Mini 255 - RajÔÇÖs Freaktown I (The Beginning)- GAMEOVER

[Don Gaetano]

Eek! 3 dead! and Iammars' name has 3 syllables. Coincidence? I think not.

vote: Iammars

Besides, pirates freak me out. Not to mention that posting a picture of Tim Curry that's not in any way connected to the Rocky Horror Picture Show should be considered a crime against humanity.

[Don Gaetano]

This thread is getting way too quiet, we have a time limit remember?

At the moment nobody seems to have anything constructive to say, and neither do I actually, but we have to do something, or we might have to rush to lynch someone without having time to discuss it at the end of the day.

[Don Gaetano]

Raj, You have no idea how happy that star made me.

For some reason it means a lot more to me than when my teacher gave me a star in the first grade. You just made my day.

[Don Gaetano]

Hmm, maybe we should discuss tactics here, are we just gonna start random bandwagons to force people to roleclaim. That could help the scum a lot if we're unlucky. On the other hand we don't seem to have anything better to do at the moment.

I think our best option right now would be to try to keep the thread active, then we would have something better than complete randomness to go by. Atleast we could accuse anyone that's inactive, anyone that writes posts with little or no content, and anyone that writes something particularly scummy . In my opinion it's better than doing nothing, or starting a random bandwagon, which are the only things we've done so far.

How about we discuss some of the posting restrictions we've seen this far, maybe there's something there that could lead us in the direction of scum. I find Iammars' pirate thing a bit weird, but since i get the feeling Raj is a bit weird too, I don't know if it really makes him look more like scum, town or neither of the above.

Oh, well. That's my two cents I guess. Hopefully enough to start a discussion

[Don Gaetano]

Bah! Ok, I guess we're all pretty confused, and have no idea what to look for, or even what to say that could be remotely useful. Heck, with as many killing groups as there seems to be, even the scum are most likely pretty much as clueless as the rest of us. That means that it will probably be hard to find scum based on their posts, since it would seem none of the scum know who the other scum are, and even if two of the scum know each other, that might be hard to spot in a game like this.

So I guess I don't see any other options to keep the conversation going than to

random vote: Chaos

I hope someone else has something more useful to add, but even if you don't please post your thoughts anyway.

[Don Gaetano]

eek! Forgot to

unvote

vote: Chaos

Sorry

[Don Gaetano]

Hmmm, that was a bit strange. Am I correct in assuming you have a posting restriction, LyingBrian. I'll consider you voting for me next as a yes

[Don Gaetano]

I'm inclined to agree with you Stewie, I even contemplated suggesting it myself, but maybe some of the scum can get an advantage from it. I might be a bit paranoid, but for all I know that could be why you suggested it in the first place. Although I can't really suspect you for it when I thought about suggesting it myself.

What do the rest of you think? I think the town could learn a lot from it, but if anyone else (maybe with a bit more experience from games with posting restrictions than I have) thinks it's too risky, maybe we shouldn't.

[Don Gaetano]

Well, considering the fact that despite everything this is supposed to be a regular mini, I suppose some weird winning condition (like winning when certain characters are killed) for a scum group is unlikely. So I guess I would have to agree with Stewie and Ranger, and I'll just claim right away since the day won't last forever.

I don't have a posting restriction at all. So the theory that everyone has one is pretty much void.

[Don Gaetano]

i do not have a problem with us claiming posting restrictions, seems a good way to catch scum! saying that, i do not have a posting restriction!

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one without a posting restriction, but care to explain your weird voting habits, if they're not caused by a restriction?

Ranger, Putting a third vote on someone for the second time after you apologized for the first is pretty scummy.

FOS: RangeroftheNorth

The only reason why it's not a vote is that much like Ranger, I have no idea how many votes people have right now.

oh, and

unvote

[Don Gaetano]

If RangeroftheNorth only has one vote because people have forgotten to unvote I'm going to

Vote: RangeroftheNorth

[Don Gaetano]

I guess I'm going to perform the fastest

unvote

in history here, but LyingBrian is acting WAY to weird.

[Don Gaetano]

What's weird is that you quoted my question about your voting habits, without answering it. Without writing anything else in the post in fact, and you've acted strange the entire game before that. In addition you've changed something in the quote both times you've quoted me now, and this while saying you don't have a posting restriction.

That's what's weird

[Don Gaetano]

In other words, it's clear that either:

1. LyingBrian has a voting restriction, but is not allowed to say what it is or even to admitt that he has one.

or

2. That he's pretending that he does.

[Don Gaetano]

We're running out of time. I think we may just have to put all our suspicions on the table, and take a chance on someone. It's very unfortunate, but I doubt something better will come along before the deadline.

Personally I think LyingBrian and ROTN are the most suspicious ones, but then again you have many players who haven't been as active, and might have held a low profile on purpose. Whatever the case might be, we don't have a lot of time to decide what to do. Voice your opinions and suspicions now, or we'll be forced to random lynch someone.

[Don Gaetano]

Vote: LyingBrian

Your defence is basically that you're acting confusing on purpose, and that you've actually planned the spesifics of it as a "meta-game tactic"? If you actually spent time thinking about it, didn't it cross your mind that it isn't a great idea to confuse the town on purpose, except if you're scum that is. IMHO that is almost as bad as lying. The only thing you do is to take the town's attention away from finding scum, and make it even harder for the town to make sense of an already confusing game.

If someone can explain to me how LB's behaviour (which was obviously planned on some level) could help the town, please tell me and I'll let it go. But if nobody can, I certainly find it scummier than anything else we've seen Day 1.

By the way, I know I've put the third vote on LB, but like he himself pointed out, if someone were to speedlynch him, we would atleast know who we should lynch tommorow. I'd like to hear a roleclaim now.

[Don Gaetano]

If Raj wasn't the mod I'd probably doubt that claim, but since Raj, the only mod that can guarantee you a game with more killing groups than in Bosnia, kentuckian pirates and pictures of stuffed animals with disturbing anatomy, after all is the mod, I guess it's good enough for me.

Unvote

We'll probably find out sooner or later if LyingBrian's "special ability" aka "super power" checks out or not.

But I can't stop myself from thinking that being immune to night-kills is a way too powerful ability for a townie, and that it might actually be a sign that he's scum, so I'll

FOS: LyingBrian

[Don Gaetano]

Elvis, would you find it unlikely that Raj would make Erica scum? That's the real question.

[Don Gaetano]

I can say that at least one of the four is not scum.

Not necessarily, Raj could be scum in his spare time

[Don Gaetano]

Raj is alex, right?

I think one of Raj's real names is Alex, yes. Most likely the "a" in Raj

I also think we have to hurry up and lynch someone, time is running out, and if I understood the rules correctly there will be no lynch unless someone gets 5 votes on them, period.

So I'll

vote: LyingBrian

again

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. There can't possibly be a day killing group in this game considering the amount of night kills there was last night. That means that if LyingBrian was pro-town it would be impossible for the scum to win, unless the members of the hypotetical two-person mafia both remained untill the end with him. The other killing groups wouldn't be able to win at all.

How can a pro-town role be immune to night kills when we have so many different killing groups? The only explanations I can see are that either:

1. The scum have another winning conditions than "last group standing" which is normal, and we haven't been told about it.

2. There's actually just 1 killing group, they just get to kill 3 people, in completely different ways each night.

3. Raj messed up the layout for the game, and didn't think about the consequences of having an un-killable townie.

4. LyingBrian is scum, if he lied about his role or not.

If those are the options I'd guess option 4 is most likely. I just can't believe it's that easy. Am I missing something? Are there other options?

Since I'm pretty new at this I might be overlooking something obvious. Please correct me if I'm missing something. If I'm wrong I promise to apologise and hide under the table in shame, but if I'm right LyingBrian has to be scum.

[Don Gaetano]

unvote

vote: Don Gaetano

voting for somebody just to get a lynch is not helpful to the town! also, my role is provable! nobody protect me, and somebody target me! if that happens, i can guarantee there will be at most 3 kills tomorrow morning! of course, that does not prove i'm scum or town, just that i did not lie about my ability! maybe the balance to my powerful role is that nobody will believe it?!?

I'm sorry if my post's length wasn't enough to convince you that I didn't just vote you "to get a lynch" as you put it. I'll try to make my explanation even longer next time. The only reason why I said "we need to hurry up and lynch someone" (I didn't choose the best way to say it, I'll give you that) is that we are in fact running out of time, and unless we want a no lynch we need to choose who should be lynched very soon.

When it comes to your role being provable. My point is that I believe you have the ability you say you have, expecially because of what Elvis has said, I just don't think you're pro-town. I can't understand how the game mechanics could allow a pro-town role that makes it impossible for the scum to win. The fact that you haven't been able to think of a plausible fifth option to the explanations I could think of in my last post doesn't make you look more innocent, either.

And I can't believe that Raj would think your role was balanced by the fact that nobody would believe it. Because that means that if we in fact did believe you, the game would be over and the town would've already won. Letting a mafia game be decided by the town's reaction to a single claim sounds like a terrible layout to me.

---

By the way, I hope everyone understands that I don't think we should lynch LB right away. I atleast want to hear from people who maybe think a bit clearer than me, on how LB's role could work in the game if he is infact pro-town as he claims. But if nobody can think of a good explanation, then I guess today's lynch is a no-brainer.

[Don Gaetano]

I for one do not think Raj (or anyone else for that matter) would risk his entire game on the assumption that we would lynch LB in this situation. What if a bandwagon never formed against LB in the first place? What if nobody thought about the consequences a pro-town role would have on the setup? Raj might be unpredictable, and I agree with the point that we shouldn't try outguessing the mod, but having an un-killable townie without some sort of mechanism to get around it for the scum, would be idiotic.

The ONLY thing that makes me uncertain is precisly game mechanics. Is it possible that there is a game mechanism that would make the scum able to win even if LB can't be nightkilled? If someone with more experience than me can think of a scenario where the chances of such a mechanism existing are higher than slim to nothing, then fine, but if not, LB is scum. It's as simple as that.

[Don Gaetano]

LB can be lynched...so they can just lynch him when there's nobody else to prevent it (i.e. other townies).

The point is that this would be possible if there was only one killing group, but I hope you agree with me that it seems highly unlikely that there's only one killing group considering 3 people got killed last night in completely different ways. So if LB can't be killed during the night, that means that if one og the SK's remain untill the end with him there would have to be a draw, and the scum's only hope of winning would be that the town lynches LB at one time or the other.

That does not make sense...

...I rest my case.

[Don Gaetano]

LB, if it turns out you're un-nightkillable that wouldn't help clear you at all. That's why it's a bad idea.

And if you really are pro-town wouldn't you understand why we think that a game where the scum can't win unless the town lynches you sounds unlikely? Does that make us idiots? If you should turn out innocent, I still wouldn't think we've done anything wrong by lynching you. I would just have a bunch of questions for Raj, when the game was over. It's kinda like a theme game where someone writes the name of their character wrong in a roleclaim. It might have been the Mod's mistake but the town still pretty much has to lynch the individual. If you understand what I'm getting at. It seems to me that either Raj's setup is even weirder than we could ever imagine (this is supposed to be a normal after all), or Raj screwed up the setup, or you're scum. To me the last option is most likely.

[unless there are 2 scum groups])

We've pretty much established that there has to be atleast 3 scum groups, if I thought there was only one I wouldn't think you were scum. Do you find it likely that there's one scum group that gets 3 kills each night and kill people in 3 completely different ways?

-----

Time is REALLY running out, I hope someone's online to vote.

[Don Gaetano]

I'll be online before the deadline.

I hope you're not the only one...

[Don Gaetano]

LyingBrian, the scum can massacre each other during the night, and I'm pretty sure we have a doc, a vig and a lot of other power roles. We might even have a backup cop.

But that really isn't the point. LB, either you haven't read my posts, or you're pretending to not understand what I'm saying. Let me spell it out for you.

The town can win without your role on our side (although it will be tough considering last night), but the scum wouldn't be able to win at all with your role on our side. Do you see the problem?

i don't like how Don Gaetano is gunning for me! i think he's scum trying to get rid of a powerful townie!

Oh, come on. If you were pro-town, wouldn't you understand where I'm coming from with this. The only logical solution to a un-nightkillable role is that you're scum. Now that ofcourse doesn't mean that I couldn't possibly be scum, but if you find it scummy for people to point out logicial solutions, then that's your problem.

I would like to say that I don't think raj would make one of his girls scum because he likes boobs too much. WAY too much.

On the other hand, somebody was killed with a vaginal cup last night. WHO THE HELL KILLS WITH A VAGINAL CUP?

Good point Elvis. I atleast would hope that a female character is responible for that kill, and that certainly doesn't make LB look any less suspicious.

[Don Gaetano]

Then, no lynch it is.

[Don Gaetano]

oh, and a vaginal cup is a hygienic device that originates from the orient if I'm not mistaken. It's used to gather up blood during that time of the month... cough... I can't believe I knew that, without having to check it up. I know way too many things I don't need to know.

[Don Gaetano]

And you're male...

I know, I know. I'm gonna hang myself now...

That's the downside of having a photographic memory. The 16 languages come in handy, though

[Don Gaetano]

I hope that doesn't mean you've seen one...

I have seen one, fortunately not in use, and only in a picture. I read an article about it a few years ago. Apparently it's much more hygienic than tampons that can cause many health problems....

I'm think I'll leave it at that.

And I wish I had a photographic memory. Might bring my Spanish grade up...

You know, you only see the positive sides. Strange enough, I still manage to forget my dentist appointments, and stuff like that. I just remember facts... every last one of them, and I can tell you that it's not as fun as it seems. Be careful what you wish for.

[Don Gaetano]

On a more serious note. Are we really just going to accept a no lynch? I think we're going to be sorry we did...

[Don Gaetano]

Who are we going to lynch? roland or the unnightkillable townie. Those seem like our only two options, and neither look appealing.

You've read my reasoning, and you still think he's pro-town?

[Don Gaetano]

If there's only one scum group then the town has already lost, since they can kill three times each night. If there are more, then the town has a chance because they will eventually target each other and/or the same individual. So there has to be more than one scum group (most likely 3 considering the kills last night). If there are many scum groups. How can the scum win if there's an un-nightkillable townie? Except for a few HIGHLY unlikely scenarios, the best the scum could do is to hope for a draw. Doesn't that break the setup?

[Don Gaetano]

Did LB say he was Unlynchable? NO. When the scum has majority, they can lynch him with no opposition.

But if there's three or more scum groups. Then they would have to kill each other to win. If there was two scum and LB left, they would have to choose either to have a draw with LB or each other. They wouldn't be able to win.

[Don Gaetano]

CLAIM DON

I think it's better if I wait untill tomorow to do that, if people want me to.

[Don Gaetano]

Not really...depends on who targets who and stuff.

Yes, really. They wouldn't target LB during the night if he's un-nightkillable now would they?

[Don Gaetano]

I'm saying they target eachother to kill eachother. Different scum groups can kill eachother even if they can't kill LB.

Precisly, but then they would both die, and town would win. It doesn't work

[Don Gaetano]

And there have been games that ended in draws. Muppets and Tom Cruise Mini come to mind.

I'm not saying that a game couldn't end in a draw. I'm saying that if Lb is pro-town, then the game would either end with a town victory or a draw, and that doesn't make sense.

[Don Gaetano]

Just say your role name. If it's a certain one, then I can help you.

How could you help me? You mean help me during the night?

You're automatically assuming that the scum will always be down to max one scum per group at the end of the game, which may/may not be true. There is most likely a group of two or more out there, and if at least two of them survive, they can win.

But that would mean that the scum groups with less than two people wouldn't be able to win, and the chances of both members of one scum group surviving to the end, when there's two other scum groups out there are slim to nothing. (if there's a 2 person mafia and 2 serial killers that is)

[Don Gaetano]

STOP OUTGUESSING THE MOD

I'm not trying to outguess the mod. Would you have been saying the same if you were in a mini where 3 people claimed doc, and someone assumed that someone had to be lieing? The mod could after all have put 3 docs into the game.

I'm just pointing out that a scenario where LB is pro-town is highly unlikely, at best.

---

And my name is Jed, if it helps.

[Don Gaetano]

we can't get to a lynch on don...

I don't even understand why you think I'm suspicious...

[Don Gaetano]

Last post from me for the day.

I hope everyone will use the night to re-read the thread. It seems like I live on another planet than Elvis right now. Maybe someone will be able to explain to one of us, what the other person is saying.

[Don Gaetano]

Of course, you know that one of us is going to turn up dead tonight, just to simplify things...

I know

[Don Gaetano]

Of course, you know that one of us is going to turn up dead tonight, just to simplify things...

Sadly (although not unexpectedly) it turned out to be true, RIP Iammars.

-----

well first things first...

darquiel, how many killers tried to kill me left their house?

Why would anyone want to kill you LB. I think everyone agrees that your ability is most likely real considering what Elvis said. Why would scum waste their nightkill on finding out if you were lying or not? The scum would have no reason for trying to kill you if they thought you were lying, and if they thought you weren't lying it would be even more stupid to target you.

Most likely:

1. Some scum groups can only kill every other night.

2. All the scum groups targeted Iammars, and we weren't told in the night scene.

3. The doc was successful.

4. A combination of two or all three of the above.

-----

That being said, please enlighten us, Darquiel.

[Don Gaetano]

Sorry for the long post

-----

P.S. i really don't think you need to apologize to Don Gaetano, elvis_knits... his arguments still have holes, mostly assumptions...

Well, I have to admit that my arguments against you are based on assumptions, but unless you have out-of-thread information, more or less all arguments in mafia are based on assumptions. However, I made my assumptions very clear, and nobody has explained to me what part of my assumptions are illogical.

I'll post my argument one last time to make everything clear.

-----

To make my argument valid, all of the following assumptions must be correct:

1. There's more than one scum group and atleast one serial killer in this game. (If not then 3 nightkills would be hard to explain)

2. Atleast one of the serial killers has to be the only person left in the game to win. (As is usualy the case)

4. LyingBrian can't be nightkilled. (Providing he's telling the thruth)

If those assumptions are correct, then my argument makes it IMHO almost impossible that LB is pro-town, so here goes:

If LB was pro-town and the town didn't lynch him (remember that we started the game with a cop, so his claim could easily have been proven) then the only way a serial killer could win would be if there were 3 scum left in the endgame. (if not, then the best thing a serial killer could hope for is a draw)

Since there's more than one scum group, the scum can kill each other at night, and we can lynch scum during the day. If you combine that with all the other facts in this game, the chances of there being 3 scum left in the endgame are so small that it wouldn't even be funny. (well of course they're higher now than they were when the game started, due to an unfortunate night and a no lynch ) If someone tried to calculate the odds, they would find out just how small the chances of that happening are. Simple logic tells you that it's way to close to zero.

Based on those assumptions and that argument, I'd say it would be a gamebreaker if LB was pro-town and un-nightkillable, and if he lied about his ability then "Lynch a Liar" applies.

Please tell me if I'm missing something here, yesterday a lot of people didn't agree with this argument, if people still don't agree then please tell me what you think is wrong with it. If people do agree with the assumptions, and can't find any mistakes in the argument, then LB more or less has to be scum.

-----

At the end I just want to repeat that I'd really like to know what part of my assumptions and argument people disagree with if they think it's wrong. If I'm mistaken then atleast tell me where the mistake is.

[Don Gaetano]

Raj, could you please prod Logicticus, he hasn't posted for almost a week, but he has been very active in other games.

Maybe a polite PM to Darquiel as well. It's only been a few days but we're still waiting for his report on the night's activity.

-----

I guess there's not much to do untill we hear from them, but we don't want the day to end like yesterday now do we? So let's keep the conversation going. I suggest that everyone who agrees that LyingBrian

seems

to be our best lynch

at the moment

say so in the thread. Remember 50% of us are scum. So in my opinion our best strategy for today is to have a 3/4 majority that agree on who should get lynched (if possible of course, but we'll face that when we get there).

-----

I'm for lynching LyingBrian at the moment.

Why doesn't everone just write a short post saying if they agree or disagree.

[Don Gaetano]

An important question. LyingBrian, do you have a night ability you haven't told us about?

[Don Gaetano]

Ranger, it would've been extremely stupid for a SK to try to kill LB. Because if LB is un-nightkillable, he would've thrown his kill away, and if it did work, LB wouldn't be a problem for him anyway. I'm not saying that it's impossible that a SK tried it, but he would have to be an idiot. I think it's more likely that the doc got lucky.

-----

As for me being eager to lynch LB yesterday. It was because I believed (and I still believe) that I had a strong argument against him, combined with the fact that the deadline was approaching (the deadline I warned people about several times yesterday) and I didn't want the day to end with a No Lynch when we had good reason to suspect that LB was scum. In fact I got extremely frustrated with the town for letting a No Lynch happen, because of the following reasons:

1. You were so inactive during the entire day that we ended up without any clear suspects before the last couple of RL days.

2. More than half the town didn't even post a single time the last RL day, when we had to make a decission.

3. Elvis and Iammars who were active the last RL day (very active I might add) didn't think my argument against LB was good enough without ever explaining what part of my argument they didn't agree with.

So with a few hours left untill the deadline I was doing everything I could to get the player I was convinced was scum lynched. At the time I figured that both Elvis and Iammars were scum too. Since only scum would want the day to end with a no lynch when there's a strong case against a player.

-----

Oh, and LB, I really need the answer to the question I asked in my last post. Do you have a night ability you haven't told us about?

[Don Gaetano]

@Don Gaetano

why is your question so important?...

Just answer the question, please

[Don Gaetano]

To be honest, I don't know what to do about LB. I'd be fine with voting him, except for the fact that if he really is pro-town, we're screwing ourselves majorly. I find it REALLY suspicious that only two people left their houses to kill last night. It means nobody went to try to kill LyingBrian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks bad for LB. (Unless scum counted on this making him look bad, thus setting him up for a lynch).

Like I've pointed out several times today, any scum who tried to target LB tonight would be idiots. It would be pointless. The fact that he wasn't targeted doesn't make LB more suspicious or less suspicious. It only means that our killers aren't stupid.

[Don Gaetano]

I thought they might test him. Who knows if he's telling the truth? He could be a lying SK for all I know.

Why would a SK want to test him, and potentially throw their nightkill away? Even if they figured he was most likely lying about his ability, there would be no point in targetting him, as he wouldn't be a problem for them, if he didn't have the ability he claims he has.

It would be as stupid as the witch trials. "If she floats, she's a witch, and if she drowns she's innocent, and you've killed her for no reason"

[Don Gaetano]

I'm saying LyingBrian could be an SK. I'm not saying that an SK would want to kill LyingBrian.

Then what was the point of your argument?

Do we really never agree?

Doesn't look that way, no

[Don Gaetano]

My point is that the mafia have no way on knowing if LyingBrian is town or SK, and also can't know if he is lying about his unkillable ability. So they might try to kill him. I mean, unless they are just trusting him, they might try to kill him.

No?

No, the point is that they would have about a 80-90% chance of killing someone else and only 50% chance of killing LB. And if LB is lying then he isn't dangerous to the scum, and they would know that he might get lynched today anyway. It would be a very bad tactic for the scum to target LB.

Don...I <3 you, even though we never agree. A relationship need passion, does it not?

Si bella, we italians are a bit loud and annoying, but it's because we're a passionate people. Besides, you know I love you

[Don Gaetano]

meh, i'm going to wait for Don Gaetano to respond to my post before i claim anything... i want to see if he'll give me another, "Just answer the question, please"...

As you wish.

Just answer the question, please.

You're not going to get anything else from me before you do infact answer the question.

[Don Gaetano]

Based on LB's answers to my question, I'm getting more and more convinced that he's scum. If he's not, then he's played really, really bad for a townie, expecially if he had that role.

Normally, I want the day to last as long as possible, but now I'm getting more and more in favor of just lynching LB right away. IMHO LB is acting incredibly scummy by not answering the question. If he was pro-town, he could just tell us everything about his role, and the scum couldn't kill him anyway. But, if he's scum, he would be terrified to answer the question wrong, He would want to know what I know before he answers. Why would a pro-town player push for me to roleclaim before he answers that question, and give the scum even more information?

I'm going to

Vote: LyingBrian

. He's had several opportunities to answer the question.

[Don Gaetano]

Don Gaetano, RangeroftheNorth, & others will have serious explaining to do...

Tomorrow there will be a mass claim, so that won't be a problem. Not that I see why I would have anymore explaining to do than anyone else. I've made my reasons for voting you very clear.

I've been thinking about not lynching LB today, because of the possibility that he's telling the truth, but the more I think about it, the more I realise that this is basically lynch or lose for the town. If LB turns out to be scum with the ability he claimed, we will have a good chance of winning tommorow. Also because the scum would be much more likely to kill each other during the night if the un-nightkillable scum gets lynched. If LB turns out to be innocent, we've most likely lost the game, but the same goes for lynching anyone else.

[Don Gaetano]

Unvote

Vote: RangeroftheNorth

It's hard to believe that LB is telling the thruth, but since I believe he thought he was lynched, and still said he was innocent, I guess that clears his name.

[Don Gaetano]

OK, let's agree on who to lynch before we vote for anyone, because if we don't, the scum could speedlynch someone.

I also think a mass-roleclaim is in order today.

[Don Gaetano]

Maybe, but we could have 2 serial killers too.

I think Chaos and Stewie should roleclaim first. Because scum have a big advantage in claiming last, and I think they are most suspicious today.

[Don Gaetano]

Ahhh, good old Elizabethtown

Actually, I think Kirsten Dunst looks silly, with or without hats. So while that red hat might look cute on someone else, on her it just looks silly.

...I think "silly" is one of my favourite english words.

[Don Gaetano]

Harlot? I guess "Puttana" would be close enough.

As to my favourite word in Italian. I guess I would say "Precipitevolissimevolmente", which means very, very fast, or very, very hastily.

[Don Gaetano]

LB seemed innocent based on how he reacted to what we thought was a lynch.

Elvis also seems pretty innocent judging by her behaviour, and the way she has shard information with the town.

So it's not that you and Chaos are suspicious, it's just that there's two scum left, and right now I feel you two are more likely to be scum than LB and Elvis

[Don Gaetano]

I didn't say I believe you are scum. I said I believe the chance that you're scum is higher than Elvis and LB.

I partially agree with your comments about LB, but he has already claimed. There's only five people left, the only logical thing for the town to do is to have a mass-claim today. Your reluctance to claim makes you look very scummy in my eyes. I want to hear a claim from you, then I'll claim and then Elvis.

[Don Gaetano]

Well I'm Jed AKA Psycho man Estes, AKA the sexy movie man.

I invite one person over to watch horror movies each night, thereby protecting them from night kills. I am not a roleblocker.

I protected Iammars the first night. Then Darquiel, then elvis_knits.

At present I'm almost positive Stewie is scum, but let's hear from Elvis first.

[Don Gaetano]

Chaos could be telling the thruth, but I can't see how the same can be said about Stewie, although I of all people agree with what he's saying about LB.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Stewie is scum, and trying to look innocent by being relatively honest about his role. Elvis, Chaos and LB could all be the other scum. Then again I won't be alive to find out tommorow.

Elvis, who's Jaide225?

[Don Gaetano]

ahhhh, How silly we've been. Chaos has admitted to being scum. Notice how logicticus was killed by "The shadow man". A word that's used consistently for one of the killers each night, he's even been called Mr. Shadow Man by his victims. And like I said, always just for one of the kills each night.

I'm now certain that Chaos is scum (The Shadow Man has killed people in different ways each night too), and almost certain that Stewie is Inhim who kills with the word of god.

Vote: Chaos

[Don Gaetano]

It clearly refers to one particular killer. The others are called "a figure" or "a man" and similar.

And by the way. You were reffered to as "Mr. Shadow Man" night two, not night three. Thank you for confirming you're scum

[Don Gaetano]

??? How did Raj's post clear Chaos?

It basically said he wasn't going to answer the question.

Then he said that the only thing "confirmed" by the night is that _____ was killed by a _____.

That doesn't mean that there's no other information in the flavour. Like the way the scum interacted with Alex/Ray in the scene where Sara is killed. The flavour isn't completely unrelated to the game.

---

To me, Chaos is basically confirmed scum. Atleat when you consider the "Mr. Shadow Man" comment. If he was scum he would vaguely remember being called "Mr. Shadow Man" night two, but if he was a one-shot vigilante as he claims. He would remember very well, that he wasn't called that when he killed.

If Chaos only meant shadow man in general as he claims, wouldn't it be normal to say "I don't know why I was called Shadow Man" instead of "I don't know why I was called

Mr.

Shadow Man"?

[Don Gaetano]

Anyone who thinks flavour doesn't hint at anything, must also agree that it's completely incidental that people have been killed by the word of god. And that it doesn't hint at there being a killer with that kill method.

[Don Gaetano]

It doesn't matter who I protect. I'll get killed, since there's no one to protect me.

[Don Gaetano]

Anything you can say?

[Don Gaetano]

can't Stewie say the same thing... like i said a WIFOM...

What? How is that WIFOM.

I'm the only doc and there's no roleblocker, how is it WIFOM to say that I'll die. Stewie claimed he was a doc that cant protet people.

[Don Gaetano]

Stewie said his protection didn't work. So when I end up dead, Stewie would still be able to say that he's a tonie with the role he claimed, so that plan won't work at all.

By the way, that's another reason why I'm convinced Stewie is the other scum.

[Don Gaetano]

I would have to agree

[Don Gaetano]

Let me start the day by saying that I wasn't completely honest yesterday (normally a bad thing, but not this time IMHO). In addition to being a normal doc, I had the option to protect myself one, and only one night during the game. An ability I used last night. So, while it's not

completely

unlikely that the scum decided not to kill me, even if they did, I wouldn't have died.

I'm 99% sure that Stewie is the remaining scum, even though I agree with him that LB's role is unbelievable, but at present I think that's because Raj is weird, and not because LB is lying.

-----

Stewie, saying that LB's role sounds completely made up doesn't even come close to explaining how made up your role sounds. The fact that you're trying to draw attention towards LB using arguments that work even better against you, doesn't make you look any better. But I agree that a quick lynch wouldn't be in the town's interest.

-----

Another thing that makes it plausible that LB isn't scum, is his answer to my question about him having a night ability (even though he took his precious time answering it). I figured that he would think that I had a way of knowing if he had been active during the night or not, so if he was scum he would have to say he had a night action. But him having a night action would not make sense considering his explanation to why he's un-nightkillable. Ofcourse at the time, I figured that he had to be scum anyway, but now I think it makes him look a lot more innocent.

[Don Gaetano]

If we no lynch, These are the possible scenarioes:

1. Stewie gets killed = I and Elvis lynch LB tomorrow.

2. LB gets killed = I and Elvis lynch Stewie tomorrow.

3. Elvis won't get killed because I'll protect her.

4. I die (because I can't protect myself) = No information is gained, and LB and Stewie would be at each others throats tomorrow, without my insightful mind to save silly Elvis from lynching the wrong person

5. Nobody dies during the night. No information is gained, status quo continues.

So I don't see the advantages of a No Lynch.

-----

Elvis, since Stewie is an SK if he's scum, the fact that he hasn't voted for the scum who have been lynched means nothing. In fact, since there's no cop, it would be in the SK's own interest to kill of the other scum.

...But I still think Stewie is our last scum.

[Don Gaetano]

1. I'm sure that both you and Elvis wouldn't vote me tommorow if Stewie died... and I'm ruling out the possiblity that I'm scum incase you wondered . I actually think I've been a bit too hasty with labeling Elvis as pro-town, though. It's just that you and Stewie have so much more suspicious roles. (I'm much more suspicious of Stewie than you though.)

2. Your un-nightkillableness must have slipped my mind, so point 2 is void.

3. I've changed my mind, I see no point in protecting Elvis.

4. Good point, but I don't think there will be any information in the night scene that only Elvis would be able to understand. It would only mention me getting killed by the word of god by a figure, nicely wrapped in one of Raj's shakespeareian dialogues

5. Like I said, Status Quo would remain.
-----

After having thought about it, I'm for a no lynch.

I think we'll most likely end up with no kill, but we'll see.

If there is a kill, I'll most likely be the one killed, and I'm not 100% sure that anyone of you are innocent. So I think there's no reason why I should protect anyone at all during the night.

LB can't be killed, Stewie won't get killed (even if he's innocent), If Elvis gets killed she's confirmed, and if I get killed, atleast you will have learned something from the death scene, like you would from all deaths.

-----

But let's not waste the day yet. If Elvis should die, it's in the town's interest that she tells us exactly what she thinks about the situation, and any other information we might find useful later.

[Don Gaetano]

Both you and Elvis have more posts than me?

How embarrasing.

I have to try harder next time.

[Don Gaetano]

The more I think about it, the less possible it is that LB is scum, because:

1. It's confirmed that LB is Erika, and that Erica irl goes to law school in Boston. (because he couldn't have made it up, and it's 100% impossible that Elvis and LB are in the same scumgroup, so Elvis couldn't be covering for him)

2. It's logical that Erika can't be night-killed since she's in Boston, and that she doesn't have any other night abilities, since she's in Boston. (I think it's a bit stupid to have an un-nightkillable townie, because letting the scum win in the end game would mean breaking with the normal logic/flavour of mafia games, but that is up for discussion later.

3. Halo Freak/Darquiel was Sara (pro-town). So unless Sara was insane (something I find astronomically unlikely considering her limited ability), her results were correct and there's just one scum left.

4. That scum kills by the word of god, because we've confirmed that none of the others did. (check up the night scenes if you want)

What are the chances that Erika is actually in town during the nights, killing people with the word of god? Sounds WAY too unlikely to me.

-----

So if LB isn't scum, that leaves Elvis and Stewie.

Elvis is a criminal mastermind, if she's scum. Becasue:

1. She's provided us with information that we had no way of knowing if she hadn't voluntered it, and I doubt anyone would've asked her for it.

2. She's been very active from the day she replaced RabidRodents.

3. She's actively looked for scum, and defended other players when she believed them (namely LB day one, who has to be innocent if Elvis is scum). Something most scum are too afraid to do, since it puts them in the spotlight, and leaves a posting and voting record that other people can point out as suspicious if someone you defended turns out to be scum, or someone you attacked turns out to be innocent.

4. Her posting restrictions are as good as confirmed because RabidRodents had them day one, and I doubt even Raj would make a role that kills by the word of god during the night, and talks about horses and Elizabethtown during the day.

5. Her role is very plausible since there's been townies with only a posting restriction, or minor ability already confirmed/killed (same thing ). Easy to fake, but still...

Elvis being scum, takes a giant leap of imagination as well.

-----

Stewie on the other hand is very suspicious because:

1. He's been lurking the entire game except under direct fire.

2. He's been very careful not to defend or attack anyone to seriously before the end game, and usually only when other people have already voiced their opinion on the subject, and even then normally only recycling the arguments of others.

3. He's InHim, the last killer kills by the word of god... need I say more.

4. He's claimed to be a doc that either can't protect people, or can only protect people against the word of god. A very weak role, and not very plausible IMHO.

5. There's already a doc in this game, me. How often do you have multiple docs in a 12 person mini?

The list goes on, but I can't be bothered to continue it right now since this post is already way too long, and it's all things everyone knows already anyway. All in all, I find it so likely that Stewie is the remaining scum that I'm going to

VOTE: STEWIE

I hope I'm right

[Don Gaetano]

And LB, If Stewie is the sk. He didn't target Fritzler the first night, that's just what he claimed he did.

He targeted Ibaesha if he's the guy that kills people with the word of god.

[Don Gaetano]

If nothing else, my vote proves that LB is innocent like I concluded.

LB is now a confirmed townie.

-----

Unvote

I'd like to hear from Stewie before we lynch him.

[Don Gaetano]

Hmm, that sounds strange

In the short time I've been here I have heard him refer to himself as god, so he can't be completely fanatic. (like we europeans think everyone from the US who refer to themselves as religious are )

[Don Gaetano]

There's atleast one thing we all should agree with. If Stewie isn't scum Raj must have created the setup precisly to fool us into lynching Stewie. If he had someone kill by the word of god, and not letting it be inHim.

Considering there was 4 scum with a total possiblity of 3 kills each night, that sounds incredibly unbalanced. 4 scum with a total possiblity of 3 kills each night, is almost unbalanced by itself, and since LB's role doesn't make a SK victory impossible that doesn't equal things out at all. Scum could just refrain from attacking LB, like they must have done, if they weren't stupid.

Stewie just has to be scum.

-----

@LyingBrian

A no lynch is meaningless now, unless we run out of time today. Right now the fact is that either:

1. Elvis dies = we lynch Stewie.

2. Stewie dies = we lynch Elvis.

3. I die by the word of god. No information is gained and you would be alone to figure out who the remaining scum is.

Unless you think there's a possibility that I'm scum ofcourse, then it could help, but if you do, I can't understand why the remaining scum would kill anyone at all.

------------

I'm really convinced that Stewie must be our remaining scum though. If there's any questions you would like answered before you make up your mind, I'll be happy to answer as good as I can.

-----

As to the "Why did Stewie pick somebody who died to say he protected Night one?" question.

There are many possible answers to that, the most likely IMHO is:

He figured out there had to be a real doc out there. Most likely he even knew since he most likely targeted Darquiel night two. Iammars was killed by Chaos and RotN/logicticus, so either the remaining scum decided not to kill (highly unlikely) or he targeted Darquiel who I was defending.

He then figured out that if he claimed regular doc he would most likely get lynched day three, or even if he managed to get me lynched, he would get lynched the remaining day.

He also took a lot of time before he claimed, letting him think theese things through.

Claiming a weird doc-like role, which he has no idea how works however could make people think exactly like you're thinking now.

This doesn't have to be the case but IMHO it's a plausible posibility.

[Don Gaetano]

LB is confirmed innocent now, and I consider myself confirmed innocent aswell since I'm the only doc that actually protect people, besides the fact that I ofcourse KNOW I'm innocent.

That last post, suddenly makes me slightly less sure that Stewie has to be scum, Elvis. The wording of the entire post is scummy.

[Don Gaetano]

The remaining killer is a sk, so there can't be a mafia framer.

And the mafia framer in the game you pointed to, just reversed the investigation of cops. A completely different ability.

you know the more i think about it, the more i think that maybe being inHimshallibe works opposite of how we're thinking... maybe Stewie is a doctor, but can not protect AGAINST the word of God... w/ 2 doctors & an unnightkillable townie, that would balance out the 3 killing groups...

Fritzler wasn't killed by the word of god. And who would protect Fritzler the first night anyway...?

@LyingBrian

Do you think I might be scum, and is that something that makes you unsure about who to vote for? If the answer is no, then a no lynch would be meaningless.

[Don Gaetano]

And who would protect Fritzler the first night anyway...?

You bitch.

[Don Gaetano]

Iammars' winning condition was that he had to find Alex/Raj.

I would assume he figured Alex was innocent.

-----

Remember that Darquiel turned out innocent, and he had a role that told him there were four scum.

Darquiel being insane with a role like that is too far fetched, so there can't be two scum left now, I'm sure there's only one.

[Don Gaetano]

Well, I have <25% suspicion that Elvis is scum, but I won't vote yet. Atleast this makes me a confirmed townie as well.

Let's just keep our cool and wait as long as possible before we lynch him. We have nothing to lose by waiting another day or two, and see what Stewie and Elvis post.

[Don Gaetano]

Just because somebody doesn't put on the lynching vote at a certain time doesn't mean they can't be scum.

In the end-game, when scum will win if anyone but them gets killed, it does. Unless scum decides to play with the town instead of winning right away, and I actually think that would just be rude because it wouldn't help the scum to win, and would only drag out the game for no reason.

So, Don, you didn't say what your role's AIM screenname is

I've already posted all my aka's, there's no other identification given in my PM.

[Don Gaetano]

Hmm, I'm fairly confident that Stewie is our last scum, and I can't really think about anything being said that will convince me that he isn't, or prove that he is. So unless Elvis and LB disagree, I will put the final vote on him tomorrow.

[Don Gaetano]

Stewie, if I could prove that you're the scum, you would've been lynched a long time ago.

At present I'm more than 90% confident that you're scum, but since I can't see anything being said that would make that percentage slip under 50, or up to 100, I have to make a choice.

If this was a court of law I guess I would've had to let you go, but we're a lynching mob remember?

[Don Gaetano]

OK, there's no reason to drag it out.

Vote: Stewie

If I'm right I'd like to say that Stewie did a great job defending himself considering we were all pretty certain he was scum from day 3.

If I was wrong, I just have to take my hat off to Elvis, and admit to being "pwned" (I love silly words).

[Don Gaetano]

...should definately have been a theme...

...but a great game, and a very enjoyable one. Good game everyone

-----

I still think unnightkillable townies are a bad idea though, because if you follow the logic of normal game mechanics, the only reason why scum win when there's only one townie (who can't kill people) left, is because a lynch can't be reached, and the townie would get killed the following night in every possible scenario. With a unnightkillable townie that wouldn't happen, so it should end as a draw.

[Don Gaetano]

I did it on purpose

[Don Gaetano]

I had to with my role

"You are Jed, aka the Psycho man Estes, and you are the sexy movie man. You get to take someone to your house and watch a Friday the 13th marathon each night. You can watch the movies by yourself, but you can only do that once in the whole game. You win with the town."

-----

Now, Jaide and Erika are left all alone in a ghost town, hundreds of miles away from civilization (in fact across the ocean from civilization worth mentioning ) with this guy. I feel sorry for them, but I guess they'll live happily ever after... all three of them