NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[geists]

Correct.

GM didn't go by "goodmorning" on that site, and I didn't learn who I was playing against until later. You can't find the game by google searching both our names.

I'm satisfied. Though I didn't question the claim in the first place.

[goodmorning]

I was going to say, that's a good one.

[Ms Marangal]

annndd.. I'm off to bed, night

[Empire]

Day 5, Votecount 22

pieguyn (3)

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goodmorning, Ser Arthur Dayne, Ms Marangal

Titus (3)

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F-16_Fighting_Falcon, KoreanBBQ, pieguyn

Ser Arthur Dayne (2)

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Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana

Prophylaxis (2)

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zMuffinMan, Titus

zMuffinMan (1)

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Prophylaxis

Not Voting (2)

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geists, Norlkaz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on February 12th at 7:35 AM EST or in (expired on 2014-02-12 08:35:22).

Mod Notes

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Sakura Hana is V/LA.

[Prophylaxis]

PTAP, will post more tomorrow.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

These are the posts where Generic sucks up to Pieguyn

:

Lol, sorry Pieguyn... I didn't even notice it was you asking me that question. I'm skimming while at work on the iPhone.

I sympathise with his position and felt he did well to battle everyone at once.

You are indeed correct. Awful misrep on my part, I apologise. Your back and forth is immediately after your vote on him.

I like this and its a convincing case for your vote

but I will point out that if you put SADs list of suspects against the SC wagon (which you did) you will notice the vast majority sit in that top two tiers where he has already stated are his main suspects.

What I agree with though is its been pretty empty in the analysis, because he has F16 as the only one from that wagon in his top town picks, and sakura hana in tier two (that's the cool tier btw, we have a bit of edge to us in tier two )

Now I can easily speculate why these two are excempt from suspicion but I want SADs reasons and his thoughts on their connection to the SC wagon. If we are gonna be doing wagon analysis (since he took such exception to me doing so with KBBQ) lets have that conversation.

On other business, I love how geists now has this more cinical and carefree edge to their posts since getting effectively a cop clear. You can call it being butthurt if you like, unless you are a scum cop (which btw I find rather stupid logic to have been thrown out this early in the bloody game) you guys represent the first one I know I now have read wrong

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mara, I have a hard time seeing these as scum-scum interactions. What are your thoughts about that? Would Generic interact with a buddy that way?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

ISO Minions from BB:HoH mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... overview=1

Ctrl+F for "Bulb" "Gnomeo" and "Peacebringer", his scumbuddies. At no point does he suck up to his buddies. He sucks up to townies all the time though. "Excellent point," "Excellent analysis" - phrases like that are littered throughout his ISO whenever he interacts with townies.

[Ms Marangal]

Not Impossible. It isn't something I have seen him do before, I think but I have learned to change my scum-play a little in how I interact with buddies so that, it can't be detected most of the time (EG my interaction with Fonz in Empires mini normal) and with the knowledge that Generic does have a stronger scum-play than I do, even in the buddy interaction department, I'm not going to write off Pie as town based on him sucking up to him.

also, Comparing his interaction with Pie to his interaction with myself, Nacho/thor, and Tammy it's nothing like the latter three. He has sucked up to Tammy and myself, but the tone he used with us was more friendly than apologetic

[Ms Marangal]

also (going off memory) he reacted differently when questioned on his read on me and Tammy compared to his read on Pie. It was more defensive, I think

[pieguyn]

so here's some analysis

SAD and Generic have been basically following each other for the entirety o D1/D2. whenever one of them goes somewhere, the other one follows suit. this could be considered buddying, but as far as I could tell, they were scumreading each other or at least putting pressure on each other and this still happened. this makes me think their D1 back-and-forths were distancing

Spoiler: TEXTWALL

Vote: Stuffed Crust

unvote,
Vote stuffed crust

I let a lot of the mental patient schtick slide but you are covering having to address anything with it and firing off posts at anything. It's getting old and I think you are desperately trying to troll your way out of your predicament

here SAD jumps on SC (I assume it's bc they were the biggest wagon at the time) and Generic follow suit. Generic's reason was kind of sketchy and comes way out of left field (if you dual iso Generic + SAD the bit about "mental patient stick" comes out of nowhere) and feels made up

Also, if maraca is somehow town, ^ this is probs scum.

care to explain why?

ftr I've been wondering about mara for a while now

So really the only difference is...more players.

yeah. since there's more players I feel overwhelmed trying to sort everyone =A= so often I have no idea what to do and I get lost easily. hence wagon hopping

Oh dear lord that was bad Pieguyn. Someone tries to make a point about you linked to mcmaraca and you now have suspicions of them?

And your explanation for being on all the major wagons is sheeping the majority? :no:

I'll hop onto maraca if need be

still prefer casso. not sure about SC 0.0 SC's wagon is giving me bad vibes, but I'm willing to trust GIF's read if need be (plus it'd make sense if they chose to bus considering GIF is known for reading Varsoon correctly all the time). there's too many small wagons and IMO some people need to start merging to get some better wagons going

So you complain about too many small wagons but open the door to moving your vote to mcmaraca?

Also the comment about SC is atrocious. You are happy on the casso wagon, don't like the SC wagon yet are willing to trust GIF over it, which could be GIF bussing them?!?

Where do I start with THAT!? You trust scum on a wagon you have bad vibes for, you prefer the casso wagon but are ready to move onto two other wagons and you don't want indecision anymore but are open to a new push on mcmaraca....

You are scum aren't you Pieguyn.

Pie wtf.

I thought you were actually town.

How do you go back to making me think you're scum in a span of 2 pages.

here Generic gets a scumread on me and in SAD's next post he immediately follows. this also explains his magical flip flopping read on me

Vote: F-16

I started to have concerns about f16 with the recent posts, I could feel a sense of flailing to them.

But what's more disconcerting is the AMOUNT of naked votes suddenly moving over to him with no noticeable indication from these people they were swayin that way.

F16 is more likely town based on this odd wagon push alone, before I return to the strong early play.

here SAD votes F-16, Generic postures for a jump on F-16 wagon. the F-16 read literally comes out of nowhere (I don't think Generic ever gave any sort of read on F-16 at all before this)

I don't care about votes as much as most people do.

Really? Interesting...

This looks like textbook crowd folowwing not that I'm not guilty of that as well

---

Fuck you, I'm reading the game. I just don't fact check minute accusations against people other than me; that's their job.

Really? Interesting...

- the way he parked his vote on you D1, followed by parking his vote on me for a majority of the rest of the day. the one with me irked me a bit because i prodded him about it, and he said he wanted me to do something, and then i never did it and he backed off of me and now i'm apparently on the townier side of his middle-tier reads. i can maybe sorta understand it if something i'd done had changed his mind about me? but he hasn't mentioned me at all, really, so i dunno how that happened

The accusation here that was made is that I camped my vote. You then proceeded to ACCUSE me of "crowd following". What the fuck do you mean "it's their job". Nothing he said was freaking wrong. THE ACCUSATION YOU MATERIALIZED OUT OF THIN AIR IS. STOP. SCAPEGOATING.

---

If you'd like to argue your suspicions didn't shift with convenient timing, I would consider it a reasonable rebuttal if you could produce evidence, but I don't care nearly enough to look for it myself.

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

Not to mention that statement is terrible for other reasons (for example the fact that you expect me to defend myself when you yourself HAVE NOT PRESENTED A CASE OR ANYTHING FOR ME TO DEFEND AGAINST. In the words of The Hound, "Bugger that. Bugger him. Bugger you.")

1) that's not a contradiction

2) Your read magically changed because everyone else's did; it's their job mean if you have a problem with that assertion then you need to argue with it

3) I don't care whether I have presented a case or not despite this being a massive double standard

1) Yes, "textbook crowd following" has NOTHING to do with votes. Dear me, where did I ever get the idea that it does?

2) What the fuck. No. Literally. WHAT. THE. FUCK. You're saying you're going to accuse me of something I didn't do and that IT'S MY JOB OF THEN FIGURING OUT IF IT'S TRUE OR NOT/FACT CHECKING IT? Are you going to keep fucking denying you're scum? "Hi I'm going to spew shit at you and I give no fucks if it's actually true or not that's your job of figuring out! Oh also I'm town!"

3) Yeah I'm done this please die scum.

1) You're a moron.

2) I was agreeing with Muffin. If you have an issue, take it up with him, rather than deflecting the issue by starting a fight with me and throwing in some fake rage.

3) I'd prefer not to, if only marginally.

2) What bong are you smoking from? Because there's no way you're in your right mind and think this. Here, I'll make it very clear:

MU

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TA

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ME

NT

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HI

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You were not (key words: WERE NOT) agreeing with Muffin. You made a NEW accusation. JUST because you quote his post and then write something under it does not mean you're agreeing with the statement. He said I basically camped my vote and that I didn't explain my reads when I switched off of them. YOU came in and then said that it was "crowd following". These are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. What the hell do you mean "take it up with muffin"? Stop fucking scapegoating. You and him were NOT saying the same thing. Not remotely. Stop deflecting your wrong accusation and putting the blame elsewhere. I can see where he's coming from and I even agree with him (and I am aware of the weaknesses in my playstyle, so again, I see where he's coming from). However, the accusation you made is WRONG. So you're either scum and spewing shit or haven't been reading the fucking thread and think you can bullshit your way through the game. You've already claimed that the latter is not true. So that leaves me with the former. If you're wrong, which any townie would've realized by now, you would've maned the fuck up and admitted it instead of crying about "But why don't you go blame hiiiiiiim? ;_;".

See I have concerns about cephrir and I'm trying to decide exactly what it is.

The reads of the wagon are indeed consistent with his earlier reads, but it's exactly that sentence DOMO highlighted that pings something.

It's almost as if he had already determined how town the wagon was rather than the main thing being on a wagon should be, that you think the person is scum.
Yes you were asked for opinions of the players on that wagon, but you seemed to introduce whether the wagon was acceptably town enough.

I'm gonna scrutinise the arguement you had with SAD in a bit more detail to settle my mind on a few things, for now though I would rather the SAD wagon stays parked rather than accelerated.

same thing. right after SAD's argument with Ceph Generic comes in with an out of nowhere Ceph scumread. if you ISO Generic and SAD and ctrl+F "ceph" Generic was hardly making any mention at all of Ceph in the period before SAD's argument with him

on top of all of this they were arguing with each other for a good portion of D1/D2 (ISO both of them at the same time), however none of it appears to lead to a concrete read or case either way

so, tl;dr: SAD and Generic look like scumbuddies. there's an obvious pattern of one of them going somewhere, then the other just making up a read based on shit that happened recently before and following suit. there were also a lot of pointless arguments between the two of them that didn't lead to anything at all. there was also SAD's BS defense of SSK that he still hasn't responded to despite saying he did and so he has scum-scum interactions with both flipped scum

check mate ~

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm gonna tell you without even reading that post that it is bad.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Like you're doing that thing Tammy used to do before she got good where she just tunneled hard on someone and started accusing them of random things.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also ur dumb.

I'm still weirded about by his defense of SSK on the basis of being not good information; I like that he was so honest about the associative tell thing (yeah, it was a lie all along), but I'm not really sure what he was supposed to defend himself with as scum and that honestly doesn't look so great when his initial reaction was to lie about it, which would be for SAD-town.

I've already stated that I didn't want the mafiassk wagon to go through because there were better wagons. Plus, I may have exaggerated a few things here and there about my feelings towards the wagon, but I still thought it was a crap wagon because it was information-less. I just exaggerated the fact I don't really care about informational wagons that much *shrug*.

His switch on SSK also seems like an odd position to take; he doesn't seem to be getting boxed in by POE and I don't follow his case on SSK today, so the newfound scumread on him seems opportunistic. I like his snark, and I'm inclined to believe him when he says he wouldn't kill Tammy because he joined this game to play for her, but it's not enough for a townread.

Are you serious? I've already admitted that I think the claim by mafiassk was really weird, plus when domo claimed that just strengthened my suspicions. The "newfound scumread on him seems opportunistic"? Are you serious. Go back and read the posts of this day. You'll note that I was one of the very first people that indicated suspicion of his claim. I can't really see how you see that as opportunistic.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also I like how you just ignored the fact that I shitted on your last wall

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Here, I made tiers, enjoy!

Bert, Desperado
MafiaSSK, geists, Cephrir
pieguyn, BROseidon, KoreanBBQ, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan
goodmorning, Sakura, DOMO, Generic
Casso, F-16, MC Maraca

Top -> Down - Scummiest to least. People within a tier are arranged most to least also.

Don't ever touch anything in the last two tiers unless they claim scum (I mean or something nearly as bad or PoE?). The middle tier should actually be split into two with the first two being higher (and Ceph maybe joining them?), but w/e I like the symmetry of 5 tiers. If you're keen you'll also notice I've developed a scumread on geists!

Wait hold up.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

FUCK

THIS

SHIT

Vote: Muffin

Here lets lynch actual scum.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Here, I made tiers, enjoy!

Bert, Desperado
MafiaSSK, geists, Cephrir
pieguyn, BROseidon, KoreanBBQ, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan
goodmorning, Sakura, DOMO, Generic
Casso, F-16, MC Maraca

Top -> Down - Scummiest to least. People within a tier are arranged most to least also.

Don't ever touch anything in the last two tiers unless they claim scum (I mean or something nearly as bad or PoE?). The middle tier should actually be split into two with the first two being higher (and Ceph maybe joining them?), but w/e I like the symmetry of 5 tiers. If you're keen you'll also notice I've developed a scumread on geists!

Wait hold up.

^ Quote isn't supposed to be there.

And yes I realize I'm spamming the thread >_>

[Norlkaz]

Talah (guy muffin replaced) definitely can be scum. Haven't gotten to Muffin.
On the other hand SAD 4449 which you just quoted looks a lot like a scum post as well.
Would be impressed if F16 or Pieguy flipped scum given scumhunting effort.

[Ms Marangal]

F-16, who from my list of scum would you mind lynching?

[pieguyn]

I love how you immediately roll in here and discredit me. hardly ggs

speaking of that readslist, that's yet another point in favor of you x Generic bc you somehow had a townread on him despite all that arguing. how'd you get a townread on him when p much every single mention of him in your ISO up till then was complaining about one of his posts?

Spoiler: for reference

I was third into geists. And my first three votes were held for a significant period.

But I have isoed you and found you have tactual oh also argued against the accusations amongst the bullshit. So that was a misrep on my part.

And your assessment of me I like a lot, even though I actually think my efforts are better than sub par.

unvote

This is quite a bad post for a multitude of reasons.

Generic how

a) impulsive are you.

and b) reflective are you.

Okay that's actually a pretty genuine post.

Pedit: the first. The second can easily be faked as scum so eh.

How is it OMGUS?

I love how you keep just tapping at people rather than actually going for a proper punch Arthur.

I have a feeling like you think I'm talking about you when I used generic when I actually mean the regular definition of it...

VOTE: SC

=====[]

You hammered when we still had two hours before deadline and Pieguyn before you had said it was L-1?

vote KoreanBBQ

This is quite bad please stop

VOTE: SC

=====[]

You hammered when we still had two hours before deadline and Pieguyn before you had said it was L-1?

vote KoreanBBQ

This is quite bad please stop

That's an interesting post SAD. Why is pressure on the hammerer who would have been well aware he was hammering be a bad thing?

Here, let me see if I can change what you said to make you realize why it is a bad accusation:

"You hammered when we

only

had two hours before deadline and Pieguyn before you had said it was L-1, meaning that even

if

SC had claimed a role there was literally no way for a new wagon to form."

That's how absurd what you said sounds.

also, 6649

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

how'd you get a townread on him when p much every single mention of him in your ISO up till then was complaining about one of his posts?

................................

I called you town even though I complain about every other post that you make. And I am re-calling you town, even though I am still complaining about your posts.

Does this mean we're scum together............

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ftr I've also done this to Cephrir and Sakura this game, and to a degree Bert (well I'm still not sure about that slot).

Ummm, that's a huge ass scum team if we're going on "who did SAD argue with/complain about but call town"

[zMuffinMan]

Here lets lynch actual scum.

stop being bad

[zMuffinMan]

sad,

talk about the reasons you're shit at reading me so i can tell you why you're wrong and we can go back to lynching proph