Open 238: Trendy and Subversive Game Over

[Tazaro]

EBWOP: But it doesn't start today strictly reading his sig, but still, who knows?

[ODDin]

Claims are only proper when somebody is at L-1 AND there's somebody willing to hammer. Thus, I read mallow's post requesting a claim as a willingness to hammer TJ, and this should be answered.
However, there are only 2 days left till deadline...

[Sawyer]

Oh wow I didn't even realize that. Yeah, we should probably get a claim then.

[gonnano]

Can someone summarize the case on TJ for me? I don't really see all of the scumminess that other people seem to be seeing, and right now I'd much rather go with an ODDin lynch (since it looks like I won't get my Sawyer lynch).

Deadline is closing in, so in the interest of providing viable options for the town I will
UNVOTE: Sawyer
VOTE: ODDin

[Tazaro]

I refuse to vote ODDin. Here's why I voted for TeeJay at first, and then decided to revote. This is the scummiest part of the game, what TeeJay did to podium, which was picking his body like a vulture:

VOTE: TeeJay

, because of this:

Millar thinks that "'generally' only scum dispute something that much". What do I think of that? I wouldn't say that it's a scum tell, but that's just me. The fact that he voted because of it doesn't send any flags up due to the facts that a) that is the only vote against you, and b) It's early in the game.

What I will make note of is this:

1.) You have immediately gotten defensive after one vote was cast your way. At the very least that your antsy.

2.) On top of that, you had a text book example of an OMGUS vote toward millar.

3.) You attempt to draw attention away from yourself by asking my opinion of millar's actions.

I won't hold reason #3 against you too much because everyone does it. I will give you a piece of advice though, if I have an opinion worth speaking of, you won't need to ask what it is.
I am not one for keeping silent. There are cases in which I am still contemplating things and thus have not added input, but otherwise, you shouldn't have to ask.

So the sum of my post is this. You look scummy.

You seemed over-eager to jump on podium because of his reaction to millar-the-game killer.

[Tazaro]

post above this ^ If you see nothing that Oddin did that was scummier, vote TeeJay. Vote for who did the most scummy thing

[gonnano]

I was looking looking back at the thread, and noticed a couple of things that I didn't see before.

That's kind of a weak post/vote, man. First of all... sawyer said it

sounded

like a contradiction... and i agree.

How does this make any difference? I realize that sounding like and being a contradiction are different things, but Sawyer was definitely trying to say that it

was

a contradiction. The only way for him to say "it sounds like a contradiction" without implying that it is in fact a contradiction would be for him to say something along the lines of "it sounds like a contradiction, but upon closer inspection..." etc., which he didn't do.

Also, in Sawyer's post 194, he sets up a very good straw man.
he takes this quote:

I didn't need to think about it due to others opinions. I wanted to wait, and thought that in the mean time, it would be great to hear from the rest of the players.

and makes this conclusion.

you just wanted to hear other opinions, but that's not related to you needing to think about it.

to recap, TJ said that he wanted to wait(to think about it), and as a bonus it would give others a chance to chime in. Then, Sawyer interprets TJ's statement as saying that he wanted to wait for others to speak, and as a bonus it would give him a chance to think.

It's a subtle difference, but Sawyer uses it as a basis to leave out parts of TJ's posts and construct a contradiction that wasn't there to begin with.

[Tazaro]

The only people I won't vote for are Oddin and podium.

[podium123456]

It's a subtle difference, but Sawyer uses it as a basis to leave out parts of TJ's posts and construct a contradiction that wasn't there to begin with.

I disagree. It does sound like a contradiction. But the language is so general/vague that it really can't be proved or disproved.

[gonnano]

I don't see anything in that post worth voting for TJ, Taz. He points out podium's reaction to millar's vote, and says that he finds it scummy. That's it. What about that post seemed overeager to you?

[Tazaro]

Maybe podium can clarify how he felt, but I felt it was an all too sudden attack on podium.

[Tazaro]

Until podium may confirm or deny how he felt about the attack's abruptness:

Unvote

I feel a duty to vote SOMEONE.

Vote: Sawyer

[gonnano]

Maybe podium can clarify how he felt, but I felt it was an all too sudden attack on podium.

What does podium's opinion have to do with your vote?

You

said that

you

thought it was an overeager attack, and I want to know why it seemed that way to

you

.

[Tazaro]

To me, it was a pretty sudden attack.

[podium123456]

taz, you're acting like a spaz.

[Tazaro]

I just don't know who to vote for.

[gonnano]

You mean it seemed overeager because it was fast? The two components involved in making a response are the internet and (debatably)thinking, both of which can move pretty fast.

[Tazaro]

Yes, overeager because of its suddeness.

[Tazaro]

@MOD: I think I'm in a few too many games and cannot connect. Please replace me

[Tazaro]

@gonnano, do you think I should be replaced if I'm not enjoying myself? I think so, I'm not enjoying this game.

[Tazaro]

I hope no one minds; I am in like six games.

[gonnano]

It does sound like a contradiction. But

I'm not really concerned about whether it was actually a contradiction or not, even though personally I would say not. Mainly my point is that Sawyer tried to use it as an example of scumminess, and used a misrep to help his accusation. I quoted you because you did what Sawyer did not do, which was to acknowledge the fact that it is not a proven, 100% guaranteed contradiction.

Preview Edit: Wow. If this weren't an open setup I would swear that we had a role whose win condition somehow includes replacing out.

[gonnano]

Soo... I'm thinking Vanilla Townie for the millar/Taz role. I find it unlikely that two different people would replace out of a mafia or power role without at least waiting for the first Night.

[podium123456]

It does sound like a contradiction. But

I'm not really concerned about whether it was actually a contradiction or not, even though personally I would say not. Mainly my point is that Sawyer tried to use it as an example of scumminess, and used a misrep to help his accusation. I quoted you because you did what Sawyer did not do, which was to acknowledge the fact that it is not a proven, 100% guaranteed contradiction.

Sawyer said it sounded like a contradiction.

In your vote-post, you said you saw absolutely no contradiction.

I criticized your vote-post as being weak... because (in addition to the other point) saying there was 'absolutely no' contradiction, was about as accurate as sawyer saying there 'absolutely was' a contradiction (which he hadn't at that point). That is why i said your vote-post was weak.

[gonnano]

At the time that I said that there was absolutely no contradiction, the two statements that I had seen from TJ were that he felt that he needed to at least think about it before hammering, and that he wanted to wait for others to post. These two items are not mutually exclusive, so there was absolutely no contradiction present. Later, TJ went back and got very specific and started making a lot less sense.