Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Sir Bastion]

hail!

vote: Macros

cause I'm a fan of Macross and your name looks like a spelling mistake!

[Sir Bastion]

and the ninja posting changes nothing?

[Sir Bastion]

Vote: Garmr

Not sure I like the tone of the double post. It seems like he's trying to minimize the impact of being third on the rvs wagon.

Vote: Axxle

for reaching

man, i'm very rusty at the old mafia game, been out of practice for over a year but there is a word for this here.

what was it?


involved a type of vehicular transportation

Ahh yes

so

unvote, vote: GuthrieGov

[Sir Bastion]

@GuthrieGov Yes I do feel the vote had an air of bussing around it.


@Maxous have you played with thor before?


and on to page 2!

[Sir Bastion]

damnit Garmr

[Sir Bastion]

cause nothing has contradicted that impression in the 23 posts that have followed

[Sir Bastion]

Even if it wasn't in the early stages of gameplay, I don't see how it looked like bussing any more than anyone voting for anyone else.

so would you have voted axxle?

[Sir Bastion]

you should

at least its something to do as I wait for more important replies.

meanwhile quick question to you. Have you ever played with Maxous before?

[Sir Bastion]

I'll bother to explain why I find you scummy the instant you actually manage to justify the bussing question Tool fielded you instead of desperately trying to avoid answering it by trying to get into a side debate with me.
Hint: I also may have just explained my reasoning anyway...if you can read between the mountain of subtlety there, so you should answer Tool's question now regardless.

I guess its rather pointless not to answer tool's question, if you've put your weight behind it. Yes I did sidetrack it though not originally intentional he did a EBWOP post after I responded initially and on further thought I decided not to return to the point until other voices had chimed in.

What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner. So I think you'd have to see something pretty convincing at this stage in the game to think something is bussing. Otherwise, you could say any post of one person voting for another was bussing.

Actually I wouldnt call it a scumtell but the number of times I have found that scum in games I've played have directly interacted with each other during the RVS of a game is higher then the number of times they havnt, usually an RVS vote or mocking each other.

Regardless of the little logic. But bussing early partner wagons is actually somewhat logical on the first day as they more often tend to be the ones that fall apart the easiest. I know this from personal experience because I have more often then not been the first proper wagon for almost every game I've played and those wagons have never led to a lynch. Now with the exception of one of them I was always town in those wagons (Thor may remember the one I was scum cause he ended up lynched instead of me, though that game is not a good comparison).

Unless I'm missing something. Why did you think it looked like bussing, outside of the fact that one voted for the other?

The reason for me dropping the very early bus comment was because I thought Guthrie's post was very short and direct. almost read like an indirect scolding. Nothing more to it, deep as a puddle. There as much weight on such a notion as anything else so far this game.

[Sir Bastion]

Bastion's point of busing is wrong. If he used the word distancing,

noted and when this is all over I look back and laugh.

However, to say that two players are distancing he'd have to have a scum read on BOTH of them, or be looking back at interactions between a living player and a confirmed dead scum.[.quote]

assuming I dont?

[Sir Bastion]

Dates shouldn't be used to judge a players experience, the number of games they've played should.

Playing clueless is very short term thinking for a scum player.

[Sir Bastion]

Page 3

[Sir Bastion]

Foiled again!

Page 1 has 24 posts but page 2 has 25

Mafiascum website lacks logic

[Sir Bastion]

Well first

unvote

Vote: GuthrieGov

correctly done this time

I don't have QUITE as much time this morning to address everything that happened considering how quick this game has moved in a short time so I'll address each point briefly, as I see it. I'll comb through everything later to put a more cohesive case together on who I believe are the most likely scum(s).

assuming I dont?

As of post 16 I'm almost positive that a town player wouldn't have a scum read on both of them. DO YOU?

I disliked Axxle's post I didnt like Guthrie's follow up, and since Guthrie hasnt seem to cop on to it yet, Yes the reason I havnt budged on this is because Axxle hasnt posted. it's as deep as a puddle but until I find deeper waters I'll stick by it.

Ice you were correct that I should have called it distancing, but since guthrie actually voted I tried to be a little git and be all clever with my vote post. though its odd that term itself has had more of an impact on this discussion then the circumstances, you stated yourself that if I had said distancing instead of bussing I would have been right, but I was wrong because I used the word bussing instead. Bussing is distancing, but it is distancing using a vote (which makes my use of it technically correct) though that vote tends to be the one that brings the hammer.

[Sir Bastion]

Oh and Guthrie

Do you think I'm scum voting you or do you think I'm stupid town?

[Sir Bastion]

axxle since you are posting do you feel my reactions are scum motivated or stupid town?

[Sir Bastion]

See now this is why I like to hold onto my vote, bandwagon fever two days in.

huh...

You dont like that a wagon has jumped to L-2 very quickly due in part to your own vote.

yet doesnt unvote


why?

[Sir Bastion]

Garmr Thor asked you earlier who you thought was scum on your wagon

Could you give us a breakdown of those on your wagon and your thoughts of them (just the wagon)

so its:

Zakk
Axxle
TCold
Albert
Macros

[Sir Bastion]

I'd give the waffling debate attempt, but not so sure about the misrepping (perhaps its the waffle thats making my eyes glaze over and not see it, so ridicule away)

but since you are voting each other I'm being forced to carefully work through it again.

So I hate you both.

[Sir Bastion]

Its nice that Thor can be so helpful, even if a bit rude.

Looking over, I wouldnt call misrep, I'd say slandaar was reaching to begin with when he pushed toolenduso initially on overexplaining and he's fumbled over himself in the long drawn out waffling debate with you. And to be fair Tool's *conclusion* is buried in a paragraph and not presented as QED at the end like your apple.

But thats all beside the point because I'm more curious about this:

Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

huh...

So you know you and thor getting into a wall war is the mafiascum equivalent to the battle of the Somme and it would end up with you voting each other (which has happened)

and yet:

Sure.

Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.

Now let us figure this out; You know we don't agree on anything so instead of letting me do what I do and catch the scum you are trying to come after me for posting something you think is wrong well that is what you should expect to happen when I am town.

I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.

In short: You are being very superficial.

What do you think is my biggest scumtell? list a few if you like.

You practically begged him to do so.

You vote for him for fake scumhunting, but as far as I can tell you have intentionally started a wallpost fight and pulled him away from scumhunting.

scum trying to keep a strong town player tied up in pointless irrelevance?

Might be.

unvote

Vote: Slandaar

[Sir Bastion]

To those questioning my vote, Garmr asked me to, so I obliged. As I said earlier (not post hunting) I push players to pressure them to get a response, if no response, or in this case satisfactory response is forthcoming, THEN I vote for them to squeeze more. Nothing he has said or done since has pulled him down the ladder so my vote stays.

This is not about justifying your vote, this is about your actions after it. Specifically post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5374607 what was that for? If you still think he's guilty why were you complaining about a wagon forming quickly off your vote?

If you were worried about a wagon you should have acted when it jumped to L2.

you didnt. Yet you still complained.

If you were not worried about a wagon then that post shouldnt exist.

Instead we have you saying something but not acting on it.

Frankly it looks like a post from someone who knows Garmr is going to flip town and is getting his day 2 *

But he pushed me to vote for him and I said it was a bad idea but then *sniff* these other guys *sniff* they voted him and it was all so very sudden and the wagon got out of control *sniff

* defence.

[Sir Bastion]

hmmm

I dont believe in the misrep, I do think though despite his claims otherwise Slandaar has been the one that has dragged this into the end result we have:

You claim Thor iniatiated the wallposts of doom yet a casual look back at the two of you in iso paint a different picture:

Thor's first raises this issue in post 60 it is 1 of numerous points he makes about a number of players, including a vote on me.

you directly respond to him in 71

He responded to you in post 75 the important thing to note here, is not only did he respond to you but he then asked for your input on issues elsewhere. Specifically he wanted your input on me.

Your response in post 88 can be considered the first major wall o text in the game. It is solely focused on thors single post (unlike earlier where thor was responding to multiple people) and most importantly while you call foul or correct him on his logic line by line, you completely sidestep giving input on issues elsewhere.

Thor's response in post 91 followed up by what I still feel despite your claims otherwise is you goading him futher into this logic roundabout in post 114


This paints a very different picture to your claim when you voted Thor

Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way. Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

Thor is fake scumhunting.

you say you and thor knew getting into a argument over your or his logic would end in disaster and that thor went full into it and thats what makes him scummy.

but that didnt happen, you initiated this spat in post 88, you started dissecting and focusing on this one issue, you ignored requests for input elsewhere in the game and frankly a quick look at your ISO shows you Have not talked about anything else. Yet you are blaming thor for this.


Makes no sense

[Sir Bastion]

you're so boring

[Sir Bastion]

Not that it really matters but; no. It starts at 75 which is where Thor asks a bunch of questions, I respond with a wall hence the point in my example.

I addressed post 75 in which he specifically asked for your opinion on a different issue which you ignored.

[Sir Bastion]

Well him and tool.

which is one in the same issue. Do you have an opinion on any other player in the game? How do you feel about the leading wagon on Garmr for example?

Your point in a nutshell is I posted some walls which is at best terrible and I didn't fulfill peoples requests which is pretty bad to do as scum but we will call that null for arguments sake.

my point is you are blaming (and voting) thor for a logic fight which frankly you started.

[Sir Bastion]

What Issue?

I am fairly sure I responded to everything in that post.

at the end of post 75

Also, a read on Bastion would be nice.

[Sir Bastion]

Don't care for the wagon.

what about the people on it.

Do you think its a town led wagon or do you think its got scum in it.


and since you are here, what is the motivation for scum thor to get into a logic fight with you so early in day 1?

[Sir Bastion]

I too am getting a false bravado feel from Thor after a preliminary read through. I will have to go read his other games as well. Garmr changing his vote to me makes me feel even more satisfied with my vote on him. I'll comment more in depth about these situations and more I noticed, today or tomorrow. Before the end of the 3-day weekend for sure.

why does him voting you make you feel he's scum?

[Sir Bastion]

Has the site meta changed since I was last here?

Everybody seems to tight lipped on what they are thinking. It's like getting blood from a stone to get thoughts from most of you.

I completely disagree with Slandaars case against thor and I am mixed on the Albert's case against Thor. I was initially going to discard Albert's case that Thor was acting out of form for his townplay as my brief experiences playing with him had him down as one of those force of nature players who played every game the same way, sticking close to his namesake head butting everybody norse style. (I think I've only had one game with him, but he might have been in another game with me that was lost in the great tiger crash of 2012)

But I quick recap of that game does show some truth to Albert's comment that town Thor does not appear to normally make calls to lynch. But the game I played him with was a unique circumstance. So I will review the three games Thor provided.

I am somewhat settled by Slandaars responses, I would not consider him town yet and I still do feel he is putting far too much blame on thor for the battle of the walls which I still disagree with him on.

other major suspicions I have is Axxle, Macros and Guthrie. Sadly the lurking/absence of Axxle has stalled any development on him and guthrie has gone and done the same. Macros I feel looked very bad for his actions involved the Garmr wagon. I dont see why a town player needed to be pushed to make his vote and I find the whine post he followed it up with to be very suspicous.

I guess outside them most people fall into the null catagory, the closest I have to people I would be comfortable in saying they are playing like town is only Iceninja. I dont think there is much of case for Garmr to be scum, but he hasnt reassured me as a competent player and toolenduso appears well meaning but neutral. He does confirm with Thor that Slandaar misrepped him, but he doesnt act on it, instead keeping his vote on albert. Which is curious.

Frankly if the mod has more posts then you then you then you are failing in participating as a town player so there are five players in this game that are being useless and need to get their acts together.

[Sir Bastion]

I did. Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum. You probe, you ask questions, you make statements like "Let's see where this wagon goes". This is similar to what I'm doing in this game (my vote on Garmr or Slandaar). However, here, you don't do those things, you jump to a per-determined conclusion and aren't interested in anything except controlling the lynch. I'll repeat it again for you. Your certainty on Slandaar (ie: the language you're using, your posts, the tone) doesn't match that of a townie in early game interested in breaking the narrative.

So after a nap (have some patience Thor) I got down this morning to read through Thor's iso in the three games he linked to see if the above case by Albert has much weight.

But after the briefest momentary glance I had to stop and come back to this:

Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum.

Yes, I do.

Let's just go to the first game I linked.

All your votes are currently useless. Either start making *amazing* cases on your chosen target, or move somewhere useful.
Sheeping me is allowed.

There's one.

I'm going to go ahead and lob 'not reading thread' as another reason people should sheep me on Slaine.

There's another.

What other lies are you basing this case on?

That's page 30. Being certain of something on page 30 is a long shot from page 10, with the amount of information we've both seen from Slandaar.

uhmm

of the three games, Thor was only present in one at page 10 and he was scum in that game.

Also that game has this:

Unvote: MattP
Vote: Pitoli

Also willing to policy lynch the Stupendous Man/KBW slot.
Also willing to help lynch Majiffy.

So there is no meta example yet of thor scum calling for a wagon, but there is an example of thorscum being open to multiple wagons.

So to double check things here.

You dismiss thor's defence because it was a post that was 30 pages into the game.

yet there is no example in the ones given of Thor town on page 10 habits...so how did you come to your original conclusion?

We have first hand example of thorscum acting the opposite to what you suggested, though oddly he vanishes for 15 pages after that so again its a poor example.

As for the remaining two town games

1 he started at page 28 which you have dismissed as too late in the game. Which is odd cause he replaced in on both games

the second he's town doctor and arrives after page 10 also. But...

1. Thor did stick to the same wagon for almost all of day 1.

2. That game was as far as I can see very different circumstances as a player had claimed a pr in day 1 and the majority of that day 1 is defined by discussions on if one should lynch said day 1 claim.

3. His defence of the page 30 game entry (that he doesnt read the previous pages) also stands true in this game as he also refuses the read the previous 12 pages.

Your meta is bollocks.

Did you even look at these games?

Did any of the people sheeping you look at these games?

The circumstances in each of them are completely at odds with our current state.

[Sir Bastion]

I'm not interested in Thor's meta.

I said his play was scummy and he says that's how he plays as town. I asked him to show me,

and his most recent games are all invalid because he replaces in late, is scum, etc.

The meta of Thor was for him to say "here's proof I do this as town".

He's hasn't shown this. You can't take his meta and go you didn't do this one scummy thing therefore you're not scum. Not how it works.

no you didnt

Go ahead and link me to your last 3 games, Thor.

If you wanted a comparison closer to what our situation you could have asked him for a game where he was town from the beginning, or you could have gone and looked yourself.

If the meta is irrelevant to this argument why are you relying on it so much?

I've got a big problem with Sir Bastion for implying that I'm attacking Thor for meta, when in fact, that's actually what his defence rests on.

Read the first two games Thor has linked. Thor is scum.

[Sir Bastion]

vote macros

frankly none of the cases put forth from albert, slandaar or thor have any value imo. Albert's original case relies too much on him appealing to authority and I frankly feel it's only gained weight because of the claim that thor's play is not consistent with the three other he posted.

Slandaar has gone so far up his own arse about his *special relationship* with thor that you two need to get a room. I have actually backed from thinking you're scummy and thinking that you are over reacting to a fantasy you have created in your own head, your last post seals it.

Thor I dont think the misrep is enough for a lynch. I dont even think its that bad of a misrep. Unless you believe misreps are scummy period then I think this thought process is dried up.


So I'm going to go back to what I really want to know.

Why a town player needs the person he is accusing of being scum to dare him to vote. Why he complains about a wagon growing too quickly but doesnt get off. For a player that pushes for a response he has a poor record of following up and an even poorer record explaining his own actions.

He's also been online (Last Visited: 14 Oct 2013, 08:24) so I want answers.

[Sir Bastion]

Albert's original case relies too much on him appealing to authority and I frankly feel it's only gained weight because of the claim that thor's play is not consistent with the three other he posted.

I'll repeat again: the only reason his games were brought up was because he used "meta" as a defence. He posted some games and failed to show any correlation. I asked for the 3 most recent games because he said "I just completed a newbie where I did exactly this! Can link if you want!".

Zac needs to post more about other things in the game so I can get a decent read.

I get your point, Thor brought up previous games first.


My point is remove this post here and this and this and this and finally this would not have happened.

your original case boiled down to *I've played this game more then anyone else here (except thor) and I say he is far too certain therefore scummy!* which was post 219. Thats a weak appeal to authority with little else of substance.

We went 50 more posts almost and nobody in this game had time for that thought process.

Throw in you saying *He doesnt act like this in his other games he linked* and suddenly the thor wagon is the hottest thing in town.

So you may not think the *meta* has anything to do with your case, but it has clearly brought a lot of other people over. So if you are of the same position as me that there is no meta to speak of, perhaps your energy should be focused on those who sheeped you because suddenly your case appeared to be *meta*.

[Sir Bastion]

any further input max?

[Sir Bastion]

eat quickly

[Sir Bastion]

Zakk you are not that important

[Sir Bastion]

Albert why did you feel you needed to *teach* Thor a lesson in this game?

[Sir Bastion]

Albert you have this amazing ability of answering a question about axxle by talking about Thor...

[Sir Bastion]

Calling to lynch a Lurker huh...

vote albert

A Thor case with no base in this game + pointless vote = not scum hunting = scum!

[Sir Bastion]

Albert why have you not addressed the players who supported your case against Thor despite you yourself saying it was bogus?

[Sir Bastion]

Everyone else is some shade of null.

there's not a lot of everyone else, that's almost the entire game

but much improved over the previous player in this slot.

Albert's at L-2 now.

ABR is fairly town I think.

aside from him coming to your defence against Thor do you have any other reasoning as to why you feel he is town. Do you have any suggestions as to why a town albert would fabricate a case?

[Sir Bastion]

Slandaar can you let that bloody misrep bollocks between you and thor just settle. Even if it is just for one post and try oh god please try and interact with other players here.

ANSWER MY DAMN QUESTION!

[Sir Bastion]

I hate you so much

[Sir Bastion]

I also dont get why you are using *not wanting to read meta* for not giving any input on the whole Albert claiming his case was nonsense.

Here Albert says it himself:

I've got a big problem with Sir Bastion for implying that I'm attacking Thor for meta, when in fact, that's actually what his defence rests on.

Albert's original case relies too much on him appealing to authority and I frankly feel it's only gained weight because of the claim that thor's play is not consistent with the three other he posted.

I'll repeat again: the only reason his games were brought up was because he used "meta" as a defence. He posted some games and failed to show any correlation. I asked for the 3 most recent games because he said "I just completed a newbie where I did exactly this! Can link if you want!".

Zac needs to post more about other things in the game so I can get a decent read.

You dont need to read any meta. Since Albert claims its not part of his case, but thor's defence. So really if you are still dogging for Thor you probably should be reading meta to understand (what Albert believes anyway) his defence....so you got this backwards arseways and generally wrong.


and in case you have some disease that makes it impossible to read Albert's original post saying it was all bollocks:

Thor, my case on you is made up.

The reason I made it up is because I wanted to teach you that if you go against me, this is what will come of it. It's not wise for you to go against me. I'm stronger. I scumhunt better. I get who I want lynched more often than you do. Remember that. Tell your QT buddies if you're scum.

Unvote Thor

I'll revisit this vote when I deem it appropriate. For now, I want to let you do your dance in front of the new players.

Vote Axxle

Now stop wasting time!

Well show me this misrep I assume you know what it is Ice.

ffs...are you blind to my posts?

Hello *wave*

We need you to stop being useless and actually add to this game in a meaningful and productive manner.

Thank you very much honourable sir *bow*

[Sir Bastion]

.....


now you are just being an asshole.

[Sir Bastion]

no dont...

The misrep is such a pointless hole of nothingness. Can we please talk about something else.

[Sir Bastion]

ffs...are you blind to my posts?

I just don't see the need to repeat myself you can find it if you read my posts.

repeat that you are too lazy to look at meta so have no opinion? That's not helpful.

The only thing you have said involving Albert's reveal was to claim ICE was scum because of his reaction to it (or lack of). You've said nothing yourself about it except that he's town.

The part you can't should be obvious; He told you why he fabricated it; that is why he did it whatever his alignment.

I want your opinion. I'll get albert's own comments from himself. But getting you to talk about anything other then misreps is nigh impossible.

[Sir Bastion]

And literally noone knows the misrep so that kind of proves the point Elyse is being ridiculous

SB has no clue

, Ice vanished immediately.

Ok lets be simple about this. If you think I have no clue and that everything I've asked for has already been answered then just quote the posts you have given your reasoning why you think albert is town. It takes about the same amount of time as it takes you to cry your *the misrep is a lie* mantra over and over.

Cause despite your claims otherwise. I dont see anywhere in your ISO where you have said why you think albert is town.

I have seen no opinion from you about him admitting his case was made up.

[Sir Bastion]

*click* bang

[Sir Bastion]

but but but.

if he cant whine about the misrep then he might actually be expected to contribute to the game *dundundunnnnn*

[Sir Bastion]

Thor for all that is good in the world just do not reply. This goes for everyone else here too.

I like to think I am not alone in wanting Slandaar to address all the other questions and issues he has been ducking, so please let the misrep argument settle until tomorrow at least.

[Sir Bastion]

Just ignore him guys. Seriously. He will stop eventually.

Do you not think there are other issues he needs to address?

[Sir Bastion]

why dont you quote where you gave your reasoning on why you think albert is town or an opinion on him admitting his case was nothing?

[Sir Bastion]

wow we wasted over a page on that sh*te.

[Sir Bastion]

What's the case on garmr again?

[Sir Bastion]

I want to give everyone who is undecided on my alignment, the chance to interact with me.

Ask me anything.

since your vote is now on a new slot where will you go now?


Also there is a backlog of questions from me about those who supported your case and why you voted a lurker (an almost worthless vote).

[Sir Bastion]

OK Garmr I have a question for you.

Why would Thor change the wording and thus the meaning of what I have said to invent a case on me if he were town?

you do know the more you drag this on the harder you are going to make it if a genuine case against thor comes out to have it stick.

[Sir Bastion]

I want to give everyone who is undecided on my alignment, the chance to interact with me.

Ask me anything.

since your vote is now on a new slot where will you go now?


Also there is a backlog of questions from me about those who supported your case and why you voted a lurker (an almost worthless vote).

When the slot starts posting content, I'll move my vote to somewhere as of yet undetermined.

I voted a lurker because I have limited information on the game and it would help me to cross off known unknowns.

My argument that Thor doesn't care about scumhunting is an opinion. I found facts to support it,

sure, but it could go either way depending on how you look at it. It's all WIFOM. It's sad that Slandaar is being ignored. I think Thor is scummy, although I'm not certain what he would flip. If I did go through with my gut suspicions and he ended up flipping town, that would be on me.

I find that the players in this game are fairly whimsical and could go with whatever lynch, as long as it isn't them. So I may end up lynched. Maybe. I claim vanilla townie.

I'm sorry but this is a far cry from earlier when you said:

Thor, my case on you is made up. The reason I made it up is because I wanted to teach you that if you go against me, this is what will come of it. It's not wise for you to go against me. I'm stronger. I scumhunt better.

So are you saying now that there is a case for thor being scum?

Also can we get an opinion on the two people that voted thor based on your case?

On Slandaar he is not being ignored, he is though annoying a lot of players in this game if its intentional or not it does drive people to ignore him.

The issue of the *misrep* is currently a convoluted black hole. On its own it merits nothing, any sensible player town or scum would have dropped the issue temporarily for a point later on where it can be attached to a more effective case. Right now though he is making thor look better by his own actions alone. So if Thor is scum Slandaar is in fact helping him. Regardless of how much he whines.

I've already made my post (ages ago) on the misrep issue. Do I think Slandaar misrep? yes, but I dont think it was intentional, tool's *conclusion* was buried in a block of text and can be easily missed (just as much as I can miss a half line/half arsed justification from slandaar on why he thinks your town) that happens. If Thor had still been voting Slandaar and pushing to lynch him today based on the misrep over the last 2 pages then slandaar has a case for scummy behaviour. But he hasnt, the game has moved on. It looks worse for him to be clamping on to this point now when so much more important things are going on.


Garmr you are being an idiot on numerous levels right now.

[Sir Bastion]

Of course there is a case. A case is just opinion.

I said "I made it up" to provoke some reactions.

I'm not ready to throw him out on the street just based on that. He's not even my ideal lynch. Someone who didn't post content is more dangerous than Thor at this juncture.

I think the reactions (and lack of) have firmly and resoundly been delivered.

Honestly this is what I thought you were intending when you first made the revelation of nothingness but the sheer lack of follow up is what breaks this thought process. Voting a lurker? Not a comment on the reactions, just moving on?

If you are still waiting then you've waited too long.

As for lurkers being more dangerous on day 1...

no, I dont expect to claim to be a veteren mafia player like you and thor but I know lurkers on day 1 are not *dangerous*, scum lurking through day 1 are either not thinking far ahead or their partners have grasped the reigns to lead town. Either way day 2 is where they get the screws and if they are hiding in the shadow of a very active partner then they risk pulling their partner down with them.

You are always better to lynch an active player day 1, even if you tragically lynch a town player you still have a day's worth of interaction to examine and something to push the day 1 lurkers on.

Lynching a lurker day 1 in worse scenario gets you nothing but a dead townie and no info, you cant get very far examining a wagon on a lurker, essentially forcing us to repeat day 1 with a weaker town stance. best scenaio you lynch scum but have little or no follow ups.

[Sir Bastion]

By "made up", I mean exagerrate my confidence on him being scum.

Everything I said still stands. Anyone that it may have influenced is well justified in thinking so. But I do think most players here act more on emotion and gut reads than logic, so it's not so much as anything I said, but the wind blowing one way rather than another and they are OK with taking the path of least resistance.

George Orwell is applauding

[Sir Bastion]

Lurkers are dangerous. Even if they are town, they end up being replaced by players who are neither invested nor interested in reading the game, and they can make a capital mistake in LYLO. Typically, lurkers will not be NK'd. Scum are interested in framing town and will go after players with opinions. Or they will go for players who are either suspecting them or on the verge of suspecting them.

I think F16 will be offended by this post.


Hell as someone who replaces in a lot I am offended! I've replaced in and won the lylo of some games. For everyone who has done the good deed and replaced in please let me show you my boot!

You also appear to have a very limited perspective of scum.

[Sir Bastion]

And how certain are you that I am scum, SB?

right now you would be my strongest lead. I'd be foolish to say I was positive.

But your actions have been weak at best, downright counter productive at worst.


your original *case* against thor was weak as hell, you appealed to authority and your case was he was pushing on slandaar while ignoring other players.

Then we had the meta fubar which while you stand that it was only thor's defence, there is a clear line between support of your thor wagon and the post 252 which you used those games thor provided to attack his play in this game.

Then you claimed it was all made up, took a very untown position of doing it *to teach thor a lesson*

followed by a vote on a lurker (who's been replaced now and yet we still have no action from you)

throw in an early L-2 claim (which is null mostly cause of your first post)

and now we are rewriting the made up claim to whatever suits you right now.


If you are town you have been counter productive, a long with slandaar you have brought in some serious baggage with thor which has poisoned this game so far and I wouldnt be surprised if its revealed at the end that its the reason we've had players *requesting* replacements, not just dropping out, but actually saying *No I want out*

If you are scum I feel you are riding very heavily on the *scum wont do this* defence in the hope that your wagon will tire itself out and fall apart.

And I lean heavily with the scum cause, yes scum wouldnt do a lot of this, they'd have a bit more self control. But town wouldnt have done most of this either, frankly I dont know what sort of player would do half the nonsense you have spouted in this game.

I like how a big part of the *thor is scum* case is he's not scumhunting, but neither you or Slandaar have done much either. I think the most I've seen from slandaar is his case on iceninja (which would have merit if it wasnt so hypocritical)

So yes if I was to give it a number I'd say I'm 70% sure you are scum.

[Sir Bastion]

His like Tcold and ABR put together his Super scum. He has a big S on his cape.

TCold replaced out pretty fast only ever doing a few posts. This is typical TCold play so that's why I had him as nullish. I guarantee you if he stayed everyone's votes would be on him no matter his alignment. Plus his replacement seems pretty town.

ABR- Posts allot more information is more likely to slip as scum. Also while ABR shares some qualities with Zakk. Zakk has so more to lynch for like you said yourself all my points could be listed as TCold plus ABR combined. Zakk doesn't share as many things and has less points lurks more, more fluff. ABR produces content, doesn't lurk also doesn't put off reasons saying I will give them to you latter.

garmr what in gods name are you trying to say?

[Sir Bastion]

t's translatable and makes sense, you just need to wade through it a bit.
Basically he really hates lurkers and also feels Zakk is being intentionally dodgy when he does post.

Oooh he's talking about Zakk.

also did I miss Tcold replacing out?

he's been prodded. But not replaced yet.

[Sir Bastion]

F-16_Fighting_Falcon is TColds replacement right.

he replaced guthrie

[Sir Bastion]

@ABR - why do you think your case on me got as far as it did for what it was if I am scum?
Also, what pro-town end effect did you get out of it to make the lie worthwhile?

1) I already answered this at the beginning of the last page.

2) You're leading the town less and more people are posting content.

Huh, I'd say you've achieved the opposite on this point. Between your confusing play and Slandaars....well we know what that was. You've probably done more to make people less suspicious of thor then anything he's posted himself.



As for the *baggage* yes, it is an error in that comment. You did claim not to remember thor prior to this game.

But lines like this does seem to be about more then simply hunting scum:

The reason I made it up is because I wanted to teach you that if you go against me, this is what will come of it. It's not wise for you to go against me. I'm stronger. I scumhunt better. I get who I want lynched more often than you do. Remember that.

[Sir Bastion]

baggage:

Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way. Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

[Sir Bastion]

baggage:

Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way. Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

Well if you want to call meta baggage...

Heh.

Perhaps its just me, but expecting a player to act a certain way because you played against each other before is not meta.

[Sir Bastion]

Heh.

Perhaps its just me, but expecting a player to act a certain way because you played against each other before is not meta.

Its you.

'I expect X to be more loud as scum if scum here because I caught him lurking scum last time'

Meta.

"I expect X to avoid challenging me on this issue, because when me and X fight like this in the last game we get into such a hissy girly fight that one of us ended up lynched. So X will not challenge me even though he doesnt know if I'm scum or not he will leave me be and not question me or pressure me or come near me in any form because last time that ended badly for us "


Thats not meta.

[Sir Bastion]

EBWOP

My goal is not to make people suspicious of Thor. They need to make up their own minds about Thor.

As for the *baggage* yes, it is an error in that comment. You did claim not to remember thor prior to this game.

Exactly.

He is saying that you brought baggage into the game.
Read it as 'increased drama'
And not 'brought drama from a point in the past'

This post quoted above shows a complete misunderstanding, and lack of reading of this game.

Unvote, vote Thor

huh. I missed this.

People have been making up their own minds, but in the possible scenario that thor is scum you and slandaar have spent half this day feeding him ammunition to a) defend himself and b) keep this game focused away from him when necessary. Congratulations

We dont need you to help us make up our minds, most players in this game have been making up their own minds regardless of thor.

How many people followed Thor on to my wagon Zero

How many people followed Thor on to Slandaars wagon. Only 1, and my post putting down my vote I made clear I wasnt voting slandaar because of thor's misrep argument.

How many people followed you on to Thor's wagon. 2, straight after post 292, the one where you used the games thor provided as a contrast to his game here.

How many people followed thor on to your wagon. 4, but I think you'll find every one of them made very clear in their own words all the stupid stuff you've done that has warranted those votes.

So that means Thor has actually only led one wagon this game. Which is this one and to be fair you did do a lot of questionable actions to warrant it and it is the wagon that came *after* you supposably took the fight to thor and broke his control of this game to give us the lowly players free will. Doesnt quite fit.

You seem to have created some fantasy world where Thor had dominance over this game and you needed to break it, yet despite posting a lot and calling for speed lynches and crying misrep, very few players in this game have backed him up or sheeped him or much else.


As for his misunderstanding, I find it interesting and noted that he felt the need to answer for me, it's odd and I'll see where it'll fit in later.

Meanwhile you are still the scummiest player in this game




or the most deluded.

[Sir Bastion]

as in why he would go after you in the first place with a complicated-ish case when he could just EZ lynch Garmr or slandaar or someone.

OOO! OOO! Can I answer this using Alberts own words?

Scum are interested in framing town and will go after players with opinions. Or they will go for players who are either suspecting them or on the verge of suspecting them.

sorry couldnt resist.

Though I am saddened that Albert's gone back to voting thor, it's almost as if the last 10 pages never happened.

[Sir Bastion]

@Thor: odd question... but when was the last time you played a game with Slandaar?

[Sir Bastion]

Who are my partners? Someone who is wishy washy about my wagon, like IceNinja? Admittedly, IceNinja was saying that Thor was scummy without voting for him, maybe waiting for an opportunity to join the wagon later. But why would he resist bussing me at this stage? I already claimed VT. People are suspicious of me. Early wagon credit for IceNinja if he stays on my wagon.

Hell, even Thor could be my partner. His tactics for attacking me are extremely transparent. He's not making any effort in this game or thinking twice about lynching me. Does he really think that I would claim VT at L-2 as scum? For what? If you think I have a big ego, it must follow that you think that in my mind, I would have a massive impact on my team and that my team would be doomed without me. If that team is scum, it means that I would make a PR claim to stay alive. Not sacrifice myself. Not let my buddies bus me easily for town cred. Not questioning everyone and resisting so hard. That's what a team player does, right? Do I look like a team player to you? No, as scum, I feel like I'm even more responsible than my partners, because of my experience and my strategic way of doing things. I'd claim a PR and carry my team as far as I could until I was disproven. Or I'd at least take down a PR with me with a claim. But I claimed early, and VT.

Consider what happens if we lynch Thor and he's the scum. We instantly confirm several players as town, and this game will be easy.

Huh...

So there are so many possibilities for your scum partner, hell even one of the main people on your wagon could actually be your partner bussing you. Its a frightening world of *what if*

unless of course we reverse it and we lynch this other guy cause you know if he flips scum then its so blatantly obvious who's town then...

contradicting yourself much?

We lynch you and you flip scum *oh noes who's town and who's scum the possibilities are endless, hell Thor might even be my partner bussing me to control town*

We lynch Thor and he flips scum *Well obviously we are town cause we told you so*


How is it that you manage to say two conflicting points in the same post?

[Sir Bastion]

how does that make you obvious town if he flips scum?

[Sir Bastion]

f16 is vla

havingfitz and skelda are catching up (and considering that slandaar blows his top if you fail to properly classify the misrep case then catching up is rather important)

everyone else has to (different levels) chimed in on today and for the most part have made their beds.

though I'd agree with tool that Zakk is very lacking overall.

So unless someone is able to pull out a fantastic new case we are stuck waiting on the catch up or the end of the vla (which is later today).

[Sir Bastion]

f16 most of your links are not working (actually all of them I think)

[Sir Bastion]

still not working f16 from 150 onwards

I think at this point just let the players go look themselves. If they cant be arsed then its their own fault

[Sir Bastion]

Sorry for my posting drying up over the weekend.

But honestly we are pretty much waiting. Albert has stopped his foot in mouth posting for the most part, and I'm not sure how I should be reading the sudden massive silence. Though I guess he did say he was starting another game elsewhere.




It's nice to see a case from maxous but based on my own reading of garmr's posts I am against lynching him day 1 at least, in fact he would be one of the harder players to get me to lynch, I'd lynch a fair few other players before him.

Still reading. I have IceNinja, GuthrieGov/F-16, and TCold as townish, and Thor and Sir Bastion as scummish.
My mind on Garmr and toolenduso has changed somewhat. They look more likely to be town after continuing reading.

Unvote

if I am voting.

I notice that ABR and slandaar are both missing from this ever so brief list of reads from Zakk.



uhmm was a that a hammer?

[Sir Bastion]

yes

yes it was.

[Sir Bastion]

well timed, perhaps I can get it so my other game's night 1 starts when we hit day 2 here

[Sir Bastion]

this is straight forward

vote: Thor665

I am also deeply sorry for being wrong about Thor. I feel retarded and Albert is probably waving his fist at me in the dead QT.

nothing retarded about yesterday. Falcon was the smart one and his work paid off to give us a confirmed scum today on someone who regardless of what some might have thought would have been hard to pin down without some sort of night action.

But that I expect will be a discussion post game about a great many things, so for the sake of the current game, please save *I told you so's and Tsk bad town players* remarks until after we deal with the problem at hand.

In the meantime unless someone can magic a circumstance that shows that thor is not confirmed scum I suggest we treat him as such and move on to disecting yesterday in full with the new knowledge we have here and lynch him when we are happy that we have discussed day 1 and night 1 in full rather then quicklynching him and letting scum clog up day 3 with us chatting about day 1 leads and whatnots.

So can we get no more votes on thor please

, if we want to discuss today we must not give Thor or any of his buddies the opportunity to end the day early. I think 3 will suffice to keep him locked and ready to hung quickly when the time comes.

Which for me right now

FOS: Iceninja

his wishy washy attitude post alberts claim struck me as suspicous enough to keep an eye on him

Also

Well damn. OK. That sucks.

If there is *ever* a more universal day 2 scum tell in the world of mafia it's starting day 2 with this.

[Sir Bastion]

If I die tonight, go for ICEninja.

Vote: Ice

his other claim fits better.

first he made it after the one you linked (10 posts later)

secondly he specified if Albert flipped town he was going to check you.

If albert had flipped scum I expect he would have hide behind ice and we would be in a very different game right now.

[Sir Bastion]

Yeah, except he clearly hadn't settled on his thoughts because he was bouncing around and trying to give out final reads.
Also, I'm town. So, yeah, Falcon did something derpy. I'm guessing it's the semi-reasonable revert to the earlier suspicion rather than totally random hide.
Tell you what though, I won't call you a fool if you vow right now to lynch Ice tomorrow after my flip.

I find that hard to swallow.

Clearing you would have been the prime concern of any player in this game after day 1. I'm pretty sure you'll find that any player who had a similar ability would have checked you last night (and this is a call

not to reveal such results except in most dire of circumstances, we dont need confirmation

)

You're a strong player no one denies that and day 1 got very hung up with other players butting heads with you, cases got ridiculous and the day dragged, it would be insane not to clear you first and foremost so that day 2 didnt end up repeating such nonsense.


Falcon I will credit was clear in his motivations, which for me is the best credit you can give a town player

firstly he was well aware of the above dangers as he said so in this post:

As Albert himself shows, it goes both ways.

If Albert is scum, it will be difficult to get a wagon back on him later on

(possibly with Thor dead and Albert's detractors mislynched or killed). Albert's now a strong scumread. I want to lynch him today once Skelda and HavingFitz post their thoughts.

You would have been a very difficult person to deal with today. Falcon may have been talking about Albert in this case, but the thought process rings true for any player as capable as you or albert.


secondly Ice was a suspect with albert being scum. Every post he made on Ice being potential scum clearly tied him to albert:

In particular, this is BS.

You're at L-2. I highly doubt you'll end up quicklynched. I as well don't like all the AtE you've been putting out.

And just to remind people, deadline is actually coming up soon. We've got a few days, but

if someone wants to derail this wagon on ABR it had better be right now, and damn convincing

.

He wants the wagon derailed but doesn't want to accept responsibility.

Because I'm quite happy with either lynch. As of this moment, I'm more confident in ABR flipping scum, though not by much.

If town really wanted to swing and lynch Slandaar instead today (as I believe I've alluded to before) I'd be alright with that. There just doesn't seem like much momentum for that.

He keeps his vote on the leading wagon while posturing to switch to Slandaar is the opportunity shows up.

That's a more or less decent case for day 1, Max. Why didn't you push it?

Wants Maxx to push a case against someone other than Albert.

He is positioning himself to look good upon an Albert scumflip while posturing to remove his vote at any point.

This is a good wagon, likely on scum. I don't like ICEninja's constant efforts to subtly dismantle it. I am pretty sure Albert will flip scum and ICEninja is his buddy. If I die tonight, go for ICEninja.

VOTE: Albert B Rampage

before ICEninja pulls up more crap to try and dismantle it. HF and Skelda can post tomorrow.

All this points to a player who knew exactly what he was doing going into night 1. He wasnt derpy or unsettled.

[Sir Bastion]

I've never encountered a hider before. It gets fake claimed a lot, so I typically lynch anyone who claims to be one.

If that's the case then yeah Thor should be lynched today. Which makes me feel a lot better about Slandaar.

I agree with Bastion about not quick lynching Thor, though, and I'm quite happy with where my vote sits.

you agree with me on one point but you fail to show any interest in responding or discussing the issue that comes from that point.

We are not quick lynching Thor to discuss what night 1's results and the events of day 1

perhaps a bit more detail why you would feel garmr would be suspect numero 1 for you based on all the information we've collected?

[Sir Bastion]

I still don't see a vow about Ice.
Why aren't you willing to give me that since you're so sure about me?

I think you might need to back up and read my first post of day 2.

I dont need to make a vow to you because my intentions towards ICE are damn clear already.

And the day didn't go draggy because of me. it went draggy because Al decided to lie about a case, then reverse it, and then go back on me for nonsensical reasons. it's great now that we know he was...honest about his lying(?) but that doesn't make the fault of yesterday hang heavy on my shoulders. I suspect Falcon puzzled that out as well, even a brief glance at Al's last case on me makes no sense, it was just random blarg and besides bluster there was no reason to waste PR actions to disprove it. I find it odd to suggest otherwise - you might as well claim he should have investigated you because Al also thought you and I were the scum, remember? Yeah - all the cases were derptastic.

*sigh* Did I say the day went draggy because of you? I said it went draggy because 2 other players kept butting heads with you. They were the reason it went draggy, they were also the reason why you needed to be cleared.

You seem to work from the assumption that F16 would only hide behind someone to see if they are guilty you are not considering the great strength it would have given falcon going in today knowing that one of our loudest most experienced players is not scum. There is every justification to check you regardless of how stupid Al and Slandaar where yesterday, in fact their stupidity made it more crucial that someone cleared you today, so that we can put any further outbursts of said stupidity in the ignore pile and not seed minute seeds of doubt.


As for the *dire circumstances* yes thor is town is the obvious and clear elephant in the room. But it needs to be 100% thor is town, not *I tracked thor and he went nowhere last night, he cant have killed Maxous* which is of no help and just lets someone out of the bag unnecessarily But there are other blatantly obvious results that might be of dire importance such as *I tracked XXX to Maxous last night* which isnt a confirmation of what we know but obviously really important information.

I think it's obvious that his scum with falcons post 736 which elyse brought up. He also probably knew that slandaar wouldn't give up the thor lynch. Also if thors scum I think this proves Slandaar's obvious town.I would look back into more reasons for how's thor is scum but I don't want to go read that argument with Slandaar it gives me a headache.

I still have no idea what you are trying to say most of the time.

but unvote you damn idiot.

[Sir Bastion]

The vows a little bit stupid through as in F16 case he knew he would die if you were scum and it was a crumb of his night actions your vow on ice isn't anything to do with your actions?

...what?

[Sir Bastion]

@Sir bastion
Why it's lynch 2???

Thor is scum caught fair and square by his twinkly toes in a night action.

There is no case to discuss with other players, all there is is what thor musters as his defence.

So for the rest of his this is a good time to take in day 1 and night 1 and discuss other potential scum that will be pushed on in day 3.

but if you put him anywhere near hammer, Thor will hammer himself so we get no time to discuss and his scum partners get to skulk pass day 2 without contributing to the discussion.

[Sir Bastion]

Now, ask yourself about the people (like Bastion) who are seeking to avoid making the vow.

I'll nip this in the bud now cause I dont want this to become a thing when frankly it's none of anyone's business.

I dont make vows

period

it's a real world thing, I dont make vows big or small or of any minor laughable importance, you wont find me doing it in mafia scum and you'll certainly wont find me making one anywhere else. And yes you might have a thousand curious scenarios (what when I'm getting married?) and so on but the answer is the same I dont make vows.

personal tick you can try and take it as some sign any way in this game but the answer will not change

I DONT MAKE VOWS

What I can say is yes ICEninja is my top suspect

unlike falcon who had him oddly pegged as ABR's partner I had him down as my top suspect if ABR flipped town basedly purely on his shift to pushing elsewhere *after* ABR claimed his VT role. Though there is one seed of doubt which I will only touch on when we are actually waggoning him not before (something I am extending to only 2 players here).

But between you and him the difference is evidence, there is evidence that falcon intended to check you last night, there is evidence that he pegged his suspicion of ice to being ABR's partner. So despite coming into today suspecting Ice more then I did you, the results of the night say it all. You hang first.

As for the rest of my reads


Garmr is my other special exception who I am leaning town but will only say why on a day we are potentially waggoning him. Aside from that exception, he's excitable, confusing and very messy, so a quick question might clean up a lot of this: Is english your first language?

Elyse I have a townread on, we did appear to have the same approach to a lot of things on day 1. Though I did need to check how quickly she jumped on the hider result. But 10 minutes after the day started (and 6 minutes after the pm) and a quick meta shows she is normally on at that time says to me that it was all a genuine response. You cant blame me for being suspect, Macros was someone on day 1 I had suspicions on.

Slandaar does appear to be town, Despite being correct, I still dont agree with much of his day 1 work but with the exception of early day 1 I didnt find it scum motivated. As much as Slandaar might get offended by me calling a lot of his case Baggage, it does put him more likely town to drag in such baggage.

hazingfitz is pretty null at the moment

As is Skelda

Zakk was an odd sort of null leaning scum day 1, but day 2 is looking up purely from activity alone. I dont know if you'd like me to address your thoughts on me now or would you prefer to watch me a bit longer and put forward a case formally on day 3?

Toolendso has been *safe* which make me suspicious but not much more then just keeping an eye on his voting habits more then anything else.



Aside from that I dont think it's a 2 scum team game or a a game with a seriel killer, a hider does not seem to be a role suited to such games besides last nights results couldnt have come about by having 2 scum teams, if there were we would have 3 dead bodies right now instead of 2.

That leaves the obvious, the hider hid behind scum or the hider hid behind Maxous.

Since falcon made very clear where he was going to hide that only leaves one result.

as for *confirmed townies* there is none. I dont care how much someone fought with thor or defended albert, until you flip nobody is confirmed town in my book and anyone pushing such a notion right now is suspect in my books.

[Sir Bastion]

@Bastion



What about promises? Do you make promises?
Contracts?
Agreements?

This really horrifies you, doesn't it?

nope to promises

contracts and agreements are negotiated

[Sir Bastion]

What are you, like Ron Swanson here?
Please explain to me why you aren't willing to agree to a lynch that the only way it will matter is if I flip town?
Is it because you know?
Because that's what it look slike.

Unvote: Ice
Vote: Bastion

I'm still pretty sure on Ice - but I want people to remember this after my flip.

Are you incapable of bloody reading

I am already fully and willing to lynch Ice, more so if you (shockingly) flip town

I have said that twice now

I said it before you even brought up this stupid vow notion:

Which for me right now

FOS: Iceninja

his wishy washy attitude post alberts claim struck me as suspicous enough to keep an eye on him

and I brought it up afterwards were I clearly stated that despite being someone who doesnt make vows

period

Ice is on the top of my list.

What I can say is yes ICEninja is my top suspect

So for the third bloody time

yes I will clearly vote to lynch Ice if you flip town, i'm just not holding my breath on you flipping as such

I will probably still vote to lynch ice if you flip scum, because I dont think the whole basis of scum Ice should be watered down to if falcon hid behind him or you which is a big part of why you are making such a show of wanting to have him hanged. Cause if we did let it get watered down to that then he gets an easy out when you flip scum.

I will regardless of both of those points never vow or promise to do so.

[Sir Bastion]

I honestly don't even know what to say to all this. I know a scum flip on Thor doesn't clear me by a long shot, but it seems to me like the only reason anyone suspects me (besides the F-16 thing pointing to me which will obviously be disproven upon Thor flipping scum) is that I was wishy-washy in wanting to lynch Albert yesterday. Which I honestly can't defend because I wasn't confident about his flip and made it clear that I wasn't.
.

Also you're first post of day 2

Gloating (any form of "complaining" about how bad the previous night was, how the doctor/cop was killed, etc.) Similar to "congratulating the doctor".

Well damn. OK. That sucks.

Neither Maxous nor F-16 feels like a vig kill to me. Slandaar would have shot Thor if he was a vig, and anyone else probably would have shot Slandaar.

I'm not going to assume anything, but this feels like either a two-family mafia game or we've got a serial killer.

I'm now having serious doubts about Thor. I obviously can't trust ABR completely, as I still don't understand why he played the way he played, but he might have been on to something.

[Sir Bastion]

I'd say ICE and Garmr. I sense some bussing going on.

thats a lot of bussing considering thor is pushing to lynch Ice (well before he voted me anyway) who voted garmr who's pushing to lynch Ice.


if thats the scumteam we might aswell let them all hang each other

[Sir Bastion]

uhmm you do know thor is confirmed scum right now.

We are lynching him no matter what today, This day was continuing because we wanted everyone to touch base get some thoughts gathered about day 1 and night 1 out there and let players like you and fitz catch up on.

Fitz seemed to.

Are you comfortable that you are up to speed?

[Sir Bastion]

How is he confirmed? Surely I didn't miss a guilty result or something. I have no qualms about voting for him, honestly, but I feel like I'm not in on something.

Then what do you expect me to say? I'm pretty lost here.

Falcon was a hider, his last post on day 1 was:

Albert, if you really are town,

I think Thor is the person town should look into if I die tonight.

Falcon died, hiders only die if they are hiding behind the person scum kill (which was maxous) or they hide behind scum.

Falcon said to watch thor, breadcrumbing quite clearly he was going to hide behind him and now he is dead. He had no issue with maxous so he had no reason to hide behind maxous. This is a normal game so there is no way he got directed to another person.

ipso facto Thor = Scum.


If you are comfortable that you are caught up and ready to be a productive part of this game on day 3 then we will hang thor now and go into day 3. We dont want you crying *catch up* from the get go on day 3.

Day 3 you will be posting reads and scumhunting like a mother.

or else.

[Sir Bastion]

Exactly.
So why is Bastion fighting signing up for it?
Take your time.
This isn't rocket science.

No it appears to be kindergarten. it's been explained to you already *slowly*

Uhm...you do know that I'm not.
Off the top of my head I can think of two ways I'm not and it doesn't even need me to work in that Falcon probably wasn't the most reliable voice of steady opinion either.

I like how you quote the start of the post but not the rest of it where I did touch over the alternative ways falcon's death could have gone down and how unlikely they were.

[Sir Bastion]

1 got high and mighty about the logistics of a vow and his attitude about them.

correction 1 already told you he had given his answer:

I think you might need to back up and read my first post of day 2.

I dont need to make a vow to you because my intentions towards ICE are damn clear already.

which you then proceeded to ignore by quoting only the second half of that response.

You touched on only his targeting, which I already said I wasn't even including. I can think of two ways with him targeting me that don't confirm me as scum.

I did point out it was a normal game so him being redirected was impossible. but now I'm curious how did he die hiding behind a town person in a normal game?

[Sir Bastion]

1. Saying 'I suspect him' is way different than 'if Thor flips town we'll lynch him'

So you claim at least 2 reasons apart from falcons targeting and the first is...he didnt target you.

2. Both PGO and RBer could affect his life and confirm jack all.
Especially with you preaching to the skies about how obvious his crumbs were.

I got you, don't I? Were you the scum who spotted it and plotted the block, or was that Ice?

Roleblocker is aimed and you cant target a hider who's hiding. And even if it did roleblock him it wouldnt have killed him.

But paranoid Gun owner is a potential, while its generally considered non-normal its not on the list of none allowed roles. Though I dont know of a game with both a hider and a PGO and how it turned out. Will have a look for that.

First bit of info I found on a quick google: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _Game_FAQs

which also has the paranoid gun owner down as non-normal.



so 2 reasons is really 1, which is there is PGO in the game.

Are you claiming PGO?



oh dear Garmr seems more broken then ever.

[Sir Bastion]

actually I just became aware that your 1 was not the first of your 2 alternatives but actually something seperate

[Sir Bastion]

1. Saying 'I suspect him' is way different than 'if Thor flips town we'll lynch him'

which might be why I made it a very formal

FOS: Iceninja

rather then a half arsed *ninja could be scum*

[Sir Bastion]

Wow, Bastion is actually ignoring the Normal list of what roles are or aren't considered Normal, and using a player's personal list as a justification for something.
Seriously now.

and you are ignoring just 2 lines above that link

But paranoid Gun owner is a potential,

while its generally considered non-normal its not on the list of none allowed roles.

Though I dont know of a game with both a hider and a PGO and how it turned out. Will have a look for that.



That list came up because it's the only link I saw that mentions both of those roles while not being in a game involving 100's of roles in an open game (the other link: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... Idea_Mafia)

[Sir Bastion]

Allow me to break it down for you; PGO is not considered Non-Normal for the Normal queue. Therefore - it is allowed to appear in Normal games.
Arguing otherwise is silly.
Arguing it at all is almost as silly since I'm even saying I'm not claiming it - but continue all your "research" anyway. That will sell everyone.

*sigh*

I am agreeing with it being normal, why else would I say it was the only point you made that stands. Why else would I highlight the part of the post where I stated that its not on the none allowed roles.

[Sir Bastion]

OOC
Has there been a game in recent times where you can have 100 players.

dont know. It would need some mad voting system to work.

There was a game I played once that had parallel worlds using two seperate threads with the ability for players to cross into different worlds (go to different threads)

I'd imagine a game with 100 would have to run across 4-6 seperate threads where they can cross into each other.

You could do a world war mafia themed game and each thread could be a country

[Sir Bastion]

Also sorry for all the posts in a row but I'm on a roll here.

really?

rolling in circles perhaps!

almost reads to me the exact same long post you wrote yesterday. Sure Iceninja and Slandaar have new details, but you are saying pretty much the same on the others minus the big breakdown of which of my posts you didnt like.

[Sir Bastion]

skelda has not been on since their last post. Which was exactly a day ago so either they will show up around this time today and give their input and we can move on or we just move on.


Ice there are two people calling for my head. You know one, His name is Thor he has been taking bits and pieces of my posts and creating fantasy. You've recently been oddly caught up in one (by being wrong) with the whole normal fiasco, for some reason despite being corrected he still thinks I think PGO is non normal.

The other is Zakk who has an impressive list of posts of mine that he has found problems with. I have offered to go through the list and defend myself, or if he'd prefer I can wait until the whole business with thor is over and he can directly push me and I'll defend myself then. The list is here btw in case you missed it

Tool's case on Garmr is solid enough and I think its worth a follow up tomorrow

[Sir Bastion]

I'd have to agree with slandaar.

With the exception of skelda everyone else have given their 2 cents and thoughts, so we might as well drop the hammer and resume day 3.

Skelda has been given a grace period to catch up, everyone has given their thoughts so no matter who is knocked off tonight we have content to work with (except skelda of course). So we might as well move on.

[Sir Bastion]

His flip will either clear up a lot of things, or it will bust the game wide open because a ton of people's reads were wrong, and scum is totally manipulating us via night kills (if he's town). I mean, after all, it is possible that scum caught F-16's implication that "if he died" people should look into Thor, and perhaps they extrapolated that he was a Hider based on that. And either way it would be a win/win and Thor would be lynched much more easily if they killed off F-16, a pretty townie player.

On phone so this might be messy.

There have been only 3 ways shown that falcon could have been killed and Thor is town

2 of them rely on falcon derping

1 he hid behind someone else or he didn't hide at all.


The last is he hid behind a pgo which if Thor is not claiming it then that's the least likely due to it requiring both a derp from falcon and a scum pgo.

Of those 3 only 1 could have been intercepted by scum (he didn't hide at all) and that way means we have 2 scum teams.

[Sir Bastion]

Or sk

[Sir Bastion]

And garmr that was not hammer

[Sir Bastion]

With those last 2 flips everybody is now back on the board as a suspect for me pretty much

Scum having daychat via thor means no interaction on day 1 or day 2 can be taken at face value, also it was a massive mistake on my part pushing to drag the day out as it allowed scum to take full advantage of thor's ability for an extra day.

Though Tool's case on garmr loses a lot of potential weight.

Also Havingfitz's flip removed one of my suspicions left over from day 1.

That doesnt leave a lot immediate knowledge.

knowing scum had day chat makes it hard to judge how much of the interactions on day 1 and day 2 were controlled I need to go check a few things so will be back with some thoughts on that and a vote based on my findings.



Meanwhile

@Skelda I am very confused by your post?

[Sir Bastion]

Skelda has been acting dumb all game (whenever they *rarely* post), to the point that it does look incredibly unlikely someone who has access to daychat with their partners could make such mistakes.

Which is why I need to find a daychat scum QT that Thor was in. I need to get an idea of how much he'd take control of a daychat before I overthink all of this.

[Sir Bastion]

@Elyse: I was saying that perhaps fitz investigated a townie night one, so without any confirmed mafia to chase day 2 he went with his gut, which pointed to ICE.

It would make sense, in a way, for Thor to use his last day clearing his scumbuddy ICE by pushing for a lynch against him (with his "vow"). I hadn't really entertained the idea seriously before because I figured ICE was Thor's only defense after F-16 flipped hider.

This is why it's important to remember Thor and his partners had daychat all the way through day 2. Ice and Thor could very well have been coordinating with ice the push back and forth. But at the same time, they would have known the second thor flipped the jig was up on them having daychat so any such plans would be dangerously flawed.

As for Fitz, if he had found a town pr I would expect he would have breadcrumbed it by at least giving a reads list and putting the player high in town reads. He gave no such reads list so my guess is whoever he looked at on night 1 returned as a vanilla which is worthless.


Very quickly I havnt found a daychat one yet, but from a few of Thor's games as scum in newbie games we get the following:

I never 'plan' Day 1 as scum - I prefer to let it flow as it flows and see where it takes me.
Here's my default scum IC info speech;

Welcome to being dastardly scum, it is our job to kill the living bejeezus out of the town. I have a couple pieces of quick advice for you as newbie scum. Feel free to take what I say and mull it over with your own thoughts. I won't claim these are absolute rules of awesome, but I will say they appear to work pretty well in my opinion.

1. Try to post at least once a day. I know some people advocate lurking as a good scum tactic, I think it is a poor plan overall. Usually people who post consistently are less likely to be lynched than those that don't.

2. When you are attacked, do a controlled attack back. Now, you're almost assuredly going to be attacked at some point this game, and Day 1 is a likely time for it to happen. When you are attacked, don't ignore the attack, at the same time, don't pay attention only to the attack. The best way to respond to an attack is to address it...but then also, in the same post, make a continued press/question/attack on another player; here's an example;

Bad Idea
Player 1: U R Scumz!
You: No I'm not, U R Scumz!
Player 1: See how guilty he sounds? Vote pl0x!

Another Bad Idea
Player 1: U R Scumz!
You: No I'm not, you have no evidence. By the way, don't you agree that Player 2 is scumz?
Player 1: He's trying to deflect me onto Player 2, he is scumz! Lynch Woody na0w!

Good Idea
Player 1: U R Scumz!
You: No I'm not, let me see your case and I'll take it apart, it's silly to think I'm scum.

Oh, yeah, Player 2, earlier when you voted for Player 3 you never said why, what's up with that? Why do you think Player 3 is scum? What did you hope to gain by voting him without explaining why? Answer in your next post!

--------------

Make sense?

3. Forget you're scum. This is my gold standard advice. Here's my super scum strategy secret - TOWN GENERALLY HAS NO IDEA WHAT IT'S DOING AND MOST "SCUMTELLS" ARE MADE UP BALONEY. Don't "try" to get someone mislynched. DOn't do sudden vote switches just to get someone who is town mislynched. What you should do is honestly approach the game as though you were town, and vote people for the reasons you'd normally vote people. Make cases. Ask questions. Develop town reads and react to them like they're town. Develop scum reads and try to get those players lynched. Adjust your reads when new evidence shows up. If you do that all I pretty much promise you that unless a PR catches you that you'll make it to endgame.

4. Don't get tense if I attack you, I probably will - feel free to attack me if I look scummy, in fact I encourage it. But also feel free to blatantly buddy me if you think I look town. Keep an honest interaction with your partner (in a perfect world, forget that I'm your partner and react to me as honestly as possible).

5. If it looks like you're about to be lynched, it is not a bad idea to claim a PR - at least there's a chance you'll sucker out a real one,a nd if not then...hey, you may not be lynched. If you want to fakeclaim a PR it is best to decide which one you intend to do, and remember to PLAY LIKE THAT PR the whole game. Make decisions each night as to what your town PR night actions are - and allow your gameplay to *change* depending on the results you get. For instance - if you plan to claim cop, and decide you'd protect 'Player X' and there is no night kill that night - then prepare to treat 'Player X' like likely town for the rest of the game - and react a little cageishly if people ask you why. Stuff like that.

6. Have fun. Seriously, it's all a game

======================================================

I'm available for any scum related questions you may have - if you have any town related or generic ones, just ask in thread.
Other than that I pretty much plan to kill all the town and dance about on their graves

from here: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/EB4PqZg3ZAXwG


its his standard *scum paste*

funnily enough it's very similar to my own *scum paste* and confirmed my own day 1 thoughts about thor's gamestyle.

regardless that likely puts an end to the notion of a delicately planned illusion on day 1 from thor's side of the scumteam. So I shouldnt overthink his interactions of day 1.

Still looking for a daychat game. He has far too many newbie games, so I'm just going to search for his name in little italy.

[Sir Bastion]

I don't know what I'm doing, I don't remember what was going on, and I've hardly read the thread. So yes, I imagine I would be.

I'd be putting more effort into this game if I were scum. As it stands, I overbooked myself. And I'm not really in the swing of things. I could just replace out if you don't want to bother dealing with me. Or I could stay and try to makd myself useful somehow.

Then just explain your post.

What do you mean by Ice being afraid of Thor incriminating him? Is there a particular post where ICE tried to shut day 2 down early or avoided chatting to thor?

[Sir Bastion]

and a daychat game with scumthor is found: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/tHcinY336nM

[Sir Bastion]

ICE is at L-2. There are two mafia left.

huh...

and you are so sure neither of them are on the wagon already (we'll let slide how sure you are there are 2, since 3 is the common number for a mini)

[Sir Bastion]

one post never put me off a wagon so quickly...

[Sir Bastion]

Slandaar can you give me a brief reads breakdown aside from ICE. Even if its just a list of names from most town to most scum (excluding ICE) please.

[Sir Bastion]

Zakk and Ice are scum.

You can tell the way Zakk waffled and waffled about me/Thor yesterday hes scum.

interesting...

Zakk waffled and waffled about you huh?

Slandaar is sitting in a volatile spot for me. I can't really read him too well. I think his early attack on Thor could have been elaborate bussing, but we'll see how he acts when Thor is dead. If he starts finding other scum immediately I can't say I will hate that in the least. And if scum decides to kill him off, at least it will rid us of a pretty WIFOMy slot which has strong ties to Thor. I may get a better read on him after reading some of his later posts though. So stay tuned.

I highly doubt that Slandaar and Thor are on the same team.

Slandaar - I really don't think he's scum, if Thor is. And I think Thor is. If they are scum together though, they deserve to win just for the amount of baloney they put us through on Day 1. That amount of back and forth would be really hard to

That's not a lot...especially when you compare it to what he wrote about me:

I have a scum read on Sir Bastion for a number of reasons, most of which were early on in the game. He has since come back towards the middle of the scale somewhat, but I would still much rather lynch him than anyone else (except Thor) at this point. I am quite willing to be convinced that he is not scum, in fact, I have a note saying that if Thor is scum, he is less likely to be... not sure why I thought that, but it's in my notes under both Thor and Sir Bastion. Anyway, post 16 felt very contrived, post 26 was a soft-defend of Thor, 37 seemed to imply that he had nothing better to do than ignore certain people while waiting for others to post, 40 brings up how he was town in other games (as if to imply he is town here, or at least plant some kind of subconscious seed), and it also brings up something solely in order to be able to say "buuut, I'm not going to talk about it here" which is sketchy at best. he also spouts game theory in that post which seems unnecessary. I don't like in post 42 where he says "assuming I don't?" because that is a giant deflection. more unnecessary game theory in post 45. Jumping over to 112, he sticks with a vote on GuthrieGov while admitting his reasoning is shallow. He also questions GG in 113 to find out if GG thinks poorly of him. That's a weird thing for a townie to do. In post 168 he appears to have a good catch, but I don't like the way he talks about it as if it's only in passing, and seems detached, with his ellipses (...) and it feels like he's trying to point out awkward things about somebody in order to get others to latch onto them and do the dirty work of lynching them for him. Post 182 complains about having to slog through the Thor/Slandaar noisefest again, but it almost seems like he's not actually going to do it, he just wants people to think he is, so they'll think he's trying to be useful. Whether or not that's the case here, I don't like the attitude of trying to show off the things you're doing to help the game, and it feels off to me. I wrote under that point "Let's see if he comes up with anything worthwhile or is just posturing" and I don't have any notes after that which cancel out that sentiment. So clearly that's bad, and supports my idea that he never actually did re-read it, he just tried to snag some town credit for saying he was going to. 234 is a bunch of words with disproportionately little actual analysis of what was said, and it seemed to me like he was making a larger post in order to try to keep up the amount of posts he had at a competitive level with those who were posting the most in the game, solely for the sake of being seen as being active by other people.

To put it all into a few sentences (in case you weren't following along and looking at the posts, which you really should do), here's the case: He appears to be very aware and very concerned about what others think of him. He appears to be trying to plant thoughts into other people's subconscious to get them to feel certain ways about him and others, and that's not something town does. They are quite a bit more blunt about it. Kind of like I'm being right now, actually. And also, I just get a pretty good gut feeling that he's not one of the good guys, and that's always a nice cherry on top of the icing for me. So, logically speaking, we should lynch him after Thor.

thats waffle...

The only thing I see about Zakk's posting that sticks out is he suggests *like Ice* that you and thor were bussing on day 1.


EBWOP:

And look its just too perfect 'IF SKELDA AND SLAND TOWN' (TRUE) Zakk is scum! (TRUE)

Its a scum thing to semi distance.

man

it is

just too perfect

If Slandaar, Zakk, and Garmr all magically ended up dead and flipped, I wouldn't be a sad panda.

and thats from an actual scumbag (before he knew he was busted)



here's my thing, I was actually going to drop my vote down on the ICE wagon, I find that if Thor is sticking to what he says is his scum play then he would have pushed lynching Ice opposite him on day 2 regardless if it was bussing or not and Ice had a pretty poor run of posts towards the end of day 1.

But now both you and Tool have gone and made me incredibly weary of it.

Tool cause his comment feels like a slip by a buddy trying to slow down the wagon on his partner with a call to reason (slipping up by pretty much admitting there are no scum on his wagon)

And you cause...well you're perception of day 1 & 2 seems slightly warped, you are attacking Ice on things that could have been applied to quite a few players, including confirmed town Falcon. Specifically the ABR making up a case situation.

Since I think Tool is the most direct issue I want looked at.

Vote Tool

I'll come back around to Ice and you if I need to.

EBWOP number 2

Don't be discouraged by Slandaar's obnoxious bravado, guys. There are actually some good points in there.

So lynch ICE

But ICE brings up a good point too. Slandaar and Thor took up like half of day 1 fighting, which Thor specifically suggested that scum do with each other in the QT link Bastion posted earlier:

"4. Don't get tense if I attack you, I probably will - feel free to attack me if I look scummy, in fact I encourage it. But also feel free to blatantly buddy me if you think I look town. Keep an honest interaction with your partner (in a perfect world, forget that I'm your partner and react to me as honestly as possible)."

wait wait wait Lynch Slander...


Tool, pick one.

[Sir Bastion]

Ice you are ar L-1

claim.

[Sir Bastion]

So here's my conspiracy theory that makes SO MUCH more sense now that we saw a daychat flip (NOTE: I have never to memory encountered an encrypter before, but I have not only encountered scum with daychat but BEEN scum with daychat.

Therefore I believe that either only Thor was allowed to post and the other read or Thor was able to have a one-on-one with one but not all scum. Otherwise they would just have daytalk powers and the name "encrypter" would not have been neccesary.

I believe scum's daytalk abilities died with thor) I think Slandaar is a very likely scum buddy for Thor.

What are you basing this on?

[Sir Bastion]

I don't know what I'm doing, I don't remember what was going on, and I've hardly read the thread. So yes, I imagine I would be.

I'd be putting more effort into this game if I were scum. As it stands, I overbooked myself. And I'm not really in the swing of things. I could just replace out if you don't want to bother dealing with me. Or I could stay and try to makd myself useful somehow.

Then just explain your post.

What do you mean by Ice being afraid of Thor incriminating him? Is there a particular post where ICE tried to shut day 2 down early or avoided chatting to thor?

Well, did Thor even post Day 2? Was he hammered before he had the chance?

I'd be down with Slandaar dying, I suppose. He seems to fit nicely with Thor as scum.

Uhmm Thor posted *alot* on day 2.

Based on what the wiki says I don't believe all 3 scum have free day talk regardless of who is alive or not.

it took me 5 minutes (during the night phase where we had 2 days) to put encryptor into the little italy search bar and check the other games they've shown up in.

with the exception of 1 (where no mafia QT was provided) every single game worked the exact same way.

Encryptor allows scum daychat, encryptor dies daychat is taken away. It's all in the same QT, its just after encryptor dies it reverts to a standard night time.

And now I am annoyed on two fronts.

Firstly because you are spouting complicated theory about the game set up without the common courtesy of *checking*

the wiki is lacking, then quickly search for the role in a game and see how it was used in game.

Why the need to complicate things and try to wifom the game set up?

Secondly and more so I'm annoyed at tool and Elyse for butting in and essentially leading you in answering my question. *thanks guys* grumble.

[Sir Bastion]

in case anyone is looking for it, Skelda's only other scum game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=31272

and after a day 1 lynch and a complete defeat of scumteam I quote:

What a failure of a game. Gosh, that was terrible.

I really, really hate being scum, I'm horrible at it anyway.

Well, good game town, even though the win was handed to you. I think all the scum were just bad at being bad, so yeah. Dessew was pretty obvious, I failed obviously, JKLM/Red were uggh, and then VA was there doing I don't even know what. I seriously think that without some more experienced scum players, we were toast.

Not a fan of meta, but if Skelda is such a bad scum player perhaps it would go along way to explain the constant absence and general idiocy.

I mean 10 posts and not a single one over 2 sentences long

unvote

vote skelda

[Sir Bastion]

The scum team is Slandaar and Garmr, and they've never let up on me today. Town players are the ones having doubts about me.

Do you believe that genuinely?

When I am about to be lynched (which I have been many times) I wouldnt assume all the peoplee people pushing me are automatically the scum.

Yes one of the two could be. But both? Thats very risky move for scum cause obviously if you are vt and are about to flip as such, chances are much higher that one of the two will get the follow up lynch.

No it makes much more sense that one is scum and the other is one who is trying to keep as far from things as possible.

by the way...skelda is posting elsewhere, but not here.


Since an intent has been stated, you might as well give us your final reads on

everybody

.


personally between you and slandaar if it has to be one of the two I'd opt for you simply cause if slandaar *is* scum he's pretty much standing to the forefront and asking to be grilled tonight/tomorrow if you flip town. Only way I can see scum doing that is if they are extremely confident that their *possible* third man is so deep in confirmed town territory that we wouldnt work out who before the end. Very few players this game have that benefit (I may even say...only 1 and even thats dubious since the encryptor flip)

[Sir Bastion]

Bastian has been posting consistently town ever since page 10 or so and I can't find a single vote count that incriminates him as scum. Tool is similar.

Bastion has been scumhunting well all game. At the beginning of day 2, he asked for us to stretch the day out. Bastion was also one of the three players Thor went to with his "vow." Instead of arguing against the vow using very obvious game-related points (it means nothing, we'll do it anyway if you flip town) or just taking the vow, Bastion gave a sincere real-life answer as to why he didn't want to take it. I feel like scum would just default to the most obvious explanation in the interests of not giving town any ammunition against them.

riiiight.

want to paint an even bigger target on my butt tonight you two?

Zakk, if you are town can you post your case against me now or is it still the same one from early day 2?


As for Garmr

random question for you, Garmr how do you feel about your own play on day 1 only...Do you feel it is worth a reread.

I'd be making more of an effort at playing the game than what I've done so far if I were bad, but I'm worried about what will happen to me in LyLo due to my lack of playing the game, so if you are going to kill me next regardless of the Slandaar flip, I'd rather you get it of over with now and give the town a shot of winning, since I'd hate to be the one to lose all of you the game.

clearly you are reading since you are very aware people are voting you and the reasoning they are voting you, yet you are not contributing. There's replacing in and never fully catching up and then there's replacing in and clearly being up to date on things but not making an effort. You are firmly in the 2nd camp now and there are fair few town reasons to be in that camp.

Stop avoiding the thread and give us a reads rundown at least.

[Sir Bastion]

Prod recieved. I've just lacked the motivation for this game, so I'm not sure I blame you all for voting for me. Anyway...

VOTE: Slandaar.

I think the reason I've been ignoring this game is just that after replacing I never got into the swing of things. But for those voting me, I'd be making more of an effort at playing the game than what I've done so far if I were bad, but I'm worried about what will happen to me in LyLo due to my lack of playing the game,

so if you are going to kill me next regardless of the Slandaar flip,

I'd rather you get it of over with now and give the town a shot of winning, since I'd hate to be the one to lose all of you the game.

Hold the phone...


This doesn't make much sense, why specifically the slandaar flip, ice ninja was the leading wagon until you unvotes ( still leading but no longer l-1) slandaar has been defending you and he was nowhere near being lynched today....ever

So you are aware enough to why we suspect you, but you completely mangle the lay of land


Unless.


Does this look like some possible scum slip?

Like she knows slandaar will flip scum but is trying to play it humble.


Or am I just going crazy for the need for content from skelda.

[Sir Bastion]

I'm perfectly happy lynching either Slandaar or Garmr today. I'm less enthusiastic about lynching Skelda because if I'm right about the scum team then I'll have a difficult time convincing anyone to lynch the actual scum tomorrow in mylo.

If it really comes down to me hammering Skelda or being the lynch I'm honestly 50/50 because I feel like unless I can prove to you guys that I'm on to something

, I'm a bigger liability to town than Skelda is for mylo.

wtf is this sh*t!

[Sir Bastion]

Firstly congrats to scum you played a great game.

I also think there has been a bit too negativity about town in this thread so round of applause all around too. I enjoyed playing with all for the most part.

@Thor: I do think you give your day 2 too much credit. My comment that it was my mistake holding your lynch back was that it gave your team more daychat, most of your comments of the day of day 2 went in one ear and out the other. But I doi think the play on having the watcher watch you was 1 of 2 moves that handed you the game so many applause for that.

@Elyse: fuuuuu, I even checked on day 2, I timed how long after game open that you posted your vote and I weighed it up as a plan by scum from the night before or not and deemed that 20 minutes was sufficent and that you were normally posting around 3am (my time). I checked it again day 3 when thor flipped encryptor and I gave you a pass because as I originally found you normally posted around 3am (my time) and when I died I still thought that maybe just maybe something I had said on day 3 got me killed. But the second slandaar came in. Fuuuuu...

[Sir Bastion]

Also god damnit that day 1 breadcrumb from garmr.

Reading the mafia qt...thor you evil man laughing at me from there for picking it up and running with it.


fuuuuuuu...