Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

I may have been hasty with my RG endorsement.

[Just Sheep Us]

The reason why it pinged me in the first place was because in Attack on Titan, you were like Tammy needs to get in here and town it up, towns without structure suck, which made me feel weird when you said it. So the seeming to work with others, is making me go what, BUT at the same time I know it's something you're working on, so.

There's a more nuanced theory point I could get into here about how scum and town generally try to work with people. I'm trying to work on the frustration with people not getting where I'm coming from, and explaining my lines of reasoning in more comprehensible way (which also requires me to understand my own reasoning, which is a bizarre endeavor in and of itself); I'm still not going to yield on reads I don't agree with and be particularly friendly to ideas like "compromise wagons" and "not pushing the thing I want to push for the sake of organizing the town."

[Just Sheep Us]

Vote: Just Sheep Us

*sigh*

I love players that have functional policies on me for no discernible reason!

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

RIP Nati

V/LA - mourning the loss of my hydra partner

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

His last will was that I gladiate DespBro tomorrow

With tears in my eyes, I'll carry out his wishes

[Lord Business]

Why has he quit?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

He hasn't quit. I just haven't heard from him in a week and I suspect he's lying dead in a ditch somewhere. Poor Nati, he was a good person, he deserved more than that.

[Lord Business]

I can't possibly comment on whether I have seen natirasha active or not, but I suspect he isn't actually dead.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

We can only pray

[Lord Business]

We can only pray

This wouldn't happen to be zmuffinman would it?

Cos that post made me laugh a lot.

[The Fox and the Hound]

So I want to talk about each of the players in more detail.

What prompted this decision?

It feels okayish, but not super-mega-strong like I'd kinda be expecting of a scum-him. So I overall reached the conclusion of him being town.

I can point you to a couple of recentish Nacho scumgames that are not super-mega-strong. Where are you getting this from?

ALSO SHE THINKS BREAKFAST WITH STALIN IS A FUNNY NAME
I LIKED SCUMFUCK MORE

So did we!

This seems like an unnecessary posts that adds nothing to the game

I could say the same about this post. Why does it matter?

~~

MastinSSK wagon going strong!!!

Spoiler:

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Im p sure the only reason anyone's paranoid is because mastin

No, I'm paranoid because I was in Antihero too and got fooled pretty fucking badly. I'm not putting any weight behind what mastin's saying -- I'm scumreading her.

[GuyInFreezer]

I'll be back tomorrow

[Kagura]

This game started out as a light game that I was happy about because it was a fun game. This game has been warped into some clusterfuck with moments that have gotten far too personal far too quickly, and that is not the atmosphere that makes it fun to play in at all, and is certainly not conducive to play in as town. I think scumreads on the Mastin slot and scumreads on the Just Sheep Us slot are patently horrible: neither are playing versions anything close to their scumgames. Mastin, your push on the slot in particular is reeking with bias thanks to the "I hope that you are scum because if you're town you're repeating the same mistake over and over again...": you are aware that you

want

him to flip scum very, very badly, and your case on him composes of, what? Him not identifying you as town? As wonderful as it is for people to see you as town, it doesn't always happen. Sometimes people are shit at reading you, as Muffin and I found out in Natirasha on Parole.

Additionally, RBD, if you gladiate JSU tomorrow I will vote you and I will make you die. Gladiators in general for townies are fun as hell but also incredibly anti-town except in extreme, extreme circumstances since if you can't convince town to lynch them you don't deserve to make them dead.

I'm happy with AP eating death. AP has some very poignantly town moments (see: him engaging BRO on good reasons to townread him when BRO is in a minority), but he also has some fairly clear scum motives (see: nitpicky attacks on bork for QT shit seems far more like scum throwing things at a wall to see what sticks as opposed to genuine AP paranoia).

If we want to lynch scum today (and do so easily!), we could kill the person who we're still voting who happens to be diving the fuck under the radar and following his scum meta to a T (which I feel has been pointed out several times by many different people, and yet this never gets acted on because...?). We can additionally lynch orc who is incredibly disengaged, having weird interactions with ffery (paranoia is usually the overarching theme when he's town, and this isn't one of those games where ffery should be a ride or die townread for orc. Xenosaga was one of those games, but this is not.)

[CarbonFiber]

Here's where I am at:

I am not opposed to an AngryPidgeon lynch and he is a much better lynch than most and I'll switch if that's the way we want to go.

What I'd strongly prefer we not do is lynch any of Just Sheep Us or The Fox and The Hound.

They along with Titan, Kagura, Mac, Breakfast, Orc, and Cupcake are strong townreads. RedGyarados and LB are weaker townreads. RG is mostly because FT is concerned about them but the replacement queue involved needing NotScience replacements so I am thinking town. That leaves MastinSSK, Rancid, AP, Clyton, GIF, and PeregrineV.

~ F-16

[AngryPidgeon]

RIP Nati

This wouldn't happen to be zmuffinman would it?

No, I'm paranoid because I was in Antihero too and got fooled pretty fucking badly. I'm not putting any weight behind what mastin's saying -- I'm scumreading her.

Ok, I won a game against you as mafia. I don't see how one game makes a huge impression on you like you are implying, but ok. And Im not even remotely playing like I was in AH mafia, so even more to that end.

I'm happy with AP eating death. AP has some very poignantly town moments (see: him engaging BRO on good reasons to townread him when BRO is in a minority), but he also has some fairly clear scum motives (see: nitpicky attacks on bork for QT shit seems far more like scum throwing things at a wall to see what sticks as opposed to genuine AP paranoia).

This read is pretty lazy. First off, my read on your slot is not purely based on the QT slip and I dropped it once I realized that no one else would care about that or about lynching you at all today. All you and Bork have done is circlejerk about being town and obviously so in a way that feels fake and when I call Bork out on not having actually done anything that looks town, he sidesteps dealing with me to just call my QT case shitty and otherwise avoid interacting with me which is the easy way out of trying to understand my pressure on your slot. So ya, you are still scum and Im waiting for the Day people will actually care. The QT comment is not an end-all case but I do stand by it being a slip and I do find Bork ONLY addressing that with me to be divey.

[AngryPidgeon]

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone. Meta can go fuck itself.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Ok, I won a game against you as mafia.

It wasn't the winning, it was that I was townreading you so hard I burned

multiple watcher shots

on you.

I'd be paranoid even if we'd managed to win.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Bork: I've gotten better at reading fery between our last town game and now

Also exams+modding a mish mash game

Ill be back here soon

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh was that nacho?

Hi nacho you haven't read me correctly in the longest time

[Breakfast With Sandy]

AP,

kagura has done a fair bit more than circlejerk about being obvtown. In fact, the obvtown-bork talk has mostly been from players who are townreading him, not from him. He showed some paranoia about me townreading him as quickly as I did, which is reasonable (because I have "townread" him as scum quite early - see xenologue mini theme for an example). The fact that I usually can call him town early in games where I'm town is far from a guarantee that I'm town in any specific game.

[CupcakePanda]

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone. Meta can go fuck itself.

LOL

How am I scum then?

[MastinSSK]

DV Analysis:

Shockingly enough, I am not so biased as to ignore this. I'm not reading the external links. However, I did read the rest. My conclusion was that I could understand what you were seeing, and that it wasn't impossible, just that your view of it isn't strongly plausible, either.

And tunneling is EXACTLY what mastin is doing this game.

You would

think

so, but no.

Im p sure the only reason anyone's paranoid is because mastin keeps accusing me of generically vague crap like "Im just trying t5o look town" which doesnt actually mean anything and that Im playing to Antihero mafia which is laughable.

That you're strawmanning my points like this again points to you being scum, AP. You said it yourself. You 'get' my reads, understand where they come from. You'd know what the "vague crap" would really be if you were town. (Well, you know regardless. You'd just be willing to explain it as town.)

Anyone with AP somehow as town (

they really shouldn't

)

has reason to strongly believe me to be town.

Sorry mastin, you can't have your scumread on me and vouch for my read on you at the same time.

Emphasis added. I'm not. I'm saying those who think you're town should also be trusting the townread in me, because if you were town and I wasn't, then said townread wouldn't exist. Not like this. But quite explicitly, I fully recognize they have no reason to townread me if you're scum. (Other than that a scum-AP is literally the last person I would ever consider bussing. ) And that I think you're scum.

K a lot of mastin's posting has been really stream-of-thought this game and thats why shes been a townread for me. The issue is looking back, Im really not seeing anything thats actually extremely town in the stream of thoughts / feelings posts that are going on.

Bullfuckingshit. The reason I'm town isn't some shitty stream-of-consciousness thought that I can also pull off as scum; the reason I'm town is because I'm town, and you damn-well know it. A town-you doesn't have a reason like this for me to be town to begin with; a town-you just knows. Especially evident in the latter half. Literally could not get more obvtown this game than I have been. All my thoughts are there, explained, and if you were actually town, you'd be able to follow along with all of them and understand them, even if ultimately disagreeing with some.

It almost all looks really overly static which is a symptom of mastin rolling scum (AG mafia , /in-15, mini 1408).

LIKE HELL MY READS HAVE BEEN STATIC. Sixteen players in the game other than me. One handful. LITERALLY ONE DAMN HANDFUL. Hasn't changed. (Rancid. Mac. Clyton. Ignoring strength-of-read changing, that's literally it. You can throw in Red Gyarados and Lord Business for reads that have never dipped even remotely close to the nullline, but that's it.)

I. JUST. WENT. INTO. EXPLICIT. DETAIL. ABOUT. EACH. PLAYER. And for a lot of them (probably shoulda done it for all of them), how that read has formed throughout the game. FILLED. TO. THE. BRIM. WITH. CHANGE.

Saying that Im "trying to look town" is literally the vaguest argument since literally everybody in the game is trying to look town.

Yet it's the best wording I've got.

Know what you said about me in Too Many Heads?
It wasn't some concrete scumtell you used to pin me.
It was the general feeling of my posting there.
Know what zMuff said about me there, and in Titan?
Basically the same thing, though he later found a description of "whimsy" that sort-of worked.

You're asking me to give a concrete scumtell on you, when you know DAMN good and well that none exists. Not one so easily defined anyway. I did my best to describe it. I can't give a much more competent argument than that.

Really not seeing any truly genuine explanation behind the gut and that worries me.

IF I HAD ANY EXPLANATION FOR THE GUT READ, I WOULDN'T BE CALLING IT A GUT READ.

AP. Is. Scum.

[MastinSSK]

I reall do expect SOME level of competence from town-mastin.

Okay.

How's this.

I think I finally have it.

The scumtell that describes AP.

AP's scumtell is, put in simplest terms, "You can't

prove

I'm scum, nyehnyeh."

And that's what he's doing.

[MastinSSK]

Okay.

In fairness.

AP and I are alike.
That scumtell is partially my own.
But it's his more than mine. I have other scum traits that better define my scumgame. (Among them 'lack of whimsy', for lack of a better term.) They partially define AP, but don't work as well for him as they do for me because while we're similar, we're not identical.
So when I say "You can't prove I'm scum", it's something that admittedly is something I've discovered to be among my own sorta-scumtells.

But it's not mine. It's AP's. Because when I think about one statement. That entirely encapsulates the vast majority of AP's play as scum? Across all games. Antihero. Game of Champions. Harry Potter. Wherever. It's that one statement, boiled down, just applied in different forms. AP can't be proven to be scum. That's him. That's who he is as a scum player. You can have all the suspicion in the world. But every time it's correct, the reasons are never quite tangible. Never provable. Because that's what AP's scumplay is, that's what AP's scumplay does.