Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Firstly, I have never been an advocate for town controlled "kills". I find the hurt system to work in a similar fashion. The entirety of being able to hurt is that a small group of townies who know they are town can overcome the odds.

I find that with the coordination that scum have over town, "town" controlled kills become anything but.
In the same fashion, we should be publicly using rage points, but NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE TOLD HOW TO USE THEIR RAGE. If people are to use Rage, they need to be accountable for it. You don't want the scum team manipulating rage. Town intent will shine through with Rage use and we'll figure out the scum faster this way.

Personally, with the Hurt mechanic is feel VERY VERY similarly to the Rage mechanic, but the issue is that while Rage is limited, Hurting is only time sensitive, and it can become very out of hand. Confusion hurts town just as much as placing all our eggs into the "town controlled" mechanic.

I think the best solution might be to, at certain points in the game (let's say every 3 days?) have everyone announce who they want to hurt (without actually hurting them), and then we apply 1 hurt point to the people chosen per every 1 nomination they get above one. (I.E: if Quadz had 3 people who wanted to hurt him, 2 people would put hurts onto him).

This way, people are ACCOUNTABLE for their hurts (and can't just follow a popular train of thought). The only issue I can think of with this plan is that it can potentially leave people open to scum Rage killing.

But if the Rage works the way I think it does, if all townies only use their rage in thread we should be able to determine who used rage to kill a target if people rapidly come in and heal up the people who remain hurt. (Someone correct me if any of my assumptions are wrong.)

In the end, the biggest issue I've learned with these kinds of strategies is that if everyone is trying to do their own strategy then the town will ultimately fail. Even if I don't agree with the idea Tierce and past players have put forward, if that's the more accepted plan I will follow it just for the sake of a solid plan being followed in the town, so that people can focus on scum hunting and not on mathcrafting/plancrafting.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, I'm against massclaiming for the time being, unless someone can give me a really good reason why we should be outing our Power Roles.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Even if I don't agree with the idea Tierce and past players have put forward, if that's the more accepted plan I will follow it just for the sake of a solid plan being followed in the town, so that people can focus on scum hunting and not on mathcrafting/plancrafting.

I agree with this.

I'm not really sure why lynching people like this is normal mafia is a bad thing though, LLD. Do you consider the lynch to be a less powerful and useful weapon than a vigkill?

I consider a vigkill infinitely more powerful than a lynch. Especially when

everyone can do it

. It's a matter of accountability and intent. Yes you can learn a lot from lynch wagons and things, but it's my opinion that scum can more easily deceive their intent when it's a wagon full of people, and their accountability isn't as high. You see a lot of compromise lynches, lynches just to lynch, "information" lynches, and all of these can be coming from town or from scum.

So yes, there is a skill in deciphering which is which, but I think it's a HELL (heh) of a lot easier to decipher motive if people are directly accountable for their actions and they have to show their intent in every move they make.

Just like a Vig who shoots someone who isn't the town consensus, they need to be accountable for that kill and the intent behind it can reveal quite easily whether they are a serial killer or an actual vig. (it's the reason why you won't see very many SKs claim Vig).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I should have stated that I have a visitor from a far and away land for the weekend, so I'm a little bust until Monday.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...

Busy. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Posts 158 through 161 are tantamount to a scum claim for Matt.

Also, I see no reason to give Matt any BoP Tierce. You've shown an argument about his self proclaimed town meta, and he isn't sticking to it.

Further, you can't get fake rage past the Queen of Rage. That whole comment about your mother was loaded with tons of goodies that scum love to use. Baiting into a spiraling conversation, combined with some absurd form of AtE seeking to gain you some form of sympathy in the manner of "oh he was just in a bad mood, he was being bad town".

All of it stinks.
------------------------------

On a separate but related note, are we just going to let the voting plan go through? Because while I don't want to drag this out I'm annoyed/worried people like Tierce and Yos won't address my concerns about a pseudo voting system.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because while I don't want to drag this out I'm annoyed/worried people like Tierce and Yos won't address my concerns about a pseudo voting system.

Sorry, wanted to address this the other day and forgot. I think your plan is a bad idea, because that will result on several players with reduced health. We have limited Healing power in this game, and that would leave people far too open to attack. I understand the interest for accountability, but that just means that we have to try and study wagons a different way.

That said, I agree with the "settle on a plan

and stick with it

" idea. The most damage I've seen in previous games was from endless theory discussion that ended with both parts trying to play their way.


Did scum gain Rage/other powers from being involved in a Town death in previous games? I'm wondering if we should only let general Townreads inflict Hurts--like scumreads should be the ones Healing surprise Rage attacks.

How would we determine whose definition of "town" is used for this?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What "town" words are you referring to?

...that said, it would probably be ridiculously hard to implement. It's hard enough to herd cats (heh) into getting communal scumreads, communal Townreads are yet another layer of difficulty and slowing the game down.

When you talk about "general townreads" how do you expect to get a consensus of a group, is what I meant.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think I need to point out that in the last WiH game, Magua (scum) was the one in charge of the vote count and was considered very obv town for it.

I had a death warrant on the head of whomsoever tried to take that role for themselves this game. Especially given that it's the only real content PV has posted...

Yeah I'm ok with killing Matt (who has mysteriously disappeared since being pushed) or PV right now.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

How have I disappeared? I posted within the last hour. I actually, and maybe it will come as a SURPRISE to you, don't enjoy playing with you whatsoever in games so try to simmer down your abrasiveness just a little bit as a favor to me

First off, you've posted null pertaining to the points being brought against you by myself and Yos to my satisfaction.

Secondly, I see nothing abrasive about my comment, only you trying to worm your way out of pressure.

Thirdly, I don't give a fuck if you "enjoy playing with me" or not. You will answer for your shit or you will die.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As for PV

pedit: I actually have a LOT of good townreads right now and if I pushed anyone it would be really rough and counterproductive,

so I'm just going to wait until the lil sheep I'm spying comes back to graze in the fiery pits of hell.

This was in reference to PV's first post, which gave me a scumvibe mainly before of the fluffy non-productive way of it.

I see your point. However, If this is a normal sized mafia game, there are 3 scum. If 2 town and 3 scum decides someone dies, you can guarantee it'll be town that dies. This doesn't have to happen more than a few times to screw town over.

I think that we should stay with 7 for the first lynch. If this doesn't appear to work, we can modify for next lynch.

The killers should be the ones voting.

Votes will be tracked.
Votes without reasons should be subject to the most scrutiny.

This also seems very postured and too dumbed down / stiff, specifically the bolded parts. I don't see a SLIP like you supposedly see

I don't like when he calls me scum out of the blue, but I don't like it any less than LLD's comment, which I'm very curious to genuinely see her response to my post to her.

Oh boy I missed this until I saw Tierce quote it.

So let me get this straight. This is the mother of all setup posts to hop onto me in your next post with a vote?

Because that's what it looks like you're doing buddy. Bet you were hoping to get away with it too with that whole "abrasive" bullshit you started. Trying to devolve this into a bunch of useless insult war and pointless argument about how you don't like me or something of the sort.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

You're gonna have to account for the fact that you've now gone from Charter to Tierce to Charter to PV to Tierce to PV to Me in a matter of PAGES with no logical progression to show for it. First sign of you trying to worm your way out of this with bullshit excuses or trying to fight me with the whole "you're abrasive and mean wah wah" shtick, you're dead.

Now go ahead and make my day.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've been following.

Tierce, explain like I'm five: why should I not be proceeding to beating the snot out of Matt?

I know I'm not Tierce but I think the answer here is basically because we as a town decided that we were going to kill people in an orderly fashion and not randomly hurt. We had the mechanics discussion on earlier pages, you can quickly peruse through that. The long and short of it is that the majority of the town wants to implement a voting system to determine who we kill and when we kill them, and that everytownie agrees that the town needs a singular unified plan.

So basically, letting your desire to have MattP bite the dust is the direct equivalent to your above suggestion, just more diplomatic (if that's what you were looking for.)

If you're looking for reasons why MattP might be town, I'm not your girl sorry.

P-Edit: Ninjacat has failed

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

Because (I think) then you won't get the benefit of the accumulation of health from rage? No wait just reread, because then you'll be up one once rage rolls around and unless you're conftown we can't have that.

You can only ever be at +1 above your maximum health, so I can't accumulate any more health than I already have (which is +1 max).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

There is literally nothing to lose from Healing him (you'll lose one Health point till your Accumulation, putting you at your original health temporarily, and that's it--it's a loan).

Believe me, I fully understand and sympathize with your stance here, but that is the kind of outlook that will lead to petty "I'm not Healing you!" down the road.

Hurting won't be made much more complicated by an extra Healing now, we have plenty of people to use. But it protects a bit against scum rage dumps.

Yeah, and down the road there will be most certainly more situations in which I will have problems complying with a town request I don't subscribe to.

This is what I was talking about with "whose definition of town" and "accountability".

Likelyhood is that while this heal will have no real severe consequence, future heals might and precedent is important. I'd like to discuss this a little more before I commit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyone surprised that Matt is doing EXACTLY what I said he would?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bit busy right now, can't add anything content wise at the moment, but as per requests and keeping a unified town plan: HEAL: PeregrineV

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually, I have given it a quick read through and I have a few things to say.

Firstly, I don't see how I was misrepresenting Matt's disappearance from the game. When he was pushing for Charter to answer his questions, and fighting with Tierce, his activity was off the charts. He had an entire page that was nothing but him and Quadz posting back and forth. I don't think that him suddenly dropping his content level to a place where it was noticeably different and in my opinion trying to lay low, immediately after pressure started to mount on him. You're going to have to explain how that's a misrep Quadz.

Secondly, I don't see how my point about his setting up a vote on me is stretching, over the top or anything of that sort. I called him on flip flopping his reads like a mad man, like a scum who is trying to find a vote that will gain some traction to save himself. I saw his posting about me and immediately recognized it as a setup for a future vote. You'll notice that I was not incorrect and that he has followed up on what I said he would. So I'll need an explanation on how that's a misrep too.

Finally, given I've explained all my thought processes very clearly this game, and answered every question directed towards me (except that stupid one about parroting Tierce's reads because that's obviously untrue[p.s if you're looking for an actual misrep, you need not look any further]), I'm curious how Zdenek can claim that Matt simply wants me to "explain myself" and then ignore the fact that Matt has LITERALLY explained NOTHING this game. He's answered NO questions posed of him, not about his town or scum reads. So I'd like you to explain firstly how I didn't explain myself and 2) explain how it's ok for Matt to demand explanations but not for Tierce or I to do so (it would appear you conveniently ignored this).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm assuming that post is directed mostly at me, LLD.

1- I really don't see how you think Matt disappeared after pressure hopped on him. He responded to people voting for him and calling him scummy, then people discussed other things, and that's when he disappeared. That's aside from the simple fact that being away from MS for a few hours (even immediately following a heated discussion concerning oneself) is not an alignment tell at all. Being gone for a couple of days? That I'd buy as a scumtell. A few hours, no way no how.

2- "I saw his posting about me and immediately recognized it as a setup for a future vote." That is an outrageous statement to make. I feel that the only things making Matt's posts read to you as "he's mentioning so his vote later won't seem forced" versus "he pointed something out about me and later voted me for it" is confirmation bias.

3- I'm not sure this is directed at me, because I don't think I've said that you haven't answered questions directed at you. I do think that claiming at this point that Matt hasn't answered questions posed to him, because I think he has (at least in the past few pages, maybe not so much during the initial rant).

It's not the amount of time, it's the frequency of posting and the content he was posting. Just because someone posts something every day doesn't mean that they're adding content to a game. This is what I'm driving at. The second pressure applied to him, he tried to lay low on Tierce and I, which he is still doing by avoiding our questions and points.

I will grab you the post that made me think the second in just a moment here. I'll even bold what made me think it.

3rd one wasn't directed for you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As for PV

pedit: I actually have a LOT of good townreads right now and if I pushed anyone it would be really rough and counterproductive,

so I'm just going to wait until the lil sheep I'm spying comes back to graze in the fiery pits of hell.

This was in reference to PV's first post, which gave me a scumvibe mainly before of the fluffy non-productive way of it.

I see your point. However, If this is a normal sized mafia game, there are 3 scum. If 2 town and 3 scum decides someone dies, you can guarantee it'll be town that dies. This doesn't have to happen more than a few times to screw town over.

I think that we should stay with 7 for the first lynch. If this doesn't appear to work, we can modify for next lynch.

The killers should be the ones voting.

Votes will be tracked.
Votes without reasons should be subject to the most scrutiny.

This also seems very postured and too dumbed down / stiff, specifically the bolded parts. I don't see a SLIP like you supposedly see

I don't like when he calls me scum out of the blue, but

I don't like it any less than LLD's comment, which I'm very curious to genuinely see her response to my post to her.

Oh boy I missed this until I saw Tierce quote it.

So let me get this straight. This is the mother of all setup posts to hop onto me in your next post with a vote?

Because that's what it looks like you're doing buddy. Bet you were hoping to get away with it too with that whole "abrasive" bullshit you started. Trying to devolve this into a bunch of useless insult war and pointless argument about how you don't like me or something of the sort.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

You're gonna have to account for the fact that you've now gone from Charter to Tierce to Charter to PV to Tierce to PV to Me in a matter of PAGES with no logical progression to show for it. First sign of you trying to worm your way out of this with bullshit excuses or trying to fight me with the whole "you're abrasive and mean wah wah" shtick, you're dead.

Now go ahead and make my day.

I bolded the setup for you.

This is a typical scum play. I've seen it done and done it myself. You state your curious for a response, giving the setup of logical progression, then wait for a response and then vote them for the response, either giving a BS reason (usually something opinionated, like GUT or "reaction testing" etc.) or just giving no reason at all. The setup was there and further, after calling him on it he did exactly what I said he would in response.

I don't see how I'm stretching with this at all.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I just don't see how you can

know

that motivation exists. You present it like it is fact. I'll agree that it's a valid possibility, but it's far from a certainty.

I'm Lady Lambdadelta, Witch of Certainty~.

Basically, I play my reads mostly by intent. I find intent reads to be the most valuable in the game. It's my honest opinion that his intent there was to make the setup and the response I got, in my opinion, proved me right.

I present it like a fact because that's how I do things. I am certain I am correct, and I have no room for doubt. Even in situations where I am wrong and find out later, if I don't have faith in my reading capabilities I can't expect anyone else to either. Further, if I don't have faith in my ability to do what I know I can do, I'll second guess myself into oblivion.

Doesn't mean I don't pay attention and change my reads as they go. Doesn't mean my reads are static, infact they're quite dynamic. It just means that I'm very confident in what I see and I'm willing to push it until I see something that makes me want to stop.

It's never worth doubting your instincts, intuitions and general reading ability just because something is technically only a "possibility". At least not in my opinion and in my playstyle.

So in short, yes from the point of view of a person observing this game, my statement would only hold water as a possible event, from my point of view, given what I've experienced, the position Matt was in when he made the comment and how he responded to everything, I feel I can say these things with a given amount of certainty.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD: I understand. Just know that it will make people question you more than they would if you were to present things in a different light.

Tierce: this thing where you call yourself obvTown is annoying as fuck so stop it, especially because you aren't this game. You're probably town, yes, but far from obvAnything. That said, I agree with you on PV, and I will join you in this crusade.

VOTE: PV get your ass in thread and post some actual things please

Of course. Playstyle things are playstyle things. Personally I like being questioned on my reads like you're doing because it means people are

paying attention to my reads.

It also provides another method for me to observe their intent in a DIRECT manner which is WAY more effective than trying to decipher intent from a conversation I wasn't having.

Everybody is the winner! \o/

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, I'm down with this. Wanted PV dead from the minute he was posting those votecount shenanigans.

Vote: PV

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually, hold on.

Unvote

ABR, Kayne, Scooby, Voided (just replaced in so different than these other three) all need to provide sufficient content to this game before I feel comfortable putting PV in the hurt range that Kinetic is suggesting.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok... now I'm almost getting skittish. I want to unvote until he at least returns enough to say something, but at the same time I feel like he might very well lurk or replace to buy himself time. Especially if he's scum...

You need to stop being a ninja. It's hurting my feelings.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think I agree with them both to be honest. I'm more interested in getting an answer from PV in addition to answers from our lurkers than I am about a time limit for these things, however I agree that dragging on may not be to our advantage as a town.

They call me Happy Medium Cat.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Voided, you need to explain in your next post how and why I am a null read. Go.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm sorry, but while I am all for killing PV and I think his response to being hurt is super scummy, I do not think he has "broken" any rules.

The second you hurt him Kinetic, even if it's within the rules, it opens him up to hurt you back if he thinks your scum. No player should ever have to sit there and watch as the town kills them without being able to present their own case.

No, I think this is part of the accountability clause. If you're going to be on the wagon to hurt someone you're fairgame for retaliation. Now, whether that retaliation is townie or scummy is entirely distinct and separate, but this should 100% be the rule. I'm calling it the 1v1 accountability clause and it WILL be implemented.

Now, as for Tierce's VC, the meta changes when I call out someone on putting up a VC being scummy. It becomes very WIFOM as to whether scum or town would try and start that back up. Null tell from this point forward, the VC scum tell may only be used once if the subject doesn't know it's there. Good enough Xalxe?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The second you hurt him Kinetic, even if it's within the rules, it opens him up to hurt you back if he thinks your scum. No player should ever have to sit there and watch as the town kills them without being able to present their own case.

No.

If you are town, and the town has decided to lynch you, your job is to A: convince the town to not lynch you, and B: convince the town to lynch someone else instead. Just like in any other game. Firing random shots at that point is totally unhelpful, and is pure anti-town behavior.

Keep defending yourself until the point of death, sure, keep making cases against other people, but attacking is bad, and could easily push us in to MAD syndrome.

I have a major problem with this once people start hurting someone I find it VERY unlikely they'll stop. I don't know, you might be right about the MAD thing but I am still very very concerned with accountability in this game. (If you haven't noticed from all my theory posts basically being about this >.>b).

Can you suggest to me a better way of making people who hurt onto a wagon accountable for their hurts? I mean as always I'm all ears to suggestions about theory for this game, especially if it gets the theory crafting out of the way so we can actually scum hunt.

Peregrine, was the QT not released by Flay or one of the scum members?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Exams coming up, a little behind. I'll post more asap.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't mind healing Kinetic but should I wait until I accumulate back my health to 1 above the Max? Anyone? Yes? No?

Also, I would have hurt PV but someone asked for no one else to hurt PV incase scum get stuff for being on a wagon or something? I was skimming because exams but I seem to recall reading that and I didn't have a problem with it.

P-Edit: God Dammit Xalxe, do you even read

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yes I read? Sorry for healing him?

It accomplishes nothing because now you drop to where he would have been due to the healing rules as I understand them (you only regain 1 within the time frame even if you heal multiple times)?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah but be real here: who would you rather
have one down? Hmm?

Firstly, for the sake of town unity, neither of you.

Secondly, if I was considering things considered by my mind, I'd say him over you any day. I really doubt you're scum in this situation.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right, so I, like Matt, have probably the most important Final of this term tomorrow and as such won't be posting anything today or tomorrow. I have skimmed the thread to make sure I keep up but I'll do a more complete read again when I get back on Friday.

A quick note however, if people have questions @ me they want answered they should compile them in a single post that they can reference to so I don't miss anything while I am busy.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alright, I'll re-read today and get stuff done.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: MattP

That ABR interaction is the last straw. I'm not changing this vote. He's scum and he dies.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Matt is STILL doing this flip flopping around BS where he tries to find a line of suspicion that will stick.

He's STILL scum, and the interaction with ABR was bad because he basically said that ABR was scum for a multitude of reasons, ABR called him out on something in his post, and Matt tries to get him to answer BS questions about what he pointed out instead of answering ABR's PERTINENT question of "Where are your points why I am scum?"

MattP got called out for not having any real points to pin ABR with and tried to flail his way out of it, and that was the last straw for me. (Zdenek there's your answer).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Spoiler: Hey, LLD, does this looks good from ABR?

1) Kinetic, Yos, and Zdenek are town. I greatly foresee town pushing through me, Zdenek and Yos as the next three mislynches. I will defend them vehemently. I will be coming up with my Zdenek is town case first to get back to whoever asked me about that

Town will push for mislynches? I'm confused. Don't you mean scum, Matt?

1) Kinetic, Yos, and Zdenek are town. I greatly foresee town pushing through me, Zdenek and Yos as the next three mislynches. I will defend them vehemently. I will be coming up with my Zdenek is town case first to get back to whoever asked me about that

Town will push for mislynches? I'm confused. Don't you mean scum, Matt?

Hey ABR suppose I really meant town. Explain how that's a scumslip

Yeah, maybe Matt needs to work on a case. However, you're conveniently ignoring how ABR completely sidesteps Matt's question to 812 and instead asks about a case when that point isn't even related to what Matt brought up. Do kindly explain how this is less important than "OH NOES MATT HAZ NO CASE!"

Did I not just reference that ABR pointed out this? I don't see anything wrong with this series of posts. I have an opinion as to why ABR said what he said (mostly that it was to draw Matt out so he can force his case out of him, which is congruent with the REST of the interaction), and Matt has yet to show us SHIT of what he said existed. So far he's only been pushing ABR on things he has said AFTER his original calling him scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So you don't find ABR sidestepping Matt's question about his comment on that post to be scummy at all? Also, I do think there's a good amount of implied scumminess ABR is trying to put on Matt with 812.

Also, it's kinda stupid to ask for a case when Matt already said he would get to it, so.

I think you're missing the point that pressuring for a case is important and townie to do.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...Not when A.) It sidesteps a good question to ask, and B.) said pressure is irrelevant given certain words the pressured (Matt) said.

Except A) It's not a good question and B) The pressure isn't irrelevent because Matt has a HISTORY OF NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS/FOLLOWING UP ON HIS "SUSPICIONS".

So yeah, no. What you're saying doesn't hold water.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Look, I'm not letting MattP live another day unless I hear a damn good argument as to why someone else needs to die more first.

And so far the ABR case isn't doing it for me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Quadz, can you explain to me why ABR over Matt? You've expressed strong suspicion of both.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sorry about being absent, was flying home for Christmas.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alright, so just from a quick peruse of the recent events, I'd like to have a vote count and a hurt count posted so I can see where Scooby/Fate is.

Mod?

I absolutely REFUSE to let Fate be killed before he gets a chance to post. My gut read on Scooby was already leaning town (it's been a while since I've looked at this seriously due to exams and travelling, but I remember this fairly well), and Fate is just too strong and polarizing of a player to just kill without letting him affect the game. I guarantee he will help me get not just a better read on his slot, but a better read on other people too.

So yeah, making my stance now that any further hurts on Fate will be met by a heal from me and an immediate FoS. Speaking of:

FoS: Kinetic and Quadz

[Lady Lambdadelta]

After that response I'm ok with just killing him.

Yup.

HURT: Scooby

Also, I've had a pretty longstanding townread on Tierce. No one post in particular I can think of right now, just consistent towniness. Kinetic would also be in that list for me, since I've just realized that I apparently derped and left him out.

And again. Both of them seem in a real big hurry to kill Scooby before a replacement comes in.

Worried that the replacement might inspire more confidence and be competent enough to save the slot maybe?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like seriously, this has gone beyond being a "response to Fate". It can't be attributed as that because of these two posts before the replacement is announced.

I want some answers from both of you about this matter.

MattP, I need an answer from you about something. Explain your thought process concerning the "Kanye backing out of his town read" comment. It's very important to my reads currently.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Though, notably, kinetic only remarked that he was much more willing to let him die while quadz was rather trigger-happy with his hurt?

Perhaps the impatience is true for both of them, but there's a certain level of degrees that I think you're missing, LLD.

P-EDIT: Read, missy. Read.

Show me where I'm wrong, or stop answering for them.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm just frustrated that we finally found an agreeable lynch, and now that's likely to no longer be the case. blech.

And uhhhh, I already talked about the hurt and how it was a dumb move that I made while distracted?

P-EDIT: Hi there Fate how's it goin' bud

I really don't think that's a good enough explanation for that, given the second post you made about it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Heal: Yos2

Fate, read our system please. Tierce and I are both town and both big advocates of it. Don't get yourself killed over something technical.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

FoS: Kinetic

This is a joke, right?

He did the same scummy thing Quadz did. That's all this said. I want to take a closer look at both of them.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can we please go with the plan to limit the number of people hurting him? I still think it's a good idea, and with the rage dumps it won't be slow at all. He'll probably be dead before 24 hours are up. I'll rage dump after the next vc.

(shrug) If we can get this going fast enough, ok.

Quadz should continue to hurt him, since he has already done so. I'm also pretty convinced that MattP and LLD are town, so I would be fine with them hurting him. Just so long as he dies fast, I don't care.

Remember, this isn't just about Fate; we need to do whatever we have to in order to deter other people from doing this in the future.

LOL IT GETS BETTER

"this isnt just about fate his alignment is irrevelant

WE NEED TO USE HIM AS AN EXAMPLE ANYONE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES WILL DIE"

just put a crown on him and call him satan

In this game Satan would be confirmed town

Fate, I know you hate the Bullets for Bullets, but I'd like you to read the entire game if you haven't and give me some concise points I can work off of. Scooby was REALLY bad, and while I think you're town you're playing from behind here.

Help me out here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Matt, that might be the first salient point I've seen from you all game. Yeah, that post is incredibly townie.

Quadz is still a thing though. I really don't like how he handled this replacement thing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm on CD for another 4 hours and change. I can heal/hurt someone after that point. Not sure if that'll matter or not but etc.

Also, I can't wait to see how Fate being town somehow makes the one person who wanted to have a rational discussion of facts with him scum, and not the people who fucking wanted to speedlynch his ass, Kanye.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lets get a heal asap lambda. i seen you browsing not 20 minutes ago (coincidentally after your timer was already up)

I've been offline the entire day.

Heal: Tierce

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right, I've seen a lot of hot air from Kanye and not a lot of reasoning. You said that Fate being town makes me scum. Explain this now.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right, I've seen a lot of hot air from Kanye and not a lot of reasoning. You said that Fate being town makes me scum. Explain this now.

nah dont really need to.

Yeah you really fucking do.

Because basically, you're acting like a scumbag trying to push my lynch through with a lot of noise, and not an ounce of content.

So get busy explaining or get busy dying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

How the fuck are Kinetic Kanye Tierce and Albert confirmed town by any means? Infact they're the EXACT SAME as anyone else beyond Zdenek and Quadz in this matter.

I have a real problem with Kinetic trying to "clear" himself with this, when he's clearly not. Especially when it "clears" KKB at the same time, and he's being scumtastic.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lol all you want you scumfuck. You've yet to say a god damn thing except "Lambda is scum because Fate is town".

And you can't back that shit up because you DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CASE.

You said you were going to post reasons why. You never did. Answer the question or die.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I WILL NOT MATT. KANYE IS A FUCKING SCUMBAG TRYING TO STRONGARM MY LYNCH.

I WILL NOT ALLOW IT. HE WILL BE SHOWN TO BE A FUCKING SCUMBAG OF AIR (SEE WHAT I DID THERE?).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lambdy. lamders dee. its cool u dont got to fight it so hard.

Oh please.

Until you give me a fucking case, you're just blowing hot air.

And you're scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

on a scale of 1 to 10 how much do you wish u didnt dump all your rage into voided so that ud sitll have some to throw at me right now?

You want me to prove I have Rage for you? I'll rage you right here right now and show you I have rage.

I'll dumb my entire rage onto you with

fucking pleasure.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and air is all its gonna take to make you dead too doesnt it suck ??

I will watch you die, scumbag. Fucking bring it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, this is kind of funny. I think you need to step back and relax. We'll get to you once Yos is dead. Why don't you vote for him and speed that along. kk, that cool?

Fuck that. Fuck your plan.

I don't trust you a fucking INCH.

NOT.
A.
FUCKING.
INCH.

So I'm doing what I know to be right. I KNOW Kanye is scum. His posting can't be anything else.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no it doesnt count if you get your buddy to do it for you.

Uh huh. Yeah, ok. You're fucking useless to talk to.

Real townies will see this shit.

See that you have said NOTHING as to why I'm scum, and that you're scummy as shit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

actually you look a lot like scum right now hth (its cus you are.)

Whatever. You're scum scrambling to cover up your mistake because you can't provide on what you promised.

I'm done talking to you.

Any townie who reads this should be able to tell that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So basically Kanye is claiming he is going to do Damage to me without sufficient votes or backing.

If he does so, I'll be interested in which townies go to kill him for breaking our system, like they did of Peregrine and Fate before him, and which townies(maybe not so "townie" hold back and decide toilet it pass).

Given that 5 damage is over half my health total, I better be seeing some fucking heals from you guys unless you want to have another dead townie on your hands.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll claim then, since Kanye is a stupid fuck.

I'm ALSO an Ophan. I can watch once every 12 hours, and have been constantly watching Matt for the first while of the game, until I decided that the more quiet people are those I should watch. No results on Matt.

I was in the process of watching VOIDED when he died. Also no results from him.

So let me guess: Kanye saw me do something to Voided and now thinks he has a guilty.

And he's a fucktard. Again.

You wanna test this? Kanye can watch me again. I'll submit a watch on him right now.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You happy Kanye? You glad you made 2 low health Ophans claim?

You fucking dumb piece of shit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like the fucking incompetence of this entire game has been enraging. Killing Fate. Kanye. Matt early game (HE GOT BETTER). Tierce lately.

Like. Seriously

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...what did I do? It's the first time I hear you complaining.

You haven't been doing anything lately. Like, literally nothing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, LOL Kanye's confirmed fucking scum.

Why the FUCK would I lie about visiting Matt if it's clear he's been observing me all fucking game?

I mean, really?

Vote: Kanye

This is the play today. 1v1, Me and Kanye. Choice is fucking CLEAR AND OBVIOUS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The fact that LLD would RANDOMLY choose to use her ability on VM at that moment and be town is FUCKING RIDICULOUS and the fact that she would be angry at KKB for attacking her for it is EVEN MORE RIDICULOUS but

THE WINNER FOR MOST RIDICULOUS AWARD FOES TO KINETIC FOR FOR SOME REASON BEING MORE CONFIDENT ABOUT HIS READS ON MY AND YOS THAN LLD AT THIS POINT

WINNER OF 2012 CONGRATULATIONS

Dude did you not read? I had been following Voided for a while before that too. I started following Voided around..... the 10th of december? Let me check.

Like, I have been pretty diligent with my watching.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

so ~why~ did you show up as visiting him only when he was raged to death ??? hmmmmmmmmmm

Because you're a lying sack of shit?

I dunno. Convenient how you didn't fucking claim anything until I had to come out with info first.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hurt: Yos

Action is unspent as Yosarian was already dead at this time.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Meow.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hurt: Yos

Wow.

Ok, LLD just claimed scum. Nice.

Vote:LLD

hurt:LLD

Heaven will have your head, Demon.

Also, meow!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I just wanna watch the world burn.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fair.

But I'm an Angel Cat. The only emotion I feel is contempt.

I wanna watch Hell Burn.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

believe its doing that on its own just fine tyvm

Yeah but I can help! Angels love helping!

OH OH OH ALSO.

Yos, is it irony if I said I'd see you in hell?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tierce could be scum, but she did rage me earlier today. If scum could do 10+ points to voided yesterday and then have enough rage left to kill me today with only Kinetic's help, then...well, that would suck. It just seems unlikely; if they had that much firepower, why didn't they start killing earlier?

I think the scum get rage like we do. Last night, when Voided died, my guess is that 3 scum dropped their normal 9 points of rage on him, + a few points of something extra (possibly bonus for lynching townies?) to make sure he was dead. Today, everyone got 1 more rage point, so the 3 scum could hit me with 3 more damage from rage. If they had any more then that on hand, LLD wouldn't have needed to hurt me to get me into potential killing range.

I think that's all they have. So I think that everyone who has been shown to use rage in the last 24 hours or so is almost certanly town.

What if I acted aloneeeeeeeeeeeee~?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Should we wait to kill LLD for Albert to return then? And I'm sure we can get Kanye to prove Albert is the one making the rage if he's ready for it.

It doesn't really matter that much. If you kill LLD before Albert comes back, then just make Albert ragedump on, say, Xalxe first thing tomorrow. Just make him do it fast, before rage has a chance to regenerate.

Shouldn't post when you're deaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddddd~~~~~

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Meow Meow Meow Meow

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I just put 5 rage on Yos~~~~

[Lady Lambdadelta]

BRING OUT YOUR DEAD.

BRING OUT YOUR DEAD.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

can someone PLEASE get rid of this freaking cat??????

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have to give Kayne props for a well played game. Very strong performance on his part. If he had just taken control and wheelbarrowed this town the way he wanted like he did with my lynch, he would have won this game.

Beyond that, I think the entire scum team played a really strong game, and I'm surprised about the impact I had even after I was dead. I felt like my actions throughout the game setting up interactions helped more after I was dead than when I was alive.