Newbie 1428 Game Over

[BigTerp]

I don't think I'm currently able to be an effective IC (for the same reason as why I'm taking over my brother's modded games), I'd like to

request replacement

I was really starting to feel Cheery was lurking. Not much to go on with him, but his lurking had me questioning him. Looks like he was just truly to busy, or whatever, to participate. All these replacements are making it tough on the town and providing some nice distractions/confusion for the scum team.

[BigTerp]

ok fine

unvote, vote: Viera Assassin

Looks like we have VA at L-1. Anxious to see if we get any movement out of it.

I'm leaving work today at noon (EST) to go camping for the weekend. Not sure what kind of cell service I'll have so I'll say I'm going to be V/LA through Sunday. If I get decent cell/WIFI service, I'll be on though. Sobriety can't be promised.

[Grimgroove]

Sorry for having taken so long. Maybe JasonWazza can ask for a deadline extension as well.

Not hammering Viera Assassin, still think she's town, despite her faulty scumradar.

Sakura Hana should be our lynch for the day.

I started with my case on her predecessor, Cat Clancer, because it's easier and shorter, but my case on Sakura Hana will follow in a couple of hours when I'm home.

On Cat Clancer, the following:

Like so many people, he started with RVS'ing and some little prodding and alright questions. His start was decent, but in no way telling of any alignment.
His first judgeworthy post was post 97, where he presents an ISO on Pieguyn. You'll have noticed that before this 97, Cat Clancer thought of ISO's as the way par excellence to scumhunt. At the start of his post 97 he implies he's ISO'd everyone,b y saying he's sharing his comments on Pieguyn's specifically because he found them most dubious (granted, this is implicit). The fact that this "case" on Pieguyn is weak is beyond question. Why is it weak? Because Cat Clancer is a noob, or because Cat Clancer is scum reachin for straws and trying to look good? The eternal question. I think it's the first because of "the lie" that he checked all ISO's. Now I call it a lie, and you may say: he never said he did, but to me the implication is clear. Or you can say: How are you certain he didn't ISO everyone? I'm not, but when looking aat his case being so weak on Pieguyn, I'm pretty certain that if he had ISO'd everyone, he could have come up with something better.

Now an evolution.

131 Ravenpaw is being complimented for her wonderful townplay, full of information and analysis, arguments. In the same post, he still calls pieguyn scum (even though pieguyn retorted with ease to Cat's accusations) and Banksys, who showed equal vigour in presenting details and arguments as Ravenpaw. The problem Cat Clancer is having with Banksys is style, as is evident from his post 139, but calling that style scummy is a huge stretch. Another problem I have with 139 is how Cat mentions taking it easy "on people learning the game". Rather than a defense of Ravenpaw against Banksys' manners, this feels more like a (partially) pre-emptive self-defense.

The real interesting switch is in post 196, where he suddenly sees both Ravenpaw AND Banksys as possible scum AND calls their discussion the essence of this dayphase, forgetting about the strong townread he had earlier on Ravenpaw. This switch is not properly, if at all, explained. I called it opportunistic right after I saw it,b ecause it felt like scum on the sideline, trying to keep his options open watching a TvT-fight. Cat Clancer's behavior here is actually part of the reason why I started second-guessing my own view on Ravenpaw. Somehow I felt she was the victim of opprotunistic scum here, making me see her in a new light.

To his 207, which I found incredibly scummy, you can already find my response in post 218. Sadly, none on the points in 218 were addressed, because he replaced out right after it. Not for nothing,b ut given my view on that slot, I wouldn't be surprised if this is newb-scum seeing he's already out of his reach and simply deciding to replace out.

A general iSO of Cat Clancer will show you he's done nothing of substantial scumhunting, except for his ill-concieved ISO on Pieguyn and some opportunistic commenting on Ravenpaw vs. Banksys.

I don't expect Sakura Hana to reply to this, my case on her is coming up, but one thing I can already say is that I noticed a similar read-inconsistency (in this case on me), non-helpful questions that make her try to look busy, and painting anything she does as townier than they are.

More later.

Vote Sakura Hana while you wait though.

[Grimgroove]

First thing I already want to get out there.
There's not much use to go into too much detail in her catch-up posts. There's much of it in them that I don't like, making it look like she just wants town-cred for simply making the effort of gonig through the topic and commenting on most of it. But her choice of commenting on what and in what way seems very arbitrary.

One crucial thing I want to point out here though, is the following:

Page 7

Not much to comment on (considering there's like a penta post in there)

Page 8

Seeing Grimgroove as possible scum too, I think we got the scumteam!

184 I do agree with Cheery here tho, even if that point doesnt have scum motivation, I still like Flareon for scum.
188 Uhh no, that's not how it works, if you want to accuse her of unhelpful questioning you need to bring evidence.
194 Yeah, why are you comparing 2 different people who could potentially have 2 very different playstyles?

On to Page 9...

Page 9

201 So what's your stance on Grim?
204 Oh cool you're here too (tho i had already noticed when i did my last P-Edit ), unfortunately tho i think you replaced into a scum slot.
[post[214[/post] Leans town to me which nullifies the scum read i had on him earlier. I concede and i'll give you a null-town for now.

And I guess that's about it.

Vote: Viera Assassin

@VA: Have you iso'd your predecessor? What do you think about them? What do you think about Raven?

Current Reads:
Town: Raven
Null-Town: Dys, Cheery,

Groovy guy

Null-Scum: pieguy
Scum: Viera Assasin.

Null: The rest.

Guess we can start forming a town bloc from here.

Look at my position in the reads list, and put that next to the way she commented on anything I've done. It does not compute. AT ALL. I should be right there, next to Viera Assassin, if not at the very least next to pieguyn. This inconsistency shows me she doesn't sincerely produce reads, she doesn't "feel" it when someone could be scum, as you do as town, she has to "remember" it, making this scumhuniting business so artificial. In this case, she didn't remember, giving her away.


More later.

[Grimgroove]

Hold on! I just realized the 214 she was referring to, was about me.

Still, I feel this one remark on my 214 is rather a dramatic switch from me scum to me null-town. That post was basically me just saying I liked Ravenpaw as a person and repeating what I had said about her earlier as to why I thought she was scum. Really nothing new. Not a reason for a switch in reads.

[Sakura Hana]

ftr: I had you as null-scum in the one you pointed out, not as scum, my comment was over the fact that I had 2 scumreads and both had associations with them, I rarely get someone out of anything over null-scum on D1.

Also, why did you have to wait until we were almost close to deadline to point that thing several pages ago?

[Grimgroove]

I hadn't noticed it before.

[Grimgroove]

Also, why did you have to wait until we were almost close to deadline to point that thing several pages ago?

What is your theory?

[Sakura Hana]

If you're town, and you really think I'm scum, then you should've noticed anything pertaining to me, specially inconsistencies (tho as you yourself pointed out it isn't a inconsistency).
If you're scum, you could be waiting for the last momment to strike and derail a wagon from your scum partner onto a mislynch.
If you're town, and you're not convinced I'm scum I can see how you missed it then, but then it doesn't go with what you've been preaching all this time would it?
Same if you're town and you think i'm town, but we can see by now this isn't the case.

So which one is it?

[Grimgroove]

It's the first, but I didn't notice "anything pertaining to you". I felt I had noticed enough to call you out for scum, which is not necessarily the same as "everything".

[Sakura Hana]

Heh, for once I see a post of you that feels genuine and not fabricated.
Maybe i'm wrong on you and you truly believe I'm scum, well guess I'll found out if you are or not eventually.

So, why do you think VA is town?

[Sakura Hana]

EBWODP: *i'll find out

[Sakura Hana]

I'll read up in like 20, anyone want to give me a summary?

Did you read up yet

[Sakura Hana]

btw Guys... 7 hours till deadline.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.11

L-1 Viera Assassin - 4 - Ravenpaw, Sakura Hana, BigTerp, pieguyn
Grimgroove - 2 - Derivan, Viera Assassin
Sakura Hana - 2 - Grimgroove, JasonWazza
Derivan - 1 - Dyslexicon

Not Voting: ...

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-09-13 05:51:40)

V/LA: BigTerp through Sunday September 15

[Nobody Special]

Dyslexicon has been prodded.

[Ravenpaw]

Can someone just hammer VA? He's been posting elsewhere so he's obviously just avoiding this game, if he was town he'd been in here giving reads/thoughts/claiming.
If we have a no lynch, I will go crazy (not that I already haven't ).

@Grim- Nice analysis of Cat/Sakura, her and VA are likely the scum team here and I'd be happy to lynch either today but time is against us now. Please vote VA, we can lynch Sakura tomorrow.

I haven't cheery do anything at all, except yelling at grimgroove for his reaching and lack of logic, so he's null.

Quote where this happened?

Dyslexi, I honestly have no idea, and I still don't get exactly why he's voting derivan Hint @Dys: Clarify it for me?
Big Is kinda Neutral (not null) because my read on him has jumped from town to scum to town to scum so i got no idea atm.

So that is a null then.

Derivan: I dont even know where to start... well there's like not much to go with, his predecessor was a lurksack and i got no experience with him (the only game i was with him i replaced into after he was already dead), He needs to do more (keyword Do, not Post) before I can decide on him.

What does it matter if you got no experience with him? You have no experience with me either and probably a few others here too (I'm too lazy to go and confirm this though), so why point it out on Derivan?

I probably should ISO Dys tbh, but i'll leave that for tomorrow because now I gotta sleep.

K.
Sakura these reads feel very scummy, it feels like you're not looking for scum/town at all and instead are just coasting.

[Sakura Hana]

Don't you all hate the word "pinging"?
I do. I hate it.
Another reason to vote Sakura Hana.

Why is it a scum phrase word?

The fact someone used a particular word has no way to indicate alignment.

This post, because of the "pinging" thing, which is reaching.

[Sakura Hana]

What does it matter if you got no experience with him?

It matters in the fact that I can't get a read out of 4 posts.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura these reads feel very scummy, it feels like you're not looking for scum/town at all and instead are just coasting.

Am I? I wonder.

[Sakura Hana]

Well im not going to be here by deadline and im going to sleep soon is there anything else you wanna ask me?

[Ravenpaw]

Don't you all hate the word "pinging"?
I do. I hate it.
Another reason to vote Sakura Hana.

Why is it a scum phrase word?

The fact someone used a particular word has no way to indicate alignment.

This post, because of the "pinging" thing, which is reaching.

How does that post constitute as "yelling" at Grim?

What does it matter if you got no experience with him?

It matters in the fact that I can't get a read out of 4 posts.

But he was a replacement so there's also Michael's posts as well. And you said before that Derivan's problem was not the lack of posts but the lack of action that was making it hard to read him.

Sakura these reads feel very scummy, it feels like you're not looking for scum/town at all and instead are just coasting.

Am I? I wonder.

Mindgames!
How I dislike them so.

[Sakura Hana]

How does that post constitute as "yelling" at Grim?

I guess it looks like yelling to me

/lazy to quote all

2. So can YOU get a read from Michael's posts?

3. Well i like them.

[Sakura Hana]

No more questions? I still have 15 minutes.

[Sakura Hana]

Well, good night.