Newbie 1082: No Country for Old Mafia - Game Over!

[Prosaurus]

@Wing Why would we lynch them without letting them defend themselves? It's not a scumtell at all.

@[L] Thanks for your input. I suppose I should have waited a bit before doing such analyzing.

[Prosaurus]

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

[-L-]

Romanus' ISO:

Romanus does a lot of explaining of game theories. He made some wishy-washy votes. He explained those as mistakes. Not sure how to take that....on one hand it seems scummy but the vibe I get from him is that he's an over-explainer. What I really don't like is his lack of investigation.

I was and continue to hunt scum. I have my methods, and I like them.

cjdrum is our lynch for today. Opinions?

- What are your methods? Read and let others do the investigating?
- Where in this game have you hunted?

[Prosaurus]

@L I really hate having an IC. They're meant to help newbies learn to play and answer questions, but if they play themselves it isn't too fair. But if they don't play, they'll be lynched and we wouldn't have anyone to answer our questions. And there's also a problem if they're scum.

[-L-]

I've had really good IC's to where it didn't matter if they were town or scum; they kept playing the game as needed. The difference between the IC I knew and this one was that the other didn't colunteer information and just played the game. As we newbs had questions and asked them, answers were offered. In that way it was simpler to sift the fluff [explanations] from the gameplay.

Having an IC is a boon, not a bane.

[-L-]

EBWOP: Volunteer

[Prosaurus]

Question: What a boon, and what'a a bane? I'm guessing a boon is a good thing? Because that really depends on who your IC is.

[-L-]

/dictionary -> best friend. ^.^

[Prosaurus]

Lolz

[-L-]

Boon: A blessing or benefit; that which is asked or granted as a benefit or favor; a gift; a benefaction; a grant; a present; a prayer or petition; good; prosperous;
Bane: a curse, the cause of destruction.

[Prosaurus]

Yeah I looked it up. But it really does depend on your IC.

[Prosaurus]

So L. What are your thoughts on cjdrum?

[-L-]

@cjdrum:

His flip flopping votes, trying to please the crowd, and constant reminders that he's a newb player in a newbie game are all scum tells. The latter is a newb tell as well as scum tell. Scummy read.

I am suspicious of cjdrum.

[-L-]

When I play this game, I read everyone's posts thoroughly. Am I alone in doing this??

[Prosaurus]

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

As you can see here, I am prepared to hammer him. Do you think it would be a good idea yet?

And no, you aren't. I just missed that post.

[Prosaurus]

Well, forgot it.

[cjdrum]

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.

I should be hammered. I've looked through, I've been scum-looking all game. I don't

want

to be hammered (for your sake and mine), but it'd probably be stupid for Town to ignore what's happened.

2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.

Townie. No special powers, no protect or investigate or gun. I can vote and post. Win by lynching Mafia.

3) Your experience. Links to games.

Newbie 1063 (complete), Open 295 (D1).

Italics is mine.

Re IC Trust: Yes, the IC in Newb 1063

was

scum. However, I find it fairly unlikely that my first two games will have IC scum... But I will be more careful. When I said "Programmed in" or whatever I said, I was slightly exaggerating - it's more that I want to look at what the IC's doing to see what's likely to be good.

[crazypianist1116]

So you're saying we should hammer you, but you don't want to be hammered? Can you give us some reasons as to why you think what you did was scummy/why you did them? Perhaps try to explain why you think you shouldn't be lynched for those reasons?

Re: 2 IC's in a row being scum, that's not how probability works.

[cjdrum]

I've been vote flipping, bandwagonning and just not thinking in general. I haven't been pushing a quick lynch on purpose, but that's what's come across.

I was following the IC because they're meant to be kind of helpful with what is good Town behavior - even if they're scum, they've probably played as scum enough to know what good Town behavior is. So with Romanus flipping and stuff, I mindlessly followed...

So why I was scummy - mindlessly following vote flipping and bandwagonning on that.
Why I did it - Didn't think. Romanus was talking about putting pressure on Misder, so I was helping with pressure. He changed (for "pressure" again), and I thought I was helping with pressure again.

And, can you explain that last comment? Are you saying that I can't trust probability, or that two ICs in a row is unlikely?

[crazypianist1116]

Now we're getting somewhere. You're giving reasons for your actions. Not particularly good, but they're explanations. Now do you realize that that's not how scumhunting works? People need to individually develop their own opinions of other people, not just blindingly follow the person who's voting (i.e. bandwagonning).

As for probability, I meant that the chance of an IC being scum in any one particular game is 2/9. That doesn't go down because an IC was scum in your previous game. To give another example, take flipping a coin. The probability of getting four heads in a row is 1/16. But the probability of getting a head after getting 3 heads is still 1/2.

[-L-]

cjdrum, I am very much prepared to hammer you. But first, can you post a few things.
1) Why you think you shouldn't be hammered.
2) Your role. I know you said you didn't have a PR, I just want confirmation.
3) Your experience. Links to games.

As you can see here, I am prepared to hammer him.

Do you think it would be a good idea yet?

And no, you aren't. I just missed that post.

First off, that's a scummy thing to ask. Red flags shot up when I read that. Think for yourself. When I heavily suspect someone, I put my vote on them. Sure, it's scary to be in the position as a hammer vote. But asking another player "what do you think I should do?" isn't good. What if they are actually scum? That can set scum up to say "well they told me to". I've been suspicious of you as well because of the number of slip ups you've had.

@cjdrum: why would you think the IC is automatically going to lead the townies? This is a thinking game.

After cj's last post, I'm getting a strong town read on his quotes. I believe scum were working well to get him knocked off.

[Misder]

Just putting it out there, if cjdrum isn't mafia, mafia is crazy+romanus. That's guts right there, but I like my intuition.

Vote: Romanus

I'll let Pro handle the hammer if he so chooses.

[Prosaurus]

I've been vote flipping, bandwagonning and just not thinking in general. I haven't been pushing a quick lynch on purpose, but that's what's come across.

I was following the IC because they're meant to be kind of helpful with what is good Town behavior - even if they're scum, they've probably played as scum enough to know what good Town behavior is. So with Romanus flipping and stuff, I mindlessly followed...

So why I was scummy - mindlessly following vote flipping and bandwagonning on that.
Why I did it - Didn't think. Romanus was talking about putting pressure on Misder, so I was helping with pressure. He changed (for "pressure" again), and I thought I was helping with pressure again.

And, can you explain that last comment? Are you saying that I can't trust probability, or that two ICs in a row is unlikely?

TBH, this sounds very WIFOM-y to me.
I wanted to know your experience so I could tell if you really are newb or not. While I would vote for Romanus, having an IC can be useful even if they are scum. We'll see how it turns out on Day 2.
VOTE: cjdrum
Sorry, just remember. If you are town, you can still win even if you die. And there will be other games.

[cjdrum]

Yeah. Just, when I'm not thinking right (which seems to happen often), I get confused ideas - and so that was one of them. It's just my stupid brain, and now I'm thinking more about thinking more.

My vote stays on Romanus, for now.


Ninja'd by Misder: Why will crazy be scum?
Also, off of this:

Romanus is at L-2, I'm at L-1, and [L] has just raised a Prosaurus issue. Please don't be voting before discussion happens.

[crazypianist1116]

cjdrum, that's a lynch. Pro, was that really necessary?