Newbie 1082: No Country for Old Mafia - Game Over!

[Misder]

/confirm

[Misder]

vote: [L]

cause I<3Kira

[Misder]

Oh jeez, dont know how to do anything on this site yet...

Vote: [L]

for "legitimacy" sake, and getting used to how to do stuff.

[Misder]

Kira outsmarted you- therefore Kira is amazing. And I didn't really like any of your successors. tbh, light was too crazy.

[Misder]

Unvote [L]

[Misder]

1. Few. 0 on this forum though, so the way I play may be a bit different. Oh, and epicmafia, but that's a completely different game imo.
2. It's all about deception and hunting. And it feels good to nail down mafia or completely messing with town.

@crazy- I got a response from [L] and I'm satisfied. Really, no reason to vote for someone that I feel is less scummy than the rest, even if it is RVS.

Also, this game pace is really slow from what I'm used to... zzzzz

[Misder]

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

[Misder]

US EDT (UTC/GMT -4 hours) Its 11:27 PM right now. My times will vary a lot I think, mostly at my nighttime I suppose.

[Misder]

@cjdrum
1) not voting yet, waiting for more activity right now
2) as of right now, zMuffinMan. I feel he is most protown right now alongside with [L], but since I already had some sort of relationship with [L] in the RVS stage, zMuffinMan would be the ideal choice.

And

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

So far, I only got one game, and that was from Prosaurus, and I dont know if that was accidental or not.

[Misder]

@[L] It's the same way you are viewing me. I see you as more protown than others (no where do I mention that I'm positive that you are innocent like you state) the same way you view me as more scummy than others. Simple as that. In my book of notes, you and muffin are the only ones that don't have some sort of slight scum read, esp. since you guys questioned the same things I have in my notes, therefore less scummy. I'll agree that it is very early though, which is why I'm holding back all of my thoughts until later when I actually get more evidence on people.

[Misder]

@Wing, anyone you think is suspicious now that we have pretty much past RVS?

@zMuffinMan Why do you find it demeaning that Romanus is trying to be the IC?

@Romanus, what is your role as the IC and how are you going to accomplish this?

@McGriddle, how did you choose cjdrum as your random vote? Also, why do you like townside better than scumside?

[Misder]

@[L] Admittedly, he only has two posts and his second one I got a null read also. However, I like his first post only because of his attack on Romanus. These are my notes for him:
31

Hi

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. Pretty much none. A friend told me about this game and said it'd be the kind of thing I'd like. He linked me here and I've read a few games he's played in, if that counts for experience at all...
2. Well, it looks like I'd find it enjoyable.

Vote: Romanus

I don't see why you needed to tell us that your vote wasn't serious.

A legit vote cause I was thinking the same thing/or should have been even more, slight town read

@Romanus

You're giving us zero credit if you really think we need to be spoon-fed that badly. Being new doesn't mean we're stupid.

On the topic of making things clear, could you explain the irony in your reasoning for voting me? Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

Agree with Muffin on second paragraph, read is null on this post, but makes more sense if it was town; if Romanus maf, Muffin town imo
38

Australian EST (+10 GMT, +1 for DST), it's 2:22pm now.

I get on when I can, time varies a lot because my current sleeping pattern. I'll probably be posting somewhere between midday and midnight my time most days.

null read

Again, I'm saying that I didn't get a scummy read on him. Everyone else I get something I don't really like.

[Misder]

Sorry, three posts. I mislabeled in my notes, as you can see by my missing number on the second quote x.x' Second quote is post 34. Also, just wondering what your last post is about L.

[Misder]

@crazy, its the way she plays and how she says things that I like. Sure, maybe first 2 posts aren't ever going to be definite, but that's why I keep note of things that happen after. And with more posts from her, I still like her play except for maybe a small part, but I will still stand that she has pretty much played town so far.
edit before posting: so it seems like pro is on the opposite side of me on [L] which is fine. I disagree with the analysis on the second to last post- I actually view this as town because it pretty much is true. However, I do agree with analysis on the last post, as it did seem a bit scummy to me also, but I view her posts as overall townplay right now.

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

[Misder]

@zMuffinMan
1) In this type of setup, yes. Well, this is my first time playing this setup so uhh... read 2 for more I guess.
2) In other forums where games are much bigger and fast-pased (like 30 ppl and days are 48 hours), it usually started out with just a random lynch, however, these random lynches first start out from voting to lynch inactives, but of course this will lead to discussion, and then, that's where moving the game forward is very easy. I'll also add that I usually don't even participate in the voting to lynch the inactives. In this type of setup, RVS is kind of the same function as what I'm used to; it'll eventually lead to discussion. However, even without RVS, discussion about anything will eventually lead to something (kind of like RQS I guess, but I'm talking about anything here). Of course, deadline is a great incentive to vote, so even if at the end, no one is "scummy", then there will still be an attempted lynch that will move the game forward.
Hope my answers aren't too confusing. I feel like I just blabbled.

[Misder]

Holy crap I missed a lot. So I finished through page 4 of my analysis, but only skimmed through pages 5 and to this post. So I'm just gonna give you my thoughts on whats been happening since I last read.

@Romanus debate- 1) his scumhunting is more of jumping on posts that are scummy; lynch on muffin was OMGUS, lynch on me was cause I didn't scumhunt, lynch on cjdrum because of one post- theres still no real analysis- however, I do agree with the lynch on cjdrum, and his way of using his vote to his adv is not scummy 2) pressure is good imo, and him using his voting power is fine- I don't really see it as pushing for a definite speedlynch 3) Posts I find scummy- 32

@zMuff - I told you it wasn't serious because this is a newbie game, and most especially early on, I feel it is my job as IC to make sure I'm being very clear about what is going on. But jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so this one is serious:

Unvote

Vote: zMuffinMan

1) I've been playing off and on for 5 years or so. Started with meat world playing and then found this site. I haven't been around here in a while, but I plan on being a fixture for a while now.
2) Oddly enough, one of the reasons I play is because I teach writing in college and MS contains some of the best essays on the internet. But also, I just love games, from tabletop minis to board, card, Wow. Yeah, I'll play just about any game.

Oh gosh- really need to read one of his games, I don’t agree with him here, OMGUS voting too, looks like taking adv on a newbie game- scum read
70

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone. Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

mmmm, 1st line kind of contradicts with his OMGUS vote, not really easing in new players- the play to win is key imo; and zMuff’s vote was serious imo also, so I don’t really like the way he’s viewing things- slightly scummy
72

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

Defensive but answers all questions posed so good (null read); his vote on me is pretty bad, McGriddle and crazy both have posted nothing basically (scum read), and I had at least provided analysis on L, although technically my “posts” don’t really have scumhunting in it, so I’ll give him that much
92

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

Speed lynches are BAD for town. With 7 town 2 mafia alive, a speed lynch will probably cause it to be 5 town 2 mafia.

@Wing
Care to say why you're voting, apart from trying to pressure him?

It's partially a pressure vote, but mostly a vote on scum. He was under pressure before I voted him, and he responded poorly. Especially just now.

Pressure is good?

Yes

Someone puts you to L-2 and all you say is "yes?" He hasn't been scumhunting, he's been pushing for unfounded lynches. It's still early, but I'm just about ready to see him lynched. Nothing personal.

I'm not concerned about numbers here. I'm concerned about scumhunting. Odds are we will lynch a townie today. Happens in most games. That really isn't important. What's important is the info you get.

I'm not pushing for lynches, I'm pushing for wagons, serious ones. The simple fact that anyone brought up the possibility of a speed lynch, and the fact that it is tied up in a neat scum bow almost guarantees there will be no speed lynch.

Pressure makes people react. Pressure makes people take a stand in their posts. This is the best way to hunt scum in my opinion.

1st point gives me chills- he hasn’t done any scumhunting, and I don’t like the info part either cause it’s very easy to manipulate words, technically we never actually get info (scum read)- 2nd point I don’t get about the “neat scum bow” part or whatever- 3rd point I agree (slight town read)
117

I pointed out the post that I think is scummy. If you don't find it scummy, fine. But I refuse to think for people.

"Please, please, give me reasons that I can parrot." I don't think so. Think for yourself. No townie should want to be spoonfed.

And there is no way I am claiming right now. Someone is trying to take control of this game, and it ain't me.

This is killing me though. Can you explain how you think in a newbie game, not convincing town that someone is scum is going to help you win? imo, part of the game is to convince people that scum is scum


@Prosaurus Do you feel like you’re playing differently than you did in your previous game? If so, why?


@analysis on me- seems like crazy already did the work- I’ll still post my thoughts on them- 78

Analysis on: Misder

Town reads in green

Scum reads in red

Neutral in black

Unvote [L]

Fair enough. The thing here is, if he keeps his vote, people could say he has no valid reason to vote. Watch what happens if he unvotes.

1. Few. 0 on this forum though, so the way I play may be a bit different. Oh, and epicmafia, but that's a completely different game imo.
2. It's all about deception and hunting. And it feels good to nail down mafia or completely messing with town.

@crazy- I got a response from [L] and I'm satisfied. Really, no reason to vote for someone that I feel is less scummy than the rest, even if it is RVS.

Also, this game pace is really slow from what I'm used to... zzzzz

Agreed. This is pretty slow.

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

Getting to know people,

Or finding the biggest threat?

US EDT (UTC/GMT -4 hours) Its 11:27 PM right now. My times will vary a lot I think, mostly at my nighttime I suppose.

Null

@cjdrum
1) not voting yet, waiting for more activity right now
2) as of right now, zMuffinMan. I feel he is most protown right now alongside with [L], but since I already had some sort of relationship with [L] in the RVS stage, zMuffinMan would be the ideal choice.

And

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

So far, I only got one game, and that was from Prosaurus, and I dont know if that was accidental or not.

Odd choice of scumbuddy. Choosing who you think is most town?

@[L] It's the same way you are viewing me. I see you as more protown than others (no where do I mention that I'm positive that you are innocent like you state) the same way you view me as more scummy than others. Simple as that. In my book of notes, you and muffin are the only ones that don't have some sort of slight scum read, esp. since you guys questioned the same things I have in my notes, therefore less scummy. I'll agree that it is very early though, which is why I'm holding back all of my thoughts until later when I actually get more evidence on people.

If you and [L] were scum, this would put us off it. We'd say only one of you was scum.

@Wing, anyone you think is suspicious now that we have pretty much past RVS?

@zMuffinMan Why do you find it demeaning that Romanus is trying to be the IC?

@Romanus, what is your role as the IC and how are you going to accomplish this?

@McGriddle, how did you choose cjdrum as your random vote? Also, why do you like townside better than scumside?

Random fluff to start discussion

@[L] Admittedly, he only has two posts and his second one I got a null read also. However, I like his first post only because of his attack on Romanus. These are my notes for him:
31

Hi

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. Pretty much none. A friend told me about this game and said it'd be the kind of thing I'd like. He linked me here and I've read a few games he's played in, if that counts for experience at all...
2. Well, it looks like I'd find it enjoyable.

Vote: Romanus

I don't see why you needed to tell us that your vote wasn't serious.

A legit vote cause I was thinking the same thing/or should have been even more, slight town read

@Romanus

You're giving us zero credit if you really think we need to be spoon-fed that badly. Being new doesn't mean we're stupid.

On the topic of making things clear, could you explain the irony in your reasoning for voting me? Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

Agree with Muffin on second paragraph, read is null on this post, but makes more sense if it was town; if Romanus maf, Muffin town imo
38

Australian EST (+10 GMT, +1 for DST), it's 2:22pm now.

I get on when I can, time varies a lot because my current sleeping pattern. I'll probably be posting somewhere between midday and midnight my time most days.

null read

Again, I'm saying that I didn't get a scummy read on him. Everyone else I get something I don't really like.

Like attacking the IC, do you?

Sorry, three posts. I mislabeled in my notes, as you can see by my missing number on the second quote x.x' Second quote is post 34. Also, just wondering what your last post is about L.

Null

@crazy, its the way she plays and how she says things that I like. Sure, maybe first 2 posts aren't ever going to be definite, but that's why I keep note of things that happen after. And with more posts from her, I still like her play except for maybe a small part, but I will still stand that she has pretty much played town so far.
edit before posting: so it seems like pro is on the opposite side of me on [L] which is fine. I disagree with the analysis on the second to last post- I actually view this as town because it pretty much is true. However, I do agree with analysis on the last post, as it did seem a bit scummy to me also, but I view her posts as overall townplay right now.

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

Making his own analysis on [L]. Good.

Still trying to convince us [L] is town. Scumbuddies,

Or being honest?

@zMuffinMan
1) In this type of setup, yes. Well, this is my first time playing this setup so uhh... read 2 for more I guess.
2) In other forums where games are much bigger and fast-pased (like 30 ppl and days are 48 hours), it usually started out with just a random lynch, however, these random lynches first start out from voting to lynch inactives, but of course this will lead to discussion, and then, that's where moving the game forward is very easy. I'll also add that I usually don't even participate in the voting to lynch the inactives. In this type of setup, RVS is kind of the same function as what I'm used to; it'll eventually lead to discussion. However, even without RVS, discussion about anything will eventually lead to something (kind of like RQS I guess, but I'm talking about anything here). Of course, deadline is a great incentive to vote, so even if at the end, no one is "scummy", then there will still be an attempted lynch that will move the game forward.
Hope my answers aren't too confusing. I feel like I just blabbled.

True, inactives aren't much of a threat to scum, are they?

But you are talking about in other games, so that doesn't really count.

Conclusion:

More scum than town.

Points on me trying to paint L as town is true, I can kinda see where he’s getting that we could be scumbuddies, but I did clearly state that I only had couple of posts to work with and within those posts, L was most town, although actually, makes sense cause he thought that L was scum; point on random fluff is wrong, they were genuine questions that I needed answers to in order to get a better understanding of some posts; point on me attacking IC and labeling as scum is pretty weird imo, IC are just regular ppl, and esp. the way that this IC plays his role doesn’t make me feel that he’s definitely town; last point I don’t really get where he’s getting at, but umm… other than that, feels like town analysis, albeit a bit bad


@cjdrum vote- oh gosh. So in my notes, I have that cjdrum is pretty innocent in the beginning, but after he got back on again, it’s getting very scummy- notes on him
17

vote: Prosaurus

For (a)Having a card as an avatar, and (b)Doing a little thing I like to call "Trying to start the damn day already".

null

40

Vote: Cjdrum

no apparent reason. You may call me McG, that's my nickname.

unvote

Vote: McG

for a vote with

absolutely

no reason. Also for advertsing name shortenings in vote posts.

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. I played quite a few games IRL, moved to the xkcd forums' Mafia (played quite a bit there), and this is now my second/third game here at mafiascum.
2. I enjoy playing Mafia because... I don't actually know. When I'm Town, I can do analysis on people and stuff. If I'm scum, I can pretend to do analyses

null I think, seems a bit scummy for OMGUSing (kinda), could be town play though because of the “no reason” aspect

43

Questions for people:

@All - Can you give us all a fresh new reason for your vote?

@[L] - How often do you get lynched D1 as scum?
@Prosaurus - If you're so pro, why vote for somebody with over 9000?
@Wingdamage9001 - What's your favourite ProTown role?
@crazypianist1116 - What is your favourite thing to claim while under pressure as scum?
@McGriddle - What would you prefer to be: ProTown or Anti?
@zMuffinMan - If you ran a UPick and somebody submitted "The Muffin Man", would they be ProTown or Anti?
@Romanus - All

roads

lead to Romanus. Is this why you voted for the man who famously lives on a Lane?
@Misder - If you were scum, who would you like your scumbuddies to be (from this playerlist)?

lol, his posts are so null- looks like town play, but could be easily faked as scum play- less serious questions on Prosaurus, Romanus, zMuffinMan

49

"Fresh new reason" was meant to be another random reason for that person. Should've made that clearer, huh.

And, re Fluffy: I... Um... Well, this is my first EVAR rqs, and I was just thinking of things on the spot. I couldn't think of better questions at the time, and I felt I needed to question everyone, because a scum slip could even come through from a ridiculous answer, right?
Like, when somebody says "Well, every other time I've been scum..." is pretty scummy.

And about the question ranked "Fluff around the edges" - well, if we end up killing Misder (and they are scum), we can mostly clear [L] now - or, at least, be a bit less suspicious. Or more, if Misder is the winey kind of person.

seems just newbish to me, slightly townish

51

Or, at least, be a bit less suspicious.

mmmm, strongheaded? His reasoning I think is a bit flawed, esp. since her question is so blatantly obvious that any mafia member would know what he is up to imo, null

93

Wait, I thought we were pressuring Misder?
Um, so, do I vote now, or let somebody else do that :/

I'll go with it.

Unvote: McGriddle
Vote: Misder

And don't hammer 'til we get some stuff from him!

wait what. Where did you come from. Really looks like he’s been lurking- and agrees with pressuring me, but without a clue of why? So confused. Getting a scum read off of this

95

Because...?

null

100

I must say that was kind of weird-looking. I mean, you convince me to vote Misder, then... Jump off so you're not blamed?

I don't like that. I don't have much experience with that sort of thing, but it seems... off.

Unvote
Vote: Romanus

lol what? Romanus convinced you to vote for me? With what? Saying that I’m not scumhunting, when like I see only 2 ppl actually scumhunting in posts? That is just… slightly scummy there- however, I do agree that the jumping off a bandwagon could be seen as scummy, I’m still putting that part as null though

101

EBWOP: That was directed at Romanus, not to Prosaurus

null

103

Can you explain why that post is incriminating, please?

mmmm, more likely null, but can be seen on the scum side because not admitting the obv reason why his previous post was scummy

110

Lost. Why is the IC being difficult? Is difficulty all of a sudden a good playstyle? :/

Lost.

I like the amount of things he has to say :/ /sarcasm- slightly scummy, though could be just me being critical

121

Most Suspicious: Romanus. For the difficulty in general, but mostly the "Yes, I can. No, I won't." (post 104)

That... I don't even know.

sigh, cjdrum’s main reason to vote for Romanus isn’t the reason why he voted for Romanus- expected that it was because of the change of heart in bandwagon- that post 104 just basically only hurts cjdrum, and I think that’s why that’s the only post pointed out- going with slightly scummy here

128

Opinion - I don't like shit stirrers. Maybe if there was some real reasoning behind the stirring of shit, I'd be happy.

But... I don't wanna be lynched. That's my honest opinion.

Not because I have some power role, but because I want to learn past my first Day. Thanks all.


Oh, have I been asked any questions that I've missed? I'm pretty sure you all haven't, but I'm open to questions asked of me, if you point them out, please thankyou.

no way. You just said you didn’t have a pr. What. Are. You. Doing. If. You. Are. Town. And the questioning thing is just stupid, I do that as scum all the time- scum read

138

Well, nobody wants to get lynched. It's like saying "Oh, that person voted for someone. Scum vote for people."
Or even "That person was talking. Scum talk. That person must be scum."

I've been trying to keep up with the IC, and his reasons seemed good. And then he's been all... Mm.
So I've been lost - I've already been programmed to trust ICs, and everything threw me off and I've gone haywire. It's kind of hard to keep up with... What Romanus is being.

Why do you have to lie. You’ve played one game here, and that game the IC was mafia. And you want to trust an IC. What? Where was that programmed to trust IC part in that game. Scum.

@crazy about my thoughts on Pro- overall town read, barely getting anything on the scum radar- only thing is that his analysis are off from mine

I might have missed something important in this post- so tell me

edit before posting: I was just about to vote for cjdrum, but Wing just put him at L-1. I'm ready to hammer, but I want cjdrum to claim before I do. Also, I don't want anyone else to hammer until I post my thoughts on everyone else.

[Misder]

Just putting it out there, if cjdrum isn't mafia, mafia is crazy+romanus. That's guts right there, but I like my intuition.

Vote: Romanus

I'll let Pro handle the hammer if he so chooses.

[Misder]

lol. so im just going to post this up, cause I don't really feel like organizing it into something neat. It would be nice if people read this though. I'll actually do something with this day 2.
[L]
18

Vote: WingDamage

, cos his wings had to have gotten damaged from violent activity.

21

I don't like bad people. Why do you like the evil one?

slightly town

28

@WingDamage: hehe, I see that now that I'm on a larger screen. I misread your name as "WingDamaged" on my iPod. So whose wings will you be damaging tonight? >__>

@Crazy:
1. I've been playing real life mafia for about 10 years with a solid group of friends, with intermittent change-ups. I've played a couple games here on mafiascum, but I was seriously intimidated.
2. I enjoy playing mafia because I love reading people and using my intuition. The latter oftentimes is not accepted among the males... but I am usually pretty accurate. Playing online affords me the chance to read over discussions many times, to get a better feel for people. I'm a horrible liar. I always get caught as mafia. As such, I much prefer to play as an innocent....usually not even as a power role.

~tldr: I like reading people.

30

I just set up my wiki!

[http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=L]

so innocent, getting a town read

48

@cjdrum: hehehe, Usually on day 1 or day 2... I have a bad record. Once I made it to the end as Mafia by not saying anything and looking distracted the entire game... Everyone didn't expect that xD

I'd say my best strength is being a prosecutor.

Speaking of which, why are some of your questions to these players pointed, while others are fluffy (for lack of a better word)?

Questions for people:

@All - Can you give us all a fresh new reason for your vote?

You ask this after playing voting tag with McG, which still appears a part of all the random voting. Asking others for valid reasons for voting when your own lacks legitimacy is...well... Unfair. And the interchange between you and McG reads as though you voted in retaliation to his vote.

@[L] - How often do you get lynched D1 as scum?

Valid question.

@Prosaurus - If you're so pro, why vote for somebody with over 9000?

Fluffy. It was a random vote.

@Wingdamage9001 - What's your favourite ProTown role?

Valid.

@crazypianist1116 - What is your favourite thing to claim while under pressure as scum?

Valid.

@McGriddle - What would you prefer to be: ProTown or Anti?

Valid.

@zMuffinMan - If you ran a UPick and somebody submitted "The Muffin Man", would they be ProTown or Anti?

Valid, but not really yielding info of value.

@Romanus - All

roads

lead to Romanus. Is this why you voted for the man who famously lives on a Lane?

Fluffy. He specifically stated his reason for his vote.

@Misder - If you were scum, who would you like your scumbuddies to be (from this playerlist)?

Fluffy, on the edge. I can't see what useful information can be gathered from this question.

Your "valid" questions ask things that will reveal important evidence for later in the game. But the fluffy questions are very noncommittal and lack substance... as if you were just filling in a question so as to not leave anyone out, or because you did not feel the need to investigate someone you already know about. Just my thoughts. But it is still early in the game, so there isn't much to ask anyhow, and you've done more work than others.

Are the fluffy questions you asked to be considered relevant?

@Misder: On two occasions, you have stated your surety of my innocence. I don't trust you; just being upfront. It seems as though you are trying to be my buddy, hoping that I will extend the courtesy of dropping suspicion of you. :/
Why exactly have you pegged me as an innocent?

@Prosaurus: I am in the Eastern time zone (GMT -5). My activity will be sporadic and not limited to certain times of the day. But I will at least post everyday. Could you expound the game mechanics that make Mafia "fun" for you?

@cjdrum: Regarding "fresh new reason"...

Unvote: WingDamage

This vote was random.

Vote: Misder

Because I am following a hunch; I do not like how he can decide so early in the game that I am innocent.

@McGriddle: Could you share more about how this "winning" occurs?

@MuffinMan: After reading your friend's games, what is one thing you learned? What appeals to you to make this game interesting?

@Romanus: What game mechanics in Mafia appeal to your personality? What are the "itty bitty things" that spurred your vote? Please expand.

@WingDamage: Expound on what is "fun" about mafia by sharing your favorite game mechanic.

@All: Banzaii!! Feed meh

cool, saw the same thing I did, meaning more town play; little concerned on how she actually views mafia

50

"clearing" anyone this early in the game is not possible.

god, stop being obvtown plz, or tricking me so much lol; so different from your last newbie game

54

@Misder: After reading your post, and evaluating MuffinMan's post - I can't get a read on him at all. Like, nada. What are you reading differently from me? What makes you think he is innocent?

alright, now reevaluating L, this seems a bit scummy, prob taking adv of my liking of her

139

Whoa whoa...please stop the train! Don't lynch anyone yet, I need to read through these pages. It was on page 2 a day ago!

null.

148

@Prosaurus:

So why have you pinned them as scummy? Redirecting attention, or being honest?

I have to ask questions to get information out of people. Am I supposed to be super friendly to my future murderers? Like "Oh! Hi! How are you doing today? /big smile Really? You don't say!" I ask to learn information, and keep them talking so they will slip up.

Before I can discuss what the important information gained from the questions I asked, understand this:

People like things. People especially like things that come easily to them. People tend to consider things they like as "fun". By finding out what a person calls "fun", I can likely deduce what comes easily to them.

Your "valid" questions ask things that will reveal important evidence for later in the game. But the fluffy questions are very noncommittal and lack substance... as if you were just filling in a question so as to not leave anyone out, or because you did not feel the need to investigate someone you already know about. Just my thoughts. But it is still early in the game, so there isn't much to ask anyhow, and you've done more work than others.

Are the fluffy questions you asked to be considered relevant?

What important information can be gleaned from the question to me? Or to pretty much anyone? I would think they are easy enough questions to make up a town-sounding answer for.

I consider this information very important as the game progresses, since I play by analyzing diction and logic. The question comes across innocently enough and people are more likely to be honest. I take every answer given to those questions with a grain of salt; erring on the side of caution is always best.

What exactly is the hunch that you're following?

If you're asking about what my hunch was, you did not read my words above the hunch statement.

@Misder: On two occasions, you have stated your surety of my innocence. I don't trust you; just being upfront. It seems as though you are trying to be my buddy, hoping that I will extend the courtesy of dropping suspicion of you. :/
Why exactly have you pegged me as an innocent?

@Prosaurus: I am in the Eastern time zone (GMT -5). My activity will be sporadic and not limited to certain times of the day. But I will at least post everyday. Could you expound the game mechanics that make Mafia "fun" for you?

@cjdrum: Regarding "fresh new reason"...

Unvote: WingDamage

This vote was random.

Vote: Misder

Because I am following a hunch; I do not like how he can decide so early in the game that I am innocent.

To say it again: I do not like how friendly he is being. The reason I suspect Misder is because in my experience, those who try to buddy up to others, ESPECIALLY so early, are scummy.

The interpretation that mafia are the only ones who can't get any reads on people is untrue this early in the game. There will be many people who fly under the radar - both townies and scum. If it is later in the game, however, and they don't get any reads, then that is telling. Those people are more than likely to be scum.

@Romanus Don't OMGUS, that pretty much got me killed me on my last game

Coaching a bit here? Romanus is the IC here, I think he/she(?) understands basic gameplay. Why do you direct him/her(?)?

Regarding your comment toward Prosaurus, let me rephrase it the way my mind interpreted it.

"Coaching the boss? Why question or direct the boss?"

When I first read Romanus' post, I was put off by it as well because it (1) did not offer explanation, just said what not to do, (2) and he proceeded to do exactly what he said not to do because of emotional reasons. I personally did not even worry about it, but when you're saying "Why question him?" you're agitating the newb pot.

WingDamage - why are you selectively reading posts and questioning as such? You missed my explanation for my hunch, and then questioned my reasoning for the hunch; and then you misread the MuffinMan/Romanus exchange and posted this quote, as if MuffinMan was the first who wrote it. Your explanation is valid, but misplaced. Your post sounds as if you are trying to build cases on misread information. If everyone reads thoroughly, these types of cases won't hold water.

@MuffinMan: Please stop referring to your inexperience. It isn't a crutch. This goes for all of the first-gamers. Scum try to hide behind this excuse all the time.


@Prosaurus:

I don't like bad people. Why do you like the evil one?

Don't see what you mean here.

Kira vs L; evil vs good. I was responding to the "I like Kira" comment. It was unrelated to the game.

@Misder: After reading your post, and evaluating MuffinMan's post - I can't get a read on him at all. Like, nada. What are you reading differently from me? What makes you think he is innocent?

As people in my last game said, Mafia tend to be the ones who can't get reads (Real or false).

What you say is true, but not that early in the game. We were just out of the RVS stage. How can someone get a read during RVS, especially when my posts were explanations of what I like in Mafia and unrelated game matters? Now that the ball is rolling, we will be able to make solid deductions on innocence and guilt. As long as people participate...

...

Regarding @Romanus: I don't see any content from him.

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

Granted, he is aware of the concept of pressuring scum - but he has not put pressure on

anyone

. He's in a defensive position right now. Scummy read.

@cjdrum:

His flip flopping votes, trying to please the crowd, and constant reminders that he's a newb player in a newbie game are all scum tells. The latter is a newb tell as well as scum tell. Scummy read.

FoS:[L] and Misder

But I'm no voting till I have better reads, and I don't want L-1 this early.

Why not? And also, ask me questions anytime. I'm eager to prove my innocence.

More importantly, @Everyone: Answer the questions from my earlier wall 'o text!!

Done.

Unvote, Vote Romanus

Pressure is good?

Suspicious. You're not even sure of why you're voting.

@Wing
Care to say why you're voting, apart from trying to pressure him?

It's partially a pressure vote, but mostly a vote on scum. He was under pressure before I voted him, and he responded poorly. Especially just now.

Pressure is good?

Yes

Someone puts you to L-2 and all you say is "yes?" He hasn't been scumhunting, he's been pushing for unfounded lynches. It's still early, but I'm just about ready to see him lynched. Nothing personal.

I agree he hasn't been hunting. But I just started to see his words in another light, as though he were an IC answering the question. But he's not hunting just the same. A normal townie IC would have said "Yes" or whatever and proceeded to scumhunt. @WingDamage: Why the need to announce that you were applying pressure? It loses its effect when you say what it is....

I'm not concerned about numbers here. I'm concerned about scumhunting. Odds are we will lynch a townie today. Happens in most games. That really isn't important. What's important is the info you get.

I'm not pushing for lynches, I'm pushing for wagons, serious ones. The simple fact that anyone brought up the possibility of a speed lynch, and the fact that it is tied up in a neat scum bow almost guarantees there will be no speed lynch.

Pressure makes people react. Pressure makes people take a stand in their posts. This is the best way to hunt scum in my opinion.

But you haven't actually done any yet? Scum read.

Brain overloaded, I'll be back in an hour. I'm on page 5 atm.

Unvote

Holy crap, half the things that she talks about is so old lol. I’m not getting a scum read on this, but some of the things she said is weird to say the least. Look back at this later

149

Vote: Misder

I am seriously uncomfortable unvoting him because my intuition is bugging the hell out of me.

slightly scummy- previous post you have that both Romanus and cjdrum are scummy, and yet you vote me, with no new analysis on me either… hmmm

152

Romanus' ISO:

Romanus does a lot of explaining of game theories. He made some wishy-washy votes. He explained those as mistakes. Not sure how to take that....on one hand it seems scummy but the vibe I get from him is that he's an over-explainer. What I really don't like is his lack of investigation.

I was and continue to hunt scum. I have my methods, and I like them.

cjdrum is our lynch for today. Opinions?

- What are your methods? Read and let others do the investigating?
- Where in this game have you hunted?

agreed. Town read.

[Misder]

cjdrum
17

vote: Prosaurus

For (a)Having a card as an avatar, and (b)Doing a little thing I like to call "Trying to start the damn day already".

null

40

Vote: Cjdrum

no apparent reason. You may call me McG, that's my nickname.

unvote

Vote: McG

for a vote with

absolutely

no reason. Also for advertsing name shortenings in vote posts.

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. I played quite a few games IRL, moved to the xkcd forums' Mafia (played quite a bit there), and this is now my second/third game here at mafiascum.
2. I enjoy playing Mafia because... I don't actually know. When I'm Town, I can do analysis on people and stuff. If I'm scum, I can pretend to do analyses

null I think, seems a bit scummy for OMGUSing (kinda), could be town play though because of the “no reason” aspect

43

Questions for people:

@All - Can you give us all a fresh new reason for your vote?

@[L] - How often do you get lynched D1 as scum?
@Prosaurus - If you're so pro, why vote for somebody with over 9000?
@Wingdamage9001 - What's your favourite ProTown role?
@crazypianist1116 - What is your favourite thing to claim while under pressure as scum?
@McGriddle - What would you prefer to be: ProTown or Anti?
@zMuffinMan - If you ran a UPick and somebody submitted "The Muffin Man", would they be ProTown or Anti?
@Romanus - All

roads

lead to Romanus. Is this why you voted for the man who famously lives on a Lane?
@Misder - If you were scum, who would you like your scumbuddies to be (from this playerlist)?

lol, his posts are so null- looks like town play, but could be easily faked as scum play- less serious questions on Prosaurus, Romanus, zMuffinMan

49

"Fresh new reason" was meant to be another random reason for that person. Should've made that clearer, huh.

And, re Fluffy: I... Um... Well, this is my first EVAR rqs, and I was just thinking of things on the spot. I couldn't think of better questions at the time, and I felt I needed to question everyone, because a scum slip could even come through from a ridiculous answer, right?
Like, when somebody says "Well, every other time I've been scum..." is pretty scummy.

And about the question ranked "Fluff around the edges" - well, if we end up killing Misder (and they are scum), we can mostly clear [L] now - or, at least, be a bit less suspicious. Or more, if Misder is the winey kind of person.

seems just newbish to me, slightly townish

51

Or, at least, be a bit less suspicious.

mmmm, strongheaded? His reasoning I think is a bit flawed, esp. since her question is so blatantly obvious that any mafia member would know what he is up to imo, null

93

Wait, I thought we were pressuring Misder?
Um, so, do I vote now, or let somebody else do that :/

I'll go with it.

Unvote: McGriddle
Vote: Misder

And don't hammer 'til we get some stuff from him!

wait what. Where did you come from. Really looks like he’s been lurking- and agrees with pressuring me, but without a clue of why? So confused. Getting a scum read off of this

95

Because...?

null

100

I must say that was kind of weird-looking. I mean, you convince me to vote Misder, then... Jump off so you're not blamed?

I don't like that. I don't have much experience with that sort of thing, but it seems... off.

Unvote
Vote: Romanus

lol what? Romanus convinced you to vote for me? With what? Saying that I’m not scumhunting, when like I see only 2 ppl actually scumhunting in posts? That is just… slightly scummy there- however, I do agree that the jumping off a bandwagon could be seen as scummy, I’m still putting that part as null though

101

EBWOP: That was directed at Romanus, not to Prosaurus

null

103

Can you explain why that post is incriminating, please?

mmmm, more likely null, but can be seen on the scum side because not admitting the obv reason why his previous post was scummy

110

Lost. Why is the IC being difficult? Is difficulty all of a sudden a good playstyle? :/

Lost.

I like the amount of things he has to say :/ /sarcasm- slightly scummy, though could be just me being critical

121

Most Suspicious: Romanus. For the difficulty in general, but mostly the "Yes, I can. No, I won't." (post 104)

That... I don't even know.

sigh, cjdrum’s main reason to vote for Romanus isn’t the reason why he voted for Romanus- expected that it was because of the change of heart in bandwagon- that post 104 just basically only hurts cjdrum, and I think that’s why that’s the only post pointed out- going with slightly scummy here

128

Opinion - I don't like shit stirrers. Maybe if there was some real reasoning behind the stirring of shit, I'd be happy.

But... I don't wanna be lynched. That's my honest opinion.

Not because I have some power role, but because I want to learn past my first Day. Thanks all.


Oh, have I been asked any questions that I've missed? I'm pretty sure you all haven't, but I'm open to questions asked of me, if you point them out, please thankyou.

no way. You just said you didn’t have a pr. What. Are. You. Doing. If. You. Are. Town. And the questioning thing is just stupid, I do that as scum all the time- scum read

138

Well, nobody wants to get lynched. It's like saying "Oh, that person voted for someone. Scum vote for people."
Or even "That person was talking. Scum talk. That person must be scum."

I've been trying to keep up with the IC, and his reasons seemed good. And then he's been all... Mm.
So I've been lost - I've already been programmed to trust ICs, and everything threw me off and I've gone haywire. It's kind of hard to keep up with... What Romanus is being.

Why do you have to lie. You’ve played one game here, and that game the IC was mafia. And you want to trust an IC. What? Where was that programmed to trust IC part in that game. Scum.

[Misder]

crazypianist1116
24

Hey everybody!
I'm crazypianist1116, you can call me any shortened variant of that if you prefer. I'm one of your SEs for the game which means I've played a few games before this one. If you want to ask questions about how to play feel free, but they're probably supposed to be directed at the IC Romanus.

For those who have no clue what's going on, we're in the Random Voting Stage. But this vote should get us out of here:

VOTE: Misder
No reason for unvoting.

A few questions to everybody:
1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

My answer to one is in my wiki which should be linked on the left hand side. As for two, I really enjoy the game because it's a great battle of wits and logical deduction when you're town, and when you're mafia, it's a great game of deception

feels like a stupid vote imo; feel like he should be smarter than that. Slightly scummy

59

Misder, I'm still not seeing how you got a town read from [L] after talking about non-game related content. It's called RVS for a reason.
UTC - 5 now but will be UTC - 6 on Sunday.

What is your favourite thing to claim while under pressure as scum?

Asking what someone would do as scum is a bit WIFOM-y, ne?

mmmm, not pushing anything, just answering stuff really, expect more from SE, slightly scummy imo just because similar to previous game where he was scum

112

This

Wait, I thought we were pressuring Misder?
Um, so, do I vote now, or let somebody else do that :/

I'll go with it.

Unvote: McGriddle
Vote: Misder

And don't hammer 'til we get some stuff from him!

followed by this

I must say that was kind of weird-looking. I mean, you convince me to vote Misder, then... Jump off so you're not blamed?

I don't like that. I don't have much experience with that sort of thing, but it seems... off.

Unvote
Vote: Romanus

equals this:

FoS: cjdrum

It's called bandwagonning. Blatent bandwagonning.

I would vote but this:

Lost. Why is the IC being difficult? Is difficulty all of a sudden a good playstyle? :/

Lost.

Makes me think it's more of a newb tell.

Now for a case on prosaurus.
His two analyses on Misder and Romanus were just way off.

Analysis on: Misder

Town reads in green

Scum reads in red

Neutral in black

Unvote [L]

Fair enough. The thing here is, if he keeps his vote, people could say he has no valid reason to vote. Watch what happens if he unvotes.

That's what RVS is. You could have criticized anyone else on the first page for randomly voting. They all had no reason to vote, but you don't unvote in RVS because it gets you to interesting situations where people start slipping up.

@cjdrum
1) not voting yet, waiting for more activity right now
2) as of right now, zMuffinMan. I feel he is most protown right now alongside with [L], but since I already had some sort of relationship with [L] in the RVS stage, zMuffinMan would be the ideal choice.

And

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

So far, I only got one game, and that was from Prosaurus, and I dont know if that was accidental or not.

Odd choice of scumbuddy. Choosing who you think is most town?

Um, scum would obviously want the most pro-town players on their team, ne?

@[L] It's the same way you are viewing me. I see you as more protown than others (no where do I mention that I'm positive that you are innocent like you state) the same way you view me as more scummy than others. Simple as that. In my book of notes, you and muffin are the only ones that don't have some sort of slight scum read, esp. since you guys questioned the same things I have in my notes, therefore less scummy. I'll agree that it is very early though, which is why I'm holding back all of my thoughts until later when I actually get more evidence on people.

If you and [L] were scum, this would put us off it. We'd say only one of you was scum.

This is very WIFOM-y.

@[L] Admittedly, he only has two posts and his second one I got a null read also. However, I like his first post only because of his attack on Romanus. These are my notes for him:
31

Hi

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. Pretty much none. A friend told me about this game and said it'd be the kind of thing I'd like. He linked me here and I've read a few games he's played in, if that counts for experience at all...
2. Well, it looks like I'd find it enjoyable.

Vote: Romanus

I don't see why you needed to tell us that your vote wasn't serious.

A legit vote cause I was thinking the same thing/or should have been even more, slight town read

@Romanus

You're giving us zero credit if you really think we need to be spoon-fed that badly. Being new doesn't mean we're stupid.

On the topic of making things clear, could you explain the irony in your reasoning for voting me? Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

Agree with Muffin on second paragraph, read is null on this post, but makes more sense if it was town; if Romanus maf, Muffin town imo
38

Australian EST (+10 GMT, +1 for DST), it's 2:22pm now.

I get on when I can, time varies a lot because my current sleeping pattern. I'll probably be posting somewhere between midday and midnight my time most days.

null read

Again, I'm saying that I didn't get a scummy read on him. Everyone else I get something I don't really like.

Like attacking the IC, do you?

Like not pointing out at all what's scummy or why the IC shouldn't be attacked, do you?

@crazy, its the way she plays and how she says things that I like. Sure, maybe first 2 posts aren't ever going to be definite, but that's why I keep note of things that happen after. And with more posts from her, I still like her play except for maybe a small part, but I will still stand that she has pretty much played town so far.
edit before posting: so it seems like pro is on the opposite side of me on [L] which is fine. I disagree with the analysis on the second to last post- I actually view this as town because it pretty much is true. However, I do agree with analysis on the last post, as it did seem a bit scummy to me also, but I view her posts as overall townplay right now.

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

Making his own analysis on [L]. Good.

Still trying to convince us [L] is town. Scumbuddies,

Or being honest?

Trying to put words into people's mouths much? Regarding the quote in question:

"clearing" anyone this early in the game is not possible.

True. But this may be scummy. Mafia don't wish people to be cleared, as it makes those people harder to lynch, meaning a night kill must be used on them, but then people will know that person's reads were honest.

[L] was contradicting cjdrum, who was calling [L] "cleared" town. [L] replied by saying that clearing anyone is not possible. Thinking anyone is "cleared" can lead to tunneling as well as ignoring the "cleared" person. Which can be really bad if the "cleared" person is scum. [L]'s quote was town.

@zMuffinMan
1) In this type of setup, yes. Well, this is my first time playing this setup so uhh... read 2 for more I guess.
2) In other forums where games are much bigger and fast-pased (like 30 ppl and days are 48 hours), it usually started out with just a random lynch, however, these random lynches first start out from voting to lynch inactives, but of course this will lead to discussion, and then, that's where moving the game forward is very easy. I'll also add that I usually don't even participate in the voting to lynch the inactives. In this type of setup, RVS is kind of the same function as what I'm used to; it'll eventually lead to discussion. However, even without RVS, discussion about anything will eventually lead to something (kind of like RQS I guess, but I'm talking about anything here). Of course, deadline is a great incentive to vote, so even if at the end, no one is "scummy", then there will still be an attempted lynch that will move the game forward.
Hope my answers aren't too confusing. I feel like I just blabbled.

True, inactives aren't much of a threat to scum, are they?

But you are talking about in other games, so that doesn't really count.

There's a reason there's a phrase called Lynch all Lurkers. Not that I subscribe to it, but active lurking can be very scummy. You still have the power to vote and do night actions, but you aren't contributing to discussion at all. Lurking or flaking on the other hand is more of a null tell.

@zMuff - I told you it wasn't serious because this is a newbie game, and most especially early on, I feel it is my job as IC to make sure I'm being very clear about what is going on. But jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so this one is serious:

Unvote

Vote: zMuffinMan

1) I've been playing off and on for 5 years or so. Started with meat world playing and then found this site. I haven't been around here in a while, but I plan on being a fixture for a while now.
2) Oddly enough, one of the reasons I play is because I teach writing in college and MS contains some of the best essays on the internet. But also, I just love games, from tabletop minis to board, card, Wow. Yeah, I'll play just about any game.

Too early to make serious votes. He was voting for the person he had most evidence for, no matter how little that was, as this was RVS.

Ha funny. You criticize Romanus for making a serious vote yet it's a response to muffin's serious vote. Romanus saw Muffin's vote as bad. I think that's quite obvious.

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone.

Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

Scum hunting,

But with a lack of evidence.

Evidence in bold. Regardless, why the second sentence isn't red, I don't know as lack of evidence is a scum tell.

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

Grabbing an instrument and jumping on the wagon.

With evidence though.

Romanus, if you have yet to, read this article. You can't criticize him for "jumping on the wagon" if you think his reasons are valid.

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

As IC: I have no problem admitting that I did it poorly. I'd also love suggestions as to how to do the "ease in" in a better fashion.

An IC asking how to be an IC?

If you're the one to "ease them into the game" they'll trust you to be town...

Unless you help them scumhunt, while doing it yourself

If it hasn't been pointed out already:

Don't trust authority because they are authority.

Your point is valid Prosaurus except Romanus has been scumhunting.

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

Only scum want bandwagons.

>_> Bandwagons can be useful. The reactions that someone gives from being under pressure can often reveal them to be scum or town. Also, jumping on a bandwagon for shitty reasons (e.g. cjdrum) is very scummy.

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon. I hate leaving my vote in an innocuous place. Takes away it's teeth and becomes less of a weapon or no weapon at all.

And I support the Misder wagon up until the point I no longer believe he is likely scum.

Only scum want speedlynches.

Is this not obvious?

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Conclusion:

Very scummy.

Unvote

VOTE: Prosaurus

hmmm, agree with crazy’s analysis on Pro’s analysis since I have the same things, but I actually still find the analysis as a town read, but I’ll read that as town, cause he actually read the analysis, and the call on cjdrum is definitely true, I also see this as town play- however, still not off the leash yet, I don’t see any probing like last game he played in…

123

@cjdrum:
3.5 people call you scummy and all you have to say is "I don't get why this one person is voting me?" You are getting scummier by the post. Prosaurus' posts look more newb than scum to me so:

Unvote

VOTE: cjdrum

@Prosaurus:
I read your game and you were lynched basically for not scumhunting. Now you are scumhunting. That does not excuse you from the fact that I didn't like your scumhunting. Bad evidence => Trying to mislynch => Scum.

Further, you must understand Romanus' reason for unvoting. Specifically:

A speed lynch would have been some pretty damning evidence. But the possibility, in a Newbie game, of a player playing the "I'm a noob, I made a mistake" card, made me reconsider L-1.

This is a valid point. Not that there aren't better ways of going about this. One could for example inform the town in bold caps that we're at l-1 and another vote will cause a lynch. That would generally be enough warning to prevent a newb from doing such a thing.

Re: Speed lynches: I was not agreeing that only scum want a speed lynch. Romanus was not saying he wanted a speed lynch. I was referring to this quote:

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

You disconnected the "Is this not obvious?" part from that quote.

I know. I try to think of at least one town read and one scum read per quote.

I just don't like this in general. In can lead to major fence sitting and make you very unsure of yourself. Trying to think of things that aren't there just seems like a bad idea.

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

Only scum want bandwagons.

>_> Bandwagons can be useful. The reactions that someone gives from being under pressure can often reveal them to be scum or town. Also, jumping on a bandwagon for shitty reasons (e.g. cjdrum) is very scummy.

Learning. I don't like bandwagons though.

That's great. Then point out who on the bandwagon you think is in the wrong and why. Pressure, what Romanus was talking about on the other hand, is different. I'll admit I should have said this the first time around, but as Romanus pointed out, I was taking the more liberal definition of bandwagon.

Can everyone post who they think is most suspicious and why?

Addendum: If you aren't voting for who you think is the most suspicious, why not?

I don’t want to get a town view of you, but I am on this post

133

@cjdrum: Have you read the thread?

Not because I have some power role, but because I want to learn past my first Day. Thanks all.

Softclaim PR?

don’t like this post- seems like rolefishing, slightly scummy

134

Also, do you realize you have 3 votes on you at the moment and have only partially tried to defend yourself against one?

@[L] and Misder:
Thoughts on cjdrum and prosaurus?

slight town post

142

WE ARE AT L-1! NO ONE VOTE CJDRUM UNLESS YOU ARE SURE OF YOUR VOTE AND HAVE ASKED FOR A CLAIM!

Posting from my phone. More later.

null.

144

If I wanted to be that blatant, I would have said "Don't lynch him! He's on my team!" But I didn't. My post was merely a warning to everyone so we don't have people playing the newbcard D2.

null.

[Misder]

McGriddle
29

Vote: Cjdrum

no apparent reason. You may call me McG, that's my nickname.

possible connection If McG is maf, cjdrum is likely maf imo

41

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. About 2 years of experience.
2. Same reason as Charlie Sheen. Winning.

Null

44

I just voted for no reason, and I prefer to be pro town

null, leaning towards fake town play=slightly scummy

118

I must say that was kind of weird-looking. I mean, you convince me to vote Misder, then... Jump off so you're not blamed?

I don't like that. I don't have much experience with that sort of thing, but it seems... off.

Unvote
Vote: Romanus

I like where my vote is. I want to change my vote to a real vote. You rode the bandwagon on romanus or w/e really hard and put him at L-1, then when momentum switched off of him for a second you put someone else at L-1. You are really pushing for a quick lynch and therefore my vote will stay on you for now. I lost my interenet for 1 day and all of this goes on, I am pretty lost honestly, but from what I can tell, and from previous experiences in this situation I am fairly confident that cjdrum is scum, and if he isn't he is absent minded town.

kk, town read off this

136

Any opinions on my reasoning for cjdrumscum?

umm, you have same reason as everyone else, so I don’t know if this means you’re not paying attention to what’s happening or what. Null.

137

I mean I know cjdrum is new, I get that, but newbs often make mistakes as scum, "I don't want to be lynched" well neither does scum.

slightly town.

[Misder]

Romanus
16

Vote: Misder

First to confirm just has to be scum, right?

note: this is not a serious vote or strategy at all. Strictly RVS (random vote stage)

so little for an IC imo, need to look into later

32

@zMuff - I told you it wasn't serious because this is a newbie game, and most especially early on, I feel it is my job as IC to make sure I'm being very clear about what is going on. But jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so this one is serious:

Unvote

Vote: zMuffinMan

1) I've been playing off and on for 5 years or so. Started with meat world playing and then found this site. I haven't been around here in a while, but I plan on being a fixture for a while now.
2) Oddly enough, one of the reasons I play is because I teach writing in college and MS contains some of the best essays on the internet. But also, I just love games, from tabletop minis to board, card, Wow. Yeah, I'll play just about any game.

Oh gosh- really need to read one of his games, I don’t agree with him here, OMGUS voting too, looks like taking adv on a newbie game- scum read

70

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone. Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

mmmm, 1st line kind of contradicts with his OMGUS vote, not really easing in new players- the play to win is key imo; and zMuff’s vote was serious imo also, so I don’t really like the way he’s viewing things- slightly scummy

72

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

Defensive but answers all questions posed so good (null read); his vote on me is pretty bad, McGriddle and crazy both have posted nothing basically (scum read), and I had at least provided analysis on L, although technically my “posts” don’t really have scumhunting in it, so I’ll give him that much

73

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

As IC: I have no problem admitting that I did it poorly. I'd also love suggestions as to how to do the "ease in" in a better fashion.

k, still get a null read, but better feel on this post than before

74

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

agree I think, still null, cause if he’s mafia, he knows that forming a wagon on town is good for him

80

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon. I hate leaving my vote in an innocuous place. Takes away it's teeth and becomes less of a weapon or no weapon at all.

And I support the Misder wagon up until the point I no longer believe he is likely scum.

1st point- only thing I don’t like is that person who starts the speedlynch usually isn’t going to be mafia, mafia is going to be the one bandwagoning, and that makes it a bit harder to question people- second paragraph I agree with, although analysis is the way to play to back up the vote, just for pressure is a bad idea- third is common sense- town feel on this post

83

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

agree, same as his previous post- townish read

89

Pressure is good?

Yes

Not backing off what he thought before, I’m still getting a town read

92

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

Speed lynches are BAD for town. With 7 town 2 mafia alive, a speed lynch will probably cause it to be 5 town 2 mafia.

@Wing
Care to say why you're voting, apart from trying to pressure him?

It's partially a pressure vote, but mostly a vote on scum. He was under pressure before I voted him, and he responded poorly. Especially just now.

Pressure is good?

Yes

Someone puts you to L-2 and all you say is "yes?" He hasn't been scumhunting, he's been pushing for unfounded lynches. It's still early, but I'm just about ready to see him lynched. Nothing personal.

I'm not concerned about numbers here. I'm concerned about scumhunting. Odds are we will lynch a townie today. Happens in most games. That really isn't important. What's important is the info you get.

I'm not pushing for lynches, I'm pushing for wagons, serious ones. The simple fact that anyone brought up the possibility of a speed lynch, and the fact that it is tied up in a neat scum bow almost guarantees there will be no speed lynch.

Pressure makes people react. Pressure makes people take a stand in their posts. This is the best way to hunt scum in my opinion.

1st point gives me chills- he hasn’t done any scumhunting, and I don’t like the info part either cause it’s very easy to manipulate words, technically we never actually get info (scum read)- 2nd point I don’t get about the “neat scum bow” part or whatever- 3rd point I agree (slight town read)

94

Unvote

scum read- contradiction to his previous post talking about L-1 is ok for me, and I didn’t post anything after that (read 96)

96

Honestly, that vote is for some breathing room. And I realize it contradicts my post #83, but I got nervous. Too easy for someone to hammer and claim they made a mistake somehow.

k, that offs my scum read on 94, so null

98

Are you insinuating something?

meh, null again

102

Just before you encouraged us to join the bandwagon and speed lynch. Now you're doing the opposite, after I pointed it out.

You weren't scum hunting. You were encouraging speed lynches before we get any evidence.

A speed lynch would have been some pretty damning evidence. But the possibility, in a Newbie game, of a player playing the "I'm a noob, I made a mistake" card, made me reconsider L-1.

Anyway, I think I may have found some real scum

Wait, I thought we were pressuring Misder?
Um, so, do I vote now, or let somebody else do that :/

I'll go with it.

Unvote: McGriddle
Vote: Misder

And don't hammer 'til we get some stuff from him!

Vote: cjdrum

I actually found that post to be scummy also- could be town post because of that- or can be scum post trying to distract from his own lynch

104

Yes, I can. No, I won't.

wow, never played with anybody like this, but I think I can see how this could be a town play- don’t give scum a way to defend, could be scum read though also because of withholding evidence- look back later

108

Unvote

To avoid a hammer before Romanus claims. Romanus, please claim ASAP.

null

117

I pointed out the post that I think is scummy. If you don't find it scummy, fine. But I refuse to think for people.

"Please, please, give me reasons that I can parrot." I don't think so. Think for yourself. No townie should want to be spoonfed.

And there is no way I am claiming right now. Someone is trying to take control of this game, and it ain't me.

oh goodness. I don’t like this- esp. if in a newbie game and you stated that you play to win, part of winning as town is convincing other town that the person is scum… scum read on this- also don’t understand point 3

119

As IC: I think the term bandwagon, or wagon is used rather loosely on this site. As I understand it, a wagon can refer to any person with any votes on them. At least, I have heard it referred to as such. This is the official entry from the wiki:

Several Votes on the same player to try to Lynch them or force them to roleclaim; especially used if the votes come in quick succession and without independent reasons.

Bandwagons can be especially frustrating for players, because they can seem to build a momentum of their own, often independent of the validity of the original reasoning that started it. Some players (Pro-Town or Scum) will even give up, rather than face the uphill battle of recovering against such an onslaught.

Bandwagoning is usually used on Day 1 to quickly gather information on players' roles and voting patterns. It is especially dangerous during Lynch-or-Lose situations (where one misvote will make the town lose) and should be avoided at that point.

I wanted to preemptively address this to avoid derailing the game into a discussion on what a wagon is. Prosaurus is using the precise definition of the word, but others will use it with a more liberal definition.

null, just being IC, although weird cause of beginning fail as IC

127

This is a bit of an aside, and maybe a defense of some sort. As is in my signature, I like stirring shit. It has to be done. The best way to get it done is to do some controversial thing. I have done that. I took a stand for a type of play I like, that is, getting someone close to a lynch and seeing how people react. The quickness and ease at which the L-1 vote came in made me reconsider what was going on. Attention has to be drawn somewhere. And I don't mind being in the spotlight. I say things that will generate reactions. Things I fully intend to explain later, like the "Yes I can, No I won't," line.

Unvoting when it got to L-1 was prudent. It could also be interpreted a few ways. I also determined that my vote was in the wrong place.

I was and continue to hunt scum. I have my methods, and I like them.

cjdrum is our lynch for today. Opinions?

sigh, this thing is getting way out of hand; I was only at L-2, I wouldn’t call that controversial at all- however I get a overall town read off this

[Misder]

WingDamage9001
27

Vote McGriddle

Told ya.

As for crazy's questions,
1. This is my second game here, and I have three games on another site.
2. I enjoy playing mafia because it is fun. Heh.

@[L] - My wings aren't the ones that are damaged...

60

VOTE: WingDamage9001 because it's over 9000!

It's true.

@Wingdamage9001 - What's your favourite ProTown role?

I'd have to go with cop on that one.

@WingDamage: Expound on what is "fun" about mafia by sharing your favorite game mechanic.

I enjoy most scum mechanics. I think that having more night choices to make than just your kill adds a new dimension to the game. Pro-town, I like cop. I like to be able to validate my opinions with some solid fact.

Now, with that out of the way, more quotes! And a wall of text. Sorry.

@Romanus Don't OMGUS, that pretty much got me killed me on my last game

Coaching a bit here? Romanus is the IC here, I think he/she(?) understands basic gameplay. Why do you direct him/her(?)?

Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

The basis of scum hunting, and the only way to end RVS is to jump on people for something. This early in the game, anything is enough to jump on, if only to start a conversation. You seem to be jumping on Romanus for something pretty tiny. Did you feel that it was a large enough transgression to warrant suspicion?

Also, can I ask what kind of time zones you guys are in?
And how long you guys will be on each day?

I'm in US EST, and I can be on most of the afternoon/evening.

Your "valid" questions ask things that will reveal important evidence for later in the game. But the fluffy questions are very noncommittal and lack substance... as if you were just filling in a question so as to not leave anyone out, or because you did not feel the need to investigate someone you already know about. Just my thoughts. But it is still early in the game, so there isn't much to ask anyhow, and you've done more work than others.

Are the fluffy questions you asked to be considered relevant?

Because I am following a hunch; I do not like how he can decide so early in the game that I am innocent.

What important information can be gleaned from the question to me? Or to pretty much anyone? I would think they are easy enough questions to make up a town-sounding answer for.
What exactly is the hunch that you're following?

@Wing, anyone you think is suspicious now that we have pretty much past RVS?

Not particularly. I would say [L], but I have no strong reads on anyone. I need to see more from everyone before putting together a list.

With that out of the way,
@Everyone: I'd like to see more clearly stated cases. Rather than say, so and so seems scummy, provide reasoning. It makes your case more convincing, and makes it look more like scum hunting, and less like scum pushing a mislynch. Thanks

slightly scummy, some contradiction here, says that he says [L] most scummy, but doesn’t provide a case, yet then asks everyone to make a strong case- anyone that catches this is prob town- and I also don’t agree with what he’s talking about so…

77

Did you miss Romanus's post? I was pointing out irony.

I was (and am) trying to extract information based on something I picked up that didn't feel right. I don't feel this is proof he is scum, but it's a lead to extract information on the way he plays the game.

I'm not sure what you mean by a transgression large enough to warrant suspicion. Everything is suspicious and everyone is suspicious. I'm the only person I can trust right now.

I didn't. And I'm not sure what irony you mean.

Sure.

I mean is it suspicious enough to follow up on. Do you think that it was scummy enough to point out? You said that jumping on people for something tiny was scummy, so for you not to be scummy, you must not think it was tiny. You contradict yourself, and I don't like it.

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

How much do you support this wagon? L-2 is a dangerous position. Are you prepared to see a speedlynch like this?

meh, there might be a relationship between Wing and Romanus, but unlikely imo, contradiction claim can be iffy cause need to assume what Muffin thinks, and also no actual vote on him so… (slightly scum) I kinda like his second paragraph though (slightly town)

82

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon. I hate leaving my vote in an innocuous place. Takes away it's teeth and becomes less of a weapon or no weapon at all.

And I support the Misder wagon up until the point I no longer believe he is likely scum.

But unless they were obvious about it, they could shroud it in logic just as solid as yours. At this point I'm still unsure on everyone, so I'm not attacking you, but I feel uneasy.

More importantly, @Everyone: Answer the questions from my earlier wall 'o text!!

1st part is null; second part- what questions? Only thing I see telling everyone to have clear cases

87

Unvote, Vote Romanus

Pressure is good?

lololol, Wing acting cheeky typical Wing reaction imo, so actually town read, as null as this post might seem

90

@Wing
Care to say why you're voting, apart from trying to pressure him?

It's partially a pressure vote, but mostly a vote on scum. He was under pressure before I voted him, and he responded poorly. Especially just now.

Pressure is good?

Yes

Someone puts you to L-2 and all you say is "yes?" He hasn't been scumhunting, he's been pushing for unfounded lynches. It's still early, but I'm just about ready to see him lynched. Nothing personal.

1st point I can see where Wing is coming from, although I have completely different view- 2nd point is true, no scumhunting, town read

105

Yes, I can. No, I won't.

And why not? Withholding information is scummy. You seem to have no town motivations for anything you do.

null, everything that I think about him is above, this just fits into what hes doing

124

I didn't. And I'm not sure what irony you mean.

Sure.

I mean is it suspicious enough to follow up on. Do you think that it was scummy enough to point out? You said that jumping on people for something tiny was scummy, so for you not to be scummy, you must not think it was tiny. You contradict yourself, and I don't like it.

I was talking about the irony of jumping on someone early for something small supposedly being a scum-tell. I'm not actually sure if he really uses it as scum-tell, I was just quoting him because I found it appropriate that it appeared he was doing what he thought was a scum-tell. It was sarcasm, maybe you didn't pick it up.

How much do you support this wagon? L-2 is a dangerous position. Are you prepared to see a speedlynch like this?

This, followed by,

Unvote, Vote Romanus
Pressure is good?

Do I point out the irony here? You're doing what you didn't like me doing.

You're contradicting yourself, but you don't like contradicting?

I didn't pick up on the sarcasm, sorry. Intonation is lost on the interwebs. I never said I didn't like you voting. I asked if you were ready to lynch someone. I am ready to lynch someone. They're two different things.

meh, null.

143

WE ARE AT L-1! NO ONE VOTE CJDRUM UNLESS YOU ARE SURE OF YOUR VOTE AND HAVE ASKED FOR A CLAIM!

Posting from my phone. More later.

Translation: "Rahhh! Don't lynch my scumbuddy! At least not before I can bus them a bit! Posting from my phone. More later."
Ha.

Classic Wing. Null.

145

@Wing That was just dumb.

How's that?

null.

[Misder]

zMuffinMan
31

Hi

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. Pretty much none. A friend told me about this game and said it'd be the kind of thing I'd like. He linked me here and I've read a few games he's played in, if that counts for experience at all...
2. Well, it looks like I'd find it enjoyable.

Vote: Romanus

I don't see why you needed to tell us that your vote wasn't serious.

A legit vote cause I was thinking the same thing/or should have been even more, slight town read

34

@Romanus

You're giving us zero credit if you really think we need to be spoon-fed that badly. Being new doesn't mean we're stupid.

On the topic of making things clear, could you explain the irony in your reasoning for voting me? Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

Agree with Muffin on second paragraph, read is null on this post, but makes more sense if it was town; if Romanus maf, Muffin town

38

Australian EST (+10 GMT, +1 for DST), it's 2:22pm now.

I get on when I can, time varies a lot because my current sleeping pattern. I'll probably be posting somewhere between midday and midnight my time most days.

null read

61

@cjdrum

Can you give us all a fresh new reason for your vote?

A new reason? Not really. I guess you could say I don't like the vibe coming from Romanus's posts at the moment, and I'll wait to see how he responds to the last page of posts before I do anything.

@zMuffinMan - If you ran a UPick and somebody submitted "The Muffin Man", would they be ProTown or Anti?

The Muffin Man doesn't really sound like an anti-town role, but I might make it anti-town because of that. It would probably depend on the other names submitted, I don't really know how UPicks work (only just read the wiki page for it).


@[L]

@MuffinMan: After reading your friend's games, what is one thing you learned? What appeals to you to make this game interesting?

What I learned? That's a tough question. I wasn't really reading through the games thinking about what I was learning at the time, and my friend was answering any questions I had. I knew the result of the games before I read through them. If I had to say one thing I learned, it would be the need to thoroughly think through everything before trusting any assumptions.
What appeals to me? I like the style of the game. One team has to find any information they can and analyse it, while the other team relies on deception to outplay their opponents. I'm a kinesthetic person, and consider myself very intuitive. This sort of thing is right up my alley.


@Misder

@zMuffinMan Why do you find it demeaning that Romanus is trying to be the IC?

That's a somewhat loaded question. My problem isn't with Romanus "trying to be the IC", my problem is with what he was saying.

I haven't played before, but I ask of anyone who read Romanus's first post:

When you read the first line, did you seriously think to yourself, "wow, that's a valid tactic for finding scum"?

Were you flabbergasted when he revealed on the second line of his post that it wasn't a real strategy?

He didn't even properly explain what RVS is, so if you didn't have any idea what he was doing, how would the second line have helped?

I don't like the way the second line was written. I don't see it as him making things clear or being helpful "as an IC".


@WingDamage9001

The basis of scum hunting, and the only way to end RVS is to jump on people for something. This early in the game, anything is enough to jump on, if only to start a conversation. You seem to be jumping on Romanus for something pretty tiny. Did you feel that it was a large enough transgression to warrant suspicion?

Did you miss Romanus's post? I was pointing out irony.

I was (and am) trying to extract information based on something I picked up that didn't feel right. I don't feel this is proof he is scum, but it's a lead to extract information on the way he plays the game.

I'm not sure what you mean by a transgression large enough to warrant suspicion. Everything is suspicious and everyone is suspicious. I'm the only person I can trust right now.

pretty townlike to me, not too overly defensive, and I like that- also, answers my question the way that I expected- surprised he didn’t bring up the OMGUS vote by Romanus though- only thing that worries me is not actively looking for scum

68

@Misder

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

At the moment, it's a combination of both. I don't like the way he came across in his first post and I don't like the reasoning in his second post. It's not one more than the other.

The 'OMGUS' itself is a pretty small factor to me. It's not so much that he voted for me, but that his reason was rather hypocritical.

A couple questions for you, though:

When you play town, do you only vote for people if you think they're mafia? (Not including any RVS vote)

Suppose you were town in a game where no one voted for anyone else unless they were fairly sure the person they're voting for is mafia, how would you move the game forward?

hmmmm, different from what I expected, but not scummy play- just expected it to be more of the OMGUS vote- questions are always good, and I see where he’s going with this, so slightly town.

71

@Romanus

How was your first post designed to ease players into the game? If I had no idea what RVS was, do you think your post would have helped me?
Why did you feel it was necessary to make a post early?
Do you think your reason for voting me could be construed an innocent reason for pushing a wagon?
Is there a reason you're not pushing, just waiting?

2nd question 1st point is questionable, rest are decent questions imo, town read

122

I'm just getting some fluff out of the way before I properly read the last two pages. It seems the action picked up while I wasn't around.

@Romanus

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

I actually didn't even realise you were the IC until you told me after I voted you. It didn't look like something an IC would post, and when you explained it away as doing it because you were IC, it confused me even more.

As IC: I have no problem admitting that I did it poorly. I'd also love suggestions as to how to do the "ease in" in a better fashion.

Honestly, I was expecting some big post explaining that you were the IC and what your role is in this game; it's what I've seen from reading other games. That's partially why I didn't even realise you were the IC.

e.g. newbie 1083: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p2895552
newbie 1081: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p2894822
newbie 1080: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2886374


@Wingdamage9001

I didn't. And I'm not sure what irony you mean.

Sure.

I mean is it suspicious enough to follow up on. Do you think that it was scummy enough to point out? You said that jumping on people for something tiny was scummy, so for you not to be scummy, you must not think it was tiny. You contradict yourself, and I don't like it.

I was talking about the irony of jumping on someone early for something small supposedly being a scum-tell. I'm not actually sure if he really uses it as scum-tell, I was just quoting him because I found it appropriate that it appeared he was doing what he thought was a scum-tell. It was sarcasm, maybe you didn't pick it up.

How much do you support this wagon? L-2 is a dangerous position. Are you prepared to see a speedlynch like this?

This, followed by,

Unvote, Vote Romanus
Pressure is good?

Do I point out the irony here? You're doing what you didn't like me doing.

You're contradicting yourself, but you don't like contradicting?



Re-reading the last couple pages after I get something to eat.

town imo, goes back and answers stuff, but I like his second point

126

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon.

I agree with this. I find it interesting that people wouldn't agree with this. It's why I was questioning Misder at the bottom of page 3.

Yes, you have questioning and analysis, but it really gets you nowhere without voting.

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch?

I wouldn't say there's any more or less "danger", it's just I don't see any real point to it. Why would you want to rush a lynch?

If you think there's no real danger in a speed lynch, why were you worried when it reached L-1?

I'm not satisfied with you claiming that you didn't realise it's a newbie game and someone could claim they made a mistake when hammering. How did you not realise that before?

Romanus was not saying he wanted a speed lynch.

You're right, but he was suggesting he saw no problem with speed lynches.




@Wingdamage9001,

I never said I didn't like you voting. I asked if you were ready to lynch someone.

I don't recall you ever asking me if I was prepared to lynch someone. I recall you asking me whether I thought what Romanus had said was a good enough reason to vote someone, but that's different. I wasn't pushing a lynch, I was making a vote.

Why are you ready to lynch someone now?



@Prosaurus,

Could you analyse your own posts from an objective point of view?

Can everyone post who they think is most suspicious and why?

Romanus. The incongruity of his play so far makes no sense. The only problem I have is that it doesn't fit my image of how an IC would play as scum, but that's somewhat WIFOM-y (hope I'm using this expression correctly).

more reason to think youre town, esp. points on Romanus

[Misder]

So, the forum doesn't like it when I post my analysis on Pro, cause I can't embed more than 5 quotes together, but basically, I got a town read from him. I can post if people actually want it lol.

tl;dr: [L] most likely town, cjdrum looks scummy, crazy I just get bad vibes- no scumhunting from any of his posts even throughout all discussion, McGriddle is null, he needs to post more, Pro is most likely town, Romanus looks scummy, Wing is playing his typical town, Muffin is most likely town

[Misder]

@why I didn't vote for cjdrum. I really feel that Romanus+crazy are a team, and much more scummy than cjdrum. I can give cjdrum a newbie card slightly, cause I did read his one game that he got replaced. However, I also read crazy's game where he was mafia, and I feel he's playing pretty much the same way as he was mafia. Meaning, I give more weight on a romanus+crazy team. And Romanus still seems scummy to me, so I like a romanus vote better than a hammer vote on cjdrum.

[Misder]

35

@Romanus Don't OMGUS, that pretty much got me killed me on my last game.

Experience: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=16842 and one or two of the card version at school.
Why's this fun?: I dunno. I just find it fun.

VOTE: WingDamage9001 because it's over 9000!

Null read, not scummy, could be relationship with Romanus (scumbuddies), more likely slightly town

36

Also, can I ask what kind of time zones you guys are in?
And how long you guys will be on each day?

Well I'm in New Zealand, and I can come on for about 4 hours a day starting from about 4pm here to 8pm.

mmmm, feels like his town play

37

And as for the avatar, I was waiting on getting on a new one, people in my last game were complaining that I didn't have one, I just got a random one.

ehh, useless info that I already knew about, feels the need to justify everything, can be seen as slightly scummy



46

@cjdrum
1. No. No I can't.
2. :C

@Misder No it wasn't.

null

47

By the way, sometimes I come on before school. Like now.

null

67

@Misder I know it's true, but I'm trying to think of it from a different angle to what most town players would.
That post there is already giving me a town read on you.

A little on the defensive side for my taste, but doesn’t seem scummy, more townish (could be biased though cause of seeing me as town)

73

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

completely agree, null

74

Oh, and that's putting him at L-2 on page 3. Not always the best thing to do.

meh, doesn’t matter much to me, need to look back on this later

78

Analysis on: Misder

Town reads in green

Scum reads in red

Neutral in black

Unvote [L]

Fair enough. The thing here is, if he keeps his vote, people could say he has no valid reason to vote. Watch what happens if he unvotes.

1. Few. 0 on this forum though, so the way I play may be a bit different. Oh, and epicmafia, but that's a completely different game imo.
2. It's all about deception and hunting. And it feels good to nail down mafia or completely messing with town.

@crazy- I got a response from [L] and I'm satisfied. Really, no reason to vote for someone that I feel is less scummy than the rest, even if it is RVS.

Also, this game pace is really slow from what I'm used to... zzzzz

Agreed. This is pretty slow.

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

Getting to know people,

Or finding the biggest threat?

US EDT (UTC/GMT -4 hours) Its 11:27 PM right now. My times will vary a lot I think, mostly at my nighttime I suppose.

Null

@cjdrum
1) not voting yet, waiting for more activity right now
2) as of right now, zMuffinMan. I feel he is most protown right now alongside with [L], but since I already had some sort of relationship with [L] in the RVS stage, zMuffinMan would be the ideal choice.

And

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

So far, I only got one game, and that was from Prosaurus, and I dont know if that was accidental or not.

Odd choice of scumbuddy. Choosing who you think is most town?

@[L] It's the same way you are viewing me. I see you as more protown than others (no where do I mention that I'm positive that you are innocent like you state) the same way you view me as more scummy than others. Simple as that. In my book of notes, you and muffin are the only ones that don't have some sort of slight scum read, esp. since you guys questioned the same things I have in my notes, therefore less scummy. I'll agree that it is very early though, which is why I'm holding back all of my thoughts until later when I actually get more evidence on people.

If you and [L] were scum, this would put us off it. We'd say only one of you was scum.

@Wing, anyone you think is suspicious now that we have pretty much past RVS?

@zMuffinMan Why do you find it demeaning that Romanus is trying to be the IC?

@Romanus, what is your role as the IC and how are you going to accomplish this?

@McGriddle, how did you choose cjdrum as your random vote? Also, why do you like townside better than scumside?

Random fluff to start discussion

@[L] Admittedly, he only has two posts and his second one I got a null read also. However, I like his first post only because of his attack on Romanus. These are my notes for him:
31

Hi

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. Pretty much none. A friend told me about this game and said it'd be the kind of thing I'd like. He linked me here and I've read a few games he's played in, if that counts for experience at all...
2. Well, it looks like I'd find it enjoyable.

Vote: Romanus

I don't see why you needed to tell us that your vote wasn't serious.

A legit vote cause I was thinking the same thing/or should have been even more, slight town read

@Romanus

You're giving us zero credit if you really think we need to be spoon-fed that badly. Being new doesn't mean we're stupid.

On the topic of making things clear, could you explain the irony in your reasoning for voting me? Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

Agree with Muffin on second paragraph, read is null on this post, but makes more sense if it was town; if Romanus maf, Muffin town imo
38

Australian EST (+10 GMT, +1 for DST), it's 2:22pm now.

I get on when I can, time varies a lot because my current sleeping pattern. I'll probably be posting somewhere between midday and midnight my time most days.

null read

Again, I'm saying that I didn't get a scummy read on him. Everyone else I get something I don't really like.

Like attacking the IC, do you?

Sorry, three posts. I mislabeled in my notes, as you can see by my missing number on the second quote x.x' Second quote is post 34. Also, just wondering what your last post is about L.

Null

@crazy, its the way she plays and how she says things that I like. Sure, maybe first 2 posts aren't ever going to be definite, but that's why I keep note of things that happen after. And with more posts from her, I still like her play except for maybe a small part, but I will still stand that she has pretty much played town so far.
edit before posting: so it seems like pro is on the opposite side of me on [L] which is fine. I disagree with the analysis on the second to last post- I actually view this as town because it pretty much is true. However, I do agree with analysis on the last post, as it did seem a bit scummy to me also, but I view her posts as overall townplay right now.

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

Making his own analysis on [L]. Good.

Still trying to convince us [L] is town. Scumbuddies,

Or being honest?

@zMuffinMan
1) In this type of setup, yes. Well, this is my first time playing this setup so uhh... read 2 for more I guess.
2) In other forums where games are much bigger and fast-pased (like 30 ppl and days are 48 hours), it usually started out with just a random lynch, however, these random lynches first start out from voting to lynch inactives, but of course this will lead to discussion, and then, that's where moving the game forward is very easy. I'll also add that I usually don't even participate in the voting to lynch the inactives. In this type of setup, RVS is kind of the same function as what I'm used to; it'll eventually lead to discussion. However, even without RVS, discussion about anything will eventually lead to something (kind of like RQS I guess, but I'm talking about anything here). Of course, deadline is a great incentive to vote, so even if at the end, no one is "scummy", then there will still be an attempted lynch that will move the game forward.
Hope my answers aren't too confusing. I feel like I just blabbled.

True, inactives aren't much of a threat to scum, are they?

But you are talking about in other games, so that doesn't really count.

Conclusion:

More scum than town.

Points on me trying to paint L as town is true, I can kinda see where he’s getting that we could be scumbuddies, but I did clearly state that I only had couple of posts to work with and within those posts, L was most town, although actually, makes sense cause he thought that L was scum; point on random fluff is wrong, they were genuine questions that I needed answers to in order to get a better understanding of some posts; point on me attacking IC and labeling as scum is pretty weird imo, IC are just regular ppl, and esp. the way that this IC plays his role doesn’t make me feel that he’s definitely town; last point I don’t really get where he’s getting at, but umm… other than that, feels like town analysis, albeit a bit bad

79

FoS:[L] and Misder

But I'm no voting till I have better reads, and I don't want L-1 this early.

makes sense, null though

81

Will analyze others soon. Romanus is next, considering I'm getting scum reads from his last post.

Wow lol, Pro is on a roll of getting the opposite reads as me, could be a sign of scum, need to look into

84

Analysis on:

Town reads in green

Scum reads in red

Neutral in black

I got six real posts to go off.

@zMuff - I told you it wasn't serious because this is a newbie game, and most especially early on, I feel it is my job as IC to make sure I'm being very clear about what is going on. But jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so this one is serious:

Unvote

Vote: zMuffinMan

1) I've been playing off and on for 5 years or so. Started with meat world playing and then found this site. I haven't been around here in a while, but I plan on being a fixture for a while now.
2) Oddly enough, one of the reasons I play is because I teach writing in college and MS contains some of the best essays on the internet. But also, I just love games, from tabletop minis to board, card, Wow. Yeah, I'll play just about any game.

Too early to make serious votes. He was voting for the person he had most evidence for, no matter how little that was, as this was RVS.

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone. Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

Scum hunting,

But with a lack of evidence.

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

Grabbing an instrument and jumping on the wagon.

With evidence though.

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

As IC: I have no problem admitting that I did it poorly. I'd also love suggestions as to how to do the "ease in" in a better fashion.

An IC asking how to be an IC?

If you're the one to "ease them into the game" they'll trust you to be town...

Unless you help them scumhunt, while doing it yourself

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

Only scum want bandwagons.

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon. I hate leaving my vote in an innocuous place. Takes away it's teeth and becomes less of a weapon or no weapon at all.

And I support the Misder wagon up until the point I no longer believe he is likely scum.

Only scum want speedlynches.

Conclusion:

Very scummy.

Unvote

VOTE: Romanus

Analysis on 2nd post I disagree with, no scumhunting whatsoever- analysis on 3rd post, I don’t see evidence but I do see a reason to better reason to vote- I can see where he’s getting that speedlynches are scummy- as much as my analysis is completely opposite of Pro, I can see where hes getting his stuff, so town read

85

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

Speed lynches are BAD for town. With 7 town 2 mafia alive, a speed lynch will probably cause it to be 5 town 2 mafia.

I can see the logic of that (null)- this is interesting, if Romanus backs off, I feel mafia read on Romanus


88

@Wing
Care to say why you're voting, apart from trying to pressure him?

As different as he’s playing in his previous game, I like this guy, town read

91

@Romanus Acting confident, are we? Unless you can convince us you aren't scum (Which will be hard), I see a lynch in your future.

null read

97

Haha, nice mood change there.

so he saw the same contradiction I saw, null still

99

Just before you encouraged us to join the bandwagon and speed lynch. Now you're doing the opposite, after I pointed it out.

You weren't scum hunting. You were encouraging speed lynches before we get any evidence.

null, but in agreement with what he said earlier

106

The evidence grows. Romanus, you better start acting like town.

null, everything that I feel about Pro is above

107

Although cjdrum does seem to be bandwagoning a lot. Maybe they're scum? Or possibly just a newbie not know who to vote for.

I get a town read from this, no tunneling from him which is good

111

I don't care. He acts like scum, he gets lynched like scum.

null I think

113

I'm going by what I learnt in my previous game. They bandwagoned me, and what happened? They killed the doctor.
I never said he wasn't scum hunting, I said that's what he should be doing.
Like I've said before, I'm trying to think differently. And those last two posts of Romanus' really made me think of him as scummy. Then he changed and started being against bandwagons and speed lynches. Seems suspicious to me.

slightly town read, I think, cause of third point

114

I would like you to take into account that I've only had one other game, and I was bandwagon-lynched on Day 1. Therefore, I am against bandwagons.

null on this



116

McGriddle should really post.

agreed, null though

120

Can everyone post who they think is most suspicious and why?

For me, I'd still say Romanus is most suspicious, for the whole speed lynch thing, then changing his mind. But he seems to be acting more like an IC now, so that's good, I will be rethinking my vote.

slightly town post

125

@crazy I removed my voted because he was at L-1 and I didn't want him to be hammered till he had claimed etc.
Yes, I'm trying hard to scum hunt. I'll read advice and learn.

kk, null.

129

Here's what I learnt: If you try to survive, you won't.
You'll be accused of being scum.

null.

130

There will be other games for you to learn. Read my last game, see what happened to me. I don't want it to happen to any other townie.

null again

131

PS: Reposting the link: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16842

null again. Read this before you even posted it the first time lol

132

Sorry, It's: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=16842

null. If you could stop quadruple posting, that would be amazing- conserve space on my notes. K thanks.

145

@Misder Yes I am playing differently. I'm trying to avoid what I did last time that got me lynched.

@Wing That was just dumb.

I still dunno about cjdrum. Seems more newb than anything, we'll have to let him defend himself.

@cjdrum Read my last game. It's happening to you now.

k, answers my question like I thought, slightly town.

150

@Wing Why would we lynch them without letting them defend themselves? It's not a scumtell at all.

@[L] Thanks for your input. I suppose I should have waited a bit before doing such analyzing.

slightly townish.

151

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

town read.

[Misder]

and Post 115- which was the post that messed everything up- Still strong, so I’m going to lean town on this

[Misder]

@crazy, I'll argue that what you did wasn't truly scumhunting. On cjdrum- I'll give you an obvious FOS that you pointed out, which is fine, but barely any work was done- just connected two posts. Then on Pro, you just took apart his analysis, and then called him very scummy- maybe because I'm biased cause I got an opposite read on his analysis, even though I'll agree it was bad- but I also don't see picking apart analysis as scumhunting either.

And this one http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16399

I'm going to sleep now =D night!

[Misder]

@crazy, I don't know if the question you are referring to is the one that muffin asked, but I answered that post 188

and @Pro- yeah, in my notes, I didn't have it linked to the post, so all I did was copy and paste. I'll do it next time if I figure out how to link a post :/

Also, the notes are only thoughts right when I read them, which means I do I have to reread them again

[Misder]

@crazy new post- that requires me to actually write stuff out- I'll do it tomorrow on why I feel like there are parallels
@everyone else- you guys could read that game and see if you get the same thoughts that I do

[Misder]

Ouch. I just got prodded. My fault for being late on the thread.

On Prosaurus: Just stating it right now, I'm not ready to hammer him. I reread his posts from day 1 and today and here's the thing: I get a mostly town view of him of day 1. However I do find him scummy from his WIFOM post early day 2 because the post was basically really pointless. However, I can feel like I can be in his shoes if he is trying to help town and I can see where his posts come from. The way he hammered cjdrum really reminds me of how zblorg (or whoever hammered Pro his last game) hammered. Also, there are some points in L's analysis I do disagree with, esp. after reading Pro's response to it. There is one thing that stuck with me from the analysis which is how it can be seen as if Pro knew that cjdrum was town, especially at the end of day 1.
Let's go over L's analysis + Pro's comments:

Vote: Prosaurus

I am certain he is scum. Not only has he shown definite knowledge on people's alignment, but he has even used WIFOM and tried to postulate why the mafia killed McGriddle. Everyone knows it is a scum tell to try and guess why the mafia did something, and I see those postulations as trying to confuse the town and make them think harder. He's even played the newb card too many times. I'm certain he's one of them.

PBPA:
Post 11: Seems he's eager to start the game, to me. Unbiased: He's asking when the game starts.
Post 13: Null.
Post 35-37: Tells Romanus not to OMGUS because it got Prosaurus killed in his last game. Asks time zone question. Talks about avatar. Null...

I actually get more of a town read from his 35

Post 46-47:

@cjdrum
1. No. No I can't.
2. :C

@Misder No it wasn't.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what questions cjdrum asked of him, and what these replies mean. Clarification Prosaurus?

The random fluff questions they posted.

meh. I don't like him saying that my question was fluff, cause it wasn't. And especially because I already stated the reason why I had my question. This does give me a harsher feeling towards him, but that's because of bias. i'll say slightly scummy here.

Post 62-65: Makes it a point to point out that "so far I've only been town." Sure, it could be true, but it says nothing for this game. Moves on to analyze me.

Analysing: [L]

Vote: WingDamage

, cos his wings had to have gotten damaged from violent activity.

Casual RVS stuff. But I thought you thought that they were called 'WingDamaged'?

Null.

I don't like bad people. Why do you like the evil one?

Don't see what you mean here.

Null.

@WingDamage: hehe, I see that now that I'm on a larger screen. I misread your name as "WingDamaged" on my iPod. So whose wings will you be damaging tonight? >__>

@Crazy:
1. I've been playing real life mafia for about 10 years with a solid group of friends, with intermittent change-ups. I've played a couple games here on mafiascum, but I was seriously intimidated.
2. I enjoy playing mafia because I love reading people and using my intuition. The latter oftentimes is not accepted among the males... but I am usually pretty accurate. Playing online affords me the chance to read over discussions many times, to get a better feel for people. I'm a horrible liar. I always get caught as mafia. As such, I much prefer to play as an innocent....usually not even as a power role.

~tldr: I like reading people.

You seem to like town... Always a good thing. If you're such a horrible liar though, I'll be watching for any lies, I'm sure the others will be too.

Granted, I was a little put off by this comment but I won't let it color my views. But it seems worded... funny.

I just set up my wiki!

[http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=L]

No comment

Null.

@cjdrum: hehehe, Usually on day 1 or day 2... I have a bad record. Once I made it to the end as Mafia by not saying anything and looking distracted the entire game... Everyone didn't expect that xD

I'd say my best strength is being a prosecutor.

Speaking of which, why are some of your questions to these players pointed, while others are fluffy (for lack of a better word)?

...

*

@Misder: On two occasions, you have stated your surety of my innocence. I don't trust you; just being upfront. It seems as though you are trying to be my buddy, hoping that I will extend the courtesy of dropping suspicion of you. :/
Why exactly have you pegged me as an innocent?

@Prosaurus: I am in the Eastern time zone (GMT -5). My activity will be sporadic and not limited to certain times of the day. But I will at least post everyday. Could you expound the game mechanics that make Mafia "fun" for you?

@cjdrum: Regarding "fresh new reason"...

Unvote: WingDamage

This vote was random.

Vote: Misder

Because I am following a hunch; I do not like how he can decide so early in the game that I am innocent.

@McGriddle: Could you share more about how this "winning" occurs?

@MuffinMan: After reading your friend's games, what is one thing you learned? What appeals to you to make this game interesting?

@Romanus: What game mechanics in Mafia appeal to your personality? What are the "itty bitty things" that spurred your vote? Please expand.

@WingDamage: Expound on what is "fun" about mafia by sharing your favorite game mechanic.

@All: Banzaii!! Feed meh

*

So why have you pinned them as scummy? Redirecting attention, or being honest?
As for your hunch, I see your reasoning (Mafia know who's town and who isn't), but it's still too early to pin these labels on anyone.

This question is asked as if pinning people as scummy is not what I am supposed to do. Redirecting attention? Is that what YOU'RE doing?

"clearing" anyone this early in the game is not possible.

True. But this may be scummy. Mafia don't wish people to be cleared, as it makes those people harder to lynch, meaning a night kill must be used on them, but then people will know that person's reads were honest.

I already spoke on this, but I will again for the sake of the PBPA. It is impossible for people to be cleared just coming out of the RVS stage. Later in the game, if someone couldn't be cleared, sure - the Mafia wouldn't like that. But that wasn't relevant. The argument involving Mafia is a straw man fallacy that was not relating to what I was actually talking about, and therefore disproved my statement by way of defeating the straw man. This is scummy in my opinion. Scummy.

I agree with L's original post here, and I do feel that Pro's analysis on this is very awkward. However, I don't really see it as disproving the statement and more of a what could this mean analysis. I can see where L has a scummy view on this, and but I don't think of it as strongly as he does.

@Misder: After reading your post, and evaluating MuffinMan's post - I can't get a read on him at all. Like, nada. What are you reading differently from me? What makes you think he is innocent?

As people in my last game said, Mafia tend to be the ones who can't get reads (Real or false).

This is very true. But he's building on his straw man. This statement is not applicable to all stages of the game.

I'll be moving on to analysing cjdrum soon enough.

Post 67: Agrees with Misder on his analysis. Throws in some feel-good by saying he's getting a town read on Misder.
Post 73-74: Gives opinion on how the IC should word things. Sure, I was put off by the IC's actions too, but re-reading this puts it in a different light. Are there hidden rules I don't know of? Having someone at L-2 on page 3 is not supposed to happen? Aren't we supposed to scumhunt, and vote, accordingly? Why so cautious about doing thigns a certain way? Would page 4 have been better? Not following that logic. Scummy.

I agree with Pro's 73 post that crazy does a better job at "being the IC" than Romanus. I don't think L disagrees with me on this, but she questions Pro's comment on the L-2 vote. In reality, I don't really care about the L-2 vote in general, but I also don't really find a problem with anyone taking notice of how early a L-2 vote is- meaning, I don't find this as scummy, but more null.

Dang fool twisting my words. Did not tell the IC how to word things. L-2 is never really good so early. Did not say it's against any rules. Yes scumhunt. Yes vote. No speedlynch.

Here, I find it odd that he doesn't answer every single post, which do me is a bit weird, cause why leave holes in your defense? Also, one thing to notice is that he never actually says why L-2 is never really good. And that L-2 doesn't equal speedlynch, so I don't understand why this is in Pro's defense.

Post 78: Analysis on Misder. Where is the promised analysis on cjdrum? A lot of WIFOM in the post, and framing me to be scum along with Misder.

Was saying it was possible. Not certain.

I already posted my analysis on this post but I will comment on this again. I can see why he comes up with a possibility that L and I are scumbuddies, so I don't get a scum read there. One thing that bothers me when I reread this again is that he doesn't like me attacking the IC, yet he kinda does it himself earlier and definitely later. And he labels this as scum. Interestingly, L didn't point this out in her analysis.

Post 79: FoS on me and Misder, following previous post. Explains his hesitancy to vote. Town would vote, since that is their only tool. He's not using his tool. Scummy.

You know what FoS is right? It's like a quarter vote, when I'm not sure I use it.

I feel that Pro's 79 and his hesitancy makes sense. I find this null still.

Post 81: Promises to analyze Romanus next. Points out his suspicion of Romanus.

I'll bring this up again. I got the opposite read from Pro on Romanus. In addition, earlier, he put that attacking the IC is scummy. This post contradicts that statement. And both of these points will add up to a scummy point.

Post 84: Romanus analysis. Finds Romanus scummy. The things he finds scummy about Romanus are the fact that Romanus votes and presents evidence that even he finds valid. Here I see him being super cautious yet again! Only scum want bandwagons? Only scum want speed lynches? It's as if he read a book on mafia and is attaching those rules out of context. Scummy because he points out evidence and then contradicts himself with "Although I agree with him" sentiments.

I are suspicious, and of course I'm going to be careful after my last game.

Post 85:

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

Speed lynches are BAD for town. With 7 town 2 mafia alive, a speed lynch will probably cause it to be 5 town 2 mafia.

Erm. Why wouldn't it be 6 town 1 mafia by day two?? Do you know something we don't?

Herp Derp genius. Mafia don't speedlynch each other.

Post 88: More pressure on Romanus. He's focused. Town attribute, imo.
Post 91: More pressure on Romanus. He's focused. Prophesies Romanus' lynch? Scummy.

Like Romanus didn't predict cjdrum's lynch.

On 91, I don't see that as scummy whatsoever. However, I don't like Pro's answer to L because it's not really an answer.

Post 97/99: Mocks/teases Romanus for changing his tune. I suspect Romanus for this change as well. Town read.
Post 106:

The evidence grows. Romanus, you better start acting like town.

This really tastes bad when you eat it. "You better start acting like town?" All this says to me is that Pro is acting as well.
Although cjdrum does seem to be bandwagoning a lot. Maybe they're scum? Or possibly just a newbie not know who to vote for.

]Post 107-108:

Although cjdrum does seem to be bandwagoning a lot. Maybe they're scum? Or possibly just a newbie not know who to vote for.

Where is the analysis on cjdrum? Unvotes to avoid hammer on Romanus, asks Romanus to claim. Romanus' subsequent replies are scummish. Townie read on Pro?
Post 111:

I don't care. He acts like scum, he gets lynched like scum.

It's as if he is taunting Romanus.
Post 113-115: In response to Crazy's analysis on Pro, he plays his newb card "I'm learning". He also denies saying that Romanus was not scumhunting, which was a lie. He accused him of it and voted him for it. Plays newb card again.

Was not a lie. I said he was scumhunting if anything.

Post 116:

McGriddle should really post.

Deflection? Don't like being looked at? Scummy.

I'm sorry. Wut?

I can see where L gets her deflection analysis from. However, I don't really think that saying someone should post is deflection, esp. if it was only one post. So I don't see this as scummy.

Post 120:

Can everyone post who they think is most suspicious and why?

For me, I'd still say Romanus is most suspicious, for the whole speed lynch thing, then changing his mind. But he seems to be acting more like an IC now, so that's good, I will be rethinking my vote.

Asks for everyone else's opinion on who is scummy. Says he thinks Romanus is still the most suspicious, but praises him for being like an IC and says he's rethinking his vote on Romanus... when he's already unvoted. Wishy washy scummy.

Lol nice memory bro. Go over your analysis again.

Here, when I reread I get something different from what I had earlier. The thing that struck me was that in post 120, its implied that Pro was voting Romanus because he wasn't being a good IC, which I feel is different from the reason why he voted for Romanus in the beginning: going for a speedlynch. I'll say scummy on this post too.

Post 125: Explains his vote removal to crazy, saying he didn't want Romanus hammered.

Cjdrum then pretty much begs for his life, and says how he doesn't want to be killed. Prosaurus gets really scummy here in response.

Yet.

Post 129-132:

Here's what I learnt: If you try to survive, you won't.
You'll be accused of being scum.

There will be other games for you to learn. Read my last game, see what happened to me.

I don't want it to happen to any other townie.

He says this as if he already KNOWS cjdrum is innocent. I don't want it to happen to any other townie?!

When I reread with this comment in mind, I do see L's concern, and I agree.

Well I don't.

Post 145: Explanation of his different playstyle than when he was town in a previous game.

@Misder Yes I am playing differently. I'm trying to avoid what I did last time that got me lynched.

@Wing That was just dumb.

I still dunno about cjdrum. Seems more newb than anything, we'll have to let him defend himself.

@cjdrum Read my last game. It's happening to you now.

Again, likens cjdrum's position to his own past game when he was innocent. SCUMMY!

How?

Post 150-151:

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

What other roles for town are there, except for town and power role? The other two questions seem like RQS questions - aka fluff.

Fluff how? I had reasons. 1)Letting him defend himself 2)Confirming. READ. 3)Wanted to know how newb they were.

This post and his posts above kind of contridict each other if I have L's analysis in mind. Earlier, it seems like Pro is referring to cjdrum as town, yet in this post, he says that hes going to hammer him. I find this scummy

[/color]

Post 153:

@L I really hate having an IC. They're meant to help newbies learn to play and answer questions, but if they play themselves it isn't too fair. But if they don't play, they'll be lynched and we wouldn't have anyone to answer our questions. And there's also a problem if they're scum.

WIFOM for days. So if the IC plays the game, they'll be lynched, regardless of whether they are scummy or townish? And if they are scummy they will kill all of us easily? Is that why you hate having IC's play?

And why, exactly, is it unfair for IC's to play in newbie games

?? Is it because you will get caught?

Lynched if scummy, NKed if town. I say ICs are much too experienced, and new people don't want the IC lynched much, so if IC is scum they have a better chance at winning.

Well, seeing as you think that Romanus is not being a good IC, then it should show you that ICs aren't an advantage or a disadvantage. He or she is just a regular person.

[urlhttp://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p ... 3#p2909933]Post 156-160[/url]: dictionary stuff.
[urlhttp://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p ... 1#p2909971]Post 161[/url]: Asks me what my thoughts are on cjdrum. Up until this point, he has not shown too much interest in cjdrum except to "console" him. I respond by quoting myself and ask why people [Prosaurus] don't read thoroughly.

Console meaning...?

Post 164-165:

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

As you can see here, I am prepared to hammer him. Do you think it would be a good idea yet?

And no, you aren't. I just missed that post.

So he moves from uninterested to "about to hammer". Strange leap. Scummy!

Well they got scummier and scummier, thought if they and Romanus were scum, they'd be better to lynch first.

Well, forgot it.

Answers my question, says he "missed that post", oops, "forgot it".
Post 172: Hammers cjdrum, and then consoles him again. Evil.

I've been vote flipping, bandwagonning and just not thinking in general. I haven't been pushing a quick lynch on purpose, but that's what's come across.

I was following the IC because they're meant to be kind of helpful with what is good Town behavior - even if they're scum, they've probably played as scum enough to know what good Town behavior is. So with Romanus flipping and stuff, I mindlessly followed...

So why I was scummy - mindlessly following vote flipping and bandwagonning on that.
Why I did it - Didn't think. Romanus was talking about putting pressure on Misder, so I was helping with pressure. He changed (for "pressure" again), and I thought I was helping with pressure again.

And, can you explain that last comment? Are you saying that I can't trust probability, or that two ICs in a row is unlikely?

TBH, this sounds very WIFOM-y to me.
I wanted to know your experience so I could tell if you really are newb or not. While I would vote for Romanus, having an IC can be useful even if they are scum. We'll see how it turns out on Day 2.
VOTE: cjdrum
Sorry, just remember. If you are town, you can still win even if you die. And there will be other games.

Post 194-195:

Ugh. So cjdrum is town?
I really do hate getting newb tells and scum tells mixed up. cjdrum, since you're actually confirmed town, it means you can say anything you want and we'll believe it. Just keep in mind, what you say now can affect the whole game.

Also @Misder, Just put in a link to the post you're quoting, or at least say

Post 45324432

. That isn't a real post by the way.

It hasn't been confirmed yet??

Who would lie during twilight? Even if I did think they could be lying. D:

It's a heck of alot of pressure doing a hammer vote. After I saw the post that looked so WIFOMy I figured a hammer would have a 50% chance to be right. And cjdrum saying we should hammer him really put me off.

Post 205:

Hmmmm. Misder, you seem a bit too trusting of most people, almost as if you know we're town. I'm beginning to see what L saw, but I must admit you are in fact scumhunting and doing your best. You shouldn't think of anyone as town till they're dead. You should really be thinking how scummy they are, and voting for the scummiest.

What you're seeing and what I saw are two completely different things, at two different stages of the game. My observation was dependent on it being early in the game. Your seeing of the similar matter is happening after the first lynch. Two completely different things. I view this statement as him leading his suspicions in Misder's way, when he never even thought of Misder Day 1.
Post 216:

@ crazy

They should kill the IC because the IC is the one who helps newbs most, and this is a Newbie Game.

@Muffin IC answers questions, scum or not.
cjdrum claimed town after twilight. No point lying then is there? They might have had their own analysis on someone.
I don't know how smart Romanus is. All I know is scum (Who I say is Romanus and someone else) chose McGriddle as their NK. I have no reason why they would.

WIFOM statement about who the mafia should kill. Claims are /= to a mod's declaration.

Why would scum wonder why scum killed who they did?

Prosaurus should have a wine named after him, he does it so often.

Dang fool. Seem to be pushing towards me a bit much.[/quote]

At the end of this, I do get some scummy feelings on Pro. However, I do not feel comfortable hammering him because I get some town reads too, ie putting in analysis in his second game, learning from last game (or at least it feels like it to me).

@Romanus lynch- sigh. I feel like he is being lazy in his analysis. However, he does have a clear view on who he thinks is scummy etc. which I find a town quality.

@Romanus Do you find Pro scummy? Also, who you think is most scummy?

@crazy Can you explain who you think is most scummiest and who you think is helping the town the most? Also, I feel like you should start probing a lot more. I don't feel like you have a clear cut view on anyone, and you aren't looking to get that sort of view.

Edit before posting: Oh wow. lol. The time it took for me to write this (I don't do it all at once, and I probably should have refreshed more often, but I didn't), all of that happened.

[Misder]

If we have a cop, would they mind investigating me?

1. We might not have a cop.
2. You're asking a cop to claim just to save yourself.
3. If there's a roleblocker, and the cop claims, the cop will automatically be roleblocked.
4. Rolefishing

Cop should only claim if there's a definite way to win, they've found guilty (and the guilty person isn't going to be lynched), or if an innocent person is being lynched. For the second one, it's better to stay unknown if the person you got a guilty on is already on his way to being lynched.

Just gonna put this out there even though its a bit late: I don't feel that Pro wanted cop to claim in thread. Just to do it at night. So personally, I think that Wing should have definitely waited on the lynch to see if Pro clarifies what he means.

[Misder]

Wow. I did not expect a mass roleclaim, nor do I agree with it. However, since it already started, and after rethinking out the possibilities, I do see some benefits of a mass roleclaim, though I do not believe it outweighs the negative effects. I will not state why just like zorblag said, better to see how scum reacts instead of tell them the right way to play.

@Wing, just letting you know that Romanus was replaced by Zorblag.

@Zorblag, why do you think that Wing was the most scummy? Also, I would like you to popcorn to crazy after you are done claiming.

Edit before posting: Not doc.

[Misder]

Vanilla Townie. Popcorn: [L]

[Misder]

@crazy Technically, I'm not confirmed. There still is the chance that scum did not send in a hit. However, I will give you that it is highly unlikely.

[Misder]

@Zorblag at crazy I've read that game before this game started and I reread the game again- I think the games are so different- in the game that you link, he has been attacked while in this game the only pressure he's gotten is with me and Wing saying that he's scum admittedly without evidence. Also, if you look at that game, I would say that crazy's attack on h3llo shows that he will still be aggressive and its not only responses- I do also see similarities to the responding part of his scumplay- he only attacks ppl that already in question eg cjdrum/prosaurus- his analysis this game has been lackluster to say the least or more of an, I expected more for you type thing. I really don't see him stepping it up this game, but if you would like to point out something that I may have missed, I'd gladly take that into account.

So I was thinking whether or not we should no lynch today and here are my thoughts: so either way, its going to be mylo or lylo for however long this game goes, so if we lynch town ever, we lose. However, I'm thinking in terms of how easy it is for mafia to bandwagon in a 3v2 situation, so having a 4v2 situation might be better to lynch someone, esp, because we will get no info tomorrow night as mafia will kill wing. Or, we can discuss today who we lynch, and then tomorrow, no question asked, we lynch whoever we decide thereby avoiding the weakness of 3v2 but still have a tiny bit of confirmation after night 3.

edit before posting: so I didn't read any of the zorblag vs MuffinMan stuff above this post yet, and since I'm about to fall asleep, I'll see if my commentary is needed on that tomorrow.

[Misder]

To clarify my post, Muffinman has it right when I didn't believe that what crazy did was truly scumhunting. I feel that he could have provided much more if he was thinking about who could be mafia. I never really did justify that crazy didn't scumhunt. It was just that reading the previous game, I feel similarities. ie. in previous game, fakescumhunting h3llo. I also find it a bit weird that crazy has contributed to both town lynch- however, this does not mean too much in of itself- but I don't feel that crazy was actually strongly wanting those lynches, and were more of a "other people are doing it, I should too." That's how I feel about it at least.
I also do realize it looks like im kinda tunneling on crazy, but I am still reading through everyone's posts.
I'm still waiting on L's analysis.
Also, everyone should keep in mind interactions between people when scumhunting.

[Misder]

The only problem with a Wing vote is that how the crap could mafia predict that there would be no doctor? That's a huge gamble and that Wing claimed first, the most risky of the claims. Also, he said that he protected me, which makes sense to me. However, a Wing+Zorblag could be a team. It would be Wing taking the gamble. Since they have two mafia, Wing can sacrifice. And it could look like Zorblag initiated the mass roleclaim meaning maybe look like town. Also, Wing is not looking like the Wing I saw in his previous game ie tunneling and freaking attacking/really going at one person. He also changes his opinion a lot recently.

@Zorblag, can you analyze the people you think is most likely mafia?

[Misder]

Yeah, sorry about that. Hopefully I can plow through this and homework and not kill myself.

L, that's a hard question cause I was going to reevaluate after answers to my requests. I'm still fine with either a Zorblag or a crazy vote. But to actually answer your question, I would vote for crazy just because Zorblag already has a vote, and and L-2 is very dangerous.

@Wing, why do you change your tells frequently day 3?

[Misder]

I did not receive a message that Wing protected me. However, I looked at the wiki, and it didn't say whether I would get a PM or not.

[Misder]

@Thor Nobody needed to tell me to post my opinions :/ that was the wall that you wont read. Also, I never really justified why it would be crazy+romanus if cjdrum is innocent. As stated, that was guts. Basically, Day 1, there seems to a slight connection between them. crazy took some pressure off of Romanus, and never actually give an opinion on Romanus, and vice versa. Along with my feeling that crazy is playing similarly to his previous game and that I didn't get a strong scum read on anyone else means that my intuition is that mafia is crazy+romanus.

@Wing, you still haven't answered my question. Why did you switch your views so suddenly Day 3?

[Misder]

VCA- Vote Count Analysis

And yes, I'm alive irl still...
This is what I see:
Thor vs Muffin, highly likely that they are not both mafia
Thor- leaning towards town, also because I felt town from Zorblag too; i find constant hunting in his posts
crazy- still my top suspect; still going with similar playstyle as his previous game, his scumhunting feels fake, recently been really defensive without probing at all
L- looks town to me, based on his constant probing, and looking for possibilities in all cases, which scum is unlikely to do since they know what actually happened; one thing to note is that early day 3, he could have been copfishing; also

@Thor: why or what is giving you scummy reads on me? I'd like to handle each.

is interesting, just because I do that as mafia, and it seems similar in tone
muffin- very aggressive; i feel consistent with day 1; town in my eyes
wing- sigh, only doc claim. i get a bit of scum feeling off of him though from day 3- not aggressive as he usually is

Here's something to consider- Wing + someone (most likely crazy) as scum
Wing seemed eager to mass roleclaim. If scum had planned a no kill night 3, then a fake doc claim would be awesome; even if there was a real doc, then doc would be cced; we cant do anything about it because it is mylo; 50% hitting scum- and even if we do hit scum, there is still one left and it would still stay mylo (other 50% is ofc a loss for town)
I thought about this before, but I didn't really see Wing as scummy until day 3, and no one else seems to be scummy

I would vote for crazypianist- but that would put him at L-2, and I'm not confident that I will be active enough to unvote him if I feel that actual scum (assuming crazy not scum) bandwagon fast and we lose

[Misder]

I just read Thor's play when he was mafia, and he seems to play exactly if he was town, or at least the tone. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 52&start=0. So what I thought was town play by Thor really could be scum play :/
Now, he does bring up VCA, which no one did mention, and I think it's good that he brought it up meaning townplay probably. What strikes me is that if he was scum, would he bring evidence that could hurt him?

Final Vote Count of Day One:

cjdrum

- 5 (

McGriddle

,

Romanus

, crazypianist1116,

WingDamage9001

,

Prosaurus

) [this was lynch]

Romanus

- 3 (zMuffinMan,

cjdrum

,

Misder

)

Misder

- 1 ([L])

Here's the hammer day 1. Wingy fled the Romanus wagon and Misder crawled onto Romanus. L is functionally abstaining from voting, crazy is a high suspect because the chances of the wagon Day 1 having zero scum on it? Almost never happens. This is, at its heart and core, the crazy case (see how I did that in one sentence without having to try to justify how every post he's ever made is scummy? Exciting.

So basically, using his logic, if crazy/ant can convince us that he is town, then the flip occurs and Romanus/Thor would be looked at as scum. This kind of evidence I would find hard to believe that scum would bring up.
Also, rethinking Day 1 with this mindset of analysis based on voting, makes me think that L is scummier than I thought. Previously, I thought that L's excuse for voting to lynch was legitimate- basically, she said that she did it because of guts. However, if I look at it in a different angle, L could just not want to take a stance in the position, and it is just an excuse.
However, Day 2 is completely different. We get L starting the lynch on Prosaurus, being as aggressive as possible. If she was scum, she wanted an excuse day 1, but then puts herself out there day 2? That seems odd to me.

@L What do you think about Thor?
@Ant What did you think about my play Day 1?
@Thor Do you feel that there is a difference in your town play and your scum play?
@Muffin Why do you tunnel the IC so much?
@Wing Who is your strongest suspect and why?

[Misder]

Alright, its L-1.

I'm ready to hammer Ant. I feel that crazy was scummy enough already for me to justify voting for him, and Ant really doesn't do a good job portraying a Muffin+L team. Particularly, I don't see the "momentum" that they apparently created.
Before I do, I want to here the opinions of Muffin and Wing on Ant/crazy one more time.

I'm also not discounting the fact that Thor and L could be a team, especially bringing Ant to L-1, maybe hoping for a quicker lynch.

@L You don't think VCA is a legitimate form of analyzing?

Edit before posting: Too late I suppose. What happened to not quicklynching....

[Misder]

Sigh... I was pretty sure of an Ant+Muffin team. That's pretty upsetting.
@Thor Why did you put Ant on L-1? Unless your scum too?

[Misder]

D3 was where I felt that Muffin was the most obvious scum. Problem was that crazy just kinda went, and even when pressured, he didn't do much. Ant was fighting an upward battle- though I did get a town feeling from him, I didn't think it could offset my feelings for crazy. Then I thought an Ant+Muffin team would be viable because of maybe Ant is bussing, and Muffin's comment about not quicklynching.