Mini 1096 - Seinfeld Mafia (Game Over)

[LimMePls]

im here V/LA for a couple of days, i graduate with my masters on friday the 17 so after that i should have lot of time.
honestly i will have some time between now and then but im not promising a timetable.

School, bah! You know you want to play mafia with us instead. Surrender to your temptation. It'll be pretty good. I should know.

Vote Haschel Cedricson

He knows why.

[LimMePls]

Katsuki, MoI, LMP and charter are scum. calling it now.

How many people is Untrod Tripod telling the truth about here? Any guesses?

You want us to guess how many of his guesses were accurate? 1.

Do I win?

[LimMePls]

LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH!

Unvote
Vote: Magna

Here's a nice change of pace for you Magna, you can be lynched D1 instead of NK'ed N1!

[LimMePls]

I’m watching you closely Mr. Lannister … but not as closely as LMP.

Why are you watching LMP closely? You don't really mention him otherwise.

I second this question. And confirm my vote. I'm thinking MoI and Untrod right now.

[LimMePls]

MOI is still scum. UT is still probably his buddy.

So you are confirming the vote you made on the basis that it would be better to lynch me D1 than have me NKed N1?

I love that.

Yes. I'm confirming my vote. I bet you do.

[LimMePls]

MOI is right re: Katsuki in LOTR/Castlevania. It's the way it was presented in a "disavow any bad things I do based on flavor, cause I don't know the flavor" way.

Katsuki, MoI, LMP and charter are scum. calling it now.

now this is a wagon I can get behind. unvote LMP, vote Magnaface

This just goes towards supporting my wild stab at LMP being scum

Hey look … scum motivation sighted!!
UNVOTE: Charter
VOTE: Untrod

MOI is not the lynch. When UT flips scum, MOI may be the lynch. UT is definitely flipping scum.

Unvote
Vote: Untrod Tripod

I also don't like raj's reasoning. Or KMD putting me on his scum list with no explanation, but I'm starting to get used to that. By that, I mean people calling me scum but giving no reason for doing so. Seems to be a common trend recently.

[LimMePls]

LMP, how is that an Untrod-Magna connection? I see stronger connections between Untrod-Charter, Untrod-Rajdjfhadskfjhdasjf, and even Untrod-LMP than Untrod-Magna.

UT says his "list".
UT takes the first opportunity to wagon a member of the list (saying "this is a wagon I can get behind").
Magna attacks UT.

I think there is some distancing going on here. As I said above, based on my reading of the situation, I think UT is scum and 1 of the people on his list was also scum. I think MOI is a great candidate for that 1 person. But that's a poor reason to lynch MOI, and my MOI vote was mainly just a reaction fishing/RVS-wagon vote anyways.

I wouldn't be surprised at a UT-MOI-raj-+1 scum team.

[LimMePls]

Why is Magna a "great candidate" any more than Charter or Kat? Or from our point of view, better than you?

Don't let me forget that I have input on this, but I want your answer first.

Because the interactions I'm noting between them look like distancing? I thought I just said this.

[LimMePls]

At least I came out and specifically said that I'm not going to give up my reasons yet. You going to do the same as regards LMP?

I’m not giving my reasons as of yet. My motivation is greatly different from yours, which was basically to disguise your method of moving out of RVS by wagonning for no reason.

I'm sorry, that is incorrect. Don't presume that you know my motivation(s); "wagoning for no reason" was not one of them.

Everyone losing their nerve, get back on the Magna-wagon!

What is your take on UT?

[LimMePls]

I wouldn't be surprised at a UT-MOI-raj-+1 scum team.

Or maybe UT-MOI-Katsuki-charter. Which would be UT's list minus me, plus UT.

What are the odds that:

obviously I'm bussing all three of my scumbuddies. The trick is figuring out which one is the townie

was truth, banking on the WIFOM of it to be discounted? I think lynching UT is the first step in finding out. His scummy actions are enough to swing him, particularly where he tries to smear me, but doesn't vote me. The goldmine of data from his lynch only makes it more win.

[LimMePls]

UT says his "list".
UT takes the first opportunity to wagon a member of the list (saying "this is a wagon I can get behind").
Magna attacks UT.

Are you saying my statement about Untrod is not a valid scum-tell?

No, I'm saying you used the opportunity to distance from a guy who was distancing from you. The whole interaction just looks scummy to me. I am open to the possibility of being wrong, hence my "UT is the wagon today, not MOI" position.

Please provide the scum-tells you are relying on to qualify me as a great candidate for scum.

I don't know how else to say this. Your behavior, IN RELATION TO UT'S, looks like distancing to me. If you want a better explanation than that, I don't got it.

And if you can’t support it other than to say it is distancing please indicate how you can differentiate from Town and Scum players attacking Untrod?

I can't. Which is why UT is first. We'll go from there.

@KMD: This should answer your questions too. The interactions between UT and MOI look scummy to me. UT's was distancing, and MOI was all too happy to return the favor. The whole thing just doesn't look right to me. Especially UT finding the opportunity to vote every player that was on that list he posted (except Katsuki, yet). I'm pretty sure UT is scum, and one of the players on the list is scum. I have the unique perspective of knowing it isn't me, and I don't really see a reason why it's charter. MOI is my top pick for that position.

Comments after I read through this game later today. My wish would be for MOI posts to turn into one-liners, but I don't think that is likely to happen

anytime soon

ever.

Fixed.

[LimMePls]

Katsuki trying to downplay UT's list is fascinating.

[LimMePls]

Maybe because mine was just making light of the fact that you always RVS saying "He knows why" and was therefore obviously not worth comment?

[LimMePls]

*taps foot waiting for UT*

[LimMePls]

I'm a little surprised by the amount of hand-wringing that's happening over my OBVIOUSLY NOT SERIOUS "scum list" that was ON PAGE 1. Seriously guys. I named 1/3 of the player list and proceeded to try to bandwagon ourselves out of RVS. That was it. It seems to have worked, too. LMP's tunneling on me is really weird. Seriously dude, why do you think that my list was based on anything seriously. I announced in that post my willingness to bandwagon four people on the basis of their "obviously" scumminess. Then I voted for some of them. We got some reactions and now we're solidly out of RVS. MoI and charter reacted pretty null or townish to the accusations, but LMP's continuing to call my "list" is really weird. I can't see any pro-town reason to push me that hard on that basis. It looks to me like he's trying to appear like he's scumhunting by attacking an RVS vote that could possibly be construed as bussing (especially if one of my "picks" flips scum later). Also he's scum.

I'm going to say this one more time: my list was just a group of players to push to get us out of RVS. There was no reasoning behind it. Stop grasping at straws.

vote LMP

UT is either VT to the extreme, or scum. I can't decide which.

Either way, I want him lynched.

[LimMePls]

Alright, I'm game.

Unvote
Vote: MOI

L-1. Claim.

[LimMePls]

Someone be willing to hammer. The unwillingness to claim is hilarious. I am sure if I go and look through my recent games with MOI I can find some with him asking for claims at L-1.

[LimMePls]

Can somebody give me a one-sentence summary of the case on MOI? Because after rereading the two, LMP comes off as much scummier than MOI, and the whole "somebody please hammer" thing above doesn't help at all.

and no i wont be answering any other questions that i havnt answered already. if you really are at L-1 you are in no position of giving me ultimatums and i feel most of the attacks are scum driven.

This is scummy as hell, and more people need to reread your posts.

Do not misrepresent me. I said "someone be willing to hammer" to get the claim. I didn't say "someone hammer". The difference is massive. I was most certainly NOT calling for a claimless hammer.

[LimMePls]

@LMP

– Where’s that completed game evidence that shows I’ve asked for someone to claim immediately after putting them at L-1? Were you just blowing smoke to fluff up your ‘position’?

Nope. The small amount of mafia time I've had has been used getting replacements for my game and catching up in the ones I've missed. I haven't forgotten it, and I will be looking. I fully admit that I may be wrong, but having played with you ALOT recently, I'm pretty sure I'll find a game where you ask for a claim at L-1.

[LimMePls]

ITT Kmd goes for the "no way would I buddy my partner that closely" play.

[LimMePls]

@MOD: I'm going to have Limited Access from now through Christmas. I will check and post as often as I'm able.

[LimMePls]

I haven't forgotten about this game, but the wifi at my inlaws that I used to bum from a surrounding neighbor is no longer available. It looks like there isn't really much to catchup on.

@Mod: Gonna need V/LA until next monday. Chances are I could probably post once or twice more between now and then. If you feel you need to replace me, I understand

V/LA acknowledged.

[LimMePls]

I'm back in town, I will be catching up on this and all my other games ASAP. Thanks for the consideration while I traveled home for the holidays!

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: charter

Pretty sure this is the right play.

[LimMePls]

Charter's play makes me think he is scum. In particular:

Wow, Fonz boils the magna wagon down to "magna didn't claim when at L-1" which I'm fairly certain is not a reason anyone is voting him, and ignores all the other reasons people are voting him. Then he completely ignores the extreme scummatude of BV. Then he votes LMP saying that he's a better wagon than Raj (which is true) but doesn't say why at all.

Gonna have to reread peanutman after this.

this post.

[LimMePls]

Well, I have the unique perspective of knowing I'm not scum. So yeah...

[LimMePls]

Well, to put it another way... that post you flagged up as scummy, he defended the Magna wagon and said I was strawmanning it by calling it built on utter shit. Don't get me wrong,

I

think it's utter shit, but if you agree with me, then WHY. THE. FUCK. were you on it in the first place? If you believe the wagon was decent, then what was it that was scummy about Charter's post?

Actually, same question to Charter. You said LMP was a better wagon than Raj. Why? His play has been very similar to yours.

His statement about my wagon vs raj is what bothers me. As far as I can recall, I don't remember charter ever saying anything about me being scummy, or being a better wagon than raj, so the statement seemed strange to me. The "IGEMEOY" "threat" at the end just made it more scummy looking to me.

I feel pretty sure that one of the player's on UT's list at the beginning of the game is scum with UT. Call it gut, but I just get that feeling. I was pretty sure it was MOI. charter is making me think it might be him.

I'm down with lynching UT too.

[LimMePls]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

[LimMePls]

I'm not sure I agree that town-MOI would never make a post like that. For one, i don't see how you can possibly substantiate a claim like that.

[LimMePls]

Still liking my vote.

[LimMePls]

Still liking my vote.

that one you never provided any backing for?

You have to be kidding, right? I've only stated my reasons to lynch you like a million times in this game.

Seriously, are you even paying attention?

[LimMePls]

I'm going to do a complete reread, and see if I can get engaged with this game. Infodump/Wallpost will be incoming.

[LimMePls]

UT's scum team post. I still think if UT is scum in this game, there are buddies on this list.
This post is why I'm suspicious of his buddies. I think UT is certainly the sort of person to say something like this and be serious. The fact that he included "EVERYONE JUMP ON THE LMP WAGON NAO" when I know I'm town is what makes me pretty sure he is scum, and some of the players on his list are scum with him.
@Charter: What was horrid about your entrance?
In this post UT wants to turn my joke into a scummy action. And then doesn't vote me for it.
This post is the one that made me think that MOI is most likely buddy of UT's. @MOI: What are your current feelings on UT?
In this post UT tries to deflect MOI's opinion of him by buddying him and saying MOI wasn't OMGUSing (newsflash: No one thought he was). Another post that makes me think that UT/MOI team is correct. MOI distances and UT responds by giving MOI a town-read. This is either scum-town or scum-scum interaction.
MOI tries here and again here to cast my vote in the worst possible light to then dismiss it. Yes, I originally put it on as a RVS bandwagon vote, but the interactions with UT made it much more awesome, and it was THOSE interactions that made me confirm my vote. Trying to paint the vote as just a "pointless RVS vote" is scummy.
HC gives me town vibes in this post.
All the reasons I want UT lynched. <--- @UT: This one's for you.
In this post KMD unvotes UT right after I vote UT and moves his vote to the 'mislynch-of-the-day(TM)'. Then tries to downplay MOI-UT connections.
KMD continues with the sideways MOI defense.
Raj implicates MOI and KMD.
Another reason I want UT lynched.
Here MOI claims I dodged a question I never dodged.
MOI continues bussing UT.
I find this post interesting because here peanut tries to tie me to MOI, and votes MOI. If MOI is scum, peanut may be a buddy for this post, trying to get on the bandwagon and at the same time line up a mislynch by setting up a false connectin.
Glaring bandwagon vote from Talitha after some hardcore lurking, and it happens to be on the mislynch-of-the-day(TM), with "I think raj could be scum" as the only explanation, and very wishy-washy statements towards the other important matters of the game. MAJOR SCUM POINTS.

LMP, ok.
By the way, the thing I noticed was that Magna and Kat were the first two to post and made Untrod's list. LMP was Untrod's vote and made the list. I was curious about where the hell Charter's name got dragged in from, but he's first on the playerlist, so scratch that theory.

I somehow missed this before. This is a really interesting observation. So UT's list might actually be completely fabricated on the spot. Taking this into advisement.

**POST IS TOO BIG, DOING THIS IN TWO BATCHES**

[LimMePls]

This post is interesting in the following ways: Calls Kmd and peanut town, although Kmd has been posting that peanut is scum, Notes Tal's weak entrance to the game, but does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it, lines up MOI->LMP lynch chain while calling me and MOI "SCUMBUDDYZ4LYFE" despite the fact that, unless I'm misremembering, MOI and I have never been scum together. I find this chain of MOI->LMP interesting because Kat isn't the first person to push this, peanut did it earlier (see above), and Kat calls peanut town in this very same post.
When Kmd tries to get Katsuki to explain why Peanut gets town Katsuki gives the very underwhelming:

Overall comments.

If Tal-Katsuki exists, this post is one of the reasons. What I find interesting here is Tal's agreeing with Kat about "Raj & LMP", both of which I know are mislynches, and Tal's "let's discuss why lynch MOI before LMP".
MOI asserts "No, since I'm not scum. But don't let that pesky little fact get in the way of your rhetoric." On what universe is MOI's alignment a fact to anyone but MOI? Talk about rhetoric...
UT's calling my reaction to his list weird but not MOI's, even though the two reactions are similar, is noted.
Tal continues to be as worthless as possible, while trying to appear to be helping with useless questions and "I'm interested now in...".
More complete lack of contribution and fence-sitting from Talitha.
In this post UT picks up prod, unvotes me without voting elsewhere, makes some completely worthless theory statements, attacks Kmd with complete crap, and then re-lurks. UT needs lynching.
Once peanut realizes he won't get a claim from MOI, he unvotes. Without another vote, just the usual scum unvoter's "need to reread" bullshit. SUPER SCUMMY.
Kmd is town.
ML's peanut observations are spot on.
bv distances from the Raj mislynch, while leaving enough wiggle room to vote it if needed.
Then gets on.
The hypocrisy of Peanut's slot calling me out for wanting MOI's claim, when peanut made THIS POST is hilarious. peanut/The Fonz is scum.
charter is spot on about peanut.
I'm retarded.
Tal says "A few random observations" as if her whole entire play isn't summed up with "A few random observations".
Katsuki's vote on me with the impending Raj lynch while saying "Fine with raj lynch" is scummy as hell.
"Oh he is L1" from Katsuki after UT rightly points out Katuski's above terrible post. Followed by Katsuki hammer. This slot is scum.
Following the hammer, but before the flip Tal is "relieved the day appears to be over". Scummy.
Kmd nails Tal.
Katsuki tries to shift focus after the flip to MOI's reaction to the hammer along with crap "this is a post town-MOI would NEVER make". Complete BS.

TL;DR

-Kmd's observation that points out that UT's list was the first 4 non-UT names in the thread is compelling evidence that it was completely dreamed up on the spot.
-This also mitigates MOI hate a fair bit.
-Peanut/TheFonz is scum.
-Katsuki is scum.
-Tal is probably scum.
-UT would be an AWESOME vig shot. SMOKE 'EM IF YOU GOT 'EM.
-Jahudo/bv slot needs further evaluation.

TOWN
Kmd4390
charter
MacavityLock
Haschel Cedricson
MagnaofIllusion
Jahudo
Untrod Tripod
Talitha
Katsuki
The Fonz
SCUM

Unvote
Vote: The Fonz

[LimMePls]

@Tal: Your vote wasn't the first on Raj, Kmd had actually voted him first. I didn't realize that he had unvoted between that and when you voted, but my point still stands. Your suspicions of Raj were crap and were basically just sheeping what others where saying to him.

LynchMePls

I think UT is certainly the sort of person to say something like this and be serious.

Saying he's capable of using calling himself scum as scum and saying he would actively do it are two different things. You still haven't made an argument why he would be motivated to do it in this case, unless you have a good meta on him for doing this alot. Because I think its just as likely for his comments to be a joke and not true at all, so its 100% null tell for me. Your insistence that this is a good scum tell is confusing.

The fact that he included "EVERYONE JUMP ON THE LMP WAGON NAO" when I know I'm town is what makes me pretty sure he is scum

Again, why would you jump to this conclusion? Why are you so sure he wasn't making a joke? And I don't know why you need to include the "I know I'm town" part.

Did you read anything I just posted? I'm not "so sure", I'm in fact the opposite of that now. Those comments at the top were while I was doing my reread. Read the tl;dr.

@MOI: Most of that stuff you didn't like was earlier in my reread. My opinion on the UT/MOI business has changed substantially. So I don't really know what you want me to say in regards to this shit you just pointed out. And you are absolutely correct that it is hypocritical to be opposed to others drawing a chain when I was doing the same thing. THAT SAID, and I know this means pretty much dick all to the rest of you, but I KNOW I'm not scum, so obviously I see chains involving me as shit.

I'm perfectly willing to admit my play in this game has been complete trash. Hence my attempt just now to reread the game and get a grip on it. Here is a peach offering for you:

Unvote
Vote: Katsuki

In return, I'd like you to comment on the other stuff in my reread that DOESN'T involve you. Specifically peanut/Fonz and Tal.

[LimMePls]

and obviously by peach I meant peace. LOLZ.

[LimMePls]

All the LMP hate has definitely NOT dissipated. I love how you can say all the hate has dissipated, and in the same post say "Larger wagon is a go" and vote me. Seems pretty contradictory.

Flail more for us though Katsuki, it'll make your lynch both easier and more satisfying.

[LimMePls]

KMD theorized that MoI and Katsuki were on there for posting first and second, LMP was on there for being UT's vote, and charter might have been on there for being first in the player list.
You misinterpreted that to mean they were the first 4 non-UT people in the thread, which just isn't true. Even if you meant to say KMD's actual theory looked true, how does that make your theory look any less possible? You thought he would do that kind of thing as scum (IE: call himself scum and bus a buddy). Since UT clearly was not confined to picking the first four people that posted in the game thread, isn't your theory still valid in your eye?

I went back and double checked this myself. Jahudo is correct. KMD’s ISO 7 is where he makes that statement. More scum-points for LMP.

This is BULLSHIT. For one, it wasn't the first 4 people that posted, it was the first 4 non-UT names in the game, my name was a RVS vote in the game. Secondly, OF COURSE if there is evidence that UT's list was conjured by some method other than using his scum team list it makes my view on his list completely different.

@LMP

– Hey look you are at L-1. This is the point where yousay that you should claim despite not having anyone suggest they will hammer, right? I expect to see your claim in your next post.

Claim: Jacopo Peterson, VT.

Breadcrumb here:

im here V/LA for a couple of days, i graduate with my masters on friday the 17 so after that i should have lot of time.
honestly i will have some time between now and then but im not promising a timetable.

School, bah! You know you want to play mafia with us instead. Surrender to your temptation. It'll be pretty good. I should know.

Which was made to look like this Peterman quote:

I don't think I'll ever be able to forget Susie--ahhh. And most of all, I will never, forget that one night. Working late on the catalogue. Juuust the two of us. And we surrendered to temptation.

And it was Pretty Good.

[LimMePls]

@Mac: Why not? Especially when it comes at no cost?

@The Fonz: It's true that my crumb has no bearing on my alignment. But since I'm claiming and I made a crumb, I'm pointing it out.

[LimMePls]

^^That's why I did it. At worst, people will think I was setting up a safeclaim. At best it shows a pro-town intention by putting my cards on the table. If people were going to lynch me, they'd do so anyways, so I see no town downside.

[LimMePls]

LynchMePls (5) - The Fonz, Talitha, Katsuki, Jahudo, Untrod Tripod

At least 2 scum on this wagon.

[LimMePls]

rajrhcpfreak (7) - Talitha, Haschel Cedricson, MagnaofIllusion, Kmd4390, Untrod Tripod, bv310, Katsuki

2-3 here. As for the MOI wagon, in the VC's I can only find 5, so I had to go and find it. At it's largest it was:

MagnaofIllusion (5) - Katsuki, MacavityLock, charter, rajrhcpfreak, peanutman

And then I voted to put it to 6. Eliminating myself and raj, we get the group {Katsuki, MacavityLock, charter, peanutman}. No more than 2 of those are scum. I think both Katsuki and peanut/Fonz.

[LimMePls]

I like bulletpoints, Katsuki. Agree with you on Raj & LMP... but why the hurry? No deadlines and if you truly want stronger stances from me, you'll allow me the time to form them. For example, let's discuss why lynch MOI before LMP? I do not see obvious connection between the two, and find LMP the most suspect of the two.

And, what Kmd said.

This post doesn't seem to indicate a scummy read of Katsuki.

Re: current bandwagon. My motto (stolen from mith) is "lynch or lynch not, there is no claim". I.e. In the decision to lynch, the claim shouldn't matter. Personally I'm not going to vote MOI at this point - it's possible he's scum, but I don't feel it in my bones. And I would rather lynch Raj, LMP, peanut, or bv.

This post lists 4 people Tal would rather lynch than MOI, and none of them are Katsuki.

A few random observations...

- Something feels weird with the charter-MOI interactions
- I like the new-improved peanutman

- I miss Katsuki

- My head says lynching claimed townie Raj is the correct play. I'm wondering what the (thus far) lack of hammer says about his alignment. Don't know.
- I am tempted to sheep onto the Fonz's vote of LMP. Gut feeling that he is scum.
- charter: you say LMP is a better vote than Raj... why? ..same Q as The Fonz asked.

(My bold) Seems to like Katsuki just fine.

I'm still looking mostly at LMP for my vote today, but because I don't think I've played with him or Katsuki at before (apologies if I'm wrong about that) I'm interested in the opinions of people who have played with both of them.

First mention of Katsuki that could be in any way construed to be critical of Katsuki. But it isn't, it's about as non-committal as possible.

It may however change to Katsuki shortly. Again, the problem of so many suspects, only one vote.

Not a single explanation for this in Tal's ISO. Not 1.

I think I still want LMP deads, but in the meantime

unvote: LMP
vote: Katsuki

Tal is either bussing a partner or manuevering for more claims + buddying the Katsuki-scum contingent. Tal is scum.

If I had to call a scum team right now it would be Katsuki, Tal, Fonz, 1 of {UT, Jahudo, MOI}. Obviously calling the whole team isn't very reliable at this point, but since the possibility exists that I won't be here for long, I'm putting out what I've got while I'm still here.

[LimMePls]

EBWOP: ALL OF THOSE QUOTES ARE TAL AND NOT KATSUKI!

@MOD: Can you fix those quote tags that read Katsuki to Tal? If not, I understand.

Done

[LimMePls]

^^I find it disconcerting that you can both ask "What's this Katsuki wagon about now?" and at the same time point out in your two @Katsuki statements some of the reasons for the Katsuki wagon. What's up with that?

[LimMePls]

Cause she's scum? amirite?

[LimMePls]

So now your claim is that your Katsuki vote was a pressure vote?

[LimMePls]

Why is my justification not particularly plausible (in your opinion)? You've never run someone up to L-1 then unvoted to give yourself time to think about whether you want to follow through with the lynch? You've never seen town do it?

Nice spin job, but you didn't just unvote to give yourself more time, you unvoted and voted the other wagon.

[LimMePls]

@The Fonz: I see no reason scum Tal wouldn't unvote me and vote Katsuki-scum or Katsuki-town.

[LimMePls]

Yup, really.

[LimMePls]

Any reason you feel the need to defend Katsuki's behavior as softly as possible Jahudo?

[LimMePls]

On pg13 right now.

Just saying that LMP and MOI are obvbuddies.

And MOI's case on me thus far has been virtually

"Kat is playing like how Kat always plays hence Kat scum"

.

Multiple times now you've made this assertion and you've offered 0 evidence to support it. Please explain how you are reaching this conclusion.

Also, you're boiling down of the points against you to "This is my playstyle" is both A) wrong and B) scumtastic.

[LimMePls]

^^Well it's there. ISO UT. Then claim.

[LimMePls]

I've done the best I can. I recognize that my early game play wasn't stellar, but since I got back into this game I feel like I've provided very good information for town to use with my flip. I'm at peace getting hammered.

As I've said before, I know that putting out a whole team is unreliable with 0 flips, but if I had to guess, the scum are:

Katsuki
The Fonz
Talitha
1 of {Jahudo/MOI/UT}

In that order for scumminess.

Also, after my flip, remember this:

I think the most important thing here is that the chances of both wagons being town is almost 0%.

[LimMePls]

That's 0 scum flips btw.

[LimMePls]

The only reason I wasn't voting him was because it would be a hammer and we were waiting for Kat's input first. I want my vote to reflect what I think, and that's that a LMP lynch beats a Kat lynch. Also, this may be a stretch, but if we got someone willing to lynch LMP before Kat could claim, we'd lynch a vanilla rather than forcing my town read to claim.

This also makes me slightly nervous of Kmd/Kat. Kmd has been a fairly high town read of mine, but I'm certainly not right about everything at the moment.

[LimMePls]

(2) LynchMePlease – First calls Katsuki scum in 286 by first trying to find scum pairings that make sense for him. I have no idea what he’s calling scummy in the first link of that post. Not being hard enough on Talitha? That’s a stretch for a townie to start thinking Katsuki and Tally are scum together without a flip first. Claiming that Katsuki calling Peanut town while they both go after MoI and LMP indicates a scum strategy? Another big stretch because those kinds of scenarios are so so common. Everything is not black and white. Not everyone who shares an opinion must be connected. Yet LMP tries to force connections when they favor him. That is why I’m voting him. It’s a very opportunistic tactic that town don’t use to make their cases.

I find it hilarious that you say you have no idea what I'm calling scummy, when that was by far one of the posts I gave the most attention to during my reread summary posts. Lets just take the whole thing apart. Apparently I have to hold your hand when I'm making points:

Comments:

- UT hop off MOI wagon feels odd. I do not get the charter vote. Noting this for future reference.
- I do not get all the shenanigans going about with UT's list. It basically consisted of the first four names that appeared in this game (MOI, myself, charter via MOI vote, and LMP via discussion).

Players who have attack said list and hung on: LMP

- Ooo look at rajr hop onto MOI wagon in #51. Bus more.
- Rajr #60 is weak.
- #69: Cute, both MOI and LMP are calling UT each other's scumbuddy.
Continuation on this point, both are throwing a shitload of smokescreens at each other as of the most recent page.
- LMP is being unusually evasive thus far.
- LMP #81 shows how he is further analyzing what was a random list from UT. Both he and MOI are paying FAR too much attention to it.
- Talitha's entrance is VERY underwhelming. Takes rather weak stances, and ends with soft vote on rajr. HMM.
- PEANUTMAN IS TOWN BY VIRTUE OF #85

Oh, and KMD is probably town as well.

SUMMARY: MOI LYNCH IS NEEDED ASAP. THEN LMP. THOSE TWO ARE SCUMBUDDYZ4LYFE.


p.s. Let me know if the bulletpoints are easy or hard to read, thanks.

Problems I have with this post:

• Kmd and peanut argued back and forth pretty profusely, and IMO Kmd had the better of it. Yet calls Kmd/peanut town/town with no explanation for why. How does Katsuki-town know this isn't town/scum or even scum/scum? This is the sort of statement that looks to come from an informed minority.
  
• Calls Talitha's entrance "VERY underwhelming". Yet, Katsuki does not a) question Talitha to try and get more from Tal, or b) probe Talitha on this matter any further. And, to the best of my recollection, hasn't commented on this again AT ALL.
  
• First appearence of Katsuki's MOI/LMP "SCUMBUDDYZ4LYFE" accusation, despite the fact that MOI and I have NEVER been scum together before, let alone in a game with Katsuki. So how exactly is Katsuki making this determination?

You may disagree with me all you want, but I fail to see how this means I have no reasons to be voting Katsuki.

He also infers (I guess) that Katsuki secretly knew raj was at L-1 but decided to vote LMP first anyway. Hard to prove, or even guess what is more likely. At this point LMP is just padding his case with anything he can find, instead of rightly saying this is more null than anything. Or if he really wants to go there, reasoning why this is scummy.

If by "secretly knew" you mean I trust that Katsuki can count to 7 then yes, I "secretly knew" this. And yes I'm calling it scummy, and I thought it was obvious why. Scum love to jump on another bandwagon if a mislynch is going to happen without them. I don't think I need to explain why blatant distancing from a mislynch is scummy, but I seem to need to hold your hand. Check this game, in particular my case against PranaDevil (distancing from CoolDog mislynch D2) for an example of scum intentionally avoiding a mislynch they know is going to happen without their vote.

Then LMP criticizes how Katsuki goes after another of his suspects after the lynch. Yet LMP doesn’t explain why that point is bad.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Quotes please.

After that vote post, LMP doesn’t say much about Katsuki. No questioning in fact. What he does instead is try and pair people to Katsuki, set up additional lynches. This makes me think he’s not voting Katsuki to get a better read on him, confirm to himself that Kat is scum. Instead it looks like he’s using the pressure on Katsuki and transferring it to other people. Artificially boosting their own spotlight without continuing an investigation on Katsuki. IE: not trying to find scum in Katsuki but trying to make scum out of Tally, Fonz, etc.

This is flat out a LIE. Here are DIRECT pieces of evidence refuting this statement:

All the LMP hate has definitely NOT dissipated. I love how you can say all the hate has dissipated, and in the same post say "Larger wagon is a go" and vote me. Seems pretty contradictory.

Flail more for us though Katsuki, it'll make your lynch both easier and more satisfying.

On pg13 right now.

Just saying that LMP and MOI are obvbuddies.

And MOI's case on me thus far has been virtually

"Kat is playing like how Kat always plays hence Kat scum"

.

Multiple times now you've made this assertion and you've offered 0 evidence to support it. Please explain how you are reaching this conclusion.

Also, you're boiling down of the points against you to "This is my playstyle" is both A) wrong and B) scumtastic.

Furthermore, I'm at L-1 and in all likelihood the lynch today, so OF COURSE I'm putting my thoughts out there about everyone, that's what townies do when they know they are going to die. Are you actually saying I should be laser focused on Katsuki to the exclusion of Fonz, Tal, ect? Isn't that what scum would do (push as hard as possible at the other bandwagon purely for survivial instincts)? I can't believe my putting out my opinion on as many people as possible before my lynch is actually scummy in your eyes.

Now, on to some other problems with your post:

LMP is the one who is on that wagon for all the wrong reasons.

**SNIP**

(5) Haschel Cedricson – Calls LMP scummier than MoI in 140 for no reason. Calls Katsuki scummier than LMP in 362 for no reason. There’s no pausing to consider the scumminess of LMP so I have a hard time believing his read on LMP at all. This is a bad vote.

This seems contradictory to me. Why is my vote the worst, the one that is "for all the wrong reasons" yet here you claim HC has provided NO REASONS, while you simply disagree with my reasons. Isn't reasons you disagree with less scummy than no reasons at all? Why or why not?

Lastly, I find this whole post rather interesting considering this from me:

Any reason you feel the need to defend Katsuki's behavior as softly as possible Jahudo?

Is this post your response to my question?

[LimMePls]

good luck town.

[LimMePls]

I love that UT hammers me when I'm in the middle of producing what could be valuable content with Jahudo and we have no deadline pressures. Very pro-town UT.

[LimMePls]

TOWN
MacavityLock
charter
Kmd4390
MagnaofIllusion
Haschel Cedricson
Untrod Tripod
Jahudo

bv310

The Fonz

peanutman

Talitha
Katsuki
SCUM

I'd wager at least one of my high up town reads is scum and probably one of my bigger scum reads is town. This is the best I got guys, hope my flip helps some.

[LimMePls]

Calls Talitha's entrance "VERY underwhelming". Yet, Katsuki does not a) question Talitha to try and get more from Tal, or b) probe Talitha on this matter any further. And, to the best of my recollection, hasn't commented on this again AT ALL.

It looks like an observation to me, not a suspicion. The only question I would have for him on this is what he thinks of Talitha now, but I would not expect him to pressure her if he didn't have enough confidence to give a suspicion.

If you actually believed this point you would have been probing me sooner than today:

-Jahudo/bv slot needs further evaluation.

By your own logic you did a scummy thing!

This is very disingenuous. For one, I've actually been doing other things, while Katsuki has been lurking. So, if I forgot to follow up on one thing I said earlier because I've been doing 5+ other things, that isn't such a big deal, but Katsuki is using statements like the one I brought up as a smoke screen while doing NOTHING. The difference is massive.

Arguing with you why I shouldn't be the lynch at this point is less than worthless for obvious reasons. Good luck town.

[LimMePls]

- If Katsuki was scummy for trying to distance from the raj wagon by voting you, why did he continue to not distance from the raj wagon by saying it was still a good lynch? By your logic he would have thought the mislynch was going to happen without him, so he wouldn't need to say anything more about the raj wagon good or bad. I see this as a hole in your argument.

Did you read the link I sent? Scum voting another wagon near deadline while having said "that other wagon is good" in reference to the mislynch is EXACTLY what the scum in that instance did. This question is ridiculous.

Any reason why you didn't explain this in the first place?

I don't think I need to explain why blatant distancing from a mislynch is scummy

[LimMePls]

Waiting for a flippy flip but I don't see how Katsuki's comment about Tally was a smoke screen? That's a new explanation I think. Does anyone else see it that way and can explain it?

Scum voting another wagon near deadline while having said "that other wagon is good" in reference to the mislynch is EXACTLY what the scum in that instance did.

Yes but in order to compare these two situations we need to know that you are also town. If Katsuki picked a scum wagon over the town wagon then it isn't really distancing from a mislynch as much as picking the right lynch.

You should avoid burden of proof arguments.

I KNOW I'M TOWN! I wasn't making a burden of proof argument, I was making an observation from my point of view. That post was from my reread, and it was an observation. YOU have asked what I meant from it, and so I explained what I meant. I never said you all had to believe my point, but I KNEW the situations where the same.

[LimMePls]

For the record, re The Fonz @everyone else: I TOLD YOU SO. Tal too. Good lord they were so obv.

[LimMePls]

TOWN
MacavityLock
charter
Kmd4390
MagnaofIllusion
Haschel Cedricson
Untrod Tripod
Jahudo

bv310

The Fonz

peanutman

Talitha
Katsuki
SCUM

I'd wager at least one of my high up town reads is scum and probably one of my bigger scum reads is town. This is the best I got guys, hope my flip helps some.

QF-mother-fucking-T

My early game was complete crap. I hate when people in game blame outside factors for their play, but in my case that was the problem. I would have felt like such a hypocrite though whining about it in game. First I was doing finals, and then I went on vacation and just didn't have time for the game. When I got back from vacation, I attempted to climb back into the game with my massive catchup, and nailed 2 scum in it, but nobody would listen because I'd been so... well awful early on. I'm guessing that's why I suddenly picked up a lot of traction from the scum.

@Kdub: Thanks again for the great game.

Grats scum.

[LimMePls]

^^agree with this.

Also Happy Scumday MOI!

[LimMePls]

And don't underestimate the power having 4 scum off the bat provides. The lack of a NK is daunting but Town absolutely needed any sort of flip of scum to really make solid relational tells. Also Day 1 a scum lynch would require 87.5% of the Town's votes with no scum bussing. Getting 87.5% of uniformed majority players to work in a unified manner is a pretty large task.

To expound on 652, this is the part in particular that is spot on. IMO D1 mislynch in this game (which is likely due to 87.5%) pretty much sealed the deal. It steamrolled much to quickly. On the flip side, D1 scum-lynch might have actually done the exact opposite.

In short, I think the setup is swingy.