Open 319: Jungle Republic - Day 5: Calamity *GAME OVER*

[Thor665]

Dude - you had a chance to lynch scum but were "supah clever...but so focused on Thor that I was voting CM when I could have lynched DJ...huzzah!" If you're actually town, town should have issues with your play. I'm mafia, and if you're town I have issues with your play

[havingfitz]

Dude - you had a chance to lynch scum but were "supah clever...but so focused on Thor that I was voting CM when I could have lynched DJ...huzzah!" If you're actually town, town should have issues with your play. I'm mafia, and if you're town I have issues with your play

When you put it like that my play seems less than optimal, but hindsight is 20/20 and as long as Wolves don't come away with the win I'll get over it. Towards that end, more votes on Sky please!!!!!

[Thor665]

but hindsight is 20/20

Confirmed scum.
L-1.
Didn't notice because you were tunneled on the guy you weren't even voting...and were asking me to hammer DJ...

[Thor665]

Oh! And your best defense includes "I would have looked scummy doing that"...which would make you more likely to survive till today with Seer claim, and everything.

[havingfitz]

Like I said...I've done what I wanted to do, identify both wolves. Yes...if I had noticed DJ was at L-1 and could have put a vote on him with reason and without implicating myself as seer that would have been the way to go. I can't go back and change that but I can ID the wolves hope for the best. If you don't see anything in the points I have made on DJ and Sky then I do not know what to say except fock.

[Thor665]

Your "points" are mostly your counter claim and a lot of screaming of scumslip...eh, the one (not expecting Sky to claim) I might be buying, the other not at all.
But your play yesterday dramatically weakened your position to a shocking degree with regards to your claim.

Sky's big win/ding is her breadcrumbs...but breadcrumbs that come at a point I feel like they're scum going "oh, snap, maybe I should get some breadcrumbs out in case we need to counterclaim a seer tomorrow" and fits with my expectations of the quality of Sky's play.

Your big wing is the weird frothing fanaticism about the whole DJ/Thor thing yesterday - which I almost buy as scumhunting for second wolf...then you sort of go "derp - worst seer EVER!" and vote CM for very little reason, keep needling me, note repeatedly how you have NO IDEA about what this whole DJ case is about, and then ignore how a CONFIRMED SCUM ends up at L-1 all while repeatedly asking me why I'm not voting him - which considering my reluctance to hammer should have been ALL ABOUT your case on me as a wolf, and yet you're voting CM and being pissy that I'm not being lynched while a confirmed wolf sits there waving at you.

The other two have obligatorially got into a slap fest of "I'mma real town!" "Nooo! I'mma real town!" all while ignoring the obvious that either you or Sky is the lynch and are basically refusing to comment much on it at all. DJ actually remotely looks the better for that, because at least he's calling you obv. scum, which makes sense. But Sage hasn't even bleeped a thought in the general direction of the discussion.

DK also continues to ignore me or to offer his thoughts, which is causing my speen to vent blood because he's the guy I can trust and he's STONEWALLING me and I"M HIS SCUMBUDDY!

Meanwhile - I'm pretty sure you're the only player who has really been talking to me all game, and yesterday I was pretty sure you were misrepping me the whole time, and today you keep acting like I'm an idiot for not agreeing that your play is awesome and smells of bacon and win. And you're still more town than everyone here but me - and I'm scum!

So, in short - I actually pretty much hate you all, and am pleased wolves have been murdering town, and am sad they murdered Fool who was anything but and I bet would have at least admitted I was asking him questions. I'm in a holding pattern for my partner, and am actually just waiting for Monday when hopefully he'll nose back in and I can try to send up some flares and spread around a few toys and puzzles to slow him down enough to communicate with me.

[Shadowmod]

As a friendly reminder:

III.5. For the sake of good habits unvotes are mandatory before revoting. use one of these formats: "unvote (player)" or "UNVOTE: (player)".

DonJosh (1/4) - sageamagoo sageamagoo (0/4) - DonJosh Sky (1/4) - DeityKabuto , DonJosh , havingfitz , DeityKabuto havingfitz (2/4) - Sky , DonJosh Not Voting (2/6): Thor665, DeityKabuto With 6 Players alive it requires 4 Votes to lynch / 3 to nolynch. Deadline will be reached on Monday October 10th 2011, 6:00 p.m. Forum Time [UTC-6].

(expired on 2011-10-10 18:00:00)

till Day 3 Deadline

[sageamagoo]

0_o
...if only, Fitz, if only you had hammered...

I'm sorry about continuing to go against DJ but I have to make one last post against him. I was trying to find this quote yesterday but I've found it now and I can't just leave it. It's the mother of all arguments, made by the person who was NKd last night.

Warning: WALL POST

These were my original thoughts on DJ - none of which he responded to:

Spoiler:

• DonJosh - neutral (leaning scum)

My read on DJ is still neutral, but with a scum lean. Sometimes I think he might be scum, then he'll make a post that somewhat mirrors my own thoughts or reads, and I'll lean town. For that reason, I'm keeping him neutral (leaning scum) in my mind until he does or says something scummy, or starts exhibiting more towny behaviour.

I liked his reads in this post, especially his read on TheFool, Ray and Sky (because I had the same thoughts):

TheFool : Scum
Nothing but fluff and scummy wagon-hopping.

CMPunk: Scum
See above

DK : Town
His reactions are pro-town.

Thor : Town
It may be WIFOM, but I don't think scum would be so outgoing and enthusiastic. He is, however, tunneling Ray.

Ray : Null
You, sir, are rather hard to read

Sky : Null
Some posts are town, some are scum-ish

Everyone else is null.

I don't think much of redundant and obvious statements such as this:

So Ray flipped town... where does this put Thor?

Uhm, yeah, I noticed that Ray flipped town, but thanks for pointing out the obvious for those folks that might have missed the epic lynch post. /thumbs up

(kinda seems you were trying to feign surprise, imo)

and this:

There are scum on this wagon. No doubt about it.

There

has

to have been at least 2 scum on it from your perspective. I don't see the point in pointing out something that is so obvious.

Also, I don't like behaviour:

1) You went the entire day voting TheFool (with good reason).
2) Then briefly hopped to CMPunk (giving no reason whatsoever).
3) Then 19 hours later you suddenly, and without reason, jump on the Ray wagon, AGAIN giving no reason of your own for the vote, you just quoted a huge post of Thor's regarding Ray and voted for him, like that somehow excuses you from giving a reason of your own. Then believing you had taken Ray to L-1, you seemed pretty eager for DK to hammer him, imo.

Should DK hammer or should we wait until he responds to his prod?

OBVIOUSLY someone at L-1 is not hammered until they have had a chance to defend one last time and/or claim. Even if they are AWOL from the game.

Stay with me here folks...

DJ's reads:

Done reading. Quick Reads...

TheFool : Scum
Nothing but fluff and scummy wagon-hopping.

CMPunk: Scum
See above

DK : Town
His reactions are pro-town.

Thor : Town
It may be WIFOM, but I don't think scum would be so outgoing and enthusiastic. He is, however, tunneling Ray.

Ray : Null
You, sir, are rather hard to read

Sky : Null
Some posts are town, some are scum-ish

Everyone else is null.

UNVOTE: DK
VOTE: TheFool

DJ@Thor (talking about Thor's wagon on Ray):

As much as I agree with you now, my vote stays on TheFool.

FoS: RayM
HoS: CMPunk

Notice how he now jumps from one of his two scum reads, right to the other scum read:

I was reading Thor's ISO, and I agree with pretty much all his points. However, looking at the wagon

(Ray's wagon again)

, all my scum reads are on it.

UNVOTE: TheFool
VOTE: CMPunk

Let's take a look at Ray's wagon at the time:

Ray Montano (5/7) -

Thor665

,

The Tick, DeityKabuto, TheFool, FightingShadow, DeityKabuto

,

TheFool, CMPunk

, BBmolla, blindfaeth

His only scum reads were on Ray's wagon, along with one of his two town reads. Sounds like he wants to sheep Thor, but is worried because both his only two scum suspects are on that wagon. Fair enough.

But then a few posts later, and after a bunch more people have jumped on Ray's wagon, he quotes this post of Thor's and changes his vote:

Still, for just a couple seconds, pretend you're the teacher and I'm the student. Teach me why we should whack this guy.

I've said it a few times before and have apparently hit a brick wall with most of the players, but let me try yet another rendition - I'm an optimistic guy;

1. Ray is playing in a way that has no scumhunting - he's keeping reads close to his chest and not putting out any difficulties to prevent him from voting any way he pleases.

This is scummy because it let's him go "always suspected 'Player X' whenever he feels like it and helps him avoid being caught in any sort of contradiction of reads.

2. When approached by a player he believes is town, who is tunneling him, he does nothing to help the player un-tunnel and instead mocks his case and ability to form reads.

This is scummy because if you believe someone is town you don't want them tunneled, and certainly not on you. Also, if you think someone is town you should at least try to get them to talk out their reads and explain your issues with them to educate them - after all, you may be counting on them for your wincon later. Having a player beaten down to the point no one will listen to them is only helpful if that player is not on your side.

3. Refuses to back up statements he made by producing quotes.

This is...well...more annoying than scummy. But if I say something to someone, and they call me on it, I LOVE to produce the evidence to prove I'm right. It ends the debate, makes me feel like a real man and be a stallion in bed with women, and also advances the game onwards. Inability to do this suggests you're, well, just making stuff up and hoping no one will call you on it. Also known as lying. Lying is not pro-town.

4. The only reads Ray has offered have been three scum reads on three lurkers (for the crime of lurking) and one town read on me that he then shifted to a null.

This is scummy because these are wimpy easy reads that scum love (scum on lurkers for lurking) and he called me town while I was attacking him, and then shifted me to null when I kept attacking him, which to my mind suggests I was correct when I said his town read on me was an attempt to buy me off and get me to leave him alone. He shifted it to null right when lots of other players started voting me in, my opinion, a pretty clear setup to allow him to vote me if I became wagon of choice after he'd been calling me town.

Does that help?
Or is water not wet if you ignore the moistness?

UNVOTE: CMPunk
VOTE: Ray Montano

Should DK hammer or should we wait until he responds to his prod?

So eager to hammer and the next day so sincere...

So Ray flipped town... where does this put Thor?
Personally, it doesn't change my town read.

Ray Montano (7/7) - Thor665 , The Tick , DeityKabuto , TheFool , FightingShadow , DeityKabuto , TheFool , CMPunk , BBmolla , blindfaeth , DonJosh , blindfaeth , DeityKabuto

There are scum on this wagon. No doubt about it.
I'd put my money on TheFool and CMPunk

No shit, his only two scum reads were on it, which remember, was the reason he gave for not following Thor, but wtf, he ended up jumping on anyway.

Day 2, and he is back to voting for CMPunk.

I'm being run up for the scumtell of being "wrong" aren't I?

D1, I asked you if Ray flipped town, would you blame yourself, and you replied 'Yes, I would take the blame'.

Way before that I suspected you, and as a scum it's normal for you to admit taking the blame to appear Townie and confident with your read on Ray.

vote: DeityKabuto

Seems scum would go out of their way to pin this on Thor. Yes, he said he would take the blame if Ray flipped town but that does not make Thor scum IMO. It just made him wrong, like 6 other people were including me (Yes it took 7 to lynch, not just Thor)

Being wrong is NOT scum IMO

Pushing what seems to be a policy lynch on someone who was wrong, simply because they were wrong is Scummy.

Thor had no reason to stick his head out and say if I am wrong I take responsibilty, that is pretty big burden for someone to take, and putting themselves way out in the open, which scum/wolves want to avoid.

Thor is town

This post + My reads from yesterday = VOTE: CMPunk

He even states his two top scum reads again in this post:

Also, I'd literally put my money on a CMPunk/TheFool scumteam.
IIRC, there are 2 werewolves and 3 mafia?

and this one too:

Eh. While it is more likely that there are scum on the wagon than off, that is only because the wagon is the bigger group. This doesn't in itself increase the odds of any given person on the wagon of being scum; statistically that's a 50% chance for each person either way.

If you think their reasons for being on the wagon are suspect that's one thing, but approaching the problem mathematically is the wrong way to go.

BADBADBADBADBAD
I'd say CMPunk today, this guy tomorrow.

oh wait...he says it here too:

1. Despite misgivings he's still more town looking than you or CM - sorry, deal with it.
2. Not scum in the last three votes of a Day 1 wagon on town with 5 scum available? Really? Where the heck were the scum then, 2-3 in the first 4 votes and then 2-3 in the three votes off the wagon? Derp-derp-herp, amirite?

Yeah, I get that, but it still seems like a jump from that to "blindfaeth is dramatically scummier than CMPunk because he was next to townier people on the wagon".

Also, I'm not sure how it's so derp-derp-herp to assume that the votes were scattered non-uniformly.

And yeah, the signiture thing is pretty pointless.

This guy goes up a notch on my scum list every post...

zomg, would you believe it?...

I will be V/LA until the 28th due to camp. I will accept replacement at the mod's discretion.

As for my thoughts, I stand by my previous statement: CMPunk today, TheFool tomorrow.

But wait, just 3 posts later he says this:

In my other game, the mod found a temporary replacement for me. Maybe you could do that, Shadow? Just until I get back.

As for faeth, he's been real scummy the last few pages, and since kondi never posted, it's really all we have. Lynching faeth would be fine, too.

Yes folks, for the second time he agrees with Thor and declares blind scummy, despite never having given him a scum read before then. However, he leaves his vote on CM and disappears for a week.

Let's take a look at that blind wagon at the time:

blindfaeth (2/6) -

Thor665

,

TheFool

Look familiar? Are we seeing a pattern yet here guys?

By the time DJ returns and before he catches up, blind is lynched. I voted for him, so did TheFool, Sky, BB and CM. havingfitz did not.

Then he disappears again, and a week later says this:

TheFool was scum? Wow, who would have guessed. /sarcasm

Can we PLEASE lynch CM today? I still don't think Thor is scum.

and this:

I forgot my vote...

VOTE: CMPunk

I've had similar reads with TheFool and CMPunk since the start. I would bet money that CMPunk is Mafia.

Also, how about the seer? Does anyone else think they should claim? If not today, definitely tomorrow.

To sum up:

• DJ has only had two scum reads throughout the entire game - TheFool and CMPunk
  
• He has never built or presented a case for either of them despite voting for both of them throughout the game...
  
• oh wait, that's unless he's sheeping Thor and switching to the Ray wagon; the wagon he said he didn't like because it had his only two scum reads on it...
  
• and supporting the blind wagon that yet again featured his only two scum suspects.
  
• He's only ever had two scum reads despite there being 5 scum in this game.
  
• He is AWOL constantly, and when he is here, he offers nothing except to sheep other peoples scum reads and post useless shit.
  
• He is yet to defend himself despite being at L-1.

(oh yeah, and sorry Shadow, I'll post my vote correctly.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sky)

[sageamagoo]

The above post also helps prove Fitz's claim as seer, because of the argument that either Thor or CMpunk were his wolf buddies. Fitz's ideas were shared by Whisper, so this legitimizes his case trying to find both wolves by lynching CMpunk.

[sageamagoo]

P.S. Sky's breadcrumbs were so made up on the spot. Anyone can take random letters out of any post to "prove" they are seer. My case in point:

Ok, DJ:

You po

s

t

e

d an

e

nti

r

e 8 minutes after the end of night. A little close, don'cha think?
DK was the next person, and that was an hour later.

That was so not a breadcrumb. I made it up. So did Whisper.

[Thor665]

@sage - the double ww intentional misspelling to convey 'werewolf' in both breadcrumbs pretty much wuss slaps that last accusation and makes you look silly for even attempting it. She made them intentionally and they are clearly breadcrumbs - the only question is if they are legit.

[DonJosh]

Btw, just making sure I've got my facts straight... if havingfitz flips wolf (which he will), sageamagoo is his confirmed partner, right?

[Shadowmod]

DonJosh (0/4) - sageamagoo sageamagoo (0/4) - DonJosh Sky (2/4) - DeityKabuto , DonJosh , havingfitz , DeityKabuto , sageamagoo havingfitz (2/4) - Sky , DonJosh Not Voting (2/6): Thor665, DeityKabuto With 6 Players alive it requires 4 Votes to lynch / 3 to nolynch. Deadline will be reached on Monday October 10th 2011, 6:00 p.m. Forum Time [UTC-6].

(expired on 2011-10-10 18:00:00)

till Day 3 Deadline

[sageamagoo]

@sage - the double ww intentional misspelling to convey 'werewolf' in both breadcrumbs pretty much wuss slaps that last accusation and makes you look silly for even attempting it. She made them intentionally and they are clearly breadcrumbs - the only question is if they are legit.

Whoops... I didn't see the double w in the second quote. Okay, they are breadcrumbs. Still not legitimate, though.

@sky... please tell us your result for night three. It might help move the conversation along.

[Thor665]

Btw, just making sure I've got my facts straight... if havingfitz flips wolf (which he will), sageamagoo is his confirmed partner, right?

@sage - the double ww intentional misspelling to convey 'werewolf' in both breadcrumbs pretty much wuss slaps that last accusation and makes you look silly for even attempting it. She made them intentionally and they are clearly breadcrumbs - the only question is if they are legit.

Whoops... I didn't see the double w in the second quote. Okay, they are breadcrumbs. Still not legitimate, though.

@sky... please tell us your result for night three. It might help move the conversation along.

[Thor665]

*Sigh* quote fail.

@DJ - no, if fitz flips wolf it doesn't prove jack about you and sage. If he flips wolf the actual seer will prove quite a bit about you though.

@sage - Sky already did this...

@DK - WRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY!?!?!?

Would the wolves like to claim? I might be down for lynching DK just for lulz/revenge at this stage.

[Sky]

Thor, I'm male.

sage, Night 3 was DK and he's not a wolf.

God what a frustrating ending.

[Thor665]

Sky - you should put a beard on your avatar then, as all true men do.

[Sky]

Nothing is more many than Uranus, god of universe and sky, and I'm pretty sure he has a beard.

[Thor665]

Uranus is castrated - but, sure.

[sageamagoo]

@sky: sorry, I was re-reading and I didn't see.

@Thor: I'm male too, but IDC too much. Also: random-ass off-topicness FTW?

[sageamagoo]

@DJ - no, if fitz flips wolf it doesn't prove jack about you and sage. If he flips wolf the actual seer will prove quite a bit about you though.

And if Fitz flips seer we're all dead. Sigh... this would be alot easier if Fitz just hammered when he could've.

[havingfitz]

Zzzzzzzzz.....DKhas pulled this crap in almost every game
I have been involved with him. Also...Sky and DJ are. Wolves.

[Thor665]

@Mod - 10 hour pre-deadline prod request for DK...also, if you could remind him who his scumbuddy is that would be boss

@fitz ::shrug:: still, he's my mason bud, so...

[DonJosh]

@DJ - no, if fitz flips wolf it doesn't prove jack about you and sage. If he flips wolf the actual seer will prove quite a bit about you though.

He claims he got a guilty on me, and he's been counterclaimed by Sky.

Although I now realize from your guys POV his guilty claim on me could be a scum-plan.