Micro 643: Desperation Day (Game Over)

[Comparing Realities]

Based on the cited thread and the credit to xyzzy in the OP of that thread seen here, it's probably more likely than not that xyzzy had already started working out some numbers for the game already, maybe even before the game even started, and only brought it up because No Lynching was discussed (which was also quick to come up in the cited thread). So just bringing up the math for it is probably null, and I certainly wouldn't make associatives based on it.

This is completely irrelevant to the point I was getting at.

[Comparing Realities]

xyzzy, would you care to respond to my accusations instead of flat-out ignoring them like every other player I've raised objections to?

[Alchemist21]

Based on the cited thread and the credit to xyzzy in the OP of that thread seen here, it's probably more likely than not that xyzzy had already started working out some numbers for the game already, maybe even before the game even started, and only brought it up because No Lynching was discussed (which was also quick to come up in the cited thread). So just bringing up the math for it is probably null, and I certainly wouldn't make associatives based on it.

This is completely irrelevant to the point I was getting at.

Then what was your point?

[BlackStar]

xyzzy, would you care to respond to my accusations instead of flat-out ignoring them like every other player I've raised objections to?

Who else have you raised objections to?

[xyzzy]

xyzzy, would you care to respond to my accusations instead of flat-out ignoring them like every other player I've raised objections to?

can you clarify what specifically you're asking me to respond to? I don't really see anything in your ISO directed at me that I've not responded to, but if there's something you'd like a more specific response to, feel free to let me know.

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

Mas y Menos

(3): xyzzy, Gamma Emerald, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(2): Mas y Menos, Alchemist21

Gamma Emerald

(1): BlackStar

Not voting

(1): Comparing Realities

With 7 votes in play, 4 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Sunday 2 October at 01:15 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-10-02 01:15:00)

)

[callforjudgement]

Just to note: I'm having technical issues accessing the site at the moment. I'm going to try to keep on moderating the game, but Something_Smart has joined the game as a backup moderator so that the game can continue even if I can't post for some reason. Welcome!

[Something_Smart]

egopost

hey peeps

[BTD6_maker]

I said it tongue-in-cheekily. BTD6 is

not

too townie; I contend he hasn't said much of anything that's alignment indicative. I cannot see anything he says as being more likely said by town than scum, or the other way around. He feels very controlled, which itself is a scummy trait, but in isolation is, again, not alignment indicative.

Please explain how being controlled is scummy at all. In me, it is NAI but I want to know whether it is site meta that being controlled is scummy.

Anyway, looking at the VCA, it is possible that the scumteam is Xyzzy and CR but it is highly unlikely in my opinion that they would not try to get Keyenpeydee lynched earlier and that all wagoners were Town. Thus I am forced to conclude that there was almost certainly scum on that wagon. Of course, from my perspective the two most likely are MyM and Alchemist, but Blackstar and/or GE are possibilities. If there was only one scum on the wagon, Xyzzy is likely the other scum.

[BTD6_maker]

Remember my theory about rb's scumreads being correct? And how xyzzy was totally opposed to them? xyzzy never cited himself as rb's main scumread, but we all knew what he was thinking.

Vote Count

Mas y Menos

(3):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

, xyzzy

rb

(2): BTD6_maker, Comparing Realities

Comparing Realities

(2): Gamma Emerald, Alchemist21

keyenpeydee

(1): BlackStar

Not voting

(1): Mas y Menos

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

Mas y Menos

(2): xyzzy,

keyenpeydee

rb

(2): BTD6_maker, Comparing Realities

Comparing Realities

(2): Alchemist21, Mas y Menos

keyenpeydee

(1): BlackStar

xyzzy

(1):

rb

Not voting

(1): Gamma Emerald

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

xyzzy

(2):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

Mas y Menos

(2): xyzzy, Comparing Realities

Comparing Realities

(1): Mas y Menos

keyenpeydee

(1): BlackStar

BTD6_maker

(1): Alchemist21

Not voting

(2): Gamma Emerald, BTD6_maker

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

keyenpeydee

(4): BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald

Mas y Menos

(3): xyzzy, Comparing Realities, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(2):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

keyenpeydee

(4): BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald

Mas y Menos

(3): xyzzy, Comparing Realities, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(2):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

keyenpeydee

(4): BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald

Mas y Menos

(3): xyzzy, Comparing Realities, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(2):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

keyenpeydee

(5): BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald,

keyenpeydee

Mas y Menos

(2): xyzzy, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(1):

rb

Not voting

(1): Comparing Realities

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes were required for a lynch.
Deadline was Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

keyenpeydee

was lynched. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Players have until 1am UTC on Sunday 18 September to submit their night actions, if any (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-18 01:00:00)

).
Day 2 will start at around that time (although ugh, you lot ended the day at an inconvenient time, so I might be a little late in starting it).

rb

was killed overnight. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Vote Count

Not voting

(7): Comparing Realities, BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald, xyzzy, BTD6_maker

With 7 votes in play, 4 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Sunday 2 October at 01:15 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-10-02 01:15:00)

)

Kind of makes you wonder.

If xyzzy is scum, then the other scum was probably on the key wagon through its completion. Black Star, Mas Y Menos, Alchemist, and Gamma...

How skilled is Keyenpeydee as Town? Are his reads normally accurate? If so, that points to Xyzzy being scum, especially due to the RB kill. There are no PRs so leaving alie someone Townish who is too accurate in their reads is risky. However, this should be taken with a pinch of salt as the NK could be WIFOM.

[BlackStar]

I feel like mas would've been hammered already if he was town

[BlackStar]

*they were

[Gamma Emerald]

Jeez. So little is happening that it seems we may just get prodded to death. Bleurgh.

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

Mas y Menos

(3): xyzzy, Gamma Emerald, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(2): Mas y Menos, Alchemist21

Gamma Emerald

(1): BlackStar

Not voting

(1): Comparing Realities

With 7 votes in play, 4 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Sunday 2 October at 01:15 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-10-02 01:15:00)

)

[callforjudgement]

Mas y Menos

has been prodded. (A reminder: with hydras in my games, both heads must stay active.)

[Alchemist21]

I feel like mas would've been hammered already if he was town

It's possible both scum are already on the wagon and nobody off the wagon wants to hammer.

[BlackStar]

I feel like mas would've been hammered already if he was town

It's possible both scum are already on the wagon and nobody off the wagon wants to hammer.

If they're both on the wagon, why isn't anyone trying to convince us to hammer him? We've been sitting around doing nothing for days now.

[xyzzy]

I personally seriously doubt that BTD6_maker is scum, so the theory that both scum are on the wagon is off the table imo

[Comparing Realities]

Based on the cited thread and the credit to xyzzy in the OP of that thread seen here, it's probably more likely than not that xyzzy had already started working out some numbers for the game already, maybe even before the game even started, and only brought it up because No Lynching was discussed (which was also quick to come up in the cited thread). So just bringing up the math for it is probably null, and I certainly wouldn't make associatives based on it.

This is completely irrelevant to the point I was getting at.

Then what was your point?

My point (really Gamma's) was that because xyzzy was the main person who engaged Mas for so long, and Mas was uncharacteristically salty during that interaction, it increases the likelihood of them being a team putting on a distancing play. The first post in which xyzzy fought with Mas is irrelevant; just because xyzzy used math that he was already familiar with, it doesn't exonerate him.

xyzzy, would you care to respond to my accusations instead of flat-out ignoring them like every other player I've raised objections to?

Who else have you raised objections to?

You, Mas, and to a lesser extent, BTD6.
I said Mas looked like they knew bling was a bad idea, and they just OMGUS'd me without rebutting my claims. You just kind of ignored me when I said you threw the wagon off of Mas (even though you're no longer a major scum tell for me). And BTD6 didn't have time to respond before this post.

xyzzy, would you care to respond to my accusations instead of flat-out ignoring them like every other player I've raised objections to?

can you clarify what specifically you're asking me to respond to? I don't really see anything in your ISO directed at me that I've not responded to, but if there's something you'd like a more specific response to, feel free to let me know.

I want to know four things:
1) Why did rb die, when you were the only person he voted for all day 1,
2) Why was key lynched, when you were his major scum read all of day 1 (note to self: see if key scum reads xyzzy before Black perhaps chainsaws him),
3) Why were you so vehemently against the idea of something so simple as mafia killing someone with good reads, suggesting four other possible scenarios that were not themselves more likely than the previous hypothesis,
4) And why was the Firebringer head of Mas so salty with you and your "friggin' theoretical math" when he's been remarkably chill for the rest of the day?

I said it tongue-in-cheekily. BTD6 is

not

too townie; I contend he hasn't said much of anything that's alignment indicative. I cannot see anything he says as being more likely said by town than scum, or the other way around. He feels very controlled, which itself is a scummy trait, but in isolation is, again, not alignment indicative.

Please explain how being controlled is scummy at all. In me, it is NAI but I want to know whether it is site meta that being controlled is scummy.

Eh, it's a scummy trait. It's alignment suggestive, but not alignment indicative. When I play as scum, I worry way more about what people think of me, encouraging me to be more careful. But I can see it being more of a personality trait than an in-game circumstance for you.

Remember my theory about rb's scumreads being correct? And how xyzzy was totally opposed to them? xyzzy never cited himself as rb's main scumread, but we all knew what he was thinking.

Spoiler: Loadsa votecounts

Vote Count

Mas y Menos

(3):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

, xyzzy

rb

(2): BTD6_maker, Comparing Realities

Comparing Realities

(2): Gamma Emerald, Alchemist21

keyenpeydee

(1): BlackStar

Not voting

(1): Mas y Menos

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

Mas y Menos

(2): xyzzy,

keyenpeydee

rb

(2): BTD6_maker, Comparing Realities

Comparing Realities

(2): Alchemist21, Mas y Menos

keyenpeydee

(1): BlackStar

xyzzy

(1):

rb

Not voting

(1): Gamma Emerald

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

xyzzy

(2):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

Mas y Menos

(2): xyzzy, Comparing Realities

Comparing Realities

(1): Mas y Menos

keyenpeydee

(1): BlackStar

BTD6_maker

(1): Alchemist21

Not voting

(2): Gamma Emerald, BTD6_maker

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

keyenpeydee

(4): BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald

Mas y Menos

(3): xyzzy, Comparing Realities, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(2):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

keyenpeydee

(4): BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald

Mas y Menos

(3): xyzzy, Comparing Realities, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(2):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

keyenpeydee

(4): BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald

Mas y Menos

(3): xyzzy, Comparing Realities, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(2):

rb

,

keyenpeydee

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

Vote Count

keyenpeydee

(5): BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald,

keyenpeydee

Mas y Menos

(2): xyzzy, BTD6_maker

xyzzy

(1):

rb

Not voting

(1): Comparing Realities

With 9 votes in play, 5 votes were required for a lynch.
Deadline was Thursday 22 September at 06:10 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-22 06:10:00)

)

keyenpeydee

was lynched. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Players have until 1am UTC on Sunday 18 September to submit their night actions, if any (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-09-18 01:00:00)

).
Day 2 will start at around that time (although ugh, you lot ended the day at an inconvenient time, so I might be a little late in starting it).

rb

was killed overnight. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Vote Count

Not voting

(7): Comparing Realities, BlackStar, Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald, xyzzy, BTD6_maker

With 7 votes in play, 4 votes are required for a lynch.
Deadline is Sunday 2 October at 01:15 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-10-02 01:15:00)

)

Kind of makes you wonder.

If xyzzy is scum, then the other scum was probably on the key wagon through its completion. Black Star, Mas Y Menos, Alchemist, and Gamma...

How skilled is Keyenpeydee as Town? Are his reads normally accurate? If so, that points to Xyzzy being scum, especially due to the RB kill. There are no PRs so leaving alie someone Townish who is too accurate in their reads is risky. However, this should be taken with a pinch of salt as the NK could be WIFOM.

If scum lynched key because his reads were correct, then rb was killed because his reads were correct, then scum would definitely be the ones to be out there waving the WIFOM banner. They can't have anyone believing it

wasn't

WIFOM, after all.
Ask yourself who those who most strongly believe this was just WIFOM are and you'll see why I scum read them.

I feel like mas would've been hammered already if he was town

And yet, you're not voting him why...?
Maybe because you don't actually want to be the one to hammer him, because you know he's town...?
Why is everybody making it so hard for me to townread them for more than five seconds...?

I feel like mas would've been hammered already if he was town

It's possible both scum are already on the wagon and nobody off the wagon wants to hammer.

If they're both on the wagon, why isn't anyone trying to convince us to hammer him? We've been sitting around doing nothing for days now.

Um, nobody is trying to convince us to hammer him? That's funny because last I remember, you were saying:

I feel like mas would've been hammered already if he was town

What exactly were you trying to do there, if not to encourage somebody to hammer Mas? Oh, come on.

[BlackStar]

@Comparing realities I'm trying to gauge people's reactions to see how they feel about a mas hammer. Nobody seems to care about this game anymore so I've been tempted to just go ahead and do it.

[Comparing Realities]

Why should you care how other people feel about Mas? You said yourself that Mas was probably not town because he wasn't hammered yet. Hence, that is you stating you now have a scum read on Mas. If you believed what you say you believed, you would have hammered Mas right then (you know, to move the game along.) If you throw your vote in, that's a majority. Hammer. 50%+1. By virtue of the wagon being where it is, you already know what people's reactions to Mas are. It's the game, and you're no stranger to what the word "majority" means.
So, why? Why do you care what other people think? Why do you need your decision to be popular?

[Comparing Realities]

VOTE: xyzzy and the partner is probably Black Star.

[BlackStar]

I don't need my decison to be popular. If I hammer him and then he flips town then I'll get lynched tomorrow and we'll lose. And don't know how you can believe that I'm scum buddies with anyone.

[Comparing Realities]

Mas y Menos (3): xyzzy, Gamma Emerald, BTD6_maker

L-1

xyzzy (3): Mas y Menos, Alchemist21, Comparing Realities

L-1

Gamma Emerald (1): BlackStar L-3

[Comparing Realities]

I don't need my decison to be popular. If I hammer him and then he flips town then I'll get lynched tomorrow and we'll lose. And don't know how you can believe that I'm scum buddies with anyone.

1) If you don't need to be popular, then why did you literally ask for validation before hammering?
2) You are not the most suspicious person on the Mas wagon (I consider you part of it now, even though you're not voting). If you hammered, there would be other tasty delights such as, oh,

xyzzy

, to distract the town off of you. But we can't have that lynch either, can we?
3) If I believe you have buddies, I must also believe you're scum. If I believe you're scum, I must also believe you have buddies. You fit both criteria.