Mini 416 - AM Mafia - Game Over D:

[Elias_the_thief]

random vote: Nai

[Elias_the_thief]

sorry i've been out. camping trip.
im happy with my vote where it is. it seems unusual that Nai is defending his question as much as he is when he could easily have just said "oh, my bad" once he saw where the rules immediately answered his question, and moved on.

[Elias_the_thief]

unvote, vote:Shea

Dude, bandwagons are NOT for day 1 claims. That's playing like Coolbot, where you go for the most claims out of the day. If you play this way, we essentially mass claim in a drawn out fashion.

it would only be a drawn out mass claim if we were dumb enough to cause that many claims. causing one person to claim isnt a great idea, but it's not as bad as you're saying. as I see it, Nai is the only one to present any scummy behavior at all, and that was only overdefensiveness. i guess ill

unvote

[Elias_the_thief]

Apparently, me asking questions Scum would already know the answer to makes me scum. Again: Mafia, the game where the most bass-ackwards reasoning will supposedly net you a win.

according to mg anyways. i didnt find the question itself to be scummy, but i found you a little bit overdefensive about it. now that you point out how bad his reasons were, he looks pretty scummy.

fos: massive_goonery

[Elias_the_thief]

seeing as i'm still relatively new (not in time on site but in actual games played) i'm not sure on rules about post restrictions that vary depending on game type. but cogs findings are fairly compelling. this is either 1) a very big coincidence, 2) the mod bending the rules a bit, or 3) TSQ just messing with our heads.
either way, im confused.

[Elias_the_thief]

....

This is a mini regular. There cannot be post restrictions.

fos:Cog

as i already said, i dont really know much about the rules on role restrictions, but after rereading the main rules, it doesnt say anything about not allowing post restrictions in mini normal games. maybe it says it somewhere else, i'm not sure. what made cogs discovery scummy enough to warrant a fos?
[/b]

[Elias_the_thief]

----6:05:00 Vote Count-----

“I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.”~

Frank Sinatra

massive_goonery - 3 - (Ripley, Thestatusquo, PBuG)
Thestatusquo - 1 - (Nai)

Not voting - 8 - (Sailor Jerry, trestain, bird1111, CoG888, massive_goonery, Elias_the_thief, IH, Panzerjager)

........

In a mini regular, there cannot be post restrictions, perhaps you should look up what a mini regular contains?

seems kind of wierd that TSQ has one then.

[Elias_the_thief]

https://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Mini_Normal
the wiki doesnt say anything about post restrictions in this definition.

[Elias_the_thief]

That was 47 Shea. Not Counting Spaces.

Seriously, he does not have a post restriction, or else he's broken it about 20 times, and is dicking around.

As everyones already said, that wasnt 47. and TSQ already explained his restriction as having a small margin for mistakes.

45 non quote non space characters per post. I am allowe

d 10 over/under per game. That means that I can miss my q

uota in 10 posts by one character each, or 1 post of 10 ch

[Elias_the_thief]

----6:06:01 AM - Vote Count-----

“Lose an hour in the morning, and you will be all day hunting for it." ~Richard Whately

massive_goonery - 4 - (Ripley, Thestatusquo, PBuG, Sailor Jerry)
IH - 2 - (CoG888, Panzerjager)
Thestatusquo - 1 - (Nai)
PBuG - 1 - (massive_goonery)

Not voting - 4 - ( trestain, bird1111, Elias_the_thief, IH )
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

*points and laughs for a good 10 seconds*

Can we lynch massive_goonery now, plzkthx?

mustn't get too hasty. someone being an idiot could still be a townie being an idiot. though i think we might need to get a claim from MG soon.

[Elias_the_thief]

i'm still for the lynch. i was saying we should let him have a chance to claim, because pbug asked if we could lynch him right away.

i'm not quite sure if there's any reason for TSQ to make up a post restriction. i mean, besides to make the game more difficult for himself.

[Elias_the_thief]

sorry pbug. sarcasm doesnt come across well on message boards.

the main point of 125 was just that we should wait until MG has a chance to defend himself before we decide to lynch or not. because I had misconstrued pbug's post as being a sincere question.

[Elias_the_thief]

well mg. here's an analysis on your play so far:
first was your complete and utter craplogic for jumping on the Nai wagon. you basically said that since he was acting in a semi protownish way (asking a question that scum would know the answer to) that he must be scum trying to look townish. by that logic, you'd successfully lynch everone who looks protown.

I have no idea what that just meant.

What I want to know is if "Sleep" equates to mafia all the time, and if all the 'sleep'-ers can talk to each other at night.

I know it sounds minor, but I could theoretically see this as pretty scummy. Presumably mafia already have this information, so asking about it seems like a scum tactic to seem pro-town. Also, I can see it as a longshot at possibly setting up a false claim later on.

Looks like there were a couple of unvotes, so I'm cool with a

Vote: Nai

at this point.

after that you go on to ignore the conversation about how the reasons for the bandwagon werent really because he was scummy but for information purposes. you also say that you agree with my post where I say that i didnt like Nai's overdefensiveness, totally ignoring my post 71 in which I denounce my own reasoning as not that great and unvote.

At the moment, Shea is by far the scummiest, with Nai fading some. However, I fear that if he gets run up too quickly we won't learn anything from his lynching. Figuring out whether Nai is town or scum would give massive context to posts #46 and #42. And I do still think he is mafia; I stand by my original post #32 and Elias_the_thief sums up my thoughts to his reaction very well in his post #44.

I'd like to hear what the lurkers think about this before I decide which way to go, so

unvote

.

you also just kinda say that shea is scummy, without providing much reason why.

then, finally, you go on to vote someone because of anti bandwagoning?

Vote: PBuG

for going after my neck for bandwagoning when I put Nai at lynch minus 4 (after two unvotes!). That's anti-bandwagoning. And for glossing over his scumbuddy friend

FoS: Panzerjager

for having "substantial reasoning" when he pretty much restated my reasons for voting Nai in the first place (less eloquently, I might add).

i'm pretty sure he was "going after your neck" for your crappy reasoning, not because you put him at -4, which is really not that close to a lynch. and i dont think Panzerjager restated your reasons at all. while your reasons were that Nai asking the question was scummy, Panzers were as follows:

What up, Shea? This is DC from WIFOM. Anyway, I also think Cubsfan is scummy. Okay, game-related content now Ladies, Gentlemen, and IH.

I dislike how Skruffs clearly wrote that Sleep = Mafia and Work=Town in the rules and Nai is still pushing that it doesn't directly say that Sleep can night talk. He then says that in Normal games things don't change all that much(which is true) and that it is highly probable that Sleep is normal mafia. So, when you think that,they are normal mafia and Skruffs writes that they are normal mafia then it's not normal mafia, in a normal mafia game? Your logic doesn't make any sense and that last sentence was very wordy but I can't make it better. It's seems like Nai is trying to find holes that he can wiggles himself into when he needs to fake a claim. Just for some semi relevant information, Nai is an experianced player so this probably isn't something that can be blamed on him being a "new player".

Vote: Nai

for his poor logic and trying to find holes in the system.

it seems to me his reasons are more based around his reaction then the actual question itself. his vote is also based around the fact that he felt that Nai's logic when he defended his question was poor. not that his action was scum buddying up to town, which was your reasoning.

so far, you've made about 4 or 5 posts, and at least three of them have contained craplogic. the other two have pretty much been claiming that you're reasons were the same as other players', when they weren't. So, that's why I feel that you're the scummiest right now, and worthy of a lynch. but as I said earlier, I'm in favor of a claim and a defense before we decide to do anything.

[Elias_the_thief]

im not sure where i stand on that claim. it's hard to test right now, with no confirmed scum. and MG, i wasnt questioning the meaning of anti bandwagoning, I was questioning the validity of it as a reason to vote.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm not really understanding all of the guessing at purposes of various household objects and trying to discern alignment from them. I dont think any of us will have the same perspective, on what would logically be work or sleep in terms of telephones, as the mod would have on it, and I dont think talk like that is getting us anywhere.
but i went through and did a reread. Not much really jumped out at me besides what I outlined in my case for MG. but this one sequence of posts caught my eye.

I think claims on Day 1 are far more likely to help scum than to expose them. When TSQ said that early claims were good I actually thought he must be joking, though with my record of detecting wit from that quarter, he was probably dead serious this time.

I'm keeping my original random vote on massive_goonery, for the reasons given by PBug in Post 46. Also, in most games I've played the high profile players over the first few pages - equivalent to TSQ and Nai in this game - have turned out to be town.

TSQ was fishing for reactions. MG is scum.

Vote: MassG

Gasp. You expect me to switch now, don't you. You know what, I think I will.

Unvote, vote: massive_goonery

TSQ, often the things you do don't make sense until you explain them. I've seen someone else bandwagon that quickly fishing for reactions, too, and it helped catch the SK.

to me it seemed that TSQ was poking fun at ripleys post, in which he basically was saying that TSQ was fishing for reactions, so he would keep his vote on MG. of course my interpretation could be wrong.
but assuming that it was correct, im kind of disturbed at how quickly pbug changed his vote on something like that.

anyways, back to current game status. as far as lynching goes, i still find MG to be the most scummy. personally, i dont believe that panzer has a case against bug since its based on hypothetical guesses of the mods perceptions. if we all have different opinions on whether telephone would be work or sleep, then the mod could have a different opinion too. i also feel that panzer, though suspiciously fishing for a claim, is not suspicious enough to be lynched currently. im just more inclined to believe that MG is scum. I think our the best move today would still be a lynch of MG, and hope for more info tomorrow.
and that's my two cents.

[Elias_the_thief]

i'm not sold on panzers guilt just yet, though i admit the fishing looks suspicious. in my opinion, we should stick to the MG lynch today, and worry about tomorrow when it's tomorrow. that being said, how many votes does it take to lynch? the mod didnt post it, so i dont feel comfortable placing a vote when I dont know. But are we in agreement about a MG lynch (except obviously MG)?

[Elias_the_thief]

mod:

i've noticed that bird hasnt really been posting at all. he just responded to a prod in one of his other games, so i suggest we do prod him in ours.

[Elias_the_thief]

er, obviously that "do" was not supposed to be there.

[Elias_the_thief]

VOTE: Pbug

.
I will drop this vote and vote for MG if you provide the following:
1. I better reason to lynch MG other then his actions regarding Nai's bandwagon (specifically MG's vote after the wagon disbanded).
2. Well thought out opinions on panzer and myself, who you have pegged as day 2 lynchs

I dont feel that the first part of this is fair. If pbug feels that the things i already outlined are sufficient for an MG lynch then theres no reason to force him to come up with evidence that probably isnt there. of course, he voted right after I asked if everyone was in agreement, and suggested that we proceed with caution. without waiting for any of the others players to answer he went ahead and put MG pretty close to lynch.
personally, I would like to hear pbugs case on cog, seeing as he's already setting him up as the lynch 2 days from now, and i havent heard much that could make a case. the case against panzer is pretty weak in my opinion, so i'd also like to hear why he's comfortable enough to already be certain of him as a lynch tomorrow.

[Elias_the_thief]

well, i'm not even voting, and i provided the case. this is mainly because i'd still like to hear whether or not most people are for the lynch or not.

[Elias_the_thief]

out of those who havent voted. but i think most people have at this point. but theres still converation to be had today.

[Elias_the_thief]

[quote="PBuG"]

I think you and Panzer are scum because the three of you are oviously connected in some way. quote]

While I agree that they look to be connected, they certainly arent confirmed scum because of it. There is always the possibility of masons.
But yeah, pbug didnt follow me unto the MG wagon, he started it, and I merely presented the case against Mg in an organized form.

I think we may need prods, we've been waiting for what the rest of the town has to say for some time.

[Elias_the_thief]

that quote got messed up. but you get the idea.

[Elias_the_thief]

I feel about ready to lynch MG. there's probably not much more to be done today. But MG'd alignment will either be what he said, providing us with some info on pbugs alignment, or MG will have been lying, in which case we'll probably hit scum. i doubt that MG would make up a claim if he was just vanilla, but I suppose its a possibility.
In conclusion, is it ok with everyone if i put him at -1? or is he at -1? the mods edit doesnt say how many to lynch, and I'm not sure how recently that count has been updated anyhow.

[Elias_the_thief]

Agreed, but I think it depends not only on whether MG is town, but if he true claimed. Also, has anyone considered taking MG's offer to use his vig?

on who? besides our case against MG, we dont really have a strong case to kill someone else without further discussion. so if MG's claim is true, we'd essentially be making a random lynch, and since there are more town than mafia, the odds of hitting scum as opposed to town are very slim. i dont think that's a risk i'm willing to take right now.

[Elias_the_thief]

and, er, i'm still for an MG lynch. so i'm ready to put him at -1, whenever we're all in agreement, which for the most part we are. i think 9 out of 12 in favor of the MG lynch, or something close to that.

[Elias_the_thief]

people for an MG lynch

: bird, panzer, TSQ, myself, pbug, ripley, Nai, and I assume sailor jerry since he's voting for him. (if I'm incorrect about anyones opinions please correct them, i'm just going by whatever posts I can find, and who's voting who)

Cog said he doesnt want a lynch this early, and jingolaw is against it apparently. I havent actually heard IH state if he's for or against it, and obviously MG is against it. I think we can pretty much go ahead at this point, but I'm willing to wait for IH to voice his opinion on the situation.

[Elias_the_thief]

i guess i'll put him at -1 then.

vote: massive_goonery

[Elias_the_thief]

er, i believe he actually said that he thought they were both nuetral. i dont think he said anything about him being town.
and good job violating the restriction TSQ. that was like 12 characters.

[Elias_the_thief]

I also dont understand your argument. youre saying a townie wouldnt lie because theyd be lynched and wouldnt be trusted. doesnt a scum player have the same exact motivation to not lie as a townie? no one wants to be lynched, cog.


@TSQ: even if i dont think that you're necessarily scum because you lied, i find your lie suspicious because it allowed you to get away with not explaining anything you did day one. i dont see why a town player would want to limit the information that they are contributing to other town players, i.e. motivation behind their actions. this just seems kind of anti town to me.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias,

You really feel I avoided discussion day1? You really feel I didn't address points and make some of my own? I even went to the lengths of quadruple and quintuple posting to get around that. You're completely missconstruing my d1 actions.

oh, im not saying you contributed nothing. you did successfully try to teach Nai a little, as well as fully explain a post restriction which you in fact, did not have.
regardless of what you did contribute, you could have have contributed much more had you not faked a restriction. and furthermore, you complained because you wanted to make an in depth post, but you couldnt because you had a post restriction. even if you're not scum, youre not really helping us out much either. did you honestly expect us to just accept that you lied and move on? the possibility of ensuing confusion was inevitable and completely predictable, and yet you went on anyways for a little bit of fun.

but all TSQ crap aside, i too would like an answer out of fircoal.

Thirdly, I never said I was staying away from the MG wagon I simply would have prefered a PBuG lynch. There was no one, myself included, wanted to spend the time to test MG's claim.

You did, say that you thought MG was town, and that's all you would say about it.

Vote: Panzerjager

er, i believe he actually said that he thought they were both nuetral. i dont think he said anything about him being town.

This is in danger of being buried by all the posts about tsq. I agree with Elias, I can't find where he said MG was town either. Fircoal, you put a fast third vote on here, can you please say where you got this from?

[Elias_the_thief]

im kind of lost in all this talk about who accused who and whos logic is faulty. i'll have to do a reread so I remember who actually said what, exactly. right now im just posting to assure you that im still alive. i'll try to make some sense of this stuff tomorrow.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias,

You really feel I avoided discussion day1? You really feel I didn't address points and make some of my own? I even went to the lengths of quadruple and quintuple posting to get around that. You're completely missconstruing my d1 actions.

oh, im not saying you contributed nothing. you did successfully try to teach Nai a little, as well as fully explain a post restriction which you in fact, did not have.
regardless of what you did contribute, you could have have contributed much more had you not faked a restriction. and furthermore, you complained because you wanted to make an in depth post, but you couldnt because you had a post restriction. even if you're not scum, youre not really helping us out much either. did you honestly expect us to just accept that you lied and move on? the possibility of ensuing confusion was inevitable and completely predictable, and yet you went on anyways for a little bit of fun.

This seems to have been buried. TSQ really in fact didnt contribute much besides what i stated above. the post was sarcastic. You really didnt contribute much, seeing as most of your posts were explaining the game to Nai, who didnt really need it, and to explaining your post restriction, which you didnt have. this is why it was none beneficial, you added pretty much nothing.
its very easy to think that you could be a mafioso who faked the restriction. It gives you a free check to make small posts with little content. its also easy for me to believe that you forgot about your plan, and when people pointed it out, you faked the whole "fake for a challenge thing". even though a town player could use this tactic for fun, in my opinion its much more likely that a scum player would use this tactic to make it an easier game for themself.

[Elias_the_thief]

Stuff bout Pbug:

Well. We had two NK's last night, so we either have a vig or SK on our hands. Based on Pbug's partial claim, he would be either the vig or the SK i guess. sometimes ive felt that he is too easily convinced. ill do a reread focusing on his play later. I'm curious about pbugs role, but I'm not sure how scummy he is yet.

Stuff bout Panzer:

There's the matter of him fishing for a claim a while back, and he was very quick to put the last vote on. but really, not strong enough for a lynch in my opinion.

Stuff bout TSQ:

i still dont like the post restriction. regardless of the LAL argument, faking a post restriction is something thats simply more beneficial to scum then town (as in, its more useful to do as scum). basically your argument that it was for a challenge is the same as saying "i decided to vote hop and fish for claims first day and see if i could live". maybe it was for fun, maybe it wasnt, but you'd probably still be lynched because you cant let every person who claims "oh, i did something scummy for a challenge" live.

Stuff bout Jingolaw:

im not keen on how you've acted since you've jumped in. you seem too eager to lynch. but not too suspicious, because youre fairly new. (not to mafia but the site) perhaps youve never played online before. id like you to clear that question up so i have a better idea about how to judge your actions.

Stuff bout Fircoal

: the way you based your vote off of someone saying something that they in fact didnt say disturbed me. thats about it.

I dont think any of these people have committed lynchable offenses. theyre not

that

suspicious, yet. but i'm still mainly wary of TSQ, IGMEOY. we obviously cant afford a mislynch if we're losing two a night. of course, it could be that we have a vig, and the vig made a kill last night. since MG was one shot, i'd bet any other vigs would be one shot too. I suppose i could post my opinions on other people too, but I wanted to post on the most active people whom my suspicions are on. if youre not on the list, im either not suspicious of you, or you need to start posting more.

[Elias_the_thief]

EBWOP: in the panzer section, the last vote imm referring to is the one on MG, not the one he just placed.

[Elias_the_thief]

Not-quite-claiming? Where the hell did you get that? The last time I said anything about my own role was my first post of the day where I suggested I claim.

I think what he's referring to is when you said that you didnt belive MG's role based on your own role.

[Elias_the_thief]

EBWOP:

CoG: I said once Elias laid the vote, I would hammer. I did what I promised. I was under the impression that Elias would have my back if it came down to lynching me for hammering.

yeah, youre right about that. I was under the impression that you were going to put it down when we were in agreement, but you were just doing what you said you would.

Anyways, i'd like to hear some more content from TSQ. when he, er, had his post restriction, he complained that he couldnt make an in depth post. i dont see whats stopping him now.

[Elias_the_thief]

i dont feel that ive heard a strong case for either. im still unhappy that TSQ is barely posting, and when he does post, not posting more than a sentance. if someone could actually present a decent case for pbug of panzer i could be convinced to vote.

[Elias_the_thief]

I will be out of town and unable to post until sometime on Saturday.

[Elias_the_thief]

hmm. checking in.

[Elias_the_thief]

we did lose a lot

qft

[Elias_the_thief]

hmm. this game is really going nowhere. This post is just a bump.

[Elias_the_thief]

I believe that depends on whether or not you have someplace to go or not.

[Elias_the_thief]

hmm. how would you answer tsq?

[Elias_the_thief]

sorry for my absense guys, ive been sick for a while and I still am. After I post this or a similar message in all my games I will return to bed. But you can expect me back in 1-2 days. this funtions as a BUMP.

[Elias_the_thief]

Well I'm back, but unfortunately this game is still going nowhere.

[Elias_the_thief]

When was the last time you added anything of worth, TSQ? you claimed a post restriction day one, complained that you couldnt post anything of content, but now that its gone, all youve done is defend your own move to make the restriction up. And I still feel that the false post restriction is scummy since there is so much more to gain as scum with a restriction then as town, seeing as its a free pass to post almost no content. You also totally ignored the two posts I made showing how you in fact posted nothing of worth D1 despite how you claimed to.
And also, as a sidenote, I posted my opinions about most of the players a while back, and thats how I still feel. If you cant remember my opinions, I suggest

you

do a reread.

[Elias_the_thief]

As I said my last post, I've already posted my opinion on many of the players. But rather than actually rereading to find out what I was talking about, you accuse me of OMGUSing, when in fact I wasnt, since I had already posted several times about how you hadnt posted any content, and was simply reiterating.

Stuff bout Pbug:

Well. We had two NK's last night, so we either have a vig or SK on our hands. Based on Pbug's partial claim, he would be either the vig or the SK i guess. sometimes ive felt that he is too easily convinced. ill do a reread focusing on his play later. I'm curious about pbugs role, but I'm not sure how scummy he is yet.

Stuff bout Panzer:

There's the matter of him fishing for a claim a while back, and he was very quick to put the last vote on. but really, not strong enough for a lynch in my opinion.

Stuff bout TSQ:

i still dont like the post restriction. regardless of the LAL argument, faking a post restriction is something thats simply more beneficial to scum then town (as in, its more useful to do as scum). basically your argument that it was for a challenge is the same as saying "i decided to vote hop and fish for claims first day and see if i could live". maybe it was for fun, maybe it wasnt, but you'd probably still be lynched because you cant let every person who claims "oh, i did something scummy for a challenge" live.

Stuff bout Jingolaw:

im not keen on how you've acted since you've jumped in. you seem too eager to lynch. but not too suspicious, because youre fairly new. (not to mafia but the site) perhaps youve never played online before. id like you to clear that question up so i have a better idea about how to judge your actions.

Stuff bout Fircoal

: the way you based your vote off of someone saying something that they in fact didnt say disturbed me. thats about it.

I dont think any of these people have committed lynchable offenses. theyre not

that

suspicious, yet. but i'm still mainly wary of TSQ, IGMEOY. we obviously cant afford a mislynch if we're losing two a night. of course, it could be that we have a vig, and the vig made a kill last night. since MG was one shot, i'd bet any other vigs would be one shot too. I suppose i could post my opinions on other people too, but I wanted to post on the most active people whom my suspicions are on. if youre not on the list, im either not suspicious of you, or you need to start posting more.

I also was actually involved in D1. Now instead of attacking me for lack of content, perhaps you could post some.

[Elias_the_thief]

Times when you posted 4-5 times to express something:
- When you explained to Nai the purpose of Bandwagoning Day 1
- When you explained a post restriction that you actually didnt have.

Thats about all I see. Your greatest contribution to Day 1 was explaining to Nai the reasoning behind the bandwagon on him. The way you talk about making these 4-5 post long opinions implies that you contributed more than you did.

[Elias_the_thief]

why me again?

[Elias_the_thief]

first, explain which post youre talking about which contained the logic I "bit".

second, I already explained how it wasnt OMGUS seeing as I had already posted my suspicions based on lack of input from you several posts before, and you simply refused to respond to them.
Did you like, actually read the post? The main point was that you ignored my other posts, and you call that OMGUS? That doesnt even make sense.

Anyways, I asked pbug, not you. Is there any reason you feel the need to tell me what his reasons are, rather than let him express them himself?

[Elias_the_thief]

1) Faking the PR led to discussion, which was valuable to the town. I would say the people who pushed for a lynch because "PR's are not in normal games." probably has a decent chance to be scum, as I do not see town reaction to something as "lynch it without any more discussion plz." That's one major contribution I have had.

You said right after you were outed that your intention was to give yourself a challenge, not to stimulate conversation. If a mafioso attempts to blend in by casting new suspicions on a townie already under fire, and the player is lynched and turns out to be a serial killer, that helps out the town. But that doesnt change their alignment. Your argument is dumb because you essentially caused conversation by accident, as Im quite certain you simply forgot you were supposed to be faking a PR.
As for the actual action you took, its dumb. If a mechanic is claimed in a type of game where that mechanic is not allowed, it is essentially a false claim. Not only that, but a false claim that lets you limit your contributions. I think thats a fair reason to be suspicious of someone.

3) Re: Elias. I voted him because what he did is a fairly common scum move. It goes like this:
1) You notice there is no discussion in the game
2) You call for people to discuss, without adding anything yourself
3) You seem to be persuing a protown course of action, but are not actually helping the town at all yourself. This is why "Wow...Nothing going on here...Can you guys discuss plz" posts will always be looked at carefully in my eyes.

My post was for the purpose of announcing my return to the game, nothing more. There had been two posts between mine to say I would be out and mine where I returned. I planned to reread soon after that post. I posted simply so that players knew I was back, and yes, I commented on the lack of action, but I didnt ask other players to start posting more. Way to put words in my mouth.

4) I helped push the nai wagon which led to the start of our first day 1 discussion. Basically, I forced people to take sides on something for the first time this game

Please. Give me a quote where you actually do this. You were simply another person on the wagon. If by making people to take sides, you mean asking Nai if d1 wagons where good or not, then I laugh at this point.

[Elias_the_thief]

You explained to Nai that bandwagons are good. Seems like rock hard evidence to me.

[Elias_the_thief]

The attack was almost pure OMGUS,

How the hell was my attack OMGUS? I was repeating arguments which I posted before you voted me! Stop pretending that my attacks arent right. youre "contributions", if you choose to call them that, would have been greater if you hadnt made up a fake restriction, regardles of what you did "contribute". therefore the restriction allowed you to get away with less contribution, and that makes it suspicious. Anyways, the whole reason

youre voting me is because I was supposedly "trying to look town",

(which I wasnt, you put words in my mouth, and have yet to respond to the fact your accusations against me on this account are WRONG), but lets look at your own post day 1.

I really wish that I could make a post like that one....

This is right after another player makes an in depth post full of analysis. you basically say, I would help the town if I could but wait, I have a resriction.

If thats not trying to falsely appear protown, then I dont know what is.

As I said in my last post, your fake restriction is essentially a false claim in terms of incrimination. And any contribution that came of your faked restriction (discussion stimulation) is greatly outweighed by the confusion it caused within the town.

ugh.

unvote, vote: TSQ

. I believe thats -2.

[Elias_the_thief]

see this is why portown players (who play WELL) wouldnt lie. Now we dont know whether to trust you or not. its like the boy who cried wolf. personally i think youre lying, thus the reluctancy to actually claim.

[Elias_the_thief]

Anyways, I asked pbug, not you. Is there any reason you feel the need to tell me what his reasons are, rather than let him express them himself?

My reasons are pretty much what TSQ just said.

Dont follow your scumbuddy around. I want to hear it from YOU.

[Elias_the_thief]

dude, 1) that wont count, you didnt actually vote, and please dont fix it yet. 2) we werent doing anything to begin with. what exactly did i distract us from? 3) whatever it was, i believe i found scum in TSQ. i think thats more important than what we were doing

[Elias_the_thief]

you also claimed to have a PR. its hard to pick and choose which out of the things you say to believe.

[Elias_the_thief]

I dunno why he didnt get NKed, but its pretty clear to me now that he's probably some sort of alarm clock. the one time use lynch immunity could represent the snooze button. So i guess he's town, though I was certain he wasnt.

[Elias_the_thief]

My suspicions are on Pbug for his BS reasons for voting me, and because he hammered TSQ just to prove he wasnt his scumbuddy. Now that TSQ appears to be town, that move is even more suspicious.

[Elias_the_thief]

Well, I feel that Pbug is scum, for reasons I've stated before. I guess im going to translate my suspicions into a

vote: pbug

. This should bring him to -2, I think.

[Elias_the_thief]

When it was first posted, I felt that it was scum bussing his buddy. But now that TSQ appears to be protown, Im not sure how I feel about it. In my opinion, it was much too quick and thoughtless, regardless of TSQ's alignment.

[Elias_the_thief]

I dont buy the claim, based on the flavour of the game. It seems that everything would have some sort of role in waking/keeping asleep joe.

[Elias_the_thief]

I still feel that pbugs actions thus far are scummier then that post. He hammered someone just to try to prove that he wasnt their scumbuddy.

[Elias_the_thief]

I never attacked their logic. The post was scummy. But I feel that your play this game overall is much more worthy of a lynch.

[Elias_the_thief]

I have no intention of lynching jingolaw today when there is a much more suspicious pbug right there. Theres no reason to force a claim from jingolaw today.

[Elias_the_thief]

Im not sure where to look at this point. I need a reread.

[Elias_the_thief]

er. panzer looks kind of dumb now.

Im going away for the weekend, til sometime monday. sorry.

[Elias_the_thief]

Im back, though i'm unable to post content in all of my games upon arrival (too many games). I'll try to get to this one soon.

[Elias_the_thief]

Wow, this game is really dead. Im confused about what happened with the tracking too. Perhaps a second roleblocker?

[Elias_the_thief]

I'll reread some. I have a feeling for some reason that scum is hiding in the shadows, and that we're not headed in the right direction. Not sure about Panzer though.

[Elias_the_thief]

*_*_*_* Vote Count - 6:20:11 AM *_*_*_*

"Sometimes troubled sleep is a sign of a troubled mind. " ~ www.thesleepshopappleton.com

Panzerjager -2- (Jingolaw, CoG888)
Jingolaw -1- (Panzerjager)
Not voting -3- (Fircoal, Elias_The_Thief, Cpt_Fantastic)

With 6 alive, it takes

4

to lynch.
*_*_*_*_*_*_*

Cpt, do you realize that TSQ ia dead already?

[Elias_the_thief]

Im pretty sure that players entered the game with a pretty much automatic protown alignment claim. I dont find this particularly scummy, though a little unnecessary, almost as if he was playing a noob kind of move and just claiming townie outright. More weird then scummy in my opinion. whats with the "major" fos, panzer?

[Elias_the_thief]

Why the hell hasnt someone unvoted? In my opinion Guardian cant be scum, he wouldve hammered, so either the last scum is sleeping on the job, or theyre both already on the wagon (assuming there are 2).

Also, guardian, are you seriously asking a player to quote a PM from the mod? Which has a penalty of modkilling? How can you possibly be requesting this?

[Elias_the_thief]

oh, ok. I understand now. Since we're at LYLO, do you feel I should claim at this point?

[Elias_the_thief]

after consulting the mod, the information I could provide will not refute cogs claim. larger post coming later.

[Elias_the_thief]

ok.
Guardian brings up a good point about how the mafia wouldnt block and kill the same player. So that means that Panzer is either just plain scum, or just plain roleblocker, as he says. But I'm having trouble believing the claim, based on the fact that cog was blocked night 1 and panzer had no idea. Also, I have no info to refute cogs claim, and it seems that if since he fake claimed targets with none refuted, besides the claim from panzer, I'm inclined to believe it. So in conclusion, I think that panzer = scum, but Im not gonna hammer yet.

Im also inclined to believe that guardian is scum, possibly the mafia roleblocker. Seeing as we're at LYLO, Im not thinking that mass claiming is really a bad idea.

[Elias_the_thief]

*waits expectantly*

[Elias_the_thief]

so i suppose we wont be needing my claim then?

[Elias_the_thief]

Um, guardian, why were you just trying to get out the massclaim for extra info for the town, and now you dont want to tell what you found out? I though you wanted the town to have as much info as possible. Also, stop trying to pressure people into hammering.

[Elias_the_thief]

I agree with panzer and cog. Theres no way that you should be so confident on so little. How can you draw something about panzers alignment from the fact that YOU didnt hammer? that *at the very most* could say something about your alignment, but that would be WIFOMy.

[Elias_the_thief]

Ok. So yeah, the only thing you not hammering means is that you are either scum with panzer, or town. What does this say about his alignment? nothing.

However, the inconsistency still stands. It still seems to me that Cog's claim is genuine, therefore there are either 2 blockers, or PJ is scum who was forced to come up with a claim to explain being with TSQ, and was caught by the fact that his claim didnt explain what it should. But then the question becomes, if panzer isnt RB, what happened with Cogs track? if there was another RB, why didnt they counterclaim? either there actually is a mafia roleblocker, who didnt want to out PJ, or i have no idea. either way this is very confusing.

To get back to Guardian, his alignment depends entirely on PJ's. If PJ is scum, im convinced that Guardian is. If PJ is town, I dunno. it probably wont matter because we're at LYLO. But i'd have to think he's town.

As for Jack, it's hard to get a read on him. He seems convinced of PJ's guilt, but id like to wait til we explain Cogs result before we go lynching people.

[Elias_the_thief]

Upon rereading, I'm thinking that the most likely scum is Panzer, and that his buddy is somewhere among the others, though Guardian is possible. Basically panzer rolefished on two seperate occasions throughout the game, and his claim doesnt hold water. Theres also his quick hammer of MG.

Moving on though, Guardian is acting pretty wierd. When he has the opportunity to hammer PJ, he doesnt, but when it passes, he votes him then calls him scummy? Um, yeah. Thats pretty bad. I'm having trouble deciding who I want to lynch today. Hopefully I'll be decided by the next votecount.

[Elias_the_thief]

I didnt say you were successful in your rolefishing, but you tried.

Um, At this point I think either PBuG is scum or Jingo is scum, and I'd like a claim from jingo,

At this point the general consesnus was we were going to lynch Pbug. No reason for a claim from Jingo.

On this current incident with PBuG and the MG claim. I don't think MG is looking at the right thing about PBuG.
<snip>
Remember that mods around here(MS) tend to make games unbreakable by mass claim. I'm not going to vote PBuG but I would like a response, not a claim necessarily but a little explanation.


To sum this up,

Unvote, FoS:MG and PBuG

This isnt as obvious, but at the time you were asking for role info from Pbug, when it wasnt really needed.

And yeah, thats what I mean by your claim cant hold water. And now I'm more suspicious of you, thats not the explanation you gave for hammering quickly back then. I'll give you one last chance to change my mind, but I plan to hammer in my next post.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm certain at least one of you/Guardian is scum, but if Guardian is scum, then you must be also, or else he wouldve hammered for the win. This is confusing as hell. I wish that Cog, the most confirmed player here, would post some more.

Damn Damn Damn. Who to vote?

vote: Guardian

I sure hope this is the right play. Thats -1 Folks.

[Elias_the_thief]

Guardian was really indecisive in the end. I ended up thinking he was a better lynch then Panzer. I guess I went with my gut which lost the game. I never claimed to be the best scumhunter in the world.

[Elias_the_thief]

im frustrated with your play too, though i do admit i played bad at endgame as well.

*actual last post*

[Elias_the_thief]

congratulate is spelled with a t. i noticed you never spell it right skruffs.