Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Plum]

Vote:SaintKerrigan

Not especially fond of your initial random vote having so much accompanying explanation. Oh wait.

Unvote
Vote: Plum

I forsee this being annoying and I blame it all on Tar for creating a role that does something this stupid in the first place.

Setup speculation time...how many scum do you think there are?

Have I mentioned how long it's been? It's always been too long. It depends on whether or not there are multiple scumteams. If one team, eh, I'd put it at six. Maybe maybe seven, but probably not. If two scumteams, perhaps four apeice (but with heavy immunities?) if they're symmetrical and who knows what if they're not, but probably no more than nine total Mafia in either case.

Elscouta is rather Town and quite clever. However, Fate: WHAAAAAT?

I'd worship the Egyptian Gods.

[Plum]

Setup speculation time...how many scum do you think there are?

Have I mentioned how long it's been? It's always been too long. It depends on whether or not there are multiple scumteams. If one team, eh, I'd put it at six. Maybe maybe seven, but probably not. If two scumteams, perhaps four apeice (but with heavy immunities?) if they're symmetrical and who knows what if they're not, but probably no more than nine total Mafia in either case.

This is not the type of answer I'm looking for. If you had to say how many scum there were, what would you guess it as? Assume there is only one group, plus SK(s).

Six. Plus SK(s), probably, but six.

Though reading forward, good points made by those who're arguing two scumgroups. At this point I know little enough about the Worship Mechanic in general to know that one scumteam would be at risk of abusing it (and multiple scumgroups isn't the only way for a Mod to build safeguards against that; I've recently been coming to the conclusion that there are general multiple ways to fix a mechanic against scum or Town monopolizing the potential gains too easily). I digressed there; point being that multiple scumgroups is a decently likely scenario and if not there'll be some others with some ulterior interest in the way the Worship Voting goes.

SaintK - Semiserious vote on you thar. About as bad as a not-too-hot random vote could get you. It would not be a main pillar of a case on you for the lynch as the day progresses, but if it came to that it would be a minor supporting point.

Fate probably Town at the moment. If the declaration of ABR as Town comes from some degree of knowledge we're not entirely aware of, I'm getting shades of a Town move Zito made in a recent completed game. He should know the one. And it would also point to ABR being Town.

Perfect timing for ABR to come out and post like that, on preview. Yes, ABR, you can be my hero.

Second preview: HIYA SPYREX!

[Plum]

I am Delirium/Delight of the Endless. My whole role changes whether or not the endless are who are being worshiped (Delirium/Delight, specifically).

You lucky lucky lucky dog. Ahem. Great Old Ones = Endless? That's some strange going on - Zito, you're more familiar with the series; does this ring a bell? If not Great Old Ones is likely as not to include a big bunch of Enfless and Lovecraftian and whatnot gods, as far as my speculation goes.

People: I voted myself because I wanna be voting SaintK. To do that I vote the person two above him (as far as I can tell). That person happens to be me. I don't want to be lynched, I just want my vote on my best lead I'm looking at for now. Whoops, thanks Faraday for Ninja'ing me. Anyway: I did

not

intend it as a selfvote. Sorry if that was not clear. If I wanted to selfvote the person I'd say I was voting would have been not me.

On worship, i dont care how we do it. i can vote any way, how ever the town requests, or make all my vote completely transparent.

The tone of this is super horrid scummy. I mean, the sentiment seems engineered to scape the floor with his forehead in front of the Town but says nothing about his thoughts on the mechanic or anything, thoughts on who he'd choose to worship on his own (the question asked in the first place) and the offer of complete transparency . . . just the tone of a scumbag trying to make deals with the Town.

Unvote
Vote: Percy

[Plum]

So long as some players have said SX is scum, I think he's town.

What in the hells? How does this work? Who has said I'm scum?

What IS THIS?

Yeah, my policy is if people ever start saying seriously thst Spy is scum he probably is. He usually oozed delicious %100 pure not from concentrate Townie juice.

Anyway, reskimming my ol' suspect rsomethingfreak I'm having better vibes on him there.this may be partly due to sleeping on it or whatever (and partly due to so many others having similar reactions) but it's also partly because skimming through his Iso I see Ort misrepped him badly, clearly picking and choosing quotes to make him look bad (attacking rfreak for voting me for the apparent selfvote and commenting on his next post, which started off explaining that he understood what I was doing and retracted his suspicions of me on that count). All his other comments were better but no good: Uninsightful and poor suspicions (I can understand taking Fate's reaction to SaintK's question about Worship Vote opinions at this stage being too implicative, but without Fate even voting this is a hella stretch), just plain uninsightful (asking me whether I was creating the Delirium disturbances - if I were I were Town I'd either have told the Town about it ASAP or kept my mouth shut for a good reason; as scum I'd just deny it), COGNITIVELY DISSONANT HERE I'LL QUOTE IT

~~scumvibes~~ from Fate's 97. There's the stretching to find scummy motives from a mere question SaintKerrigan asked, and

also a very premature calling out of ABR as town.

ABR can lead the town.

And before you gang up on me, Ort, I do realize that they're not one and the same. But such positive, sheepy feelings while calling someone scummy for prematurely calling the same person you're content to sheep on is bad. Especially given . . . shoot, there was a great gotcha point here and it slipped out of my mind. Oh yeah: And you didn't even explain at all what's scummy about calling someone Town early.

PREVIEW EDIT: Wow someone said all that last stuff way before me (why I have the same window open from seven thirty don't ask). Fate. Hm. Point being, Ort is very scummy. The last point is good, but misrepping rfreak reminds me of scum-Ort, as I vividly remember an instance where that same demonic entity heavily misrepped me.

Unvote
Vote: CryMeARiver

(Ortolan)

[Plum]

Walls of stuff aren't making me any happier either.

@Mina: Yes, the cognitive dissonance of Ort's post was noted and written up by myself before I read Fate's post.

I'm completely cool with Tar.

Fate's [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 02#2289802]Post 379[url] approximates most of how I broke down that post of Ort's when I read it: Needlessly fluffy in places and not addressing the principle accusations against him, chalking a lot of it up to 'you say I'm lurking but I'm not'. Well, yes, I personally didn't think you were especially guilty of lurking, Ort, but I did find you guilty of intentionally misrepping rfreak (as far as I can see, and you didn't bother to explain otherwise) and suspecting Fate partly because he declared ABR Town too prematurely and then saying simply that ABR can lead the Town. The following reactions by Ort do not diminish my desire to see him lynched.

DTM: What prompted you to refute Mina's case against Ort? I see that when you wrote up your post Ort hadn't yet shown that he didn't feel like doing so himself. But still: nu?

Which reminds me of something -- due to Spyrex's ability, it's very likely that the lynch rolecop will be shifted down two places as well. Just something to keep in mind.

Oh crud. No wait. If we can identify it then it's golden.

Satisfactory answer. I would've asked you in our QT but then it wouldn't have been as an effective distancing vote.

Speculation: Fate's role requires him to get lynched or killed.

Something like the above quote and the scum-oriented wincon he posted a while back aren't things you post when you're actually trying to stay alive. Plus he's been getting antsy about people debarking his wagon. This reads like someone who's trying to die, but without making it blatantly obvious so people won't kill him off.

Speculation:

Fate is just a special little fruitcake in general. Jester speculation is not helpful at this stage of the game. Not sure right now what to make of you for this speculation but want to keep it in mind. Open mental note, as it were.

Okay, the Mina (and slight Iec) rolefishing things are now better absorbed within me; there was so much material that some things stuck better than others. It doesn't terribly captivate my scumdar, and I do want to reread the cases made on them, which include other stuff, but seeing better what angles people are coming from is good.

[Plum]

Dang I so thought my post had gone through. I still have most/much of it saved; hold on. Dang, it

didn't

save. You've gotta be kidding me.

Iec: I did do a cursory comparison of CMAR's play here to

two

other games I've been in with him, both where he flipped Town. I'm not seeing a really notable or noticeable difference, at least on a surface level. What am I supposed to be seeing, anyway? My read on him is fairly null at this point.

Reconstruction of my original post to come (at least partially, maybe abridged), but can be summarized (mostly) by:

And now that Ooba has posted his FUCKING WIN CASE on you Mina and the gang I wouldn't be surprised if all three of the people Spy said he wanted to die via Dice roll are scum.

[Plum]

Dangit, Kingdom Hearts? I'm so ignorant. No, talking about Behind the Scenes Mafia.

Spy, I lost the post entirely, plan to recreate it tomorrow.

[Plum]

Nik: Explain why you conclude Godfather behavior and not 'probably not goon' behavior. Or suchlike.

[Plum]

All right. Zito of MO, I'm looking at you (preferably, I'll take Troll if it must be so): How sure are you that SpyreX's scum read on Mina is off? You're just saying things, and sometimes there's reason for doing that, but I want a number before I'm comfortable with you saying things the way you've been doing. Also Troll,

why single out Ort's entrance to the game as interesting but not DTM's

? Especially given the fact that your

every other

post is something (often weak in my opinion) against DTM.

Nik. Please disregard my last post. I was missing the brain for a minute.

The thing is, Plum, that I find Iecerint pushing a false case on Mina. It doesn't seem like legitimate scumhunting to me. IDK maybe it's because I unconsciously see similarities in the style of play from Iecerint in this game and when he was scum with me before.

Now

this

is the sort of meta that I like and find useful (meta with strong personal connections is in my mind most apt to be on the right track vs. perceived tone/posting style in general). Having said, that, there was a fairly minor oddity I noticed in Iec's original Mina case, and overall his play isn't that encouraging either. But having said that -

Shall I break down the scummy dancing-around-Ortolan that Iec has done piece by piece or spare the post length? Because Iec says multiple times that Ort has done scummy things but it seems like continuous distancing in my humble opinion. Given that right now Iec is casing against CMAR, who's posted little/given little content at all and thinks Ort looks scummy but wants a lot more content from him before considering it. So yeah. That I happen to not like at all either. What, "outright lynching a player who has posted 3 times is a little silly" but someone who's posted ten items with at least as little content as Ort is okay to vote for? The children's moral values are going to get confused, Papa Iec.

The ambivalence regarding Spy sounds disturbingly like 'dang I'm sure I could make a case on you and I wish I could but I can't; ugh; looks at me acknowledge that SpyreX is very Town'.

@Totallynotmafia

, you vote Ort for being likely to have been recruited into the game by scum, and you make fair points about that. What do you think of his actual play/stances thus far this game, though?

I capitulate to the Iec/Mina connections seen by Ooba, though it's possible to see Mina swinging either way thar. And yes I've seen Iec's response. Frankly I'm sure the theory could be wrong, sure, but . . . damn I've gone off my 'don't speculate pairings until you at least get a flip done in the game' (and to a degree did that with Iec-Ort). Look, I'm perfectly willing to lynch Ort (and at this point that also goes for Iec) and call it even and discuss connections more afterwards.

Nik: Sorry, I was missing the brain on my last post directed at you (information overload gogogo). Lemme get back to you with a different something soonish.

Iec, I want to see your response to DarkStalker re: your jump to CMAR on page 13, thanks.

Iec, re: Sky: I don't doubt that this Sky person is in your QT messing around, do doubt that finding him via breadcrumbs Day 1 is going to happen, willing to hold ABR accountable for the awesome stuff he's promising, don't think he's scum at the moment.

[Plum]

Heh.

[Plum]

*headdesk*

[Plum]

Oh wait, never mind that last bit. Forgot that Dram's not Deliriated. Still and all.

[Plum]

We knew Iec's position re Ort re CMAR seemed COGNITIVELY DISSONANT and insincere. That said I'd be happy to see him vote Ort; don't look a scum bussing in the mouth and whatnot (so far as we can see).

[Plum]

1. CMAR has posted no more content than Ort and has shown no more willingness to participate than Ort.

2. Iec acknowledges that Ort has committed actual bad deeds which are scummy, like misrepresenting Fate's case against him. He believes that CMAR's posting tone contrasts with his Town meta for posting tone.

3. It is seen: Iec prefers to vote CMAR on charges no greater, and probably slighter than the charges he admits on Ort.

4. It is seen: Iec is unwilling to vote Ort until he produces more content but is perfectly willing to vote CMAR who has produced as little in terms of both content and overall participation.

5. It is deduced: There is some artificial calculation going on here unrelated to pure Townie scumhunting.

Cognitive dissonance: 'I won't vote Ort until he shows more content but I'm happy to vote CMAR on similar if not lesser charges even though he's produced no more content than Ort.'

[Plum]

Iec: I'm not seeing a notable enough departure from his Day 1 play there to justify a scumread on what he's shown this game, you see.

[Plum]

Oh, I'm fairly confident about Mina. Syreen-kiss confident, almost.

Okay awesome. But what Spy said: Mina's important scum or whatever we not only have to lynch you but I dunno how much I'll be able to trust you with important things, sweet. Given that, Mina's most recent posts have an oddly but very Townish quality.

Plum, have you forgotten about me?

Shoot yeah, and I even forgot what I was going to say to you. Huh. Hold on and let my brain catch up to itself. I think it was something along the lines of 'How would you have expected Parama-Town to have responded to your accusation?' but I've been known to have been wrong about myself before.

A Vig shot in the head of CMAR or SB would not be inappropriate. Or Parama. Or manho. Gosh it's really a smorgasboard, honestly, feel free to grab on whoever wants a bite.

By no grasp I mean I have no idea what the Orto case is or why we're spamming. I do have reads on a select few players and the scum reads I have are the ones I've been putting my vote on.
Els is scum for overcautiousness, and his subtle defending of Orto is a great thing to look at tomorrow if Orto flips scum. Maybe you guys will listen to me then.

This is a fairly bad reason to vote Orto. I'm looking at you as the train moves down; if Ort's scum, and I'm way on the surer side of it than usual for Day 1 business, buddies are hopping on like flies to honey. Yum.

Wait, so far, I've seen that Iec has a QT. Mina also has a QT (different from Iec's). So, what are the odds of having multiple non-scum factions that can talk?

Change factions to groups and I'd say we may have more than we're aware of now, even. That said, if you're having real bad trouble catching up I'd say just stick to commentng on recent stuff until the Day ends if you can because your catching-up-but-not-yet-caught-up posting reads scummish to me and that might just be a scumdar glitch.

[Plum]

Going to be completely honest, I'm voting ort for the sake of voting. I have little other reason.

Voting the biggest bandwagon which is getting up towards lynch count just for the sake of voting doesn't look good. Not sure what to mkae of your honesty. Eh.

Zito: All I'm saying is that I respect what you say when you're give or take willing to invoke the Syreen kiss, and if you use it where it shouldn't be used it'll be showing disdain for it, which obviously would be </3 over here (I guess I'd forgive you if you used it as scum, but I'd never trust it again, so).

[Plum]

Yeah but shoot I'm not DGB.

The world would be a different place &c.

Also Nik already had a strong scumread on him and he's been accusing multiple players of being third party.

It means I really don't give a damn about your accusation.

Mhm. Look, there are other fish in the frying pan and whatnot for now, but I'm on a food-related metaphors roll tonight and I might get hingray again soon so.

[Plum]

Els isn't scum as far as I can see.

Nik - fairly well. The fact that he goes off calling you third-party of all things is weird enough and scummish enough, among other stuff, that I'm inclined to consider his overall reaction scummish.

EBWOP: When I was shouting out to any Vigs I meant that Snowy was a good shot when I said SB. I wouldn't be heartbroken if Starbuck were killed but there are plenty of better shots.

[Plum]

Yeah I'd recruit Ort in that situation.

[Plum]

Because otherwise Tar would have won and exited the game?

FlipScythe, claim please. Everything. Thanks.

[Plum]

Ninja'd.

[Plum]

Oh good heavens.

[Plum]

Ok, regarding the NKs, if nothing went wrong, I was the one who shoot Spyrex down.

WHY?

No seriously. Why in hell?

It's possible that DTM is the modified survivor, since we haven't heard that he's a modified survivor per se. I suppose Tar and/or DTM will let us know. In such an event, cult may have succeeded.

I have info which suggests that DTM is

not

the Modified Survivor, actually.

[Plum]

Parama?

[Plum]

I'm mad about having a good reason to think SpyreX was pro-Town (good vibes augmented the declared ability/Townhelp he gave - sure his passive ability was a slight pain, but telling all and helping us work with it and being a vocal scumhunter . . . yeah) and when Spy is Town he can make really really good things happen, y'see. Why not Vig, hell, a complete lurker or something? Am I sure he is Town? No, not completely positive, but then quantum physics would say that anything is possible. He flipped Delight, claimed Delirium who could shift to Delight (which works with the character flavor). I'm just not seeing scum SpyreX here and live Town SpyreX would certainly be a state I'd much prefer. Are you voting me because I disagree with your claimed Vig target and believe him to be Town for what are from my point of view legitimately good reasons? Please.

[Plum]

Oh please no. Mdnight brainsurge says that Mina got Modified-recruited last Night and that's why she's in Limbo. Maybe I'm just really tired, but it suddenly occurred to me as a possibility.

[Plum]

I worshipped the Egyptian Gods.

The thing that is strangest to me about Snow_Bunny's kill is the fact that she claimed it. I've never played as a vig before but I thought that being a vig is something you'd want to keep to yourself to avoid being NKed, so why did you claim it so early SB?

Yeah seriously wait a minute. In fact. Combied with everything, including reflexively voting me for being upset at her NK choice . . .

That's odd, I thought I had you ranked down on Neutral. Well, you are on neutral, 'nuff said.

In reference to SpyreX. Fate and Ort were listed under 'scummy'. Not that I'd have been pleased by a Fate NK that much, either, but still, this shows no consistency in scumhunting in a scummy way. Also she listed Spy claiming causing the vote/action shift 'interesting', but now claims it was a primary motivation of her shot.

No, I'm voting for you for having an stereotyped scum reaction to killing someone. You see, others have stated their thoughts differently. I don't know, your reaction can't be genuine unless you know for sure Spyrex is town. Yeah, it may be something weak, but there's nothing better as of now.

Wait, so it can't be genuine unless I know Spy is Town, I tell you I don't, so I must be lying scum by that logic, and you call that 'weak'? Do you even believe what you're saying right now, or am I misreading something?

I DONT LIKE THE FACT THAT NOT A SINGLE PERSON CLAIMED TO WORSHIPED GOO YESTERDAY AND THEY CAME OUT OF LEFT FIELD IN THE LEAD.

I can only speak for myself, but having nothing better to go on besides ABR's green light to Worship them and Town-looking Spy suggesting Good Things would happen if we did, well there you are.

[Plum]

@Plum, that'd be a pretty surprising cult recruitment mechanic given how public it is. As soon as we figured it out everyone that got recruited would be outed.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Everyone that got recruited, sure. But to kill a Cult you need to identify the Leader; even being able to lynch a recruit everyday would do us little enough good. That's why I can see it being used as a 'Modified Cult' mechanic.

[Plum]

Ooh.

Vote: Plum

Noticed something pretty awesome. First person to point it out gets town points.

Ooooh, me! Me!

No seriously, I have no idea what you're talking about. No one else seems to, either. Guess you'll just have to give the points to yourself and tell us all what you're seeing, 'kay?

Why.did.you.claimed.this?

/facepalm.

If your claim is true and you are town, I can only see this as the worst anti-town move ever. What do you think town is going to do with that knowledge? /doublefacepalm.

Really! /again, facepalm.

And this is coming from the person who shot Spyrex

and unnecessarily claimed it

. /facepalm

While I agree that it's very facepalm. I'll need to recheck specific circumstances . . . no, looking at it it's really compatible with VI behavior, and even compatible with mildly poor Townplay. Chrono advocated worshiping Egyptian Gods, was asked why, and said he had a nice ability when boosted. He was asked to finish the claim (of what boost he'd get) and complied. I agree that optimally he shouldn't have, but it's an understandable tactical blunder and I firmly believe it's a nulltell.

Also, did I mention that your logic behind claiming the SpyreX kill sucks? Because it does. Unless we were on the verge of lynching someone important because we mistakenly thought he had links to the SpyreX kill, that info would have been much more useful to Town later in the game and kept under wraps until then. Your tactical blunder is at least as bad as Chrono's and possibly even more scum-indicative.

Hm. Wait, because I said six scum yesterday and ABR says his ability shows six scum today I'm likely scum? Oh hell, I was mostly going on instinct based on the Large Theme I was running (which has since ended), which had (well, among other things) a five-man scumteam in a 25-player game. Which was underpowered, but partly because it lacked good scum powerroles. So I took a stab at six. If Parama's calculating definite-scum Plum out of this he has his head screwed on wrong. Guessing that if there's a single scumteam in a Theme game about this size is six or maybe seven is entirely reasonable from a Town perspective, and statistically it's likely that with many Townies trying to give their best guesses at least one will say six. That it happens to be right is partly because it's a fairly reasonable number of scum to have in the first place. The logic behind calling it a strong scumtell is highly faulty. If Parama's talking about something different, I have no clue what it is.

PREVIEW EDIT:

Parama, I was considering Nik's apparent lack of viable suspects with his extremely strong suspicion of you earlier. I wanted to feel out whether his opinions were evolving, how they were evolving, or if he was displaying scummy inconsistencies in his scumhunting. While I saw where his suspicions of you were coming from (I asked him to explain some stuff Day 1, which he did), I did not find them vote-warranting and frankly did not find you to be my top suspect. I was still confused by what happened to Ort, who was by far my top suspect Day 2 - if we'd gotten some sort of flip on him today, just Rolecop, whatever - that would have been my springboard. Especially towards the beginning of today I felt a bit rudderless precisely because a no-Lynch Day 1 simply has that effect, on me at least.

Vote: totallynotmafia

Top suspect besides FlipScythe, who needs to tell us lots of important information and Snowy, who claimed some sort of Vig and whom I'm still feeling out (but who feels strongly strongly off. If Chrono's Town-cooperative and all, we may in the future have the option of being slightly more liberal in lynching claimed strong powerroles because it gives us a little safety net).

Totallynotmafia - what are your thoughts on Snowy at this point?

[Plum]

Oh, yeah, got off track there. Anyway, long story short, that post you quoted was directed at seeing Nik's reaction/feelings on you, not at surreptitiously starting a wagon on you.

[Plum]

TTNM - My mistake, am tired over here. Lemme think you over and I'll call back tomorrow, okay?

[Plum]

The thing is, when a behavior makes no sense from a Town point of view and no sense from a scum point of view it's more reasonable to believe it comes from scum than if it does make some degree of sense from a Town point of view. Not saying I'm leaning towards being very sure you're the SK but still. And have we rules out you being Mafia? We haven't (though circumstances would be needed, and then again we probably have plenty of odd circumstances in general in this game).

[Plum]

@Plum: 975
"I have info which suggests that DTM is not the Modified Survivor, actually."
I would like Plum to elaborate on this

Yeah so said info is that, uh,

I'm the Modified Survivor

. Given my Modification, I think I'm safe enough saying this. And no, my modification has nothing to do with killing and everything to do with giving a Survivor a bigger chance of surviving in a large game (in general, the role itself is inherently just as neutral as a regular survivor, with no abilities that could really cause it to swing much in either direction besides the flow of the game itself). I'd rather not claim my modification now but only say that it should be able to confirm my role. I've been scumhunting sincerely all game, having nothing else to try. But anyway, scum won't be targeting me much because I'm not someone they have to get rid of and I'm threatless to them. Town I'm trying to help with what I can, which is Daygame-related only, I'm afraid. In any case I can win with y'all and it'll be like old times. I'd really rather you not lynch me, for obvious reasons but also because I'm not a threat but Mafia and Cult are.

Sorry Fate if you think I'm a bad survivor. I'm just trying to survive and given my modification it ought to be a valid strategy to help fulfill my win condition.

[Plum]

Yes. Have I increased your joy, ABR?

[Plum]

LOL FUCKING SWEET WE GET TO LYNCH GUARANTEED 3RD PARTY:

UNVOTE
VOTE: PLUM

IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO CLAIM THAT WILL HELP TOWN NOWS YOUR CHANCE.

*headdesk*

Uh. Dude. A lynch of me is an absolute and complete waste of the Town's resources. Not only is it a lynch guaranteed

not

to hit scum, it's also a lynch completely devoid of information value for the Town. We've already had one Day where the lynch had way too little info payoff (Ort yesterday because it went to no-Lynch). If you want me offed, it's be more advantageous all around if you ordered Snowy to NK me and used the lynch more productively, anyway. If I just claimed SK, sure, I'd deserve lynching. But I'm Non-Hostile third-party and I don't need Town to lose to achieve my win condition. Not only that, but unless someone stupid decides to try to counterclaim me (hint: won't happen), it is basically confirmed by ABR's census-type ability that I'm a Modified Survivor. Unless you don't believe me that Modified Survivor = basic Survivor wincon + a bonus to help achieve it in a Large Theme game and that I'm an SK variant, a lynch of me is really not in your best interests.

[Plum]

Do you want to lynch/kill scum or do you want to lynch/kill confirmed non-scum non-threat of questionable general scumhunting value? You may not believe that I'm trying to help the Town but it's fairly conclusive that I'm not pro-scum and I'm not a threat. Town has Cult and Mafia to deal with. Bigger fish to fry, as they say. I've helped out by claiming. I won't promise anything about my degree of NK-immunity or lack thereof but should anyone care to try it would probably only further confirm my status as Modified Survivor at this point.

[Plum]

Please, Fate, the denigration: I have not claimed scum, by a long shot, and there's reasonable basis for not implementing the 'shoot third-party on sight' for reasons I've discussed.

How will lynching a Survivor give you info? Town gains most, info-wise, lynching suspects of unconfirmed alignments. I'm not confirmed, but claiming something other than Town generally cuts down the info-level. Of course, were I scum, this would be an entirely different matter.

Look, I see you're not going to be swayed by argument, reasonable, logical, or otherwise, so I'll continue this discussion when others have shown up and commented.

[Plum]

Dude. You're going to gain what from my lynch which wouldn't be better spent trying to lynch actual scum?

I'm open to discussing stuff, but much more talking between us right now will end up pointless rehashing.

[Plum]

Neither or us has to lose, you know.

[Plum]

What?

Um, yes you should trust me not to be scum due to ABR's claimed census ability. What do you specifically not trust me about?

[Plum]

I'd prefer to know what the modification on Plum's role is. If she's wanting to work with the town it'd be at least better to give full disclosure of her win con.

I've given full disclosure of my win condition. My modification involves no killing actions - in fact, no active actions at all. I have no actions to perform on a regular basis, and my modification cannot cause Town death (or scum death or anything death for that matter - or Limbo or anything like that). My modification merely helps me survive.

[Plum]

The only thing with ABR is that his ability appears pro-town. I guess it also keeps track of the cult, or he could just be lying about it, but ye know. I doubt it.

Doubt he's lying about it, given he knew there was a

Modified

Survivor out there.

[Plum]

So, how about we make a quick vote about it and call it a day?

Just shoot Dram and call it a Night, I say.

[Plum]

At this point I'd be okay getting Limbo'd by Dramonic even given the meatshield business. It's probably best for you guys in general, and for various reasons I don't think it would seriously get in the way of me fulfilling my win condition, and it might even help me, too.

[Plum]

Xite, do you have any inkling why the lynch on Ort Day 1 didn't go through?

[Plum]

Lottery: Grimoire

I think Tar means the Stargate item, not the flavor source.

[Plum]

Uh. Does Delirium have the "Sandman" item?

I don't know what you're referring to. Got no PM about the Lottery, but once people started doing it I realized that reac=ding the thread is tech enough. Dunno if we're looting their corpses or what . . . I don't think so, given the wording of the Lottery mechanic, the fact that these items are only being introduced right now . . .

[Plum]

Ah, I see. I guess everyone saying things that aren't Sandman or Stargate are just making it up...?

As far as I know I'm making things up/hoping to get lucky. Sandman was an actual character, one of the names of the one of the Endless (Dream) who was the protagonist of the series. The Stargate was some sort of gate through which one could travel to different points in space (? - I know it's some sort of special travel device, getting a skim of the Wikipedia artical).

[Plum]

Good luck; he's probably a player in this game, if anything.

[Plum]

Weird coincidence that Snowy was redirected to the player she decided to kill on her own, from a list of at least six potential players she's have liked to Vig, if memory serves. And by 'weird coincidence' I mean 'how sure are we that there were no shenanigans from her'? I might be missing something. But.

[Plum]

Yeah, she claimed the shot

after

the news that it was the Godfather went around, not before.

[Plum]

I'll deal with Snowy, for now, but am not entirely convinced that there are no shenanigans going around. She'd assume a redirector might claim or it might have been madness that no one could or would claim which caused it, and that given that inHim was the GF and that he was on her original list she might as well try to make the most of it. Basically, I'm not willing to declare her almost surely Town because of this.

[Plum]

@Plum, it's not because of this claimed shot that I think she's almost certainly town. It's because of the way things came out yesterday. If we believe Albert B. Rampage about roles there's no Serial Killer in the game which would mean that she'd be mafia if she was a killing role. I can't think of a time that I've seen a member of the mafia come out as a vig on day one; it's just not a safe or wise thing to do.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Mmmmmf. We don't know enough about the mechanics and setup to rule it out, but very well.

Oh yeah, but what Iecerint said.

[Plum]

No wait, Iec, didn't the second kill from last Night not come from the Godfather-lyncher and so was probably a Mafia kill?

[Plum]

Xite, don't be an idiot. ABR wasn't making thing up unless you think we're teammates and I claimed Modified Survivor to back him up. His ability doesn't guarantee he's Town but he's not making things up.

[Plum]

Explain how ABR could have correctly guessed

Modified

Survivor was my Role without some sort of information along the lines of what he's claimed. It fits too well with what we know to be made up.

[Plum]

Does that confirm his alignment, though? Sure he has setup information, but that doesn't confirm his alignment either way.

I agree, but Xite saying he was making things up yesterday is completely false. He clearly knew (at least some of, probably most if not all of) the info he was giving us then.

[Plum]

I think you're on MOONBEAMS

[Plum]

I hear ya, Zito.

I don't see anything wrong with a massclaim at this point.

[Plum]

I was going to say 'but I don't blame you taking what I'm saying with a grain of salt because I'm a claimed Survivor', but then I thought 'oh nevermind, Fate is sure to remind everyone of the fact forcefully so I might save myself the trouble'.

I don't have any

dirty

secrets, and the few things I've chosen not to talk about in the game thread have been spoken of to mutiple others via other legitimate means.

[Plum]

If I had a hammer . . .

well sorry, I don't. Never had one here.

[Plum]

But why did I reincarnate as Cult, of all things?

Also I

totally

called SnowBunny scum. Which I'm priud of. Also except for suddenly reincarnating as Cult I think the early claim would've panned out pretty well.