Mini 1096 - Seinfeld Mafia (Game Over)

[Untrod Tripod]

Where the hell do you get 'I believe the claim' from? I accept that he breadcrumbed Jacopo Peterman, that doesn't mean he actually IS Jacopo Peterman. Hint: scum don't usually claim their own name.

For some reason, I read "accept the breadcrumb" as meaning "believe the breadcrumb". Evidently that's not what you meant. Fair enough.

[The Fonz]

Presumably you did think it would go at least some way toward making you look town, or why do it? I think it's a mildly protown sign, because it is

possible

the scum don't have safeclaims, or have fewer safeclaims than members. It just isn't close to being conclusive, and I don't think it balances out ridiculously scummy play and a VT claim.

Preview edit: Yeah, maybe it would have been clearer had I said 'acknowledge' rather than 'accept.'

[LimMePls]

^^That's why I did it. At worst, people will think I was setting up a safeclaim. At best it shows a pro-town intention by putting my cards on the table. If people were going to lynch me, they'd do so anyways, so I see no town downside.

[Kdub]

JERRY: Where is he already? He should've been out of work by now.
NEWMAN: Hey, you know this is kind of fun.
KRAMER: Yeah, maybe we oughta become private detectives.
JERRY: Yeah maybe you should.
KRAMER: Maybe I will.
NEWMAN: Yeah, me too.
JERRY: All right, what are you gonna say to him?
KRAMER: Just gonna find out if he's interested.
NEWMAN: Hey, hey maybe I should go with him?
JERRY: No, you stay in the car.
NEWMAN: Who made you the leader?
JERRY: All right Newman, one more peep out of you and you're out of the whole operation! There he is. He's going to that bar.
KRAMER: All right, I'm going in.
JERRY: Be careful Kramer.
NEWMAN: I've should've gone in with him.
JERRY: No, you stay here in the car. I may need you.
NEWMAN: What do you need me in the car for?
JERRY: I might need you to get me a soda.

Vote Count

charter (0) -
LynchMePls (5) - The Fonz, Talitha, Katsuki, Jahudo, Untrod Tripod
Katsuki (2) - MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -
Jahudo (1) - MacavityLock
Haschel Cedricson (0) -
Talitha (0) -
Untrod Tripod (1) - Kmd4390
Kmd4390 (1) - charter
MacavityLock (1) - Haschel Cedricson
Not Voting (0) -

11 votes available, 6 votes needed to lynch.

[LimMePls]

LynchMePls (5) - The Fonz, Talitha, Katsuki, Jahudo, Untrod Tripod

At least 2 scum on this wagon.

[The Fonz]

For the sake of comparison, how many scum would you guess at there having been on the Raj wagon day one? How about the MOI wagon? (I know that these aren't apples to apples comparisons, but I would still find the answer instructive).

[LimMePls]

rajrhcpfreak (7) - Talitha, Haschel Cedricson, MagnaofIllusion, Kmd4390, Untrod Tripod, bv310, Katsuki

2-3 here. As for the MOI wagon, in the VC's I can only find 5, so I had to go and find it. At it's largest it was:

MagnaofIllusion (5) - Katsuki, MacavityLock, charter, rajrhcpfreak, peanutman

And then I voted to put it to 6. Eliminating myself and raj, we get the group {Katsuki, MacavityLock, charter, peanutman}. No more than 2 of those are scum. I think both Katsuki and peanut/Fonz.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is BULLSHIT. For one, it wasn't the first 4 people that posted, it was the first 4 non-UT names in the game, my name was a RVS vote in the game. Secondly, OF COURSE if there is evidence that UT's list was conjured by some method other than using his scum team list it makes my view on his list completely different.

The only evidence there is happens to be inside Untrod’s head. Everything else is speculation, albeit speculation that makes more sense than some obscure scum gambit by UT.

@Mac: Why not? Especially when it comes at no cost?

Because most people crumb is to have evidence to point back to in the event they, as a PR, need to claim. A VT claim is pointless as it doesn’t support anything.

At this point I'd like to hear from everyone else not on LMP's wagon.

- @ Mac, KMD, Charter and Haschel

- Do any of you think LMP is a better lynch than Katsuki? If not please consider putting the pressure to Kats with your votes.

[MacavityLock]

@Mac: Why not? Especially when it comes at no cost?

Because most people crumb is to have evidence to point back to in the event they, as a PR, need to claim. A VT claim is pointless as it doesn’t support anything.

Yeah, that's where I was coming from.

At this point I'd like to hear from everyone else not on LMP's wagon.

- @ Mac, KMD, Charter and Haschel

- Do any of you think LMP is a better lynch than Katsuki? If not please consider putting the pressure to Kats with your votes.

Gut has Kats more scummy than LMP right now, but I should do a more complete read of both, which I'm afraid I won't get to until this weekend.

[Talitha]

I think I still want LMP deads, but in the meantime

unvote: LMP
vote: Katsuki

[charter]

Talitha, can you please answer the first question of 317?

Guess I can

unvote, vote Katsuki

[LimMePls]

I like bulletpoints, Katsuki. Agree with you on Raj & LMP... but why the hurry? No deadlines and if you truly want stronger stances from me, you'll allow me the time to form them. For example, let's discuss why lynch MOI before LMP? I do not see obvious connection between the two, and find LMP the most suspect of the two.

And, what Kmd said.

This post doesn't seem to indicate a scummy read of Katsuki.

Re: current bandwagon. My motto (stolen from mith) is "lynch or lynch not, there is no claim". I.e. In the decision to lynch, the claim shouldn't matter. Personally I'm not going to vote MOI at this point - it's possible he's scum, but I don't feel it in my bones. And I would rather lynch Raj, LMP, peanut, or bv.

This post lists 4 people Tal would rather lynch than MOI, and none of them are Katsuki.

A few random observations...

- Something feels weird with the charter-MOI interactions
- I like the new-improved peanutman

- I miss Katsuki

- My head says lynching claimed townie Raj is the correct play. I'm wondering what the (thus far) lack of hammer says about his alignment. Don't know.
- I am tempted to sheep onto the Fonz's vote of LMP. Gut feeling that he is scum.
- charter: you say LMP is a better vote than Raj... why? ..same Q as The Fonz asked.

(My bold) Seems to like Katsuki just fine.

I'm still looking mostly at LMP for my vote today, but because I don't think I've played with him or Katsuki at before (apologies if I'm wrong about that) I'm interested in the opinions of people who have played with both of them.

First mention of Katsuki that could be in any way construed to be critical of Katsuki. But it isn't, it's about as non-committal as possible.

It may however change to Katsuki shortly. Again, the problem of so many suspects, only one vote.

Not a single explanation for this in Tal's ISO. Not 1.

I think I still want LMP deads, but in the meantime

unvote: LMP
vote: Katsuki

Tal is either bussing a partner or manuevering for more claims + buddying the Katsuki-scum contingent. Tal is scum.

If I had to call a scum team right now it would be Katsuki, Tal, Fonz, 1 of {UT, Jahudo, MOI}. Obviously calling the whole team isn't very reliable at this point, but since the possibility exists that I won't be here for long, I'm putting out what I've got while I'm still here.

[LimMePls]

EBWOP: ALL OF THOSE QUOTES ARE TAL AND NOT KATSUKI!

@MOD: Can you fix those quote tags that read Katsuki to Tal? If not, I understand.

Done

[Jahudo]

This is BULLSHIT. For one, it wasn't the first 4 people that posted, it was the first 4 non-UT names in the game, my name was a RVS vote in the game. Secondly, OF COURSE if there is evidence that UT's list was conjured by some method other than using his scum team list it makes my view on his list completely different.

Oh so that's what you mean. I see now. So you're thinking is its too much of a coincidence to not be a coincidence? Has UT actually confirmed / denied this yet?

@UT: Have you confirmed / denied this yet?

------------

What's this Katsuki wagon about now? I know he's been vague lately, and pairing LMP and MoI seems premature. His raj hammer didn't raise any flags for what type of player I think he is.

The one thing I notice is that he gives more suspicion for LMP than MoI, but generally says MoI is a better lynch. I cannot follow his logic here.

@Katsuki: Where in 92 do you explain why MoI is scummier than LMP? There are points specific to LMP, and points again both MoI and LMP, but where are the points about just Moi?

@Katsuki again: Can you explain your super secret awesome scumtell in 258?? You didn't say anything specific when you regretted your hammer, when you voted MoI the next day, or when you made that post. So how would a town MoI write that post differently, or what about that post is scum MoI talking?

[LimMePls]

^^I find it disconcerting that you can both ask "What's this Katsuki wagon about now?" and at the same time point out in your two @Katsuki statements some of the reasons for the Katsuki wagon. What's up with that?

[Kmd4390]

Sorry guys, I've been having trouble getting myself interested in this game.

----------------

LMP, I don't think it's any kind of new info that Untrod's "scum list" in his . . . first post . . . was made up on the spot. My point wasn't that he is scummy for just kind of throwing names around. It was that Charter's name seemed to come from nowhere and the others didn't. I thought it may have been a connection, but I believe I was wrong.

----------------

Hold up.

Talitha.

You suspected Peanut. The Fonz replaces and the suspicion is gone. Now Jahudo comes in for BV and because he agrees with your stuff, you "like" him and vote LMP? This just looks too contrived for my taste.

----------------

Charter, that's your case? Really? That's it?

-----------------

Magna, I don't like either the LMP lynch or the Kat lynch.

----------------

Gotta go, but

Unvote, Vote Tally

to reflect my thoughts.

[The Fonz]

Hey Tally, mind explaining why you're willing to sit on LMP to L-1, but unvote after a freaking vanilla townie claim?

[LimMePls]

Cause she's scum? amirite?

[Talitha]

We have 4 scum in this game, right? I'm busy and want time to think whether LMP is one of them. Really couldn't care if it looks scummy. Katsuki needs pressure, current vote no brainer.

Busy atm, BBL.

[LimMePls]

So now your claim is that your Katsuki vote was a pressure vote?

[Talitha]

Working backwards...

LMP: Pressure votes don't work as well when you say "Oh hai, this is just a pressure vote". Of course it was. MoI has been begging for support. Katsuki is actively avoiding this game. MoI has played with Katsuki. MoI is near top of my townish list.

The Fonz: LMP has been very active past couple days and I haven't. Want time to read/think carefully. Also trying to decide what I think about the breadcrumb.

Kmd: It wasn't that Jahudo agreed with me. I was re-reading when Jahudo replaced in, made a couple notes and before I could post about it Jahudo posted almost the exact same thoughts. It's not proof he's town, but gave me good reason to believe he's looking at the game like I am.

Charter: Re #317. Yes. Despite the double negative my statement was very clear.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not much time at the moment ...

Just wanted to point out how fascinating (in a hmmm am I seeing scummy Inconsistency?) I am finding that Tal is catching all kinds of hell for her vote of Kats yet Charter has received not a peep.

Both hopped onto the wagon (which I heartily approve of, more people should) with a quick post after having previously expressed suspicion about Kats.

Yet only one is under fire.

[charter]

Charter: Re #317. Yes. Despite the double negative my statement was very clear.

What specifically did he do to reinforce your vote?

Just wanted to point out how fascinating (in a hmmm am I seeing scummy Inconsistency?) I am finding that Tal is catching all kinds of hell for her vote of Kats yet Charter has received not a peep.

Both hopped onto the wagon (which I heartily approve of, more people should) with a quick post after having previously expressed suspicion about Kats.

Yet only one is under fire.

Yet only one gave numerous other suspects shortly before switching, and only one was voting the other leading vote getter, and only one switched off that wagon full of steam and claimed townie to vote someone else.

[Talitha]

Just wanted to point out how fascinating (in a hmmm am I seeing scummy Inconsistency?) I am finding that Tal is catching all kinds of hell for her vote of Kats yet Charter has received not a peep.

Indeed.

What specifically did he do to reinforce your vote?

See my post #165 for a summary. On top of this he ignored my questions and refused to engage.

gave numerous other suspects shortly before switching

Bullshit - LMP's quote (above) is from day 1.

only one was voting the other leading vote getter

I suspect this is one key reason I'm being vilified.
The reaction was so strong I'm wondering if I unvoted scum to vote for town. I certainly detect an aroma of scum opportunism.

[Talitha]

In spite of my "there is no claim" mantra from earlier, I can't help thinking about LMP mixing up Peterson & Peterman in his claim. He used both names in the claim post. Unless it was an intentional slip it suggests to me he was claiming from memory. My first instinct says making a mistake makes the claim more likely to be true, scum would be careful to claim correctly. But the breadcrumb was in his first post and it's obvious he wasn't concocting a claim on the spot, so I'm not sure. Are safe claims pretty standard in theme games these days?