Mini 416 - AM Mafia - Game Over D:

[Jingolaw]

*_*_*_* Vote Count - 6:11:00 AM *_*_*_*

“Sleepwalker, take this knife
You may see someone tonight
Youd be the one that saves my life
When Im dead asleep dreamin”
~ Wallflowers, "Sleepwalker"

Panzerjager -2- (PBuG, Fircoal)
Thestatusquo -1- (Jingolaw)
Fircoal -1- (Thestatusquo)
Not voting -5- (Panzerjager, Elias_the_thief , bird1111, Ripley, CoG888)

With 9 alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

There are a lot of things which have no benefit to the town, and yet are not scummy.

Your behavior is not “no benefit to the town.” It is detrimental to the town. The two are not the same, even though you would like them to be. As has been pointed out multiple places, it is quite possible that your behavior is not as a result of you being scum...but that is not the same as your behavior not being scummy.

We’re trying to catch scum.

If you want a playground where you can experiment with only typing with your left hand, or false-claiming to be a racoon, or posting only in code, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

TSQ - Damn, you're good.

All - TSQ lies, both as town and scum, get used to it. LAL is not a valid argument, protown people lie all the time.

Protown people lie for a

reason

. When caught in that lie, they explain themselves rationally. That rationale makes sense retrospectively, which is why the protown player will explain what they did and why...this helps catch scum by adding information, not obscuring it. This is why LAL is not only valid, but necessary. If the general theory were “Everybody lies all the time, and there are no consequences to that,” this would be a dull game. But that’s not the theory. The theory is that if someone is discovered to be lying, it is indicative of that person having something to hide. Now, perhaps the secret is a pro-town secret, and its revelation is a pro-town event...Great!...but without a LAL policy in place, there’s no reason to ever find out.

TSQ’s argument is just silly, but your defense of it is much, much worse. Perhaps you're scumbuddies, but I'll worry about you first.

unvote, vote: PbuG.

[Thestatusquo]

[quote[Your behavior is not “no benefit to the town.” It is detrimental to the town. The two are not the same, even though you would like them to be. As has been pointed out multiple places, it is quite possible that your behavior is not as a result of you being scum...but that is not the same as your behavior not being scummy.[/quote]

Explain to me how it's detrimental to the town. No one has been able to do that. Until you do, it's 'no benefit to the town' you can't make assertions with outsaying why they're true.

If you want a playground where you can experiment with only typing with your left hand, or false-claiming to be a racoon, or posting only in code, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Um, yeah. You can go fuck yourself. I will play however I damn feel like it, and you can just deal with it. If I do it both as town and scum, then it would be really dumb of you to lynch me for it, so dealing with it is pretty much your only option. Don't you tell me to leave a site that I've been playing on for about 234234x as long as you.

[Skruffs]

Respect each other.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias,

You really feel I avoided discussion day1? You really feel I didn't address points and make some of my own? I even went to the lengths of quadruple and quintuple posting to get around that. You're completely missconstruing my d1 actions.

oh, im not saying you contributed nothing. you did successfully try to teach Nai a little, as well as fully explain a post restriction which you in fact, did not have.
regardless of what you did contribute, you could have have contributed much more had you not faked a restriction. and furthermore, you complained because you wanted to make an in depth post, but you couldnt because you had a post restriction. even if you're not scum, youre not really helping us out much either. did you honestly expect us to just accept that you lied and move on? the possibility of ensuing confusion was inevitable and completely predictable, and yet you went on anyways for a little bit of fun.

This seems to have been buried. TSQ really in fact didnt contribute much besides what i stated above. the post was sarcastic. You really didnt contribute much, seeing as most of your posts were explaining the game to Nai, who didnt really need it, and to explaining your post restriction, which you didnt have. this is why it was none beneficial, you added pretty much nothing.
its very easy to think that you could be a mafioso who faked the restriction. It gives you a free check to make small posts with little content. its also easy for me to believe that you forgot about your plan, and when people pointed it out, you faked the whole "fake for a challenge thing". even though a town player could use this tactic for fun, in my opinion its much more likely that a scum player would use this tactic to make it an easier game for themself.

[Jingolaw]

Explain to me how it's detrimental to the town. No one has been able to do that.

Well, aside from my pointing out that adding noise makes it more difficult to detect signal and also pointing out that while town

may

lie, scum

must

lie, and thus LAL is presumptively a valid, useful, and wise strategy. Oh, and CoG888 pointed out a few reasons in post 241. And Elias explained it in post 242, and again in 251. Oh, and Ripley also pointed it out in post 250, and again in 255.

So, if by “No one has been able to do that,” you really mean “No one has beat it into my head by explaining it more than 14 times, which is my secretly required number of times before I will accept an answer because it’s a secret restriction that I just made up, only I know about, and it’s just my play style, so tee hee hee!”...then you’re right, no one has been able to do that.

If I do it both as town and scum, then it would be really dumb of you to lynch me for it, so dealing with it is pretty much your only option.

Wrong yet again. Even if you were town, which I doubt, you’re a mindless distraction: spam, piffle, claptrap. You add nothing and muddy the waters. It would, therefore, be quite wise to lynch you.

Don't you tell me to leave a site that I've been playing on for about 234234x as long as you.

And your wisdom is truly a credit to the board. Thank goodness you’re here.

[PJ.]

Jingolaw brings up some good points, but again I haven't seem enough from TSQ to get a grasp. And would like his secrets to lay at the bottom of the sea for now, because I have a funny feeling they could be town. PBuG is still the scummiest

Vote:PBuG

[Elias_the_thief]

Stuff bout Pbug:

Well. We had two NK's last night, so we either have a vig or SK on our hands. Based on Pbug's partial claim, he would be either the vig or the SK i guess. sometimes ive felt that he is too easily convinced. ill do a reread focusing on his play later. I'm curious about pbugs role, but I'm not sure how scummy he is yet.

Stuff bout Panzer:

There's the matter of him fishing for a claim a while back, and he was very quick to put the last vote on. but really, not strong enough for a lynch in my opinion.

Stuff bout TSQ:

i still dont like the post restriction. regardless of the LAL argument, faking a post restriction is something thats simply more beneficial to scum then town (as in, its more useful to do as scum). basically your argument that it was for a challenge is the same as saying "i decided to vote hop and fish for claims first day and see if i could live". maybe it was for fun, maybe it wasnt, but you'd probably still be lynched because you cant let every person who claims "oh, i did something scummy for a challenge" live.

Stuff bout Jingolaw:

im not keen on how you've acted since you've jumped in. you seem too eager to lynch. but not too suspicious, because youre fairly new. (not to mafia but the site) perhaps youve never played online before. id like you to clear that question up so i have a better idea about how to judge your actions.

Stuff bout Fircoal

: the way you based your vote off of someone saying something that they in fact didnt say disturbed me. thats about it.

I dont think any of these people have committed lynchable offenses. theyre not

that

suspicious, yet. but i'm still mainly wary of TSQ, IGMEOY. we obviously cant afford a mislynch if we're losing two a night. of course, it could be that we have a vig, and the vig made a kill last night. since MG was one shot, i'd bet any other vigs would be one shot too. I suppose i could post my opinions on other people too, but I wanted to post on the most active people whom my suspicions are on. if youre not on the list, im either not suspicious of you, or you need to start posting more.

[Elias_the_thief]

EBWOP: in the panzer section, the last vote imm referring to is the one on MG, not the one he just placed.

[Jingolaw]

Stuff bout Jingolaw: im not keen on how you've acted since you've jumped in. you seem too eager to lynch.

Not sure why I seem too eager. I got here at the start of the MG wagon, and I never jumped on, because I thought the claim was slightly more plausible than not. Turns out it was good, so I looked at who was pushing the wagon, and PbuG and TSQ looked a little scummy, as did Panzerjager’s hammer.

I went after TSQ because LAL tipped me toward him as opposed to Panzer or PbuG. TSQ continued to defend himself and PBuG hinted at claiming. I was actually getting ready to unvote TSQ since we were really just arguing more about metagame issues rather than scumminess, and he was looking less and less scummy, and more and more argumentative (like me).

Then out of nowhere PbuG comes to TSQ’s rescue like Robin to Batman, and for a silly reason. Whoa. That plus the not-quite-claim is enough to get a vote...besides, he can always really claim if it comes to that, right? You’re right that he’s likely SK, though since MG was a one-shot vig, I don’t think PbuG is vig, too. I think at this point the SK is looking to kill townies, so it behooves us to know who it is.

[TBuG]

Not-quite-claiming? Where the hell did you get that? The last time I said anything about my own role was my first post of the day where I suggested I claim.

LAL is NOT a valid argument. I lie in several games as town for role purpose often, but I know TSQ, especially having played with him on scumchat, and I know he'll lie for no reason in particular. Personally, I think that's good, because it eliminates metagaming based on past behavior.

[TBuG]

Oh, and another thing: You're voting me for a connection to TSQ when you think you've got me pegged as an SK. Wha?!?

[Fircoal]

Stuff bout Fircoal

: the way you based your vote off of someone saying something that they in fact didnt say disturbed me. thats about it.

I still think he said it, maybe not in that quote. Either that, or I read it wrong. I also think PBug is town.

[Elias_the_thief]

Not-quite-claiming? Where the hell did you get that? The last time I said anything about my own role was my first post of the day where I suggested I claim.

I think what he's referring to is when you said that you didnt belive MG's role based on your own role.

[TBuG]

Not-quite-claiming? Where the hell did you get that? The last time I said anything about my own role was my first post of the day where I suggested I claim.

I think what he's referring to is when you said that you didnt belive MG's role based on your own role.

If it is, then that's a stupid reason. I have a role that doesn't quite mesh, but I guess it has to.

[CoG888]

bird1111 has flown under the radar day one, and seems to be lurking now. Doesn't look like anyone else mentioned this. I just noticed that he was still in the game, I thought he was replaced.

I don't like sailor jerry's only post on day one, and I can't see much in fircoal's posts now. But what I think is really odd is that SJ made one post, voted for MG, when his fate was pretty much sealed, and got away with it.

[TBuG]

bird might be lurking on purpose since he hasn't been replaced.

[Skruffs]

Ahyup!
Bird1111 and Ripley have been prodded.

[Jingolaw]

Funniest lines of the whole game:

Question:

Not-quite-claiming? Where the hell did you get that?

Answer (in the very next sentence!):

The last time I said anything about my own role was my first post of the day where I suggested I claim.

I’m still chuckling about that one!

You're voting me for a connection to TSQ when you think you've got me pegged as an SK. Wha?!?

Not exactly. It does look like I’m saying that, though, so my fault for not being clearer. I meant that you drew my suspicion by defending TSQ for a bad reason, then after I had re-analyzed your posting history, it made more sense that you were SK rather than scumbuddy to TSQ.

And as SK, you’ll want to kill town at this point, so I’ll both keep my vote on you, and urge others to hop on the wagon.

bird might be lurking on purpose since he hasn't been replaced.

I think you’re right, here…he’s posted other places. Could be he forgot about the game, though.

I’ll wait for bird and Ripley to check in before looking at them any further, though.

[PJ.]

In regards to the stuff about Panzer from Elias. I was not fishing, I simply wanted answer that would give anything to anyone but satisfy me. I backed off when you guys said fishing an haven't mentioned it sense. I think that he has a false claim ready. The hammer was agreed upon. I clearly stated I will hammer when Elias put the vote down. Elias put down the vote. I hammered. Consistency, pro-town on every level.

[CoG888]

Jingolaw: I have a hunch that pbug is not one of our killers. Mostly based on who he was voting and FOSing yesterday, and who turned up dead this morning. Of course I could be wrong... I could be blind to something obvious, but pbug is seeming pro-town to me... aggressive, but town none the less.

Panzer: That is true, but jingolaw was against the lynch, I was not ready to call it a day yet, and IH said he was not sold on it. Also, Sailor Jerry's vote was cast ten days earlier with his only post in the game. If he was playing, he may not have wanted to lynch yet. That leaves Seven that were ready to lynch. That is a majority but the town was clearly not in "agreement" yet.

[TBuG]

If I was SK, I'd be trying to hunt mafia right now, personally.

Jingolaw, your train of thought leaves much to be desired. I didn't even HINT at what my role was in that post.

[Fircoal]

I'd argee, I think the SK would want to kill mafia right now.

@ PAnzer, it looked like you were fishing. But that isn't the worse part. It's just what you said about MG. MAybe it's your post stlye though, because every game I'm with you in, I think you're scum. And I've been wrong twice.

[Thestatusquo]

Panzer is a bad lynch in my mind.

[bird1111]

Checking in, need to reread.

[Cpt_Fantastic]

hi