Newbie 1082: No Country for Old Mafia - Game Over!

[Prosaurus]

Confirm! 7/9 starts the game, no?

[Prosaurus]

'K then.

[Prosaurus]

@Romanus Don't OMGUS, that pretty much got me killed me on my last game.

Experience: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=16842 and one or two of the card version at school.
Why's this fun?: I dunno. I just find it fun.

VOTE: WingDamage9001 because it's over 9000!

[Prosaurus]

Also, can I ask what kind of time zones you guys are in?
And how long you guys will be on each day?

Well I'm in New Zealand, and I can come on for about 4 hours a day starting from about 4pm here to 8pm.

[Prosaurus]

And as for the avatar, I was waiting on getting on a new one, people in my last game were complaining that I didn't have one, I just got a random one.

[Prosaurus]

@cjdrum
1. No. No I can't.
2. :C

@Misder No it wasn't.

[Prosaurus]

By the way, sometimes I come on before school. Like now.

[Prosaurus]

@Romanus Don't OMGUS, that pretty much got me killed me on my last game

Coaching a bit here? Romanus is the IC here, I think he/she(?) understands basic gameplay. Why do you direct him/her(?)?

Yea I know. Just saying that they OMGUS'd, which isn't normally a good thing to do.

[Prosaurus]

2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

My answer to one is in my wiki which should be linked on the left hand side. As for two, I really enjoy the game because it's a great battle of wits and logical deduction when you're town, and when you're mafia, it's a great game of deception

I suppose your answer is the closest I could get. I haven't exactly played many games, and so far I've only been town.

[Prosaurus]

Analysing: [L]

Vote: WingDamage

, cos his wings had to have gotten damaged from violent activity.

Casual RVS stuff. But I thought you thought that they were called 'WingDamaged'?

I don't like bad people. Why do you like the evil one?

Don't see what you mean here.

@WingDamage: hehe, I see that now that I'm on a larger screen. I misread your name as "WingDamaged" on my iPod. So whose wings will you be damaging tonight? >__>

@Crazy:
1. I've been playing real life mafia for about 10 years with a solid group of friends, with intermittent change-ups. I've played a couple games here on mafiascum, but I was seriously intimidated.
2. I enjoy playing mafia because I love reading people and using my intuition. The latter oftentimes is not accepted among the males... but I am usually pretty accurate. Playing online affords me the chance to read over discussions many times, to get a better feel for people. I'm a horrible liar. I always get caught as mafia. As such, I much prefer to play as an innocent....usually not even as a power role.

~tldr: I like reading people.

You seem to like town... Always a good thing. If you're such a horrible liar though, I'll be watching for any lies, I'm sure the others will be too.

I just set up my wiki!

[http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=L]

No comment

@cjdrum: hehehe, Usually on day 1 or day 2... I have a bad record. Once I made it to the end as Mafia by not saying anything and looking distracted the entire game... Everyone didn't expect that xD

I'd say my best strength is being a prosecutor.

Speaking of which, why are some of your questions to these players pointed, while others are fluffy (for lack of a better word)? 

...

*

@Misder: On two occasions, you have stated your surety of my innocence. I don't trust you; just being upfront. It seems as though you are trying to be my buddy, hoping that I will extend the courtesy of dropping suspicion of you. :/
Why exactly have you pegged me as an innocent?

@Prosaurus: I am in the Eastern time zone (GMT -5). My activity will be sporadic and not limited to certain times of the day. But I will at least post everyday.  Could you expound the game mechanics that make Mafia "fun" for you?

@cjdrum: Regarding "fresh new reason"...

Unvote: WingDamage

This vote was random.

Vote: Misder

Because I am following a hunch; I do not like how he can decide so early in the game that I am innocent.

@McGriddle: Could you share more about how this "winning" occurs?

@MuffinMan: After reading your friend's games, what is one thing you learned? What appeals to you to make this game interesting?

@Romanus: What game mechanics in Mafia appeal to your personality? What are the "itty bitty things" that spurred your vote? Please expand.

@WingDamage: Expound on what is "fun" about mafia by sharing your favorite game mechanic.

@All: Banzaii!! Feed meh

*

So why have you pinned them as scummy? Redirecting attention, or being honest?
As for your hunch, I see your reasoning (Mafia know who's town and who isn't), but it's still too early to pin these labels on anyone.

"clearing" anyone this early in the game is not possible.

True. But this may be scummy. Mafia don't wish people to be cleared, as it makes those people harder to lynch, meaning a night kill must be used on them, but then people will know that person's reads were honest.

@Misder: After reading your post, and evaluating MuffinMan's post - I can't get a read on him at all. Like, nada. What are you reading differently from me? What makes you think he is innocent?

As people in my last game said, Mafia tend to be the ones who can't get reads (Real or false).


I'll be moving on to analysing cjdrum soon enough.

[Prosaurus]

PS: That was a slightly scummy read.

[Prosaurus]

@Misder I know it's true, but I'm trying to think of it from a different angle to what most town players would.
That post there is already giving me a town read on you.

[Prosaurus]

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

[Prosaurus]

Oh, and that's putting him at L-2 on page 3. Not always the best thing to do.

[Prosaurus]

Analysis on: Misder

Town reads in green

Scum reads in red

Neutral in black

Unvote [L]

Fair enough. The thing here is, if he keeps his vote, people could say he has no valid reason to vote. Watch what happens if he unvotes.

1. Few. 0 on this forum though, so the way I play may be a bit different. Oh, and epicmafia, but that's a completely different game imo.
2. It's all about deception and hunting. And it feels good to nail down mafia or completely messing with town.

@crazy- I got a response from [L] and I'm satisfied. Really, no reason to vote for someone that I feel is less scummy than the rest, even if it is RVS.

Also, this game pace is really slow from what I'm used to... zzzzz

Agreed. This is pretty slow.

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

Getting to know people,

Or finding the biggest threat?

US EDT (UTC/GMT -4 hours) Its 11:27 PM right now. My times will vary a lot I think, mostly at my nighttime I suppose.

Null

@cjdrum
1) not voting yet, waiting for more activity right now
2) as of right now, zMuffinMan. I feel he is most protown right now alongside with [L], but since I already had some sort of relationship with [L] in the RVS stage, zMuffinMan would be the ideal choice.

And

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

So far, I only got one game, and that was from Prosaurus, and I dont know if that was accidental or not.

Odd choice of scumbuddy. Choosing who you think is most town?

@[L] It's the same way you are viewing me. I see you as more protown than others (no where do I mention that I'm positive that you are innocent like you state) the same way you view me as more scummy than others. Simple as that. In my book of notes, you and muffin are the only ones that don't have some sort of slight scum read, esp. since you guys questioned the same things I have in my notes, therefore less scummy. I'll agree that it is very early though, which is why I'm holding back all of my thoughts until later when I actually get more evidence on people.

If you and [L] were scum, this would put us off it. We'd say only one of you was scum.

@Wing, anyone you think is suspicious now that we have pretty much past RVS?

@zMuffinMan Why do you find it demeaning that Romanus is trying to be the IC?

@Romanus, what is your role as the IC and how are you going to accomplish this?

@McGriddle, how did you choose cjdrum as your random vote? Also, why do you like townside better than scumside?

Random fluff to start discussion

@[L] Admittedly, he only has two posts and his second one I got a null read also. However, I like his first post only because of his attack on Romanus. These are my notes for him:
31

Hi

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. Pretty much none. A friend told me about this game and said it'd be the kind of thing I'd like. He linked me here and I've read a few games he's played in, if that counts for experience at all...
2. Well, it looks like I'd find it enjoyable.

Vote: Romanus

I don't see why you needed to tell us that your vote wasn't serious.

A legit vote cause I was thinking the same thing/or should have been even more, slight town read

@Romanus

You're giving us zero credit if you really think we need to be spoon-fed that badly. Being new doesn't mean we're stupid.

On the topic of making things clear, could you explain the irony in your reasoning for voting me? Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

Agree with Muffin on second paragraph, read is null on this post, but makes more sense if it was town; if Romanus maf, Muffin town imo
38

Australian EST (+10 GMT, +1 for DST), it's 2:22pm now.

I get on when I can, time varies a lot because my current sleeping pattern. I'll probably be posting somewhere between midday and midnight my time most days.

null read

Again, I'm saying that I didn't get a scummy read on him. Everyone else I get something I don't really like.

Like attacking the IC, do you?

Sorry, three posts. I mislabeled in my notes, as you can see by my missing number on the second quote x.x' Second quote is post 34. Also, just wondering what your last post is about L.

Null

@crazy, its the way she plays and how she says things that I like. Sure, maybe first 2 posts aren't ever going to be definite, but that's why I keep note of things that happen after. And with more posts from her, I still like her play except for maybe a small part, but I will still stand that she has pretty much played town so far.
edit before posting: so it seems like pro is on the opposite side of me on [L] which is fine. I disagree with the analysis on the second to last post- I actually view this as town because it pretty much is true. However, I do agree with analysis on the last post, as it did seem a bit scummy to me also, but I view her posts as overall townplay right now.

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

Making his own analysis on [L]. Good.

Still trying to convince us [L] is town. Scumbuddies,

Or being honest?

@zMuffinMan
1) In this type of setup, yes. Well, this is my first time playing this setup so uhh... read 2 for more I guess.
2) In other forums where games are much bigger and fast-pased (like 30 ppl and days are 48 hours), it usually started out with just a random lynch, however, these random lynches first start out from voting to lynch inactives, but of course this will lead to discussion, and then, that's where moving the game forward is very easy. I'll also add that I usually don't even participate in the voting to lynch the inactives. In this type of setup, RVS is kind of the same function as what I'm used to; it'll eventually lead to discussion. However, even without RVS, discussion about anything will eventually lead to something (kind of like RQS I guess, but I'm talking about anything here). Of course, deadline is a great incentive to vote, so even if at the end, no one is "scummy", then there will still be an attempted lynch that will move the game forward.
Hope my answers aren't too confusing. I feel like I just blabbled.

True, inactives aren't much of a threat to scum, are they?

But you are talking about in other games, so that doesn't really count.

Conclusion:

More scum than town.

[Prosaurus]

FoS:[L] and Misder

But I'm no voting till I have better reads, and I don't want L-1 this early.

[Prosaurus]

Will analyze others soon. Romanus is next, considering I'm getting scum reads from his last post.

[Prosaurus]

Analysis on:

Town reads in green

Scum reads in red

Neutral in black

I got six real posts to go off.

@zMuff - I told you it wasn't serious because this is a newbie game, and most especially early on, I feel it is my job as IC to make sure I'm being very clear about what is going on. But jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so this one is serious:

Unvote

Vote: zMuffinMan

1) I've been playing off and on for 5 years or so. Started with meat world playing and then found this site. I haven't been around here in a while, but I plan on being a fixture for a while now.
2) Oddly enough, one of the reasons I play is because I teach writing in college and MS contains some of the best essays on the internet. But also, I just love games, from tabletop minis to board, card, Wow. Yeah, I'll play just about any game.

Too early to make serious votes. He was voting for the person he had most evidence for, no matter how little that was, as this was RVS.

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone. Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

Scum hunting,

But with a lack of evidence.

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

Grabbing an instrument and jumping on the wagon.

With evidence though.

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

As IC: I have no problem admitting that I did it poorly. I'd also love suggestions as to how to do the "ease in" in a better fashion.

An IC asking how to be an IC?

If you're the one to "ease them into the game" they'll trust you to be town...

Unless you help them scumhunt, while doing it yourself

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

Only scum want bandwagons.

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon. I hate leaving my vote in an innocuous place. Takes away it's teeth and becomes less of a weapon or no weapon at all.

And I support the Misder wagon up until the point I no longer believe he is likely scum.

Only scum want speedlynches.

Conclusion:

Very scummy.

Unvote

VOTE: Romanus

[Prosaurus]

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

Speed lynches are BAD for town. With 7 town 2 mafia alive, a speed lynch will probably cause it to be 5 town 2 mafia.

[Prosaurus]

@Wing
Care to say why you're voting, apart from trying to pressure him?

[Prosaurus]

@Romanus Acting confident, are we? Unless you can convince us you aren't scum (Which will be hard), I see a lynch in your future.

[Prosaurus]

Haha, nice mood change there.

[Prosaurus]

Just before you encouraged us to join the bandwagon and speed lynch. Now you're doing the opposite, after I pointed it out.

You weren't scum hunting. You were encouraging speed lynches before we get any evidence.

[Prosaurus]

The evidence grows. Romanus, you better start acting like town.

[Prosaurus]

Although cjdrum does seem to be bandwagoning a lot. Maybe they're scum? Or possibly just a newbie not know who to vote for.

[Prosaurus]

Unvote

To avoid a hammer before Romanus claims. Romanus, please claim ASAP.

[Prosaurus]

I don't care. He acts like scum, he gets lynched like scum.

[Prosaurus]

I'm going by what I learnt in my previous game. They bandwagoned me, and what happened? They killed the doctor.
I never said he wasn't scum hunting, I said that's what he should be doing.
Like I've said before, I'm trying to think differently. And those last two posts of Romanus' really made me think of him as scummy. Then he changed and started being against bandwagons and speed lynches. Seems suspicious to me.

[Prosaurus]

I would like you to take into account that I've only had one other game, and I was bandwagon-lynched on Day 1. Therefore, I am against bandwagons.

[Prosaurus]

This

Wait, I thought we were pressuring Misder?
Um, so, do I vote now, or let somebody else do that :/

I'll go with it.

Unvote: McGriddle
Vote: Misder

And don't hammer 'til we get some stuff from him!

followed by this

I must say that was kind of weird-looking. I mean, you convince me to vote Misder, then... Jump off so you're not blamed?

I don't like that. I don't have much experience with that sort of thing, but it seems... off.

Unvote
Vote: Romanus

equals this:

FoS: cjdrum

It's called bandwagonning. Blatent bandwagonning.

I would vote but this:

Lost. Why is the IC being difficult? Is difficulty all of a sudden a good playstyle? :/

Lost.

Makes me think it's more of a newb tell.

That's the problem with newbie games. It can be hard to tell.

Now for a case on prosaurus.
His two analyses on Misder and Romanus were just way off.

I'm learning, I'm learning. Doing my best.

Analysis on: Misder

Town reads in green

Scum reads in red

Neutral in black

Unvote [L]

Fair enough. The thing here is, if he keeps his vote, people could say he has no valid reason to vote. Watch what happens if he unvotes.

That's what RVS is. You could have criticized anyone else on the first page for randomly voting. They all had no reason to vote, but you don't unvote in RVS because it gets you to interesting situations where people start slipping up.

@cjdrum
1) not voting yet, waiting for more activity right now
2) as of right now, zMuffinMan. I feel he is most protown right now alongside with [L], but since I already had some sort of relationship with [L] in the RVS stage, zMuffinMan would be the ideal choice.

And

Cause I have time, can everyone link one game (from this site or another) that they have played in? It's ok if you don't have a game to link, cause I don't. The forum I played in needed permission to get in...

So far, I only got one game, and that was from Prosaurus, and I dont know if that was accidental or not.

Odd choice of scumbuddy. Choosing who you think is most town?

Um, scum would obviously want the most pro-town players on their team, ne?

I suppose. But if they were scum, they might not act so protown. That was fluff anyway.

@[L] It's the same way you are viewing me. I see you as more protown than others (no where do I mention that I'm positive that you are innocent like you state) the same way you view me as more scummy than others. Simple as that. In my book of notes, you and muffin are the only ones that don't have some sort of slight scum read, esp. since you guys questioned the same things I have in my notes, therefore less scummy. I'll agree that it is very early though, which is why I'm holding back all of my thoughts until later when I actually get more evidence on people.

If you and [L] were scum, this would put us off it. We'd say only one of you was scum.

This is very WIFOM-y.

Trying to think differently again. Maybe I shouldn't?

@[L] Admittedly, he only has two posts and his second one I got a null read also. However, I like his first post only because of his attack on Romanus. These are my notes for him:
31

Hi

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. Pretty much none. A friend told me about this game and said it'd be the kind of thing I'd like. He linked me here and I've read a few games he's played in, if that counts for experience at all...
2. Well, it looks like I'd find it enjoyable.

Vote: Romanus

I don't see why you needed to tell us that your vote wasn't serious.

A legit vote cause I was thinking the same thing/or should have been even more, slight town read

@Romanus

You're giving us zero credit if you really think we need to be spoon-fed that badly. Being new doesn't mean we're stupid.

On the topic of making things clear, could you explain the irony in your reasoning for voting me? Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

Agree with Muffin on second paragraph, read is null on this post, but makes more sense if it was town; if Romanus maf, Muffin town imo
38

Australian EST (+10 GMT, +1 for DST), it's 2:22pm now.

I get on when I can, time varies a lot because my current sleeping pattern. I'll probably be posting somewhere between midday and midnight my time most days.

null read

Again, I'm saying that I didn't get a scummy read on him. Everyone else I get something I don't really like.

Like attacking the IC, do you?

Like not pointing out at all what's scummy or why the IC shouldn't be attacked, do you?

I was thinking, wouldn't scum like to get rid of the IC? Sometimes I think having an IC can ruin newbie games...

@crazy, its the way she plays and how she says things that I like. Sure, maybe first 2 posts aren't ever going to be definite, but that's why I keep note of things that happen after. And with more posts from her, I still like her play except for maybe a small part, but I will still stand that she has pretty much played town so far.
edit before posting: so it seems like pro is on the opposite side of me on [L] which is fine. I disagree with the analysis on the second to last post- I actually view this as town because it pretty much is true. However, I do agree with analysis on the last post, as it did seem a bit scummy to me also, but I view her posts as overall townplay right now.

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

Making his own analysis on [L]. Good.

Still trying to convince us [L] is town. Scumbuddies,

Or being honest?

Trying to put words into people's mouths much? Regarding the quote in question:

What do ya mean? It's WIFOMy.

"clearing" anyone this early in the game is not possible.

True. But this may be scummy. Mafia don't wish people to be cleared, as it makes those people harder to lynch, meaning a night kill must be used on them, but then people will know that person's reads were honest.

[L] was contradicting cjdrum, who was calling [L] "cleared" town. [L] replied by saying that clearing anyone is not possible. Thinking anyone is "cleared" can lead to tunneling as well as ignoring the "cleared" person. Which can be really bad if the "cleared" person is scum. [L]'s quote was town.

Again, thinking differently.

@zMuffinMan
1) In this type of setup, yes. Well, this is my first time playing this setup so uhh... read 2 for more I guess.
2) In other forums where games are much bigger and fast-pased (like 30 ppl and days are 48 hours), it usually started out with just a random lynch, however, these random lynches first start out from voting to lynch inactives, but of course this will lead to discussion, and then, that's where moving the game forward is very easy. I'll also add that I usually don't even participate in the voting to lynch the inactives. In this type of setup, RVS is kind of the same function as what I'm used to; it'll eventually lead to discussion. However, even without RVS, discussion about anything will eventually lead to something (kind of like RQS I guess, but I'm talking about anything here). Of course, deadline is a great incentive to vote, so even if at the end, no one is "scummy", then there will still be an attempted lynch that will move the game forward.
Hope my answers aren't too confusing. I feel like I just blabbled.

True, inactives aren't much of a threat to scum, are they?

But you are talking about in other games, so that doesn't really count.

There's a reason there's a phrase called Lynch all Lurkers. Not that I subscribe to it, but active lurking can be very scummy. You still have the power to vote and do night actions, but you aren't contributing to discussion at all. Lurking or flaking on the other hand is more of a null tell.

Eh. Still learning.

@zMuff - I told you it wasn't serious because this is a newbie game, and most especially early on, I feel it is my job as IC to make sure I'm being very clear about what is going on. But jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so this one is serious:

Unvote

Vote: zMuffinMan

1) I've been playing off and on for 5 years or so. Started with meat world playing and then found this site. I haven't been around here in a while, but I plan on being a fixture for a while now.
2) Oddly enough, one of the reasons I play is because I teach writing in college and MS contains some of the best essays on the internet. But also, I just love games, from tabletop minis to board, card, Wow. Yeah, I'll play just about any game.

Too early to make serious votes. He was voting for the person he had most evidence for, no matter how little that was, as this was RVS.

Ha funny. You criticize Romanus for making a serious vote yet it's a response to muffin's serious vote. Romanus saw Muffin's vote as bad. I think that's quite obvious.

In my last game, people were doing serious votes with very little evidence. I supposed that's what people were doing here.

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone.

Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

Scum hunting,

But with a lack of evidence.

Evidence in bold. Regardless, why the second sentence isn't red, I don't know as lack of evidence is a scum tell.

I didn't think it would be that early on.

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

Grabbing an instrument and jumping on the wagon.

With evidence though.

Romanus, if you have yet to, read this article. You can't criticize him for "jumping on the wagon" if you think his reasons are valid.

I know. I try to think of at least one town read and one scum read per quote.

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

As IC: I have no problem admitting that I did it poorly. I'd also love suggestions as to how to do the "ease in" in a better fashion.

An IC asking how to be an IC?

If you're the one to "ease them into the game" they'll trust you to be town...

Unless you help them scumhunt, while doing it yourself

If it hasn't been pointed out already:

Don't trust authority because they are authority.

Your point is valid Prosaurus except Romanus has been scumhunting.

Indeed he has.

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

Only scum want bandwagons.

>_> Bandwagons can be useful. The reactions that someone gives from being under pressure can often reveal them to be scum or town. Also, jumping on a bandwagon for shitty reasons (e.g. cjdrum) is very scummy.

Learning. I don't like bandwagons though.

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon. I hate leaving my vote in an innocuous place. Takes away it's teeth and becomes less of a weapon or no weapon at all.

And I support the Misder wagon up until the point I no longer believe he is likely scum.

Only scum want speedlynches.

Is this not obvious?

Pointing it out.

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Conclusion:

Very scummy.

Unvote

VOTE: Prosaurus

It seems I still have alot to learn. However, my vote stays. I still think Romanus is suspicious.

[Prosaurus]

McGriddle should really post.

[Prosaurus]

Can everyone post who they think is most suspicious and why?

For me, I'd still say Romanus is most suspicious, for the whole speed lynch thing, then changing his mind. But he seems to be acting more like an IC now, so that's good, I will be rethinking my vote.

[Prosaurus]

@crazy I removed my voted because he was at L-1 and I didn't want him to be hammered till he had claimed etc.
Yes, I'm trying hard to scum hunt. I'll read advice and learn.

[Prosaurus]

Here's what I learnt: If you try to survive, you won't.
You'll be accused of being scum.

[Prosaurus]

There will be other games for you to learn. Read my last game, see what happened to me. I don't want it to happen to any other townie.

[Prosaurus]

PS: Reposting the link: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16842

[Prosaurus]

Sorry, It's: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=16842

[Prosaurus]

@Misder Yes I am playing differently. I'm trying to avoid what I did last time that got me lynched.

@Wing That was just dumb.

I still dunno about cjdrum. Seems more newb than anything, we'll have to let him defend himself.

@cjdrum Read my last game. It's happening to you now.

[Prosaurus]

@Wing Why would we lynch them without letting them defend themselves? It's not a scumtell at all.

@[L] Thanks for your input. I suppose I should have waited a bit before doing such analyzing.

[Prosaurus]

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

[Prosaurus]

@L I really hate having an IC. They're meant to help newbies learn to play and answer questions, but if they play themselves it isn't too fair. But if they don't play, they'll be lynched and we wouldn't have anyone to answer our questions. And there's also a problem if they're scum.

[Prosaurus]

Question: What a boon, and what'a a bane? I'm guessing a boon is a good thing? Because that really depends on who your IC is.

[Prosaurus]

Lolz

[Prosaurus]

Yeah I looked it up. But it really does depend on your IC.

[Prosaurus]

So L. What are your thoughts on cjdrum?

[Prosaurus]

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

As you can see here, I am prepared to hammer him. Do you think it would be a good idea yet?

And no, you aren't. I just missed that post.

[Prosaurus]

Well, forgot it.

[Prosaurus]

I've been vote flipping, bandwagonning and just not thinking in general. I haven't been pushing a quick lynch on purpose, but that's what's come across.

I was following the IC because they're meant to be kind of helpful with what is good Town behavior - even if they're scum, they've probably played as scum enough to know what good Town behavior is. So with Romanus flipping and stuff, I mindlessly followed...

So why I was scummy - mindlessly following vote flipping and bandwagonning on that.
Why I did it - Didn't think. Romanus was talking about putting pressure on Misder, so I was helping with pressure. He changed (for "pressure" again), and I thought I was helping with pressure again.

And, can you explain that last comment? Are you saying that I can't trust probability, or that two ICs in a row is unlikely?

TBH, this sounds very WIFOM-y to me.
I wanted to know your experience so I could tell if you really are newb or not. While I would vote for Romanus, having an IC can be useful even if they are scum. We'll see how it turns out on Day 2.
VOTE: cjdrum
Sorry, just remember. If you are town, you can still win even if you die. And there will be other games.

[Prosaurus]

Ugh. So cjdrum is town?
I really do hate getting newb tells and scum tells mixed up. cjdrum, since you're actually confirmed town, it means you can say anything you want and we'll believe it. Just keep in mind, what you say now can affect the whole game.

Also @Misder, Just put in a link to the post you're quoting, or at least say

Post 45324432

. That isn't a real post by the way.

[Prosaurus]

It's a heck of alot of pressure doing a hammer vote. After I saw the post that looked so WIFOMy I figured a hammer would have a 50% chance to be right. And cjdrum saying we should hammer him really put me off.

[Prosaurus]

Sorry about the quadruple posting. I write a post, hit submit, then realize I forgot something or that I made a mistake in the post.

[Prosaurus]

Hmmmm. Misder, you seem a bit too trusting of most people, almost as if you know we're town. I'm beginning to see what L saw, but I must admit you are in fact scumhunting and doing your best. You shouldn't think of anyone as town till they're dead. You should really be thinking how scummy they are, and voting for the scummiest.

[Prosaurus]

VOTE: Romanus
Going by my reasons from Day 1.
Honestly, I understood cjdrum was in fact a newb, but after one game even I learnt how to not be mislynched.
I'm guessing the scum aren't too bright killing the most inactive player. They should have killed the IC. Unless (*GASP*) the IC is scum.

[Prosaurus]

@ crazy They should kill the IC because the IC is the one who helps newbs most, and this is a Newbie Game.

@Muffin IC answers questions, scum or not.
cjdrum claimed town after twilight. No point lying then is there? They might have had their own analysis on someone.
I don't know how smart Romanus is. All I know is scum (Who I say is Romanus and someone else) chose McGriddle as their NK. I have no reason why they would.

[Prosaurus]

@Muffin I did it because they said to, which seems very scummy, and on top of that all the previous evidence against him. I'm voting for Romanus by going off my evidence on Day 1, like I said.

[Prosaurus]

Vote: Prosaurus

I am certain he is scum. Not only has he shown definite knowledge on people's alignment, but he has even used WIFOM and tried to postulate why the mafia killed McGriddle. Everyone knows it is a scum tell to try and guess why the mafia did something, and I see those postulations as trying to confuse the town and make them think harder. He's even played the newb card too many times. I'm certain he's one of them.

PBPA:
Post 11: Seems he's eager to start the game, to me. Unbiased: He's asking when the game starts.
Post 13: Null.
Post 35-37: Tells Romanus not to OMGUS because it got Prosaurus killed in his last game. Asks time zone question. Talks about avatar. Null...
Post 46-47:

@cjdrum
1. No. No I can't.
2. :C

@Misder No it wasn't.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what questions cjdrum asked of him, and what these replies mean. Clarification Prosaurus?

The random fluff questions they posted.

Post 62-65: Makes it a point to point out that "so far I've only been town." Sure, it could be true, but it says nothing for this game. Moves on to analyze me.

Analysing: [L]

Vote: WingDamage

, cos his wings had to have gotten damaged from violent activity.

Casual RVS stuff. But I thought you thought that they were called 'WingDamaged'?

Null.

I don't like bad people. Why do you like the evil one?

Don't see what you mean here.

Null.

@WingDamage: hehe, I see that now that I'm on a larger screen. I misread your name as "WingDamaged" on my iPod. So whose wings will you be damaging tonight? >__>

@Crazy:
1. I've been playing real life mafia for about 10 years with a solid group of friends, with intermittent change-ups. I've played a couple games here on mafiascum, but I was seriously intimidated.
2. I enjoy playing mafia because I love reading people and using my intuition. The latter oftentimes is not accepted among the males... but I am usually pretty accurate. Playing online affords me the chance to read over discussions many times, to get a better feel for people. I'm a horrible liar. I always get caught as mafia. As such, I much prefer to play as an innocent....usually not even as a power role.

~tldr: I like reading people.

You seem to like town... Always a good thing. If you're such a horrible liar though, I'll be watching for any lies, I'm sure the others will be too.

Granted, I was a little put off by this comment but I won't let it color my views. But it seems worded... funny.

I just set up my wiki!

[http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=L]

No comment

Null.

@cjdrum: hehehe, Usually on day 1 or day 2... I have a bad record. Once I made it to the end as Mafia by not saying anything and looking distracted the entire game... Everyone didn't expect that xD

I'd say my best strength is being a prosecutor.

Speaking of which, why are some of your questions to these players pointed, while others are fluffy (for lack of a better word)? 

...

*

@Misder: On two occasions, you have stated your surety of my innocence. I don't trust you; just being upfront. It seems as though you are trying to be my buddy, hoping that I will extend the courtesy of dropping suspicion of you. :/
Why exactly have you pegged me as an innocent?

@Prosaurus: I am in the Eastern time zone (GMT -5). My activity will be sporadic and not limited to certain times of the day. But I will at least post everyday.  Could you expound the game mechanics that make Mafia "fun" for you?

@cjdrum: Regarding "fresh new reason"...

Unvote: WingDamage

This vote was random.

Vote: Misder

Because I am following a hunch; I do not like how he can decide so early in the game that I am innocent.

@McGriddle: Could you share more about how this "winning" occurs?

@MuffinMan: After reading your friend's games, what is one thing you learned? What appeals to you to make this game interesting?

@Romanus: What game mechanics in Mafia appeal to your personality? What are the "itty bitty things" that spurred your vote? Please expand.

@WingDamage: Expound on what is "fun" about mafia by sharing your favorite game mechanic.

@All: Banzaii!! Feed meh

*

So why have you pinned them as scummy? Redirecting attention, or being honest?
As for your hunch, I see your reasoning (Mafia know who's town and who isn't), but it's still too early to pin these labels on anyone.

This question is asked as if pinning people as scummy is not what I am supposed to do. Redirecting attention? Is that what YOU'RE doing?

"clearing" anyone this early in the game is not possible.

True. But this may be scummy. Mafia don't wish people to be cleared, as it makes those people harder to lynch, meaning a night kill must be used on them, but then people will know that person's reads were honest.

I already spoke on this, but I will again for the sake of the PBPA. It is impossible for people to be cleared just coming out of the RVS stage. Later in the game, if someone couldn't be cleared, sure - the Mafia wouldn't like that. But that wasn't relevant. The argument involving Mafia is a straw man fallacy that was not relating to what I was actually talking about, and therefore disproved my statement by way of defeating the straw man. This is scummy in my opinion. Scummy.

@Misder: After reading your post, and evaluating MuffinMan's post - I can't get a read on him at all. Like, nada. What are you reading differently from me? What makes you think he is innocent?

As people in my last game said, Mafia tend to be the ones who can't get reads (Real or false).

This is very true. But he's building on his straw man. This statement is not applicable to all stages of the game.

I'll be moving on to analysing cjdrum soon enough.

Post 67: Agrees with Misder on his analysis. Throws in some feel-good by saying he's getting a town read on Misder.
Post 73-74: Gives opinion on how the IC should word things. Sure, I was put off by the IC's actions too, but re-reading this puts it in a different light. Are there hidden rules I don't know of? Having someone at L-2 on page 3 is not supposed to happen? Aren't we supposed to scumhunt, and vote, accordingly? Why so cautious about doing thigns a certain way? Would page 4 have been better? Not following that logic. Scummy.

Dang fool twisting my words. Did not tell the IC how to word things. L-2 is never really good so early. Did not say it's against any rules. Yes scumhunt. Yes vote. No speedlynch.

Post 78: Analysis on Misder. Where is the promised analysis on cjdrum? A lot of WIFOM in the post, and framing me to be scum along with Misder.

Was saying it was possible. Not certain.

Post 79: FoS on me and Misder, following previous post. Explains his hesitancy to vote. Town would vote, since that is their only tool. He's not using his tool. Scummy.

You know what FoS is right? It's like a quarter vote, when I'm not sure I use it.

Post 81: Promises to analyze Romanus next. Points out his suspicion of Romanus.
Post 84: Romanus analysis. Finds Romanus scummy. The things he finds scummy about Romanus are the fact that Romanus votes and presents evidence that even he finds valid. Here I see him being super cautious yet again! Only scum want bandwagons? Only scum want speed lynches? It's as if he read a book on mafia and is attaching those rules out of context. Scummy because he points out evidence and then contradicts himself with "Although I agree with him" sentiments.

I are suspicious, and of course I'm going to be careful after my last game.

Post 85:

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

Speed lynches are BAD for town. With 7 town 2 mafia alive, a speed lynch will probably cause it to be 5 town 2 mafia.

Erm. Why wouldn't it be 6 town 1 mafia by day two?? Do you know something we don't?

Herp Derp genius. Mafia don't speedlynch each other.

Post 88: More pressure on Romanus. He's focused. Town attribute, imo.
Post 91: More pressure on Romanus. He's focused. Prophesies Romanus' lynch? Scummy.

Like Romanus didn't predict cjdrum's lynch.

Post 97/99: Mocks/teases Romanus for changing his tune. I suspect Romanus for this change as well. Town read.
Post 106:

The evidence grows. Romanus, you better start acting like town.

This really tastes bad when you eat it. "You better start acting like town?" All this says to me is that Pro is acting as well.
Although cjdrum does seem to be bandwagoning a lot. Maybe they're scum? Or possibly just a newbie not know who to vote for.

]Post 107-108:

Although cjdrum does seem to be bandwagoning a lot. Maybe they're scum? Or possibly just a newbie not know who to vote for.

Where is the analysis on cjdrum? Unvotes to avoid hammer on Romanus, asks Romanus to claim. Romanus' subsequent replies are scummish. Townie read on Pro?
Post 111:

I don't care. He acts like scum, he gets lynched like scum.

It's as if he is taunting Romanus.
Post 113-115: In response to Crazy's analysis on Pro, he plays his newb card "I'm learning". He also denies saying that Romanus was not scumhunting, which was a lie. He accused him of it and voted him for it. Plays newb card again.[/quote]
Was not a lie. I said he was scumhunting if anything.

Post 116:

McGriddle should really post.

Deflection? Don't like being looked at? Scummy.

I'm sorry. Wut?

Post 120:

Can everyone post who they think is most suspicious and why?

For me, I'd still say Romanus is most suspicious, for the whole speed lynch thing, then changing his mind. But he seems to be acting more like an IC now, so that's good, I will be rethinking my vote.

Asks for everyone else's opinion on who is scummy. Says he thinks Romanus is still the most suspicious, but praises him for being like an IC and says he's rethinking his vote on Romanus... when he's already unvoted. Wishy washy scummy.

Lol nice memory bro. Go over your analysis again.

Post 125: Explains his vote removal to crazy, saying he didn't want Romanus hammered.

Cjdrum then pretty much begs for his life, and says how he doesn't want to be killed. Prosaurus gets really scummy here in response.

Yet.

Post 129-132:

Here's what I learnt: If you try to survive, you won't.
You'll be accused of being scum.

There will be other games for you to learn. Read my last game, see what happened to me.

I don't want it to happen to any other townie.

He says this as if he already KNOWS cjdrum is innocent. I don't want it to happen to any other townie?!

Well I don't.

Post 145: Explanation of his different playstyle than when he was town in a previous game.

@Misder Yes I am playing differently. I'm trying to avoid what I did last time that got me lynched.

@Wing That was just dumb.

I still dunno about cjdrum. Seems more newb than anything, we'll have to let him defend himself.

@cjdrum Read my last game. It's happening to you now.

Again, likens cjdrum's position to his own past game when he was innocent. SCUMMY!

How?

Post 150-151:

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

What other roles for town are there, except for town and power role? The other two questions seem like RQS questions - aka fluff.

Fluff how? I had reasons. 1)Letting him defend himself 2)Confirming. READ. 3)Wanted to know how newb they were.

Post 153:

@L I really hate having an IC. They're meant to help newbies learn to play and answer questions, but if they play themselves it isn't too fair. But if they don't play, they'll be lynched and we wouldn't have anyone to answer our questions. And there's also a problem if they're scum.

WIFOM for days. So if the IC plays the game, they'll be lynched, regardless of whether they are scummy or townish? And if they are scummy they will kill all of us easily? Is that why you hate having IC's play?

And why, exactly, is it unfair for IC's to play in newbie games

?? Is it because you will get caught?

Lynched if scummy, NKed if town. I say ICs are much too experienced, and new people don't want the IC lynched much, so if IC is scum they have a better chance at winning.

[urlhttp://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p ... 3#p2909933]Post 156-160[/url]: dictionary stuff.
[urlhttp://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p ... 1#p2909971]Post 161[/url]: Asks me what my thoughts are on cjdrum. Up until this point, he has not shown too much interest in cjdrum except to "console" him. I respond by quoting myself and ask why people [Prosaurus] don't read thoroughly.

Console meaning...?

Post 164-165:

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

As you can see here, I am prepared to hammer him. Do you think it would be a good idea yet?

And no, you aren't. I just missed that post.

So he moves from uninterested to "about to hammer". Strange leap. Scummy!

Well they got scummier and scummier, thought if they and Romanus were scum, they'd be better to lynch first.

Well, forgot it.

Answers my question, says he "missed that post", oops, "forgot it".
Post 172: Hammers cjdrum, and then consoles him again. Evil.

I've been vote flipping, bandwagonning and just not thinking in general. I haven't been pushing a quick lynch on purpose, but that's what's come across.

I was following the IC because they're meant to be kind of helpful with what is good Town behavior - even if they're scum, they've probably played as scum enough to know what good Town behavior is. So with Romanus flipping and stuff, I mindlessly followed...

So why I was scummy - mindlessly following vote flipping and bandwagonning on that.
Why I did it - Didn't think. Romanus was talking about putting pressure on Misder, so I was helping with pressure. He changed (for "pressure" again), and I thought I was helping with pressure again.

And, can you explain that last comment? Are you saying that I can't trust probability, or that two ICs in a row is unlikely?

TBH, this sounds very WIFOM-y to me.
I wanted to know your experience so I could tell if you really are newb or not. While I would vote for Romanus, having an IC can be useful even if they are scum. We'll see how it turns out on Day 2.
VOTE: cjdrum
Sorry, just remember. If you are town, you can still win even if you die. And there will be other games.

Post 194-195:

Ugh. So cjdrum is town?
I really do hate getting newb tells and scum tells mixed up. cjdrum, since you're actually confirmed town, it means you can say anything you want and we'll believe it. Just keep in mind, what you say now can affect the whole game.

Also @Misder, Just put in a link to the post you're quoting, or at least say

Post 45324432

. That isn't a real post by the way.

It hasn't been confirmed yet??

Who would lie during twilight? Even if I did think they could be lying. D:

It's a heck of alot of pressure doing a hammer vote. After I saw the post that looked so WIFOMy I figured a hammer would have a 50% chance to be right. And cjdrum saying we should hammer him really put me off.

Post 205:

Hmmmm. Misder, you seem a bit too trusting of most people, almost as if you know we're town. I'm beginning to see what L saw, but I must admit you are in fact scumhunting and doing your best. You shouldn't think of anyone as town till they're dead. You should really be thinking how scummy they are, and voting for the scummiest.

What you're seeing and what I saw are two completely different things, at two different stages of the game. My observation was dependent on it being early in the game. Your seeing of the similar matter is happening after the first lynch. Two completely different things. I view this statement as him leading his suspicions in Misder's way, when he never even thought of Misder Day 1.
Post 216:

@ crazy

They should kill the IC because the IC is the one who helps newbs most, and this is a Newbie Game.

@Muffin IC answers questions, scum or not.
cjdrum claimed town after twilight. No point lying then is there? They might have had their own analysis on someone.
I don't know how smart Romanus is. All I know is scum (Who I say is Romanus and someone else) chose McGriddle as their NK. I have no reason why they would.

WIFOM statement about who the mafia should kill. Claims are /= to a mod's declaration.

Why would scum wonder why scum killed who they did?

Prosaurus should have a wine named after him, he does it so often.

Dang fool. Seem to be pushing towards me a bit much.

[Prosaurus]

Please, don't overuse the term WIFOM. Almost anything said can be a WIFOM.







...I bet you'll think this is too, no?

[Prosaurus]

Analysis on: Romanus

Town reads in green

Scum reads in red

Neutral in black

I got six real posts to go off.

@zMuff - I told you it wasn't serious because this is a newbie game, and most especially early on, I feel it is my job as IC to make sure I'm being very clear about what is going on. But jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so this one is serious:

Unvote

Vote: zMuffinMan

1) I've been playing off and on for 5 years or so. Started with meat world playing and then found this site. I haven't been around here in a while, but I plan on being a fixture for a while now.
2) Oddly enough, one of the reasons I play is because I teach writing in college and MS contains some of the best essays on the internet. But also, I just love games, from tabletop minis to board, card, Wow. Yeah, I'll play just about any game.

Too early to make serious votes. He was voting for the person he had most evidence for, no matter how little that was, as this was RVS.

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone. Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

Scum hunting,

But with a lack of evidence.

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

Grabbing an instrument and jumping on the wagon.

With evidence though.

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

As IC: I have no problem admitting that I did it poorly. I'd also love suggestions as to how to do the "ease in" in a better fashion.

An IC asking how to be an IC?

If you're the one to "ease them into the game" they'll trust you to be town...

Unless you help them scumhunt, while doing it yourself

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

Only scum want bandwagons.

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon. I hate leaving my vote in an innocuous place. Takes away it's teeth and becomes less of a weapon or no weapon at all.

And I support the Misder wagon up until the point I no longer believe he is likely scum.

Only scum want speedlynches.

Conclusion:

Very scummy.

Unvote

VOTE: Romanus

Then followed by his mood change, and now a lack of posts I believe. Main points in bold.

[Prosaurus]

Oh, and I was going to do cjdrum analysis because they were next on the 'Display posts by user:' list, but I decided to do Misder because he was being accused, then Romanus because I thought he was being scummy.

[Prosaurus]

@Romanus As long as you aren't lurking.
If we have a cop, would they mind investigating me?

[Prosaurus]

Back after school and stuff.

[Prosaurus]

If we have a cop, would they mind investigating me?

1. We might not have a cop.
2. You're asking a cop to claim just to save yourself.
3. If there's a roleblocker, and the cop claims, the cop will automatically be roleblocked.
4. Rolefishing

Cop should only claim if there's a definite way to win, they've found guilty (and the guilty person isn't going to be lynched), or if an innocent person is being lynched. For the second one, it's better to stay unknown if the person you got a guilty on is already on his way to being lynched.

I meant on Night 2. As in, it'd be Day 3 afterwards. As in, we'd probably be in LyLo. Please note the 'IF' in my question.

[Prosaurus]

Unvote, vote Prosaurus

Nice fishing.

Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. I said I'd be back later to post. I did not get to claim. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

[Prosaurus]

Romanus + Wingdamage?
Romanus + Crazy?
Maybe.
PS: I'm a VT. This is twilight. I am honest.

[Prosaurus]

Wow. Well played, never saw it coming. Wing, Crazy and Romanus were all too scummy to me.

[Prosaurus]

Say, what's VCA?