Mini 485: Formula One (Game Over)

[pulsewidth]

VROOM! VROOM! NITROBOOST!!!!

Vote: SPAG

for beating me off the line.

[pulsewidth]

Unvote, Vote: Sir Wario

for not knowing what Paradox's avatar is. C'mon man, everyone knows what that is!

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thats because he's dead silent

BADUMBUMCHING! Awful, just awful

And Paradox's avatar is a Vietnamese Buddhist monk burning himself in protest. Rage Against the Machine used it as a cover for their first album.

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FoS: Spag

I don't like the way you responded under the slightest pressure.

unvote, Vote: deadscilent

Get with the posting already!

[pulsewidth]

Playtime is ovah!

unvote: deadscilent

SPAG's reactions are somewhat scummy, but I'm not gonna put him at -2 already just for that.

deadscilent, what's with the FOS and vote in the same post?

[pulsewidth]

That is a bunch of nonsense, madam. Scummy nonsense.

Vote: deadscilent

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EBWOP means Edit by way of post.

And the lurking is a non-tell, man. The game just started today. Noone waits for an opportunity to post in the RANDOM VOTING STAGE.

[pulsewidth]

Those are all open games, so it's not like he can comment on his actions there. Being active is not a scumtell. The fact that you would like to see him at -1 IS a scumtell.

Unvote, Vote: discordian algorithm

[pulsewidth]

If you can't find scum within the confines of the current game, then maybe you need to revise your strategy. I find all of this alt/metagaming talk to be conveniently distracting.

[pulsewidth]

This is the first game I've been in that someone was so insistent on seeing another player's previous games. Seems the only one who's so concerned about it is you. Maybe it's because most of us don't really care? Like I said, it's not that difficult to find scum based on how they are playing in the game without looking at other games they've played in. Is SPAG acting scummy? Yeah, I think so; having a hard time telling whether he's newbscum or just newb. But I find your obsession with alt-claiming and metagame linking to be even scummier.

IH doesn't seem to have a problem with finding statements made by SPAG *in this game* and using that to make points against him. I've made a case against you using the same technique. I mean, this is basic mafia strategy 101 we're talking about here. Why are you insistent with leaning on previously played games as a crutch? Either you have a case against someone or you don't. If you can't back it up with evidence that is right in front of you but still insist someone is scum anyways, that makes you scummy in my eyes.

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DA, the reason a wagon formed on you is because of your own statements. What do you think is gonna happen when you come right out and say you want someone at lynch -1? That's automatically going to look scummier than mostly anything else someone has said in only 3 or 4 pages. When you added in the reference to ongoing games, that was what spurred me to put a vote on you.

You followed up all of this with repeated insistence on references to outside games, which I maintain is a crutch and a bad way to scumhunt. It looked like a distraction to me. I first had a read on you as being very eager newbscum. Now with a re-read (and taking into account of the alt-reveal), you just come off as an overly aggressive townie who is seeing scum everywhere and using bad methods of finding them. Yes, bad methods. I still maintain that relying on info outside of the game is not a good way to put a scum argument on someone. But if you think otherwise, good luck to ya.

As far as the scumbuddy accusation, I will always point out when someone is trying to bus somebody and using, IMO, crap methods to do it. If you are going to convince the town that someone is scum, you're going to have to do better.

Unvote: discordian algorithm

FoS: discordian algorithm

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EBWOP: Geez, DA. Maybe your methods work better than I thought. 3 posts in a row all with an unvote on you?! Note to self: Be really intimidating and make threats of lynchings; result - people will jump off your wagon very quickly!

[pulsewidth]

........


Those were all votes in the random voting stage. Are you freaking serious? I've seen enough. Someone lynch this guy already.

Vote: SPAG

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No, lurking is what ojpower and porter have been doing. Speaking of which, JDodge, have prods been sent out to those two?

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ojpower coming out of lurking and bringing the hammer with nary a word is very telling.

I'll stop talking now. Twilight and all that.

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Ah, good catch DA.

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Agreed. It seems ojpower has done this recently in several of his games i.e. popping in, voting with no explanation, and then nothing. There's a possibility that he's just skimming his games and playing very badly. If he's going to be this inactive though, he should probably be replaced instead of being lynched.

[pulsewidth]

True, but like you said, we shouldn't rush to another lynch.

[pulsewidth]

Perhaps Zindaras, but the guy was being scummy as hell. When he went after Kaleidoscope based on craplogic, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's unfortunate that he turned out to be town, but he was playing town pretty badly, and it would have been easier for scum to hide with him around.

Polter, care to elaborate on those actions?

IH, you misunderstood me, but I might not have explained it very well. My point was that ojpower has recently been going around and doing what he did here: placing votes with no reasoning and then leaving. He isn't being very active in his games. If he doesn't come in here soon and explain himself, then I think he should be replaced instead of lynching him.

Having said that, I realize I forgot to FoS oj, so

FoS: ojpower

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Pulsewidth, by justifying Ojpower by using other games, aren't you going against what you were using to attack discordian algorithm earlier. Seems like a complete 180.

I am not justifying ojpower (what does that even mean?). His hammer coupled with his non-explanation is pretty bad. All I am saying is that I agree with Zindaras that we shouldn't rush into another lynch, especially when we don't even know if ojpower is really participating or not. If and when ojpower finally shows up and doesn't give a good explanation, then I'm definitely voting him. The difference between DA's use of metagaming and mine is that DA was using metagaming as her sole source for attacking SPAG. I don't think having metagame evidence as your only evidence to be very good. That's why I went after her on that. I, on the other hand, am using metagaming to say "Hey guys, ojpower has been doing in this in his other games recently. That doesn't excuse his actions, but if he isn't paying attention to his games, then maybe we need to get him replaced instead of potentially lynching a bad townie."

IH, I can see where you are coming from. I understand why I am under suspicion for putting SPAG at -1 and for my comments about the lynch, however I stand by my actions. There were also several people (yourself included) who hopped onto this wagon pretty early and stayed on even when SPAG was at -2. I think my vote was justified, but I'm not so sure about some of the others. I'm going to have to do a re-read on this.

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One, it's nice how you don't bother reading up on SPAG's side of the argument, instead claiming that a statement was in random voting stage, which obvoiusly makes it a random vote. Who the hell knows what is a random vote or not? I could make a random vote right now if I wanted to, just roll a die and stick with it. Or, I could make a deadset vote in the random stage, just based on one post from someone else.

I voted SPAG for many reasons, the business with his Kaleidoscope accusations being the last straw. He uses a statement that was obviously a joke as a means of building a case against Kaleidoscope. That is not a valid argument. The fact that you are using this to promote a case against me is ludicrous.

Two, your main reason for going against DA is all due to alts and other games. Get over yourself. If that's why you're going to be aggressive to another player, then you should really consider a different route.

False. I criticized DA for using metagaming as a sole means for attacking someone. Also, "get over yourself": Statements like this do not enhance or help your arguments.

I believe DA to be innocent, though the fact that blatantly denying having an alt on the first page WAS a little rude.

Why are you so sure that DA is innocent?

Why are you all FoSing on DA? Because she was busy trying to figure out how many games SPAG has played. She said she was dead set on getting SPAG to -1, and he didn't even bother giving her any answers.

Uh, people are FoS'ing DA because of her role name clues. Why are you so concerned that DA has two FoS's on her and NO votes?

Guess what? You all brought SPAG to -1. In fact, you all LYNCHED him. Well, now that DA has gotten what she wanted and then some, you have all accomplished the whim of what was called an "artifical reasoning."

Placing blame on everyone and absolving DA of her role in the lynch. Why are you protecting her?

I'm not really sure why you would all suspect DA of being scum when 6 other people joined in the grand lynching of her target. It was YOUR ACTIONS, not hers, that killed SPAG. Great to know, eh?

If people suspected DA of being scum, she would have several votes on her by now. The two people who FoS'ed her mentioned NOTHING about her role in the SPAG lynch. You are really overreacting over nothing. I believe this all adds up to you being newbscum who is trying way too hard to protect a scumbuddy.

Vote: Polter

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Vote counts reset at the start of a new day. As of right now, DA has no votes on her. There has been no accusations pointed at her for role in the SPAG lynch since Day 2 started. So why did you feel the need to come out and defend her on those points, when noone was attacking her on those points?

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Nice to know that Day One doesn't exist to you.

Nice way to avoid answering my question. Again:

So why did you feel the need to come out and defend her on those points, when noone was attacking her on those points?

I could understand if Day 2 started and people came out attacking DA over her "put SPAG at lynch -1" comments, but NO ONE DID. You are preemptively defending DA over an issue that hasn't even been brought up yet. Not only are you obviously covering for a scumbuddy, you're not even doing a very good job of it

unvote vote:pulsewidth Is Polter buddying up to me? Possibly, but my magic 8-ball says "NOT LIKELY"

Aaaand, here comes DA backing up Polter. It's really obvious at this point.

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No, actually I believe that covers it. Wake the fuck up, and read it again. There are 6 pages of Day One. That's right, not Two that you should be looking at, but One.

I read it. You didn't answer my question. Noone is attacking DA over her SPAG lynch comments. Allow me to explain this as you don't seem to be getting the picture. Here are the two posts that have FoS'es RIGHT NOW on DA.

By claiming the first two letters, you actually already claimed your rolename, DA. Everyone with a bit of knowledge can figure that out.

And to be honest, having no leads to do so, warrants a FoS: discordian algorithm

Dissy is clearly King Rabies, partnered to Feminine Maple-Leafs.

This was not a smart move. You might as well have claimed your entire role name and role.

And, personally, it appears you have claimed Masons. Mason Traitors are more likely to push for a Mason claim than regular Masons, so FoS: discordian algorithm.

They don't list DA's SPAG lynch comment as being a reason for their FoS. Noone was talking about that until YOU brought it up. If people were looking to go after DA today based on her SPAG lynch comment, then they would have said so.

If I'm not doing a good job of it, then maybe that means she's not my scumbuddy. Hmm, maybe there's the slight offchance that MAYBE we both have Mason roles, or MAYBE I have a Cop role. But you wouldn't know until I was dead, would you?

The fact that you are doing a bad job of defending DA has no relevance on whether you are her scumbuddy or not. As for your Mason/Cop statement, why even bring that up, unless it's just a poor attempt at rolefishing?

BTW, you still haven't answered my question as to why you think DA is innocent. So please provide us all with some reasons.

And as for lynch -1, she made the comments, but you made the commitment. You didn't really care for SPAG at that point, so you decided that sending him to the chopping block would be easy.

I have repeatedly stated my reasons for voting SPAG. Perhaps you should go back and re-read them.

Anyone else have any comments on this discussion? I'm a little disappointed to see that activity has died down a bit.

Mod

, what's the status on ojpower? He hasn't posted since the 9th.

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Agreed. ojpower, that was a perfectly legitimate question to ask you. If you had read the thread, you should've known it was coming. Everyone was wondering what was up with that hammer vote, especially since you made it at the time with no reasoning at all.

FoS

on discordian algorithm for being too lynch-happy, and vote-hopping without good explanations.

My reads so far:

Likely scum: Polter, DA - both have shown lots of scummy behavior; Polter for his defense of DA and his poor reasons for voting me / DA for reasons stated in my FoS.

Neutral: deadscilent, IH, Kaleidoscope - haven't really seen enough content from them to get a read.

Likely town: Zindaras, SirWario - Both have made good arguments and provided good reasons for their votes.

[pulsewidth]

Weaseled out of what? Once you place the hammer, he's done. There's nothing to weasel out of any longer. All you had to was provide an explanation for your hammer vote, but you didn't. Generally, not giving reasons for placing a vote is considered scummy, ESPECIALLY when its a hammer vote.

EBWOP: Forgot to include ojpower in my scum readings above - I put him in the "leaning toward scum" category. Reasons: SPAG hammer with no explanation, and now his reason for his lack of explanation doesn't jive.

FoS: ojpower

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Mod, I currently have a vote on Polter.

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Still here. Sorry for the inactivity guys.

again, if ojpower is scum than Polter will be the first on my list.

Yeah, I'm really not seeing the logic here.

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1. Pulse FoS's someone for wanting an early lynch, and then puts Spag at minus one. Major FOS:Pulsewidth

2. FoS:Pulsewidth for making excuses for OJ, and then kind of throwing Zindie off track (post 133, 135)

3. Major FoS:Pulsewidth for the backtrack and "Forgetting" to fos (post 139)

1. First, I didn't FoS DA, I voted her. Why? Because she came out saying she wanted SPAG at -1 to lynch and her REASONS were all based on active games SPAG couldn't even comment on. That to me was scummy. Later on I did put SPAG at -1, and that was due to SPAG attacking people with craplogic and not defending himself well at all. Anyone who uses illogical or poorly thought-out attacks as a reason to vote for someone WILL go on my scumlist and possibly get a vote put on them. That is how I play.

2. I am not "making excuses" for oj. I have seen games where scum want to lynch an inactive player rather than get a replacement. I was trying to avoid that.

3. Uh, care to point out the backtrack? If I voted him, that would be backtracking.

As SirWario pointed out, you FoS'ed a dead guy. I wonder how much attention you are really giving this game. I highly suggest you go look back at the exchanges between me, Polter, and DA and see if you can figure out why there is a wagon on Polter. It's pretty obvious.

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Bolded text are my responses.

First, I didn't FoS DA, I voted her. Why? Because she came out saying she wanted SPAG at -1 to lynch and her REASONS were all based on active games SPAG couldn't even comment on. That to me was scummy. Later on I did put SPAG at -1, and that was due to SPAG attacking people with craplogic and not defending himself well at all. Anyone who uses illogical or poorly thought-out attacks as a reason to vote for someone WILL go on my scumlist and possibly get a vote put on them. That is how I play.

What gets me is it was on the same exact page.

What was on the same page? I voted DA on page 3. Oh, wait. I see what you're talking about. Page 5. What about it? I explained my reason for my unvote on DA and knocked her down to an FoS. What is your point here?

I am not "making excuses" for oj. I have seen games where scum want to lynch an inactive player rather than get a replacement. I was trying to avoid that.

Yet you didn't even give OJ a chance to respond.

Again, I don't understand what you are getting at here. ojpower was incredibly inactive (didn't post anything between the 9th and 19th). People usually get replaced for being inactive, but sometimes scum will try to push for a lynch on an inactive player because it's easy. I was just trying to prevent that from happening.

IH, you misunderstood me, but I might not have explained it very well. My point was that ojpower has recently been going around and doing what he did here: placing votes with no reasoning and then leaving. He isn't being very active in his games. If he doesn't come in here soon and explain himself, then I think he should be replaced instead of lynching him.

Having said that, I realize I forgot to FoS oj, so FoS: ojpower

Instead of just flatout replacing him, now you say he should explain himself.

Then you FoSed him, which you had "forgotten" to do.

I never said we should flatout replace him. Here is what I said:

If he's going to be this inactive though, he should probably be replaced instead of being lynched.

In other words, if he continues to be inactive (i.e. not post an explanation, content, SOMETHING) then he should be replaced. That is PAR FOR THE COURSE in Mafiascum - inactive players get replaced.

If you go inactive, you will be replaced.

As for my FoS on ojpower that I forgot to add, dude, I posted it 40 minutes after my last post. I have several other games that I play in. Believe it or not, things sometime slip my mind. I noticed my mistake and corrected it.

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*tap tap* Is this thing on?

Any thoughts Roach?

[pulsewidth]

I'm going to have to agree somewhat with Zindaras. While I do think Polter is scummy, there is the possibility that he is townie playing very badly. I don't like the last two votes on him for the following reasons:

I'd rather see DeathSauce get lynched (even though it was through no actions of his own), but I'd rather have a Polter lynch over no lynch at all.

We would still have a lynch in the event of a tie, but I will concede that perhaps CO wasn't aware of this.

DeathSauce/ojpower on the other hand:

I am firm with my vote on Discodancer Algoreism.

Whoa, I must have missed that we are under a deadline!

unvote, vote:Polter

Horrible reason to jump on the Polter bandwagon. It's the way he went from being "firm" with his vote on DA and then as soon as CO puts a majority on Polter with his vote, he suddenly switches his vote. I think DS is going for another easy lynch here, much like his predecessor.

unvote, Vote: DeathSauce

Also,

FoS

Roach for subbing in and then throwing idiotic votes around and not contributing.

[pulsewidth]

Polter and I had the same number of votes, so in an effort to save my own skin before the deadline I switched my vote to him.

Actually, CO had unvoted you and put his vote on Polter about 2 hours before you switched your vote. Polter already had more votes than you when you switched your vote.

[pulsewidth]

Actually Zindaras,

In case of a tie the first person to reach that number of votes is lynched.

So, even though there is a tie, Polter will still get lynched at the deadline.

[pulsewidth]

I *was* quoting the deadline rules that JDodge posted last page. I will post them again:

Whomever has a majority, as long as it is more than half of the number of votes needed to lynch (currently 4).

In case of a tie the first person to reach that number of votes is lynched.

Note the bolded. If there is a tie, which there is right now, then the first person to reach that number votes (Polter) will be lynched. At least, that's how it reads to me. Or is it that the tie would have to be at 4 votes? Mod, can you please clarify?

[pulsewidth]

I'm not going to get NK'd by the scum because they aren't (are?) smart enough to NK me tonight.

So, you know for a fact that you won't be NK'ed? [sarcasm]That's not scummy at ALL![/sarcasm] Seriously, by making that statement you are either inviting the scum to NK you, or you are making yourself the prime target the next day if your prediction holds true because only scum know for sure that they won't be NK'ed.

[pulsewidth]

Picking up the prod. First quick glance at the last several pages and Roach is pinging on my scumdar. He refuses to give analysis at first. When pressured, he finally gives us something, except his list is best summed up by: "If you voted or pressured me, you're probably scum! If you haven't pressured/voted me, I don't have an opinion on you."

FoS: Roach

Xdaamno's analysis in post 295 is really weak. Didn't provide us with any substantial tells or reads. Find it surprising that he didn't make any mention of DA's "SPAG is a player I would like to see at -1 to lynch" comment, which occurred within the first 5 pages. I guess I just find it odd that his first analysis only covers minor scumtells when there were some bigger scumtells going on early in the game.

Roach and pulsewidth are also on my scumdar due to ill-timed posting or arguments I disagree (Rather general, I know, but they're both high on my list). Since it's rather hard for a replacement to grasp the timing and priority of arguments if you aren't actually in them, IMO, is there anything I need to respond it?

Yes, please provide us with some examples of my "ill-timed posting or arguments you disagree with."

That was all I felt like sharing. I'll connect a couple of dots for you tomorrow. I'm sure you will make it as well

Would love to see a response to this.

[pulsewidth]

pulsewidth, I'd like you to do a post on exactly why, in detail, you felt my analysis was incomplete. If you put the effort in, so will I in doing your required pbpa thing.

[/phoenixwright]OBJECTION![/phoenixwright]

It was incomplete because you left out significant events, one of which I highlighted above. You speak of my ill-timed arguments yet you fail to clarify, but you ask us if there is anything you need to respond to about that. When I asked you to clarify, you put conditions on your willingness to clarify. Ridiculous. If you are going to accuse me of something, then you need to give examples to back up your claims. I gave an example of why your analysis was incomplete. You have not done so in return to back up your accusations against me.

[pulsewidth]

Sorry for the inactivity guys. Just got back from vacation and forgot to notify you all. Well, either we suck at scumhunting or the scum are hiding really well in this game or a combination of both. It certainly doesn't help that we've had so many replacements, making it difficult to get a read on people.

At this point, I'm just gonna go with my gut and right now, my gut tells me there's something up with SirWario and Kaleidoscope. Just the way they wagoned DA. My feeling is that scum tend to vote and then disappear around a deadline, hoping the town will mislynch, which is basically what happened. Shanba/Xdaamno/Polter is also pinging on my scumdar mainly due to Polter's previous actions and because of Xdaamno's weird voting and reasoning prior to the DA lynch; also, post 367 really rubs me the wrong way.

When a game slows down so much like this one, it seems to me that scum would be more likely to be active/voting in order to hurry up and win. Looking at the remaining players, that pretty much comes down to the three I've listed above.

FoS: Kaleidoscope

FoS: SirWario

FoS: Shanba

[pulsewidth]

I'm not liking pulsewidth last post.

Well, that's a shocker.

[pulsewidth]

...Uh, I was being sarcastic with the shocker comment. Of course you didn't like my last post considering I FoS'ed you. And pointing three fingers is not keeping all my options open; if I were doing that, I would be pointing 5 fingers. I'm simply giving my gut feelings on who the scum is, and out of the 6 that are left, I listed the ones that were giving me badwrong feelings. Do you have any comments on my last post besides the fact that you didn't like it? Or Shanba's post; he FoS'ed you also. I mean, I find it a little odd that you quoted Shanba's post in which he FoS'ed you, and your response is... that you don't like *my* previous post. What? Why quote Shanba's post if you're not gonna respond to it?

[pulsewidth]

Sure, let's do it. What's "popcorn" style?

[pulsewidth]

I vote for picking.

[pulsewidth]

I vote for Kaleidoscope.

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I'm Nick Heidfeld,

Townie

. My teammate was Robert Kubica.

I choose Scope to go next.

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Zindy, perhaps you could explain why Oman's theory is bupkus? I am a little confused here. If only vanilla townies received their teammate's name in their role PM, then theoretically you would have received one also. What IS your current theory regarding the teammates?

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Oman, before the massclaim you stated that SW and KScope were scummiest. Are you voting Zindy based solely off this theory of yours or are there other reasons?

[pulsewidth]

Well a major reason for my vote on Pulse is my first roleblock choice. There was only one kill with SK and scum. I blocked Pulse and only one kill turns up. The most plausible option was that I blocked the scum and IH killed Paradox.

Or, you know, you could be lying about your roleblocker status. Even if by some chance you are a roleblocker, I fail to see what makes you so sure that I'm scum as you've offered very little evidence to substantiate your vote. In fact, I notice that you never really went after me until after post 376 in which I FoS'ed both you and KScope. Really, until I see some actual sensible reasons for you voting me, I'm just going to assume your vote is OMGUS, which is really poor voting at this point in the game.

I don't like KScope's input this late in the game. He's offered very little content the past several days when there is lots of interesting discussion going on.

[pulsewidth]

I know I'm not lying. I gave my reasons. It has to do with my night one block and only one kill. Its a perfectly plausible case on you.

Assuming you've told the truth about your role or your blocks (I still haven't ruled out the possibility that you are mafia-aligned roleblocker), then there is one explanation you haven't considered. KScope claimed to be a bulletproof townie. Now, I'm not too sure what that protects him from, but it's possible it protected him from a N1 SK kill. Other than that, the only reasonable explanation that I can see is that you actually blocked IH the first night, and that you are a mafia-aligned roleblocker.

With that being said, I think my vote is set to stone for today.

Vote: Pulsewidth

Gotta love votes with no explanation.

Looking back over the roles, I really don't see how the Mod would give the town so many power roles if there really is only two mafia. I don't think we can honestly expect the town to have a cop, a doc, a bulletproof townie, AND a roleblocker. That's just ridiculously unbalanced. Which leads me to believe that SW, KScope or Shanba are one/both of the remaining scum. Looking at the Shanba/SW roleblock explanations, I'm thinking SW is a roleblocker as he claims, just not on the town's side.

Vote: SirWario

[pulsewidth]

I can't believe we didn't even get at least one of the scum. Wow. Should've listened to Shanba and went after KScope, but I couldn't believe that the town would have two roleblockers, hence why I went after SW.

Oman, I don't understand your hammer vote. How did you come to the conclusion that the teammates weren't in the game? Just so you know, I was telling the truth; my role PM stated that Robert Kubica was, in fact, my teammate.

[pulsewidth]

EBWOP: Nevertheless, congrats to the scum for playing a good game.