Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Madonna]

Actually...
UNVOTE: Almost50
I'd by lying if I said I town read you right now (I still lean scum on you), but I'm liking your response (and the reasons you gave for town reading Sakura's behavior I think make sense, although I still wish you'd just said why earlier), and the stench of scummy bullshit from Lowell and Chilledtea is just too strong. My vote belongs on one of them, now I just need to decide which one.

All this guy can do is OMGUS. Look, we all want to believe newb is town and can be taught, but it's clear his motivation is self-preservation rather than scumhunting. That he does the former while pretending to do the latter is not a bonus.

mhsmith0 is prepping where he is going. Clear indications present.

[mhsmith0]

@lowell: Here's one from me. Was your vote on me serious or just joke/reaction testing? That's an easy question with an easy answer.

Are you kidding? It's page 14. My vote is legit. Your playstyle is a put-on and you're scum.

Fucking hell, this is dumb shit

from mhsmith0

. Even joke/reaction votes are fucking votes. They may still exert the same pressure because all votes do the same fucking thing. Unless you fucking preface them with "for reaction purposes only" and can guess the voter will retract.

Actually it wasn't. I found his vote to be flagrant bs, so I wanted to address that possibility first. For all I knew, he WAS just reaction testing the newbie, which I'd have been unhappy about but is at least an explanation.

Once he said it wasn't, I engaged more seriously with it, since "I was just joking/reaction testing" had, by his own words, been eliminated as a backout explanation. How was this anything but obvious?

[Madonna]

That was all I had time for.

Would vote knightmare, Sakura Hana, or mhsmith0.

[mhsmith0]

@madonna: I WAS pretty obvious about where I was going, but I was clear I was looking at two spots. 330 was really where I made it clear. I said I'd give him a chance to impress me with a defense and that otherwise he got my vote. I found his post utterly crap, and there went my vote. Reducing my vote to "it's just OMGUS" is at absolute best lazy and obnoxious town. And way more likely desperate scum who simply has no defense.

Not really loving the chainsaw defense you're using either tbh.

[Lowell]

madonna looks good of late. I'd say sakura is probably the way to go.

Also, weekends bad for me. I'll check in, but may not be caught up until Monday.

Not that it matters, we're just gonig to chickenshit around until 5 hours before deadline.

[mhsmith0]

@lowell: Madonna looks good because_____?

[mhsmith0]

@all: The Lowell wagon is back down to L-2. I still plan on re-attaching my vote tonight barring a GOOD reason not to. And I am explicitly on record as being willing to hammer if he's at L-1 before I vote. I would REALLY like to see people who haven't really weighted in on things to comment on the wagon. Beyond that, Lowell had a chance to role claim or defend himself and chose not to bother to do anything other than toss in a seemingly random town read of madonna. I'd like him to come back and actually do something, but if he doesn't, he doesn't.

PS Just in case I am back to being in hammer position tonight, I'll try and have some more detailed thoughts on things other than just Lowell before I vote.

[chilledtea]

@all: The Lowell wagon is back down to L-2. I still plan on re-attaching my vote tonight barring a GOOD reason not to. And I am explicitly on record as being willing to hammer if he's at L-1 before I vote. I would REALLY like to see people who haven't really weighted in on things to comment on the wagon. Beyond that, Lowell had a chance to role claim or defend himself and chose not to bother to do anything other than toss in a seemingly random town read of madonna. I'd like him to come back and actually do something, but if he doesn't, he doesn't.

PS Just in case I am back to being in hammer position tonight, I'll try and have some more detailed thoughts on things other than just Lowell before I vote.

I think he meant Madonna is looking good for lynching? That's the way I took it.

I think him and Madonna are scum mates.

[Expedience]

@lowell: Here's one from me. Was your vote on me serious or just joke/reaction testing? That's an easy question with an easy answer.

Are you kidding? It's page 14. My vote is legit. Your playstyle is a put-on and you're scum.

Fucking hell, this is dumb shit

from mhsmith0

. Even joke/reaction votes are fucking votes. They may still exert the same pressure because all votes do the same fucking thing. Unless you fucking preface them with "for reaction purposes only" and can guess the voter will retract.

I know right, slight theory nitpickings always put me into a blind rage too.

[Expedience]

@Madonna: OK.. I'll bite. It's not like you need to read anyone's case though. All you need to do is ISO Lowell himself (just 19 posts in total, btw):

Note: I'm puling some excerpts, but linking each and every post so you can view in full.

1- 17 RSV
2- 57 Votes knight for... ????
3- 84 Reasoning for voting knight is basically "this guy is scum. I'm a gut player" while stating "not sure how, or why, this wagon started. But don't care."

NOTE: This came as a 5th vote on knight. Is it serious? Is it for a reaction? Is it for lolz?? Let's see:

4- 85 "Relax, kill, repeat."?? Is this how you play this game?
5- 89 "Let's do less thinking and more playing with our hearts... and guts.... kill knight."?? Less thinking?? Play with hearts and guts?? Like how you play.. roulette?
6- 90 Doesn't even count
7- 144 Accusing knight of being OMGUSy when knight obviously voted for a reason. Out of SIX people who voted knight up to that point (counting Sakura who had unvoted) knight ONLY voted Lowell. How's that OMGUSy?
8- 175 Not even sure who's that directed at.
9- 276 Knight isn't happening, so let's switch to smith for some reason. Also boon is town "because of his obnoxious multi-posts". (Now that's how you scum hunt alright :P )
10- 278 "Stop asking questions: vote mhsmith." (Now that's some convincing reason for someone to sheep them)
11- 283 "And wagons on newbs are fun, anyway." + "so I'm moving to an easier, hopefully more hilarious, target."
12- 316 Please do read this one. WHAT point? And how is Expedience giving him town vibes? (Expedience <<< @ Smith). Then 3 scum reads who are all strong town?
13- 318 No comment.
14- 320 Ignoring questions directed at him.
15- 327 Less than optimal response.
16- 354 Now accusing SMITH of being OMGUSy, when -in fact- smith had yet t vote him. Also where is this said "self-preservation" when smith is actually throwing everything including the kitchen sink into the game? The guy is relentless, doesn't hold back, isn't afraid of engaging others for whatever.
17- 358 Finally responds to a question. Not much of an explanation, but a response none-the-less.
18- 360 FIVE PEOPLE voting him and "no one believes I'm scum, they just think "meh, he's sort of annoying, and better him than me... sure I can live with that.""
19- 380 Votes Texcat, the reason being....???

So, you see.. out of 19 posts only one contained a glimpse of an intent to be playing the game. Otherwise, it's mudding, flirting, fluffing, being all sorts of anything but a scum hunter.

Please tell me what YOU saw in this ISO that you liked (apart from being funny at times)?

Hi, mobile posting. The issue with a critique of Lowell's ISO is that it is not a case brought by our fair voters. It can be easy justification at this point when playing to a biased crowd.

I may try to get another mobile post in later today, but I will be busy enough until my Sunday afternoon to do more than this Infuriating thing:

UNVOTE: Lowell

I had hoped to call a bluff, but people seem intent on following through with this nonsense. I do not have time in the day to manage this.

I do not think I can respond point by point with quotes on this device, but I will reread and try to convey the general idea, Almost50.

You need to explain this "bluff" in explicit terms of what you intended to achieve and how, because this hand-waving makes me think you're lying.

[mhsmith0]

I think that both Lowell and Madonna are deeply suspicious on their own. I'm not sure that any result for either one especially strengthens or weakens the case against the other. I feel like that gets into WIFOM territory all too easily. Then again, I could easily be wrong, and would welcome a good case to be made as to why I'm wrong.

PS I read "good" as "I'm town reading her". IMO I'm more suspicious of Lowell (town reading her w/o a reason, reinforcing 358) than I am of her from his note.

/ninjad @exp: see 330 for a fuller explanation of my reaction. His vote was awful. So I wanted to engage with the possibility it wasn't serious. I thought that was reasonable.

[Expedience]

I am OK with both madonna or lowell lynch today. At the moment the vote is on Lowell, but if you decide I am ok with Madonna. She is objectively scummy.

You should vote Madonna because I'm in a neighborhood with her and she scumslipped, I'm also a daycop and scum with her.

[chilledtea]

I am OK with both madonna or lowell lynch today. At the moment the vote is on Lowell, but if you decide I am ok with Madonna. She is objectively scummy.

You should vote Madonna because I'm in a neighborhood with her and she scumslipped, I'm also a daycop and scum with her.

.....Are you saying you are scum. Sorry I am not understanding this?

[Expedience]

You can read, yes?

[mhsmith0]

I am OK with both madonna or lowell lynch today. At the moment the vote is on Lowell, but if you decide I am ok with Madonna. She is objectively scummy.

You should vote Madonna because I'm in a neighborhood with her and she scumslipped, I'm also a daycop and scum with her.

Clarifying questions:

1) What was her scum slip?
2) Explicit day cop role claim and result or am I misreading? It reads like explicit claim. But I want to be 100%, not 98%.
3) Why not wait until the Lowell wagon went through to post day cop, and just rely on the neighborhood scum slip to push a Madonna lynch? Why out a PR seemingly uneccessarily? Do you think the Lowell lynch is bad?
4) How common is it to be BOTH in a neighborhood and day cop? Please remember this is my first "normal" game so apologies if that's a stupid question.

[texcat]

I really do not like Madonna's putting Lowell at L-1 and now claiming that she did it just to call a bluff. Especially when we've been warned that Boon has a hammer that's as quick as Ika's. I can't imagine that Madonna and Lowell could possibly be teammates as ChilledTea thinks, but I do think that one of them is likely scum.

Pedit: Exp??

[Expedience]

My post should be taken about as seriously as Madonna being town, that is to say it is a joke.

[chilledtea]

You can read, yes?

I think bad I am at EnglisGH

Just explain what you were saying. Are you scum? Are you daycop? Are you in neighbourhood with Madonna? What was her scumslip?? (thanks to mhsmith0)

Pedit : Okay. So it is a joke.

[Expedience]

Voting Madonna isn't a joke though, you should still do that.

[mhsmith0]

Is Lowell a bad wagon? Or is Madonna just a better one? I'm willing to think on switching,but I'm not there yet. Really liking the lowell wagon still.

[FA_Q2]

VoteCount 1.5

With 13 players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

Sayaka Maizono (0):

Almost50 (1):

texcat

Sakura Hana (0):

Lowell (5):

Garmr, knightmare, Almost50, chilledtea, Sakura Hana

(L-2)

mhsmith0 (0):

texcat (1):

Lowell

Garmr (0):

Boonskiies (0):

Madonna (3):

Expedience, Boonskiies, Goodlordwill

Goodlordwill (0):

knightmare (1):

Sayaka Maizono

chilledtea (0):

Expedience (0):

Not Voting (2):

mhsmith0, Madonna

The deadline is in

(expired on 2016-03-30 06:00:00)

[Almost50]

You should vote Madonna because I'm in a neighborhood with her and she scumslipped, I'm also a daycop and scum with her.

*Looks at quote... tries reading backwards... tries reading upside down... checks to see if it makes more sense if he stands BEHIND the screen...*

Like, I can't tell which part(s) are tongue is cheek and which are serious (if any).

[chilledtea]

I will if I thought it would reach a lynch. I am ok with either of them and think they are both scum.

The only thing with Lowell is that, sometimes I have know town apathetic people play like this. Absolutely not give a damn what happens, don't defend themself, just play for fun kind of. That is the only thing that scares me about him. If he is that then for me reading him will be very difficult.

[mhsmith0]

I am OK with both madonna or lowell lynch today. At the moment the vote is on Lowell, but if you decide I am ok with Madonna. She is objectively scummy.

You should vote Madonna because I'm in a neighborhood with her and she scumslipped, I'm also a daycop and scum with her.

Ok I get it. He's saying
1) neighborhood with her
2) day cop
3) AND scum buddies

I.e. He's totally joking. And I'm a bit of an idiot for missing it.

[texcat]

@madonna: is it your opinion that the wagon was a serious attempt to end d1 quickly?

This is a weird question and so is every instance where players in this game talk about serious votes. This is for everyone:

every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote,

because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this." I can accept votes that okay a lynch on a lukewarm read, but only if we are nearing deadline and the voter does not have a better, stronger read on someone else. No one should be saying that their vote is not serious, and if they are, maybe consider voting them to help make them realize what a vote means.

I do not think a wagon on knightmare was an attempt to end the day early. I think it was something which could lead to ending the day, but if the mafia were on a mislynch, it was for the sake of a mislynch, not a day ending move.

VOTE: Madonna

I agree that every vote counts, especially L-1 votes. This seems to go against her claim that her vote was a bluff.