The real folk blues [Canceled]

[Frozen Angel]

Jet: Humans were meant to work and sweat to earn a living. Those that try to get rich quick, or live at the expense of others, all get divine retribution somewhere along the line. That's the lesson. Unfortunately we quickly forget the lessons we've learned. And then we have to learn them. All over again.

Vote Count 2.28

The Ascended Masters (9): Nero Cain , Vedith , pisskop , SirCakez , Panzerjager , Expedience , davesaz , Skrub , DiamondSentinel
Skrub (8): Nosferatu , Albert B. Rampage , Cerberus v666 , Mirhawk , randomidget , Aristophanes , kraska77 , Vaxkiller
kraska77 (4): MathBlade , Varsoon , Radical Rat , Klingoncelt
Nosferatu (3): mhsmith0 , The Ascended Masters , SpyreX
Mirhawk (1): PeregrineV
Vaxkiller (1): Killthestory

Not Voting (2): RachMarie , Drixx

With 28 players alive it takes 15 votes to lynch.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2016-11-04 21:10:00)

[The Ascended Masters]

hey diamondsentinel
you thanked him for asking the question but you didn't actually answer it

[The Ascended Masters]

who strongarmed the MoZ lynch yesterday?

[Nero Cain]

I think Random is likely scum and was lashing out at me to throw shade on me. Rach was prodded and if she doesn't rerespond she'll be replaced so if you tilt your head just right the he is sorta right but I still think attacking me like that is scum motivated.

Almost seems too wolfy to be a wolf though. Like, what's the point of attacking you there when you're not a wagon and rach (who's being discussed) isn't either? I mean, I guess it could just be scum playing badly, but I'd think that attacking you for being wrong on the facts when he himself was wrong on the facts is just bad play in and of itself and not especially AI.

I think the scum motivation here is that he's trying to use it to discredit my read on him. I mean sure, I think OMGUS

IS

scummy but I know it also comes from bad town all the time and its possible that he is just that but then if he was just pissed at me for having a slight scum read on him why would fuss at me for "incorrectly" reading the thread?

[The Ascended Masters]

I think Random is likely scum and was lashing out at me to throw shade on me. Rach was prodded and if she doesn't rerespond she'll be replaced so if you tilt your head just right the he is sorta right but I still think attacking me like that is scum motivated.

Almost seems too wolfy to be a wolf though. Like, what's the point of attacking you there when you're not a wagon and rach (who's being discussed) isn't either? I mean, I guess it could just be scum playing badly, but I'd think that attacking you for being wrong on the facts when he himself was wrong on the facts is just bad play in and of itself and not especially AI.

I think the scum motivation here is that he's trying to use it to discredit my read on him. I mean sure, I think OMGUS

IS

scummy but I know it also comes from bad town all the time and its possible that he is just that but then if he was just pissed at me for having a slight scum read on him why would fuss at me for "incorrectly" reading the thread?

Why would any person think that saying you weren't reading the game (and using incorrect information as proof of this) would discredit your reads?

[The Ascended Masters]

Hey Nero who strongarmed the MoZ lynch yesterday? Asking for a friend.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ed: Ed will introduce Ed. Full name - Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky the 4th.
Spike : That's a long name.
Faye : Who the hell's this?
Ed: Ed made up that name for Ed, isn't it cool?
Spike : If you made it up, how can you be the 4th?

Vote Count 1.13

Maker_of_Zanos (7): RachMarie , The Ascended Masters , SpyreX , Expedience , Vifam , Maker_of_Zanos , DiamondSentinel
Skrub (7): grapes , SirCakez , Road Kamelot , Drixx , Vedith , Cerberus v666 , pisskop
Drixx (3): Nero Cain , Skrub , Yume
RachMarie (3): Klingoncelt , mhsmith0 , Killthestory
Expedience (2): Nosferatu , DrippingGoofball
DiamondSentinel (1): Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage (1): Panzerjager
Nosferatu (1): Giovanni il Pellegrino
Vifam (1): kraska77

Not Voting (6): randomidget , Space Dandy , Mirhawk , PeregrineV , davesaz , rb

With 32 players alive it takes 17 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2016-10-29 06:10:00)

Note: Skrub is V/LA.
Searching replacement for Yume.

Here's the first votecount when MoZ became a reasonable wagon.

I won't say that the first slot on the wagon is town, but I will say that at least 50% of the next few slots are. If I remember correctly, Expedience wasn't pushing terribly hard (they haven't really pushed anything hard), and I really really can't see TAM as town, so I'm going to say that Spyre is town (since Vifam flipped town). Next VC analysis coming soon.

PEdit: Hey dumbass, I'm doing that now.

[Nero Cain]

So DS, we are lynching TAM today. I understand that your vote is on TAM now but earlier you were fairly hesitant to vote for TAM. Why should I not think that is possible scum play?

[Nero Cain]

Hey Nero who strongarmed the MoZ lynch yesterday? Asking for a friend.

you

[The Ascended Masters]

I really really can't see TAM as town,

Why do you think that I'm scum?

[mhsmith0]

Hey Nero who strongarmed the MoZ lynch yesterday? Asking for a friend.

you

And according to DS that makes TAM town, yet ds is voting for TAM. There seems to be dissonance between his stated values and his current votes, unless he thinks that nacho strong armed the lynch in a wolfy way, or that other villagers were the real strongarmers. It could be he's too lazy to read into d1 lynch, but that is also dissonant with his stated desire to lynch for info. If he's truly lynching for info, he'd be analyzing prior lynches and using the info that he said he values.

[Nero Cain]

but TAM and DS is scum theater bro

[davesaz]

Oh good, it's up and stayed up.

I thought the previous question was whether it's better to lynch active vs lurker.
But in either case, it's not an issue of info vs. no info, it's an issue of more info vs. less info.

Pedit: and I took too long, conversation has moved on.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ed: Ed will introduce Ed. Full name - Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky the 4th.
Spike : That's a long name.
Faye : Who the hell's this?
Ed: Ed made up that name for Ed, isn't it cool?
Spike : If you made it up, how can you be the 4th?

Vote Count 1.13

Maker_of_Zanos (7): RachMarie , The Ascended Masters , SpyreX , Expedience , Vifam , Maker_of_Zanos , DiamondSentinel
Skrub (7): grapes , SirCakez , Road Kamelot , Drixx , Vedith , Cerberus v666 , pisskop
Drixx (3): Nero Cain , Skrub , Yume
RachMarie (3): Klingoncelt , mhsmith0 , Killthestory
Expedience (2): Nosferatu , DrippingGoofball
DiamondSentinel (1): Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage (1): Panzerjager
Nosferatu (1): Giovanni il Pellegrino
Vifam (1): kraska77

Not Voting (6): randomidget , Space Dandy , Mirhawk , PeregrineV , davesaz , rb

With 32 players alive it takes 17 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2016-10-29 06:10:00)

Note: Skrub is V/LA.
Searching replacement for Yume.

Katerina Solensan : Ha ha. I can't tell when you're joking and when you're not!
Spike : Yeah, I get that a lot.

Vote Count 1.21

Maker_of_Zanos (17): RachMarie , The Ascended Masters , SpyreX , Expedience , rb , Skrub , Killthestory , DiamondSentinel , SirCakez , Road Kamelot , Panzerjager , Vifam , pisskop , Cerberus v666 , kraska77 , DrippingGoofball , grapes

[Lynch!]

DiamondSentinel (3): Albert B. Rampage , Vedith , davesaz
Skrub (1): Drixx
Drixx (1): Nero Cain
Expedience (1): Nosferatu
RachMarie (1): mhsmith0
Nosferatu (1): Aristophanes
Vifam (1): MathBlade

Not Voting (6): randomidget , Space Dandy , Mirhawk , PeregrineV , Maker_of_Zanos , Klingoncelt

With 32 players alive it takes 17 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2016-10-29 06:10:00)

The final one has quite a large increase in votes. Let's use this one for our last VC, and then I'll start quoting actual posts.

grapes, DGB, kraska, and Cerb all hopped on since the last VC. So we disregard them. The last slots are really really NAI. I've seen lurker town and scum go for the final votes. Not going to bother dealing with those for now.

SirCakez, Road, and PJ look to be in pretty townie slots.

That's all I care to do with wagon analysis.

PEdit: Nero, I can't explain why I do what I do. I just do things .

And TAM, it's just an overall feeling. I've played with you, Nacho, as town and scum (I believe it's the same Nacho). I have gotten good at getting feelings about your alignment. Like it or not, you're quite obvious scum right now.

PPEdit: Dammit smith, don't point out discrepancies. Yes, there's a discrepancy. When there is a discrepancy between theory and my "hunches" or feelings, I revise my theories. Just how I play. Give me a sec to explain more.

[mhsmith0]

You think scum theater? What in particular makes you think this?

[The Ascended Masters]

Because you just made the argument that the big piece of information that you get from lynching active town is that the biggest people who pushed that wagon through are town. I was one of the biggest people who pushed the Zanos wagon through; I shut the Skrub wagon down when it was the alternative, and I certainly pushed it through at it's early stages (hence SirCakez's and Nero's votes on me). So... what?

[DiamondSentinel]

Huh. So, I stand corrected. It actually seems Expedience was pushing that lynch pretty hard. Granted, I'm just looking at the 3 or so pages before that first VC right now, but still, there's some serious pushing. I revise what I said about Expedience.

[The Ascended Masters]

Oh good, it's up and stayed up.

I thought the previous question was whether it's better to lynch active vs lurker.
But in either case, it's not an issue of info vs. no info, it's an issue of more info vs. less info.

Pedit: and I took too long, conversation has moved on.

Active players only give more information when lynched than inactive players when they are scum. You don't get more information when you lynch an active townie; you lose their potential scumhunting down the road. "What information do we get from this lynch?" shouldn't factor into your push when you're trying to lynch someone because "is this person scum?" is the question that matters far, far more.

[DiamondSentinel]

Oh ho ho! I'm not seeing much with TAM even addressing him.

FoS: TAM and Nero

[DiamondSentinel]

Actually, TAM spent most of yesterday pressuring rb.

[Nosferatu]

My stance on Nos is they will lurk and be useless regardless of alignment so they are a stupid lynch. Now if we wanted to lynch a scummy lurker we could lynch RM. Random more than Rach at this point.

I take great offense to this.

lo siento.

As far as I remember I've only played with you twice, once as scum and once as town. In both games I don't remember you doing anything. In the town game once you got to MYLO you towned it up but my stance is still that you are p useless early game.

i was jk but ty

[The Ascended Masters]

And TAM, it's just an overall feeling. I've played with you, Nacho, as town and scum (I believe it's the same Nacho). I have gotten good at getting feelings about your alignment. Like it or not, you're quite obvious scum right now.

Last time we played together, you failed to read me correctly. This game, you're suddenly an expert?
If you fooled me as scum and then the next game we played I said I knew how to read you based on hunch, what would you say to me?

[Nero Cain]

Oh ho ho! I'm not seeing much with TAM even addressing him.

FoS: TAM and Nero

^
DS trying to push me as a TAM buddy

[The Ascended Masters]

Actually, TAM spent most of yesterday pressuring rb.

And by "pressuring rb", you mean "talking him rb of his House scumread", right?

[DiamondSentinel]

so I don't see where you get so many reads from unless you are scum.

Can we talk about this?

I don't like master at all this page. At alllll.

Its it time to start favors 4 votes. Lets get this wagon movin

see here i thought you were saying "maker" and i was going to agree with you but suddenly i feel a pang in my heart

Like dude that logic can be applied to nearly any reaction scum or town have to anything

Not really.

@Killthestory - What I meant was the role modifier suicidal.

Thats quite the leap of faith, and while are you phishing KTS?
~Zanos

This is a joke, right?

I think Nacho is town here

What do you think of Maker?

Pedit: Not really.... Why do you ask? Maybe the fishing part was exaggerated but assuming a suicidal modifier was a pretty big leap of faith.

I asked because I was having difficulty believing that anyone thought DS was fishing by the "suicidal modifier" comment.
It was a big "leap of faith" I guess if he actually believes that KTS has the suicidal modifier. I don't actually think this is the case. Why do you?

Yeeea nacho im your sword bro but id be double happy to stick in makers neck

I'm ready.

Vote: Maker_of_Zanos

I think Nacho is town here

What do you think of Maker?

Couldbscum, dont really care for em

let's go

2. 903 --> Complains about my reactionary analysis of KTS in 889 --> And what exactly is wrong with the post? It wasn't even a strong conclusion; just more of an aside/comment on how KTS was behaving this game & why. At worst its null at best its null. - Neutral (-1)

You tried to imply that KTS was scum because he wasn't acting like a troll. You didn't analyze any of his "serious posting", you just took a difference and you used that as an attempt to push him. You are docking points from SpyreX because he disagreed with you; isn't this the definition of bias?

Obviously, people are yelling because it isn't super obvious at a glance. Just cuz something looks obvious to you doesn't mean it does to everyone else. And quite frankly, I don't like how you are basically shouting from the sidelines despite not having giving your reasons to do so; it feels you dont want to be held accountable should this slot flip as town.

The Skrub wagon wasn't obvious at a glance, but it still popped up anyways. The House wagon wasn't obvious at a glance, but it still popped up anyways. SpyreX was pointing out that these wagons didn't get questioned, but yours did. Why? I don't understand how SpyreX is avoiding being held accountable for your town flip; his response blows this particular criticism out of the water, but just because he didn't give reasons for lynching you doesn't mean that people aren't going to turn to him if you flip town. I find that making a well-reasoned case on a wagon lets you get off with lynching someone more than just lynching someone does. Again, you're criticizing him for how he approached your wagon which again seems biased.

Yeah, the confirmation bias coming from this slot is quite obviously, and it really doesnt feel like town deathtunneling each other either. Show that Scrub is obvtown; if that were the case, then why is Scrub the competing top wagon? Also --> Look at the double-standard when it comes to people voting your townreads. I understand that the Scrub vote was somewhat bad, but how can you argue that Scrub's vote was much better in comparison --> You had no problem with it as far as I can tell. This is scum targeting the weakest link, not town that likes to deathtunnel players. Your attitude this game tells me so.

First, addressing the "if Skrub is obvtown, why is he the top competing wagon?". The majority opinion does not always align with an individual's opinion. The majority opinion (much like an individual opinion) is not always correct. I can elaborate on this if you'd like, but I'd hope that you can acknowledge that this is a bad line of thought if you spend some more time thinking about it.

As far as a double standard goes, SpyreX never argued that Skrub's vote was better than yours (although I'd argue that it was); he said that your vote was bad and that Skrub was obvtown (he argued absolutely nothing about your vote).

You seem to be arguing that old-timers (which feels directed at me and SpyreX in particular, please correct me if I'm wrong) are currently approaching your case with a closed mind and are producing terrible logic to push a lynch through. If you are town, I'd argue that this case is a case that you're making because you're frustrated by the push against you; you seem like a person who can approach a situation objectively but I'd be very surprised if you look at this case after the game is done and tell me that this is your objective approach to SpyreX's push on you.

And then you mislynch people who dont play by your "One-Size-Fits-All" rule; this is great advice.

A majority of people aren't playing by my rules. I am not pushing or attempting to lynch all of them. This has absolutely nothing to do with the point that I am currently making.

That's the thing that I don't understand. Why can SpyreX do whatever & no one even casts a shadow of a doubt there?

Show me something that I should kill him for.
So far, what you've shown me is that you're biased against his playstyle and pushing him for it, which is a neat little coincidence because it's what you were criticizing him for doing to you earlier, which is an even neater coincidence because it's as hypocritical as your partner accused Skrub of being earlier.

But no, not really. I'd go back if the collective demanded it, of course, but I'm pretty interested in Maker at the moment.

These are all the posts that TAM even ADDRESSES maker.

And actually, I want to point out a post that was one of his later ones.

I'm pretty excited to see Maker push his shiny new SpyreX suspicion.
In the meantime, short catch up.

In this one, he actually seems to be happy with his play.

Thanks for actually having my iso TAM. I am 100% confident that TAM is scum, with Nero a very very likely TAM buddy.

So yes, Nero. That's exactly what I'm saying.