Double-Dip Mafia, Game Over

[[Low Key]]

I think post #38 will turn out to be scum but just a theory and I am leaning town on iam.

[[Low Key]]

Not Random:

Vote Pomegranate

Her entry post is 100% scumtastic.

Not Random:

Vote Small

For other reasons.

[[Low Key]]

@Mod: Please clarify on HIraki's post #25 & 26; where are those votes going??

@Hiraki: Can you please just unvote and re-vote or at least explain where your two votes stand?

@Ranmaru: Her response to Eli's question was povercompensating and so was her "random" votes. THe fact that she is Plum's younger sister unfortunately must hold no weight with me.

[[Low Key]]

Although I must agree with Imagine and

FoS Crazy

as well.

[[Low Key]]

Ok, based on #30 I must do this:

Unvote Small, Vote Crazy

Maybe our other reasons can be addressed later.

[[Low Key]]

Why was the response to Elli overcompensating?

It was a scum hunting probe. Your reaction was not from a pro-town mindset; it was more defensive and appears as an attempt to discourage it rather than allow it to go forward to see what reactions are garnered. This is bad.

And the fact that Plum's my older sister is entirely irrelevant to the game; why even mention it? I find that scummy.

Its more of a bit of trivia and a joke than anything else. I don't see any scum motivation for it at all.

Link Request

Please link to us at least two games where, as town, you have used the stated "random voting" in RVS.

---

I need to hear from:

RC, Kunkstar, Ameliaslay

Also,

FoS Smalls

for

RVS-ing up a thread filled with content

with a "who/why me?" attitude.

[[Low Key]]

In fact,

Unvote Pom, Vote Smalls

[[Low Key]]

Looking at who is inactive at this point, my town read on Iam grows.

[[Low Key]]

Is that all you have to say?

[[Low Key]]

1) Fluff posting everywhere with only RVS votes on the table
1a) Excessive game theory posting

2) Weird wishy-washy, unnatural sounding interaction with Crazy

3) Lots of defending of various players while coming to no ultimate conclusions about anyone else

4) Overall profile of an inexperienced, nervous, overly-self-conscious player
4a) This is in direct contradiction with my "experience" (from the dead QT) of him in my Newbie game where he was a very strong and active scum hunter. I suspect he is nervous scum and doesn't play as scum well.

Unvote Crazy, Vote Ran

[[Low Key]]

We are still in RVS...

I haven't seen anything particularly scummy in my eyes. Once I do, I will give stances, and votes.

I don't like these very much either.

[[Low Key]]

Is it just me or does it seem like Ran is overreacting here?

[[Low Key]]

Sorry just woke up and catching up.

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but I don't want to forget about it:

@Kunkstar: Any particular reason you posted all over the site for days but not here, but then enter here like "O hai and ya a positive on the relevant question of the day, I'm so casual etc."?

[[Low Key]]

Sorry, I am behind. My keyboard at the apartment is kind of screwed up, and I don't want to get a spare because I'm moving soon. I will post from work later.

I just want to note that RC had also been posting all over site but not here as well.

[[Low Key]]

Ok nice catch RC. There is only one problem though:

its 100% fail on every point.

Being the vet I know you are, I suspect you will be able to admit it.

The story begins here with the following two posts:

@RC: You won't see me being 'un-committed' here. Just check my recent games in my Wiki to see if I have done the same or not. If you still have a problem trusting me, I'll out if needed for the sake of others. Anyways, I saw you do pretty well in Mini 1146 so I wouldn't mind playing with you, RC. : P

If it's fine with the Mod, I don't have a problem.

So... what to do...

Note the timestamps on both of these posts; role PM's have already been sent out.

Then this post occurs from Iam:

VOTE: RedCoyote

Pre-emptive OMGUS because I'm sure he'll be bearing a grudge after Khan's game.

VOTE: smallpeoples343

for other reasons.

I immediately note the amazing coincidence and Iam's wording for his Smalls vote. I immediately post the following:

I think

post #38

will turn out to be scum but just a theory and I am leaning town on iam.

I think Smalls had received his scum PM and posted, "oh what to do?" in the signup thread to appear as town even though he would of been chatting it up in his scum QT. Admittedly this is not the strongest argument ever BUT it IS significant enough to note and I think that Iam did as well.

The reason I unvoted Smalls is because I had more concrete evidence infront of me that was stronger than "other reasons"/post #38; A person should vote their strongest scum tells.

Once Smalls actually posted however, the circle was complete. His signup thread post fits the same newb-scum profile exhibited in his entry post and subsequent posts which elevates his scum read much higher than my original suspicion of Pom and thus my re-vote of Smalls.

I think it is truly a good catch of yours RC, just wrong, but you had no way to know that right?

[[Low Key]]

Hmmm, ok. I was having a hard time to decide which vote to move from.

Vote: LK

Confirm Vote Ran

.

Need

an excuse

a little coaching to vote your suspicions huh?

[[Low Key]]

I answered your question to me in post #161.

It appears you have completely misunderstood my point as well.

[[Low Key]]

Ok the question is answered in post #161. You have misunderstood if you can't see the connection I was making.

Now that RC has responded, there is no need to hold back on the information. Its gone as far as it can.

Here is an examle of a weird, unnatural interaction with Crazy:

Haha ok. Fine I'll just look at your recent posts. Just kidding.

This is just one example of weird, kind of buddy-ing, chatting it up fluff posting. I have caught scum doing this before and I have seen you doing it throughout the thread.

[[Low Key]]

I think Smalls had received his scum PM and posted, "oh what to do?" in the signup thread

to appear as town

even

Actually, how would that make him appear town?

Isn't that obvious? He would be pretending that he "has nothing to do" while chatting it up in the scum QT.

[[Low Key]]

Btw, what does RC's post has to do with Small's?

There is no concrete connection per se. Its just a really strange coincidence that Iam voted the only two players that posted in the signup thread after the role PM's had been sent out.

[[Low Key]]

Also your questions demonstrate that you haven't fully read or understood post #161.

[[Low Key]]

@RC: How is the move going, you almost done?

[[Low Key]]

@

LK

:Ah, well I see. You think Iam was faking concern with his vote on RC? Do you think it could have been a coincidence? (Besides his Small vote which would make sense because of the minimal reasoning on smalls?)

I don't think Iam was faking anything but I will let him respond to that; I have my own theory.

LK, can you point out what you believe I have mis-understood? I have read it thoroughly.

Each of your questions revolve around my leaning town read on Iam, inactive players and "other reasons". They are all explained in post #161.

[[Low Key]]

SMALLS IS AT L-1. Please do not hammer without a claim.

[[Low Key]]

I am of the opinion that since we have two votes that we should have a competing wagon with Smalls. Also it is too early to end the day.

Several people have low content levels, only RVS votes or only one vote even.

[[Low Key]]

3 Crazy (imaginality, Ellibereth, smallpeoples343)

-- I think his reaction was over the top on Eli's questrion. I think this has some merit as scum could be defensive about their decision to off Furry. I would like to see Crazy weigh in more and give his game views.

3 Hiraki (Pomegranate, iamausername, smallpeoples343)

-- I think Iam definitely caught cog-dis here but I am not sure if Hiraki has almost defended it well enough. I would like to see this case fleshed out and Hiraki clarify his voting stances. I disagree entirely with his defense of smalls.

2 imaginality (Pomegranate, Hiraki)

-- I see no merit in this wagon whatsoever.

2 Pomegranate (Empking, imaginality)

-- She needs to post more, and come up with non-RVS voting suspects. I think her defense has been good even if her resposnse to Eli was ott and am willing to give her slack.

1 [Low Key] (Ranmaru)

-- I don't like how this vote occurred; again I am seeing disingenuous and manufactured thought processes in-thread that indicate nervous scum in my eyes.

1 Ameliaslay (Ranmaru)

-- I disagree with this vote and entry post analysis. She said she will be giving input soon.

1 Amrun (WeyounsLastClone)

-- I disagree here and am holding Amrun as a town read for town thought processes.

1 Ellibereth (Ameliaslay)

-- This is a meaningless RVS vote

1 iamausername (Hiraki)

-- I completely disagree here 100%.

1 kunkstar7 (WeyounsLastClone)

-- I can understand this but in reading his analysis of the Furry kill, I am leaning town on kunkstar here. He does need to vote and post game reads though.

1 Ranmaru ([Low Key])

-- I think this wagon has merit. I have seen alot of non-town-like thought processes and bad analysis/voting from this slot.

1 WeyounsLastClone (Amrun)

-- I do not understand this read or vote. I think Wey has defended well but he needs to have a second vote and game reads too.

[[Low Key]]

Hmm... no clue why RVS applied to me

Vote: iamausername

Vote: Pom

because Pom have tasty seeds, but make terrible juice.

Err now that i'm re-reading, do you think Small is feigning ignorance to what he posted in the sign up thread, LK?

I think his response there reinforces him as scum; "who/why me" is perfectly in line with "oh I have nothing to do" while chatting it up in the scum QT. Even if that wasn't true it is still a bad post on its own merits.

[[Low Key]]

LK WHY HAVEN'T YOU FOLLOWED UP WITH THIS? WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF ASKING HER FOR LINKS IF YOU DON'T EVEN SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT LATER?

Dear goodness, if you don't mind I read her reponse and have posted a little on it above. See my votecount analysis on her wagon.

[[Low Key]]

1) There is no reason to read the games, she voted "random" in the RVS as town. That nullifies that scum tell. What more do you want??

2) She said she was going to post analysis soon. She obviously has a reason to vote Eli even though I don't and I see no reason to vote her before that unless she doesn't follow through and starts lurking.

3)

Eli, Imagine

leaning town.

Slay, Pom

null.

4) Kunkstar's analysis of the NK wes stellar, pro-town goodness. He doesn't need to be a D1 lynch based on the merits of that UNLESS he fails to follow through with game reads and votes and such like that. He mentioned R/L issues, give the guy a break for the moment??

5) Both your Amelia and Kunkstar votes were whey over the top overcompensating and read as disingenuous grasping at straws.

[[Low Key]]

You can't be serious. I have stated clearly what I have thought in this thread of both his sign-up thread role PM post and his entry post. That's how I feel about it. I see them as straight forward scum tells.

His subsequent posts in this thread have been terribly underwhelming.

My posts on the matter are self-explanatory.

[[Low Key]]

That being said, we need a competing wagon and I would like to see cases for such fleshed out itt and a second person run up.

[[Low Key]]

That was his FIRST post into the game. It isn't particularly bad because he at least participates and votes in the RVS (with reasons too). You say that post is bad but you like Slay's entry post?

Amelia has no scum tells in her entry post. You either did not read or have conveniently forgotten my case on Smalls. He posted a "who/why me" post (which is a scum tell in itself) and that in combination with his RVS votes in a content full thread demonstrate a desire to fit in while avoiding suspicion for any stances. There is plenty of scum motivation in that post. You can't point to any such thing in Amelia's post. You jumped on her for saying she was busy and would catch up soon: read disingenuous grasping at straws.

Why exactly are you leaning town on Elli and Imaginality?

Eli has shown a pro-town mindset in calling out the scum NK. He has also made good votes with pro-town reasoning that I agree with. Imagine's stance on Eli's question is pro-town and his suspect list is one that I agree with.

Why exactly was it pro town goodness?

You don't understand this? I think you should ask Eli. Kunkstar has made a clear case, using his own well thought out logic, for how the Furry NK must have a scum connection. Actually though, I just realized something. In all the flurry of posting I failed to read my notes where I didn't like Kunkstar's entry post; but I liked his last post so much it kind of made up for that. He also posted some reads which was nice and demonstrated a town-wide read by pointing out vote switching. Granted, he does need to post more, come up with scum suspects and actually vote.

Maybe I can give you some merit for the Kunkstar vote but with his latest post I disagree and think he deserves some slack and the ability to further catch up.

[[Low Key]]

I did disagree with your analysis of Kunkstar's entry post though and I read it as reaching.

[[Low Key]]

Is there any chance Smalls could be good enough to be faking this?? I would be willing to policy lynch but I already know THAT isn't happening with today's meta and everything so:

Unvote Smalls, Vote Hiraki

1) Says he didn't know Eli question was a question?
2) Says Iam's question was confusing?
3) Has a scum list I have no idea where he got it (Iam, Imagine, Eli) all 3 are leaning town in my book.

[[Low Key]]

@Ran:

1) He claimed VT
2) He is a guaranteed LYLO risk whether scum or not
3) Even though I don't believe this, he MIGHT actually be scum

Nobody believes like this any more so its useless for me to try.

[[Low Key]]

Basically we as town will pretty much have to just declare him as town and understand that he WILL be in LYLO and will look HELLASCUMMY

OR

just lynch him now and bask in the improved game state; extra bonus if he flips scum and also added bonus of protecting the town PR's.

[[Low Key]]

Sorry I've described this already until I felt like everyone else wanted to puke; I don't like that feeling. I think you can go back and read my posts. Kthx.

[[Low Key]]

But I will say this guy is a ticking time bombs of all sorts of crazy scum tells and distractions. Unfortunately he will never look pro-town and the scum in LYLO will EASILY be able to use him as a) A punching bag, b) A hammer weilder for a scum win.

[[Low Key]]

EBWOP: wielder.

[[Low Key]]

I don't even care anymore if he is scum or town. I think his lynch is a good idea regardless so you can just drop it.

[[Low Key]]

Are you blind? Can you not think for yourself? Have you not seen the huge amount of logical errors and anti-town posts he has made and just continues to spew out?

I don't care anymore. He will always be perma-null, potentially scum. Nothing he says will make sense totally and I'm done talking about him. We will not be policy lynching him and he will be in LYLO and we all need to face that.

Since the above is true, we need to focus on catching scum.

Now quit wasting thread space and let the other players catch up.

[[Low Key]]

I fully support your imagine unvote. Please find another place for it.

[[Low Key]]

Read through a few pages. I always have a difficult time distinguishing between bad town play and bad scum play. Like how he FoS'es somebody because he says "he's breadcrumbing". How is that a pro-town thing to do? And yet he's scum here and so how is that then a pro-scum thing to do? I just get really confused and want to curl up into a ball and go to sleep; for like 20 hours.

[[Low Key]]

I think everyone should start holding Ran accountable for making silly accusations with his silly questions which is him trying to appear pro-town and trying to appear as if he is scum hunting. I'm tired and going to sleep now.

[[Low Key]]

Scumhunt and there won't be LyLo.

I do support this product and service.

[[Low Key]]

Is there any chance Smalls could be good enough to be faking this?? I would be willing to policy lynch but I already know THAT isn't happening with today's meta and everything so:

Faking what? His post? No, I doubt it. I mean, by no means does it necessarily mean he's scum or anything, but I think it's worth testing him over. I wouldn't necessarily call it a policy lynch though. I think if someone else had put that, I wouldn't have necessarily came down on them like I am with smalls.

He pretty much straight-up admitted itt that he is too inexperienced to even know how to perform the scum tells I was accusing him of. He specifically stated that he didn't even know there was a separate game thread.

I find him impossible to read at this point.

I want to cry actually.

[[Low Key]]

Wow. Ran is :goodposting: now. Been following along. Not sure if I'm going back to sleep right now or staying up. One thing is for sure, I will be catching up. I"ve seen a ton of excellent content. Looking forward to wading through it. See you soon.

Love,

LK

[[Low Key]]

As of right now, after reading post #206, I am def confirm vote Hiraki. More on this after I catch up.

[[Low Key]]

Unvote Small, vote iam

y u vote iam

QFT.

[[Low Key]]

Ok done.

First of all I want to say that after catching up from 5 pages back, I am a little embarassed over my behavior. I definitely got off on the wrong foot with Smalls and Ran. I think my best play is when I am more "Spock"-like. I start playing bad when I get more like "Bones"; playing emotionally in the moment. So I want to apologize to everyone and start fresh here now that I've caught up.

If I had to call a 3-man scum team it would be: Hiraki, Crazy, Ran. They all seem to be saying the same things and voting in the same way (even though that might not be immediately apparent). I find it interesting that Ran leaves Hiraki out of his list of queries in post #319 and instead talks about how Amelia is so bad for being on Hiraki's wagon.

If there is a 4th scum member they are hiding pretty well and I haven't made up my mind on who those candidates might be.

But as it is, trying to call the scum team this early is pretty dangerous. I am torn on whether my second vote should be on Crazy or on Ran -- I REALLY disliked Crazy's #309 catchup post and it confirms my early scum read of him but I also dislike Ran's voting and Hiraki defending. Hiraki, Crazy and Ran just all read as 3 peas in a pod to me.

I am going to focus on Hiraki though. I noticed several very strange things about his post #206. There is a person in this room that once said:

"Whether a person believes what they are saying or not is the foundation upon which all scum hunting is built."

I don't think Hiraki believes what he has been saying and I will show this below but in addition to that I think we have all seen that Hiraki has done nothing this game but

OMGUS his own wagon to the exclusion of all else

. I was hoping his post #206 would fix that but I got the opposite reaction:

1) Says he didn't know Eli question was a question?
2) Says Iam's question was confusing?
3) Has a scum list I have no idea where he got it (Iam, Imagine, Eli) all 3 are leaning town in my book.

I'm bored, so I'll answer these in detail.

First off, your first question is extremely inconsequential.

This is RVS, it's got nothing to do with the real game

.

This is such a terrible argument on its own merits BUT I have seen Hiraki scum hunt in RVS before and use it as a scum hunting tool so,

LIE

. Why does Hiraki need to lie about the value of the RVS in his own defense?

To continue, the question, as written asks, "Who's played with Furry before."

Considering I knew no one by the name of Furry, and I'm never interested in the NK of N1, I had no clue what Elliberith was talking about.

There is so much wrong with this post. First of all I want everyone to link below and stare at the green part from our Mod and look closely at the post below it and then repeat like a shampoo bottle until you get this weird like "aha!" feeling: Hiraki Link

I stared at that for probably a minute and I just can't believe Hiraki could say he didn't know who was night killed. Here's what I think happened there:

I think Eli called out the NK and Hiraki thought, "Wow NK speculation looks like an easy 'scum' target" as evidenced by this post:

Hiraki licks his chops

But then he suddenly realizes that he's actually the one being scum hunted and has to double back and say that he had no idea who Furry even was which he tries to explain here:

After snooping around, I finally caught on to what she was doing. That's why there was a delayed response between my first post regarding Elliberith's post, and the second post.

But before I am done with that, why does Hiraki call it N1??

For me, I was sitting around for 4 frustrating days and I definitely saw it as N0. But he calls it N1. Because for him it

WAS

N1 with his scum buddies in the QT.

I hope they had a good time on deciding to kill Furry because I wasn't having fun. I was like Smalls, you know, "what to do?".

After that he really doesn't defend against the scum reads issue but just says "Wrong."

And not you forgetting which of Empking and imaginality was supposed to be a serious vote.

First off, this is shitty grammar. I can't, and still can't, make out what Iamusername wants me to say here, or anything I can possibly say here. The only thing that I can see, is that Iamusername is implying more about my counting error which is a horribly small snippet of the case that's iamusername is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Iam has spoken the King's English here. I can't see why you thought it was confusing. You seem to understand it here but before you said it was confusing. So which is it?

We're 10 pages in. There's nothing that has been produced from the Furry question.

No, I think something HAS been produced. I think he caught scum on page 1 and its you.

and then jump on him if he failed to do anything useful with them at that point.

And here we are. I believe Elliberith has enough information, no?

Where's the jumping. oh right you can't do that.

I just did.

Hiraki just fits the overall profile of caught scum lying and trying to discredit the means by which he was caught. He is obviously overly concerned with his wagon and has done zero scum hunting. His scum list is scumtatsic and he has done nothing to support it.

He needs to hang and today.

[[Low Key]]

Also, I forgot. Check out post #288 where he attempts to coerce a newbie into unvoting him. Shameful that.

[[Low Key]]

Slay just used bad reasoning and justified it with GUT.

Which means there's something wrong. I'm glad you inadvertently agree.

Well it either means there is something newb scummy, or just newbie because it seems Slay is used to seeing scum being activity police, especially with seeing how Small's played in his scum game, it could be possible that was her site meta. Plus it seems Slay has offsite experience:

/in? I don't know if I have three games under my belt though....

Due to Petry stating that he knows Slay has ton of experience, it sounds like they have offsite experience together and has seen him play quite a bit. This is only a theory though.

Do you agree?

You're all over it here.

[[Low Key]]

First part its in red. You are demonstrating the same motivation for your actions; people on the same team would share the same motivations. You are all voting badly and I think because you are all scum but I know its dangerous to wear a tinfoil hat so early. I think we have definitely caught scum with Hiraki but you say nothing. You just query your wagon and attack Amelia for voting Hiraki.

[[Low Key]]

Hiraki's behavior really came under scuntiny for me with his defense of smalls and I mentioned as much. The full cog-dis about Hiraki Page 1 didn't come full circle for me until his defense post #206. That explained everything for me and so I took the appropriate action. If Hiraki had properly defended in #206 like he claimed, I was prepared to unvote him.

You ARE criticizing her for being on his wagon because she is on his wagon and you are criticizing her. I don't see why you are so hung up about it.

A bad scum list is a scum tell.

I had no problems with Pom's post that you linked but imagine makes some good points about her. I just read her as town at this point.

Eli has yet to explain his Iam vote.

What you are doing right now is querying your wagon. You did the same thing with some others earlier. In a sense you are doing the same thing as Hiraki, its just that you are better at it.

You jumped on Amelia for a vote where she clearly said she was returning to explain. Just as I said and again you are hung up on it.

[[Low Key]]

Here's something for you Ran. If you are town I want you to think about this and see what you come up with. Don't you see similarities between what Hiraki is saying and what Crazy is saying? Don't you see them like talking from the same perspective? Like ISO them and see if you get my drift on that.

[[Low Key]]

Smalls you actually made a good point about Hiraki OMGUS-ing his wagon. You helped in the scum hunting process there. Good work.

[[Low Key]]

Actually that's where you made a mistake though. He never voted you or wanted your lynch. It was the opposite. Now Amrun sees that as a scum tell. Amrun has a point.

[[Low Key]]

But that's the secret about tryiong to find scum and pursuing cases; even if they are wrong they stir the pot and generate reactions that can be read. That's why its good to pay attention and pursue scummy things.

[[Low Key]]

Oh really? *checking back*

Sorry Hiraki. Apparently I was wrong about that accusation about you being part of my L-1.

How did you find that out in less than 3 minutes?

[[Low Key]]

Ok I did the same thing but how did that show you that you were wrong??

[[Low Key]]

Ok ya, that's how I checked it myself but I actually ISO'ed the Mod.

[[Low Key]]

@Amrun: Could you please clarify your case on Wey b/c I'm not seeing it?

@Kunkstar:

@Crazy: Could you please explain how Ran demonstrated a lack of cog-dis on Eli's "NK WIFOM" because I didn't understand what brought you to conclude that?

@Imagine: Could you please state your case on Amelia?

@RC: Could you please clarify in detail about your view on Small's claim?

@Wey: Could you please clarify your case on Amrun because I'm not seeing it?

P-EDIT: ISO means look in isolation; what you did to see all of your posts.

[[Low Key]]

@Mod: Can we prod Kunkstar since its been 48 hours?

[[Low Key]]

@Emp: Ya that was on my skim read right after waking up. It did look good on a skim but then when I got to it with notes I had a different take.

When somebody attacks and votes the wrong people while defending the wrong people, they can post a really good looking post but it doesn't hold the same weight, if you get my drift.

Since you are here I figured I would at least try to ask you about your Wey vote but I didn't ask it earlier because I just felt it wouldn't really go anywhere, amirite?

[[Low Key]]

Yes.

[[Low Key]]

Ok I have a query to Amrun about it so we'll get clarification there. It was fun stealing your avi tho.

[[Low Key]]

This is such a terrible argument on its own merits BUT I have seen Hiraki scum hunt in RVS before and use it as a scum hunting tool so, LIE. Why does Hiraki need to lie about the value of the RVS in his own defense?

That is true, that was a bad statement by yours truly. I think I was saying it more towards the use that Elliberith gave it.

Could you please clarify what you mean by this? Because you used this as a defense against my initial reasons to vote you.

There is so much wrong with this post. First of all I want everyone to link below and stare at the green part from our Mod and look closely at the post below it and then repeat like a shampoo bottle until you get this weird like "aha!" feeling:

But now you're building this case on the reasoning that it must be impossible that I check my posts, or it must be impossible that I skimmed the mod post.

That's not scummy, that's just me being lazy.

This is then what you are asking us to believe. Ok.

Could you please explain what you meant by your post that immediately followed Eli's on Page 1? Because it looks to me like it was you recognizing that he just mentioned the NK.

I think Eli called out the NK and Hiraki thought, "Wow NK speculation looks like an easy 'scum' target" as evidenced by this post:

That's why I'm still on her.

Do you have any other reason to call Eliberith town, except when I supposedly flip scum?

Apart from his vote of Iam which he has not explained, I agree with every one of his posts and see them coming from a town mindset. You don't however. I find that very troubling.

For me, I was sitting around for 4 frustrating days and I definitely saw it as N0. But he calls it N1. Because for him it WAS N1 with his scum buddies in the QT.

LOL.

I guess that means everyone that called it N1, rather than N0 is scum then?

This is quite absurd. Just because I didn't call it N0, because to be quite sincere it doesn't look attractive, rather than calling it N1, I'm scum?

What? You're saying you did it

intentionally

??

So now its that you were too lazy to read green text less than two inches above your post, claim you have no idea who furry is AND you

intentionally

called the NK N1 instead of N0?? I can't buy all of that at once. I don't have good credit either so a loan doesn't look very likely here...

Tell me this. If I was scum, why wouldn't I straight up answer the question? Why would I say that I had no clue what he was?

My theory is that it took you a second to realize you were being scum hunted. In the scum QT the convo went down about the NK. There are concrete reasons that were mentioned. I believe you were party to those and instinctually wanted to distance yourself from them. This is why you come up with the bizarre explanation for your delay in posts.

Smalls you actually made a good point about Hiraki OMGUS-ing his wagon. You helped in the scum hunting process there. Good work.

I didn't OMGUS him, I didn't even vote him.

Your ISO is filled with talking about the people on your wagon. You've done almost completely nothing else.

Ok awaiting Hiraki's further explanation and things just keep getting stranger and stranger...

[[Low Key]]

Does anbody here understand what a person could mean when they say N0 doesn't look attractive??

[[Low Key]]

Could you please clarify what you mean by this? Because you used this as a defense against my initial reasons to vote you.

I mean that while RVS is useful, Eliberith was not using it in the best pro-town way.

Your quote was: "

This is the RVS, it has nothing to do with the real game

". How come your above answer doesn't jive as a defense of that statement?

Could you please explain what you meant by your post that immediately followed Eli's on Page 1? Because it looks to me like it was you recognizing that he just mentioned the NK.

I didn't like Eliberith's first post. It was a question. Questions as the first post are almost always bad.

Ok, so you reacted like you did because he asked a question?? So your reaction of "

That's your first post, DAMNIT

" is because he asked a question and that's it??

Is anyone familiar with the logic "questions in the first post are always bad" in the RVS?

Apart from his vote of Iam which he has not explained, I agree with every one of his posts and see them coming from a town mindset. You don't however. I find that very troubling.

You do realize that the basis for my vote on Eliberith, and why she has a scumread from is exclusively this point we're talking about.

Yes I most certainly do. Guess who I believe? It ain't the guy that says he didn't know who was night killed I can tell you that.

What? You're saying you did it intentionally??

No, I'm just furthering the point that no one says N0 anyway.

Nobody says N0? I say it all the time. N0 peek. Everybody says it. You didn't and I don't buy "nobody says N0". Crazy said it in his catchup post. So you are wrong there huh?

My theory is that it took you a second to realize you were being scum hunted. In the scum QT the convo went down about the NK. There are concrete reasons that were mentioned. I believe you were party to those and instinctually wanted to distance yourself from them. This is why you come up with the bizarre explanation for your delay in posts.

Do you do conspiracy theories?

I do cog-dis when a person's explanations are bizarre and don't jive with their behavior.

Your ISO is filled with talking about the people on your wagon. You've done almost completely nothing else.

LOL.

Don't make me post my ISO of you because it will look ridiculous on how over and over you are doing no scum hunting and talking about everyone on your wagon.

Does anbody here understand what a person could mean when they say N0 doesn't look attractive??

According to Dictionary.com, attractive means providing pleasure or delight, especially in appearance or manner.

N0 looks ugly.

Ok well at least you're on record then.

[[Low Key]]

Yes I most certainly do. Guess who I believe? It ain't the guy that says he didn't know who was night killed I can tell you that.

I believe you're missing the point.

Here let me help.

I agree with every one of his posts and see them coming from a town mindset. You don't however. I find that very troubling.

oh.

You're going to have to do better than that; like make a case against Eli. I mean you're voting him. I don't see you saying his question was anti-town as a pro-town mindset. I think you've engaged in heavy cog-dis over it. Your full defense is on record. I am now going to review it again.

Your ISO is not devoid of scum hunting. You were doing some scum hunting earlier but you just became obsessed with your wagon and have done nothing else since it formed.

[[Low Key]]

We basically have 5 statements:

I made a mistake in saying the RVS was irrelevant but tried to dodge by saying it was about Eli and then recanted that and said again I made a mistake.

I was lazy and didn't know who was NK'ed.

Nobody says N0 -- no I was wrong so change that to I don't say it and I think N0 looks ugly.

N0 NK speculation is scummy and Eli is scum because of it.

I reacted strongly to Eli's post because he asked a question in RVS as his first post.

I find this whole collection very bizarre. I will think about it all more but its all on record now for everyone to see. I definitely don't have the flowery townie goodness feeling from it all.

My theory is Eli hit a nerve with Hiraki and he just never recovered.

[[Low Key]]

There is also the issue about Iam's cog-dis and such but I will let him cover that and also the post where he basically says "Smalls, unvote me or else".

[[Low Key]]

Well that makes sense. My reasons on the matter have been clouded by the fact that I have agreed with each of her votes except for yours. Imagine has a similar sort of case on Pom. Well hopefully Kunkstar will return or we will get a replacement soon.

[[Low Key]]

Amrun and Empking will of course have to respond to your well thought out post.

[[Low Key]]

Low Key, you did good work in #327, but trying to explain to scum why they are scum just clogs up the thread. Leave it be.

I will be making a much more substantial post within the next few hours, just want to put an end to the raging quote war before it gets even more out of hand.

I think I did a better job here but I guess that's just my opinion.

Hope Amrun's father get's better soon.

[[Low Key]]

@Iam: What's your read on Crazy?

[[Low Key]]

@Kunkstar: Glad to see you are back.

On Hiraki, Iam's cog-dis case against him put necessary pressure on him and allowed me to see further cog-dis in his defense which was helpful in getting my focus on Hiraki. Scum are not genuine in their scum reads (unless they are bussing and then they are 100% accurate) and can be caught by this cog-dis tell. That being said, it was Iam's case and I wouldn't mind seeing it fleshed out maybe to see it better; Hiraki's defense was terrible on it though which goes a long way for me.

I hope you don't mind me asking but, are you planning on catching up on this game, fleshing out your reads and participating more consistently?

[[Low Key]]

Pffft. Apparently you have been away awhile and are oversimplifying things.

1) Cog-dis on scum reads is a valid scum tell
2) It is a case that Iam brought
3) My case revolves partially around cog-dis in his DEFENSE of that case
3a) Iam sees this better than I do and I would like to hear more
4) My case is also about Hiraki's cog-dis concerning the NK & Eli's scum hunting question too
4a) Please read my case when you have time
5) If I was a vig I would shoot Hiraki right now so please don't try and tell me that I am being disingenuous here
6) I understand you have been away and haven't caught up yet. I recommend you please do so

I hope you don't mind me asking but, are you planning on catching up on this game, fleshing out your reads and participating more consistently?

[[Low Key]]

If I could help out here I would be suggesting game reads from both of you; I do see both of you as town but it appears that Wey has not done much other than his two votes and I guess its time for me to recognize that.

@Wey: Could you please give us your top 3-4 scum suspects?

[[Low Key]]

To clarify, the major point is how he supposedly didn't know the NK; I mean why did he feel obligated to go through all that?

His responses about the other points do seem rather odd and contrived as well.

[[Low Key]]

Also, I mean the RVS thing. Every time something comes up, he made a mistake, he tried his best but it wasn't good enough, he was too lazy; I mean everything is an excuse. With all the excuses he's piled up and done so in such a suspicious manner -- doesn't smell town to me at all.

[[Low Key]]

1) I didn't know Eli's question was a question
2) Iam's question was confusing
3) I made a counting error
4) I was too lazy to know who was NK'ed
5) I made a mistake about the RVS
6) Nobody uses N0, whoops OK I don't and it looks ugly anyway

How do I give all that a town pass? How does anybody??

[[Low Key]]

On another point, I don't get the Hiraki case at the moment. LK's case brings up silly points like the "N0 or N1" thing. LK is my strongest town read, though, due to his thing with Smalls, so I'm almost positive his intentions here aren't malicious.

Sorry, I don't mean to be crewl but I consider this blatant strawmanning and buddying.

@IAAU - I believe your case against Hiraki was based entirely off of your mistake when you thought he said "3/3" when he really said "2/3." Did you realize this? If so, then why are you still voting him?

This is an excellent question.

[[Low Key]]

Alright. Iam, did you believe that he was faking suspicion on Imag? Is this the premise of your suspicion?

Somewhat. I think he's faking all of his suspicions, and imaginality is one of those, so yeah.

He claims to have looked at the smallwagon, seen 2 out of 3 of his early scumreads on it, then 'doubted himself', checked the wagon again and counted 3 out of 3 of his early scumreads on it, even though we was actually right the first time.

I do not believe it is plausible that he would make this mistake. I don't see how, if he was genuinely suspicious of imaginality, he could completely imagine his presence on that wagon

when he was specifically looking to see if he'd made a mistake in his count

. I think it is much more likely that the mistake he made was forgetting who his three early scumreads were. Specifically, one of the people he voted for at the start of the game was Empking, who was on the smallwagon. Add me and Ellibereth, and that gives you the three he counted.

And, obviously, forgetting who his early scum reads were is a lot more likely to happen if he is faking those reads, which would make him scum.

I would also like to point out that I encountered similar cog-dis with each of the points that I covered as well. Based on the two cases, there is a similar pattern of cog-dis throughout his play.

[[Low Key]]

And how do you miss the green bolded NK less than two inches above your own post?? He stated he didn't even know who the NK even was.

[[Low Key]]

I have reason to believe 2/3 of his scumreads were not based on the small wagon. [originally]

This is an interesting catch. I'd like to see how you got this. Your requested quote coming up.

[[Low Key]]

First off, your first question is extremely inconsequential.

This is RVS, it's got nothing to do with the real game

.

This is such a terrible argument on its own merits BUT I have seen Hiraki scum hunt in RVS before and use it as a scum hunting tool so,

LIE

. Why does Hiraki need to lie about the value of the RVS in his own defense?

This is such a terrible argument on its own merits BUT I have seen Hiraki scum hunt in RVS before and use it as a scum hunting tool so, LIE. Why does Hiraki need to lie about the value of the RVS in his own defense?

That is true, that was a bad statement by yours truly. I think I was saying it more towards the use that Elliberith gave it.

Could you please clarify what you mean by this? Because you used this as a defense against my initial reasons to vote you.

I mean that while RVS is useful, Eliberith was not using it in the best pro-town way.

Your quote was: "This is the RVS, it has nothing to do with the real game". How come your above answer doesn't jive as a defense of that statement?

Because, like I said before, I'm not infallible and I make mistakes.

Sequential ISO #43

[[Low Key]]

Hiraki YouTube Video

[[Low Key]]

I'm sorry I couldn't understand it. It seemed to me that Hiraki stated that he had 3 scum suspects and that those suspects then appeared on the smalls wagon (whoop dee doo, Smalls was megascummy). I don't think Hiraki was saying that they were his suspects BECAUSE they were on the wagon but that they were pre-existing suspects. Amrun does point out though that Hiraki's certainty about small was unnatural due to small's obv-scum status; I do tend to agree.

[[Low Key]]

Ya him declaring the RVS as totally meaningless is definitely ott, especially for him.

[[Low Key]]

I don't think Hiraki was saying that they were his suspects BECAUSE they were on the wagon but that they were pre-existing suspects. Amrun does point out though that Hiraki's certainty about small was unnatural due to small's obv-scum status; I do tend to agree.

Explain.

1) You suspected the 3 before Smalls became the wagon of the day. I disagree with your suspect list there 100% btw.

2) The theory is you knew Smalls was town more than a town-aligned player should; i.e. scum defending a townie for town cred.

2a) This MAY even be the reason you messed up your scum list because you thought "Aha! The Smalls wagon, easy town cred! My scum suspects are on it!" but you got confused and couldn't get it straight to the point you had to change your views 3 times.

[[Low Key]]

^^^ veiled threat.

[[Low Key]]

This is quite absurd. Just because I didn't call it N0, because to be quite sincere it doesn't look attractive, rather than calling it N1, I'm scum?

I just found it odd that he tried to say that he thinks typing N0 is unattractive. That really does sound like reaching for an excuse to me.

[[Low Key]]

Ok, caught up.

@Eli: Love your town list (except Ran). Your scum list is too heavy for me. I especially don't get Iam and imagine.

On Amrun I have a solid case of her fencesitting Hiraki hard; that being said, I still think she's town. As far as the fencesitting goes, I don't know why she is doing it but her overall play makes up for that, specifically her game reads as I see them and votes.

@RC: Wow you noticed I was coaching Smalls? Well you are 100% correct and I did it deliberately with head held high. I think you are living in a bygone era with your desire to PL him. I have come out into the light of the modern meta and I must say the air is really nice out here, there are flowers and sunshine and butterflies and I haven't keeled over and died; I admit it was hard to do. Nice Hiraki vote though.

Hiraki is at L-1

I am just about ready to end the day. I need to check my overall reads and see what else I would like done before night falls.

[[Low Key]]

If I was dayvig I would end the day with both my votes dead and have a smile on my face. I think Ran's latest attack on Amelia is so ott and nitpicky. Kunkstar is right on with Ran here; This is confusing me because every once in awhile Kunk is brillaint but other than that I have a bad gut on him. Here is my read on Ran:

He is desperately trying to create a town profile for himself by any means that he can. His arguments have been very poor, his conclusions and votes have been very poor. By the evidence, this is clearly scum desperately flailing in an attempt to appear town. If he had come to solid conclusions, votes and arguments I would have no choice but to call him town.

@Ran: Why didn't you bus Hiraki? He is at L-1 now don't you think it would be a good time?

[[Low Key]]

@Imagine: Could you please state your case on Amelia?

Ok, I'm not ready to end the day until we have reads and full input from:

Amelia, Pom, Imagine, Wey

[[Low Key]]

Sorry I was just speaking from the heart.

[[Low Key]]

In my gut I wanted to end the day but my brain told me there were some loose ends which is why I said I was going to check.

[[Low Key]]

Despite how skeptical I am about LK's motivations, I have to admit he has been putting himself out there quite a bit in a way that you haven't.

Ranmaru was really the one who put it into perspective though.

The bolded I cannot explain or understand; can you please help me with that?

[[Low Key]]

In my gut I wanted to end the day but my brain told me there were some loose ends which is why I said I was going to check.

You mean your fake townie mindset? Why haven't you ever mentioned you wanted their input BEFORE saying that? Shouldn't that

ALWAYS

be important to you, and not something to be put in the back of your head? I mean earlier you were policing activity, and you dropped that.

No I mean that I have disagreed with just about 100% of everything you have said and done. The major problem with that is you have said and done ALOT; it shouldn't be that way. Like how nitpicky you are, like right now. You look so ott trying to appear like you are scum hunting or something.

[[Low Key]]

That question doesn't even make sense. Here is a suggestion: When you have a really neato question for somebody, don't type it right way, instead do the following:

1) Try to answer the question yourself from the previous posts of the user
2) Try to determine the town motivation for what you are inquiring about and try to determine the scum motivation as well. Weigh them.
3) If with the above actions you think you have a strong scum tell, ask the question as accurately as you can

You obviously aren't doing the above AT ALL. If you you were, you wouldn't ask so many nitpicky, off-base and inaccurate questions.

I find your playstyle quite lazy and disingenuous.

@Amrun: Could you please give me a detailed and up-to-date full read on Ranmaru for me with reference to my overall case on him?

[[Low Key]]

@RC: I suspected you meant that. What exactly please did that put in perspective for you?

[[Low Key]]

@Ran: Please follow the advice in #459 because if you did instead of firing off rapid gut-level, keyboard-play-mind-in-neutral questions, you would see that I said I was going to check on loose ends. Its called,

mental thought processes

. But you don't care about all that; you only care about your image.

[[Low Key]]

In the Empking tradition: Major cog-dis, you don't see it?

[[Low Key]]

My ISO's: 25,33,49,50,70,71,81,83,84,87,88,89,90,92

Am I keeping up your tradition well?

[[Low Key]]

I'm sorry, I know you must get that alot.

That being said, those ISO's are valid.

[[Low Key]]

Eli holds the hammer!

[[Low Key]]

Please wiat to hamer until we get a chance to hear from those players I mentioned.

[[Low Key]]

Or you can ask Ran he's fencesitting Hiraki majorly hard.

[[Low Key]]

No you have been just biding your time. There is a difference.

[[Low Key]]

Hiraki please claim, you have been asked by a hammer wielder -- I think you're stalling actually.

[[Low Key]]

Why not?
And I am now.

[[Low Key]]

I'm not a hammer wielder.

[[Low Key]]

You are posturing so hard on this wagon btw.

[[Low Key]]

So that's how you answer?? Deflection?? You are so scum here.

I mostly agree but there is one read which is really bizarre because I actually agree with it. I won't be talking about that now though.

[[Low Key]]

EBWOP: disagree with his reads.

[[Low Key]]

No you have been just biding your time. There is a difference.

I'm not. You sure are buddying Elli hard here though.

So LK, what do you think of Hiraki's reads of his wagon?

You deflect so hard here and try to sound so casual. I think its forced.

[[Low Key]]

Hiraki will flip scum and you have been posturing the wagon and hammer slot as if you like suspected him and have been scum hunting him. It is totally false posturing.

[[Low Key]]

HIRAKI CLAIM NOW DANGIT NOW YOU ARE STALLING! IF YOU DONT CLAIM IN YOUR NEXT POST I GIVE ELI PERMISSION TO HAMMER.

[[Low Key]]

THat's twice you have cast a populist vote. Boy you are so active and pro-town, I don't know why I've suspected you. :rolleyes:

[[Low Key]]

No, it was poulist for two reasons:

1) It was requested by another player (scum excuse)
2) It is an "easy" vote -- easy to make and no pressure of actually bringing the player to flip; (scum posturing)

Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.

If Hiraki doesn't come back soon I call for Eli to drop the hammer. Town doesn't stall like this AT ALL.

[[Low Key]]

I love how Hiraki has turned off the ability to view his posts...

[[Low Key]]

I checked his profile and it ws disabled.

[[Low Key]]

Ok sorry that was hikari or w/e

[[Low Key]]

I'm not holding it against Eli if he drops the hammer. This is ridiculous.

[[Low Key]]

I don't care Hiraki is stalling. Town for sure claims when requested; scum delay. If Eli drops the hammer in this case it is warranted.

[[Low Key]]

@

Emp

: K.

Unvote Unvote

Vote: Kunkstar

Vote: Wey

@

LK

: I don't suspect him.

Explain in detail how Wey is more scummy than Kunkstar. I accuse you of manufacturing this case entirely and I don't think you can support it at all. I think your scum reads are totally made up, your votes are insincere and your activity is scum posturing.

[[Low Key]]

* headesk *

Sorry Ran, I just woke up. Why the heck aren't you voting me?? I thought you were. Sorry. I will re-analyze...

Ok change that to:

Please explain how Wey is more scummy than myself

and the rest of the post stands.[/b]

Post #540 is the same except replace Kunkstar's name with the bolded (my name).

[[Low Key]]

Why.
I don't suppose anyone is willing to switch to iam based on nothing right? Ok, claim in your next post or I hammer. BLOOOD etc.

FTFY.

[[Low Key]]

@Eli: I can understand that it can be kind of hard to come to a scum read on someone that you originally had as town but how does he just get a total pass on refusing to claim??

How does somebody at L-1 get to go, "Hahaah I'll claim if somebody ELSE asks me! "??

Hiraki Reads

Pomegranate, iamausername, smallpeoples343, [Low Key], Amrun, Ameliaslay, RedCoyote, Eli all say he's scum.

Crazy

, Empking, Imagine,

Kunkstar

,

Ranmaru

, Wey all say he's town.

Funny how almost all of my scum reads are not on the Hiraki wagon. I suspect that Imagine or Wey can support a Hiraki lynch here. The problem is we haven't heard from them lately.

[[Low Key]]

Huh? I have a null leaning scum read on you. I have seen you play exactly like this when you were scum, so I am not sure if you do the same regardless of alignment. You are doing much more than Wey or Kunk. Why didn't you ask about Kunk?

Well I'm not going to self-meta but I will say that in general, the best way to read people is by their voting and scum lists.

You flat our declared me scum along with Empking.

I just get the feeling your motivations are more trying to appear popular than actually scum hunt.

[[Low Key]]

I 100% support an Eli hammer right now, this moment, without any delay at all.

[[Low Key]]

Well, unfortunately Hiraki, when I compare the logic that others have used to accuse you vs. your play and defense, each one of your detractors looks better than you do. I believe you will be flipping scum here. What took you so long to claim, it just doesn't make sense.

[[Low Key]]

Eli, I will be forthright here. I have the same gut twinge from Hiraki's last two posts that you do, but Hiraki is not a beginner. Why NOW does he post all twingy? I see this as scum survival AtE.

[[Low Key]]

Maybe I don't want to claim, hoping that one of you idiots will realize this lynch is the epitome of townfail(LOL HE SAID TOWNfail. HE KNOW THAT THIS IS TOWN ON WAGON)

Also note how LK obv. hasn't seen Pom.

Ya she has posted the bare minimum and went on VLA. That is unacceptable and will have to be dealt with at some point, giving her the chance to properly catch up. Crazy is far, far worse than she is though.

[[Low Key]]

Hiraki I stand by your hammer as if I did it myself. There is not a thing you have done with your play this game that would cause me to think I have done anything wrong if you were to flip town; you will flip scum though.

The scum do not lynch, the town does.

Why have you tried with EVERY SINGLE PERSON that has voted you to use these weird accusations/AtE twists to get them to stop voting you??

[[Low Key]]

You know, I'm thinking this is more like scum knowing he's about to go out and trying to thow up as much WIFOM as he can.

Hiraki I can quote from every player on your wagon how one by one you question them and try to coerce/convince them how bad their vote is. You did it without exception on every single player. With Smalls it was "get off my wagon or else", with me its "get off my wagon or the scum will be after you"; each person has their own version of this.

[[Low Key]]

Ok no fencing anymore then.
I think you're town.
But I don't think you're going to be derailed, confirmed your alignment will help shit, this day's gone on too long...and I just want some flips overall.
Yeah.

What?? Dang this post is bad. If he's town you just don't vote or lynch period. Heck we can get a wagon on Crazy or anyone else that is scum. Why not make a case on scum instead??

[[Low Key]]

Gosh I het post #561 with a serious passion.

[[Low Key]]

Flip back to my original reads then.

Ok, what is your point here?

[[Low Key]]

Day's gone on too long and I think it's too much trouble to get a derail.
I would hammer thinking he is town...I'm just a selfish bastard and don't want to due to role effects.

This just isn't true ESPECIALLY with double dip. Wagons can be created and lynched in a day even. Your role issues have nothing to do with your statement that Hiraki is town in your eyes.

[[Low Key]]

With

15

alive, it takes

8

to lynch. Deadline is July 15 at 4:00 PM PDT.

PLENTY of time.

[[Low Key]]

Hammering town is just wrong unless it is a policy lynch and Hiraki is NOT a policy lynch. I mean WTH, who is scum Eli??

[[Low Key]]

We have time to run up a second wagon which will be more informative for town. Throw up your strongest scum read with a case; I mean why do I have to tell you to do this??

[[Low Key]]

You are correct that there is the will to hammer from more than yourself. No, I do not want to open up another potential VT claim. I have your scum list in my notes, so ya I know who you think scum is. The only possible scum from your list I'd be willing to lynch if Hiraki was governed would be Crazy.

Why exactly did you move HIraki to the scum category anyway?

[[Low Key]]

@Eli: Ya, we definitely have different reads this game. You are seeing the game differently than I am.

I have no desire to lynch Crazy before Hiraki (but I think they would make great scum partners) but then I don't think Hiraki is town at all and therefore it is not my burden to make cases on lesser scum suspects.

I am understanding your overall view though, except:

Why did you list Hiraki in your scum category if he was only null?

[[Low Key]]

Scum: Am, Crazy, Hira, iam, imag, Pom, Red reads my notes.

[[Low Key]]

"leaving" was the word I had down for that list which I interpreted for "lynchable".

[[Low Key]]

Leaving: Am, Crazy, Hira, iam imag, Pom, Red

So explain leaving??

[[Low Key]]

So leaving what??

[[Low Key]]

Oh aha...

No wonder your scum list was heavy...

[[Low Key]]

So ya, you and I would agree on Crazy but I guess for different reasons.

[[Low Key]]

For me Crazy-Hiraki read strongly as scum buddies.