Mini 1755: Game Over


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Post Post #650 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:21 am

Post by pisskop »

In post 88, AxleGreaser wrote:When not sure what to make of it.... if youare trying to figure the game out... you ask a bleeding question.

Posts like these are exactly how I feel about AIs early game. It was a shitty play, and while it seems it was an attempt to steer RVS it was shitbad. It leaves room for scum to follow, an excuse for town players to stay quiet (and thus scum can too), and suppose you found scum; only the least capable of adaptation would fold under such silliness.

It was a bad play that threatened to ruin early game; and you should be ashamed if you are town AI. Youve hurt the game.
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Post Post #651 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:45 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

In post 650, pisskop wrote:
In post 88, AxleGreaser wrote:When not sure what to make of it.... if youare trying to figure the game out... you ask a bleeding question.

Posts like these are exactly how I feel about AIs early game. It was a shitty play, and while it seems it was an attempt to steer RVS it was shitbad. It leaves room for scum to follow, an excuse for town players to stay quiet (and thus scum can too), and suppose you found scum; only the least capable of adaptation would fold under such silliness.

It was a bad play that threatened to ruin early game; and you should be ashamed if you are town AI. Youve hurt the game.
Dude, calm down. No matter how bad you think my play is, it is nowhere near as bad as self-voting to "prove a point". Talk about hurting the game. Look in the mirror.
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Post Post #652 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:45 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

only the least capable of adaptation would fold under such silliness.
And comments like these make me think I wasn't wrong.
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Post Post #653 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:53 am

Post by pisskop »

In post 6, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5, Burning_Earth wrote:First

VOTE: Pisskop


In post 0, Dierfire wrote:01. pisskop
02. Burning_Earth


You're Second, Pisskop was first. :/
VOTE: Burning_Earth

tee-hee


In post 7, AxleGreaser wrote:
Speaking of Stalking...

Keyser whats your
general
opinion of fake claiming?

I know people got onto the emphasis he put on 'general' fake claiming. If somebody asked me that I'd give them the textbook answer, and I have to admit Im not sure wht he hoped to gain from it. Maybe he thought that Keysor can appreicate explicit detail and would have produced a short wiki article worth of theory?
Nothing to write home about, but likely part of axle's personality.


The whole thing looks pointless to me. It still doesnt tell what he hoped to learn. And don't tell me he hoped to learn if Keysor was more opposed to them. Possibly written off as asking a detail-oriented poster about a topic, but I dont see the need to so early.


He asks why people are taking 7 as alignment indicative. For a person who claims to be used to dealing with 'the masses' (my term) and seems to recognize that he is often misunderstood he's sure not interested in either explaining himself so they can understand it or simply exercising proper judgement. It was a rather random question asked for unknown reasons early in the game. RQS? Maybe possible, however most RQSers I know tend to ask several questions or ask several people. Seems inefficient at the least.


In post 52, AxleGreaser wrote:RVS read

Again, RQS? :| If I had caught this early enough I would have followed up on it. As it sits its evidence he wasnt engaging in RVS proper or he isnt opposed to it.


@Keysor: What is your read on Axle again?



In post 88, AxleGreaser wrote:As was also indicated that arose from reading games

Dont call it stalking; just call it reading other games out of interest or meta-ing people.
In post 88, AxleGreaser wrote:I considered it possibility that kaiser might be tilted about fake Claims.

BUT WHY WAS IT A QUESTION YOU CHOSE TO ASK IN RVS? The motivation for doing such a dubious thing is in question.
I'm having a hard time seperating the wheat from the chaff with Axle. I guess I should 'stalk' him a little . . .


In post 90, AxleGreaser wrote:We (Ircher and I) will have a chat.

Wonder if this happened . . .
It kind of did, in . He gave a decent assessment of him, and seems to have read up on the game in question. Which I frank;ly dont know if he would be as scum.


In post 116, AxleGreaser wrote:meme lords like pro.
reasons like buzz saw.
As scum: has no scum meta.
As town: while hes on the money, with some observations about intent etc(33), like hes a seasoned player from elsewhere that has come here. (hence scary the first time he rolls scum), I also see signs hes relatively new to the game as a whole(but that is more a feeling).
As a player that reasons like buzz saw, when he rolls scum he may be scary. Maybe not the first time he does, but before long.

his is good stuff. I cant call it town stuff, but its a good assessment of Keysor.


Im losing interest and Id have to committ myself to a metadive of Axle, but felt weird, like a restating of my posts which he had just quoted. My initial impression is that they went through a translator into 'his language', so I thought maybe he was trying to assess me or that I was hereto misunderstood or even trying to sympathize with me. *shrugs*


288 is his meta on me. The gist seems to be that Im ornery and that I ignore 'bystanders' to attack 'insiders'. Actually the impression I got was that he compared me to scholars debating in a forum while bystanders occassionally pipped up to incorrectly add their 2 cents and get ignored. I prefer the idea of being a 'civilized barbarian' :nerd: . Analogies aside, its clear he used meta information and apparently read enough to pick out highlights.
Effort is not alignment indicative, but its easy to think it is.
In post 288, AxleGreaser wrote:More detailed analysis of specific points in Pisskops play yet to come.

I think one of the largest problems Im having here is determining his motivation. Why is he doing what he does?
Did he do the above, or was what he did sufficient? If he didnt do it because he didnt have to I cant call that outright scummy because its always optimal to do the least amount of effeort required to reach your goals.


Other posts like 327 have some info, but meh . . .
is a push on Ras, and thats something we can contrast him to later. So Im okay with it even if I thinks its mostly based on nothing strong.

He confuses me with his take on droog in 438. Did it not suffice to say that Droog was nullreading me, voting me, and then defending me by using AIs posts about me to challenge AI?



I think he's pushing to hard on Ras for unvoting in RVS. Its a compliment to a full case, but hardly strong enough to be the case by itself.
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Post Post #654 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:54 am

Post by pisskop »

In post 652, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
only the least capable of adaptation would fold under such silliness.
And comments like these make me think I wasn't wrong.

Youre welcome to show me bending like a brittle stick under pressure.
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Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #655 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:54 am

Post by pisskop »

but you have outstanding questions, and Im running out of places Id vote before you.
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Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #656 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:57 am

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Im bored now. I hope that helped people. I think I would vote performer, offhand for how he enetered the game and his level of activity.

I nullread Axle atp, if it wasnt clear. Theres a lot of effort thats implied; a lot. But its nothing I consider town, and I do have trouble with him.
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #657 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:59 am

Post by pisskop »

o.o



delightful.
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Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #658 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:29 am

Post by Boonskiies »

highlight his fluff? It'd be easier if I highlight what wasn't fluff. Ircher's entire posting is fluff and looking for something to stick.
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Post Post #659 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:19 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 658, Boonskiies wrote:highlight his fluff? It'd be easier if I highlight what wasn't fluff. Ircher's entire posting is fluff and looking for something to stick.

You cannot believe something 100% unles you prove it. So go right ahead and prove that the majority of my posts are fluff.
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Post Post #660 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:29 pm

Post by Keyser Söze »

@pisskop


AxleGreaser begins my ISO re-read as a town read.

AxleGreaser reacted the same way to Ircher's "most scummy" / "scummiest" comment as my own (post 51). AxleGreaser could see the "not understanding" on Ircher's part and wanted to get to the bottom of it ("need to chat") - AxleGreaser was quick to vote Ircher though before this "chat". I like the firmness of AxleGreaser's invitation for Ircher to explain his thoughts of why he is scum-reading him (post 61) - it sounds like a townie who knows he is in the right and is truly perplexed by the position his attacker is holding.

post 67 echoes this same confidence - I feel AxleGreaser believes he holds the right position. post 75 - AxleGreaser actually attempts to entertain AlwaysInnocent's early (troll) contributions and addresses them logically - my reaction to AlwaysInnocent's early posts was of frustration/anger. This tells me that he wants to engage with players in a productive nature.

I liked his insistence to follow up his query with Ircher (he was not 'fully satisfied'). This tells me for every question and problem AxleGreaser has raised, he truly wants clarification/resolution on - a townie wanting answers, and "clarity" of their read of a player.

AxleGreaser presents a meta-defence of pisskop I can buy into (post 288).

I like AxleGreaser's attention of a player's narrow focus on other players (post 373). Like me, AxleGreaser also has problems with Raskolnikov's reaction to pisskop's L-2 wagon (post 422). AxleGreaser goes deeper into the Raskolnikov scum theory by citing meta to explain his worry about
Raskolnikov's lack of town-motivation. AxleGreaser is very firm for players to explain their stands (post 609). I identify with this - I like to see what they are seeing.

AxleGreaser ends my ISO re-read still a town read.

I would not support an AxleGreaser D1 lynch.
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Post Post #661 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:31 pm

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 658, Boonskiies wrote:highlight his fluff? It'd be easier if I highlight what wasn't fluff. Ircher's entire posting is fluff and looking for something to stick.

If you want me to vote/lynch Ircher please show me the posts that support your argument.
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Post Post #662 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:58 pm

Post by Ircher »

Spoiler: Reads
Confirmed Town
(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keyser - Prob. the most towny player overall in game so far. I will just put this out there that later, like D3 or so, I will strongly reevaluate my Keyser read if he's still alive.
Pisskop - He's finally contributed some very useful info. And again, his playstyle is not something that I think (most) scum can successfully pull off.

Leaning Town

Golden Robster - Cannot really elaborate here, more gut than anythng.

Neutral

Performer - Where'd you go? You stop participating! I liked your entraced, but you have not said much since then!
AI - @AI : Please stop acting like you are omnificent and answer people's questions. It makes you look like scum (which is a possibility), and it also indirectly make me look like scum cuz you keep defending me.
Axle - Ok I guess.

Leaning Scum

Droog - My read on him is getting weaker as I speak -- at least he participates
Massive - Stop being lazy and contribute
Heat - Considering my other reads....

Likely Scum

Boon - Claims all my posts are fluff yet refuses to prove it. If it really was that obvious then it would be easy to prove. No, I'm a good lynch target as I have suboptimal play, so all the scum decide to target me. Those who are voting me I strongly believe is not because I am very scummy, but rather, I play differently from others and that makes me a good target to frame for a lynch.
Ras - Still one of my top scum reads as he has not really participated ever since Droog replaced in. While right now I think Boon is prpb. at the top of my list (some reasons are prob. selfish), I would think he be the best lynch for D1. None of his behavior has been extremely towny, and he has been around the top of my list right now.
UTL - This guy is somewhat subtle. It's only after reconsidering the other things that people have said about his play that I'm makes me start to doubt his sincerity. Droog has gone down my list because he's active, and Heat, well, I think Heat is being a bit genuine compared to some other people in this game. I will have to keep a closer eye on this one.

I am fully aware I have a ton of neutral/scum reads. The only way that's changing if all these lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras) start contributing a lot more.

I offcially hate lurkers right now. It killed town last game I played, and it's killing me right now.

My most confident reads right now are {Ircher, Keyser, Pisskop, Ras}. The rest are either kinda participating (AI, Axle), close to being lurkers (Golden, UTL), or lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras). This excludes Droog, who I just have a weak read on, and Heat and Keyser who are VA.

@Game: PARTICIPATE


Like I stated above, imho, Ras would be the most logical lynch right now.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Ras
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Post Post #663 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 623, pisskop wrote:Im awful confused why people think Im an easy lynch.

Its the way you play. Its different from the norm (so is mine it seems), so people dislike it. Anyway, other than a few early misunderstandings, I do think your playstyle is pretty effective.
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Post Post #664 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:06 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 626, AlwaysInnocent wrote:scapegoat taken away from you.

Ah, it is quite fun how scum try to target the so called "easy" tarhets only to find it is way more difficult than they imagined......
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Post Post #665 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:26 pm

Post by Heat »

In post 664, Ircher wrote:
In post 626, AlwaysInnocent wrote:scapegoat taken away from you.

Ah, it is quite fun how scum try to target the so called "easy" tarhets only to find it is way more difficult than they imagined......

don't flatter yourself.
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Post Post #666 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:32 pm

Post by Heat »

Oh I'm back home now too so I'll be able to post more stuff soon
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Post Post #667 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:50 pm

Post by Ircher »

[rev]Whatever[/rev]
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Post Post #668 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:57 pm

Post by Ircher »

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Red_Herring

Basically, AI has been doing the above the entire game.
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Post Post #669 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:04 pm

Post by Heat »

In post 668, Ircher wrote:http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Red_Herring

Basically, AI has been doing the above the entire game.

does this mean you think he's scum or..?
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Post Post #670 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:06 pm

Post by Ircher »

I just posted a reads list fyi. No, my gut tells me he's town, but his posts suggest he's scum. Therefore --> Neutral.
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Post Post #671 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:08 pm

Post by Heat »

missed it. thanks
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Post Post #672 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:11 pm

Post by Heat »

Am I only leaning scum because of poe or is there something else?

I'm still waiting for AI to tell me how I've been opp.
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Post Post #673 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:49 pm

Post by droog »

i could do a ras wagon
not my favorite but i
dont see anything good there
"...probably the worst player I have had the pleasure of playing with in the last ten years..."
"i dislike this guy immensely"
"the worst townie that ever I have ever had the misfortune to play with, by a long shot"
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Post Post #674 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:14 pm

Post by Dierfire »

Bump

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