Mini 414-Anime Mafia | GAME OVAH!

[Yamahako]

Vote Jack

Vote hopping already, scum!?

[Yamahako]

Jack must be FLCL - he makes about as much sense as it does, anyway.

that show is so weird

[Yamahako]

I think I signed up for the wrong minigame. My anime knowledge is limited to a couple love hina shows an old roommate made me watch and that awesome trippy movie Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi. Oh yes, and who I am, but the name means nothing to me.

wikipedia.org is your friend if you care for more info - but I'm sure flavor is fairly unimportant for figuring out anything - unless there's some kind of claiming going on it probably won't come up. But yes, if you're scum, that changes this just let us know and we'll help you figure everything out

[Yamahako]

Well, what do you have?

Do you prefer lake or fly - seeing as how fishing seems to interest you...

[Yamahako]

thrawn - interesting theory.

Unvote, Vote spectrumvoid

I don't see why cubsfan is suspicious for 'fishing ' - knowing what is up with Jack can keep allow us to stop being suspicious of him, if he is town, and spend our energies on other pursuits.

Fishing is always suspicious, speculation and discussion is good town behavior - but directly asking someone (basically..) what their role is on day one is scummy. There may be good and bad reasons for why Jack is acting the way he is, so you can vote him or not depending on what you think about his actions. However point blank asking someone their role is a-no.-1 scummy behavior.

Fishing is scum looking for a good night kill :-/ But its nice to know your guys stick up for each other

unvote, Vote Skruffs

[Yamahako]

Yama - if you think cubs is scum for fishing, and that therefore I am scum for defending him, why are you voting me? Isn't it more likely a townie would be accidentally defending a scum than a scum would intentionally stick their neck out defending a townie?

I saw cubs fishing as far less scummy than your defending him for fishing. I don't really think that he is your scum buddy, I was just being cheeky.

[Yamahako]

Yama : Cubs did not ask jack what his role was. You are exaggerating his question. He asked 'what was up' due to jack's vote hopping all over the place. This is a questoin that was on my mind, too - if it wasn't on yours, that's fine, but you're creating a pink elephant where there is not one by makign some sort of taboo about talking about it.

Every good townie should be questioning the motives of strange behavior and posting. So of course the question was on my mind (up until Jack said he didn't have a restriction, which cleared up most of everything) - but what good would the question serve? A Mafia member wouldn't be honest, and a townie shouldn't tell. I'm not making a big deal about his statement, I'm only making a small deal about your defense of his statement

You keep defending him as well, instead of yourself. I guess your thought process is if his question was justified, then your defense of him about my pointing out the fishing-ness of his question is justified?

Seems a bit convoluted to try and defend yourself through him - especially when its you I'm voting for... and not just for that reason. But your defensive behavior is noted.

[Yamahako]

There *are* no post restrictions in this game, it's a *normal* mini, not themed. So Jack is doing all that stuff of his own free will - Is there a reason for it? Who knows...

It's certainly been more interesting than the first few pages usually are.

I think it started things off pretty well actually - doesn't make you town though

[Yamahako]

cuban smoker wrote:
BIG FOS: Skruffs for vote hoping to spectrumvoid who made a good point. I should also note that players who post a lot are valuable (either as townie or mafia) and thus voting for/lynching spectrumvoid is destructive. I would switch my vote to scruffs if I didn't have it squarely pointed at my favourite target.

I really don't understand this argument

Vote thrawn1020

(Bolded for emphasis) I really don't like his fishing for Jack's character or his possible post restriction. It seems like he's trying to get a little too much out in the open that I would care for.

Well, I don't understand your argument. We've agreed that Jack doesn't have a post restriction a little while ago, and it

seemed

pretty likely that he had something or other until he broke the pattern. I don't know where cuban smoker has his vote currently, but it certainly makes sense to support a lynch on Skruffs without voting when not everyone was in the game.

Whether or not you like the fishing, I didn't receive anything for it, and I backed off once it was clear he didn't have one. Now that everyone is here and there is no scent of a post restriction, and I've apologized, I'm not sure why you decided to vote me over the schizophrenic postings that have been going around.

Unvote, Vote: Simenon

Not that I find Simenon any less perplexing by his vote or attack on you, but OMGUS much?

[Yamahako]

Unvote Skruffs

Vote Cubsfan4ever

[Yamahako]

Check his post history :-/
I don't think sKruffs is the play today, and he's next on my list.

[Yamahako]

Skruff's behavior does not seem unusual to me, perhaps if anything a bit overeager. I'm not really sure why Jack has been getting a pass for his incredibly... odd behavior. WIFOM or something? Err... right no questions. Right, so looking back I don't really get Jack much and find him to be a bit suspicious. He's basically been just randomly voting like crazy then making non-contribution points such as "I agree" and the such. So he gets my fos at the moment.

What about what Jack is doing makes him suspicious to you? I'm not saying I disagree with your assertion, but I want to know what it is about his actions that make you think he might be scum.

[Yamahako]

His repeated voting and extremely short posts with no content look odd.

I wasn't asking for your reason I wanna hear from Cubsfan

[Yamahako]

Suggesting the lynch not today, but in the future. And I think that we all assumed that.

FOSAndrewS

You're planning our lynches ahead? How nice of you...

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote Hemisphere dancer

You've been a bit lurky, I'd like to see what's on your mind

[Yamahako]

unvote, vote: Yamahako

mais, porquoi?

[Yamahako]

Personally, I'm curious about the HD/Yamahoko thing that's going on.

Me too, I thought we were putting pressure on people - but I guess I'm getting voted for speaking french?

[Yamahako]

AND HAPPEH SCUMDEI YAMA~

Thanks everyone

[Yamahako]

unvote (if I'm voting), Vote Cubsfan4ever

How sure are you that Jack is acting off or Random

Ubertimmy, you said that before, have any reasoning behind it?

[Yamahako]

Unvote:Cubsfan4ever

doesn't take much to convince you huh?

[Yamahako]

you meant cubansmoker, right?
because I was referring to cubansmoker.

I'm not assuming anything - just bringing to light something worth considering. THey have had almost identical tactics this game, and don't seem to question each other at all. It's worth noting.

I'm not pro-cubansmoker, but we might be on the same wave length. I hadn't noticed the correlation. But I do like his dislike for Cubsfan, which is a plus in my book.

[Yamahako]

Yeah... cubs gets lynched a lot in games because it's 'cool' not to like him outside of the mafia games. While that's unavoidable to a degree, when you're blatantly using that as a reason to lynch someone, you're not really helping the town. Just a little FYI.

I think he's scummy in this game, I've never played a game with him before - so I don't have any meta reasons for my vote - just what I've already stated.

[Yamahako]

On a similar note, this means that lynching one of you will give a basis as to the alignment of the other.

That's a bit sketchy Skruffs. I don't know his alignment, he may be trying to attach himself to me for all I know. Saying things like this make you look a little scummy. If you see a pattern between two people day one, you might be able to use that day two - but saying lynching one of us will confirm the other? That's scummy...

[Yamahako]

Yamo - I was taking his reasoning one step further.
That you are saying I'm scummy, when He is the one tying himself to you, and not responding to him yourself, is making my ears perk waaaay forward, like an attentive cat's.

It makes me curious as well, but saying that if I'm town he's probably town or if I'm mafia he's probably mafia (and vice versa) is not the logical end to that reasoning. It's a lot of WIFOM.

[Yamahako]

When somebody gets lunched it doesn't matter who came in second place! A vote on somebody who isn't the target of the majority is a wasted vote.

Actually second place matters a lot. If there's a substantial wagon on the second place person and the first place person comes up mafia, you can learn a lot about who voted for second place. A voting record is very important for discerning people's alignment. Your vote is powerful, your vote is important.

[Yamahako]

My list to lynch: (Most lynchy to least)
Scummers
Jack
Uber Timmy
Yamahoko
Cubs (both of them)
Mert
Abbott

If 8 of the players are scum in a 12 player game... us townies are screwed

[Yamahako]

Sometimes cryptic is good. But this is day one for goodness sake. There hasn't even been a night round. Its not like she could have any information that we don't have.

And if she does... then we know what to do with her. Am I right?

Unless she picked up a tell from someone earlier in the day that makes her question it. It's all speculation but if she saw a sub-claim that he's our vig or something I think it's better if she doesn't say anything.

That doesn't mean don't vote him, could be mafia (on either side) trying to pull something - with so much WIFOM if you think he's scummy don't unvote, if you think he isn't and were going on her arguments (if any) earlier than do.

I don't like it when people under suspicion start lurking - it makes me want to lynch them. Townies should talk and talk and talk until they are blue in the face if they are going to get lynched.

[Yamahako]

I'm down with a lurker lynch, day one at least.

Unvote

Vote : Ubertimmy

It won't reveal info about others, though. But it will leave people who have left information out in the open to further squirm.

FOS Skruffs

Man your vote hopping is getting scummier and scummier. We'd get a lot of info from lynching you. I'd vote you but Cubsfan is the better play

[Yamahako]

Beg pardon?

Are you basing the 'scummier and scummier' part of your opinion on my vote hopping on who I'm voting for, or just that I am hopping around?
If it's because I'm hopping around, well, I don't like deadlines. I tend to get lynched when it comes to first day deadlines. I'm nervous.

If it's the votehopping that bothers you, then, why don't you mind that Jack is doing it, and without reasons, too?

Jack hasn't been vote hopping lately, you seem too appeasing to me, as if you are trying hard to be liked. That seems like a mafia quality to me. Jack certainly isn't trying to be liked, he's also very visible. While it could be WIFOM as to wether or not mafia is trying to yadda yadda yadda, your hopping seems more scummy.

Really confused that you would lay something like that out in the open, right before deadline, too. Seems pretty oppurtunistic.

Just in case I die tonight, I wanted to let my opinions get in the open.

Anyawys, back to the game.
Why again is cubsfan the better play? I'll be happy to vote him (Again) if you have a reason, at the risk of being considered "scummiest". Backdooring someone when they've actually notified us that they will eb absent, is pretty lowbrow.

Honestly I think he's been stinking up the place with lurking and crap logic. I won't let the day end in no lynch though - so don't switch your vote just to appease me.

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote AndrewS

for the sake of not no lynching. I don't trust HD's intuition about his towniness (which comes across more like scum trying to derail or disassociate with a wagon). She admittedly hasn't been posting much, which may not discredit her opinion, which makes me a bit more suspicious of her defense.

You really think talking and talking and talking is going to help the town any? This is an honest, curious question.
My experiences have kinda taught me that the more a townie flails the more likely a lazy town will ynch them and the less effort spent on others.

Yes absolutely in every way it helps the town. Why? Because everything you say will be given that much more credence when you are confirmed to be townie after you're lynched. Each person not swayed by logical and effective defense will be more heavily scrutinized, and patterns of scummy behavior will come out more as people respond to your statements.

This game is not about saving yourself, its about catching scum.

You win even if you die, so how in the world could you insinuate that its better to leave your beliefs and speculations out of the discussion when you're on the chopping block?

Sorry, I'm here. It's just been an incredibly hectic week. My problem with the Cubsfan wagon is merely that nobody has proven why he's scum, it feels much more like a meta-OMGUS wagon, but I'll go back and reread later. I still think that Jack's erratic behavior is certainly deserving of a lynch, merely because he will not be helpful to us as town. Will do a reread later today, however.

No one but a Sane Cop can prove anyone is scum or not. Day one you're not proving anything. Jacks erratic behavior did stir up a lot of good discussion. And in playing with Jack before, I can't think he wouldn't be helpful.

But I think it's pretty anti-town to set up WIFOM contraptions right before the end of the day, on a weekend, when nobody is around to really comment on them.

I pointed out what of my opinions are WIFOM. How can you say giving your opinions at the end of the day is scummy? If I die, then people will know what I'm thinking, nearing the end of day is one of the most important times to air suspicion. It can help cops, roleblockers, vigs have an idea on who to target at night if they are having trouble deciding. It can help people have a starting place the next day if nothing can be determined from the night kills. Talking more is always town.

Skruffs, you seem like a survivor, not the role necessarily, just someone who cares more about not getting lynched than helping out the town.

[Yamahako]

Lastly, you telling me how to act as a vanilla townie when you are not doing so yourself suggests you are not a vanilla townie.

I said how to act if you're TOWN, not Vanilla specifically. How am I not posting what I think about what's going on?

And please don't misrepresent me:

That and your intentional avoidance of talking about you and Cuban Smoker's similar thought processes leaves me suspicious.

I don't know his alignment, he may be trying to attach himself to me for all I know. Saying things like this make you look a little scummy. If you see a pattern between two people day one, you might be able to use that day two - but saying lynching one of us will confirm the other? That's scummy...

And of course directing scum/doctors/cops just before deadline is *also* suspicious.

It can help cops, roleblockers, vigs have an idea on who to target at night if they are having trouble deciding.

But if your really stressed about the deadline, it seems like there's 2 potential wagons that have enough support for a lynch, cubsfan and andrew - which do you support and why?

[Yamahako]

As the sun begins to sink... your discussions continue, and you all prepare for the sundown compulsory killing.... just to see where you all stand, the old man returns....

"DAMN KIDS! THIS IS THE LAST TIME ABOUT YOUR STUPID...."

-----------------Votecount-------------------------
Yamahako -1- (Ubertimmy)
Jack -1- ( Cubsfan4ever)
Ubertimmy -2- (Cuban smoker, Skruffs)
AndrewS -4- (Mert, Jack, Abbott, AndrewS)
Mert -1- (AndrewS)

Not voting - (Hemisphere Dancer, Spectrumvoid, Thrawn 1020, )

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

Deadline in a few hours

I should be voting for AndrewS if not

Unvote, Vote andrewS

[Yamahako]

Vote Cubsfan4ever

start where I left off yesterday. Additionally 6 of his 15 posts yesterday were trying to get momentum on a Jack lynch.

[Yamahako]

Additionally 6 of his 15 posts yesterday were trying to get momentum on a Jack lynch.

uhh, by that logic shouldn't you be somewhat suspicious of the people advocating a lynch of AndrewS (including yourself).

Its better to advocate the lynch of people who were trying to wagon now confirmed townies right?

Self Vote Cubsfan, its your only hope at salvation.

[Yamahako]

I'm confused. Isn't someone advocating the lynch of someone they thought of as scum beter than someone who just votes for them for the sake of avoiding no lynch?
What about *Everyone else* who thought Jack was scummy?
And considering he was a replacer, I think it's more likely that he replaced spots with someone who was killed, and that's why he died.
Considering we now have proof of a vig (now dead) and no doctor left, it's also likely that the doctor killed someone - the same person jack replaced with - and that's why jack died. The mafia more likely than not killed the vig.

Vote : Yamahoko

I wasn't saying Cubsfan killed Jack. My point was that Cubsfan was scummy yesterday - and now seeing that Jack is town - looking at who was adamant at trying to get him lynched is a fruitful endeavor. Nearly half of all of Cubsfan's posts were in some way attacking Jack. My theory is that he, as a mafia member, knew Jack was innocent - say that Jack's behavior was questionable and tried (unsuccessfully) to get a wagon going. I think its pretty obvious (unless there's an SK) that the Vig targeted Jack, Jack targeted the Vig, which would cause the Vig to Vig herself - and then Mafia targeted the Vig which led to Jack's death. Incredibly bad luck for us.

I wouldn't be singling him out today, if I wasn't already sure he was scum yesterday. I'd be glad to hear an actual analysis from you though

[Yamahako]

Vote stays. Yamo is pretending to be town while being misleading.

This isn't related to the game, and its not just you that does it - but my name is Yam

A

h

A

ko "Yamaha" like the keyboard company, and "ko."

Its from the japanese "Yama" meaning mountain, and "Hako" meaning box.

[Yamahako]

Actually, the more I think about it, the more Yamahako's Post 359 worries me. Particularly the "I think its pretty obvious..." part.

I don't quite see how it's more obvious that there was a vig kill. As Thrawn said, I don't think a vig would necessarily kill on N1 and I don't see why Jack would swap with Hemisphere Dancer above all others.

I detect a slight reluctance to highlight the liklihood of there being an SK in his post so I'm going to

Vote: Yamahako

for the time being.

An SK makes sense, but the problem with an SK is Jack would have to have not targeted anyone

and

HD would have to have not targeted anyone for it to have ended up the way it did. Unless the SK would have happened someone that Jack Targeted

and

HD didn't target. It's not that I don't think there's an SK, its just I think we are one kill short if there was. But don't take stock in this because its all speculation.

[Yamahako]

I think we should be able to learn a lot just from reading over day 1. For starters, I believe AbboTT was the first person to vote for AndrewS (doctor) yesterday, while Yamahako has not voted for AbboTT/Simenon. This makes me suspicious of both of them.

But I am more interested in ubertimmy, who stressed that he was a very bad lynch shortly before the deadline. We have now lost two power roles, which means the probability he actually is power role is much smaller now. Since ubertimmy is also alive, he is much more likely to be mafia than anyone else.

It is possible that a killer and Jack the replacer targetted ubertimmy, but this is not that likely.

I'd also strongly suggest we do a forced NAME-claim. You may have noted each of the dead townies has the name not of a anime character, but of a Manga. I don't think it can hurt the town to reveal our names. For instance, AndrewS was named Bleach, but Bleach is not about a doctor as far as I can tell.

It is important, if we do this name-claim, that we do it in an arbitrary order. Perhaps the mafia's Manga's are evil-themed, in which case they will have to pick another one. We should try and force mafia to go first so we have the chance to catch them with a counter-claim.

Kudos/Complaints encouraged re: name-claiming

I'm not against the idea of a name claim, however I'm not sure what it will gain us. The only way it should is if mafia didn't get Anime-style claims. Though I supposed if the mafia are "Posing wannabe's" then they wouldn't have true anime... hmmm

Bleach doesn't have a doc (except Ishin, and Uryu's Dad), but there are many characters who can heal other people

The biggest problem with a mass name claim is going to be getting the lurkers to actually post so we aren't waiting forever to hear from them...

[Yamahako]

Welcome to the town of Animeville. You're all such fanatics, most of you are just like your anime!

It seems that some posing wannabe's have entered your town,

and are making it difficult to continue life. Mostly by killing you!

That's why I think Name Claiming isn't such a bad idea. But I agree DONT name claim right now - someone should come up with an ordered list with which to do it to try and force out a fake claim.

[Yamahako]

Ahh... jealousy rears it's ugly head. So the anime isn't important, it's the level of fandom of the wannabes that is important.

I guess that makes the claim largely worthless then, or harmless depending on perspective.

[Yamahako]

Additionally 6 of his 15 posts yesterday were trying to get momentum on a Jack lynch.

uhh, by that logic shouldn't you be somewhat suspicious of the people advocating a lynch of AndrewS (including yourself).

Just was re reading Cubsfan in isolation and came upon this interesting blurb. The one he was quoting is me.

AndrewS wasn't hammered he was lynched by a majority of voters (not a true majority) at deadline. I wasn't advocating his lynch, I got on the wagon because I didn't want a no lynch (I said as much and didn't make any attempt to sway votes toward his wagon). This misrepresentation is pretty scummy, and most of what you've posted throughout the entire game is rather accusatory. You have yet to make a post with any actual analyzation (other than a weak one in defense of yourself).

What's your list of suspicion?

[Yamahako]

I thought I explained the difference in voting to have a lynch instead of a no lynch, and advocating for someone's lynch who is found to be pro-town (and an easy lynch target at that).

Cubs fan was scummy yesterday and I think he would have been the lynch if he wasn't out of town.

So much lost posting in all my games I was super active

[Yamahako]

The case for yama is him voting for someone he didn't find scummy. Yama answered by saying he did that to prevent a no lynch. The issue here is that Yama didn't present an alternative lynch target (if he did, he wasn't forceful enough about it.)

I voted him for that + trying to evade responsiblity.

I was pretty implicit at trying to get a lynch on Cubsfan yesterday, but he was

out of town

so people didn't want to get on the wagon.

It really sucks to lose about 2 pages of discussion :-/ I was making a case against Cubsfan and he was trying to detrail with craplogic - there wasn't a real case against me before the crash - though many people were asking me questions asking me to clarify my points.

[Yamahako]

I pointed out that the mod had simply said that the largest number would lynch. At the point this was clarified by the mod, Cubsfan and Andrew were tied for votes and so his assertion that his vote was to make sure we avoided a no-lynch seemed a little strange at that point.

If they were tied, then I suppose someone would have needed to move a vote one way or the other correct? Though I will admit that I had the impression that is someone was to be lynched they had to have a majority of the votes - as in if there were 7 people voting, 4 had to be voting for the person to be lynched.

So I went back and decided to see why he was suspicious of Cubsfan - all I found on the issue was the following:

See quotes in post above

Out of context, I could see how they seem minor, and indeed my suspicion

was

minor yesterday. I'll explain my entire thought process:
Jack was "random voting" and it was stirring up discussion, not the same kind of discussion that certain people garner when they act odd - real discussion. He wasn't out and out scummy - but his odd behavior was a target. It seemed to me that Cubsfan latched onto that target to strongly, and too easily. That seemed like a scum move to me - that he was working (over 50% of his posts yesterday were to that end) toward the "most obvious" target - even though Jack wasn't really that scummy, and even though Jack was contributing where some others weren't. My read on cubs fan started when he was trying to fish for Jack's role, and continued as he poorly defended his posts and continued his attack for Jack.
When Jack turned up pro-town, it seemed to me that - more so than anyone else - Cubsfan had been pitching for the lynch of a (now) known townie. There were a couple of people non-commitally looking for HD to respond, and there was minor suspicion of Andrew (I noted it before I voted - his disappearance when under suspicion), but Cubsfan was one of the stronger proponents on the Jack wagon, and given his fishing and last nights outcome - I figured he might a good place to start for the day.

He then tried to assosiate my reason attack on him to be the same as my actions yesterday which were completely different - I felt that was a scum tactic to try and misrepresent the situation - another reason I'm suspicious of him.

Unless I've missed something, I couldn't quite find a particularly strong case against Cubsfan - there are a few bits and pieces but nothing where I could go "aha,

that's

his suspicion of Cubsfan, right there".

A lot was lost with the crash, but you're right I didn't come out and spell it day one, as it was much weaker without knowing the alignment of Jack

My post that was lost on this subject was one part suspicion over the confusion of the whole "I had to vote Andrew to avoid no-lynch because he needed four votes" thing and one part question as to what his reasons are for being so sure Cubsfan is the play - he's been on him for a long time now but I can't find anything in his post history that explains why.

I hope its explained now - and I hope it sunderstood why I felt I needed to vote Andrew for the lynch - though I realize that may have been a misconception. But I'll say something that I mentioned before we lost all those posts - I did have some (small) suspicion of AndrewS - I noted it in posts before I switched my vote.

[Yamahako]

thrawn - tha'ts kind of my reasoning, too. We can not accurately speculate what happened last night, until we know what happened last night, and then speculation isn't necessary. Yam sayign that cubs killed jack (if I remember correctly) will keep my vote nestled safely on him.

I'm not a double voter, if that's a worry.

Huh? I didn't say Cubs killed jack, I'm saying Cubs is scummy and suspicious. I have no way of knowing who killed who.

There must be something wrong with my verbage, because it seems no matter how clear what I think I'm saying is, people seem to infer something different in it.

What I actually postulated is that HD tried to kill jack, and mafia tried to kill HD, and jack targeted HD. Though the vig/sk scenario is more likely. HD would have been one of the best mafia targets anyway because of her lack of posting yesterday - Jack was still an "easy target" and could have been put under pressure if he had survived to day 2.

[Yamahako]

It doesn't really mean anything, but Ubertimmy is not very active in any of my games that he is playing.

[Yamahako]

A vanilla townie is a bad lynch, yes, but emphasizing that it's REALLY bad suggests that it's worse than vanilla townie. And since three power roles were killed in a role - something I don't think anyoen would expect to happen - it's worth UT explaining. OR at least sayign that he is nto going to explain.

It would be great to hear anything from UberTimmy - but as I said he hasn't been posting in any of the games I've been in with him.

However - if he is really a power role, I think its a better idea that he keep it quiet - It's possible we have 4 townie power roles to balance a powerful mafia - and the last thing I think we should do it out the last one :-/

But yeah, UberTimmy needs to at least comment on the game - but there's lots of people lurking (like Cubs for instance... great last post buddy)

[Yamahako]

We may want to leave these decisions up to the moderator.

Agreed. It's not our place to decide whether somebody is replaced - sure, we can request it but it's the mod's decision, ultimately.

That said, Skruffs' point about Ubertimmy's soft claim yesterday does have some weight to it. Ubertimmy hinted at a power role and is, therefore, a strong potential candidate for a scum hit tonight. In light of that, I'd like to see him make a big contribution today just in case he doesn't make it until tomorrow. I don't think he necessarily needs to reveal any night actions or claim at this point, but hearing from him would be good.

Good posting!

[Yamahako]

I will have extremely limited access until may 8th

[Yamahako]

Why are there votes on me again? I still don't understand the case - and Cubsfan is still scummy - but

FOS Thrawn

not for the vote on me, but you're jumping around a lot...

[Yamahako]

I also think trying to tie cubs to jack's death was... dumb.

I would agree, except that NEVER HAPPENED. Please re-read you are basing your thoughts off of misinformation.

[Yamahako]

I'd like to hear why the people who are voting for me are voting for me.

I'd hate to think that a townie is going to get voted off because of people are going off of bad information (like the stuff Skruffs is saying). I also want to hear from OTU before we are stuck in a lynch.

Mod

can we get the deadline temporarily revoked so that OTU can get a chance to post?

[Yamahako]

Yama, appeal to emotion. If you are a townie than you should be fighting your lynch by saying who you think is scum and why, instead. MY reasons at least for voting you were placed a while ago.

Yeah, you said I thought that Cubsfan killed Jack which isn't even remotely what I said!

It's not even my lynch as it stands its going to go to deadline again and I'll just have the most votes.

If townies keep allowing lynches to come down to deadline - the mafia doesn't even have to vote to leave a trail they can just ride the indecisive town all the way to victory.

I don't feel I need to get emotional, but I've actually been posting in this game. Look at cubsfan's posts, look at his activity this day. Can you honestly think he's lot lurking? Can you honestly think that he actions this game have been more townie than mine? Read just his posts, then reread the thread. I'm not saying that he's a definite mafiate, I don't have conclusive evidence - but if you guys are going to jump down any one's throat who's trying to make a case for someone based on voting history and post quality - then how will anyone else feel like they can put up a real case in this game? So far the most successful wagons have been on lurkers and someone attacking a semi-lurker (and an extremely scummy one at that). Reread the case against me. It's crap. When I asked people to sum up their opinions it's based on misinformation and misinterpretation.

What does it matter what kind of defense I put up in this game if no one will actually read the game well enough to get their facts straight?

Seriously Skruffs - lay out your case. Your reasoning that you placed a while ago is crap. Show me where you put anything that's real down - because when I go back and read - I can't find anything but you relaying incorrect information or you following the crap logic of someone else.

[Yamahako]

Yamahako: is your case for cubsfan based purely on he's low activity? In that case, there're more people guilty of that.

(As a purely out-of-point side note, I really wish Skruffs and I would stop being in the same games... considering I still can't read him )

No, not really. I found him sort of scummy day one. I found his defense of my day 2 attack scummy. I find his lack of posting since people started to attack me scummy. I find his OMGUS vote on me scummy.

But you don't have to listen to me- you could read the thread for his posts yourself. It's not like its really subtle or anything. If you read his posts in isolation, then read the thread again, you'll see how bad he comes off.

[Yamahako]

Odd, Ubertimmy is still alive.

Ubertimmy never claimed to be a power role Skruffs... trying some WIFOM Mr Scum??

I'm gonna have a PBP on you later, durring night I re-read and I'm not really feeling good about your towniness this game...

[Yamahako]

Mert - Cubs was an SK. That's scum.
Yama - Interesting turn around.

That said, Skruffs' point about Ubertimmy's soft claim yesterday does have some weight to it. Ubertimmy hinted at a power role and is, therefore, a strong potential candidate for a scum hit tonight. In light of that, I'd like to see him make a big contribution today just in case he doesn't make it until tomorrow. I don't think he necessarily needs to reveal any night actions or claim at this point, but hearing from him would be good.

Good posting!

A vanilla townie is a bad lynch, yes, but emphasizing that it's REALLY bad suggests that it's worse than vanilla townie. And since three power roles were killed in a role - something I don't think anyoen would expect to happen - it's worth UT explaining. OR at least sayign that he is nto going to explain.

It would be great to hear anything from UberTimmy - but as I said he hasn't been posting in any of the games I've been in with him.

However - if he is really a power role, I think its a better idea that he keep it quiet - It's possible we have 4 townie power roles to balance a powerful mafia - and the last thing I think we should do it out the last one :-/

But yeah, UberTimmy needs to at least comment on the game - but there's lots of people lurking (like Cubs for instance... great last post buddy)

If he is a power role, he shouldn't have announced it yesterday as the doc was dead. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't have commented on the game at all - that is still a problem we do need to hear from him.

I just don't want anyone putting any hasty votes on someone and seeing a quick lynch.

What I find interesting - and like I said I'm going to expand on this later- is the first post implication of scumminess of someone because of what is largely a WIFOM situation. And being that mafia just need one mislynch to win at this stage - I could see them wanting to see how fast they could get a mislynch by deciding to (last night) not kill someone who may have implied they had a power role by saying they were a very bad lynch choice - and then claiming exactly what you did. I was actually expecting that line of reasoning for momentum on an Ubertimmy/OTU lynch, but didn't expect to see it so soon or from someone I already have doubts about after my re-read.

I'm not defending Ubertimmy/OTU he may very well be scum - but I find your initial reasoning suspicious and suspect.

[Yamahako]

Okay, SK is scum, but I mean there are no dead

Mafia

. If we assume for a second that the number of Mafia in Mini games is generally three then that would still mean we're at LyLo, and that is my point.

If we had 4 mafia, we'd be dead. If we only have 2 mafia we'd be ok - but the likelyhood of that is small. I agree that we are at Lynch or Lose. But its very good that we nabbed the SK yesterday, because otherwise we could have lost already!

[Yamahako]

That's because there's THREE POSTS.

No there's SIX! heh, I'll have more to say later, sorry

[Yamahako]

Beyond that, I don't think that we need to shy away from running OTU up to L - 2 at this point.

Vote: OvertheUnder

Um huh? what about a Mafia bandwagon...

HUGE FOS Thrawn

no one should be voting yet.

I think OvertheUnder/UT needs to claim. I think that OTU/UT may have over stated his importance - as truly every townie is a really bad lynch. I think mafia would have had a perfectly great reason to leave him alive last night if he was town as it would create this scenario we are in.

I think Skruffs was too conciliatory day 1, I think he was too focused on me day 2. The first post he makes basically calling out UT/OTU was kind of opportunistic in my eyes and was pretty much the tactic I was expecting from scum today - quick lynch the person with the best possible case.

Personally I'm going to treat this day like Lynch or Lose because I'd rather be extremely cautious than lose to a fast mafia wagon.

[Yamahako]

Odd, I don't *recall* trying to quicklynch UT/OTU. Did I vote for him? No, I believe not. Did I call attention to him? Yes.
Just like you called attention to Cubsfan yesterday after going after him all day the day before.

I didn't vote you either - if you're mafia you can't put the first vote on - its suspicious

[Yamahako]

Yama, I'm sure that's not what you meant, but that came accross looking like a soft scum-claim.

Yeah, lol, I just re-read that - I mean if

You [Skruffs]

are mafia, you couldn't have put the first vote on OTU, it would have been suspicious...

[Yamahako]

I think OTU should go first if we have a mass claim - but given that he hasn't even posted today - I really don't want to be in some sort of stall patern :-/

Mert, I'd feel comfortable with you coming up with a full list order for claiming - anyone else?

[Yamahako]

There's something different than claiming a role, and hinting at a possible role. I'm very suspicious - but I can see reasons why zu_faul would want to hold off on claiming. It's very possible that Scum thought that UT/OTU/ZF would be an easy lynch target and just ignored the potential for a power role on the basis of using this exact logic to push the lynch.

I'm not saying that's the case one way or the other, but Skruff's eagerness to try to put this to bed reads very sloppy as if he's trying to get this over with quickly in order to end the game. Every townie is a really bad lynch.. even a vanilla. And a townie who wants to try and make themselves a night kill target to try and draw mafia attention from potential power roles is a good use of townie powers.

Why are you so resolute today Skruffs? When you've been far less forward in your actions the previous two days? What's changed?

[Yamahako]

1)Zu_Faul/Overtheunder/ubertimmy
4)thrawn1020
5)Skruffs
7)Yamahako
8)Mert
11)Shanba/Abbott/Simenon
12)spectrumvoid

I think that's the requested claim order right? Zu_Faul - that's a random as you're gonna get to be honest.

[Yamahako]

I am a REALLY REALLY BAD LYNCH.

This is the post Shanba is referring to.

Obviously. I've actually read the thread.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: 617
uhh... good question. He hasn't posted onsite since friday, but he could have just been absent for the weekend.[/quote}
<3 Shanba.

I'm a Townie.

I can't see how it matters, but I want to know WHICH townie.

[Yamahako]

No... I don't believe that. All other characters have ben characters from a show, rather than shows themselves.

Umm....

Players:dead
2)AndrewS-Bleach, Doctor (Lynched Day 1)
3)Hemispher dancer-Trigun, Vigilante(Killed from unknown causes n1)
6)Jack-Naruto, Town Replacer (Obliterated n1)
10)Cubsfan4ever-Deathnote, Serial Killer (Lynched Day 2)
9)cuban smoker -YuYu Hakusho, Vanilla Townie (Found in a Crater Night 2)

Doesn't look like it - though it may amaze you to realize that some shows have the same names as the characters in those shows...

[Yamahako]

And Bleach... that's not a character either

[Yamahako]

thrawn1020 we need a claim from you.

[Yamahako]

Wow. Miscounting nights is a huge scum slip, and Zu_Faul doesn't look much better.

thrawn is almost certainly scum. But I think we should continue with claiming, because its quite possible we could pull the hatrick... two already...

[Yamahako]

More discussion is always better for town guys. Quick lynching Thrawn when we don't need to isn't our best option here. There's no reason why Thrawn won't be our play today, but

FOS

the people trying to get us to night so fast!

[Yamahako]

Yamahako: True, but only if the discussion doesn't revolve around claiming, like it has been.

Why are you so nervous to claim? If the whole point to claiming was to find scum, and we've found 1, perhaps 2, scum from the process - why wouldn't we want to continue down this avenue that has been so fruitful?

[Yamahako]

Well, if you want to discuss claims,t hat's fine, I'm just wary that scum are balking for a way to get a townie lynched instead. There si no way that Thrawn, at town, could have butchered a claim so badly.

/agree

[Yamahako]

I think Skruffs is next..

[Yamahako]

I'm DBZ, townie

[Yamahako]

I do not want to give the scum a night to discuss and solidify their fake claims. We can only kill one person today, so it is very likely that two scum will go into this evening. Forcing a claim now will force them to claim without having been able to work something out between them.

Moreover, the scum can only kill one person tonight. They might go after any claimed power roles, but if we have more than one claim then we will at least have one claimed power role going into tomorrow.

:goodposting: you're next mert - though I understand if you wanna wait to hear a consensus about conrinuing.

What I don't get... is people jumping Zu for Ubertimmy saying he was a bad lynch because "there's too many power roles" and the same people being afraid of outing power roles, there's some riding both sides of the fence going on here...

[Yamahako]

I might actually go with a vote on Mert because of this statement:

During Night One I investigated Skruffs who is a protown/investigation-immune player which is why I said he should choose the claim order.

Scum wouldn't need an investigator... and if you're a cop you couldn't investigate that person... So this has got to be a lie...

During Night Two I investigated OverTheUnder Zu_Faul and got a guilty result, which is why I have been against going after Thrawn for today.

I'm semi-suspicious of ZF too, however - why are you against going after Thrawn? hmmm... possibly because he's your scum buddy? If ZF isn't scum - then trying to get people to vote ZF would end the game. Skruffs (who you've cleared) also went gung ho against ZF at the beginning of the day. Could we have a Thrawn, Skruffs, Mert mafia group?

The cowboys of Cowboy Bebop are really bounty hunters, not cops, aren't they?

That part doesn't really bother me - I don't really see how Bleach is a doc either...

[Yamahako]

Scum wouldn't need an investigator... and if you're a cop you couldn't investigate that person... So this has got to be a lie...

What? I investigated Skruffs. He is either town or he is scum that is investigation-immune (GF, for example). What about that "has got to be a lie"?

Sorry, I thought you said he was an investigation immune townie... I misinterpreted your statement. I withdraw my comments.

@Skruffs - absolutely Zu might be scum, if mert's town than its a given obviously! And Thrawn is almost certainly scum (about 95% sure imo). I had misinterpreted Mert's statement and thought it was a scum slip-up - meaning that Zu was likely innocent. Since that's not the case.. I think we've found two and just need to find the rest - who has left to claim?

[Yamahako]

We're lynching the claimed roleblocker who targetted dead people and has already targetted someone tonight even though it hasn't happened yet. So there could be a mafia-roleblocker but then he would still have known who the mafia targetted.

It comes down to whether you are sure enough that Thrawn screwed up his claim and is therefore scum, or whether you believe Mert is a cop and got a guilty. Which camp would you put yourself in?

[Yamahako]

YAma, I like how you put either/or.. Either thrawn is scum OR mert is a cop...
you don't think it's both?

how do you get that from:

It comes down to whether you are sure enough that Thrawn screwed up his claim and is therefore scum, or whether you believe Mert is a cop and got a guilty. Which camp would you put yourself in?

If you trust Mert, its far better to vote his guilty. If you are suspicious of Mert, its far better to vote off Thrawn. If Mert were cleared - ZF would be the better play because its 100%, because there's a slim chance (VERY slim) that Thrawn just made a mistake and didn't remember what he did exactly.

[Yamahako]

But you are saying that it's either one OR the other.
Why can't it be that thrawn is scum today - by his own admission - AND zu faul is scum tomorrow - by Mert - who is not cleared's - admission?

The way you phrased it is that we have to choose one OR the other. Two separate camps. As far as I am aware, Zu Faul and Thrawn are BOTH guilty, but with a claimed cop or lylo, we have to put scum into the situation where they will kill their threat (mert) and sacrifice zu faul or spare mert, hoping to mis lynch him tomorrow, and night killing me. I doubt I will be around tomorrow, which is why I am voting for what I see completely as scum today.

It's not EITHER OR forever, its EITHER OR today. Who's the best play TODAY. Do you seriously think that the reality of both being scum wasn't already implied?

If we are at lynch or lose (likely), then we have ONE shot at the right guy today. YES ZF and Thrawn are probably scum buddies. But, there is a chance (however slim) that they are not. Since we have to pick one of them to lynch today - then we need to decide what is more credible - Mert being a cop or Thrawn's slip up.

That isn't saying that they both aren't scum - that's saying we need to decide which one is the best chance play for TODAY. If Mert is a cop, then ZF is 100% scum. If we can't determine that Mert is our cop, then Thrawn's slip-up makes the best play.

I think we are still waiting for another claim in any case (unless I missed it which is possible).

[Yamahako]

Fos : Yamahako

Please pay more attentino tot eh game.
EVeryone has claimed, and I have stated repeatedly.

I think we are still waiting for another claim in any case

(unless I missed it which is possible).

So I missed it, when did you state repeatedly that everyone has claimed? I'd pay more attention to your typos, personally.

It is a LOT (read: completely) more likely that Mert scum claimed a guilty on ZU Faul to get the necessary mislynch required to win the game than it is that Thrawn Town misclaimed a role so very horribly.

Excellent, exactly the type of discussion we need to be engaging in.

I have also been voting Thrawn for... how long?
Shanba, Yama, I don't think either of you have voted him, yet.
I mean... seriously, if there are three scum, and thrawn is not one of them, and it's LYLO, and at least one townie is voting Thrawn for weeks, and he's claimed the only role left that has a chance of stopping scum from winning after a mislynch today, and scum won't even look suspicious for hammering him, then DON'T you think scum would have hammered by now for the game win?

More excellent points, I just want to see what other people have to say about everything before I put down my vote. I am being cautious. When people are in lynch or lose, dropping votes willy-nilly is not a good plan.

If thrawn is not scum, then I congradulate the scum on as a group being so entirely patient with the town, and drawing this out so long.
Thrawn is the ONLY safe play, Zu and Mert can be decided on tommorrow.

Good we know where you stand. What do other people think? I'm not really that convinced by Thrawn's latest post, but then again I'm a heartless bastard.

[Yamahako]

Vote thrawn

It looks like no one else wants to discuss our options. Might as well see where this takes us.

[Yamahako]

ZF is obviously scum, but I don't want to hammer until everyone has weighed in. Given a townie will likely die tonight - everyone should get the chance to say their piece.

Especially Skruffs :-/ he's the only confirmed person left

I'll post relevant comments no later than tomorrow evening.

[Yamahako]

Skruffs, please think it over. All it takes is one vote on me from a townie and the scum can win with that proxy.

actually... all it would take is both the mafia members to vote you right now and they would win with that proxy - the fact that hasn't happened yet makes me suspicious...

But Skruffs.. are you seriously sure that's a good idea?

[Yamahako]

Sorry guys, I've been super busy - I promise something soon- but there really isn't a reason to wait for me for others to discuss everything... my planned post will have information on all surviving players - I think it would be beneficial for everyone to weigh on everyone else as well. (well not so much on ZF, as ZF is confirmed scum).

Just really quick - I tend to be a more cautious player and like everyone to chime in before I act. That's why I wanted to hear some dialouge before we voted off thrawn. Especially with a Cop investigation in the mix.

And I did misread Mert as having said Skruffs was an "Investigation Immune Townie" meaning that he couldn't have possibly investigated Skruffs and gotten an innocnet. I admitted my mistake yesterday after clarification.

I just don't want to lose this game for the town!

[Yamahako]

Shanba/Abbott/Simenon:

Vote thrawn1020 I really don't like his fishing for Jack's character or his possible post restriction. It seems like he's trying to get a little too much out in the open that I would care for.

Thrawn didn't fish for Jack's character. Distancing?

Well, I don't understand your argument. We've agreed that Jack doesn't have a post restriction a little while ago, and it seemed pretty likely that he had something or other until he broke the pattern. I don't know where cuban smoker has his vote currently, but it certainly makes sense to support a lynch on Skruffs without voting when not everyone was in the game.

Whether or not you like the fishing, I didn't receive anything for it, and I backed off once it was clear he didn't have one. Now that everyone is here and there is no scent of a post restriction, and I've apologized, I'm not sure why you decided to vote me over the schizophrenic postings that have been going around.

Unvote, Vote: Simenon

Same thing?

No, Thrawn!

Glitzy titles and an armada are no reason to join the dark side.

Unvote,Vote:Thrawn
For falling from the right.


Err... I mean. He wanted a bandwagon. Let's give it to him.
I seriously have nothing in this game. I don't know what to say.... so.... uh....
BLOOD!

unFoS

here's some more...

Thrawn: I can't read him currently. I'm a touch suspicious of his tendency to quickly vote and unvote a player and the way he's been a touch wagony.

There's some more ties between Shanba and Thrawn.

No... I don't believe that. All other characters have ben characters from a show, rather than shows themselves.

Distancing again from a mafia member (this one is really weak though) - it was in response to Zu_FAul claiming Pokemon.

Townies hash up their claims too. Admittedly I've never seen one claim to target a dead person, but it's not beyond possible. Also, Zu's claim is hardly spotless either, after his predecessor hinted power.

Defending Thrawn's claim. This is huge IMO.

Then Shanba starts moving toward Bussing Zu_Faul over Thrawn... We now know that Thrawn was the RBer of the group - if ZF died, Thrawn could have RBed the cop and we'd have been in a worse situation today.

SpectrumVoid hasn't said very much this game - I need to read her posts in isolation. Skruffs, you still seem scummy to me, but unless you're the Godfather you're pretty much cleared. I do want to point out one thing though:

Ha!
Yamahoko's Voting/Fossing History:
vote : jack (for vote hopping)
vote : skruffs
Vote : cubsfan
fos : andrews
vote : hemisphere
vote : cubsfan
-----------
Cubansmoker's voting/fossing history:
vote : ubertimmy (for not posting)
fos skruffs
vote : cubsfan
vote : hemisphere
vote : jack
vote : cubsfan

Cubansmoker has never refferred(sp?) to Yamahoko before, and Yamahoko's only reference to CUbansmoker was directing him to wikipedia.org so he could research some fake roles.
Okay maybe not for the last part, but still... I think they're similar mentality of following each other's leads without actually talking to each other is worth considering.

If you check this again, by the way, it's Cuban Smoker that always followed my lead - not the other way around. I had no way of controlling that, and Cuban Smoker is confirmed town.

And I have never once pointed back to Cuban Smoker and said anything remotely like his being town proves I'm town.

I'm out of time at the moment - I'll post more later.

[Yamahako]

Shanba, I know you can't explain the actions of your previous incarnations, I'm just pointing out to other people signs that point to scum behavior.

Many people tend to put votes on their scum buddies here and there as a way of distancing themselves from their partners - so they can point back and say "Ah ha! see I was suspicious of that person all along!" That's why I was pointing that out. Because while you did not necessarily use those tactics yourself, two of the people that were you in the past did. I can't ask you to defend those points - but they are still valid.

I just wanted to point that out, I'm going to do a more thorough analysis of SV and Skruffs later today.

[Yamahako]

There's no confirmation on Mert's sanity - however it seem's very unlikely given the situation we are in. However since both of Mert's targets are alive - we can't know for certain. I promise I have more coming - I've just been abnormally busy at work.

If Mert was insane, we are pretty much screwed no matter how we look at it. Voting off ZF is the only safe way to check (given that the Cop is more likely sane than not). Please wait on that though... I do have some more to say and I don't want to get nightkilled before I've posted it all!

[Yamahako]

I just noticed the large space between zu faul and the rest of us.

On the town side, we have:
doc, vig, replacer, townie, some kind of cop.

On the other sides:
mafia RBer, SK, some kind of mafia (zu faul)

Whether mert was sane or not can be discussed tomorrow after tonight's night kill.

FOS SV

real quick - If Mert was Insane and we vote off ZF - the game ENDS. We won't have a chance to discuss Mert's sanity...

[Yamahako]

K.
Thank you for your VERY incriminating reply, Yamahoko.

Yamahako

[/quote="Skruffs"]

Fos : Yamahako

(Yamahako: Thanks! its correct here)

vote : Zu Faul

Sorry Zu Faul. Thank you though.[/quote]

I don't follow - how does me saying that it would be very unlikely for Mert to be insane incriminate me based on your logic? I'm not saying that anything you are saying is wrong, I'm just wondering how discussing possibility and potential is inherently scummy. Zu_Faul is, in my mind, 95% scum. I'm never 100% sure of anything (not really anyway).

I don't think anyone is questioning you today Skruffs, I just want everyone to weigh in today because after we lynch ZF - one of us is going to die tonight - and while you're the most likely candidate - who knows if Mafia is gonna try and WIFOM the whole thing by leaving you alive :-/

I've still got stuff to say about SV before the day ends - please give me 48 hours - I apologize that its till taking me so long

[Yamahako]

Hi uber, HD, Skruffs, Mert, jack, simenon!

The Skruffs-void team was awesome! Too bad I'm not scum this game

vote: ubertimmy For disappearing in my game

Not too incriminating, but its important to note right off the bat a vote for UT/ZF

Happy Sappy day! vote: no ly... just kidding. For today, my posts will be less accusatory.

Skruffs: I'm not sure whether I buy your explanation. First off, why didn't you state that your post was a random vote? Second, why did you only explain yourself after someone called you up on it?

This is her first post that made any kind of position regarding the game.

Hm... I buy that explanation.

Yo Yamahako: why the vote on cubsfan?

...nevermind...

I'm of the opinion that Jack isn't scum. This is mainly because I can't imagine scum doing what he has done. (Yes, I'm aware that this is wifomish.) Jack seems more like a weird player instead, but not necessarily scum.

Hm... I'm not getting both cases here.

Cubansmoker seems like he's rushing for a lynch, but it's pretty obvious he wasn't being serious. Same as Skruff accusing HD. Unlike Mert, I don't see anything 'Skruffs insistence at being set up'. The only thing Skruffs said seriously was that he was going to pay more attention to cuban, which is normal.

Some more non-committal stuff here. It has the semblance of substance, but its rather thin.

Shucks... just realised I've probably been mixing up cubansmoker and cubsfan, because in my notes file I used cub for both. I need to go get a read.

Innocuous, but basically invalidates a lot of opinion coming from her.

I'm more-or-less apathetic about the lynch for today.

I don't want Jack to be lynched, because he's been active and he can be read.

I also don't want mert to be lynched, mainly because Mert wasn't nitpicking, and because I don't think he's scummy for bringing up the PR thing. This close to deadline, I don't think scum would have brought that up since it's unlikely it'll lead to a lynch considering we've been over that.

My list currently has Andrew at the top. I'm not really happy with this, because I've seen scum-tells, but not a strong case for being lynched, but I have nothing else to go on.

vote: Andrew

Here, she admits her apathy, then votes for the leading lynch right now. And when it appears that Andrew will indeed be lynched...

unvote

I forgot something important that happened early game. For the record, I think AndrewS is not scum.

I'll get back to this in a moment.

Now that Andrew's role is confirmed, I realise that my assumption of his role name was wrong. I do not wish to clarify further, and no, I'm not doing a soft-claim or breadcrumb or anything else in this post.

I skimmed through. Why are we speculating whether the doc killed someone? I'm assuming either mafia/sk killed the vig/replacer, mafia/sk killed the vig, the vig killed the replacer. We shouldn't rule out the possibility of an sk.

Oh.. your distancing tactic wasn't good enough - and now you are distancing yourself from your distancing tactic?

I'll claim first. Reason is obvious.

I'm FLCL (Fooly Cooly).

AndrewS wrote:
Jack must be FLCL - he makes about as much sense as it does, anyway.


That's why my mysterious AndrewS = town speculation was coming from.

She doesn’tt wish to clarify further, but her next post is a claim, and a clarification - before consensus on a mass claim - before a list has been completed - and completely without any pressure? I think she looks a bit too eager.

revote: Yama

trying to solidify herrself with the popular lynch - and why a "revote" she hadn't voted me yet?

SV post 25,26,27 (of her posts): Putting up a minor suspicion of Thrawn over a very small detail. Perhaps it is a language barrier thing - perhaps it is a distancing tactic. She backs away from it pretty quickly.

How about this?

vote: replace UT

I am against the idea of killing UT, and I'd rather we get a replacement for him.

Defense of UT/ZF. Her next 4 posts surround this topic.

Ok. I just wanted to know what were your reasons, since some other people also feel that he's[YAMAHAKO] scummy (including me, less so with his response but not cleared), with various reasons.

Joining in with the popular wagon, but keeping her self pretty distant. Here she's been asking people why they are voting for me - as if trying to make sure its still ok to go after this townie.

Also - in this bunch of posts SV seems to be placating, or looking up to Skruffs in a minor way posts like:

Skruffs: so why do you think yama is scum?

and

(As a purely out-of-point side note, I really wish Skruffs and I would stop being in the same games... considering I still can't read him )

Seem to me like someone who wants to make friends with a townie.

41: Yamahako: is your case for cubsfan based purely on he's low activity? In that case, there're more people guilty of that.

42: I feel pretty safe doing a unvote, vote: cubs If he's not going to get himself replaced: he's scummy for 1) Adding nothing to the game. 2) lurking in plain sight.

39 hours apart. Why the major change? Was I an unpopular lynch now?

I'm thinking cubs is scummy, not because of the push on him, but because I think that his actions are scummy. Also, that latest post of his stinks of scumminess.

I will be re-evaluating my stand on yama, depending on alignment of cubs if we lynch him.

As a townie myself - this seems to me like double dipping.

I've seen many vanilla townies do that. They have an exaggerated opinion of their own importance. Also, I skimmed through UT's posts and didn't pick up a breadcrumb.

Defense of UT/ZF - which quickly turns against ZF as people seem suspicious of her fear of claiming.

I agree that the claim is pure scum.

I do not agree that we need more claims today. We can always push on for more claims tomorrow if necessary.

vote: thrawn

Very quick to try and bus your buddy - and trying to end discussion that ended up proving very fruitful! (imagine if we had gone to night and Mert hadn't claimed - ZF wouldn't be CONFIRMED scum). You quickly change your tune as well since it appears to be the popular choice to continue claiming.

AS of today, I think she is using pretty crap reasons to try and implicate me. But they are very non-committal.

All in all, SV's play has been under the radar, non-committal, placation in general. It very much appears to be someone who is trying not to be noticed. This was the same basic plan as Thrawn. If it weren't for that car wreck of a claim, would anyone be suspicious of Thrawn? Its a very "scum" strategy. There are few posts of true substance, and very few that introduce new ideas or apply any true objective reasoning.

I'm not going to bother to do all the work on a Skruffs case seeing as how 1.) he's pretty much cleared, and 2.) he probably won't live till tomorrow, unless people really want me to.

For those of your who have me "at the top of their list" I'd like to know why - but it can wait for tomorrow if you want (and I survive the night) - however I find that a bit suspicious since all town members should really want to chime in today just in case. While there isn't much of a strong motivation to defend yourself today - it would be nice to hear responses on the points I've made.

ZF is definitely the play though.

[Yamahako]

How do you know it was an accident?

It was an accident. trying to end the day before I weigh in on SV?

[Yamahako]

Yama, I've been at odds with you through most of the game - as you probably are aware. Most of my real suspicion of you - and everyone - is from the responses to Mert's and Zu Faul's claims yesterday. That is a gold mine.

A shanba/SV/Yamahako endgame. This will be awesome to watch.

You've been suspicious to me the whole game too, I think its our play styles :-/ I was looking forward to building a case against you until Mert told us the innocent investigation. I even misread his statement at first because I was so sure you were scum :-/ "He's an innocent investigation immune townie" heh

I'll vote ZF after Shanba you and SV say its ok to continue.

PS:

Mod

If mert is insane - I hate you.

[Yamahako]

Don't lynch me, I'm doc! That's what UT hinted at Day 1, but it was hard to claim doc, when the Doc was lynched, and I couldn't even claim repalcement as the replacement was killed night 1.

oh, in that case we should all just not vote you to day...

So, we ready to lynch ZF? or do people still want to weigh in today before night?

[Yamahako]

Vote ZF

OK

[Yamahako]

Wow... just... wow.

I have no idea what to think - I was really expecting Skruffs to die and I was going to have to figure out wether I thought Shanba or SV was scum, and I was leaning toward SV...

But Skruffs is still alive... is it WIFOM, or is he a Godfather?

I'm trying to see the angle here... but I just can't see it - unless Skruffs is the Godfather...

This is going to be a lot more work for me

My thought was if I died tonight Skruffs had to be Godfather... And that otherwise Skruffs was the only logical choice.

But then again, if someone thought they had a better chance in the end game with SV dead, then maybe Skruffs innocence wouldn't have been a problem...

Which would lead me to think Shanba - since it wouldn't be hard for Skruffs to vote me and he could end it... But given my post against SV wouldn't it have been just as easy to get me to vote SV?

ARGH!

More later

[Yamahako]

Velly nice.
(doesn't hammer)

Well that pretty much clears you in my opinion, game would have been over if you lynched me. So Shanba is the other scum.

I will go back and show what evidence I can to prove it, please give me a chance to respond before losing the game for us Skruffs (it already looks like you're willing to do that).

I will do my best to build my defense and case today.

[Yamahako]

addition - I will try and have something at least before you leave Shanba so you can respond, I can't

promise

that I will be able to - but I swear to make an honest effort.

[Yamahako]

580 more pages of Harry Potter to go - I will finish it today and get something posted for real if I can. My wife is making us read it together so she can talk to me about it and she's a far faster reader than I am

[Yamahako]

The crux of Shanba's attack on me is actually misinterpreted, poorly...

She mentions my post 8 - and chides me on not attacking someone on something I pointed out. How this is scummy I don't really know - pointing out scummy behavior - but keeping my vote on someone who I believe to be more scummy seems like the better choice to me...

She says that I've been continuing to focus on Skruffs "well into day 2," well that's definitely not true - I came out of the gates against Cubsfan on day 2, and spent most of my time attacking him (albeit at a much smaller scale) on day 1. Cubsfan who ended up being the SK (which I couldn't have known even if I were scum) dying was the first victory for the town. Just because I question someones vote on me and ignore people who are likely lurking doesn't make me scum :-/ for not voting them. Seems a bit forced to me.

I will admit that I had defended UberTimmy. My reasoning for doing so was that he was not involved in the game - he had also disappeared from many other games I was in with him. It's a very scum tactic to focus on people who aren't around to defend themselves, and its very easy for a frustrated town to be persuaded by it. But as you'll note (or not since you want to get Skruffs to vote me off so you can win Shanba) I did ask him to start posting.

I've explained post 75 MANY times now. I thought Mert was claiming that Skruffs was "an investigation immune townie" which would have been impossible for Mert's cop claim to determine. You will notice I did NOT vote him and immediately retracted my statement upon Mert's clarification.

You hate the way I look to a cleared player in post 80 for information? Especially one I had been pretty wrong about the whole game?

I didn't defend ZF - when ZF showed up I asked for a claim, when ZF claimed and you had a crap reason for disbelieving it I called you on it. I defended people wanting to lynch UT because of lurking and a statement that could have been said by ANYone. I will admit that it was suspicious that UT had lived after that night - but then again the scum let Skruffs live last night too.

I put up a case, not an attack, a case against you. I also put a case up against SV. Had I not been really busy I would have done one on Skruffs as well (though I had assumed he would die last night, so I also didn't want to waste time on it). In the event that I had died I wanted my opinions of the game state to be known. That's always my play style. Its always in town's best interest to talk. If I didn't try and keep the claim going on Day 3, then we might not have a confirmed ZF scum, and a confirmed Skruffs townie. Given that scum did what they did LAST night - there would have been a far greater chance of a mislynch. But who was one of the people trying to curb the discussion? Shanba? Who jumped incredibly quickly to voting under dangerous circumstances Shanba? (not so dangerous now, since we know the two people you voted for were ZF and Thrawn... huh?).

My lack of votes on the now confirmed scum (especially thrawn) aren't damning evidence either. Thrawn wasn't under scrutiny of any kind from ANYone. And UT only made one suspicious statement at the end of day 1. How many people DID vote UT and Thrawn day one?

What I do understand now is this, however. If Skruffs had died last night - who would have been easier to convince? Me that SV was scum, or SV that I was scum. That might have been a hard sell. I didn't advertise that I thought SV was more likely scum (because of her under the radar play this whole game), so you wouldn't have known that. Perhaps you thought that the easiest sell was convincing Skruffs that *I* was scum - given his focus on me throughout this whole game. That could easily explain why SV died - because she was much more withdrawn and less predictable in your shaky end game.

If I were scum, the ONLY logical night kill would have been Skruffs- we fought the whole game - convincing him that someone else was the last scum would have been (might still be, based on his responses) impossible. And what is seriously the likely hood that I took out SV on the hopes I could get you to go with a Godfather scenario? You said yourself that I was your top pick for last scum. If I was going to try that it would have been far better to kill off you and let SV live. Especially since you've shown (multiple times) you're not afraid to haphazardly vote when it could cost the town the game.

I'm going to place my vote now - because Skruffs is 99% innocent in my mind, and its going to come down to him anyway. He could have ended the game already if he wasn't.

I have played this game consistantly Skruffs - I have said who I've been suspicious of and been completely open this entire game. I saw the problem signs of Cubsfan and - in danger of becoming lynched myself- stood by my scumdar and got the SK removed before he could kill again. I've acted with a level mind and always worked for more discussion. Even if my actions regarding the lynch of the doc were based on a false assumption on my part, and even if we didn't see eye to eye this game - I think you know I've been playing as hard as I can for a town win. Cautious behavior is not the same as scummy behavior. Rash quick voting is the sign of a desparate scum trying to bully others into acting.

That's about all I can say - but I'll respond if you have any questions.

Vote Shanba

PS: Harry Potter was awesome!

[Yamahako]

OMG I'm sorry Shanba - I keep thinking your name is a girls name. I sincerely apologize for the misused pronouns in the above- I usually double check everything before I post I caught it on a re-read.

Also check my post on Shanba at 760. He wasn't able to mount any real defense of her actions - and though no one can explain what people they've replaced mean by what they did - I showed MANY distancing tactics used by people he was before. While Shanba wasn't using those tactics himself - It's important to point out.

Also remember - Shanba "wanted" (his word not mine) to vote off ZF over Thrawn. Thrawn was the roleblocker - ZF (we now know) was the Doc. ZF would have been worthless given that the SK and the Vig were already dead. Thrawn could have blocked Mert- and raised more suspicion without giving away another innocent- if he had lived.

[Yamahako]

Yeah it has been.

Bites his tongue

I reread the entire game, and it's very hard to find a link between scum that doesn't exist between Both Players. Simenon and THrawn had a bizarre conversation with each other day one, which initially pushed me towards voting for Shanba, but YAma 'didn't exist' to thrawn at all. As in, Day two, before cubs got lynched, yama was at three votes - enough for an easy hop on by scum - and None of the scum hopped on. UT voted him all day day one, but ignored him day two.

That combined with the whole UT's a townie thing and everything else...
I've decided to stake my self in

Vote : Yamahako

If I am wrong, at least I got your name right. Maybe shanba killed off Spectrumvoid because he knew I would be more likely to vote you than she would be - although SV was also anti Yama as well. You set upan attack on SV yesterday, but she died without really responding, and then you acted surprised that she was dead, which would also be considered a gambit. You never really put up a case against Shanba.

I don't know. I could be wrong, but that's what I am going to go with.
Shanba/Abbott/Simenon, if you are the scum, congradulations.

Sorry you missed the case on Shanba (both of them) and sorry we lost

[Yamahako]

Nice job Skruffs, I knew after the plane crash that happened on Day 3 it would take something crazy to let me win - you saw through it anyway.

Sorry guys I tried my best :-/ Nice play Shanba.

[Yamahako]

Did the SuperKill hit Jack and go through to HD?

[Yamahako]

train wreck of a claim
you should have immediately bussed both of them... shanba didn't, you could have easily gotten shanba taken down the final day
so why did you kill SV last night?

SV didn't have much of an opinion on anything the entire game, you and Shanba were gunning for me the day before.

My thought process was - Shanba seemed most open to the idea of a Godfather, or at least didn't dismiss it outright. You had some small suspicion of Shanba the day before. I couldn't predict what SV was going to do - so I did what was the least obvious option and get rid of SV. You being alive would be suspicious, giving Shanba something to think about. I thought I could play both angles - the Skruffs Godfather angle, or the Shanba scum angle which ever panned out the best.

[Yamahako]

Did you actually change your mind from Shanba to me Skruffs? or was it a ploy?

[Yamahako]

I ALMOST killed Skruffs instead of Mert on Night 3, seeing as how he investigated SV - it might have been a good play :-/