NY 191: Denmark Mafia - Endgame

[Espeonage]

Fucking shits making like 7 pages.

I'm LA at the moment and I am VLA from 4th to the 7th.

Fucking never should have joined a large.

Here is what's happening, keeping in mind I have yet to read the thread.

Titus dies before day 5 idc what's happening unless I get a really damn strong townread on her.

Y'all might actually get me reading through shit but don't count on it.

Ok in other news. Some people are off the table day 1. These include Titus, RC, Elyse, and Shinobi. They all players I respect enough to give time so I will be against any of their lynches. Elyse is gonna get shitty bc I've never paid her attention in a game but that's bc it's been ages and sh probs dun remember me.

Nothing more from me unless someone actually shits me.

[Espeonage]

respect =/= like

Elyse shits me, doesn't mean she don't get shit done.

[Espeonage]

7 pages is probs not in rvs zone.

btw just went and had a look bc this went from role pms to gamestart before I was online. And I am p sure there are at least 6 anti town slots, as per the unwritten modding rule that you never start a game unless there is at least one scum confirmed. And a third of the game being scum is p damn rough.

[Espeonage]

Shiro: hi. Do me a favor? Ask Frozen Angels three questions that'll help you get a read on her.

This is literal shit. Do your own legwork.

[Espeonage]

Finished page four. Mario would be scum for what he did, EXCEPT THIS IS A NORMAL GAME and I am damn sure mario knows this. WHich means it's not subversive it's jovial. Mentality is absent, wagon is bad.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Grib

[Espeonage]

Mod, do you have a wincon? Is it the same as Ploti's wincon? Will you get shitty if I steal pagetops?

This is not a game related post.

[Espeonage]

I don't see anything wrong.

[Espeonage]

Why even pick you rc?

There are so many better choices. Aj slips a lot regardless of alignment, I am notorious for being lynched early bc of my give no shits early, Elyse is known to be abrasive. You have a consistently clunky day 1.

That makes no sense.

[Espeonage]

It's not a secret firebringer is young and not the best, which still makes it a bad idea.

Scum don't always make good ideas tho. :/

I don't think you're going to get a wagon with just that line.

[Espeonage]

It's not a secret firebringer is young and not the best, which still makes it a bad idea

Young?!! whats this all about.

I can't see your point. do you have a problem when people are voting "youngs" ?! :/

Replace with inexperienced, sorry.

[Espeonage]

Hey AJ, any other thoughts on the game besides MarioManiac?

I have an issue with this. You openly consider me scum and then softball some 'question' at me to show your belief as such. There's literally zero conviction behind your read. Not only that, this question is pretty worthless given that the content so far had MAINLY been RVS and Mario's issues.

Bad question, low motivation in it given his position on me.

Why even pick you rc?

There are so many better choices. Aj slips a lot regardless of alignment, I am notorious for being lynched early bc of my give no shits early, Elyse is known to be abrasive. You have a consistently clunky day 1.

That makes no sense.

?? I don't scum slip a whole lot. I don't believe I 'townslip', somewhat on the grounds that I don't believe in townslips. And I think I've only played with you in like two games...

Anyways.

@Heat If I'm not looking for scum ... are you looking for scum then? :/ By just sitting there and calling people noisy?

Doubles down on the noise thing in the follow-up post. I'm not someone who uses the so-called 'noise to content' indicator or whatever the hell it is, but the logic in this post is painfully wrong. The amount of discrediting here, coupled with a bit of fallacious logic does signal scum.

That's nice, Firebringer.

Plan on doing anything relevant soon?

Grib can be scum. These questions are an active attempt to sound engaged but in reality nothing more than a half-assed attempt to shift the workload to someone else.

I've also modded you and replaced you.

[Espeonage]

Firebringer's the same age as you, you dolt.

I thought he was one of the teens, soz.

[Espeonage]

Also my second question to Espeonage was supposed to be "what does the game being normal have to do anything?" I got it mixed up with another quote.

It changes the mentality when it is explicitly known that there is no gameside consequence to the action.

[Espeonage]

And I'd have to go digging. It's been at least three games though.

[Espeonage]

Cookies...I has then. Vote Dave please.

My resistance has been shattered

VOTE:DAV

:9

[Espeonage]

Also fire, you didn't answer if you had Titus as town.

Not positive on that yet.
She townreads me early, but she also did that in the Blitz and it makes me worried.

Sort me. :-p

Bruh das one heck of a trap.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Grib

Espo.
Talk to me.

What's going on with this?

It's above it.

Not buying the mario wagon so counter is still up for grabs until the dav wagon took off which I haven't looked at yet.

[Espeonage]

What is the scum motivation for saying I was going to post a VCA? Tell me.

To look productive but your not actually being productive?
I don't know, I am forcing one here and this isn't directed at me

Why wouldn't I just make a VCA then to make it seem like I was? The entire case around the VCA thing makes no sense.

dwlee is actually right here.

[Espeonage]

Hm.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Davsto

I don't like his vote, and I want to see how these wagons pan out against each other.

Why did no one join me?

My vote stands.

[Espeonage]

So Firebringer, what the fuck am I supposed to do?

I think Titus is scum and she won't engage with me. You think I'm scum for trying to force her to engage with me so everyone else can see how scummy she is.

How the fuck do you work that out?

I think he is saying that you both look town for it.

Cookies...I has then. Vote Dave please.

My resistance has been shattered

VOTE:DAV

:9

What : D

[Espeonage]

Ok read to end of page 20. I use the term read loosely.

Titus needs to chill it and while hypocritical, the off topic needs to end.

Dense doesn't even begin to cover the thread atm and it's a shitfight to read.

[Espeonage]

I am packing.

[Espeonage]

Dav wagon is very day 1, you are correct on that.

[Espeonage]

Anyone wanna take bets that this setup is multiball?

Ill take 20 on that.

100% I already posted the maths on why there at least 6 scum.

[Espeonage]

Ok I need to read this game. It will not happen tonight or tomorrow as I need to recover. (We came third in Australia. Holy shit it was epic) And it won't happen until at the earliest Tuesday night because I have work in the morning after I finally get back home.

But just letting you all know I am alive and on a major high right now.

[Espeonage]

Unvote

Not time for vanity wagoning.

What's happening?

[Espeonage]

Unvote

Not time for vanity wagoning.

What's happening?

Lynching pistachi0n

Sorting people

Making a strong townblock

Fun stuff

Bolded seems incorrect. Do you have evidence to back this view up?

[Espeonage]

That was a serious question.

[Espeonage]

The fuck else would you run. Eviolite doesn't patch anything, choice means you can't run fake out. Legit only option.

Now to my question. It's serious because I actually have no idea why someone would be having fun waiting around for the leading lynch target. That raises issues for me. Does it not for you? I feel like it should.

[Espeonage]

tbh espeonage if you wanted things to be more interesting you could have shared your thoughts about anything that is going on instead of just only now realising that voting grib for the last 1125 posts was useless

been vla I am probably about half the game behind. So baby steps.

[Espeonage]

It raises issues such as ?

It not like that is all that has been going on and I am trying to be entertained from the game no matter it's state.

How you can be enjoying nothing. Because to me it seems somewhat of a slip that you are scum and pistacion is a mislynch and you are happy that it's going through. Why else would you be having fun with nothing?

[Espeonage]

Vote: Shiro

[Espeonage]

I'm just going to assume Espo is confirmed mafia from here on out because he is playing so badly that I refuse to believe he is town.

Pedit - make that double for the person that also just posted.

hmmm?

[Espeonage]

Didn't know the timing.

But I have big issues with anyone who is going to hint that they are happy with game state just after saying there is an impending lynch. How does that not ring serious alarm bells for people.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: pistachion

[Espeonage]

Unvote

[Espeonage]

Titus seems more forthright than normal. Especially with over two days left. And that's an achievement for her.

[Espeonage]

AJ, make a wall case on someone if you want to live.

Yeah this is a p shitty post.

Not keen on either wagon rn.

[Espeonage]

Given that Elyse is null as is almost everyone, and given that Titus twinged me late day 1. Consider me in support of Titus lynch for the moment.

[Espeonage]

I don't think I ever said that?

Though I think Pig and Esp are scum so. Esp being null on everyone after less than 10 pages is pretty acceptable and then Shiro can die after scumpig flips.

ftfy

[Espeonage]

Why are people treating Titus as conf town when she is quite clearly uncomfortable. Wanting to lead a town is not townie for a player that likes being in control like Titus does. In fact if anything her insistence has me on edge, if she feels the need to force it, then she is feeling like it is important for her to win, which means that she feels pressure, which given the current situation only makes sense if she is scum.

Vote: Titus

[Espeonage]

Hahahaha

The second sentence is a walking contradiction. :-p

Null action is a null action is not a contradiction.

[Espeonage]

Hahahaha

The second sentence is a walking contradiction. :-p

Null action is a null action is not a contradiction.

If my being in control is a null action, why do you state it's not townie?

Because null doesn't equal town. Is that not really really obvious?

Also, I see I made your list. Is this because I am attacking you or do you have a yet unstated case?

[Espeonage]

Hahahaha

The second sentence is a walking contradiction. :-p

Null action is a null action is not a contradiction.

Null action? You based your suspicion and vote on it.

No I based my suspicion on her drive using the fact that she made a null action and took it to a place that distorts how it usually plays out.

It's all there. I even made it in what is effectively dot point form so it was simple to follow.

[Espeonage]

Esp you need to give us your full read list ...

lolno

[Espeonage]

I get the distinct feeling Espeonage doesn't actually care about the game.

Actually I do, which is precisely why I am doing what I'm doing.

[Espeonage]

Whats your stance about Elyse ?

idk

Your happy about Elyse for calling Titus in 1v1?

yeah

Whats your stance about Nero and his reads about you?

misguided

whats your stance about Shinobi?

decidedly town over a very small period of time.

responses in bold.

[Espeonage]

Full notes. Drixx. I know you has injury. I has sads.

Second, your last post makes no sense.

Drixx is saying I don't look like last time, last time I was scum, therefore I am null rather than a scum read.

That was also p obvi. Are you reading posts or shooting blindly?

[Espeonage]

Then do something other than complain about how obvtown I am. I am Santa's terrible baker. If you want to get presents, you gotta be on the nice list. :-p

Voting Elyse is a good start.

Speaking of which Dwelee, why won't you vote her?

I don't want any present scum has for me, thanks but no thanks.

[Espeonage]

Full notes. Drixx. I know you has injury. I has sads.

Second, your last post makes no sense.

Drixx is saying I don't look like last time, last time I was scum, therefore I am null rather than a scum read.

That was also p obvi. Are you reading posts or shooting blindly?

The literal text makes sense.

The logic does not.

There's not even much to comprehend.

Lets make this really easy.

1. Drixx has some experience.
2. He applies it here.
3. It says that my play here does not mirror that of when I was scum with him.
4. So therefore he downgrades his scumread of me.

That is the literal it.

[Espeonage]

All this talk about how many scum there are and I went over this in like my first post.

Y'all could have been paying attention. At least pretend you care what I post.

[Espeonage]

7 pages is probs not in rvs zone.

btw just went and had a look bc this went from role pms to gamestart before I was online. And I am p sure there are at least 6 anti town slots, as per the unwritten modding rule that you never start a game unless there is at least one scum confirmed. And a third of the game being scum is p damn rough.

ok my third post.

[Espeonage]

In case the last bit of that is hard to understand because apparently people can't read.

There are too many scum for a single scum team. This game is 100% multiball.

Which I might add is why my issues with Titus are so important. Multiball means that scumhunting is legit. From everyone. Which means that motives in actions is the way to catch scum. Can y'all stop being shits look at player mentalities please. Thanks.

[Espeonage]

So?

People picking same target. The death makes sense from any scum group tbh. Also there can be protections. Another golden rule of set up creation is make sure the game doesn't end too quickly. There must always be ways to curb kills in multiball. That's one of the things common in all the setup theory articles and is just common sense.

Look at the facts.

At least 6 scum.

That is the only fact because otherwise the game is farcical due to the ability for the game to be occuring with no scum. Basic priniciples.

So given that and given the size of the game, multiball is confirmed unless you want to suggest an incredibly strong slew of town power.

[Espeonage]

ALso I just realised I'm starting to hit overtired, this might be time to rumble.

[Espeonage]

Shit RC did flip town doctor. It is not impossible that he had a succesful save

Still I am not touching Titus till I get confirmation on this

I don't compute. Because Titus is incredibly scummy for reasons that have nothing at all to do with the recent Dave post.

Not to mention it's shitty anyway and in no way a slip even if multiball.

The fact you contemplate jumping ship before thinking is interesting though.

[Espeonage]

You know people always ditch the wait until you have a reason to get back in to the game strat. But it seems to always work better than reading.

[Espeonage]

okay

So basically you are concluding that the only reason the game started when it did is because a scum confirmed and that's all that was holding things up?

Yes, that is certain. Go look at the start of the game.

And from this you posit multi-ball even though we don't actually have evidence of that?

Yes, run the math.

That might be the weakest rationalization to lynch someone who hasn't said anything overtly scummy in ... ever?

That isn't a rationale for lynching. I even said why that line was bogus.

But here's the dealio. I'll 1v1 Elyse. I'm even willing to go first.

VOTE: Elyse

Can someone please read my posts? Like please. With actual reading?

[Espeonage]

Titus is impossible to read.

This is blatantly false. Titus is among the easier people to read. The only issue is that occasionally she is town when you read her as scum. But she is very easy to townread. To the point where scumreading her at any point should send alarm bells in everyone's head.

[Espeonage]

Wanna just lynch pistachi0n, titus and elyse?

Hello, one of those things is confirmed town.

[Espeonage]

@Nero: Not on my radar at the moment. I'll get to her when it's important.

@AboveTitus: That is based on the completely false premise that there is only one scumteam which I have already proven as false. Scum can 100% scumhunt this game, because they need to. #multiball

[Espeonage]

I am doing plenty of scumhunting thank you. I like how you couldn't back up one statement so you moved on to try something else.

However the fact that you defended yourself in the face of FALSE PREMISE is very worrying.

[Espeonage]

I am doing plenty of scumhunting thank you. I like how you couldn't back up one statement so you moved on to try something else.

I had a busy last couple weeks. Can you quote yourself scum hunting in thread please?

Ok what the actual fuck is this?

Hey Nero, can you please not answer, I want to see what happens.

[Espeonage]

On the point of shitty questions.

Nero: Why you ask about Shiro in particular? Because it seems pretty shitty when you know I've got nothing. Like I could say how validating a vanity wagon on a not very talked about person is an issue, especially when there are other people that need to be talked about. But that is all gleaned from one post on this page.

[Espeonage]

@Nero: Not on my radar at the moment. I'll get to her when it's important.

@AboveTitus: That is based on the completely false premise that there is only one scumteam which I have already proven as false. Scum can 100% scumhunt this game, because they need to. #multiball

You have speculated that the game began when it did because the first scum confirmed. What makes you so certain of that? It could simply be that scum confirmed earlier and the necessary # of people confirmed, starting the game. For all we know, it could have started when it did because that's when our mod checked in.

What you have is a theory without any reason to believe (or disbelieve) it; however, you are acting as if you know for certain that this is multiball. There aren't a lot of ways to be as certain as you are acting, and nearly all of them involve positing you as part of a small scum team.

HELLO. MY NAME IS ESPE AND UNLIKE YOU I HAVE READ THE GAME. FUCKING HILARIOUS LEVELS OF IRONY. Fucking hell. Go read page one.

[Espeonage]

I am doing plenty of scumhunting thank you. I like how you couldn't back up one statement so you moved on to try something else.

I had a busy last couple weeks. Can you quote yourself scum hunting in thread please?

Ok what the actual fuck is this?

Hey Nero, can you please not answer, I want to see what happens.

Nero has already lied since he replaced in. He claims to be scum hunting ... I don't recall seeing him actually push anyone or even try to get someone talking. On the off chance I missed something, I asked him to quote himself so I could go read in context what he thinks is scumhunting.

Also ... you do realize it's rude to interrupt one player directly questioning another right?

Hello again friend. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Also, thanks for the notice, but I figured the rule didn't apply when the asker was asking shit that is so dumb it needs to be dealt with. Which constitutes scumhunting by the way, as it seems you have no idea how wide a term scumhunting is.

[Espeonage]

I don't have enough sarcasm left for this. Someone needs to top me up.

[Espeonage]

Why would I scumread someone for not knowing how to read a person in particular? That's even more dumb than asking the question.

"Hi, I'm not the best at this game bt I'll get there."
"OMG YOU SCUM BC SHITTY"

I'm kinda offended.

[Espeonage]

@Espy, how is this confirmed multiball?

Why are you deflecting?

OMFG. IT IS MULTIBALL BECAUSE CONFIRMATION AND MATHS AND THE BASICS OF MODDING> BEEN OVER THIS A FEW TIMES> PLEASE READ> PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE WITH A NOOSE ON TOP.

And I'm not deflecting at all???? If anything I am jumping in the way of the metaphorical projectiles.

[Espeonage]

I really should say thank you. You finally put to rest the question of if you are actually reading my posts.

7 pages is probs not in rvs zone.

btw just went and had a look bc this went from role pms to gamestart before I was online. And I am p sure there are at least 6 anti town slots, as per the unwritten modding rule that you never start a game unless there is at least one scum confirmed. And a third of the game being scum is p damn rough.

In case the last bit of that is hard to understand because apparently people can't read.

There are too many scum for a single scum team. This game is 100% multiball.

Which I might add is why my issues with Titus are so important. Multiball means that scumhunting is legit. From everyone. Which means that motives in actions is the way to catch scum. Can y'all stop being shits look at player mentalities please. Thanks.

So?

People picking same target. The death makes sense from any scum group tbh. Also there can be protections. Another golden rule of set up creation is make sure the game doesn't end too quickly. There must always be ways to curb kills in multiball. That's one of the things common in all the setup theory articles and is just common sense.

Look at the facts.

At least 6 scum.

That is the only fact because otherwise the game is farcical due to the ability for the game to be occuring with no scum. Basic priniciples.

So given that and given the size of the game, multiball is confirmed unless you want to suggest an incredibly strong slew of town power.

@Nero: Not on my radar at the moment. I'll get to her when it's important.

@AboveTitus: That is based on the completely false premise that there is only one scumteam which I have already proven as false. Scum can 100% scumhunt this game, because they need to. #multiball

You have speculated that the game began when it did because the first scum confirmed. What makes you so certain of that? It could simply be that scum confirmed earlier and the necessary # of people confirmed, starting the game. For all we know, it could have started when it did because that's when our mod checked in.

What you have is a theory without any reason to believe (or disbelieve) it; however, you are acting as if you know for certain that this is multiball. There aren't a lot of ways to be as certain as you are acting, and nearly all of them involve positing you as part of a small scum team.

HELLO. MY NAME IS ESPE AND UNLIKE YOU I HAVE READ THE GAME. FUCKING HILARIOUS LEVELS OF IRONY. Fucking hell. Go read page one.

[Espeonage]

DRIXX PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD READ. MAYBE YOU CAN BENEFIT FROM TITUS' NOT READING.

[Espeonage]

I'll try and redo my proof for multiball when I have more than a passing minute.

But @above: First off, REALLY? Ok lets get this really fucking straight. A historical statistical oddity is not something to base a vote on. The thread is speficially for silly shit. Which is why it says so in the thread title. You know as well as I do what Gambler's Falacy encompasses, and trying to use that is included in it.

@Everyone else: How are you people ok with Titus right now? Please just tell me in what world Titus is not screaming scum to you?

[Espeonage]

Going to fucking do this proof again.

The game will begin when 13/18 confirm.[/strike]

Ok here is the important bit.

It is a widely accepted rule of modding that it is in poor taste for a game to be allowed to start without any scum in play. This is due to various concerns mostly regarding that scumhunting gets fucked with and quick lynches are assured of not hitting scum. Therefore when deciding at what point to allow the start of the game, mods count scum and pick the amount of scum +1. This ensures there is at least one scum confirmed at game start.

So combining this with the above quote means we have 6 scum. Having a 6 person scumteam in an 18 player game seems incredibly off balance-wise. How is this balanced out? By having them split across a second scum team. Two three man teams is much more balanced. A tad town sided I think but that is easily offset by some scum power. A much more believable setup.

[Espeonage]

Ok so what does this mean for the game?

It means that the usual method of using lack of conviction in reads and other such tells that revolve around the fact that scum have to fake scumhunting are all out the window. Scum need to scumhunt too. It also changes other things. For example Shiro's 2335 just above is negated by asking how two people are meant to influence a wagon off someone in an 18 players game to the point where it stagnates a potential lynch target. What that tells me is that the friction is town sided, and so there is nothing usable from the observation. Pig might be scum, but it's not because of the difficulty the wagon is having getting off the ground.

[Espeonage]

There's a mix of 7 and 8, and there also shouldn't be.

[Espeonage]

I will be incredibly disappointed if a game this large was started without any scum in it. It's negligent modding.

[Espeonage]

To a drastic change in how a lot of the game is scumhunting.

[Espeonage]

Can we do it tomorrow. Assuming multiball, the amount of raw information we get from voting today combined with a missclaim tomorrow has the potential to break the game.

Mostly because if multiball it's probs 5 scum with 6 town. Which means that wagon composition today is going to be nuts retrospectively. Especially if a mafia gets lynched.

If we agree that it's most likely multiball, then no lynch is an option, probs not going to be a popular one, but an option nonetheless. Scum have to start looking for cross kills.

[Espeonage]

This is multiball. Espe was right.

The kobevan thing made it pretty clear

.

?

[Espeonage]

Flavour as reasoning is bleh.

[Espeonage]

I get what you're saying. But mods name mafia often enough. I think I'm coming across hypocritical right now though so I'm going to stop. We're agreed it's multiball.

And Grib is ded bro.

And I am p sure Shinobi is town.

[Espeonage]

Changing reads overnight isn't a scumtell. :/

Why you so hard out the gate?

[Espeonage]

I missed Elyse being off the list too. Am I scum as well for that?

[Espeonage]

Actually looking at your list I wouldn't have Drixx on it.

[Espeonage]

On page 111. Just pointing out that vanilla cop gets vanilla on goons.

[Espeonage]

Also means a scum was off the wagon and likely to vote. You self hammer as scum to protect partners.

[Espeonage]

Heat wouldn't protect scum from a different faction. At this point scum need to be at each other's throats.

[Espeonage]

Well yeah, but that's no great insight.

[Espeonage]

Hi, I have an important night result.

Drixx is town. I am saying he is 100% confirmed.

Y'all gonna ask me to claim and someone had to go kill Shinobi so that's fucking wonderful. I am a JOAT. Neighbourize I used on Shinobi N1. There's a few clues. we both started defending each other out of nowhere because neither of us ended up dead. Shinobi townread me and I didn't get night killed after claiming, thus showing him to also be town. I used my Doctor on Shinobi N2. I roleblocked Frozen N3, the commute claim was sitting iffy but after the two kills I figured I was being paranoid. And lastly Gunsmith on Drixx, where I got the result that Drixx has no gun.

So, what does this mean.

I am p certain that the town players left are Myself, Elyse, Drixx, and Shiro. That makes everyone else mafia. I am k to lynch whichever of them we think is most likely to not be Copenhagen.

[Espeonage]

Are you not?

[Espeonage]

:/

Is Shiro mafia then?

[Espeonage]

Socialist is swingy with the potential for major neg utility so probs not. IC + Cop is a tad weird now I think about it. Generally you put in IC instead of a cop as the equivalence is generally considered to be the same as a cop after night 2. But that's mod wifom. I've had doctors and bodyguards together.

Who is the doc, I think I missed a claim.

[Espeonage]

P sure nos is lying through his teeth here. To claim boat with doc and blocks after me, doc death, Titus flip and the block claims from shiro makes me think that if nos is anything, its scum rn or scum jk.

Vote: Nos

[Espeonage]

To claim joat
Ebwop. Phone posting

[Espeonage]

I thought pig confirmed himself. But I need to check something.

@Mod: Do serial killers have guns for the purposes of gunsmith?

[Espeonage]

Because he confirmed his role on Drixx.

[Espeonage]

Also as of Ploti's post, Drixx is cleared for mafia, not cleared for SK.

Actually nevermind, Pig clears him for SK.

Ok. Between Fire and piss. Lean on Fire from my block on piss. So Piss can't be an SK.

Pedit: Are you reading the thread? Pig claimed yesterday as Backup socialist and Drixx said he got an ability so I am figuring that clears pig.

[Espeonage]

Stop it. You're not lynching me today.

Let's lynch Dave so we can someTimes somewhere useful. Get to her

backup

plan.

@pisskop
Bolded backup this time. I am the backup socialist. Drixx got his present from me.


So it is Nos or Espe?

[Espeonage]

Mod: If a serial killer had no modifiers would they turn up as vanilla?

[Espeonage]

What if Drixx is a vanilla serial killer. SK can get away with no killing and blocking to test for scum or frame townies. Either works out good for him.

[Espeonage]

piss can't be third party killer, I blocked that slot one of the nights with two kills.

[Espeonage]

Fact remains no kill means something happened.

1. Frame via Drixx block. Now this is limited to only a few people who can get away with this. Shiro's claim provides unlikely target of Drixx. Drixx could be framing as an SK. Myself and pig are very very slim here due to danger of being the target despite our claims. Enough that I am discounting us two. Fire as a VT claim means very likely to be blocked which means I don't see Fire framing for chance of being lynched as the block target.
2. Drixx blocked a kill. Piss is some form of anti-town.

Discussion about a roleblocker doesn't really matter because if there is one the fact that it hasn't been claimed means it's antitown anyway. Which means if a kill was blocked by it, there is still whatever faction the roleblocker is from's kill missing which goes back to the scenarios.

So, this leaves us with three real candidates.

Drixx and Shiro if it's a frame attempt. Piss if it's not. Drixx can't be groupscum via my result so it can't be a wider lylo play which would make this make more sense. And even then doesn't make sense because they could kill for win last night.

So Shiro, Drixx and Piss. Occams says Piss. However, if it is Piss who are the scum partners and why did Piss make the kill. This is the bit where I have been mulling on.

Piss, if anti-town, is group scum. That means at least one partner. Or no partner and an SK. Why does Piss make the kill to be blocked? If it's because he's alone, why is there still a kill missing? If there is a partner why did Piss do the kill. After I had already shown exactly how logical a target for roleblock the slot is.

If Shiro is scum it's a ballsy af claim but weirder shit has happened, and it secures an extra day, not entirely sure to what end unless Shiro was feeling burning ears thinking he is a lynch target, which I guess makes sense. A messed up town result on say a third party means curtains as the SK kills them to win without it being suss because everyone expects a cop to die. So that is negative points for Shiro here.

Drixx can't be group scum, so I think Drixx can be left a day even if he is involved.

If Fire pulled the greatest clutch play ever then have an extra day.

Vote: Shiro

[Espeonage]

Shiro. In what world is a team of myself, fire and piss dumb enough to send piss on the kill when by all accounts drixx was/is town reading me after he claims he has a block. It just makes zero sense. That's even iffy for a piss fire scum team.

[Espeonage]

Hi you guys ended the day before I had a chance to post. I checked the thread on my phone then by the time I was at a computer it was night time.

Vote: Pig

Can't be me, can't be IC, must be pig.

Backup of a town role is an interesting foil, but eh, two man scum team works-ish. Still weird.

[Espeonage]

Also Drixx kill over you Elyse I can see making sense because I confirmed Drixx as town. potentially pushes Drixx's deciding vote closer towards seeing me as town over pig in a way not present for you. The fact that you even made it through other days is messed up tho.

Anyway gonna shut up, you got a choice to make, go make it.

Fair sure you haven't given indication for who you want to lynch, advice is to always go gut. Not what I do because I'm shitty at the game and have a special thing I do in lylo, but I hear gut is good for not overthinking.

[Espeonage]

What chooses which roleblocker takes precedence in NAR?

[Espeonage]

This game was impossible for my faction to win unless town royally fucked up.

We did everything pretty much perfect in our day play and still needed to have at least good night action choices to een make it to end game on top of everything.

And we were in a position where even in 2-5 after living for so long, in a position where it was still almost impossible for us to win. I think however that I made my life a lot more difficult by truthfully saying I had cleared Drixx. It meant that I got town cred at a time in the game where I needed it, but it also meant that for us to win we needed to make 5 man lylo which we narrowly missed out on.

But yeah, this game was stupidly unbalanced. I hae no issues with such a small team, I have issues with the amount of ways that town had to clear people so that process of elimination from power roles overrided any and all great scum day play.

[Espeonage]

I don't want to take away from your win though. Well done Elyse and co. I threw everything I could at you and you prevailed, well played.

[Espeonage]

multi-ball always feels inherently unfair to the scum teams. It has the most potential to go off the rails one way or the other too. Super hard to balance. The fact that it came down to 3 person LYLO and you had a shot probably means it was more well balanced than you are giving it credit for. I'm sure it felt hard though. I wish I could let you feel what SMITE felt like when I replaced in and then after you and Otolia both died and I was alone. I totally get feeling like the task is insurmountable.

I was legitimately telling you well played though ... you played very top notch and one different choice (kill Elyse and leave me alive) may have won you the game. I honestly can't say whether I would have voted for you or Pig.

In that night so many ideas went through my head everyone was a potential night kill. My thought process was that in terms of cross questioning, my ability to maintain my lies when all three are arguing wouldn't outweigh the chance one of you would mess up. In the end I was wrong on that though, credit to Elyse.

If I killed Elyse, everyone would be a target, I would have to take a weird stance and probably try to kill Pig. Slightly easier sell, much longer day phase.
If I killed pig, I would have to pin you as a traitor and I had asked so many questions about what would turn up vanilla and what would turn up gun-less that there was so much risk of it being two confirmed town. This was the worst option.
So I killed you. I figured that the wifom of leaing Elyse alive might weigh well if pig got desperate and Elyse figured she was kept alive because the obvious scum in myself was wrong. And I feel like this would have worked had Elyse not been as smart as she was.

[Espeonage]

Oh yeah, can't be understated how well Frozen played before she replaced out, she was great. And thanks Piss for replacing in. It was great. Sorry I couldn't pull it home.

Frozen made my life so much easier.

[Espeonage]

You allowed to say what happened?

[Espeonage]

Thinking back. Had I lied more I probably would have won. Told too much truth.

And on the topic of rows on ms. Probably best not to air them. There are people I don't play with and people who don't play with me on principle and most of the time it isn't known to the blacklisted player. It means people don't get offended and allows for coexistence.

[Espeonage]

wifom

[Espeonage]

Actually it does make it harder for scum because there is less chance of false positives in town and town can focus on multiball specific scumtells as well as Night spec.