mini1510 PAUL WALKER MEMORIAL flights of angels sing thee to

[Majiffy]

Cool story.

Why didn't you announce L-1 yesterday?

[Desperado]

Vote: Majiffy

Why are you so desperate to mislynch me? I honestly can't believe I'm still alive right now.

[Desperado]

Soooo I had no idea that Telo was at L-1.

Discuss.

dat guilty conscience

I don't think anyone was going to be upset that you hammered him. That doesn't seem like something town-Majiffy would feel the need to defend himself from, let alone pre-emptively.

And then trying to pass the buck to TSO for not announcing L-1??? Telo went from L-2 to lynched in less than a page.

I'm done with compromise, scumJiffy dies today.

[Majiffy]

Vote: Majiffy

Why are you so desperate to mislynch me? I honestly can't believe I'm still alive right now.

Yes, seeing that absolutely no one was interested in lynching you, I decided to keep you around to tunnel all game. That's a totally awesome scum plan that won't backfire at all considering all the heat I'm getting for pushing you.

dat guilty conscience

Well, we

did

quicklynch a PR. Are you saying you

don't

feel guilty?

[T S O]

Cool story.

Why didn't you announce L-1 yesterday?

You didn't check was Telo at L-1. You hammered, intending to pass the blame to me. It won't work.

[Grimgroove]

522 and 525 are dreadful.

But let me get to yesterday's business first.

[Marquis]

majiffy reminds me of me... and then again not me

[Grimgroove]

Nooo I should of died instead of slandaar. I bet it's all GG was fault he would be the one to most likely kill slandaar.

VOTE: GG

I should post things like this more often.

Grimgroove, you've suummarised pretty well that Mara is an inconsistent and odd player.

Why is she scum, as opposed to this?

You've shown all the faults in her playstyle, but you haven't shown us why they're scummy.

I think I've shown there's more at play than faults in playstyle. Don't you agree that the lack of an explanation for the BigTerp challenge (why him?) is scummy? How can there NOT be an explanation? Not a single argument?

[Grimgroove]

I've got a theory on Majiffy and his actions of today and long story short of it: I don't think he's scum. I'm actually failry certain he's town. But I don't want to divulge anything more for now.

[Grimgroove]

@pieguyn:

First question: What was your motivation for running to AK's defense like that?

I'm still fine with lynching Marquis or Telo. ofc I'm definitely fine with lynching Grim

I'd prefer to ask you this in real-time, since this would definitely give you away, but ok: give me your reasons why you would, "of course", be fine with lynching me. Bullet points preferable. No "buts" and "ifs".

A reason, but 1. meta, 2. comes with a waffle.

weren't you defending the usage of past games earlier to sort people? That's the definition of meta. Now it seems you think meta isn't a valid reason for pushing someone? 0.0

This is entirely different. I never thought of using meta as a reason to push anyone. I defended meta as a good way of getting a personal feeling of people, getting a first, personal impression. But you can not, can NEVER, expect meta to be enough of a reason for other people to follow suit. And this expectation defines AK's case against me. A combination of some mysterious meta hanging in the air, and the coasting off a townread stemming from their Gladiation shenanigans.

And what is AK's meta reason? Have you seen it? No. It has still yet to be expressed by AK, as to what that reason exactly is. All you guys got was some mysterious reference of "her partner" having noticed "something" about my play. Ony to later withdraw from that position again. And then later return to it. If this isn't opportunistic scum-hopping ased on a convenient non-argument, I don't know what is.
I can already guess what the meta-argument is, but I'll give them the honour of emberassing themselves.

Desperado did not post in between this vote and the earlier waffle. This is the summum of mechanical.

IMO arguments based just on votes aren't valid. it's one thing to say someone is voting someone who they're townreading, or if the vote is conducive to a lynch. but IMO just moving their votes with no explanation, or voting someone who's not necessarily the person they're talking to atm, is not a scumtell and I find myself doing that a lot when I wanna pressure multiple slots.

Well, IMO you are wrong. That vote was mechanical. I will grant you this was not the strongest point of my case, but it is a genuine impression I had and that I feel would resonate with others reading that passage objectively.

BigTerp's VT claim pointed to BigTerp being town. Like I said at the time, BigTerp seeing his dire position, would at least try to out a powerclaim as scum. The fact he didn't actually made his VT claim really strong.

this seems subject to WIFOM. and it happened after she already challenged him. what other option does she have, vote herself? @_@

I don't blame her for not voting herself. Hell, I was on BigTerp's wagon as well, for foolishly considering AK more of a conftown.
I blame her for considering BigTerp's VT-claim as an argument towards him being scum, which I find an impossible leap to make. That VT-claim made him more town, for reasons already explained, and AK's statement it didn't make him more town suunds more like someone intent to portray conviction rather than someone who genuinely reached a logical conclusion. In short: she was playing stupid. So she can say "oops" after it all happened more convincingly.

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: Amethyst Kitty


Case on pieguyn tomorrow. Tired.

[Grimgroove]

majiffy reminds me of me... and then again not me

Oh. HEY!!! Why haven't you been vigged yet?

This person can also be lynched as far as I'm concerned.

[Desperado]

Vote: Majiffy

Why are you so desperate to mislynch me? I honestly can't believe I'm still alive right now.

Yes, seeing that absolutely no one was interested in lynching you, I decided to keep you around to tunnel all game. That's a totally awesome scum plan that won't backfire at all considering all the heat I'm getting for pushing you.

When the alternative is that you're playing this poorly as town, yes.

dat guilty conscience

Well, we

did

quicklynch a PR. Are you saying you

don't

feel guilty?[/quote]

Town Ascetic hardly qualifies as a PR. And we were what, 8 hours to the deadline? Were you going to unvote if he claimed straight Town Ascetic?

[pieguyn]

@pieguyn:

First question: What was your motivation for running to AK's defense like that?

nice misrep, I never intended to defend AK. I pointed your logic out cause it was relevant to my case on you and I saw some similarity to your logic on me. in fact I would have preferred if AK had posted herself before I mentioned it so I could first see what she said herself, but I wasn't sure if I could post again until the deadline...

I'm still fine with lynching Marquis or Telo. ofc I'm definitely fine with lynching Grim

I'd prefer to ask you this in real-time, since this would definitely give you away, but ok: give me your reasons why you would, "of course", be fine with lynching me. Bullet points preferable. No "buts" and "ifs".

your use of IMO false logic. also you calling me opportunistic is making me watch out a lot o.o the "ofc" was there to differentiate between you, my new read, and the two reads I still had from D1, given I was mostly focusing on you then.

This is entirely different. I never thought of using meta as a reason to push anyone. I defended meta as a good way of getting a personal feeling of people, getting a first, personal impression. But you can not, can NEVER, expect meta to be enough of a reason for other people to follow suit. And this expectation defines AK's case against me. A combination of some mysterious meta hanging in the air, and the coasting off a townread stemming from their Gladiation shenanigans.

And what is AK's meta reason? Have you seen it? No. It has still yet to be expressed by AK, as to what that reason exactly is. All you guys got was some mysterious reference of "her partner" having noticed "something" about my play. Ony to later withdraw from that position again. And then later return to it. If this isn't opportunistic scum-hopping ased on a convenient non-argument, I don't know what is.
I can already guess what the meta-argument is, but I'll give them the honour of emberassing themselves.

I don't blame her for not voting herself. Hell, I was on BigTerp's wagon as well, for foolishly considering AK more of a conftown.
I blame her for considering BigTerp's VT-claim as an argument towards him being scum, which I find an impossible leap to make. That VT-claim made him more town, for reasons already explained, and AK's statement it didn't make him more town suunds more like someone intent to portray conviction rather than someone who genuinely reached a logical conclusion. In short: she was playing stupid. So she can say "oops" after it all happened more convincingly.

fair enough

[pieguyn]

still not sure about TSO/Desp/Majiffy. at first thought they look town, but I'm starting to second guess it. I'll have to go back and look over them again

looking back on Telo's wagon, I'm starting to look at Windblown a bit. the way he posted on D2 seems really odd for me

his first post on D2, he makes the statement that Garmr x Grim is town v. town and then justifies it in the next post, nothing suspicious there. then he's asking a question to AK, nothing suspicious there either. however, his last two posts, after that, are pinging me a lot..

That does not look like a scum read. Yes I see you also mentioned him in #331 but you didn't put down a clear read there, you gave two options of "Generic is mafia, or mafia is using his reads (to frame him??)" I don't follow this at all.

@Telo: Regarding the part of #331 you mentioned (yes I missed that, whoops) - you are right in that it is now consistent with your scumreads although I do think your turnaround on Generic is just based on the fact that he finds you scummy so that in itself is a pretty faulty read. On another note the bussing thing with Marquis/Generic is getting a little ahead of yourself considering neither of them have flipped.

this was all the content and it all has to do with Telo. both of these posts were also when Telo had 2 votes on her (him, Generic)

the logic in the first post seems valid enough, but then there's the second post.

you are right in that it is now consistent with your scumreads although I do think your turnaround on Generic is just based on the fact that he finds you scummy so that in itself is a pretty faulty read.

the first sentence in the second post seems like scumpainting and a weird assumption to make

On another note the bussing thing with Marquis/Generic is getting a little ahead of yourself considering neither of them have flipped.

I can't see a logical thought process behind this at all. she was speculating about the possibility that they were bussing. the problem I see here is that weren't you doing the same thing in the first sentence? afaik, you were speculating that it could be based on the fact that Generic was scumreading her. 0.0

looking back on the first post, both posts are exclusively about Telo, and they're both essentially answering something Telo posted but then putting even more suspicion on her. this makes me think his main intention was just trying to further the Telo wagon.

[pieguyn]

Also it seems to me that all the characters are limited to the first movie only.

Discuss further.

incorrect, Garmr said somewhere his character was from an entirely different series (drive I think), and Slandaar was a car 0.0

522 and 525 are dreadful.

But let me get to yesterday's business first.

I've got a theory on Majiffy and his actions of today and long story short of it: I don't think he's scum. I'm actually failry certain he's town. But I don't want to divulge anything more for now.

the hell? his two posts up there are dreadful, but apparently he's town? I don't understand your thought here.

also, I wanna know your opinion on the interactions between Majiffy and Desp

[kanyeknowsbest]

VOTECOUNT DAY 3 NUMBER 1

majiffy (2) - tso, despy
amethyst kitty (1) - grimgo

not voting - amethystkitty majiffy windblown marquis garmr pieguy
there are 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

deadline is in (expired on 2013-11-01 13:00:00)

[Windblown]

I'll try to post more indepth later - now that we lynched the two I suspected most I really have little to examine (although I feel I should investigate into AK more, and Marquis' lurking here does not remind me of his town-lurking. This experience is from another forum though, and I don't really like resorting to meta when I don't have to). Peopl

What am I scumpainting and what's weird about the assumption? I read her posts when I made it and it seemed like she didn't give much of a reason, besides the whole 'I usually have a read on you and I don't this game' (I think that's how it went).

re: bussing, a bit confused what point you're trying to make here. I commented on the fact that she thought they were bussing by saying that I think stuff about bussing without any flip from either is just speculation.

[pieguyn]

What am I scumpainting and what's weird about the assumption? I read her posts when I made it and it seemed like she didn't give much of a reason, besides the whole 'I usually have a read on you and I don't this game' (I think that's how it went).

you said the turnaround was based off Generic scumreading her, when she explained the real reason in 331

re: bussing, a bit confused what point you're trying to make here. I commented on the fact that she thought they were bussing by saying that I think stuff about bussing without any flip from either is just speculation.

my point is, saying "getting ahead of yourself" implies her speculation is a bad thing. but weren't you speculating that the reason she scumread Generic was that Generic was scumreading her? since she explained her reason, you assuming that's what the real reason is is just that, speculation. you're accusing her for doing the same thing you did 0.0

basically, why isn't it "getting ahead of yourself" when you claim her scumread on Generic was based on Generic scumreading her?

also, how come you didn't comment on anything besides Telo in your last two posts on D2?

[Majiffy]

Cool story.

Why didn't you announce L-1 yesterday?

You didn't check was Telo at L-1. You hammered, intending to pass the blame to me. It won't work.

It's standard protocol on this site to announce L-1 if you're placing it.

You've been here >6 months, you should know this.

majiffy reminds me of me... and then again not me

I'm a cooler, more experienced version of you.

You need to step up your game.

VOTE: Amethyst Kitty

We're about two days late for that. How about Desperado?

When the alternative is that you're playing this poorly as town, yes.

"Poorly".

Of the two wagons I've advocated, neither have flipped. I've made a deadline vote on the only viable wagon of the day.

Wherein my play do you see "poor"?

Town Ascetic hardly qualifies as a PR. And we were what, 8 hours to the deadline? Were you going to unvote if he claimed straight Town Ascetic?

Probably. Scum doesn't claim Ascetic. And in the frenzy of unvoting, I probably could have gotten a wagon on you.

incorrect, Garmr said somewhere his character was from an entirely different series (drive I think), and Slandaar was a car 0.0

Gamr probably didn't look into it enough. Mine is "also" from another series; at least the flavor only tells me the actor's real name and references a completely unrelated movie. However, the actor was a minor supporting character in the original 2001 F&F film.

Slandaar's car was a major plot point in the first movie.

[Majiffy]

Also curious what Slandaar's actual role was.

[Grimgroove]

also, I wanna know your opinion on the interactions between Majiffy and Desp

TvT, as I said numerous times before. Are you even reading?

My opinion shifted a bit though. Where I first thought this abbreviation signified Town vs Town, I am getting more convinced we're dealing with a Tard vs Town-situation right now, and moving to a Tard vs Tard one if this doesn't stop soon. But still, TvT.

What I propose both involved parties do is the following:

1/ Look at the discussion between Generic and Telo, which we now know to be a TvT.
2/ Look at the useful information this discussion has produced.

After they have seen during point 2 that the result is "nothing", they will hopefully realize that if they are wrong about eachother, which I sincerely think they are, this will leave us with this same ball of "nothing" in the next stage. The next stage being day 4. Does it sound like a good idea to have "nothing" on day 4?

Now, of course, the involved parties being convinced that they are scum, will not agree with this plan. As a constructive way out of this I propose they do the following:

1/ Make a comprehensive list of arguments they have against each other.

After this, this comprehensive list might may convince others that their case makes sense and is not just the senseless fight I'm looking at now (that's what's in it for them), or they will realize themselves that, in the end, they don't have as much on each other as they first thought and move on (that's what's in it for us).

Regardless of the conclusion, after this they should AT LEAST look at the other slots in this game. Generic has made himself useless because all he's done this game that I can remember is get on Telo's back and stay on it. What does that leave us with now that he's dead? Nada. Zilch.

tl;dr: Their tunnels are unconstructive and look like an e-penis-fight.

@Majiffy: Why is it too late to lynch Amethyst Kitty?
And in case you were wondering, you are the "tard" in the current Tard vs Town. That "argument" where Desperado didn't state it was an L-1 is truly abysmal. Using the absence of that notification to explain a hammer you seem to be apologizing for, but at the same time you admitting to have preferred over a no-lynch, even makes you look scummy. The only reason why I think it doesn't make you look scummy is because if for anyone, the "too scummy to be scum"-argument applies to you. I don't use it as a general guideline but in this case I can't help but do so.

[Majiffy]

@Majiffy: Why is it too late to lynch Amethyst Kitty?
And in case you were wondering, you are the "tard" in the current Tard vs Town. That "argument" where Desperado didn't state it was an L-1 is truly abysmal. Using the absence of that notification to explain a hammer you seem to be apologizing for, but at the same time you admitting to have preferred over a no-lynch, even makes you look scummy. The only reason why I think it doesn't make you look scummy is because if for anyone, the "too scummy to be scum"-argument applies to you. I don't use it as a general guideline but in this case I can't help but do so.

Because the only proper time to lynch AK was d1 when she made the gladiator. As of now I don't see it worthwhile to lynch.

Also I think

you're

the "tard" here. TSO placed the L-1 vote, not Desperado. And my argument for why Desperado is scum has been well-defined and well-ignored by a majority of the gamestate.

I am right, Desperado is scum, and we should have lynched him 2 days ago.

[Grimgroove]

Because the only proper time to lynch AK was d1 when she made the gladiator. As of now I don't see it worthwhile to lynch.

"Worthwhile"? What do you mean by "worthwhile"? Do you townread AK?

And ok, the argument was about T S O and not Desperado, but it doesn't make it less stupid. You said yourself Telo was the only viable wagon at the time. What would an L-1-announcement have changed?

Also, if you didn't know it was L-1, there was a high chance your own vote would have been an L-1 considering the fast accumulation of votes. Why didn't you bother to check, so that you could announce it in case your own vote was an L-1? You didn't. Your argument is not only stupid, it's hypocritical.

Please enumerate your arguments against Desperado.

[Majiffy]

An L-1 announcement would have led to a claim which would have probably led to a dissolved wagon which means I would have had a chance to get a Desperado wagon going.

All of this I've already said. Are you reading?

Desperado was caught fabricating reads. When caught on it, his answer was to OMGUS. When pressed on his OMGUS reaction, his answer was "TownMajiffy would have dropped this argument by now".

He isn't town.