Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[Tierce]

As for PV

pedit: I actually have a LOT of good townreads right now and if I pushed anyone it would be really rough and counterproductive,

so I'm just going to wait until the lil sheep I'm spying comes back to graze in the fiery pits of hell.

This was in reference to PV's first post, which gave me a scumvibe mainly before of the fluffy non-productive way of it.

I see your point. However, If this is a normal sized mafia game, there are 3 scum. If 2 town and 3 scum decides someone dies, you can guarantee it'll be town that dies. This doesn't have to happen more than a few times to screw town over.

I think that we should stay with 7 for the first lynch. If this doesn't appear to work, we can modify for next lynch.

The killers should be the ones voting.

Votes will be tracked.
Votes without reasons should be subject to the most scrutiny.

This also seems very postured and too dumbed down / stiff, specifically the bolded parts. I don't see a SLIP like you supposedly see

I don't like when he calls me scum out of the blue, but I don't like it any less than LLD's comment, which I'm very curious to genuinely see her response to my post to her.

Except this is yet another player you are letting get on a roll, because you did NOTHING about him once he posted again, only mentioned him when called on it, and THAT to say that

I

thought he was scum.

You know what's more?

It's a lie.

Bam!

Are we going to try and do this calmly, or just blast the shit out of each other?

"Fluffy non-productive way of it", you call it.

Post FOUR. The first post in the game. His next post was waaaay after your Post 44. You know who posted before 44, who you could comfortably say "oh guys I had a scumread on them it was awesome and stuff" for your convenience when you needed to vote a nice growing wagon?
PeregrineV
kanyeknowsbest
Tierce
Kinetic
Zdenek
quadz

And you're telling me you got a 'scumvibe' from

the very first post in the game

.
And did nothing with it.
After that player return to the thread multiple times.
And didn't even mention it when you started saying you wanted to talk with charter and Yos2.
I mean, honestly.

I know the previous games punished bussing to a certain, but are you guys THAT bad at it?


Still waiting for PeregrineV's explanation of what reads of mine he agreed with.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As for PV

pedit: I actually have a LOT of good townreads right now and if I pushed anyone it would be really rough and counterproductive,

so I'm just going to wait until the lil sheep I'm spying comes back to graze in the fiery pits of hell.

This was in reference to PV's first post, which gave me a scumvibe mainly before of the fluffy non-productive way of it.

I see your point. However, If this is a normal sized mafia game, there are 3 scum. If 2 town and 3 scum decides someone dies, you can guarantee it'll be town that dies. This doesn't have to happen more than a few times to screw town over.

I think that we should stay with 7 for the first lynch. If this doesn't appear to work, we can modify for next lynch.

The killers should be the ones voting.

Votes will be tracked.
Votes without reasons should be subject to the most scrutiny.

This also seems very postured and too dumbed down / stiff, specifically the bolded parts. I don't see a SLIP like you supposedly see

I don't like when he calls me scum out of the blue, but I don't like it any less than LLD's comment, which I'm very curious to genuinely see her response to my post to her.

Oh boy I missed this until I saw Tierce quote it.

So let me get this straight. This is the mother of all setup posts to hop onto me in your next post with a vote?

Because that's what it looks like you're doing buddy. Bet you were hoping to get away with it too with that whole "abrasive" bullshit you started. Trying to devolve this into a bunch of useless insult war and pointless argument about how you don't like me or something of the sort.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

You're gonna have to account for the fact that you've now gone from Charter to Tierce to Charter to PV to Tierce to PV to Me in a matter of PAGES with no logical progression to show for it. First sign of you trying to worm your way out of this with bullshit excuses or trying to fight me with the whole "you're abrasive and mean wah wah" shtick, you're dead.

Now go ahead and make my day.

[Mr. Flay]

charter mutters

"ѣʊɠɠɚ ɽ͡ψ..."

and is enveloped briefly in a swath of violet flame; when it clears, he looks a lot more like Xalxe instead.

[Xalxe]

I've been following.

Tierce, explain like I'm five: why should I not be proceeding to beating the snot out of Matt?

[Tierce]

What do you mean by "beating"? Hurting/Raging? Don't. We want people accountable for "lynches" and Hurting willy-nilly will put Town in trouble in the long run. We don't want heroes who Hurt because they are so very very sure they are right, because that will result in bickering and petty fights that will decrease the overall Town health. Healing is limited, since we lose one HP per Heal-on-others (and regain

only one

post-Heal HP total at Rage accumulation; read my posts for details), so we're keeping everyone as topped as possible and then pushing them to zeros when we get majority.

You should be

voting

MattP, though.


You should Heal kdowns as per this:

scooby Heals ABR
ABR Heals scooby
LLD Heals PeregrineV
Xalxe-charter Heals kdowns

Zdenek Heals Yosarian2

and then vote MattP. Scum #2 is keeping a vote tally.


To scooby, ABR and LLD: the bolded in my quote still needs to happen.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've been following.

Tierce, explain like I'm five: why should I not be proceeding to beating the snot out of Matt?

I know I'm not Tierce but I think the answer here is basically because we as a town decided that we were going to kill people in an orderly fashion and not randomly hurt. We had the mechanics discussion on earlier pages, you can quickly peruse through that. The long and short of it is that the majority of the town wants to implement a voting system to determine who we kill and when we kill them, and that everytownie agrees that the town needs a singular unified plan.

So basically, letting your desire to have MattP bite the dust is the direct equivalent to your above suggestion, just more diplomatic (if that's what you were looking for.)

If you're looking for reasons why MattP might be town, I'm not your girl sorry.

P-Edit: Ninjacat has failed

[Xalxe]

Boooooring.

But thanks for the heal reminder, didn't realize charter hadn't done so.

HEAL: kdowns
VOTE: MattP

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

[Xalxe]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

Because (I think) then you won't get the benefit of the accumulation of health from rage? No wait just reread, because then you'll be up one once rage rolls around and unless you're conftown we can't have that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

Because (I think) then you won't get the benefit of the accumulation of health from rage? No wait just reread, because then you'll be up one once rage rolls around and unless you're conftown we can't have that.

You can only ever be at +1 above your maximum health, so I can't accumulate any more health than I already have (which is +1 max).

[Tierce]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

There is literally nothing to lose from Healing him (you'll lose one Health point till your Accumulation, putting you at your original health temporarily, and that's it--it's a loan).

Believe me, I fully understand and sympathize with your stance here, but that is the kind of outlook that will lead to petty "I'm not Healing you!" down the road.

Hurting won't be made much more complicated by an extra Healing now, we have plenty of people to use. But it protects a bit against scum rage dumps.

[MattP]

I'll give all of my reads when I get out of lab

[quadz08]

Hi I'm here.

Will make the posts later hopefully; I had a funeral to attend yesterday and am now back at work today. It's been a long weekend.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

There is literally nothing to lose from Healing him (you'll lose one Health point till your Accumulation, putting you at your original health temporarily, and that's it--it's a loan).

Believe me, I fully understand and sympathize with your stance here, but that is the kind of outlook that will lead to petty "I'm not Healing you!" down the road.

Hurting won't be made much more complicated by an extra Healing now, we have plenty of people to use. But it protects a bit against scum rage dumps.

Yeah, and down the road there will be most certainly more situations in which I will have problems complying with a town request I don't subscribe to.

This is what I was talking about with "whose definition of town" and "accountability".

Likelyhood is that while this heal will have no real severe consequence, future heals might and precedent is important. I'd like to discuss this a little more before I commit.

[Kinetic]

Tierce, I have zero desire to heal PeregrineV. Like, none. And don't give me that town solidarity lecture youse. >=(

Just for the sake of questioning, why should I heal someone I believe to be scum?

There is literally nothing to lose from Healing him (you'll lose one Health point till your Accumulation, putting you at your original health temporarily, and that's it--it's a loan).

Believe me, I fully understand and sympathize with your stance here, but that is the kind of outlook that will lead to petty "I'm not Healing you!" down the road.

Hurting won't be made much more complicated by an extra Healing now, we have plenty of people to use. But it protects a bit against scum rage dumps.

Yeah, and down the road there will be most certainly more situations in which I will have problems complying with a town request I don't subscribe to.

This is what I was talking about with "whose definition of town" and "accountability".

Likelyhood is that while this heal will have no real severe consequence, future heals might and precedent is important. I'd like to discuss this a little more before I commit.

This is actually very simple LLD. Town have unlimited harms, given time, but from every game in WiH, the scum's rage mechanic has been limited in some way. Any scum mechanics are likely limited similarly in this game. Therefore, healing generally helps the town more because it gives scum less control over the decision to kill someone. Anyone. That is why it's town's greatest advantage.

You can argue over who deserves healing, but for now this heal all around plan only protects everyone if everyone subscribes. If someone doesn't, it breaks down and could bring chaos. In the future if there is a rage expenditure we don't want the town to think "Oh, well, I think he's scummy, so I shouldn't heal them." The correct response is "Someone just raged him, he needs to be healed before he is killed so we can question him." At anytime, it is the townie play to keep someone in the game UNTIL the town has decided to remove that person from the game. Part of that is keeping everyone topped off, even if you think they are scummy now.

[MattP]

First off, you've posted null pertaining to the points being brought against you by myself and Yos to my satisfaction.

Oh Ok tell me exactly what you said that wasn't a parroting of what Tierce said. You are pulling shit out of your ass so I'd like you to outline every point you made that wasn't "Matt had an outburst at Tierce and shittily called her scum while he was in a bad mood"

Go ahead

[MattP]

You are intentionally taking any chance to pile on extra shit on me because you want me dead for the sake of it and after I die you'll be like, "whatever Matt looked scummy" either because you're an irritable, abrasive individual or you're scum.

[MattP]

Posts 158 through 161 are tantamount to a scum claim for Matt.

Also, I see no reason to give Matt any BoP Tierce. You've shown an argument about his self proclaimed town meta, and he isn't sticking to it.

Further, you can't get fake rage past the Queen of Rage. That whole comment about your mother was loaded with tons of goodies that scum love to use. Baiting into a spiraling conversation, combined with some absurd form of AtE seeking to gain you some form of sympathy in the manner of "oh he was just in a bad mood, he was being bad town".

All of it stinks.
------------------------------

On a separate but related note, are we just going to let the voting plan go through? Because while I don't want to drag this out I'm annoyed/worried people like Tierce and Yos won't address my concerns about a pseudo voting system.

Post 158 and 161 were even further expanded upon in my case to let me stay alive long enough to push Charter

The second line is nothing

Telling me my personal situation is AtE is seriously something you can absolutely go FUCK YOURSELF with. I don't give a flying fuck what you think, I was having a terrible situation at home that I would not lie about and you can go fuck yourself to belittle me and call it an "absurd form of AtE seeking sympathy". I don't give a fuck if you disregard it but to fucking tell me my life situation is absurd AtE is disgusting. I do not use my personal situation to sickly gain sympathy to win a fucking game of mafia. I've fucking talked about my situation in F62 about how I had to move out of my home over the summer and was cut off from my family and though I don't expect you to have read it nor should I you should have the respect or decency to not refer to my situation that way. No, I do not enjoy you as a person. I think you are an angry, bitter person and I think it's ridiculous that you think that's ok and you cartoonize yourself by calling yourself the "Queen of Rage". I think you are being a lying ass right now.

Tell me what exactly I ignored from your "case" on me.

You are throwing my logs on the fire to fuel the wagon on me. You said I "mysteriously disappeared since being pushed" WHEN I DID NOT DISAPPEAR AND DISAPPEARING IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO IGNORING A CASE ON ONESELF, AND I DIDNT EVEN IGNORE THE CASE ON MYSELF. YOU ARE CAUGHT IN A LIE. YOU ARE SCUM. OK GOOD AND FINE YOU CAN ENJOY MY LYNCH BUT YOU'RE NEXT

[MattP]

YOU GUYS THINK MY PUSH ON TIERCE WAS A SCUMSLIP? LLD JUST OUTRIGHT LIED, I DIDNT EVEN DO THAT

SHE CLAIMED I DISAPPEARED WHEN I DIDNT

I CALLED HER OUT AND INSTEAD OF SAYING IT WAS A MISTAKE SHE DEFENDED HERSELF BY SAYING BY "DISAPPEARED" SHE MEANT "IGNORED HER CASE ON ME" WHICH ARE INCREDIBLY DIFFERENT

HER CASE ON ME WAS NOTHING THAT I COULD EVEN RESPOND TO OR WASNT RESPONDED TO ALREADY

[MattP]

Albert B. Rampage
charter/Xalxe
kdowns
Lady Lambdadelta
PeregrineV
scooby
Yosarian2

All of the scum are in these 7. Kanye, Quadz, Tierce, Kinetic and Zdenek are town. If you don't mislynch them we win.

[Xalxe]

YOU GUYS THINK MY PUSH ON TIERCE WAS A SCUMSLIP? LLD JUST OUTRIGHT LIED, I DIDNT EVEN DO THAT

SHE CLAIMED I DISAPPEARED WHEN I DIDNT

I CALLED HER OUT AND INSTEAD OF SAYING IT WAS A MISTAKE SHE DEFENDED HERSELF BY SAYING BY "DISAPPEARED" SHE MEANT "IGNORED HER CASE ON ME" WHICH ARE INCREDIBLY DIFFERENT

HER CASE ON ME WAS NOTHING THAT I COULD EVEN RESPOND TO OR WASNT RESPONDED TO ALREADY

WHEN I USE CAPS LAWK IT MEANS I'M RIGHT

LOUDER IS BETTER

(pretty pretty please may I hurts it now?)

[Tierce]

YOU ARE CAUGHT IN A LIE.

YOU ARE SCUM. OK GOOD AND FINE YOU CAN ENJOY MY LYNCH BUT YOU'RE NEXT

Oh.

You mean like

you

? The case on you from me that you're handily ignoring in place of throwing a shit-fit at LLD? Who, by the way, is ridiculously obvTown, and who never said you 'slipped'? You are the one throwing "slip" back and forth, both in relation to you and PeregrineV.

Oh okay. Continue ignoring me, I'll be here eating popcorn.

Spoiler: On post 292

While frankly I would love to say no one would use their life situation as AtE, I

have

seen it happen. Sorry, but I am incredibly jaded about that. If you are that busy/disturbed/whatever, no one is forcing you to play. I'm sorry for what you're going through, but when playing Mafia, that does not change your alignment, Matt. No one here is responsible for your situation or should feel any need to cut you slack for it.

KoC has brought up chemo as a reason for lurking. He was scum.
Amrun has brought up family situations from hers and

others in the game

as AtE and trying to rile people up.

This is fucked up. This shouldn't happen--that is my

Justice

side talking.

But honestly? I'm through. I'm callous about this crap, because that doesn't change your alignment. Have you looked at

my

situation in F62? Have you given consideration to it during a game? No, and you shouldn't.
You'll get people's sympathy in GD/F62, but don't expect "respect" for it if you are bringing them up during a game. You are Town or scum, and while your situation may affect your attitude,

it doesn't change your alignment

.

Again, sorry for what you're going through, but

in the game

, no one cares and no one is obligated to, so you should stop acting like this is some major offense to you in particular. Play the game or get out.

PEdit: No you may not.

[Zdenek]

How does claiming simply when you use rage out power roles?

So you've expressed suspicion of me over our disagreement over strategy, and it turns out that you've been ignoring my posts on the matter. Colour me surprised.

When making the decision about claiming rage, we should keep in mind the possibility of power roles like the ophans of last game, which may noit accumulate rage at the same rate as others, or stronger roles that accumulate it faster. If there are these roles in the game, they could be outed quickly if we start mass-claiming rage.

Ophans additionally could be outed because of, for instance, a reluctance to use rage.

The case on Matt, while it had reasonable beginnings, has become somewhat unbelievable. For purely wifom reasons, I think he's probably town, so I guess I don't care if you want to kill him, but I'm looking elsewhere.

I don't understand the town reads on Kinetic at all, but there's more scum in the game.

Vote: PeregrineV

There's a reason . . . .

[Tierce]

The case on Matt, while it had reasonable beginnings, has become somewhat unbelievable.

When, where and how?

You realize he has ignored every point I brought against him, right? Because he's just throwing a CAPSLOCK OMG I AM TOTALLY GENUINE fit at LLD instead of actually addressing the issues that are making him a scumread.

The claim that LLD "lied" is inane and thrown wildly out of proportion, and he's choosing to focus on this instead of actually doing something. Like addressing Yosarian, PeregrineV, or, you know,

my case on him

.

[Kinetic]

How does claiming simply when you use rage out power roles?

So you've expressed suspicion of me over our disagreement over strategy, and it turns out that you've been ignoring my posts on the matter. Colour me surprised.

When making the decision about claiming rage, we should keep in mind the possibility of power roles like the ophans of last game, which may noit accumulate rage at the same rate as others, or stronger roles that accumulate it faster. If there are these roles in the game, they could be outed quickly if we start mass-claiming rage.

Ophans additionally could be outed because of, for instance, a reluctance to use rage.

The case on Matt, while it had reasonable beginnings, has become somewhat unbelievable. For purely wifom reasons, I think he's probably town, so I guess I don't care if you want to kill him, but I'm looking elsewhere.

I don't understand the town reads on Kinetic at all, but there's more scum in the game.

Vote: PeregrineV

There's a reason . . . .

My issue isn't the possibility, but... you seem to KNOW this. And I don't know HOW you could KNOW this. Everything Flay has said has been rather cryptic.

Do we know whether Accumulation happens at the same time for everyone?

You do not.

Add to that: your main "attack" against claiming WHEN rage is used, is:

At least for the first time, this person, if scum, does not know how much rage town would have accumulated, and would be forced to make a decision. Town can then use that information to decide if it's scummy, if we should all claim in order to decide if that person is lying, or if that person should full claim to see if there is another explanation for why they had a different amount of rage than generally expected of them.

The only way I can get these two opposing view points to fit together is thus: You are worried that power roles MIGHT be outed if we claim rage usage, but under your plan Power Roles must CLAIM in order to determine if someone's rage usage is scummy.

Is that correct?