NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Empire]

Day 5, Votecount 3

Ser Arthur Dayne (2)

-

Sakura Hana, pieguyn

Prophylaxis (2)

-

zMuffinMan, Titus

Titus (1)

-

Prophylaxis

Not Voting (8)

-

geists, Casso the King of Seals, Ms Marangal, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz, KoreanBBQ, goodmorning, Ser Arthur Dayne

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on February 12th at 7:35 AM EST or in (expired on 2014-02-12 08:35:22).

Mod Notes

-

N/A

[Norlkaz]

Yesterday happened without me >_>
This will do for now.
VOTE: Titus

[geists]

Cephrir, my prior slot holder, pushes for the confscum and that makes me suspicious F16? Are you high or drunk?

I like the coaching theory even with daytalk. Scum have to interact with each other at some point. Helping scumbuddies diffuse suspicions is good. Also the presence of daytalk is part of the reason I cannot clear KBBQ.

GM, Generic self-hammered before we'll ever know if that was true.

Piegyn, your townblock needs serious work if Bert was in it prior to Prophy replacing in. His posting has sucked compared to his town games. Bert's behavior sucked.

1) I said you were suspicious because Cephrir might have let slip insider information about MafiaSSK being a scum PR, not because he pushed for the lynch of a conf-scum.

2) Why do you assume that I am either high or drunk as opposed to scum? The last game we played together, I posted an intense meta-dive of you to conclude that you were town. I think you'd expect me to read you correctly if you were town. I am scumreading you based on meta here. Your lack of paranoia that I am scum twisting your meta to get a mislynch when other people suspect you is telling.

Explain the meta basis? I have some thoughts, but I haven't played a game with scum titus - I've read a couple, though.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I have. Do you believe Titus is town?

[goodmorning]

Weird how SSK and Gen interacted with Bert/Proph late D2/early D3.

Day 2, Final Votecount

Desperado (10)(LYNCH)

-

MC Maraca, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Generic, Cephrir, Ser Arthur Dayne, geists, KoreanBBQ, pieguyn, Bert

Casso the King of Seals (4)

-

goodmorning, BROseidon, zMuffinMan, Desperado

Cephrir (3)

-

F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz, DOMO

Bert (1) - MafiaSSK

Not Voting (0)

-

N/A

Generic moves from bussing to... Bert?

Day 3, Votecount 9

Bert (2)

-

Ser Arthur Dayne,

Generic

MafiaSSK (2)

-

Sakura Hana, BROseidon

Cephrir (1)

-

Norlkaz

Ser Arthur Dayne (1)

-

pieguyn

MC Maraca (1)

-

Casso the King of Seals

Casso the King of Seals (1)

-

MC Maraca

Not Voting (8)

-

F-16_Fighting_Falcon, MafiaSSK, goodmorning, zMuffinMan, KoreanBBQ, geists, Cephrir, Bert

This experiment is kinda fun.

[goodmorning]

Why am I still on bert when he is no longer in the game?

unvote

And then this is the reason he unvotes.

Man this is interesting.

[zMuffinMan]

He also kept saying Proph was scum on the day prior to that.

yeah, with absolutely no conviction. he called him out for lurking, but there was no vote, no push to lynch him. come D4 (prior to RC's claim) where was the conviction that Proph was scum? literally the only mention of proph is in a passing note that titus reminded him of broken promises

Why?

bert, interactions with generic (i might pull up the relevant ones later though i see GM is starting to do that now), and i was going over his ISO last night and this post really stood out as really odd - like look at what he says about that stuffed crust wagon in particular <- he says this basically confirms cephrir as scum when he's only

leaning

town on you and pieguy.

what's your read on him?

It's very rare that 5 town will be on a lynch in a row, especially on town.

it's not actually as rare as you're making it out to be, especially in large games (i've seen much larger wagons that were entirely town on a townie - and games lost because of poor VCA like this).

Generic providing meta tells this easily also makes sense in the context of him lining up a mislynch. he would have brought it up easily in order to get the slot lynched

considering the "meta tell" was simply lurking and all proph would need to do to avoid this oh-so-strong meta tell is post, how do you get lining up a lynch from this?

what do you think of generic not even mentioning proph D4 prior to the RC stuff?

[Titus]

Will read and respond tomorrow/the day after tomorrow. Major work project.

[geists]

I have. Do you believe Titus is town?

I can't find a post about her meta in your ISO.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Her logic doesn't make sense. Her push on KBBQ doesn't make sense. I think that points to Titus being scum trying to emulate her stubborn town-meta as opposed to Titus as town actually believing what she says. Town-Titus is far more logical and reasonable. While some of her ideas are unconventional, they are things that can plausibly come from her. Here is a recent game I played with Titus-town so you can see what I mean: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30983

[geists]

I'm such a strongly reads-based player that a player who approaches the game the way town-titus does looks indescipherably absurd, especially in the early game, but I understand what you mean about her logic making some sort of sense when she's town.

The thing that is standing out to me in this game is the way she's insulting players who disagree with her or scumread her. It's a different sort of aggressiveness from what I remember in our earlier games (all town games).

[Titus]

Got a little time during lunch. Replying now.

Prophy, "nice" in that context was used similar to nice try.

F16, you and I both know that disagreement does not mean the player is playing illogically. My logic is valid, and appears sound to me. I have said that KBBQ's manner is the same way I would crumb vig, although I may not have mentioned the game. See Finagling Hills, Mini. I was vig and crumbed in the same manner.

Geists, I am aggessive in every game but I do not level personal insults often as either alignment as I believe it to be poor form. See Bowser's theme game for what I believe is similiar behavior.

Again, I do believe meta is crap but if you go down that rabbit hole I am capable of defending myself as others value that source.

Also, none of you respond to my claim of what happens if Generic is succesful of his "bus" (assuming the falsehood I am scum for sake of argument).

If anyone says I am illogical, they need to show what about my actions lacks logic. My behavior can easily be tracked to a series of suppositions which I believe to be true. Anyone who persists in slandering me basically is helping the scum.

[Norlkaz]

It does not follow that a vig softclaimer is scum if an actual vig is found; random people fakeclaim or softclaim vig all the time.

[Sakura Hana]

yeah like this

Daykill: Titus

[geists]

We are good with voting SAD or Titus today.

[Sakura Hana]

We are good with voting SAD or Titus today.

Ditto.

[KoreanBBQ]

It does not follow that a vig softclaimer is scum if an actual vig is found; random people fakeclaim or softclaim vig all the time.

TBF, this isn't even the argument. Titus is arguing that I softclaimed vig and I denied that and my denial is a scumclaim since I 100% vig softclaimed and her "evidence" is that she softclaimed vig that way which totes ignores that Titus=//=Nero.

[KoreanBBQ]

Why?

bert, interactions with generic (i might pull up the relevant ones later though i see GM is starting to do that now), and i was going over his ISO last night and this post really stood out as really odd - like look at what he says about that stuffed crust wagon in particular <- he says this basically confirms cephrir as scum when he's only

leaning

town on you and pieguy.

what's your read on him?

Well, I was arguing with Bert most of the game and tbh I prob wouldn't give a shit if his slot flips but my scumread is wavering just a tad bit. If I sat down I could write out a proper Bert case but I don't really have the desire to do so. One of the big reasons I was worried about him was his pushing on SSK but not joining his wagon and his reaction was "How annoying!" I asked if that was a scumBert or a townBert reaction. No one really responded to it but I did end up asking Gen about it and he was like "I don't think that's a smoking gun." Is that him pointing to Bert town?

There's also

or we could channel our inner BB Molla and pl the Bert slot for hammering Desp without a claim.

Are you being ironic there?

Or is that flat out hypocricy?

Is this Gen discrediting me to defend his buddy or Gen defending for town cred?

[KoreanBBQ]

Though maybe is conf bias but I still think the last 2 scum are in

Prophylaxis
Norlkaz
Ser Arthur Dayne
Titus

so I don't care all that much who we want to kill today.

[KoreanBBQ]

Though maybe is conf bias but I still think the last 2 scum are in

Prophylaxis
Norlkaz
Ser Arthur Dayne
Titus

so I don't care all that much who we want to kill today.

[KoreanBBQ]

There's also this

Rather than the melodrama, what about giving hard positions that are consistent with the fcts?

I already gave many stances
Casso, SAD, gm, geists, Mara are town.
You, SSK and Proph are scum.

Then, you seriously need to relook here. The scum team you are suggesting makes no plausible sense. We both came in and scumread each other immediately (well he is scum you are right on that). Would scum orchestrate a double replace bus? That doesn't make sense unless the scum team was boned. Given the mislynches and shots, that's far from the case. You are running from all signs shots and deaths point to SH scum and are trying to link m with your byddies.

Generic, it sounds like no matter what I would do, you were just going to scumread me for what Ceph did.

This post she's talking about her and proph not being scum together but doesn't talk about SSK. Does this point to Titus scum/proph town?

[Titus]

It does not follow that a vig softclaimer is scum if an actual vig is found; random people fakeclaim or softclaim vig all the time.

TBF, this isn't even the argument. Titus is arguing that I softclaimed vig and I denied that and my denial is a scumclaim since I 100% vig softclaimed and her "evidence" is that she softclaimed vig that way which totes ignores that Titus=//=Nero.

Actually KBBQ, Norlkaz has the argument right.


No one fakeclaims/fakecrumbs vig who is in their right mind. The real vig will kill them almost certainly. Your denial is to be expected. No one is going to say their actions were a softclaim of the dead vig. That's literally insane and not intelligent for either alignment. The evidence to me is pretty damning that your actions were a claim because I'd do it in the same manner. Does that mean I expect everyone to agree with me? No. However, I do expect people to understand that it is rational for me to believe his behavior was a softclaim.

Will both of you respond to my analysis that Generic "bussing" me is impossible given the fact it would utterly bone the scumteam if successful?

[Generically Purple]

None of you know how upset I was last night :/

[Ms Marangal]

None of you know how upset I was last night :/

Why, hello there.

Either way, as I said before I wouldn't put it past Gen to bus like that so at least you stay alive.

Nati agrees that Generic's play after RC's claim doesn't at all preclude a bus. I'd like to hear Mara's thoughts on this, because my gut says look elsewhere today.

a bus is very, very likely, and I think that it may actually be the case here. Generic is, by no means scared of Titus, so I don't know why he would choose him to jailkeep. There probably was some alterior motive here, but the day went way to fast for me to find it.

[zMuffinMan]

One of the big reasons I was worried about him was his pushing on SSK but not joining his wagon and his reaction was "How annoying!" I asked if that was a scumBert or a townBert reaction. No one really responded to it but I did end up asking Gen about it and he was like "I don't think that's a smoking gun." Is that him pointing to Bert town?

i went to look at this for context and i can't find where it happened (ctrl+f'd "annoy" and "smoking" in generic's ISO). i'd guess distancing if anything, given the only time he really pushed bert is D3 when it was fairly obvious we were lynching mafiaSSK.

Is this Gen discrediting me to defend his buddy or Gen defending for town cred?

i dunno. i'd guess the former. it was an odd post to make either way, given he was supposedly scum reading bert at the time and really shoulda been agreeing with you there.

Generic is, by no means scared of Titus, so I don't know why he would choose him to jailkeep

mm, he was kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place at the time and pretty much had to claim to have jailed titus or his vote at the start of the day wouldn't have made any sense (he had to act like he was suspicious of titus because no kill and JK etc etc)

i'm not reading all that much into generic's choice there. titus's responses to generic after it happened felt town.