Mini 521 (SMSM, Ended)

[Xdaamno]

/Confirmafragilisticexpialidocious

[Xdaamno]

The trick is to figure out what tactics the scum might want to use - and punish these tactics (BOCWATT).

after all, if the minigames were nor tactically relevant, a mod as wise and fantastic as mith (/crawl, yet true) wouldn't have bothered including them.

BOCWATT? What's that?

[Xdaamno]

But what tactics could scum use within the subgames to affect the course of the meta game? Ah... wait. I see something. A scum could possibly see who is attacking or is who is a dangerous townie to them in the metagame and then possibly sacrifice themselves in a subgame so that the dangerous townie is then on the lynch block. Townies can then, of course affect the course of a subgame so that a potential scum is able to be lynched. Because only the losing side of a subgame is eligible for voting, correct?

Ah... wait. I see something in my magical crystal ball... Kidding

How would the scum go about sacrificing themselves for this? And then how would we as a result be able to lynch that player?

"But Of Course, Wifom Applies To This"

Hah, I've not heard that before.

To be honest, I'm not planning on thinking too much about this stuff until at least after the first subgame. For now, I'm just interested in playing the subgame and thinking about what the mafia would do in it later.

Any particular reason?

[Xdaamno]

To be honest, I'm not planning on thinking too much about this stuff until at least after the first subgame. For now, I'm just interested in playing the subgame and thinking about what the mafia would do in it later.

Any particular reason?

Well, a combination of laziness and the fact that I don't think it'll be very easy to anticipate what the scumtells for a game like this will be. I also question the wisdom in telling the scum in advance what we expect them to do (this doesn't apply to everything, of course, but it's still a concern).

Also, you're scum.

You do that like every game -_-

(Otherwise fair enough, but I slightly disagree.)

[Xdaamno]

Discuss: should any N0 choices in the first subgame depend on pregame behavior?

Actually, I don't think that's a very good idea. There's no benifet to doing so; it'd just clue in the scum on who the power roles are, IMO.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Wait... power roles? What am I talking about -_-

Disregard that.

[Xdaamno]

There's much less harm when there's no power roles (Which there obviously aren't), so I'm not too bothered now. It was just my first reaction.

[Xdaamno]

Why do you say that "there obviously aren't"? There are power roles in the first three subgames, just not in the metagame. If those subgame power roles are in the hands of metatownies and they die, on average, that's a bad thing.

I'm saying the info from today could the scum info on who to kill. But there are no power-meta-roles, just meta-roles. Unless I mis-read what you were saying? That's what I meant, anyway.

[Xdaamno]

Fiasco I'll just treat C++ as a closed set-up It'll keep me sane unless I end up being an innocent child *fingers crossed*

I wouldn't say that's not an entirely bad idea; the only real help is knowing (very little) about what roles

could

exist, of course. If we pay too much attention to the possible setups, it's likely we'd just be distracted.

[Xdaamno]

sss, just put

~ ssf

or

~ simenon

at the end of your posts, that's standard.

[Xdaamno]

Hola.

So are we having a random voting stage or not?

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP:

Vote: Max

It was lame how I forgot that :/

[Xdaamno]

Hm, good point. Also, "You have a plan for town to kill scum? Or a plan for scum to kill town?" looks like incriminating with more evidence to me; but otherwise, town vibes from you.

Double-Accounters, Putting ~Aimee, ~ssf etc at the end of your posts/bits of your posts should make it a lot easier for everyone, IMO :/

Waterboy could be playing the "Oh no, he's dead!" act as scum, but that's a pretty lame gambit, so I'll have to decide based on further reads.

I've noticed a few hints at sub-roles so far, which is not nessecary; mainly stemming from the talk of our 'past roles', which I feel is distracting and we'd do well to drop at the moment.

Also, Fiasco, the questions you asked Max seemed fairly good to me at first, but... how do you think he could of known, if he does? It's not anything that could implicate him as scum (Since we know role info won't help him, of course).

[Xdaamno]

looks like incriminating with

no

evidence to me;

Fixed.

[Xdaamno]

(Aimee here again)

I don't understand Max's comments at the beginning. When you say you had a chance of winning, does that mean you think the town has less of a chance/or is unbalanced?

I see what Fiasco was saying, but I don't understand Max's earlier accusation. Why would Fiasco be responsible for this?

Yes; I think, rather than us all pondering over this, Max should just answer the questions already.

[Xdaamno]

It's rly awkward that ryan voted me without any explanation.

Didn't anyone notice that?

... Can you clarify whether you're joking or not?

[Xdaamno]

Well, I did have the day planned around lynching Max. At least, until I became more suspicious of you.

I didn't have the day planned around killing specifically Max

A direct, and I mean direct as direct can be, contradiction. Within like four posts!

Hm. You do realise that full second statement was:

I didn't have the day planned around killing specifically Max, but rather the most suspicious person, who just happened to be Max at the time.

, and therefore you took it out of context, and there's no contradiction at all...?

[Xdaamno]

I really don't like this:

It's rly awkward that ryan voted me without any explanation.

Didn't anyone notice that?

1. He's scared of ryan's vote, but awkward is a "safety word".
2. The question is a lot less assertive than it should be at this stage.

Unvote
Vote Sammich

More '~', less ''

[Xdaamno]

Waterboy has been vague or plain incorrect in most of the things he's said; it's not much, but with a short deadline, it's the best place to start a bandwagon, IMO.

Unvote, Vote: WaterboyWaldo

[Xdaamno]

I will greatly enjoy watching certain people make asses out of themselves by lynching me.

<- Certain people

(the original quote was by Fiasco iirc)

Wait, so you're admitting you're going to lynch the wrong guy? Or have I taken this statement wrong?

[Xdaamno]

Heh. Effectively an extended deadline, with extra results for cops and the like.

[Xdaamno]

I don't get Max's play, ftr. Very hard to explain vibes, but all his posts seem very random at this point.

Metagaming might cancel this out, though.

(Less setup speculation, more scum hunting.)

[Xdaamno]

Man, all this meta-game sub-game stuff is really confusing

. I can't even remember if Sarcastro was sub-killed or meta-killed.

110% agree with you on that note. You almost have to re-read everything just to get where we are currently.

The only thing I'm confused about is to how we go about identifying metagame scum when we've only had a single game :/

[Xdaamno]

/agree with pooky

I doubt mith would overlook something like that.

[Xdaamno]

I will refuse to unvote my other head's vote.

FoS: Max

Love, Flea

Am I missing something, or is this entirely based on Adele's reasoning? :/

[Xdaamno]

I can has strategies?

[Xdaamno]

I don't know if that's subgame-scummy or metagame-scummy.

vote: fiasco

Is there actually a difference? I mean if it's scummy, it's scummy right?

"Rather obvious" mistake (As in I suspect it could be intentional, though I have no clue why >.<)

I can see five possible explanations for the lack of a scum kill:

1. intentional no kill by the scum
2. successful doc protect
3. successful block
4. scum missed the deadline
5. scum hit a kill-immune SK

In case 2 the doc should probably not come out. In case 3 the blocker should probably come out. Agreed?

Uh, I don't get it. Why?

[Xdaamno]

1. Doc may have an innocent, blocker may have a guilty = more info
2. Doc will get nightkilled if out, blocker less so.

There's four other possibilities, and we can't tell which one it is; so this is up for all sorts of confusion. Though I could just be naturally suspiscious.

[Xdaamno]

Rose's jump on the wagon looked opportunistic, and for some reason targeted the weaker point (Max backtracked on what could easily have been a weird joke), rather than the, IMO, stronger one (We need to lynch

someone

before the deadline).

That said, I'd vote for that second point. How long is it until the deadline again?

[Xdaamno]

Hm, I wish I paid more attention reading the game while dead (You can tell I'm dopey, I posted while killed ).

I'm instantly suspiscious of Pooky with the metagame talk here, though I'll need to read it again. Anyone got an idea of who I should be looking at, here?

[Xdaamno]

I'm looking at Sammich at the moment, since I haven't heard much from him.

Why Sarcastro?

[Xdaamno]

I fail to see how the difference between the two would affect the situation in my PoV or in the town's.

Am I not getting something, or did you just say "Me

or

the town"?

[Xdaamno]

Oh, right, I mis-read.

[Xdaamno]

At the conclusion of the subgame, the voting phase commences. Players will have 72 hours to discuss in the thread, while submitting a vote in private, condorcet style (with tiebreakers: Smith/IRV), among the losers of the subgame. At the conclusion of the voting phase, the voting lists will be revealed, and one or two players will be eliminated from the metagame based on the results of the condorcet submissions.

Any good reason for this public voting? The votes will be public afterwards, so all I can see happening is the scum getting info here.

[Xdaamno]

I will be sending in my votes as mith has failed to realise not in the last post the post before I asked to be replaced

I doubt he missed it; he could be away/sick, or might have been irritated in your demands that people go look in Mish Mash for reasoning because you can't be bothered to spend 10 seconds copying and pasting

Also, I've submitted my list.

[Xdaamno]

So if Pooky is town, I feel his theories etc deserve another once-over, which I'll hope to achieve sometimes in the next

day

week

year

sometime.

[Xdaamno]

Actually, I'm sorry if anyone was put off by that. But look at the results yourself to see the source of my frustration.

The results of the voting? I'm not quite following :/

Though, apparently Fiasco knows what you're talking about, so I'd encourage him to respond, yeah.

[Xdaamno]

Ah, I really like this setup.

Vote: Fiasco

[Xdaamno]

Like with C9, the setup will be chosen at random from four options, with equal probability. The possibile setups are:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Cop, Doctor, 5 Townies
2 Mafia Goons, Cop, 6 Townies
2 Mafia Goons, Doctor, 6 Townies
Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, 7 Townies

WaterboyWaldo here.

That last setup has a mafia roleblocker with nobody to block. Seems stupid to me. And I don't know about you, but I think I think the Cop only setup is better than the Cop and Doc setup, due to the lack of Mafiablocker.

The last setup is intentional, and does two things; adds 'confusion' for the scum to balance the lack of power roles, and dosen't instantly confirm the setup for a scum RB.

While you may be right on the second point, it's more balanced than without the RB (IMO anyway).

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: V/LA till Monday.

[Xdaamno]

(Limited Access)

Huh? Quicklynch? Obviously not scum? Too awesome to die?

[Xdaamno]

(Limited Access)

Huh? Quicklynch? Obviously not scum? Too awesome to die?

Yeah, the terms are being thrown around in this game are quite strange

I'd call them a bit cliche; the last two are joking around, but I'd rather it was established whether they had any reasoning or whether it was 'the opposite' of RVing.

[Xdaamno]

Responding to prod. I didn't see any basis for suspiscion on Adele regarding the lists until

Pooks, max and kab I stand by.

Well congratulations, your top two candidates are dead, and they were both town, so forgive me if I don't trust your reasoning, especially cuz I know I'm town.

, which is a good point. Either way, Adele giving reasoning on her top three/whatever would be helpful, I agree.

[Xdaamno]

Pre-emptive respond to prod. I'm busy, but'll post some content today, with any luck.

[Xdaamno]

mike, you serious or not?

[Xdaamno]

mike, you serious or not?

Serious about what? I'm genuinely happy that the subgame is going in my favor, if that's what you are referring to.

No, I meant your 3 recent posts. I was wondering if you were joking, or sticking with your opinion.

/bait

[Xdaamno]

mike, you serious or not?

Serious about what? I'm genuinely happy that the subgame is going in my favor, if that's what you are referring to.

No, I meant your 3 recent posts. I was wondering if you were joking, or sticking with your opinion.

/bait

Actually, on a second glance, I read them wrong.

*Festive mind-wipe*

[Xdaamno]

Hopefully

I'll be able to get back into the game now, though I don't know where to start, since I haven't been following :/

Town vibes from mike, at the moment. Good observations.

[Xdaamno]

I don't have much of an idea on who I'm meta-voting here. IMO, it'd be a good idea to discuss

what to look for

, not just who to vote.

If we aren't going to care about the subgame, we might as well spend all of our time here discussing the metagame.

In particular, who is going to be on your next concordelajtwe list?

Agreed, I am much more interested in the metagame (sorry mod)

Sorry?

[Xdaamno]

[quote=mike]Meta scum? Based on some loose logic and not just my gut, I'd say Xdaamno and you (ryan) would make a pretty good scumpair. So would Sarcastro and Adele. If I had to hazard a guess at the third scum, I'd say Simenon.[/quote]

Heh. I was considering an 'in-before ryan/xdaamno' last post.

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