SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[ooba]

Well, damn. So much for my theory. (Outside godfather in which case Magua would be the luckiest son of a bitch ever.)
If I had gotten the result I was

hoping

for, we'd have dead scum in an instant, but alas, Magua is town.

I copped Magua last night and he is Order-aligned, thus, conftown. He was the read I was keeping close to my chest as a scumread, but that was clearly wrong.

Such a fucking waste.

[vezokpiraka]

Does the opposite happen if he flips scum?

I'm down. I'll sheep you if tso flips scum.

[ZeL1nK]

Grand.

[mastin2]

Right. So the mod answered my question. I will, in fact, leave bees on someone I target with my cop, in spite of my cop removing the bees on them. (The cop is my ultimate.) However, the bees will not spread to the target (if any) of my target. In other words, my target won't get the passive track for that night, but will continue to have it even after being copped, for future nights.

If you would've copped TSO it would've made me feel better. TSO is most probably town, but there is still the little paranoia that thinks he might be scum.

Well, if he's not lynched today, then that'd be a viable option, especially since I don't really have many ideas.

I mean, one of my ideas was Anti, but he's apparently a psychic and told me

not

to, soyeah.

Why did you play your cards close to your chest if you are unkillable?

Multiple reasons. As a start, I told FT yesterday, while I cannot be killed, if I am "killed", then I lose the roleblocking and redirection immunity. Then there's the fact that while my night action cannot be blocked, my day action (the bees themselves) in theory could be. Furthermore, while the scum can't interfere with ME, that doesn't mean it's impossible for them to have a tailor/framer on their team and my ability once outted is much easier to counter. And on that note, I wasn't happy about the prospect of claiming in the first place--I agreed to claim because I thought it necessary to protect my buddies and due to the above there wouldn't be much of a risk in doing so, but all the same, it's a fact that the longer I kept my mouth shut, the more likely it would be that we'd achieve our ideal result.

Regrettably, we have not. Which brings me to the final reason, that being, ~reasons~ relating to why a scum result would've been awesome.
Like I said, I've revealed most of the cards, but I'm still holding onto a couple, because if I can get a guilty, then I will impress everyone. My group would become conftown of conftown, instead of just conftown-by-trusting-me. Revealing those cards robs that.

But let me put it to you this way.
You ignore what I say, and then after the truth is revealed, you WILL facepalm and go, "why the heck did I do that?", understand EXACTLY why I've done as I have, and wonder why you were so idiotic in trying to force my hand against my wishes. (Especially when I have an established track record of when not wanting to reveal, not wanting to reveal for

damn good reasons

.)

[ZeL1nK]

You get "order aligned" or "not order aligned"?

I would suggest Snowflake, but that requires pikari not targeting him.

[ZeL1nK]

To be clear, I'd like to clear up whether he's third party, I don't feel all that strongly he's on the Pumbaa scum team (but clearing that up as well couldn't hurt).

[mastin2]

I don't understand why ZZZX is 100% confirmed to you, mastin: all I got was that he targeted you with an ability that was confirmed (what ability?) and that he hasn't used a night action since D1.

An ability that was confirmed.

Plus, other things that have happened in there make ZX town too.
At this point, I'd basically say that I'd let myself be lynched before ZX or Drixx, conditional on my flip confirming them as town. (I

could

out the info, as an alternative, but honestly, I think it's knowledge better taken to the grave than outted, because they are not scum and thus the only people gaining from it would be scum.)
...Obviously not exactly my plan A at this point, mind you. My plan is to get a guilty so that I can deliver swift and decisive death upon the scum, conftowning them in the process.

[vezokpiraka]

To be clear, I'd like to clear up whether he's third party, I don't feel all that strongly he's on the Pumbaa scum team (but clearing that up as well couldn't hurt).

Because that is our problem right now. What if ms is third party. Why would we cop people who might be scum when we can waste it somewhere else.

@mastin: do whatever. You're town.

[Metal Sonic]

You get "order aligned" or "not order aligned"?

I would suggest Snowflake, but that requires pikari not targeting him.

No, and no.

Bad suggestions prevent you to ascending to God level.

[ZeL1nK]

If TSO actually flips scum like I expect he will, group scum isn't doing *that* well at the moment, so yeah, I would actually like to find out whether Snowflake is third party.

I mean, if TSO flips scum, we're looking at what? 2 more group scum? In 17 players? Who cares? I'm more worried about a potential third party coasting by as "confirmed town".

[mastin2]

CHINESE : Metal, Skybird, TWIE
NORSE:

The Mask

, Ace,

AP

MAYAN: Xombie, ZZZX, Mastin
ROMAN: Imperium,

Solar

, Bitmap, TD
HINDU:

Pere

, Farside, FT,

Anamikus

GREEK:

Magua

, Vezo,

Beast

, TSO
EGYPTIAN: ooba,

ceph

, heartless,

andy

^List including Andy's townflip and my order result on Magua.

Honestly, I'm a bit directionless.
I don't think ooba is scum, because his reaction to getting dayvigged before TD changed the target was insanely town; I simply can't see scum faking that. If there's a second scum in there, it'd be Heartless, who is a big giant ? to me and is saying they're off-limits.
I don't particularly think Vezok is scum, because I don't exactly have an explanation for the failed nightkills aside from his protect. That said, I don't particularly think he's town, either, butstill. And there's TSO where there's nothing town and Zelink brings up a lot of good points for why he'd be scum, but I dunno there, either. I just...don't feel like lynching him. I don't know why.
FourTrouble is without a doubt town, thanks to the immensely pro-town dayvig along with solid play and also a decent (albeit wrong) vig shot. Farside, on the other hand, is right now a giant question mark, because I don't know.
I think there should be scum in Roman simply by POE, but heck if I'd know who. I could see it as any of Imperium/Esp/Zelink in theory, even though I lean against Zelink and have held an Esp townread. It could even be two scum, for all I know. But I haven't the slightest idea.
Ace is a fairly meh-read. If I had to assign an alignment, it'd be town, but I don't really have any backing for that.
Metal is town the same way FT is, but I could see either Skybird or TWIE as scum. Something I saw (but for the life of me, can't remember) made me doubt Skybird was scum, and something made me keep TWIE out of the scum pile, yet I don't remember and certainly don't put much stock in it.

So Heartless, {vezok/

TSO

}, farside, {Imperium/Espeonage/Zelink},

theaceofspades

, and {Skybird/

TWIE

}. Neighborhoods-wise, there's where my focus is. But that's basically worthless. :/

[ooba]

What I'm more interested in is that MS's ultimate should have reset by today. But he makes no mention of it.

@Mastin

: Your Magua read\cop. Was it discussed in your neighbourhood about who you're going to target? Did either of the us two suggest\inception the idea?

[ZeL1nK]

What I'm more interested in is that MS's ultimate should have reset by today. But he makes no mention of it.

It's tomorrow.

[ZeL1nK]

If TSO flips scum, we should just have a proper mass claim tomorrow where all the information is on the table. I think it will help with co-ordinating actions more effectively and clear up some things.

[mastin2]

Radical idea I had.

Would people be receptive to a massclaim at this point?

...I know that we'd lose a lot of our edge role-wise. Nobody knows this better than ME, who is holding a couple of cards back. But my logic is basically that, with a couple of exceptions here and there, it seems like everyone in their neighborhood knows the claims of their neighbors

anyway

.

And of course, we'd need to do so strategically. Have people who haven't claimed in their neighborhoods near or at the front, but otherwise proceeding as normal, with people generally considered scummy being earlier than those not scummy. (Yes. I am fully aware this'd put me near the front. But I'm kinda desperate, because short of no-lynching and hoping for a guilty, I'm not getting anywhere right now reads-wise.) No more secrets, no more lies (except from the scum of course), a FULLY open playing field where all our cards are on the table and we can best figure out this mess. We see inside the heads of the neighbors who have claimed their abilities, to know

why

they have been seen as so town, can analyze it, and make our own judgements.

This process would also, by extent, require divulgence of the happenings inside the neighborhoods, as accurately paraphrased as possible.

This is an all-or-nothing idea, though. If we start down this path, we have to lynch/dayvig those who refuse to comply. It'd definitely have a lot of disadvantages, for the price of clarity and potential synchronization as advantages.

Thoughts?

[mastin2]

mastin's grand reveal was not so grand after all.
i am going "meh" rather "wow"
meh

Like I said, if I had gotten a guilty, you would be in awe. :/

[mastin2]

It would have been staggeringly impressive if she hadn't had the night 2 snafu and we had been able to do what we wanted to a guilty result. It would have conftowned our entire neighborhood since the plan called for all three of us to do our part. I don't really want to say any more because it's still possible to make it work and ensure a town win.

^What Drixx said. Not revealing all our cards can still allow for some awesome work to be done. I'd reveal if I thought that it was worth it to do so (a massclaim along with a paraphrase of the neighborhood being one such example, and obviously a guilty being another), but otherwise, the less said the better.

[ZeL1nK]

Does the opposite happen if he flips scum?

I'm down. I'll sheep you if tso flips scum.

Actually, would you agree to this condition as well? If TSO flips scum, you use your ability on me tonight. I will most likely only need it for one night, so after that do whatever.

[mastin2]

You get "order aligned" or "not order aligned"?

It doesn't say what form the results will be in my PM. It just says I'll receive their alignment. Given that I received Order on Magua, this'd mean I'd presumably receive "self-aligned" for third parties, and presumably "Chaos-aligned" for scum.

[mastin2]

@Mastin

: Your Magua read\cop. Was it discussed in your neighbourhood about who you're going to target? Did either of the us two suggest\inception the idea?

It was all me. I've been the one basically spearheading the efforts in the neighborhood. Xombie did a little bit of work, and Drixx basically picked up where Xombie left off, but my Magua read was all-me. Drixx can confirm that I had the desire to cop him since D2, given my rant about changing my action, and that I gave my reasons why in there multiple times (albeit never once in great detail).

Magua was, frankly, playing like scum-trying-to-look-town to me. His stances seemed like they were entirely beneficial for a scum wincon, so damn right I wanted to cop him. I knew from personal experience exactly how good Magua is at looking town when scum, plus I knew that in the off chance that I was wrong about him (welp), having a conftown Magua would be an extreme asset.

[mastin2]

If TSO flips scum, we should just have a proper mass claim tomorrow where all the information is on the table. I think it will help with co-ordinating actions more effectively and clear up some things.

How the bloody hell did you manage to post this immediately before I thought up my idea?

I swear I didn't see your post.

Butyeah, I think my stance on this is fairly clear: though it'd have a few downsides, I

am

willing, provided that EVERYONE claims and that we get neighborhood paraphrases to accompany it.

[ooba]

Some rudimentary wagon analysis:
- Farside\TSO\Vezok would be people I'd highlight just for how the wagons look - at least one of them
- Mastin's D2 'The entire AP lynch was scum driven!' is suspect given how the entire wagon is flipping town.

Spoiler:

Votecount 15

Theaceofspades (8):

AngryPidgeon

, Farside22, vezokpiraka,

Rachmarie

, mastin2, xombie,

PeregrineV

,

Cephrir

FourTrouble

(1):

The Mask

,

iHouse

vezokpiraka (1): Skybird
TiphaineDeath (1):

FourTrouble

AngryPidgeon

(1): theaceofspades

Rachmarie

(1):

Ooba

Cephrir

(1): TiphaineDeath

iHouse

(0):

beastcharizard

Not voting: ZZZX,

Solar Wind

, VysePresident,

Imperium

, TSO,

Ankamius

, Aeronaut

Votecount 20 - Farside appears twice

Theaceofspades (6):

AngryPidgeon

, vezokpiraka, xombie,

Rachmarie

, Farside22, ZZZX

FourTrouble

(3):

The Mask

, Aeronaut
TiphaineDeath (3): Mastin2, Farside22, TSO

beastcharizard

(3): Skybird,

Cephrir

,

Imperium

Cephrir

(2): TiphaineDeath,

FourTrouble

Rachmarie

(2):

Ooba

,

PeregrineV

AngryPidgeon

(1): theaceofspades,

Magua

VysePresident (1):

Solar Wind

Skybird (0):

beastcharizard

Not voting: Heartless,

Ankamius

Votecount 24

AngryPidgeon

(8): theaceofspades,

Magua

,

Imperium

,

Ooba

, Vezokpiraka,

Rachmarie

,

Ankamius

, Heartless, TSO

beastcharizard

(5):

The Mask

,

Solar Wind

,

FourTrouble

, Xombie,

Cephrir

Theaceofspades (2):

AngryPidgeon

, ZZZX

Rachmarie

(2):

PeregrineV

, Farside22

FourTrouble

(2): Aeronaut
TiphaineDeath (1): Mastin2

Cephrir

(1): TiphaineDeath
Skybird (0):

beastcharizard

Not voting: Skybird

Votecount 26

AngryPidgeon

(11): theaceofspades,

Magua

,

Ooba

, Vezokpiraka,

Rachmarie

,

Ankamius

, TSO, Skybird, Heartless,

Imperium

,

The Mask

beastcharizard

(5):

The Mask

,

Solar Wind

,

FourTrouble

, Xombie,

Cephrir

Theaceofspades (2):

AngryPidgeon

, ZZZX

Rachmarie

(2):

PeregrineV

, Farside22

FourTrouble

(2): Aeronaut

Cephrir

(1): TiphaineDeath

Imperium

(1): Mastin2
Skybird (0):

beastcharizard

Votecount 30

Metal Sonic

(7): Heartless,

The Mask

,

Cephrir

,

PeregrineV

, Skybird, TSO, TiphaineDeath
TheAceofspades (3): Xombie,

Ooba

, vezokpiraka
Mastin2 (2): theaceofspades,

FourTrouble

Ankamius

(1):

Magua

Skybird (1): Mastin2

beastcharizard

(1):

Imperium

Heartless (1): Farside22

Imperium

(1):

Solar Wind

Rachmarie

(1): Bitmap

Magua

(0.5):

beastcharizard

Not Voting:

Rachmarie

,

Ankamius

, ZZZX, TheWayItEnds,

Metal Sonic

Votecount 35

TheAceofspades (4): Xombie,

Ooba

, vezokpiraka, Farside22
Skybird (2): Mastin2,

Cephrir

Rachmarie

(2): Bitmap, Heartless

Magua

(2):

beastcharizard

,

The Mask

beastcharizard

(2):

Imperium

, Skybird

Ooba

(1):

Metal Sonic

Metal Sonic

(1): TSO
Mastin2 (1):

FourTrouble

Bitmap (1): TiphaineDeath
TSO (1):

Magua

Not Voting:

Rachmarie

,

Ankamius

, ZZZX, TheWayItEnds,

Solar Wind

, theaceofspades

Votecount 57

Mastin2 (4): TSO, Vezokpiraka,

Magua

, theaceofspades, Skybird
TSO (4):

Imperium

, Zel1nk, Farside22, ZZZX

Ankamius

(4):

Ooba

, Mastin2, Heartless,

Metal Sonic

TWIE (0): TheWayitEnds

Not Voting: Drixx,

Ankamius

,

FourTrouble

9 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-03-31 00:00:00)

Anyway think its a bit premature to mass claim - because the town info gain would not outweigh the scum information gain. We give them a road map to who to kill for a small change in reads based on roles. Maybe tomorrow - just don't feel it's right now.

Support a TSO lynch - not that I have a particular read - just that it culls down the "not sure" list. Also, reinforces town reads on a *lot* of slots if he does flip scum.

Vote: TSO

[ZeL1nK]

It's interesting that the mastin wagon there contains a lot of the unconfirmed players on the D1 AP wagon.

[ooba]

The entire page 225 is interesting reading
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6639314

Also TSO's "Imagine me just hammering" and "I don't think I have ever began to actively anti-wc troll before but if it's ever going to happen, this game's the game." and Cephrir's reaction it to it. I can't judge whether it's manufactured\not (not enough history of playing with TSO)

[T S O]

Sweet, you finally did something worth talking about ZeL1nk!