In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

I've seen jackscum do a gambit before. And what's the evidence that it's a town gambit?

Show me the money.

[themanhimself]

Equinox has expanded the towns horizons, where as you are continually trying to close them.

Well no one can deny that Jack has been scummy regardless of his motivations and actual alignment, so what's better, eliminating one of the scummiest players from discussion or focusing on him?

@DGB: Can't, ongoing game, even though he's dead. You can find it if you want to

[Lady Lambdadelta]

TMH, where do you see my vote currently?

[Fishythefish]

I see no evidence that Jack is scum. Nothing he has done is better explained by scumJack than townJack, given his meta. I can't say I find his gambits fun or useful - I think they are divisive in a way that doesn't divide town from scum - but it's something he does as town.

VOTE: Zang

[Fishythefish]

No! My awesome powers have failed me! (

@mod: edit tags please?)

[DrippingGoofball]

I see a lot of excuses being made for Jack. They may be justified, I don't know. He's going to be vig'ed, watched, investigated, and laser-pumpkined by just about every PR tonight, but the scum will leave him alive, because he's one of their own, or so easily lynchable.

No good is coming out of this.

[Fishythefish]

Here's a relevant game for people who haven't seen Jack's silly gambits:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=650.

[farside22]

NS: you were in the (we can't talk about ongoing games) would you agree with TMH's assessment?

[SpyreX]

I'm tired and I think this needs more madness than I have.

Jack's upping the stakes makes no sense as a town gambit - he's either telling the straight truth or scum. Considering what we've seen from Fish and DGB, I'm thinkin its the former but I'll give it a real go in a bit

[Equinox]

Got a thought I want to post up here before I go to bed.

So, questions.
1. Short deadline or long deadline?
2. Double-vote or immunity?
3. Do you agree that questions look better when there are three of them?

What was the purpose of these questions? Did they help you get a read on anyone?

[Feysal]

I'm

not

going to reference an on-going (regardless of the fact that he's dead in it)

You just did. I know what you're thinking about, I'm in that game. I can't talk about it of course, but suffice to say that just because there is no obvious scum motivation in a gambit, that is no proof it would be a town gambit.

I had a look at the game Fishy posted the link to, and that gambit was apparently about Jack voting a townie to bait scum into hammering. Unfortunately for town, it was not scum but town Fishy who hammered, and the town lost when Fishy was lynched. Equinox said Jack would have a clear objective in mind for his town gambits, and this looks like a perfect example.

What happened in this game looks much more murky. Jack did not just claim that Nobody Special claimed scum, he is simultaneously accusing DGB of being scum. Only one god is scum, so accusing two simultaneously is insane, as is suggesting for an immortal to be lynched. Jack is being provocative, and this should supposedly help him get reads, yet he himself said he could not tell who was scum and who was not.

I tried to think of scum reasons for making this gambit, and there is of course the Kaleidoscope gambit, where an investigation-immune godfather purposely tries to attract an investigation for a false town read. Problem is he could just as easily attract a vigilante, and besides I would be surprised indeed if there was a priest godfather rather than a god. Another thought was that he could be trying to attract both a vigilante and an investigator, so that they would have to expose themselves to get him lynched when he survived. If DGB were the scum goddess, she would be able to grant him nightkill immunity so he would survive, but since she could not do it secretly this idea would make little sense either. Besides, I've not yet seen a scum faction that would sacrifice a member just to maybe force power roles to out themselves.

The only scum motivation I could think of that made any sense at all was him making a vaguely townish gambit to appear town, not to actually help. Even this does not make much sense, since for better or worse he turned himself into the focus of attention, and that can't be good for scum.

By the way, when farside22 pointed out how Nobody Special did not vote Jack when he said he was lying, I immediately thought that Jack must have told him about his gambit in their private communication. If it had been me making the gambit, I would definitely have warned my god in advance and gotten him to cooperate. Jack would be a fool not to do so. Nobody Special, has Jack explained to you anything about a gambit?

At the moment I'm more inclined to consider Jack's gambit slightly scummy, since it certainly does not have a clear objective such as Equinox spoke of. If he warned Nobody Special in advance, I'd feel much better about it.

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Andrius ( 1 ) Jack,
populartajo ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
me=weird ( 3 ) SpyreX, Zang, farside22,
SpyreX ( 0 )
Equinox ( 0 )
farside22 ( 1 ) Mina,
Feysal ( 0 )
Mina ( 0 )
themanhimself ( 2 ) Equinox, hitogoroshi,
Benmage ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
Jack ( 3 ) Lady Lambdadelta, Andrius, themanhimself,
Lady Lambdadelta ( 0 )
Zang ( 1 )

Fishythefish,

Not Voting ( 7 ) populartajo, me=weird, Feysal, Benmage, DeathRowKitty,

DrippingGoofball,

Nobody Special,

Total Votes ( 18 )

Deadline: February 14th at 23:00 EDT
With 18 able to vote, 10 needed to lynch.

[Fishythefish]

@Feysal: that is not the gambit I meant. I meant Jack's early game silly play. He answered some early questions by copying and pasting other answers, and appeared to softclaim SK.

I'd say the best thing to do with Jack's gambit here is totally ignore it.

[Nobody Special]

@farside: Yes. Jack appears scummy, no matter his alignment, when he pulls these shitty stunts. Truthfully, it's anti-town at best, and scummy at worst. I'm surprised he survives as long as he generally does.

[SpyreX]

If we're gonna test this, I'm more and more of the opinion checking against Jack and not lynching him would be the way to go.

Of course, the simple fact HE'S not voting him gives pause

[Equinox]

Nobody Special, I know you're a god and all, but us priests still like having our

demands

questions answered.

[Nobody Special]

SpyreX because he stated the Jack gambit "doesn't bother" him.

It doesn't bother you at all that others are saying the same thing, too?

I gather that Jack's gambit bothers you, but you can't say that he's scum for doing it, either, so why are you bothered by SpyreX?

Sorry -- I saw this, and meant to answer but obv forgot to.

SpyreX is also lurking more than anyone except Zang. Plus, SpyreX thinks I'm lying.

[SpyreX]

Yes, I do.

I think you screwed up and this is going to pan out in a perfect storm of WOOOAH.

I'd rather not waste a lynch to get there.

[Equinox]

This, too, sir:

By the way, when farside22 pointed out how Nobody Special did not vote Jack when he said he was lying, I immediately thought that Jack must have told him about his gambit in their private communication. If it had been me making the gambit, I would definitely have warned my god in advance and gotten him to cooperate. Jack would be a fool not to do so. Nobody Special, has Jack explained to you anything about a gambit?

[Nobody Special]

Jack said nothing to me about a gambit. His sole communication to me consisted of a (likely fake) roleclaim. Three words (yes, I misremembered it as two. I left out an indefinite article).

If I wasn't Immortal, I'd be voting jack. As it is, he's hardly worth it. At the moment.

I'd rather do this:

VOTE: Zang

C'mon, Zang. Come out of hiding.

[SpyreX]

If I wasn't Immortal, I'd be voting jack. As it is, he's hardly worth it. At the moment.

Ohh riddlemaster give me a sign on how this works.

[Nobody Special]

Simple. He's stirring the pot and throwing suspicion on me. If I were lynchable, I'd OMGUS. Since I can't die, he's not worth the vote.

[SpyreX]

Soooo even with the "lies" AND me being "worse" the right answer is a lurker vote?

[Nobody Special]

It was a choice between the two of you. He's lurking more than you are.

Would you rather I vote you? I can, you know.

[Equinox]

Simple. He's stirring the pot and throwing suspicion on me. If I were lynchable, I'd OMGUS. Since I can't die, he's not worth the vote.

I... I... What?

Do you or do you not think Jack is scum? I'm looking at your isolated posts, and all I see is you being wishy-washy. One would think you'd be the one with a stronger read on Jack than the rest of us what with the line of communication and all.

I just saw Zang, which makes this the third time (that I know of) he's logged on since his Me=Weird vote without saying anything. SPEAK.