Mini 1830 - Game Over

[gerryoat]

The page 3 stuff between Snake and Gamma is 100% fluff. I don't see how Victor can be scumreading snake for it either. Regardless I don't see it as alignment indicative.

Also a huge pet peeve of mine is when people waste too much time on setup spec. Setup spec won't win Town the game, so quit it and start posting some real content.

i think this is the worst post so far. He basically repeated what I said and then gave a read that snake and gamma was fluff when everyone has been fluff so far.

[eagerSnake]

Yeah I have been debating with myself over who is scummier between Victor and Rhazh

[Grendel]

Hey, I'm too busy to sit down and write up what I wanted to do yesterday atm.

I just want to say that I have seen what I was looking for, and the first chance I can this evening I will jump into this.

I usually pay attention to people’s reactions. Whenever I try something unconventional there is usually a bit of a stir. And what is left after a topic that people have taken stances on? Things to analyze of course!

What I normally see are people who:

1) try to convince me I'm misguided

2) White knight me

3) scum read me

4) Play along with me

5) Ignore me

Usually one member of the scum will take option 3 or option 2. The rest of the scum team will ignore me (5), or play along (4) depending on whether town had a positive or negative opinions on my opening. Alone I consider (1), (4), and (5) to be null reads, but sometimes (1) is used in conjunction with 3 by a stronger scum player to try and get some sweet town cred for being a voice of skepticism, and getting the game moving via opposing stance. In the instance this happens though scum only created a light push on me, ultimately dropping me for somebody else. Scum who take option (2) are gonna town read me hard, and be staunchly against people who are throwing shade, also are ballzy scum players. This usually happens when one or more of their scum buddies choose option (4). Scum who jump solely on option (3) are usually the more… let’s say impulsive players that play largely on gut reads. Lastly I do take interest in players who start off doing (4), or (5), then switch with no rhyme or reason to the other. I don’t have the experience data to tell if this is a scummy action, but my gut thinks it is.

Looking over the roster I see CCC, Gamma, The Jester, Eagersnake and Manuel all voiced opinions. There is going to be one scum amongst them, possibly two if I’m lucky.

CCC

threw a piecemeal statement of encouragement, which is null. He could do that with either town or maf intent, and is not enough to speculate on.

Out of all of them

Gamma

is easily the most scummy. How he offered to buddy somebody, then once my day start method came under fire he backs off making no mention of it again. So he in effect shifts from (4) to (5) with no explanation. Except that he, as scum, realized that what I was doing wasn’t picking up, and The_Jester was vocally against it. So Gamma’s reaction looks like scum realizing he isn’t in popular opinion and trying to keep that he supported an unconventional idea out of public view. If Gamma is scum then Garry is town, scum don’t buddy each other like that.

The Jester

is interesting. At first I thought that he could be scum, pulling the “1” and “3”. But once I asked him he said he wasn’t actually scum reading me. So I feel pretty null about his slot. I do think it’s interesting though that he didn’t call out Gamma for trying to mimic a opening that he consider “awful”. Then again, I liked that Jester seemed willing to 1vs1 me, don’t think scum would have done that. In the event that Jester is scum Manual is probably town, their interactions early don’t look like scum + scum thread proper discussion.

EagerSnake

is town.

He filled out the correct documents, and has no felonies on his record.

Manuel

looked like he might be a white knight at first, but he didn’t keep the discussion going, and ultimately agreed that Jester had valid points. I think that in this instance him dropping it was more likely town then scum. Unlike Gamma Manuel didn’t try to hide or ignore what he said. Of course The Jester questioned Manuel, and didn’t pay attention to Gamma. Which is why I have this vuage feeling that GammaxJester could be a thing. Also didn’t see any ham fisted town reads being thrown my direction by Manuel. Light town read here.

Quick reads list for my Day start reaction analysis:

Snake

,

The_Jester, Manuel,

CCC,

Gamma

Everybody else opted to not weigh in.

[Grendel]

Serous vote.

VOTE: Gamma

Sorry Gamma, but nothing so far this game reflects how you played as town in our last game together.

Where is the aggressive nitpicking? Where is the heavy engagement with the players?

Not to mention that you have kept you vote on me for the same five pages. Town Gamma is much more fickle with his vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

I never backed down, I just forgot to follow through. Also, I have an idea of an extra reason why he did this, but I don't want to mess up his plan if I am right. I guess I'll drop it now though.
PEdit: I was town cop that game. I won't say what I am, but I am not town cop this game.

[Grendel]

The Jester

is interesting. At first I thought that he could be scum, pulling the “1” and “3”. But once I asked him he said he wasn’t actually scum reading me. So I feel pretty null about his slot

*

. I do think it’s interesting though that he didn’t call out Gamma for trying to mimic a opening that he consider “awful”. Then again, I liked that Jester seemed willing to 1vs1 me, don’t think scum would have done that. In the event that Jester is scum Manual is probably town, their interactions early don’t look like scum + scum thread proper discussion.

*but I could some actions with much more town intent then scum

I could have sworn I remembered to type that.

Oh well...

[Grendel]

Gamma feels like town here.

VOTE: Unvote

Someone else's turn now. Fiance is getting mad that I'm on here too much tonight.

Convince me.

I never backed down, I just forgot to follow through. Also, I have an idea of an extra reason why he did this, but I don't want to mess up his plan if I am right. I guess I'll drop it now though.
PEdit: I was town cop that game. I won't say what I am, but I am not town cop this game.

Ehh, I don't see how Jester is Gambiting. But yeah, if that's what you think then you should keep it to yourself.

I don't think it had to do with you being a cop. But I'll humor you. Why does rolling cop make you more aggressive as town?

[Grendel]

Can any of Gamma's EM friends confer what Gamma is saying is true here?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, about my lower activity: I am currently in 4 games. Not as much time to spend here. I even said in the postgame I would be able to be super active in one game anymore. I don't particularly like the look of your most recent posts either. What were you going to do when you got caught up in our previous game? Because there you never did anything unique.
About being cop: I wanted to confuse the Mafia about me. It sure worked, you NEVER considered me as a PR.

[gerryoat]

Grendel, I'll say it again, i don't see how you get all those reads in 3 pages of pretty much nullness.

[CCC]

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I just noticed I missed a crucial 'not' from the last line of post 90.

I'm calling BS on anyone who gets a serious scumread 4 pages into a game, when most of it is just feeling out and partially random votes that have no meaning behind them. So, anyone who says they actually hard fos someone, is just someone trying actively to look like they are scumhunting, when in reality they aren't.

Nonsense, people can form scumreads from page 1. Why dismiss everything so far just because it's the early game? Better yet, at what point in the game are you allowed to start forming scumreads?

@CCC

- Can you give some other examples of Jester dodging questions?

I think Grendel is town but I don't agree with his Gamma scumread.

[The_Jester]

Could you show me where Jester is dodging questions? I actually read him as town..

I asked first so don't you turn this on me and make me answer for you.

That's the best example.

Yes, it's incredibly minor. The only reason I'm even considering him is because I don't have any scumreads better than incredibly minor.

Your read on me is totally off-base, sorry. This is what happened:

I asked Grendel a question:

Why are you so concerned about my reason of voting you?

He responded with what seemed like actual question dodging but it turned out he had legitimate reasons for it later:

Shoot me a few guesses why I might question your vote

And my response:

I asked first so don't you turn this on me and make me answer for you.

Was me getting annoyed because I was not gonna provide him answers for him to pick from cause I wanted to see

his

genuine answer.

Clear?


Alright, Grendel's reading way too hard into all this but it's better than gerry's bitching about not having enough material for scumreads, whereas he's not amounting to anything.
I think Grendel's town.

Regarding the matter of having serious reads early into the game:
This topic is picked up in many games and my opinion is it's good to have scumreads and push them right off the bat. I don't see any reason why anybody would want to discourage that. How valid these scumreads are isn't really an issue cause it'll clear up eventually.

[eagerSnake]

I think one motive for pushing people off of scum reading early would be if your partners are coming under a lot heat

Not saying that's what gerry's motivation is because a lot of people just plainly don't like developing weak reads early on for whatever reason, just like a lot of people don't like setup spec.

[Eggman]

Vote Count 1.02

Grendel

: Gamma Emerald, The_Jester

Manuel87

: RhazhBash

CCC

: Square World

RhazhBash

: VictorDeAngelo

The_Jester

: CCC

VictorDeAngelo

: eagerSnake

Gamma Emerald

: Grendel

With 11 players alive, it takes

6

for a lynch.
The deadline for this day is (expired on 2016-09-26 18:00:00).

GreenNope has been prodded.

[The_Jester]

UNVOTE:

Manuel, who looks the most suspicious, in your opinion?

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
I tihnk RVS is winding down.

[Manuel87]

UNVOTE:

Manuel, who looks the most suspicious, in your opinion?

I would say CCC.
I didnt like the statement about math. He is already making excuses for pushing on town day 1.
Later he misreps and votes you for dodging a lot of questions. There was one question you didnt answer but gave an explanation why you wouldnt do.
It just doesnt fit into him saying he takes a mathematik aproach of the game.

[Gamma Emerald]

OHHHHHHHH KAY
Did no one catch this post by CCC?

Newbie games have nine players, two of whom are Mafia. Here we have eleven players.

Three mafia sounds about right to me.

Why did NO ONE call him out for the reasons they called me out?

[Square World]

VOTE: Manuel87

try to guess why

[Gamma Emerald]

???
Only thing I can think of is chainsaw.

[CCC]

@CCC

- Can you give some other examples of Jester dodging questions?

I've taken a look over his ISO and I can't. Partially because of that, but mainly because of his thorough explanation here, I am going to

UNVOTE: The_Jester.

He hasn't convinced me that he's town, but he has convinced me that he's done nothing worth reading as scummish.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

[CCC]

I would say CCC.
I didnt like the statement about math. He is already making excuses for pushing on town day 1.

As evidence, I present to you a completed, former game in which I played Town. And in which I mathed it up quite a bit. (I'm trying to tone it down).

There's been nothing worth applying math to in this game, yet. I have insufficient input to get anything meaningful out. I can make assumptions about setup and end up with ten near-identical percentage chances for each or the rest of you to be mafia, but that tells no-one anything useful.

[The_Jester]

To that list I will now add GreenNope [...] for being completely absent

GN had been absent site-wide since before the game started. How is that scummy?

[CCC]

To that list I will now add GreenNope [...] for being completely absent

GN had been absent site-wide since before the game started. How is that scummy?

Site-wide? Really? I thought it was just this game.

Lurking for a significant partof day one could be for any number of reasons, but one possible reason is to try to avoid being read. It's not much of a reason, but there honestly isn't much of a reason to vote for

anyone

right now.