my whole play like this?

Wtf I seriously I thought you were town but there's no way you can see my posts and say I'm only pushing shadow.

You have continuously tried to discredit me having a scumread on shadow meanwhile your town read on him is literally based on ???????? What, that he buddies you in PT?

I'm starting to get the feeling like

you're the scum

who's obsessed with only slinging mud at people who are pushing shadow because you know you will go down in the process.

Yeah I need that pair flipping I feel extremely uncomfortable doing any analysis or pushing anywhere else with how their play has been all game.

Vote: Shadow-MariaR

suddenly he's pushing 'em as both scum just to force the lynch
this was what made me ease off the shadow lynch in the first place for what it's worth and i should've listened to my gut at the time

I have colored to you the part that indicated that post was made with the thought "I think Maria might be the scum now not shadow", NOT both. But keep misrepping.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I think it sounds really awkward and something thats scum would feel like saying because reasons. You may not think of it as a scumtell, but i definitely do.

What do you want me to say

"Gee, I really think scum are gonna kill us over an IC" Uhh yeah percentage wise that has a very low chance, even IF IC being useless. Why? Because scum need to lynch ALL town-town pair to win. What's harder, convcing people to lynch half an IC pair when Cerb wasn't being suspicious at all, or pushing a lynching on me or you (yknow, like what Parama is doing right now). Especially when I hardcore wagoned a town last day...

I dont think that cefb hinted at being more active, but there is no point in discussing that. In fact, i didnt push arthur as scum to try and bait the nightkill as well.

Great, what's the chance of you thinking it was gonna happen?

I asked him 'who is scum after the S-S town flip'
He had no solid answers.

Because I didn't have a solid answer at the time...

My theory of Parama/Shadow was relying on Shadow flipping scum. Right now what Parama is doing is scummy af, but during night I had doubts about her. I also told you I thought what Kagami (regarding her near end of day voting) did was scummy, and that I still thought MDS was scum. And I wanted to have a discussion regarding reads by asking questions, which you kinda halted by answering with like 1 sentence answers, and then saying you're gonna have a stats final and presentation due (Obv I don't think you're lying regarding that, but the point still stands that I wasn't able to have a discussion regarding reads).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

i'm honestly convinced the mod flipped shadow wrong

@pie i wasn't even the only one who saw it as a scumslip, blame shadow for being piss poor at wording things

i can't believe shadow's dead and flipped town and i still have to argue about him with people, omg

Read these.

Actually read the logic and the intent.

This is not someone being self-aware they pushed a wagon on town. This is someone trying to cover their back for pushing a townlynch by blaming it on the person that got lynched.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

This is not someone being self-aware they pushed a wagon on town. This is someone trying to cover their back for pushing a townlynch by blaming it on the person that got lynched.

I do think this is them trying to cover their back for pushing a town lynch, but I think their mindset is more along the lines of, "everyone else pushed it too, why do you think you can single *me* out for it?"

This is what I mean, yes. Diffusion of responsibility by stating that he was scummy and that other people also pushed him.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

i mean, shadow was scummy as heck. i'm not going to take responsibility for how scummy he played. why should i?

Well for starters, if you were town, I would expect you to be self-aware that you hardcore wagoned a town the previous day and not come out swining right off the bat with a "case" on me (which is p much bullshit and has no ground). You would be more humbled. The fact that you ignore you just pushing a mislynch like that to then pushing a mislynch on me like nothing happened the previous day heavily indicates you're scum who doesn't care about scumhunting, just cares are narrowing down the playerlist.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

i mean, shadow was scummy as heck. i'm not going to take responsibility for how scummy he played. why should i?

Well for starters, if you were town, I would expect you to be self-aware that you hardcore wagoned a town the previous day and not come out swining right off the bat with a "case" on me (which is p much bullshit and has no ground). You would be more humbled. The fact that you ignore you just pushing a mislynch like that to then pushing a mislynch on me like nothing happened the previous day heavily indicates you're scum who doesn't care about scumhunting, just cares are narrowing down the playerlist.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

sorry for trying to lynch scum????

Shadow_step, who was

Town

Gentleman

, has

left

in

first dance

.

MariaR, who was

Town

Lady

, has

left

in

first dance

.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

(Like I understand I'm being some what of a hypocrite but your mindset/thought process is NOT coming from town).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

like that doesn't even make sense. i made a case on you because i think you're scum. how is that in any way scummy to do.

Because it doesn't look like you believe in half of what you're saying.

The case has no basis. It looks like it's put together more to push a mislynch than it is to try and scumhunt.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

(Like I understand

I'm being some what of a hypocrite

but your mindset/thought process is NOT coming from town).

admitting to something doesn't absolve you from doing it

????????????

Is your next part of the case gonna be "SAD is a hypocrite - lynch all hypocrites".

Wtf is your point.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

(Like I understand

I'm being some what of a hypocrite

but your mindset/thought process is NOT coming from town).

admitting to something doesn't absolve you from doing it

????????????

Is your next part of the case gonna be "SAD is a hypocrite - lynch all hypocrites".

Wtf is your point.

you can't admit that you're doing something hypocritical and then just dismiss it by acknowledging it. you still did it either way.

I'm not dismissing it... I'm admitting it.

I'm saying we both pushed Shadow, yes. We BOTH were reasons he got mislynched - yes. The difference is the mindset we have after the lynch.

Again, what's your point?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

right, arguing with you two is a true waste of my time since i feel like you're both just ignoring me and going "lol scum"

You're not engaging me, or asking me questions, or anything.

What do you want me to say. "Yeah gee Parama, that case is super convincing, I'm sold!" ???

Like you literally just made BS up and then when I try to engage with you or talk to you you pretend you're angry or something? This is exactly why I'm saying you look like you want to push another mislynch - you try to put the case to convince OTHER people, instead of trying to engage with me to convince YOURSELF. It's like you already know I'm town, so you go "Why bother talking with him when I can try to get other people to wagon him".

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

MDS every post you make makes me want to dayvig you how is this possible.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

It's like you're having a private competition with yourself to one up every previous post you made with a more scummy one.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

You mean like Shadow was scum? If I were you, I'd reassess my reads after *that* fiasco, but I guess I just don't have that ego of yours, do I? You're the one true authority on what is scummy. Literally Sherlock Holmes meets Philip Marlowe and has a brainchild that is you.

Idk why you gotta rub shadow town flip in my face like I was p certain he was scum at the time and I admit I was wrong now. Do you want me to stop scumhunting because I was wrong or??? I have relooked at my reads. I have tried being more reasonable with Parama, but they still pushing me for bs reasons. I have tried being more reasonable with you, but you still refuse to do any scum hunting other than lining up lynches and AtEing. What I'm saying is there is a good chance of mhsmith being scum. Is he my preferred lynch today? Hell no. Is he a viable option for being scum if we near lylo with no scum flip? Obv, even if you're town I'm not gonna blindly go "Oh gee MDS was sure that is a Town/Town pair let me just go after every other pair".

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Well it's not like I came into this day with the intention of hardcore pushing Parama. I doubted my read on her during night, and I thought there was a good possibility she was town who just pushed Shadow wrongly like I did.

But then the combination of her coming right off the bat with a bs case on me + diffusion of responsibility and trying to blame shadow lynch on other people/shadow himself solidified to me that what she was doing is trying to push another mislynch like she did with Shadow, trying to brute force her way into endgame by buddying and calling her lover hardcore town, and pushing wagons elsewhere on town. Her push does not look like it's coming from a town mindset, like do you honestly think she believes half of what she's saying?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also if you're looking for meta on me, you won't find much recent since coming back from haitus except for this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69183

I have a bunch of older games, most of them I think are linked in my wiki page (but it kinda needs updating). If you're looking for a scum game, here's the one I'm most proud of on this site, in which I basically single-handedly carried the scum team:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=24646

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

It's like you're having a private competition with yourself to one up every previous post you made with a more scummy one.

it's only scummy if you think mds in particular is scum with one of pie/smith.

do you think this is the case?

Yes I've already said MDS-mhsmith is strong possibility.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

okay fair enough then
if smith is town, is it scummy?

Well it's def anti-town. Too many people are going "mhsmith/pie are the town pair lets just lynch through the rest of the player list" making me think scum are trying to propel them easily to endgame while looking like they're making townie idea by identifying a town pair. It puts little effort into actually scumhunting but masks itself as ~contribution~.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Why can't it just be that MDS townreads the pair? Like if MDS was townreading the pair and nobody else was, would it still be scummy?

???

What are you even saying? That didn't happen THIS game. In an alternative universe where MDS has been scumhunting, has have valid reasons for her mhsmith-pie read, and has came up with an original idea of mhsmith/pie as the town pair, then I would not have called out MDS as scumny for the post. But even then the idea would still be anti-row.

The problem is that's not the reality of THIS game. I don't look at single posts, but a person's posts on a whole and the flow of the game.

Like I seriously have no idea wtf you're trying to get out of your line of questioning. Are you just asking random things? Or are you in favor of blindly lynching everyone but the mhsmith-pie pair? If it's the latter make it clear now, take a stance without being waffly.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Interestingly, you and inspector are the only ones here who think *I* am the scum and not Jester. Did you came up with that independently or did one persuade the other in your lover PT?

I mean we did talk about it in the PT, yes. I guess you can call it group polarization if you would like, though I think at some point in time we did reach the conclusion that you're scum independently, but were made more confident of it by talking to each other.

As for Jester, his flip right now would be a coin flip. Having ISOed him, I see no posts that give me a strong reaction in any direction. His lack of activity is not alignment indicative. What HS claims that he's lurking and comes in to chime, etc, I don't see it at all. Scum would be putting more effort into the game, town would be putting more effort into the game. How people have a strong desire for your pair to get lynched because they want Jester lynched is seriously beyond me - the only possible reason I can understand is "We need to get him out before a possible lylo because can't have a null deciding lylo", but no, some people have serious scumreads on him which is bizarre.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

parama has said some things that just don't make sense coming from scum, and was townread by far more dead townies than Arthur.

Oh right you made this point earlier and I forgot to comment on it. But idk why you're trying to insinuate? Vedith/Gamma died because Vedith left dance, I had a Shadow scumread wayyyy before Shadow or Maria scumread me, and Nahdia-Cerb died because half IC pair. Like even if I were scum and in a similar situation I would have killed Nahdia-Cerb because they're IC pair, not because they're scumreading me. I don't get ~scared~ of people scumreading me, I actually enjoy it a lot more because it lets me interact with people and better figure out their alignments (hence why I hate being IC).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also you're the one who came out of the gate during this day and said Parama's reaction during night in your PT looked fabricated, how do you turn around and do this:

parama has said some things that just don't make sense coming from scum

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I wasn't implying you killed IC pair because you were scared of them, I was trying to say that we should put some weight on the reads of confirmed townies.

No, we shouldn't. I'll trust my reads over anyone else's any day. Just because someone is confirmed town doesn't mean their reads mean anything. You can go ahead and preach about dead people's reads all you want, and if that's who you want to sheep go ahead. But as for me, I will only listen to myself and people who seem really competent about the game, whether they're dead or not, whether they're confirmed town or not.

If you would read my posts today, you would realize that I have drastically changed my mind on almost every slot in the game over this day phase, and reasons as to why.

Okay, so do you still think Parama's reaction during night was contrived or not? Can you please point me to some posts she has made today that you feel "scum can't make"? Because all I see is the terrible push on me.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I feel like her asking so many times whether she was ok to leave was just her gauging the waters to see if town would mind.

Umm, that's partly exactly why I'm scumreading her. She's trying to demonstrate she's town via acting in a way that town wouldn't think scum would act. But the fact she has went over it so many times while still seeming survivalistic at points indicates to me she's intentionally doing this. She seems like a nice person, and I understand that. However from my POV it still looks like she's heavily employing a certain playstyle to appeal to town. She's here enough that she could spend the time to instead scumhunt more. I think in her catch up she mentioned something about people not caring when she posts reads or something, but that is most def not true. In fact, the few glimpses of her I liked was early on in like the first day when she seemed to actively be trying to figure out the game and I thought it was looking genuine.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

also, it is reasonable that she would hold the belief that no one cares about her reads when she's been pushing Jester-town the entire game and no one except Vedith gave her any time of day about this read.

No - not really. There's a difference between not agreeing with something and not caring about something. Just because people don't agree with her reads, people still were commenting about it and trying to engage with her. I don't feel like her jump from giving reads -> please lynch me to be genuine, it feels fabricated. The AtE part I have much less of a problem with, it really doesn't concern me that much, it's more of a playstyle thing (of course if you're ~only~ using AtE to the exclusion of trying to figure the game out that's a different matter of talk - and which applies to MDS).

Who do you think would be most likely scum with jester?

if Jester is scum, I think it's Jester, Parama, +1.

I mean between a null read that's been inactive and a person that's actively trying to push another mislynch on account of made up bs it's pretty obvious who you should go for. You can make the association and relationship hunt after a scumflip, but right now it's extremely important we lynch a person who has the highest chance of flipping scum so we don't enter lylo.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

What's the issue with SAD? I was liking him on review.

I'm liking myself too!

he's said a lot, but when I actually look at it from the top I'm a bit concerned about the way he focused almost entirely on MDS and S_S' pair to the near exclusion of any other push and I'm a bit concerned that I could be biasing towards him because he posts in a very logical style that resonates with me a lot.

Do I tend to tunnel a bit on people? Yes. But were those my strongest scumreads at that point? Yes. I actively keep a tier list of people in my head whenever I'm playing a game, it's not that I ~ignore~ people. It's just that people in the top or in the middle null pile do not interest me enough, unless I catch something from their posts that I want to comment on. I'm always reevaluating reads when I read, but usually I like just reading the interactions with people and focusing on the people I want to push, or interaction with people who are scumreading me. It was extremely boring during the first day because a lot of people were waving me as town, and I hate that because it narrows down the people I am interested in interacting with.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Pie can I have a concrete read on mhsmith from you on where you currently stand?

And while you're here, Dunn and Kagami, how are you reading each other right now?