Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[MathBlade]

MathBlade replaces in for LmkGuy!

Many thanks to them~

Hi all!

Getting ready for work will read tonight afterward.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

I'll also hammer if scum-saru gets cold feet. FTR I still don't think Thor is scum though, would have been better to get saru or lmk today.

...Why the hell would you hammer a townread after announcement of a replace in?

If anything you would want to give a replacement time to interact with people before nightfall and a chance to see if the read on your replacement lines up.

[MathBlade]

Based on just this page it is either Karnos+Lowell or Thor is scum with someone off the wagon. Karnos's reason post feels icky.

Gotta go.

[MathBlade]

Because the Thor wagon wasn't going anywhere, we were near deadline, Thor could have been busing, Thor could have been town... but mal's flip reinforced my opinion of Thor being scum.

You weren't on Thor...you were on Saru - the leading wagon. Thor also hopped on mal when he was the third smallest wagon - why would he do that if he were bussing? He also switched earlier than you.

If anything, your hop onto the wagon looks worse than his.

Why did mal's flip reinforce your scum!read on Thor?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8449770 Thor/Saru were my main picks for scum. They both still are, but Thor has moved up a notch and has a viable wagon while Saru doesn't.

As to why it solidified my scum read of Thor, re-read this page: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=750

Thor was pushing the wagon and convinced me to ignore my hesitations, such as the fact that lynching a lurker would cause us to miss out on a claim & reads.

FWIW, Nero was the one who started the wagon. Nero/Saru team isn't out of the question, but I think it's just as likely that scum!Nero might divert a wagon away from town Saru so we can misslynch Saru later. TBH if we could just lynch Thor, Nero, & Saru I'm fairly confident 2 of the 3 will flip red.

Thor is the lynch for today, it's too late to second guess.

Didn't read the link but you don't vote a scumread just because they have a viable wagon you make cases and then see who agrees with you. Mindset there isn't townie.

Second paragraph need to read to see what you claim Thor pushed but the second half of that is true.

It isn't worth anything of who started the wagon unless they did so for a scummy reason. There is also the possibility that Nero townread Saru.

And it isn't too late to second guess at all. Speed lynches and no lynches are a thing.

I know I had to go but that post pisses me off.

[MathBlade]

@Thor not sure what lesson needs to be taught here but not claiming is very antitown. Cases in Mafia can be dumb and stupid. I got mislynched on another site for a word "the" in my post. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[MathBlade]

I'll also hammer if scum-saru gets cold feet. FTR I still don't think Thor is scum though, would have been better to get saru or lmk today.

...Why the hell would you hammer a townread after announcement of a replace in?

If anything you would want to give a replacement time to interact with people before nightfall and a chance to see if the read on your replacement lines up.

That's literally the reason I'm waiting, to give you time to weigh in. I'm saying I'll hammer to avoid NL. This is.... obvious. If it's not Thor it's you, so I'll leave it to you to decide where my vote should go.

Still it work but this is OMGUS at its worst. You are saying I am a bad player because I have a gut read on one page. If you want to vote me then vote me. Threatening to vote me doesn't scare me at all because I am town.

You said so after replace without mentioning my replace in at all. You are just pissed I pointed out something scummy you did so now you want to vote me.

I don't decide where votes do you do. And I scumread based on what you do. Threatening me with a vote does nothing except show how either
A) Scumflaily
Or
B) Weak of a player you are.

So play. I will post longer reads tonight.

[MathBlade]

All of it when I get home after a late meeting tonight. I always read on replace in.

[MathBlade]

HAMMER. WOW. WHY ARE YOU STALLING?

If I think Thor is scum after I read I would also do intent to hammer but I am going to read. Wanting to know wtf is going on is not stalling.

[MathBlade]

Reading now.

[MathBlade]

Iron is town for LOLHAMMER threat, even if knighty is a better choice.

If alp is town, either knighy or penguin (both?) is trying to pocket him.

Wtf is this?

[MathBlade]

Penguin nervously unvoting because he doesn't want to see his partner who is a mafia PR getting lynched.

PenguinPower? More like PenguinPanic

This too. Lots of terribad.

[MathBlade]

If you don't know my reason(s) how do you know its good or bad?

You said your reason was a gut scum read, hating an avatar, and wanting to see how he reacted, so I know your reasons and I am just saying that there are better reasons to push someone off so early in the game.

Blah more terribad. Still RVS at the time of the posts/reasons given.

[MathBlade]

Oooh, someone was at L-1 with an intent to hammer! We must be out of RVS!

Wait, what case or serious vote was presented?

Very strong town read here.

[MathBlade]

Man its Page 2. You should have at least 7 townreads, 3 scumreads and the other 3 null by this point (/s).

town

1. LmkGuy
3. Nero Cain
5. PenguinPower
10. cmitc1
12. Knighty Knight
13. Tracer

Null

2. Saru
4. karnos
7. malpascp

Scum

8. aronagrundy
6. ironstove/9. Lowell
11. AlpacaAlpaca

Am I doing it right?

Townread here. Will be fun to play with you

[MathBlade]

No, it's not a website, it's code I run locally on my machine and it's not user friendly at all as I wrote it for my personal use.

Answer me this: what language(s) did you code it in? Keep in mind you are speaking to a computer programmer.

public function determineAlignmentOfPlayer(Player player){

var response = player.askQuestionToThem();
if (response.truthful)
examineReadOnPlayer();

}

[MathBlade]

Oh my blinking god.
Why were people discussing about Nero's placement of his readlist?
This is going to be one of

those

games isn't it?

It is a shame Tracer replaced out and is now Thor because RVS is pretty townie will wait and see what comes up to cause Thor wagon.

[MathBlade]

304 From Lowell is horrible especially the ending. Practically screams "No one is going for mislynch candidate one let's go for mislynch candidate two. This means Fire Assassin likely town Lowell likely scum.

[MathBlade]

Greetings all, read the last two pages (or a page and a half, however you care to parse it)

Unvote: AlpacaAlpaca
Vote: Karnos

Explains vote on me via claiming a townread on Iron, then tosses out that townread discussion gak. Yeah, right.

The wagon on me appears to be based on activity for a slot that eventually replaced out - the defense rests.

What else is happening right now?

Tracer read validated. In Wake's game Thor didn't be so confrontational.

[MathBlade]

304 From Lowell is horrible especially the ending. Practically screams "No one is going for mislynch candidate one let's go for mislynch candidate two. This means Fire Assassin likely town Lowell likely scum.

I am so lost on how you got to this.

Look at the last paragraph. This was in day one.

He says no one was biting on Knighty Knight (the slot you replaced into) so decided to push Lmk (my slot). I know I am town. The motivation is wrong too. On day one of you have a strong scum read you explain why or push them. Not "ohhh no one will bite". Scummy as fuck.

[MathBlade]

I'm not sure how anyone can say that that play was similar to my refuse to share irrelevant reads in this game. I doubt saru would pull this BS as scum, because it's so easy to prove wrong, yet nevertheless he is spewing BS that makes no logical sense. I think he is just town that was sore from losing mini 1800 and wants to get me lynched so there is no chance of being fooled again. Unfortunetly, I am town this game, so he is just hurting town by pushing to lynch me.

Why don't you surprise us all with a reads list?

Perhaps I will. I don't like giving a full road map to scum...

From Mini 1800. So yes, you did say this. Also, the argument that I would want to lynch you because I'm "sore" from losing to you is silly and egotistic. You didn't even do anything in 1800, that was all Math coaching you. If anything, I wouldn't be sore because I beat Math just recently as scum in my previous game, so I guess I got my revenge?

Also, nice strawman. I clearly said you're not scum hunting this game but are also not willing to provide town reads this game. So you're doing nothing. You're just sitting there, twiddling your thumbs, probably waiting for a town player to get wagoned to hop on.

Saru is strong town read.
Yes you beat me but I had House and Chuck nailed. If Titus hadn't have come in I would have had you too based on initial reads. Pretty much I think I can read you well.

And I agree on the Karnos scum read. How many games in a row have you drawn scum now Karnos? Shadowrun Mafia mini 1800...

[MathBlade]

No, it's not a website, it's code I run locally on my machine and it's not user friendly at all as I wrote it for my personal use.

Answer me this: what language(s) did you code it in? Keep in mind you are speaking to a computer programmer.

public function determineAlignmentOfPlayer(Player player){

var response = player.askQuestionToThem();
if (response.truthful)
examineReadOnPlayer();

}

Looks like flash. Poor bracing though.

Agreed phone posting without flashdevelop or flashbuilder sucks for code jokes. Was inside joke of if he lied I would know "in a flash".

[MathBlade]

372
nailing me would be obviously #2 on that list.

That is a scum slip from Karnos.

It implies there is something to nail him for ergo scum.

[MathBlade]

Omg my chest hurts apparently I am in this game as a spirit form long before I replaced in. Lolololol

Will not post so much now as I realize I am posting a lot and would end up talking about myself before I existed in this game say whaaaaa?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Lowell

I know this is a protest vote as it is too late in the day. Call me a crybaby or spoilsport but Lowell is scum IMHO.

[MathBlade]

There are 11 hours chillax. More than enough time for Thor to pull his stick out of his ass.

[MathBlade]

I am from the US California specifically but there is the AM. There is no reason to fret right now. Multiple people have said intent to hammer. So no harm done in my protest vote.

[MathBlade]

I believe Thor's claim.

bji I waffle on but Lowell and Karnos need rope badly.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Thor665

There is no way two trackers exist.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 3.1

Not Voting

(10) - MathBlade, Saru, Nero Cain, karnos, PenguinPower, ironstove, aronagrundy, Lowell, bji, Thor665

With

10

players eligible to vote, it’s

6

to lynch!

Day 3 will end in

(expired on 2016-11-27 13:26:58).

Mod Notes:

None!

I will note that *NEITHER* of Saru or Iron were able to provide a case (and Karnos' case...yeah, seriously now, and oh look, derp empty from Bji).
But some lackwits managed to argue that I was the one being anti town.

Claim: Tracker
FA went nowhere last night

Derpy dee everyone - let's dance in the derp stain of your terribkle play.
Karnos and Bji wagpns accepting flail votes now.

This needs rope so fucking hard. I can't believe I got fooled goddamn it.

[MathBlade]

Fire Assassin has been killed.

He was a

Town Tracker

.

_ _ _

It is now Day 3.

The day will end in

(expired on 2016-11-27 13:26:58).

And I can't even quote the right post.

*sigh*

[MathBlade]

also saru is probably scum too for saying he'll hammer and promptly disappearing

No, I purposely chose not to hammer because I believed Thor's claim. Which I regret now.

Also, Lowell said he was going to hammer if I got cold feet, but never did. That pretty much confirms scum!Lowell to me. He's after Thor.
VOTE: Thor665

I agree. Between that and the fact he said I was a bad player for expressing a gut scumread on him. Reads evolve but someone's skill level isn't dependent on how they read you specifically.

Karnos+Lowell+Thor ftw

[MathBlade]

Not on til late tonight.

[MathBlade]

@Karnos why did you feel we needed to end the day?

are you kidding? been trying to lynch this scum since day one. not going to slowplay it and risk someone getting cold feet.

That means shit. In 1800 I bussed you the entire time and practically taught you my bussing strategy so you know this is a flawed argument and you bring it up why?

[MathBlade]

@Karnos why did you feel we needed to end the day?

are you kidding? been trying to lynch this scum since day one. not going to slowplay it and risk someone getting cold feet.

That means shit. In 1800 I bussed you the entire time and practically taught you my bussing strategy so you know this is a flawed argument and you bring it up why?

I still expect an answer.

[MathBlade]

I guarantee I would not be lynched ever. If we lynch me we deserve to lose.

I am not trying to "lead". I asked Karnos a question. Scumhunting is a thing. As mentioned earlier I suspect Karnos and Lowell. The question becomes why don't you want me to post?

[MathBlade]

I am definitely split between last scum in Sara or Lowell, it is really hard to narrow down, Lowell's play has been so poor and anti town I can't believe a real town player is responsible for it yet I can also believe I saw that stupid weak bus attempt from Saru when he built a case on thor yet at d2 he was parking his vote on lowell

Last scum?

Thor - Saru/Lowell + ?

At work gtg but will read later.

[MathBlade]

Apology accepted. If anything it assures my townread on you. I asked that question not for the answer but how you would respond. If you feel I was out of line please let me know how but for the game let's move on. If I was out of line I apologize.

I strongly believe Karnos is trying to be manipulative rather than hunting. Lowell tried to say I suck based on gut read and after I call him out on it he has been silent. However with Lowell that could be wounded ego where as Karnos did not interact with my earlier question.

I was posting organically as I had thoughts so anyone could have hopped in and said "Hey Math what about X?" FA interacted a smudge but no one really did.

I am also of the opinion that no lynch is better than lynching town in a game with even town odd scum. The game is built in with one no lynch.

Worst case scenario is 10-3,8,6,4
Vs 10,9,7,5,3

Same amount of days.

If it was odd v odd I would agree. I explicitly hate site meta that says you have to hammer. More than likely Karnos was bussing.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: MathBlade is scum.

Where did this come from? Surely not just OMGUS?

And please, for the love of god, don't say it has something to do with 1800 ...

If Lowell isn't scum bji is.

[MathBlade]

Like I'll admit I'm not the best at explaining why someone is a scum read because a lot of it comes down to analyzing syntax and actions in past games so it really sounds ridiculous when I say in their scum game they changed vote actions 46 times but in their town game they made 16 actions as one of the elements in their scum read, so I don't bother mentioning it all I can try to do is look for reasons in their current game to help illustrate my reads

Would you like recent games as each alignment for me?

I intentionally try to keep my meta similar so it would be fun for me if you can find a difference.

[MathBlade]

Thor claimed at like 6am my time (EST) when I was getting ready to head to college. I didn't see the claim until I left my class which was on my mobile 10 minutes before the deadline (I never mobile post, fwiw). I figured it would be better not to take the chance of lynching a PR, basically. Nothing more to it.

This is clearly a lie because no college student gets up at 6 am. Also no college student goes a whole day without checking every possible source of information on their phone numerous times.

j/k It's not

clearly

a lie, but it's no better or more verifiable than Lowell's non-reason for not hammering. Also MathBlade ...

I believe Thor's claim.

Why? Why did you believe Thor's claim?

I agree that all these refusals to hammer are ... interesting.

I have a long flame post I wrote while night was out I'm gonna a paste it here so I can get banned from this game

Please don't.

I said earlier why I did. I had a townread on the tracer slot and when Thor replaced into it it stayed and he was different than Wake's game.

[MathBlade]

Honestly players like you math are the most toxic element in mafia scum because you act and play like you have read all of the information to make decisions and have an impact but in reality you are like one of those ppl that get their news from Yahoo Frontpage yet you feel knowledgeable enough to argue about world issues with others and leave people like me astounded and angry and wondering where you get the idea that it is OK to open your mouth

Yes sometimes I can be arrogant. Stuck up. Rude. Unwavering. I have heard it all. However usually the more resistance the more right I am. (Not always) look at the recent cancelled Theme game 4/10 scum nailed d2.

Sometimes however I am wrong. Like Wake's game. I just didn't believe Titus had guilties she had not confirmed town. I take responsibility for failures and do learn. But being loud isn't toxic. What is toxic is when discussion is stifled and by saying I am toxic from one post is ridiculous. Please go for a walk or something destroy a pillow to release anger.

[MathBlade]

@Karnos why did you feel we needed to end the day?

Nero is a townread for asking this.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: MathBlade is scum.

Where did this come from? Surely not just OMGUS?

And please, for the love of god, don't say it has something to do with 1800 ...

I had some time this morning, so I read from MathBlade's replace.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1250

If you have time, take a look. It's very telling now that we know Thor's alignment.

Major red flag is how MathBlade chides Lowell's intent to hammer, insisting that he let MathBlade catch up first. Then MathBlade catches up, very slowly. The Lowell/MathBlade interactions first looked to me like scum MathBlade giving his partner an out, an excuse to not hammer. There is the Lowell is town scenario though, in which case I read MathBlade's post as a very defensive push to protect Thor for one more day, before pulling a full 180 based on the tracker flip.

The only thing bothering me is the number of people who failed to lynch Thor day 2 exceeds the number of possible scum. So between Nero/Lowell/Saru/MathBlade there are at least two town, possibly even three. This is why I am thinking Nero might actually be town, and through PoE I think MathBlade & Lowell are more likely scum than Saru.

This is telling of why Karnos is scum. He had time this morning and read something that he thought scumfirmed me and didn't share it and instead just votes. Giving replace in time is standard and the blame for not hammering when they said they would goes on those who said they hammer and no one else.

Yes I pulled a 180 on Thor based on concrete information. I admitted my mistake and owned up to that. However I will not take blame for other's mistakes. I posted as I caught up and no one hardly interacted. I made a mistake but no one arguing where I was wrong also contributed.

[MathBlade]

Lunch break is over. Karnos you will never lynch me this game. Go onto you next mislynch target because like a child my understanding of this game grows.

[MathBlade]

Mod please perform section 32B of the spoiled brat initiative

Hard claim Town innocent child at least one scum is here looking for a mislynch target.

I told you you weren't mislynching me.

[MathBlade]

@mod Translation I am distinctly asking for you to confirm me as the innocent child. Crumbs are in today and yesterday

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Lowell

I know this is a protest vote as it is too late in the day. Call me a crybaby or spoilsport but Lowell is scum IMHO.

Karnos is scum.

Here is my first crumb if anyone cares.

Scum is in Karnos,Lowell,Bji, iron stove in that order.

[MathBlade]

Now let's lynch karnos and Lowell.

Karnos who had a planned bus and Lowell who made up an excuse not to hammer.

Back to work for me but we are lynching inside of those four in exchange for my inevitable death.

[MathBlade]

I'm still pretty sure scum are among the nero:lowell:mathblade:saru pool. Lowell, assuming for the moment you are town, and mathblade is indeed confirmed IC, between nero and saru which one is most obvious scum?

No. just no.
This is terribad.

No one fake claims innocent child. You knew I was town and are setting up bias in your question. Stop being so scummy it is hard to get back to work

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Lowell

I know this is a protest vote as it is too late in the day. Call me a crybaby or spoilsport but Lowell is scum IMHO.

Karnos is scum.

Here is my first crumb if anyone cares.

Scum is in Karnos,Lowell,Bji, iron stove in that order.

Do you have a read on penguinpower? Is he obvious town?

You were completely wrong on your Thor read, after realizing that did *any* of your other reads change or are you just assuming it was a fluke?

Yes quit shopping for outside of those 4 at start of day.

We are lynching in that pile.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 4.3

MathBlade

(1) - ironstove

Not Voting

(7) - MathBlade, Saru, Nero Cain, PenguinPower, Lowell, Lowell, karnos

With

9

players eligible to vote, it’s

5

to lynch!

Day 3 will end in

(expired on 2016-11-30 07:11:29).

Mod Notes:

None!

Why is Lowell's vote twice?

Fixed. Sorry.

[MathBlade]

I want to vote saru here but the fact that I've been pushing on saru for three days and am still alive makes me think that's bad.

Going to relook at penguin, karnos, bj, and nero, probably in that order. I don't see iron as scum, I think that rant last page was genuine.

No. Karnos or you should be lynched today for a coordinated attack I predicted crumbed warned about and explained in meta form.

[MathBlade]

you use crumbs as scum all the time, I'm not sorry for voting you when you were acting like scum.

But anyway, lets win the game. I don't really see how your reads can be such polar opposite to my reads. Especially given that of the flips since you replaced in, my read on thor was 100% spot on.

I do it as both alignments. Again you know this.

You don't have reads. You did 1800 but not as well. If he would have flipped Mafia goon then you'd be town but the fact he was the mafia PR meant you were on opposite sides for cred. He was supposed to take you over and lynch you but you didn't kill a VT to give him a chance.

[MathBlade]

I want to vote saru here but the fact that I've been pushing on saru for three days and am still alive makes me think that's bad.

Going to relook at penguin, karnos, bj, and nero, probably in that order. I don't see iron as scum, I think that rant last page was genuine.

No. Karnos or you should be lynched today for a coordinated attack I predicted crumbed warned about and explained in meta form.

Yeah this is dumb. I've led coordinated attacks as scum before but I've never had a coordinated scum attack that blew its load on the first three votes on a wagon.

Blow its load is a strong term meant to impassioned. I have seen it done before and taught Karnos how to do it. It has all the same markers. By telling the truth I got scum to bite.

I am going to work it is plain as day. Can't wait for iron to take this home for town because he will get my wish of me not being in the game after today.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Karnos

[MathBlade]

You might just be scum ironstone.

Wow that post was horrible. Nero is obvtown.

[MathBlade]

Ironstove* autocorrect sucks sorry

[MathBlade]

Thor665 (6) - MathBlade, aronagrundy, PenguinPower, Saru, bji, karnos (LYNCH!)

like do you really think scum would pass up the opportunity to hard bus and get town cred here?

There's scum within PP, Saru, BJ and Karnos.

If I were to guess it would be PP and Karnos.

No PP is town and so is Saru.

Karnos is likely scum for that horrible day end hammer that didn't let us partner hunt.

[MathBlade]

You might just be scum ironstone.

Wow that post was horrible. Nero is obvtown.

So you think his "tomorrow is MYLO" is a slip that he knows I'll flip town.

Scum bussing right out of the gate is a thing too. So yeah...maybe its just Karnos + Iron.

I did not say that. *glares*

The post was horrible because no lynch did not cost a day and lynching for info is dumb and is IIOA.

My A was wrong but never choose info over analysis.

[MathBlade]

You might just be scum ironstone.

Wow that post was horrible.

Nero is obvtown.

HOLY HELL YOU'RE SO FUCKING BASDGHDASGHASDKJGHKLD;SA;HWEGHSoihgHOGI[WAEHOan

Stubborn obstinate pigheaded player there fixed.

Now vote obvscum Karnos who fell for my trap.

[MathBlade]

FYI now clear teams are emerging. This is a good sign. Pp's vote while I like it is utter shit as it is naked.

[MathBlade]

Yes he cut the day short and didn't let us partner hunt.

For a person making an argument about days you sure are hypocritical and wrong about when you apply it.

[MathBlade]

You can read back on D1 and D2 to determine that Karnos and Thor were not on the same team.

Anger doesn't prove shit nor does bussing early. Going to have to explain it like I am dumb.

[MathBlade]

So I take it you concede?

Or is this a joke?

Again if you think karnos is town make an argument.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade, I thought I was busing my partner, not town reading him.

In the interest of full disclosure, aronagrundy recruit me last night before he died as he thought I was pretty towny after the Thor flip. I won't immediately reveal the other neighborized players unless they choose to reveal themselves.

So moving on and playing the game in case ironstove is just being Town throwing a hissy fit because he isn't getting his way.

@Karnos when did you get the notification?

[MathBlade]

@Karnos when did you get the notification?

Last night. And it wasn't because arona thought he was towny (which is clear in that thread), so not sure why he said that.

1) This is supposed to be the next day.
Just got done with a game with a neighborizer in it and it was a normal and we were informed the daybreak.

2) I asked Karnos for a reason. I still want his answer.

Mod: If arona neighborized someone when would you send the message

[MathBlade]

I did read. I read where it said any questions ask in bold. So I did. Missed the addendum.

[MathBlade]

PM ing now.

[MathBlade]

@Karnos when did you get the notification?

Last night. And it wasn't because arona thought he was towny (which is clear in that thread), so not sure why he said that.

Appease me...when last night?

[MathBlade]

I don't know when he was added exactly, but his first post in the thread was at 8:24a CST.

How is this relevant or informative?

It is about determining motive for who would shoot the neighborizer.
If Karnos was added at day start today then that isn't a valid motive.
But if he was added yesterday at start motive exists.

It is a matter of determining what was said in that hood that caused him to die or something out here.

Since scum had daychat that day and if they knew they were going to kill the neighborizer due to the threat of it everyone would have townread him. No reason to scumread a future dead townie.

[MathBlade]

@Penguin since you outed yourself as a member when were you added?

[MathBlade]

Again that isn't an obvious fail.

Having an incorrect belief does not make future scumreads invalid.

So Penguin and Karnos both have motive to eliminate the neighborizer.

[MathBlade]

However if Karnos is scum it implies scum did not have knowledge FA was the tracker but killed him for a reason that was more important than a known neighborizer where as Penguin would have killed to shut it down immediately.

[MathBlade]

Then how would Karnos make a post in it since neighborhoods are night only? Does the neighborhood have daychat?

[MathBlade]

The member added day two are they alive or dead?

[MathBlade]

That definitely implies Karnos scum.

Karnos Thor + ? (Leaning lowell and stove is being loud) kill FA who greyIce bodyguarded since outed PR.

Karnos was added to neighborhood with FA which made doubly sure FA had to die.

It could be that with bodyguard cleared that they shot FA originally but the fact no one brought up why Thor wasn't dead makes Thor obv scum and Karnos ending the day before I could grill him makes me a bit salty.

[MathBlade]

I thought about claiming this, and I decided to do it because I don't see how it's damaging to the town.
I know I was blocked by role blocked, and not jail keep.
I know this because I was neighborized including with my action failing.

So I highly kind of doubt with what I know about setup that the person who neighborized me is also scum.
That would mean two scum targeted me night one.
which sounds highly doubtful.

This post confirmed the neighborizer as town.

FA being roleblocked means scum have a roleblocker and we know there was an encryptor.

FA I believe did not announce who the neighborizer was. This means that Karnos or Penguin Power are scum without a doubt unless they coincidentally hit one of the lurkiest players.

So it just becomes a matter of which.

[MathBlade]

Don't have to talk.

It becomes a matter of what is in that hood and why Karnos was added.

Furthermore someone had to know by day 3 Arona was the neighborizer to kill him.

[MathBlade]

Looking back at the order you said things happened in.

[MathBlade]

I was added at the start of D3.

So Penguin was added D3. It also explains why Arona was killed of all people given Thor scum.

[MathBlade]

Shits and giggles let's assume Penguin power is scum. I doubt both scum would bus their encryptor two days in a row.

VOTE: Penguin Power

[MathBlade]

This would make Karnos town. This would make Bji likely the other scum.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 2.22

Thor665

(5) - karnos, Fire Assassin, aronagrundy, bji, ironstove

(L-1!)

MathBlade

(1) - Lowell

Lowell

(2) - Saru, MathBlade

bji

(3) - Nero Cain, Thor665, PenguinPower

Not Voting

(0) - No one!

With

11

players eligible to vote, it’s

6

to lynch!

Day 2 will end in

(expired on 2016-11-11 12:47:28).

Mod Notes:

None!

Thor665 (6) - MathBlade, aronagrundy, PenguinPower, Saru, bji, karnos (LYNCH!)

@Penguin because I would believe Karnos because of the order. Ask order first then content. Scum don't know what you're up to if you ask a different question

[MathBlade]

We have 2 mislynches left, correct?

We have 8 right now mislynch means 6 which would be MyLO. So one.

[MathBlade]

Outside chance Penguin + Saru.

Nero unlikely as scum ended that day early. Which brings me to Karnos or bji.

One of Karnos or PP is scum leaning PP because of when Arona died.

[MathBlade]

Oh yuck. You're not really this bad, right?

p-edit

Why is 6 MyLo with 2 scum left?

Penguin + Lowell to mayhaps.

Oh really? Explain how Arona died then when others were pushing Thor louder.

[MathBlade]

Like, if I'm scum, I literally brought to your attention that I was the only one who could be scum.

Good job, PP. You are awesome at playing against wincon!

Yes. Because I was asking Karnos I was going to get to who was in the D3 spot. It'd come out regardless. Trying for townie points me thinks.

[MathBlade]

Oh really? Explain how Arona died then when others were pushing Thor louder.

I literally just said that I can't.

My phone didn't interrupt me.

[MathBlade]

Like, if I'm scum, I literally brought to your attention that I was the only one who could be scum.

Good job, PP. You are awesome at playing against wincon!

Yes. Because I was asking Karnos I was going to get to who was in the D3 spot. It'd come out regardless. Trying for townie points me thinks.

Ugh...I'm going to have a stove-tantrum.

So far, scum!me has:

1.) Openly stated that scum!Thor was his strongest town read
2.) Refused to lynch his strongest town lynch participating in causing a no lynch and calling attention to myself.
3.) Called myself out as part of the neighborhood when I could have refuted karnos' claim given he was scum read and I was townread.
3.) Afterwards, verbally vomited the neighborhood information, clarifying to scum!me's detriment, incorrect statements by MB that I could easily refute.

Why would scum!me do this? Answer this.

1) Yes. To try to save him since I and others townread you and encryptor is a powerful role.
2) Not as much as you think. I was the planned mislynch today. Lowell is also under heat for not hammering. Not a point. Again seems more like saving Thor one more day.
3) You could have. Yes but when Karnos flipped town then you'd be outed scum. Furthermore I was asking innocuous questions based on something Karnos said that made me think he was neighborized D3 not you. The truth would have been out eventually and you decided to be proactive.

[MathBlade]

If either of you lies about the neighborhood we lynch them.

[MathBlade]

Ugh...I'm done. I've made my points...your vote and logic are bad. Like, bad bad.

I agree that one of me and karnos is scum. Karnos is scum, and flipping him will give us one more mislynch to find the remaining Lynch me, and then you will be lynching karnos and have no buffer to find the remaining.

The rest of the town can decide now. I've made my case.

That is quite possible but my sister Titus gave me some advice of listen to your town reads. Stove was a tow lock before I pushed Karnos so I have calmed down and gave it a shot from a different angle.

One of you and Karnos is scum and the Arona kill N3 makes it much more likely it is you.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

Spiritually my vote is still on Penguin but I want the other players to contribute.

[MathBlade]

Lowell and Saru need to do something will be afk most of today.

[MathBlade]

No one hammer until I put together my last will please.

I am 99% sure I would be NK'd as conf town so I want to leave a big wall of final thoughts before I get killed.

[MathBlade]

Oh and also force Lowell to post something. I will need it for my last will.

[MathBlade]

BTW I'm a PR. But I haven't and don't plan to use my power tonight either.

So you are scum claiming? No way there are 5 PRs for town in a 10 town game.

[MathBlade]

Will explain in my last will.

Are you scum claiming? We know scum have a roleblocker from FA's claim. So Encryptor + roleblocker.

[MathBlade]

BTW I'm a PR. But I haven't and don't plan to use my power tonight either.

So you are scum claiming? No way there are 5 PRs for town in a 10 town game.

If I'm not a PR then you quit this site forever???

No. I don't respond to threats like that. I won't quit the site regardless of your alignment. If I quit it will be when I want to.

[MathBlade]

Not voting anywhere til Lowell gets on.

I don't accept your terms. Making terms to do things outside the game is against the site rules. If you really wanted to help "sucky" players such as myself you'd explain why doing some things is bad and help point out errors instead of being mean and trying to bully others into quitting the site. Regardless of alignment I always try to tell people how I think they can improve. I do not care for your attitude.

I will hunt how I hunt. Threats be damned.

[MathBlade]

My scum game is miles better than my town one yet I still point things out like don't vote in MyLO almost always no lynch. The better people get the better the site is. So you can put away the anger and explain.

You can also hard claim now actually.

If this does conf town you as you claim then you would die being the PR and I would make it into MyLO or hunting the last scum. So if you are confirmed then it is better for Town.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore I would have hammer ability in MyLO because that would be the rare situation where we do lynch as I would be clear.

[MathBlade]

BTW why are we lynching penguin instead of Nero????

I'm not threatening you, did I say I want to struggle you and grind your skull up to make into a stew? No. I was offering a wager to show you how I am not bsing

Wagers are against site rules. Therefore I refuse.

[MathBlade]

And it doesn't prove if you are bsing til after the game.

[MathBlade]

Maybe a negative utility PR?

Yes, arguably so because I need to be die for it to work and I want to stay in the game

Claim. Now.

[MathBlade]

Also I don't think we need a full claim from iron, fwiw. Feels like doing scum's job for them, whereas right now they have to guess. And if this is a scum gambit, who cares, he could as easily fakeclaim a whole role as a partial one.

Yes we do and I do not support a Nero lynch.

[MathBlade]

It isn't enough to prove he has a role he must prove he has that role and is town.

Tick tick stove.

[MathBlade]

Also I don't think we need a full claim from iron, fwiw. Feels like doing scum's job for them, whereas right now they have to guess. And if this is a scum gambit, who cares, he could as easily fakeclaim a whole role as a partial one.

If stove has a confirmable town role then we know last two scum in 6 players. Narrows down potential scums more than a negative utility power worth. And then he can steam roll. Absolutely worth it.

[MathBlade]

Back to work for me but I expect a claim ironstove.

5 PRs in a normal seems really sketch.

[MathBlade]

Zachstralkita - Town Jailkeeper
Gamma Emerald - Town Watcher
Manuel87-Town 1-shotBP
Dunnstral - Town Neighborizer
(From 1841)

FA - Tracker
GreyICE-BodyGuard
Arona Neighborizer
Me -- Innocent Child

Neighborizers cancel.
Tracker and Watcher cancel.
One shot BP and Jailkeeper cancel with Bodyguard and Innocent Child.

[MathBlade]

Roleblocker and Encyptor probably only PRs for scum. Balance would make sense.

And yes I am doing balance spec GreyICe that you said not to before but I am comparing it to previously reviewed games.

[MathBlade]

Explain why claiming a pr is beneficial to town besides satisfying you own selfish reasons? And I will actually consider it if you can prove my hard claiming is a higher value play than not revealing my role. (You cant)

Because if you are conf town then you die and one of us into one scum hunting/MyLO with power of hammer.

[MathBlade]

With that said also explain as Lowell pointed out why as scum I would even bother with this move if everyone was already town reading me? (again, you can't)

Because reads change and how this flip happens will sure as fuck change my reads.

[MathBlade]

Explain why claiming a pr is beneficial to town besides satisfying you own selfish reasons? And I will actually consider it if you can prove my hard claiming is a higher value play than not revealing my role. (You cant)

Because if you are conf town then you die and one of us into one scum hunting/MyLO with power of hammer.

The idea of you getting hammer and leading town doesn't seem like +EV

You town read the encryptor and forced us to no lynch, you haven't done anything this game for me to trust your decision making, sorry.

I made ONE mistake so far. I blatantly admitted it. I did not force us to no lynch I explained MY opinion. If anything Lowell did by not hammering when he said he would. There were a lot of people who didn't vote there. I refuse to be your personal punching bag because you are pissed that the conf townie doesn't agree with you.

Letting scum control the hammer is sure a hell of a lot more -EV. Let's assume I was dumb. There is a chance with you leaving your last will I become "not dumb". You also said you had to die for your power to activate I would love to test that. If you are vengeful then you can show off the reason for your extreme arrogance and take out a scum.

You say I haven't done anything to trust decision making while you have said so many people are definitively scum and then chastised, yelled at, insulted, or just berated people rather than explaining points.

You have claimed something no review board in their right mind would approve and then expect me to worship your reads? To just townread you?

A confirmed town in you or myself controlling the hammer is a hell of a lot more powerful than a vengeful or any other negative utility (as described earlier) PR because it forces scum to vote first.

Scum win games by hammering in MyLO or LyLO. It is one of their biggest tools

By you and I leaving last wills considering every valid combo

AND being confirmed

we take that tool from scum.

I am trying to work with you but you are being impossible. The smart play is to protect conftown at all costs if you are town. That is always the answer. Yet you do not.

[MathBlade]

To be quite clear I would rather lose and your arrogance be gone even if you were a cop of 5000 checks a night and mod made all results public.

I am hunting and trying to see the things you do and asking and trying to work with you and you do the equivalent of "look how big my appendage is". I assure you I have bigger ones in my drawers at home so put away the holier than thou, explain your reads and claim.

[MathBlade]

Yes, arguably so because I need to be die for it to work and I want to stay in the game

K, I'm still new and all, but I checked the wiki for normal roles and didn't see anything that requires one to die (except for bodyguard, but that's not what you are alluding to) for the role to activate.

There are a couple of others but none are more important than stopping scum from having the hammer tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

Never mind I stand corrected they took those out.

[MathBlade]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... rmal_Roles


Please explain which of these roles you are stove.

[MathBlade]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _modifiers

Unlikely but let's see what he says.

[MathBlade]

My guess would be some flavor of enabler... maybe. I dunno.

Iron, I think it makes sense to come out, but I don't really care. I just think it might be beneficial for town to be united, I think this back and forth between you and MathBlade is not terrible constructive.

I'd prefer to lynch penguin, but I'm fine with nero as well.

Enabler doesn't work because the rest of town (assuming for the moment Iron is town) would be VT. So he if is a X role enabler who the fuck cares? This game isn't about what PRs scum have anymore. We are all essentially VT. They can investigate, protect, or kill. The first is dumb as we'd all be VT, the middle is why?!?!?!, and the latter should only be the mafia kill. Scum cigs aren't normal. Enabler wouldn't cause iron to claim like that.

[MathBlade]

Wiki says that some Enabler's affect scum roles when killed. Pretty sure you linked that.

Did you read my last paragraph?

Scum have roles that fall into four categories
Investigative
Fuckup
Protective
Kill

Investigative -- Who cares?
Fuckup -- Again who cares bunch of VTs?
Protective -- why??
Kill -- Not applicable in Normal

There is literally no role in the normals that would cause iron to claim as he did. He has scum claimed.

[MathBlade]

Will work on my last will tonight but I want from everyone their list of reads in order of scumminess.
Exclude me and yourself.

Scummiest >> Towniest

[MathBlade]

Don't you dare hammer without my last will. Still at work.

[MathBlade]

Let me get my last will in. Will be done with work in approximately 5-6 hours. There is no reason to rush.

[MathBlade]

Ironstove you didn't answer my question.

[MathBlade]

Will work on my last will tonight but I want from everyone their list of reads in order of scumminess.
Exclude me and yourself.

Scummiest >> Towniest

@ironstove this question

[MathBlade]

Still missing Saru and Neros list.

[MathBlade]

Town

MathBlade

ironstove
Nero Cain

bji
Saru

Lowell

karnos

Scum

Penguin your vote is inconsistent. If Karnos is town you should be voting Lowell.

[MathBlade]

I still think math's case on penguin nails it, and I don't see anything he's done in response as town.

It is a dumb case. As scum, I would want to keep aron alive since he townread me, FA townread me, so everyone that aron added to the neighborhood could more easily be convinced that I was town. What did I gain by killing him? Oh, that's right, my current situation.

Dumb case is dumb.

Even if you buy his argument that the aron death was random, his attitude change today has been a 180.

Please point out said attitude change.

Either karnos or penguin or

both are scum

.

Bolded for emphasis: I think this might be the dumbest thing you've said.

Still with attacking Lowell. Then naked vote of Nero.

[MathBlade]

Which list do you believe in more. What you posted or assuming Karnos is town?

[MathBlade]

Which list do you believe in more. What you posted or assuming Karnos is town?

You are really killing my confidence that you are actually paying attention to this game.

I'm working on a massive comprehensive last will that takes into account the entire game. So summarily yes I am paying attention. It is not clear which you support only a seemingly unsupported unvote and vote combo. Where you just say if Karnos is scum he can "have it". That is not a case of believing Karnos is town.

[MathBlade]

You want us to believe that is what you think but I'm not seeing the explanation for the switch. That is what I am getting at.

[MathBlade]

Then you missed the comment on my scum read on karnos relying of tone, previous experience, and complex actions. K. Cool. Thanks.

I did not miss that post I referred to it above. That is not an explanation. Explain to me why you are reading Karnos as town.

[MathBlade]

Otherwise I could say I roll a dice and I scum read you relying on tone, previous experience, and complex actions. (The middle is non existent but the other two indicate that you are likely scum.)

[MathBlade]

Explain to me why you are reading Karnos as town.

I read karnos as not scum based on what I previously said. If karnos is not scum, then what I said about Nero/Saru must hold true. Thus, I vote Nero.

Explain it more so than meta.

[MathBlade]

Lots of unnecessary words.

1st wall: I guess we disagree. I think votes are the only thing that matter in the end, and karnos was weakly pushing Thor while voting elsewhere. I already said his D2 was bussing, and D3 had to happen given the claim. Literally said that right above.

2nd wall: Whatever. It was a quickhammer.
From Wiki:

is a technique (usually) used by scum to

secure a lynch by hammering a player before anyone can react.

No you didn't. Your scum read on Karnos was more than meta. Try again. Explain to me why you think Karnos is town.

[MathBlade]

That sir is a contradiction.

If either you or ironstove are town that is not the way to have a healthy site going forward. Let's assume my intelligence is that of a rock. The appropriate thing to do is explain it in further detail. Not insult the player suggesting you are scum for it.

Furthermore I will be dying tonight so "laying it all down on me" would be ridiculous as I would be dead.

As I told ironstove earlier I don't respond to threats or insults.

While you believe you have adequately answered the question I however do not.

You have said the only reason you scumread Karnos was meta.
Actions Karnos have not taken are not "meta".
You scum read him for the quick hammer. Assuming it is a "complex" action (which typing a vote is not complex) it does not qualify as meta.

Therefore you are in my opinion contradicting yourself.
So explain it again to me. Why do you think Karnos is town?

[MathBlade]

At this point, I'm pretty sure penguin is town.

You made a list where Penguin was your second scum read and then he made one post in between attacking Lowell.

What made you change to then town read Penguin?

[MathBlade]

How easy it is to lynch penguin and how quickly people jumped on board the penguin wagon. I'll revisit penguin if nero flips town.

He likely will. It's Penguin and Lowell from my point of view ironstove.

[MathBlade]

I meant respond as in do things different. It's a colloquialism in such that the site has not adjusted to mine yet.

And yes, each person should be talking about what makes a game/site healthy during games. It is not an attack on character. It is saying that the act of insulting another person who scum reads you calling them dumb etc is 1) Not healthy and 2) Doesn't "bring anyone to your cause". It makes people not care.

Pedantic often solves scum games, however this is not pedanticness. This is you deliberately lying just like bji pointed out before.

[MathBlade]

So, you're conf!town. Great. Stop trying to lead town like you are an awesome scumhunter/townfinder. You're not. At this point, you are confirmation of one less scum, and one less town. So triggering me.

I'm not trying to sound "awesome". I am merely stating an opinion. I am naturally a "loud" personality.

However people here are consistently not explaining themselves. They are saying "x is town" and then just switching without explanation. This is not something that continue. It gives scum room to breathe.

I may not be awesome but I am sure as hell going to accurately detail every last bit and then let people attempt to rip it to shreds or give something to think about.

Where as you have oh yeah "meta" "not meta" case. You aren't explaining any of your reads.

[MathBlade]

Pedanticness is not a word. Keep trying to sound smart.

I'm not deliberately lying. Flip me a find out how wrong you are.

As I said to karnos in the neighborhood thread, I'm about to go IS rage on you.

Last time someone said how wrong I was they flipped scum. Wanna keep baiting me sans explanation that's fine. I'll just keep scum reading you and you can yell and scream and such and I will remain perfectly calm while you try to summon the air storms of rage.

[MathBlade]

How easy it is to lynch penguin and how quickly people jumped on board the penguin wagon. I'll revisit penguin if nero flips town.

This is incorrect. It is not easy to lynch Penguin. People are branching off (IMHO incorrectly to Nero). Lowell is bussing here for creds IMHO because he probably expects you to push the nero mislynch through and then he could probably adjust and say "Oh look stove was wrong" my scum read is now stove and Karnos...etc.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: All potential combinations

Saru	Nero Cain
Saru	Karnos
Saru	Penguin Power
Saru	ironstove
Saru	Lowell
Saru	bji
Nero Cain	Karnos
Nero Cain	Penguin Power
Nero Cain	ironstove
Nero Cain	Lowell
Nero Cain	bji
Karnos	Penguin Power
Karnos	ironstove
Karnos	Lowell
Karnos	bji
Penguin Power	ironstove
Penguin Power	Lowell
Penguin Power	bji
ironstove	Lowell
ironstove	bji
Lowell	bji

Spoiler: Vote Breakdown

So above I put all possible of potential scum teams there are and I plan on breaking it down.

Now from everyone's answers I'm extracting certain data, but I didn't want people to know what data I was extracting til I was ready to tabulate it:
The top two reads are being labelled as "scum team" the third is wiggle and the rest are "hard town reads" as will be explained in a moment.
Karnos 1746 -- Scum team Penguin and Nero / Wiggle Lowell / Hard Town reads (Saru, bji, ironstove)
bji 1747 -- Scum team Nero and Penguin / Wiggle Lowell / Hard Town reads (Saru, karnos, ironstove)
Penguin Power 1754 -- Scum team Karnos and Lowell / Wiggle Saru / Hard Town reads ( bji, Nero, ironstove)
ironstove1776 -- Scum team Nero and Penguin / Wiggle Saru / Hard Town reads (lowell, bji, Karnos)
Lowell 1778 -- Scum team Penguin and Karnos / Wiggle bji / Hard Town (Nero, Saru, iron)
Nero and Saru -- No reads lists yet.

Now let's break this information down as to who is scumread by who:
Saru -- 2 Wiggles (Penguin Power and ironstove) and 3 hard towns (Karnos, bji, Lowell)
Nero Cain -- 4 Scum Reads (Karnos, bji, ironstove, Lowell) - Hard Town from Penguin Power
Karnos -- 3 Scum Reads (Penguin Power, Lowell) - Hard towns (bji, ironstove)
Penguin Power -- 4 Scum reads (Karnos, ironstove, lowell, bji) -- No Wiggles or Hard Towns
ironstove -- No scum reads -- 4 Hard Towns (Karnos, bji, penguin power, lowell)
Lowell -- 1 Scum read (Penguin Power) -- 2 Wiggles (Karnos and bji) -- 1 town read (iron stove)
bji -- No scum reads -- One wiggle (Lowell) -- Town reads( Karnos, Penguin Power, ironstove)

Spoiler: Explanation of the vote breakdown

The biggest thing here is that if ironstove is town one or more of his reads are likely off. (For the moment I'm assuming ironstove is town and generally a meanie when he doesn't get his way.) Generally the closer to lylo it gets the more push there is on someone with a right read. Not enough to get them lynched but enough to generate suspicion. Bji is what I would expect of a vote count of a townie whose reads who are more accurate than ironstoves. Someone has to push him and it has to be someone who would likely exist into the next day. Since bji and iron both have the same scum team likely only one of those is right.

This means likely only one of Nero and Penguin is scum and the other is town. Of the two, ironstove is much more adamant that Nero is scum. Both Nero and Penguin attacked bji in the mid 1000s range. However Penguin was the one who was caught deliberately lying about the state of the policy lynch 1089 This would make bji the counter wagon for Thor and make him town.

However scum with day talk active don't all hop on bji and with the encryptor found that just doesn't happen. Especially when Thor only had two votes 1100. Ironstove (assuming stove is town for the moment) seems to have the right idea in asking why bji was being lynched.

Then Lowell hops on and seems to be the "don't lynch the townie vote" to try to give some legitimacy while pushing a mislynch in Saru. In 1105 He says the "bji" slot is basically town. Then why does Lowell have it in wiggle now. Not a single post addresses them in particular nor is their "penguin" read supported. This looks like more he can see where the wind is turning towards his buddy being lynched and wants to be on it "early".

In contrast Nero in post 92 looks like a genuine list of read mistakes. Scum generally "spread out their fake reads". So as if they are ever used they can justify scumreading one of the scum people. In this case it's just so bad it has to be town. Mainly Nero's RVS is way too antagonistic to be his scum game. He's almost bragging.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8008985
Here he just says you are lying. A lot less antagonistic. (Granted it's a replace in and not a direct copy). When Nero is town, he is antagonistic. Furthermore Nero in 796 wouldn't ask ironstove to stop role fishing. It would be too much scum interests here.

Furthermore, Thor's vote at the start of day two was Karnos sitting. This as much as an ironstove+Karnos team makes sense to me in gut Thor and Karnos were at each others throats. I pressured him at first to see if he was replicating 1800 a bit but how Karnos has acted after the innocent child reveal makes it clear it's not 1800. He'd have been more "panicky" IMHO. Even in 1800 some of his posts had that "urgency" do it now bit. Either Thor gave him some meta tips or Karnos is probably town as much as that set up reminded me of 1800. I think I'm just biased to reading Karnos as scum. (With a large caveat of if Penguin Power flips town Then look at Karnos again with a vengeance.)

This also makes sense with myself, Saru, and Nero being the only ones off of Thor at the end of D2 (Assuming Penguin+Lowell+Thor) Saru would be AFK a lot toward the day end. I and Saru townread Thor (incorrectly) and Nero was the head of the bji wagon. If Nero was going to let Thor be no lynched it's a hell of a lot worse to post and not lynch at the end of the day. It should throw suspicion on him. Instead scum are "pocketing" Nero since someone else suspects Nero there is no reason to push there.

Now take a look at 3.3 PenguinPower was on it early after not being on it D2. It's "Damn it Thor. You fooled me." This reeks of inevitability. Furthermore in combination with his setup spec post about a rolecop is highly unlikely. Scum if they had one would have used it also on FA to see if he was okay to let go and mislynch. Instead they roleblocked, claimed his role, and killed him. It shows that penguin power isn't investing thoughts into his theory when FA confirmed their was a roleblocker.

Now furthermore, take a look at the opening after Thor was lynched. It was determined that I was the threat. In 1379 Lowell leaves off pushing Saru. Both he and I had the same explanation as to why we didn't vote Thor. However I was the more popular one. I intentionally revealed at L -2 because scum wouldn't want to be at the end of the wagon that was forming on me. There was an intentional plot to get me mislynched of which Thor would have suggested in night chat. Thor knows I am active crumber (see Wake's mafia) of which I have played with his scum meta (shame on me again for not recognizing it but kudos to him for altering it) and probably found it as soon as I replaced in and asked Lowell and Penguin Power to push. Between his inconsistency when Lowell should have been pushing Saru but instead pushes me means he is looking for an active mislynch and doesn't use his limited posts to actually hunt.

Now examine the Arona kill. This one directly leads to Penguin Power OR Saru. However Penguin didn't even try to think about who killed the townies and why. Half of the game is who posts what as scumreads and the other half is who dies. If you aren't focusing on who dies and why there's something wrong.

FA was a claimed PR and then GreyICE died. That's not indicative. What is indicative is that FA was roleblocked. It tells us that one of two things happened:
At that point scum had no idea of the other PRs and roleblocked and attempted to kill him
OR
Scum roleblocked FA and killed someone else and GreyICE either died as a result of being targeted or choosing that target.

There is also the possibility that Saru scum killed both GreyICE and Arona. Simply for suspecting him. Then the only potential partners for Saru in this case would be Penguin Power or ironstove. Karnos, bji, and Lowell wouldn't use their posts to townread Saru. (Note:Lowell's townread of Saru is unexplained push that.) Either way by lynching Power Penguin we take out a lot. Too much townreading would indicate a "WHY AREN'T YOU DEAD?" question.

It is also fishy as fuck that three people who are widely townread have the exact same scum team. (Karnos, bji, and stove) Note that Karnos again was floated around today. Similar to the bji argument Karnos is actually a threat because of where he is instinctively placing Lowell. The only way I see Karnos scum is with ironstove and in that case, we're fucked because ironstove could claim scum (like he did and I think I figured out why but I'm actually not saying why)

Spoiler: GIVE ME THE TLDR MATH NOW!!!!!!

I only see certain combinations possible and in order of priority those are:
Penguin Power + Lowell
Saru + Penguin Power
Saru + ironstove
Karnos + ironstove

Hard town reading : bji, Nero
Light town read: ironstove
Waffle House: Karnos
Light scum read: Saru (by night actions only by posts he seems townie)
The likely scum team: Penguin Power + Lowell

Ironstove, we agree on Penguin (or used to before your random unexplained Penguin is town bit). Let's lynch penguin today and then you can scream Nero from the fence later
Consider this my last will and I has hammers.

[MathBlade]

...You can say my reads are bad. I am not saying I am awesome. I am laying my thoughts on the table. Explain yours and why you believe them if you think differently. Show people where I am wrong.

[MathBlade]

And, for fucks sake, vote me already if you're going to be that bad.

No. I has hammer. All will give reads and post. Waiting on Nero and Saru

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Penguins don't like walls

lol no one called it a policy lynch.

You lie.

We are essentially voting this guy right now due to him being active on site, but not posting on the thread.

Did not use the words "policy lynch" but clearly is saying that the vote is a policy lynch.

I oppose the mal train because there is no actual reason to lynch him other than he is not playing the game.

Same thing. LmkGuy's position is clear.

I guess I'm fine with a policy lynch, because that's what this feels like rn.

Explicitly called it a policy lynch.

Oh holy shit though.

I looked at mal's recent posts. Whatever you can be town. This is fake VLA shit.

Vote: mal

Jesus. Don't claim, just die. Fucking fake VLAers. This doesn't just make you scum, it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL. Welcome to the hell of "I will expect you to post content at all times in all games I am a part of regardless of VLA status."

This is clearly a policy lynch vote. Clearly states that he has no belief that Mal was actually scum and just wanted him to die because he is "garbage who abuses site rules".


Literally

everyone except you

justified their vote as a policy lynch vote, either explicitly, or implicitly by saying that they weren't sure that Mal was scum but that he should die because no one should go on V/LA in one game and still participate in other games, because that's lame.

Thor came

close

with posts like:

So you are saying it's perfect to push mal and get a last minuted claim if he is a town power role? What side are you on?

The one looking to sort slots and scumhunt.
The reverse of your complaint towards me is that you are perfectly fine doing absolutely nothing to a slot that is barely here - also known as the exact reason scum lurk as a strategy. Like, if he's scum, you're giving him exactly what he wants. if he's town, you're accepting that he is playing to help scum.
I mean, if you're telling me I could just declare v/la and auto get to lylo - let me know.

He's not really saying that Mal is scum or town, though; he's making a (bogus) argument for why to lynch Mal either way. And later:

Of Malp's 11 posts - almost half (4) are just discussing his multiple v/las)
One is going "/first"
One is an RVS vote.
One is complaining RVS is over.

I mean, seriously.

This reads to me like anti-evidence for a reads-based vote of Mal, pointing out that Mal had basically no activity so we can't really infer alignment from anything he actually did. Leaving the only reason for voting him being policy.

You now look worse than Thor to me, and that's saying something.

UNVOTE: Thor
VOTE: Nero Cain

Here you go Penguin.

[MathBlade]

Nero said it wasn't a policy and it was but it was specifically directed towards you as well

[MathBlade]

Here are my reads. Scummiest on top to towniest on bottom.
Penguin
Nero
Lowell
Iron
Karnos
Bji

Lowell + Saru and Lowell + Nero are now valid teams but very low chance.

Pretty much bji is conf town or we are conf fucked. If I die and PP is town bji has hammer.

[MathBlade]

@Penguin Explain your reads.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 4.16

karnos

(1) - Nero Cain

PenguinPower

(3) - Saru, Lowell, karnos

(L-2!)

Nero Cain

(3) - ironstove, bji, PenguinPower

(L-2!)

Not Voting

(1) - MathBlade

With

8

players eligible to vote, it’s

5

to lynch!

Day 4 will end in

(expired on 2016-11-30 07:11:29).

Mod Notes:

None!

No. you never have and said you did. When you flip scum I will be so happy and if you flip town stove will be free to push Nero as I will be dead.

Lowell is the one person I don't want in MyLO/LyLO. Nero is at least playing but probably town.

[MathBlade]

Here are my reads. Scummiest on top to towniest on bottom.
Penguin
Nero
Lowell
Iron
Karnos
Bji

You see this stove? Another person who sides with you it is Penguin and Nero.

Yet you say Penguin is too easy. Tell me your thoughts.

[MathBlade]

PP's "case" that requires Karnos to be town and Saru to be scum is silly by itself but if he actually believed that he'd be voting Karnos.

You mean Saru right? Doubtful PP would vote his townread.

[MathBlade]

PP's "case" that requires Karnos to be town and Saru to be scum is silly by itself but if he actually believed that he'd be voting Karnos.

You mean Saru right? Doubtful PP would vote his townread.

Karnos only become a town read when I flipped scum, wich I haven't and I won't, so I think its really weird how he just started to town read Karnos. I think it's likely a PP/Karnos team and that's the real reason he isn't voting him.

If Nero flips town then stove would hit you hard (more than likely)
If PP flips town stove tunnels Nero again at which point we hope it is Nero+Saru because I would be dead.

[MathBlade]

Unlikely. Karnos scum with PP would be voting Nero here. Voting PP seems against self interests. With how heavily stove town reads Karnos (which I do and don't get) PP + Karnos is extremely unlikely.

[MathBlade]

Lowell is the only one with a reason to bus here. Karnos lacks such a reason.

[MathBlade]

So Nero vote PP and then when all are done discussing I has hammers.

If PP is town Karnos likelihood of scum grows but I doubt PP is town. Would probably say Karnos+Saru in that case.

[MathBlade]

Intent to hammer

Just giving 24 hours for last thoughts.

[MathBlade]

Town should always has hammers not scum. It forces scum to vote first. It is the same principle in LyLO. (MyLO should be a no lynch)

No matter what scum team you believe in the votes are out. I want to 24 for people who aren't online on a Saturday morning.

[MathBlade]

12 hours til hammer approximately. Going to bed now.

[MathBlade]

I don't agree with your case on Nero.

If anything your recent posting gives me heeby jeebies of my town read on you. Maybe Karnos+ironstove like I originally thought before but that is only if Penguin flips town.

[MathBlade]

Town

MathBlade

ironstove
bji

Saru
Lowell

Nero Cain

PenguinPower

Scum

This is stupid.

If Penguin isn't scum then Karnos surely is for both of them are not voting Lowell or putting him in their scumreads despite what they said before. As demonstrated Lowell is bussing for the cred.

Nero is obv town too many people suspect him. Move on. He is the mislynch.

[MathBlade]

idk how everyone is town reading nero, he's really fucking scummy.

Only I am which makes him a mislynch.

[MathBlade]

Nero+Saru is a possible team on paper.

Stove let's assume Nero flips town who is the scum team?

[MathBlade]

Here are my reads. Scummiest on top to towniest on bottom.
Penguin
Nero
Lowell
Iron
Karnos
Bji

Surely not Saru who said they were scum reading Nero.

So what team are you floating now?

[MathBlade]

Prod dodge. I prefer Penguin as I think Nero is town.

[MathBlade]

@mod: Requesting that anyone that doesn't make posts with content in 48 hours from this post be prodded. Prod dodge is not enough

I can think of a couple of reasons scum PP and you would but those are theories ATM. And they require a lot of coincidence. Not something I am considering ATM.

Probably Penguin and Lowell and Penguin is frustrated his buddy won't move his vote or make effort.

[MathBlade]

but also Math/LMK ran a train on Knight/FA so this proves that your "running up town" is NAI

I think I want Karnos today actually.

VOTE: Karnos

[MathBlade]

I never voted FA and likely never would have had I been in the game.

RL is getting to me not much time to explain.

Nero derps as town and PP is being crazy weird too much to be scum so I am going back to Karnos + Stove or Karnos + Lowell.

Either that or Lowell since Lowell is determined to be useless.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Lowell
Let's see if votes gets him to magically appear.

[MathBlade]

What about Karnos and BJ? Afterall BJ is town reading Karnos yet scumreading me for the same actions.

but its defiantly Karnos + 1 of Stove, BJ, PP or Saru.

I imagine that at least 1 scum was bussing Thor.

vote:Karnos

This is terribad.

If Nero is scum it is with Lowell.

[MathBlade]

I will Give stove the doubt here someone get Nero in hammering range:

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[MathBlade]

No way it is Karnos+PP

Lynch Lowell tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

What about Karnos and BJ? Afterall BJ is town reading Karnos yet scumreading me for the same actions.

but its defiantly Karnos + 1 of Stove, BJ, PP or Saru.

I imagine that at least 1 scum was bussing Thor.

vote:Karnos

Instantly moving over to Karnos too damn fast. That gave me the creeps and then not listening when I say Karnos+PP is impossible.

Lowell is a good lynch. They aren't playing and probably lurker scum. Had suspicions since day 2.

[MathBlade]

So..MB...while I'm liking that..I'm just wondering...what went on in your head?

She got all pissy that I said her slot voted someone she didn't vote.

Mistakes happen. You are not posting arguments that make sense. Karnos+PP is impossible. If that is the team I will be shocked. You are selling me what I want.

I want Karnos scum because then he is replicating 1800 brilliantly. That doesn't make it true.

[MathBlade]

I am also a They. Please use correct pronouns.

[MathBlade]

Stove if Nero flips town you lynch the shit out of Lowell. You hear me?

[MathBlade]

you just game threw so you loose all rights for me to use the pronoun you want

Game throwing implies I know the solution (which I don't)

However even if I did that doesn't give you the right to treat me as less than. I will use the pronoun you want I expect the same back.

Also using words like turds shows a limited vocabulary.

Use twilight if I am wrong explain it.

[MathBlade]

Karnos+PP not a team. You need rope. You only came on once day was over.

[MathBlade]

@PP @Saru Please unvote this is MyLO. Assume you are right about your first person who is their partner?

Wtf about 5 town roles? So the question becomes did scum target me or stove?

[MathBlade]

Again. You both do not answer the question.

If you are right about each other who is that person's partner?

[MathBlade]

Happy Turjey day to those who celebrate I will be offline.

[MathBlade]

Thanksgiving is upon us but would like to hear who Lowell would think the partners are and pretty much everyone's thought on a scum team given Nero town.

[MathBlade]

Saru vs. Penguin, that would be some pretty ballsy mutual bussing out of the gate, and I don't see what the value would be in trying to set up a choice between two scum today when all they need is one more mislynch. So almost certainly not both scum.

Saru's case on Penguin is bad. Additionally, it's ???weird??? that Saru is so active today after doing almost nothing yesterday. What lit a bug under your butt Saru? Is it the excitement of being one mislynch away from a win?

I think it's much more likely that scum targeted Math (scum really would not want IC holding hammer in MYLO, although fortunately this is what happened) than iron (who presumably inherited Bodyguard from GreyICE, and took the bullet for Math, himself clearly believing that Math being in MYLO was valuable despite 1681), but I also don't think there's much to be gained from speculating on which was their actual target since we can't know.

It being Thanksgiving (my favorite holiday!), this is going to be my only post today.

To those who celebrate it: HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!

Who do you think the scum team is?

[MathBlade]

Lowell find me a town and a scum game of yours.

[MathBlade]

Still awaiting Lowell's response. I think I have it narrowed down to one of two teams I just want to see something.

[MathBlade]

Afk for the rest of the day. People should like come and play.

[MathBlade]

and @karnos, yes, the aron kill. at the time there wasn't an IC claim so aron could easily have been the last verifaibly pro-town player. so scum would want him dead, even at the risk of looking suspicious for it (since, clearly, both you and penguin have been able to survive just fine since the kill anyway). beyond that, at this point I just don't see lurkerteam of bj/saru as viable. so at least one of you is scum anyway.

So...

You either haven't been paying attention, or you are lying- because it's already been well established that the Aron kill was submitted before I gained access to the neighborhood thread. So if that is your criteria for determining who is scum, you should just be saying penguin is scum.

Pretty lowell is scum.

Wait what was established now? I missed this. Was this confirmed by mod or are you and penguin saying this?

If true, then yes, it definitely changes my opinion on you. still makes penguin scum, but might put you below saru.

...It is how neighborizer works as I said.

[MathBlade]

Lowell find me a town and a scum game of yours.

It's better that I don't do this because (a) it's dumb, and (b) you'll accuse me of putting my finger on the scale.

I've been in about a billion games. A few since I returned a few months ago, many many a few years before that. wiki me and take your pick.

I am done. Let's lynch Lowell. If he won't put effort towards a simple question or reading posts or anything then he needs to be lynched.

[MathBlade]

FMPoV it is either Penguin/Karnos/Saru with Lowell in that order. If bji is scum he has won IMHO. Work gotta go will check late tonight.

[MathBlade]

I'm here. Briefly, since I'm running to a meeting (and am old). I agree with Math's 1550 in response to penguin's "why would I do this" post, for the reasons he stated. After that we can sort it out, but I'm relatively sure iron and saru are town. I lean town on bji, and I'm not quite seeing the nero case yet. My guess is the other is Karnos. I'll check in on this once more this evening if I can, and then tomorrow.

VOTE: penguin

This post specifically feels planned. I would trust bji to figure out which.

[MathBlade]

Honestly I am intentionally lurking so I don't make a mistake. I want a wagon to form naturally and be convincing. While I do have hammer I should be always listening in case my reads are wrong. I would rather have a dragged out victory rather than a quick loss. Penguin what makes what Saru says insane drivel?

My plan is simple. Listen and give thoughts just as if I wasn't an IC but I will hammer.

[MathBlade]

@bji and Penguin they please.
I know it is hard because most of you knew me when I wasn't such a stickler on pronouns.

[MathBlade]

Pretty much all of town has to agree to a lynch today. The idea is that bji pretty much says the game is on my shoulders and whoever I pick we lynch pretty much. By voting it pretty much starts that process of quick votes early.

I am trying to lurk to see if my Penguin Lowell team is wrong because I pretty much have to name the team and be right for a town win. While I am confident enough in Lowell I waffle on Penguin. I am trying to listen to see if I have things wrong.

[MathBlade]

When I gave stove a chance he was wrong on Nero and I was right about Nero town. It turns into a matter of how much I trust my reads ATM. I hate being IC ATM because if we lynched Penguin or Lowell like I wanted yesterday this would be a shit ton clearer.

[MathBlade]

I don't want to lynch anyone ATM please unvote

[MathBlade]

Yeah I am back to wanting Lowell.

That Lowell post about bji is horrible. If he genuinely believed calling bji town was a problem he would have brought it up the first time.

And GreyICE I know you are probably screaming "Why did Math setup spec again???"

[MathBlade]

Setup spec and why people do actions is how I think. Let's just hope it caught the right scum.

Penguin or Karnos or Saru is last scum in that order if Lowell is scum. However I waver between them all.

[MathBlade]

So FMPOV Lowell seems either scum increasing activity to stay alive or generally just not interested. It just feels like "here is a bone now let me lurk play" and I hate it.