Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Zeppo]

Vote:The Fonz

, he jumped the shark ages ago

[Zeppo]

i have a feeling that Niv and Lemming are mafia. lemming was starting to gain votes from all his bandwagon hopping, and i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy.
i think its probably easier for someone to say that i told them this and they never responded, and have the other person who never actually received anything look scummy.

so,

Vote Niv

Ckillor's thoughts make sense (regarding Niv and Lemming possibly being mafia) despite it being unliekly and not the best plan for the mafia if it's true. so

FOS Lemming

as well.

As far as I can tell Lemming had

two

votes on him before Niv called out Simenon. There was a vote count on page 3 in which he had none. Later Beastly and hmrox voted for him.

Ok, so there were a couple more people berating him who might have voted for him but it's still only two votes. So I find it hard to believe that Niv would make a move to protect a scum partner who's only received two votes when twelve are needed to lynch. Contrary to Zoneace I find Ckillor's thoughts to make no sense at all. I don't really know what to make of this, I'm just throwing it out there.

Unvote

, my vote for Fonz was a random vote and we don't really need it cluttering up the vote counts.

[Zeppo]

Someone suggested earlier (I think) that Zoneace might be a Jester. I think it's time to start seriously considering this. I can't believe that anyone would play as badly as he does. Especially since he is quite an experienced player.

[Zeppo]

It was clear where the day was headed. I was going to fall victim to a baseless lynch pushed by atleast one (and likely more) member of the mafia. the original votes i got, if you'll go back and look, were without merit, by people trying to throw suspicion off of themselves.

The lynch was hardly "baseless". The first vote against you was Simeonon's because you accused him and Niv of being scum

and

making up the entire masonic lodge. (Post 106)

I'm quite an inexperienced player so perhaps someone can correct me. But in a 12 man game surely making up a five man lodge is an extremely risky thing for the scum to do? What if there actually was a lodge? All five of the actual masons would have alarm bells set off because they would have reason to suspect the other lodge of being phoney (this is the bit I want clarification on: are two lodges in a 12 man game common?). The real masons would then coordinate during the night any easily lynch whover claimed to be in the fake-lodge. Either way making up a lodge is a huge gamble.

The next couple of votes on you were bandwagony but you can't just claim the whole suspicion of you was trumped up. You have to argue your case without throwing threats about everywhere.

I'm not sure if you're scum or not. To be honest, I don't really care. Either you are scum and therefore are a good lynch or you're just such such a bad townie at this point that lynching you in day 1 might actually be beneficial to the town in the long run because you won't confuse matters for the rest of the game.

FoS: Zoneace

Either make a good case why I shouldn't vote for you with your next post or I will.

[Zeppo]

Zoneace, how badly you're playing this game continues to flaw me. I stated quite clearly that the reasoning you had given, which I quoted, was that you were victim of a basless bandwagon pushed by scum.

I pointed out that the bandwagon wasn't baseless, Simenon had a good reason to vote for you. I even admitted that the following votes on you were slightly sus but you had to argue your case better than you have. Your failure to do this suggests to me that you are indeed scum. I don't see an OMGUS vote on me is doing you any good.

True to my word

Vote: Zoneace

[Zeppo]

If I wanted to just jump on a bandwagon I could have done it a long time ago Zoneace. If by lurking you mean waiting until I had something constructive to add before I posted then yes, I lurked. I posted that I thought you were a jester because I was considering trying to warn people not to vote for you. However I think a jester would surely have been set a post limit.

[Zeppo]

No I don't think the actual votes on zoneace are confusion. But about 90% of the discussion going on at the moment is about zoneace and most of that just people flinging insults at one another. It's taking away from more fruitful discussion

if

he is innocent and just not defending himself very well. That said my vote on him still stands because I find said lack of defense scummy.

I take JDodge's point though (post 338). I have to admit I have my suspicions of Yamahako for his vote on Zoneace which seemed rather flimsy at the time. However he's far from #1 on my list right now.

[Zeppo]

I'll have a more thorough reread tomorrow I'm going to bed now.

[Zeppo]

I read through a couple of Zoneace's other games. He seems almost as obtuse in those as he is in this. I suppose I'll swallow my pride and admit that the main reason I voted for zoneace isn't that he seems

that

scummy but because he is annoying the tits off me.

That's not a very good reason to vote for someone, even if it is a very tempting one.

So

unvote

for now. Although I will be thinking carefully about reconsidering if he makes any more moves I consider scummy.

[Zeppo]

Showed up out of nowhere? I made one post early on then waited until I had anything to add before posting again rather than clutter up the place with useless posts. I put forward the idea you were a jester and asked you to respond with a reason why I shouldn't vote for you. If you gave a well reasoned post like the one above I never would have. Instead you came up with this gem:

unvote VOTE ZEPPO

clearly you haven't been paying attention, what makes you think you're so special that you deserve some sort of extra argument when i've already made my case.

i think it should be clear that at this point anyone voting me is to be looked at with suspicion.

[Zeppo]

Any reasons?

[Zeppo]

HAVE EXPLAINED ALL THREE OF MY VOTES THIS GAME. THEY'VE HAD MORE REASON THAN OMGUS JESUS CHRIST GET SOME FUCKING READING COMPREHENSION.

can we lynch this half wit???

UNVOTE but FOS Zeppo

VOTE WHITE

The entire case against MoS is crap, and well you're pushing REALLY hard at me, despite the fact that the case against me is CRAP.

The only reason you gave with your vote here was that white was "pushing really hard at you". As I see it that's pretty much the definition of OMGUS. The only yes

only

thing that White said about MoS was

MoS is acting weird but i've got no read on him.

This is what I mean when I say I wouldn't mind you lynched because you're distracting. You just completely derail everything into personal attacks.

Still, atm my favourite for scum is Yamahako.

Hey guys, almost done with my read through.

This is not a vote for Yamahako.

Why is it never a vote for Yamahako?

I'm obviously not scum!

Vote MOS

This isn't the first vote he's just thrown a vote out there without really justifying it.

FoS: Yamahako

, will probably up this to a vote later tonight or tomorrow after a reread.

[Zeppo]

Jester anyone?

Have a look at the other posts including mine re: jesters. Even at best it's unlikely that there'd be a jester in the game so it's probably not worth factoring in, plus if you look at zoneace's other games he does indeed always play like this (which is not a good thing IMO).

[Zeppo]

I quoted the entire sentence, I was hardly taking you out of context.

[Zeppo]

i forgot to bold

but

Vote:Flare

for haveing a name like a mini flameaxe

Vote Ckillor

Early random vote, not too much to read into here.

Vote ZONEACE

I think this is a good direction.

Strike 1

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!.

So it was in the scum PM. I see.

Vote Simenon

.

This post frankly confuses me. I think a vote for Simenon could have been justified at that point.

Hey guys, almost done with my read through.

This is not a vote for Yamahako.

Why is it never a vote for Yamahako?

I'm obviously not scum!

Vote MOS

Strike 2



These are all of his posts except for a gripe about his name and an unvote. Two pretty random votes in there. Not enough to warrant a vote on him I don't think, but he's definitely on my radar.

[Zeppo]

he does indeed always play like this (which is not a good thing IMO).

you know, i almost want to be modkilled, this is so friggin useless.

you people are stupid.

am i playing like this in NOXKill? NO, am i playing like this in Match of Champions, NO, am i playing like this in the noob game i'm in NO, did i play like this is Shadyville? NO did i play like this in Mystery in Shadyville NO. did i play like this in DP9? NO.


honestly, READING COMPREHENSION. you all speak english right? why then are you all having SOO MUCH TROUBLE reading?

I should reread.... didn't MoS say that you always played like this which you agreed with? I'll go back and try and find some quotes.

[Zeppo]

Erg0 is full of win. Sir Tornado is full of fail.

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

Zoneace is not scum. You think he's scum because you have never played with him before. Or, you know he's not scum and are pushing a lynch on him because you think he's an easy target and don't realize that those of us who've been around this whole time know the Zonace isn't acting scummy.

Okay so he wasn't quite saying that you always play like this.

However in this game viewtopic.php?t=1478&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0
You were scum, you were lynched day 1 and you played similarly though not

as

to how you played now. (I chose this game because it's the most recent game I could see that had finished).

I find your play to be fairly rubbish and your lack of a good defense could well mean you're scum. Your buddying up with MoS only makes me more suspicious.

[Zeppo]

QBWOE that should have read "though not as badly as to how you played now"

[Zeppo]

Well that's confusing but okay.

[Zeppo]

Jdodge, can I hear a case against me? Do you have a case against me?

No to the first, yes to the second

FoS: JDodge

for not stating his case against white.

Unvote, Vote ZONEACE

There may be a method to my madness...

Vote: Yamahako

For constantly spewing out posts like this. See above, if there is a method then state it. The only reason I'm voting for you and not JDodge is that there's already some votes on you so if you aren't scum then hopefully the pressure will squeeze

something

useful out of you.

[Zeppo]

There is no point in playing with someone who insists on playing like a retard and flaming people repeatedly out of immaturity. At least ZONEACE is actually playing the game, even if it's in his style to use AdHom. Lemming is just being immature and annoying as hell. I don't want him in this game anymore.

Knock it off zoneace has been flaming far more than Lemming has. And at least lemming's votes didn't contain so much swearing that it actually offended me. There is a rule against excessive profanity and flaming, you're right I would like to see it enforced.

[Zeppo]

Profanity != Flaming. Lemming is flaming for no reason at all.

Fine, allow me to amend my quote. Zoneace has been profaning far more than Lemming.

[Zeppo]

Unvote, Vote: Yamahako

Scum.

Need I say more?

If you don't need to... I shouldn't need to...

Maybe you should both say more.

[Zeppo]

My vote for Yamahako wasn't counted, however it seems Yamahako is voting for himself, which is definitely not a good strategy.

[Zeppo]

unvote, vote booboodafool

Celtic doesn't do anything, and then booboo immediately shows up with a 'person C' vote.

Granted it wasn't a megapost but at least booboodafool is posting something. And votes for Yamahako are votes in the right direction in my opinion.

[Zeppo]

Unvote

. Yamahako's last few posts have actually been constructive (except his very latest one which is

such

a Person C vote but meh), I'm not convinced of his scuminess.

I think I'll have to do a reread before I can vote for anyone else. Frankly I haven't got suspicions of anyone right now.

[Zeppo]

This 32 page day 1 is hard enough to follow in English.

[Zeppo]

Why is TVZ getting away with being scum? We should vote him more, plz.

What he said. Zorg is wagonny, over-cautious and inconsistent.

QFT! These guys are good.

Why is TVZ getting away with being scum? We should vote him more, plz.

More votes on Zorg would be nice. Let's see if he cracks under pressure

Yep, we get it. I don't like how aggressively you go after Zorg. I reread his posts myself and really nothing particularly leaped out at me as scummy.

Unvote, Vote: booboodafool

Person C arguments are among the most accurate, in my opinion. Good catch, The Fonz

And yet this is a Person C argument itself! It seems like you took an opportunity to just put pressure where you could.

Vote: MoS

[Zeppo]

Zeppo: Zorg, Lemming, Zeppo, Beastly.

I honestly haven't a clue what this means.

As much as I hate to say it I don't think a deadline would be a bad thing we seem to be getting nowhere.

[Zeppo]

Wow, plenty to respond to. Ok, let's begin.

Beastly, you may not be aware of this but asking questions does in fact play a part in scumhunting. You completely ignored the whole thing between me and Ether which would easily be considered scum hunting. Notice how i've been very consistent too, is that scummy? Because last time I checked, Zorg was getting run up for being inconsistent. Why do I hate lurkers so? Beats me, but I do. I think that much is obvious.

how do you decide which lurker is scummier than the other lurkers and pick who you're going to buddy up to?

Ask Ether.

Are you saying Ether is indiscriminately buddying up to the whole lot of them?

Uh, read the post. The answer to that question is obviously no.

How is buddying up (the whole concept is dodgy but hey) to lurkers suspected of being scum doing their work for them???

Ever heard of the common scum tactic of buddying up to townies? Yeah, same thing except the townie is buddying up to the scum. Makes no sense, which is why i'm voting her for it.

If the lurkers are scum, isn't bad for Ether that they'll come out, and be all warm and fuzzy with Ether?

Yes. Doh. That much is very obvious. You seem to forget that this lack of logical thinking is what's drawing me to VOTE for Ether. This is NOT a defence of Ethers actions. Get it straight.

perhaps you could post your suspicions of everyone.

Oh look, a question, I can answer those. Gee if more people asked questions....Hmm.

This'll be short and quick:

Aimee: Has contributed a lot when she has posted but hasn't posted that much. Prob town.

Sim: Tunnelvisioned and seems to want to appease mass majority. Likely anti town.

TS: Lurker, unhelpful, attempts to confuse things that aren't confusing. Likely anti town.

Fonz: Semi Lurker. Pops in here and then. I'd say he's right in the middle. When he does post there are usually a good point or two in there but not as good as Aimee. Likely town.

Jdodge: Lurker, unhelpful, pushing my wagon without a case (unless you show me one, you don't have one). Likely anti town.

Ether: Semi lurker. I've generally appreciated many of her posts until just recently when she seemed to overconfuse my posts and thoughts on her. I'm guessing she took it as a personal attack, which it wasn't. Seems to be buddying up to lurkers which I can't see as a protown strategy. Likely anti town.

Sir T: Hasn't really contributed much. Seems more interested in proving a point or showing that he's right than actually trying to find scum. However, i'm in another game with him and he's doing the same thing so i'm taking this as a playstyle difference. Due to the number of scum i'd have to put him in the town pile

MoS: I've found myself agreeing with many posts by him, he genuinely seems to be seeking scum. Likely town.

Yama: Continues to be a wildcard. When he posts, his posts are generally helpful but he doesn't post all that much. Seems there needs to be pressure on him to get him to contribute. The feeling I get when reading his contributing posts is sincerety so i'll pop him in the town pile.

Lemming: Sadly i'm completely unable to get a read on this guy which means I really should do an isolation read through but i'm lazy and don't want to, so I won't yet.

Zoneface: Everyone knows how I feel about him.

Zorg: Another one that i'm having trouble getting a read on. I mean him and lemming but just seem to have a lot of fluff and little real substance. That's just the overall feeling I get when reading his posts so i'll just have to say IGMEOY.

Setael: I like that Seta is contributing so much but I find myself not really agreeing with all she says. However it does look genuine so i'll say likely town.

Flare: Lurker, unhelpful, runs long posts but doesn't really seem to say much. Likely scum.

Kscope: Lurker, unhelpful, not searching for scum, tunnelvisioned. Likely scum.

Beastly: It seems I have trouble getting reads from all the "townsperson"s in the game because beastly also falls under the catagories of Lemming and Zorg. However what I can do is rank them, scummiest: Zorg, Lemming, Beastly least scummy. Beastly seems more sincere.

Niv: I don't get this guy, I disagree with what he did but can understand that he thought it would help catch scum. I think he jumped the gun and ended up outing 2 masons. Then after that whole thing calmed down he practically disappeared, where? No clue. I would like to see a lot more from this guy but I guess i'd have to put him in likely town.

Erg0: Not too much to see here, of his posts i've appreciated most of them. He seems to actively be looking to progress the game and move past the stupid things some of us are doing. Seems like a protown thing to do so i'll call him likely town.

Zeppo: Zorg, Lemming, Zeppo, Beastly.

Booboo: I can't put my finger on whether he's another zoneface or scum. Due to my quantity of scum so far i'll call him likely town as well, but only barely.

Flame: Oh, he's playing this game? Post more. Likely town I guess.

unvote

Vote White

Bandwagon much? Let's hear a case.

Why is ether a productive vote?

I'm not sure what you're referencing here.

What "stage" do you think we are in right now?

The one after the random voting stage but before the stage where people start to scumhunt and stop being stupid.

What should be the play expected of townies?

I don't know, my guess would be scumhunting, asking questions and trying to find inconsistencies with other people's posts.

What are your priorities today?

Generally my priorities in all games are to have fun, acheive my win condition and learn. The first and the last are out the window for this game so right now i'm just trying to find and lynch scum.

I have reread this post and it is still as clear as mud to me. Perhaps I am being thick but someone please spell out what White is saying about me.

[Zeppo]

Read his comments on each of the players he lists against you. That's his scumlist.

GRAH. Sorry to derail at such a crucial time but.... that list of players next to me includes me, how can I read the comments on me?

*sigh* nevermind. Now I just have to sleep on it and decide who's claim I believe more after a reread.

unvote

[Zeppo]

Whelp, Lemming comes across to me as being the far more convincing of the two cops. So the question I have to ask myself now is could there be multiple cops? Sure there could. But it's far from guaranteed. I have my suspicions of other players, namely those that I voted for, but I wasn't dead certain about any of them. So for now at least TS seems the best lynch,

Vote: Toaster Strudel

[Zeppo]

I don't see why a claim should save TS from being lynched if that claim is not believed. If I thought there was a better lynch than TS I would be voting for that person. I'll post saying why I feel Lemming is more convincing than TS when I get the chance, hopefully today or tomorrow, but I've gotta dash now.

[Zeppo]

I find Lemming to be the more convincing because he claimed when I didn't feel there was much pressure to do so. Granted he was at -2 but flameaxe's, zoneace's and JDodge's votes came on very quickly. Given a bit of time someone could easily have unvoted because they weren't happy lynching him. Then he came out with this

In a big game like this, where multiple cops are often encountered, a player is better off discretely

investigating

a cop claimant the next night, rather than outing himself with a counterclaim during the day.

Especially on Day 1 - it's bad enough I made myself a target by playing badly, now you've made yourself a target too, and neither of us has had the opportunity to investigate anyone.

Which looks to me like he's trying to discredit Lemming for claiming under much better reasons than he himself claimed under.

In regards to Setal's posts against me. The zoneace crap I admit that I played very badly and would much rather not bring that up all over again unless I really have to. Let me just say though that at a the time I voted for him I felt suspicious but at after I had calmed down and reread I realised that what I had found suspicious was really more just annoying than anything else.

I dropped the Jester idea because more experienced players said that it was highly unlikely and not worth considering. The bit that really stinks about your post is that you say that I wouldn't want to be throwing my vote around when I have actually voted for several people in this thread. That's how I like to play, I have a vote and I will use it as I consider FoS pretty weak. Perhaps if more people spoke with their vote we wouldn't be deadlined right now, huh?

You say it's not a competition to see which cop I think was scummy but when Lemming claimed to be a cop he in the same post voted for Toaster Strudel. I am throwing my lot behind him because I believe he is a cop and don't believe TS is a cop and I have no one I would rather be voting for. I would much rather see pressure on TS now and see how he holds up than drop all pressure on him just because he said a magic 3 letter word.

[Zeppo]

Perhaps rather than have anyone being forcibly replaced now we could say that from now on anyone who swears is forcibly replaced?

[Zeppo]

Fair enough but it seems a bit out of hand when two players are asking for the other to be removed for the second time in the game.

[Zeppo]

I would like lemming, simenon and ZONEACE to look over the Zeppo case and see if it's a reasonable alternative to lynching a claimed cop so early. If not, I would like your reasons why.

I do believe lemming's claim more than TS's, but I think it would be wise to get results from both their investigations before lynching one. Also, imo any doctors out there would be wise to protect lemming over TS.

In fact, considering that TS is likely scum and she is on White's wagon (in fact at this point she's the deciding vote which means White is likely Town), I think all those on the White wagon should also consider moving their vote. I recommend Zeppo, but I think MoS is a good 2nd choice. There is a good chance that he was planting the idea that there could be multiple cops in order to protect TS.

Urgh this is exactly what's bothering. Yeah I'm new so maybe I just haven't worked out why lynching a claimed cop is such a cardinal sin. But a claimed cop is just that- claimed. It depends on whether you believe them. In your quote above you obviously seem pretty convinced that TS is scum and yet you would rather lynch me. Cop claim aside would TS look a better lynch than me? If so maybe

I

should just come out and claim cop!

[Zeppo]

Stuff about cops

Yeah that does make sense, especially the stuff about the night kill which I hadn't thought about, so

unvote

for now.

[Zeppo]

That if they actually are a cop and the scum decide to night kill them (even assuming there is no doc protection on them that would make them waste their night kill completely) then it means someone else didn't get night killed, sparing the life of a useful townie.

[Zeppo]

^Having another useful townie spared is a bonus, and the clincher for me. I can see the advantage of having the two investigations whether they are true or false to work off later in the game but that alone didn't seem enough to spare a suspected scum.

[Zeppo]

*sigh* Okay I should stop making such short, rushed posts because I am not maknig myself clear. I will now completely disregard my own advice because I have a lecture in 10 minutes.

Before I didn't have too much qualms about lynching a claimed cop I thought was scum because even if he did turn out to be pro-town I thought he would be dead by morning if we didn't lynch him because the scum would go

"Ha now we know who the cop is we can night kill him."

But now I realise it would be more like.

"Well <insert useful townie name here> is onto us and I would really like to off them so that we have a better chance of winning, but we will have to leave them alive because we are night killing that cop."

And even then they might not do that because we don't know if there is a doc in the game who would make the obvious choice of night killing the cop a little less obvious because he could be protected, which I should have thought of earlier but I am not the sharpest knife in the draw (I could actually be a spoon)

[Zeppo]

Can someone please state exactly what the Zeppo or Zorg b/w is all about? Or a link to the original argument or something?

The original case on me was in post 972 which I responded to in post 974 and then I don't think anyone ever bothered responding to to my post although I might have missed it.

And then more recently votes have come over from the last page or so because I wanted to lynch TS because I thought (and still do think) he is scum but despite the fact he claimed to be a cop.

[Zeppo]

Oh great. First latin then trying to make quote pyramids. If anyone actually wants to play would they mind looking responding to me last post?

[Zeppo]

@Simenon: Rather than just saying it's dumb, could you point out any errors in logic or things I am misunderstanding? Because... nothing has been said by zeppo or anyone else to refute it at all.

See my post on the last page. That has a post number for where I dealt with the original allegations against me (which were ignored then as well). As for the more recent allegations to do with my voting for a claimed cop, you just need to look over the last few pages to see my thoughts on that.

[Zeppo]

Damn. Please read over Setael's posts in the morning.