Mini 1420: The Beginning Of The End (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

hey trollie ur town who should i vote?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Elleran

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Jennifer

I think.

Nope, not me. I did really think Trollie was scum though.

My best guess right now is that scum killed Dannflor for being obvtown, and an SK killed Trollie. I think if it was a town vigilante they would have gone for Kthx for hammering over Trollie for leading the lynch.

This doesn't make sense. You thought Trollie was scum, but you don't think that a vigilante would have the same thoughts as you?

[Nachomamma8]

q21, why didn't you vote goodmorning or myself?

[Nachomamma8]

But I'm totally posting tonight. A good post. There will be something in it for everyone.

i'll race ya

Also, yeah, I can't give you like actual number odds, but it's what's logical and is based on my experience.

Don't actually know how I feel about Q's last post. I'm having mixed feelings about it since it reads townish and I had him at scumish.....

why did it seem townish?

[Nachomamma8]

joels is obvtown, DRK is cool town, ztife is town, om is town, kthx is town, goodmorning is probably town
(q21, Slandaar, Jennifer)
are the three i like the least

Vote: q21

[Nachomamma8]

3/4 PR out of 7 town alive helps us narrow down things considerably

Scum can fakeclaim but it will be obvious when they do.

really
because massclaims are kind of shitty when we have an SK
since they kind of cut through the PRs pretty easily
and if we have a massclaim then he will have no reason to claim town

[Nachomamma8]

Why do you think we have an SK?

I love the cognitive dissonance; if it cant be a vig then why would they ever claim vig to begin with?

i don't necessarily think we have an SK
but the possibility exists, and it makes massclaim shitty

the cognitive dissonance you're seeing doesn't actually exist; the "town" on the end wasn't supposed to be there

GM, Ztife and you. All people I get scummy vibes from but want to read better. My memory of you (old though that is) is that regardless if I vote you or not you'll post enough that I can try to get a read. GM...not sure I'm ever going to be able to read her, her presence on the wagon and process of elimination will have to suffice. Ztife looked the most likely to respond to a pressure vote in a useful way, so here I voted.

isn't it a little too late in the game to keep going for pressure votes?

How is joels obvtown? I can see a noobtown read, for all that I wouldn't agree with it. And seriously, how do you get a town read of Mr Bad-Om-Vote-Then-Won't-Take-A-Stance-Against-Anyone Ztife? Not to mention your certainty that Om and GM are town. Do you actually find me scummy, or is it just process of elimination?

no i definitely find you scummy, don't worry about
and your worries about my townreads... if you want to put out better cases on them, then i'll explain my reads on them

[Nachomamma8]

Not even close to true DRK. Wagon analysis and night kills are the only non-speculation info town gets. To not use them is stupid.

lynching off the wagon doesn't mean you're not using them
it just means you're going with a better suspicion off the wagon
you would have done better to spring this "trap" when there was a special reason to lynch on the wagon

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: SLANDAAAAAAAAR

remember the last game we played together

[Nachomamma8]

YOU WERE THERE TOO KTHNX
HAPPY BIRTHDAY

[Nachomamma8]

Is there any record of DRK doing this posting binge/picture spam thing in the past? Has DRK expressed any suspicion of Slandaar in the past, or is this OMGUS?

medical records show that it's fucking town as fuck
and that you shouldn't give a shit whether it's OMGUS or not; DRK's posting is clearly not coming from a defensive state of mind. it's coming from a "hey i just found scum let's kill the fuck out of them".

[Nachomamma8]

mindset.
and i tried to post that post so many times MS redirected me to the first page
i didn't even know they did that

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho is also suspect for giving Ztife a town read (higher than the probtown read he have GM). If like to hear his justification for that because can't think of any.

if you can't think of any, then you're tunneling too hard
but it's already kind of shown that you're tunneling too hard by giving me a scumread for calling someone town
luckily, it makes me think i am wrong on you and need a replacement read

my biggest problem with slandaar's push to massclaim is not that he pushed to massclaim. that's whatever, everyone makes mistakes. but there's the concentration in wanting the vig to claim first, which makes no fucking sense unless he has a really strong SK suspicion (which he fucking doesn't or else he wouldn't have tossed out the 7 town number, and instead would've said 6/7). then there's the push on DRK, which is for thinking that he's trying to stand up for what's standard and "clearly" not looking at the facts. which tells me slandaar scum thought that his massclaim proposal would be like OH SO TOWN. and the whole "OH YEAH WE'RE GONNA LOSE A PR TONIGHT IF WE DON'T MASSCLAIM" is weird. because massclaiming means that we will lose a PR tonight.
soooooooo

[Nachomamma8]

unvote

still not time to massclaim
and it's pretty funny that i don't believe you even a little bit
but we'll see

[Nachomamma8]

if we decided to massclaim, then yes that would be a good idea.
i still think it's a horrible idea to massclaim. maybe a little bit less than i did before, but it's still a horrible idea.
you also wouldn't be conftown with an un-CC'ed doctor claim

[Nachomamma8]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1375

first game i clicked on, look at that!

[Nachomamma8]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=575

but the real kicker is

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
where the only protective role was a one-shot roleblocker in a JOAT, which actually isn't a protective role

[Nachomamma8]

no, those three roles will not be conftown.
we will still have to guess who is fake-claiming and who isn't
and if we fuck up doing that, scum will kill shit and it will be bad

[Nachomamma8]

1394 doesn't even have a vig

what, and you think that makes your point stronger?

[Nachomamma8]

You don't think even/odd night + gunsmith makes complete sense from a setup POV thereby making them all conftown? i mean the vigs obviously are and then the gunsmith if he claimed first its very very clear, if after its still pretty obvious unless scum fakeclaim what? cop, cops getting lynched first.

scum claims jailkeeper
hell, what if scum claimed doctor?

[Nachomamma8]

1394 doesn't even have a vig

what, and you think that makes your point stronger?

So, you think you can say X produce Y to support X then when I say Y doesn't support X you think I am using Y as my argument?

Scum.

you said you were conftown because it's guaranteed there's a protective role in the game
i give you three examples of mini normals without protective roles
and you're all "OH BUT THERE WASN'T A VIG IN THE SECOND LINK"
which doesn't actually take anything away from my point because those other two games still exist

[Nachomamma8]

YOU WERE IN 1242 TOO WHAT THE FUCK

[Nachomamma8]

its still a 1:1 trade for the gunsmith at best.

how the fuck is a jailkeeper claim a 1:1 trade with gunsmith
how

[Nachomamma8]

and when the fuck did you decide that massclaiming was the best thing ever, and why do you think you will see everything clearly after everyone claims? you sure as hell didn't go "FUCK YOU GUYS, -L- IS CONFIRMED TOWN" in 1242.
and why are you so crazy with "don't agree with massclaim? fucking scumbag" because it's shitty and i don't like it and shows you actually aren't using your brain
and why do you think the 1:1 trade with the gunsmith shit?

[Nachomamma8]

I'd say Town vs. Town.

if you're referring about Slandaar and I
i will strangle you

[Nachomamma8]

were the links clearly wrong?
no they were not.
second link didn't include a killing role, other two did. your point of being conftown was proven wrong.

[Nachomamma8]

WHEN DID YOU GET SUCH A HARDON FOR MASSCLAIMING

[Nachomamma8]

and yes. i understand that you need to massclaim in order to understand everything. but it doesn't make sense why you weren't like "oh, don't lynch L right now! L will be confirmed town if we massclaim!" since you love your massclaims so much

[Nachomamma8]

no i'm not fucking metaing you
you know when you started liking massclaims
you can show yourself going crazy for massclaims in a game
or i can put you back to L-1

[Nachomamma8]

2 vigs basically confirmable mason they can confirm each other
JK
Gunsmith

Sound legit? no, so JK or Gunsmith dies.

sure it sounds fucking legit
it certainly is not obviously not legit
gunsmith: two vigs, two false positive results. basically built to be outed for no fucking reason.
jailkeeper: oh, the gunsmith outed? better protect his dumb ass. oh, now vig claimed? oh i can protect this one on odd nights and this one on even nights so i don't accidentally roleblock them! and now that they are outted, scum will probably go for the one that can't shoot tonight but can shoot tomorrow! swag.
so it's not a confirmed 1v1, and you couldn't sell that to anyone

[Nachomamma8]

having 2 vigs that can confirm each other; note a guilty from gunsmith does not mean the vig is lynched it just means a massclaim; is very strong. You have 2 confirmable town who can kill at night.

2 of them

this doesn't answer anything

[Nachomamma8]

Cop + Two Shot Vigilante + Jailkeeper is stupidly strong

[Nachomamma8]

Day 2 Massclaim led by... me.

in a newbie game?

Talking about massclaim d1 setup doesn't really count but you can see it.

massclaiming in an open setup is different

Massclaim day 2

then both power roles were shot over night and scum-Thor ran train on you

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4077798

and the only reason it did something amazing was tinker tailor soldier spy
so that's obviously a special case

[Nachomamma8]

you're not giving me what i wanted
i'm trying to figure out where you found massclaim to be such a powerful force in this, and all of those things don't help me do that at all
but i did a bit of meta despite being tired as fuck
and i guess you are town

Vote: Psyche

you still have to sell me for massclaim though. massclaiming is essentially scumhunting the moderator, and I have no idea what Jason will be like as a moderator. and it's not something we need to fuck with now. confirmed town tomorrow is better than confirmed town today, and we won't have the good confirmed town tomorrow if we massclaim today.

[Nachomamma8]

it's also bad to massclaim today specifically because of evens
if scum roleblock and kill vig, they can fuck things up a bit and take away one of our kills
and i hate people that take my kills

[Nachomamma8]

roleblock vig, kill doc
roleblock vig, kill vig

[Nachomamma8]

except for our town-directed kill

[Nachomamma8]

Scum have an rb means town has a lot of power

and you're doing that thing again
where you make assumptions that are not necessarily true

Anyways I did intend to claim bptown and not claim doc if I could help it if we did things properly instead of this nonsense.

Now all thats happening is I will die one way or the other and guess what? town just lost the PR I said they would without a massclaim

Amazing.

ok but that doesn't mean that massclaiming is cool for today
i will push it through tomorrow hell yeah
but that doesn't mean it is good for today

[Nachomamma8]

The irony

Sland: lets massclaim I will die its ok we will have tons of info for today to lynch/vig scum.
Everyone: lol no you can't die instead lets lynch or let you claim only and scum nk you

Genius.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
somebody call the waaaaaambulance

RB is a stupidly powerful scum PR which needs to be balanced with town power hence town has a lot of power when scum has an RB.

Think about this

Just Think

Massclaim today is the same as tomorrow. Except by doing it today we have more information earlier.

a roleblocker on its own isn't that strong on its own because it has to identify power roles and THEN block them
it's not so strong where its presence means SUPER TOWN POWER

[Nachomamma8]

Massclaim today is the same as tomorrow. Except by doing it today we have more information earlier.

and that reason i mentioned that you completely ignored

[Nachomamma8]

I KNOW WHY MASSCLAIMS ARE GOOD
MASSCLAIM WOULD BE BETTER TOMORROW
holy jesus

[Nachomamma8]

It is definitely better today.

I still see no argument against it only 'WHAT IF X' which is focusing on one variation.

then you can't read

[Nachomamma8]

what if all of our prs die tomorrow
that's the worst question ever

[Nachomamma8]

TvT for Slandaar vs. Kitty/Frog/whatever

Nacho still a null read. The whole exchange was theoretical. No blood involved.

Nacho! Case me. Bring it. Come on.

here's a case for you.

[Nachomamma8]

Is this the part where I OMGUS?

no, this is the part where you stop talking shit and start scumhunting again

Slandaar's main adversaries on the masslcaim issue are town. Both taking a townie stance, neither doing so in an scummy or opportunistic manner.

What would a "scummy or opportunistic manner" be?

Explain why Nacho is Town without using his purely theory points.

and not drk?

[Nachomamma8]

oooooh

Vote: goodmorning

i was gonna question her more, but nah

[Nachomamma8]

psyche is still scum though!

[Nachomamma8]

goodmorning what is going on with you right now

[Nachomamma8]

you know what i mean
where's the passion

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: q21

this one, frog
this one.

[Nachomamma8]

PSYCHE YOU CUT THIS BULLSHIT RHETORIC OUT
CONGRATULATIONS YOU CAN TYPE HALF WORTH A DAMN
IF ANYONE FUCKING HAMMERS/ASKS FOR CLAIM YOU'RE MY MOTHER FUCKING VALENTINE
AND THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING

[Nachomamma8]

Bitch, plz. (I'm so sorry for calling you that; it's not serious; just go with the roleplay; it'll be fun)

Let me 'pretty much summarize the basics of this case' as you seem to have a problem understanding it. I just made a wallpost - a fucking wallpost - laying out a case against you. And you have the nerve to say that there's barely anything around? Let me make this crystal clear.

I don't give a damn how crappy your ideas are. I've played a lot of games with very many very terrible very stupid players with very many very terrible very stupid ideas. I cannot even begin to relate to you just how frustrating these experiences have been, but I am inured. I am quite comfortable with the fact that townies can be terrible. But you aren't a townie. You are opportunistic, disingenuous "insta-frustrated" (quote tags for the 'yeah, right' effect) scum.

The fact that your reasons for voting slandaar are terrible aren't why I'm voting for you. Lots of terrible votes have happened, even in this game. I'm voting for you because you are scummy.

this block of text says nothing

You jumped onto the Slandaar wagon for dubious reasons. It was a huge jump; you'd defended him just a couple posts beforehand. But there was a tide, and you saw a chance. Opportunism, not crap, is what attracts me to you. Who is attracted to crap? That's not evolutionarily adaptive at all. >.>

goodmorning is opportunistic

And when confronted about this opportunism, your response has been sooo weak. It literally doesn't make sense. The principles of rationality are violated thoroughly. Why? Because you're looking for a way out but there isn't one. You can only avoid the gravity of the case by 1) avoiding the case with vague whatevertheheck674was 2) recharacterizing it to make it less threatening (post 679), and 3) AtE the hell out of everyone.

And now your AtE has been uncovered as fiction. A lie. The lie, itself, is another scumslip. You're producing bullshit to cover up bullshit.

and i didn't like how you responded to me earlier case

SO SORRY EXCELLENT CASE SO FAR SORRY FOR IGNORING IT

[Nachomamma8]

No, this still sucks. When a player does something you find suspicious, you always examine his supposed reason for doing it. Especially for proposing a massclaim. Because his supposed reasons for doing it are the ONLY way you can differentiate between town seriously thinking something is a good idea and scum trying to pull a fast one.

If you don't examine the justification, you are deliberately skipping a critical step in the whole scumhunting process. It doesn't make any sense.

What you're saying is also dubious. You are definitely voting Slandaar for theoretical reasons - because you think massclaiming is a bad idea, rather than because Slandaar has done something suspicious.

so goodmorning is scum for voting slandaar for pushing massclaim. okay.

all you say about Slandaar in this post is that his theoretical argument is no good and announce that you want him dead.

oh this is saying the same thing. i guess reiteration is a good thing sometimes!

Town suffering from a behavior =/= behavior being scummy.

That's the distinction between antitown and scummy. I'm sure you aren't ignorant of it. You are playing stupid and now backtracking from a terrible but opportunistic bandwagon.

oh... i guess... this still says the SAME FUCKING THING

[Nachomamma8]

don't lynch z please
lynch q

[Nachomamma8]

How is joels obvtown? I can see a noobtown read, for all that I wouldn't agree with it. And seriously, how do you get a town read of Mr Bad-Om-Vote-Then-Won't-Take-A-Stance-Against-Anyone Ztife? Not to mention your certainty that Om and GM are town. Do you actually find me scummy, or is it just process of elimination?

^this shit is terrible

[Nachomamma8]

I started the wagon based on PoE (mostly on recent activity in thread) and VCA of the Elleran lynch. Psyche later put together a full blown case, his summation of which is quoted below for your benefit.

====[] Please.

especially when coupled with this
q's contempt of PoE doesn't make sense when that's what the wagon he cares about so much is about
unless he's scum

[Nachomamma8]

poe

[Nachomamma8]

Two things here. First is how he links himself and thereby his image to one of the games better, townier posters = scum move. Second is the request to lynch trollie which is followed up in his next post with a jump to kthxbye just about out of nowhere, which is, yet again, buddying up to Dannflor.

Seems that its about time for me to be voting Elleran again. Maybe the earlier hints of scumminess weren't so playstyle related afterall.

this is a pretty scummy post
he calls elleran town and tries to white knight him
but later, when he's needed to push the lynch through, he just goes for it like he never had a reason to call eleran town in the first place

[Nachomamma8]

UGH NACHO
I'm just tired
I keep losing by being stupidlynched, it's a bit silly.
I think I see another stupidlynch coming on, and there's not really much of a case for me to argue against. Not much I can do about it.

^this is why goodmorning is town
last game with her, she threw her lot in with me and we argued for walls and walls and pages and pages
she loves a good fight as scum, puts up with less bullshit as town

[Nachomamma8]

Slaandar, q21, kthnx, high on my scum list. Elleran should not have been lynch D1, it was a crap lynch and a crap hammer.

Doc claim was pretty stupid imho, but I'm pretty sure Slandaar is doc.
If there is a real doc he should claim now so that we can lynch this fake claim, or vig the fake counter-claim anyways.

and this^ is why Ztife is town
confrontational and not really paying super close attention
scum Ztife isn't that confident

[Nachomamma8]

and when the top two wagons suck, you join a flashwagon

[Nachomamma8]

UGH NACHO
I'm just tired
I keep losing by being stupidlynched, it's a bit silly.
I think I see another stupidlynch coming on, and there's not really much of a case for me to argue against. Not much I can do about it.

^this is why goodmorning is town
last game with her, she threw her lot in with me and we argued for walls and walls and pages and pages
she loves a good fight as scum, puts up with less bullshit as town

Uh-huh.

Have you ever played with her as town? Or have you compared this to anything more than "that one time in my last game"?

I have.

kwll has literally lied twice in this game to try and defend his read on me.

I can prove it

Needs to be lynched at some point.

kwll seems genuine as fuck, don't want to lynch

PoE alone (what you seemed to be accusing me with at the time) is bad. VCA alone is bad. Combination of the 2 is better to the point of being enough to start a wagon. Psyche's case and GM's subsequent response to that case and her wagon add to it to make it good reason for a lynch.

bad+bad =/= good

Seriously, this is bullshit. I challenge you to find a day 1 post where I call Elleran town. Then find one where I white knight him. Hell, try and find me doing both in the same post. Go ahead, do it. You couldn't, could you? Like I said, bullshit. You're either mistaken or just outright lying. And the "but later" is misleading given that this is the actual post in which I revote Elleran - which you conveniently edited out.

yeah i fucked up you didn't call him town. DRK's post was a more accurate portrayal of events.
the other things in this post are nitpicky as fuck and stupid

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, is this based off of a meta read on him or is it based off of his posts in this game? Yes, this is important to know.

it's like 99% meta

[Nachomamma8]

i want to dance with psyche
i don't like the push on goodmorning
i don't like how he's handling the q wagon at the moment (ignoring it and being like MY CASE IS SOO GOOD)
the town v town thing is something i fucking hated and i think that he meant to call me/slandaar townvtown because saying "oh i'm going to figure this out" and then coming back 8 hours later doesn't make any sense at all to me

[Nachomamma8]

Maybe. Slow down, cowboy.

[Nachomamma8]

you're stretching yourself too think, slandaar

[Nachomamma8]

thin*
way too fucking thin

[Nachomamma8]

i'm going to ignore the shit out of it like any normal human being

[Nachomamma8]

VT, Psyche claims next

[Nachomamma8]

mala, claim.

[Nachomamma8]

choose someone to claim next
jesus

[Nachomamma8]

no just fucking wall me

[Nachomamma8]

WHY ARE YOU VOTING KWLL

[Nachomamma8]

Nice, I hate my own slot's post 88. Complaining about pages to read overnight/during the day is really scummy to me. I have recently seen some scum players complain about it.

why did you say this?

I already know my own alignment, but if I was a speculator looking in - I would have been convinced that this post is a telegraphed 'HEY SCUM BUDDY CALM THE HELL DOWN'.

or this?

I kinda like DRK's post 257. I don't get the reason why she would put the damn metaphor into it. It's basically adding nothing. Feels as if she's trying to give too much explanation for a vote that could be explained without going round-round.

that's DRK's posting style and it is what makes him enjoyable
don't attack playstyle

I don't see how Z or Joel is town. I dislike your lack of explanations. Explain, please?

joel/kwll is town mainly from kwll being completely fucking different from last time we played together and he was scum
in particular, the "short and sweet cases" exchange we had was REALLY FUCKING AWESOME and was kwll bleeding town

Also, why can't it be a bad vig? Why does it have to be a SK?

they suck too bad to be a vig

[Nachomamma8]

also please clarify that DRK scumread
and why is q21 leaning town and not just town?

[Nachomamma8]

NO
NO
THAT'S NOT THE ANSWER I WANTED MALA
THAT'S NOT WHAT I WANTED AT ALL

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Malakittens

choose who you want to go next in the massclaim please

[Nachomamma8]

hey goodmorning

Vote: Malakittens

[Nachomamma8]

FUCK YES ZTIFE

Vote: q21

aaand malakittens is still scum

[Nachomamma8]

mmmm
actually
we should *probably* finish the massclaim
but q21 is 99% scum who fucked up a fakeclaim
and ztife is town as all hell

[Nachomamma8]

Yep. My current read on GM is good too. Let's discredit my whole wall.

too bad
the whole wall sucked

q21-mala
who's lucky scumbag #3?

[Nachomamma8]

Trackers don't visit - they track.

are you 100% serious right now
?

[Nachomamma8]

secret vca-fu says kthx is probs last scum
but that doesn't feel right
could it be
drk?

[Nachomamma8]

NO FUCK NO
KTHX IS #3

[Nachomamma8]

q21-mala-kthx
i win

[Nachomamma8]

Oh god misread. Still I wouldn't have said 'visited'. I guess they are interchangeable words.

Plus, if I was a tracker I would have tried to track someone who was scummy rather than tracking a protown player in my eyes.

who gives a shit what you think
he didn't announce a read on jennifer D1
which makes it
a fine fucking track

[Nachomamma8]

who gives a shit what you think

not like your opinion doesn't matter
but your reads =/= Ztife's

[Nachomamma8]

I'll let you go on your ego-surge Nacho. Just because I have seen town tunnel the living shit out of me. You're wrong though because if I was scum right now - I'd be playing a LOT better game.

...?
so you play as shit as town?

[Nachomamma8]

and you're completely okay with someone going "oh, mala is playing decently, she must be scum"...?

[Nachomamma8]

Right. Now you backtrack after being aggressive as hell. Whatever, if my opinions don't matter. I wasted enough time out of my night where it could have spent elsewhere rereading.

So since I don't matter maybe it's better I just replace out rather than staying in here.

no i tried to say your opinions did matter because i see how that could be worded wrong
and darling
we can work together
i just don't think u are town

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: I really really considered sheeping your Mala read, but I don't trust you not to be Scum right now.

i trust you!

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not great as town, but I'm a hell a lot better as scum. I'm improving as town which means I'm not great as others, but decent. As scum I have been known to lay low and stay out of radar's.

so you think that your play here is too bad to be associated with your scum play?

[Nachomamma8]

I will not ego lynch you because I love you and I don't mean to make this game unenjoyable for you. But I do have a solid suspicion on your slot, and I respect you as a player (scum and town) to let you slip through the cracks because your play is sloppy. Don't need you to give me anything amazing today, or tomorrow, and probably not within the next week. But I do want you to explain your DRK scumread better, I would like you to read this game and check out how opportunistic scum kwll can get, and I would like you to refine your scum pool a little bit so you have 3 scum suspects and then a bunch of people you consider town.

[Nachomamma8]

what motivation does ztife have to counterclaim q21's cop with his tracker?

[Nachomamma8]

motivation q has to claim cop is to avoid the lynch
motivation ztife has to claim tracker is to get the cop lynched today and get himself vigged.
cop/tracker/vig/doc is already a bit stupid

[Nachomamma8]

i claimed vt.

[Nachomamma8]

i think
we don't want to make assumptions about where scum are hiding in the massclaim
before we're done massclaiming

[Nachomamma8]

VT, Psyche claims next

this?

yeah

[Nachomamma8]

Do we want to finish it today though? If you all are so sure Q is scum based on Z, then I don't see a reason to out the possible town Vig till tomorrow.

i think so.
vig claiming means what's essentially a confirmed town, and we know that if Ztife gets a result tomorrow, that person is confirmed scum no questions.
if mafia go for vig instead of doctor, there will also be 7 people alive tomorrow, and if he hits scum, we'll have 2 lynches and a free track to catch the last scum.
vig doesn't need to survive longer than tomorrow

[Nachomamma8]

then if he actually claims vig, then he's a fucking idiot and i'm going to laugh my ass off

[Nachomamma8]

i'd rather not explain that now, for obvious reasons
but yeah idgaf who claims next
i guess
jennifer
but i don't really care

[Nachomamma8]

Except this setup analysis is kinda special as we have 2 claimed investigative roles.

Also, I'm basically confirmed town the more I think about it. If Q is scum fake claiming, he knows I'm town thus his 'result'. If he's a Cop, I'm still town. Only way I'm not town is if Q isn't sane or Q and I are both scum. Neither of those are true as an insane cop would have me as not-town and I'm not scum with Q.

this is also not true

[Nachomamma8]

IF GM is SK which I am not sure on we do not want to kill Q

we are lynching q today.
there is no debate.
if you know how massclaims work, you know that is the only logical route to take.

[Nachomamma8]

GM fears death too much so I would not trust her as a vig ie as SK she loses obviously

Please lynch Mala today.

your paranoia is stupid as fuck
cop doesn't make sense in a SK/tracker/doc setup, doesn't make sense in a vig/tracker/doc setup
tracker is either a false positive on vig or a real positive on sk
cop's investigation results need to be tweaked to make sure he gets an innocent/guilty result on the SK that the moderator prefers
gets a guilty on all three mafia unless godfather, which doesn't solve the cop/doc scenario

lynch q21, shoot mala, protect ztife, track whoever the fuck
then we take care of kthx tomorrow

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Malakittens

I think that Jennifer is scum. I'll do a little research if you'd like, but I think that neighbor-vig/neighbor-VT is an odd combination. It makes a bit more sense for it to be neighbor-vig/neighbor-goon, because then it's a game of who can figure out the person I'm paired with is scum/power role first, and rewards them with first jump on the kill. But that's just a feeling for now, will see if there's a precedent for it later.

[Nachomamma8]

@Frog Join me on Kwll?

Okay.

Vote: Kwll

frog get off kwll

[Nachomamma8]

please.

[Nachomamma8]

Mala, are all of your reads based on interactions with q21?

[Nachomamma8]

Mala, are all of your reads based on interactions with q21?

[Nachomamma8]

You shouldn't shoot unless *WIFOM* because we're at an odd number.

How are you feeling today, goodmorning? Did you have a good morning?

i trust her.
she can deliver a bullet tonight and a bullet tomorrow night if we trust her, giving us 4 kills to catch the scum instead of 3
do you trust her?

Given Kwll was on site tho not posting I don't think malascum makes Kwll conf town but does suggest we should look hard at other possibilities too before any lynch.

Okay. I will say this I have submitted night actions in the past for a fellow scum buddy who didn't make his way into the QT for two nights in a row. I think you're reading too much into Jason's post. If Jason did not say Kwll site flaked its obvs that there would have been too much information given out and it would have confirmed Kwll as scum. To counter a mod having to give too much information out they have to go by site-date.

DRK, I didn't quite put too much stock in your theory, but the response from the scumteam tells you there's a pretty strong chance that you are correct. Good work.

[Nachomamma8]

What I don't understand is how everyone not including me wants me dead today. This should be a red flag at least to me it's a red flag. It shows that I'm an easy target along with if its a 3 scum team that the 3rd scum needs to sit here and bus in order to get me lynched. Everyone including Z is disregarding his own role result on the basis of 'the other partner did the kill' so she still must be scum. Condemning me without asking giving the chance I might be town that didn't actually move because I'm a VT.

we've given you plenty of time to defend yourself. the tracker result doesn't clear you (or even make you significantly likelier town), so that's why we're mostly ignoring it.

I think it's getting about time to hammer you, in fact. Game is stalling, we need our scum lynch.

[Nachomamma8]

by scumteam i meant you/mala, sorry
i forgot you folks weren't technically flipped yet

[Nachomamma8]

who else is scum?
(don't say kwll replacement. it's not kwll.)

[Nachomamma8]

I do the same as town...actually I fight harder when I am scum....you have my vote.

vote q21

ESPECIALLY SINCE KWLL OF ALL PEOPLE HELPED ME GIVE THE Q21 THE MOMENTUM IT NEEDED
KWLL
i miss you, buddy

[Nachomamma8]

seriously i get self-righteous and angry whenever people call that man scum
he was town as fuck and my friend

[Nachomamma8]

so don't say kwll

[Nachomamma8]

Your tunneling is getting so out of control it's not even remotely funny. I answered your damn question twice in fact. Just aren't reading my posts.

Ever heard of possible distancing/bus? Did you ever think he jumped on because his buddy was in danger?

Yeah. Hammering me with 9 days left to the DL is smart and when you put us in LyLo when I flip town and possibly endgame by telling GM to shoot tonight and he misses and ends up killing town is an even worse idea.

appeal to fear now
i already reached out to you once. i'm not doing it again.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: DeathRowKitty

2) So yesterday (as in day 3, not RL yesterday), I did some rough plotting stuff out in a Notepad document (that I've since lost in an unfortunate smelting accident) with the conclusion that goodmorning should kill if and only if scum didn't kill her (so basically, as long as scum didn't know she was killing). Nacho's strange push to get her to shoot frustrated me yesterday for helping take away our WIFOM control and making it super-likely (even moreso than it already was) that goodmorning would kill while advertising that fact to scum. I don't think Nacho would make that oversight on his night kill. This is a weak reason because Nacho as scum could have reasons for wanting to keep goodmorning alive that would outweigh potential night actions, but it's something to note.

had Ztife survived, he would have a result, meaning we would know the alignment of a player without said player being dead.

and i don't think kwll bussed. kwll in other games has awkward interactions with scumpartners. will do meta research later, but w/e i don't think kwll bussed.

[Nachomamma8]

it's pure PoE right now, baby
poe and your reaction to Kthx's vote on q21, and how many times you hopped on and off that motherfucker

[Nachomamma8]

Unless you count my start-of-day-2 kthx-sheep vote on q21, I only unvoted q21 once, and that was to get on a wagon I thought had some chance of competing with the L-1 goodmorning wagon. Not to say I didn't prefer Ztife-scum to q21-scum at the time.

I do count both unvotes. I'll also note that attacking Om early then not attacking Psyche just a *tiny* bit even though he was pushing the goodmorning wagon you hated so much was sort of strange.

By "reaction to Kthx's vote on q21", do you mean the fact that I followed him without question or my post after he explained his reasoning? If you're referring to the former, asking for a reason would have been bad. If you're referring to the latter...well then I don't really have anything useful to say.

Referring to the latter.

[Nachomamma8]

good work GM
i was hoping i could bait the SK into claiming vig so that we could direct kills, since there was no way in hell that we were gonna have to pull out the win if SK shot obvtownies, to give the mafia someone to shoot, so they couldn't shoot the tracker...
but my reads weren't good enough

very fun game though+