Newbie 976 - Game Over.

[gandalf5166]

VOTE: theperson, for being in my last game! This is the first time that I have used the vote tag as well.

[gandalf5166]

Well, I am now forced to change my random vote. VOTE: koch. I just learned that he is also a member over on kongregate, which is a serious offense. Hi, viper. I really wish that the tongue out face didn't look so stupid on this site.

[gandalf5166]

I'm at L2 now. Two more votes and I will be lynched. Just announcing it so that scum can't "accidentally" QL me. I actually have to ask koch why he felt comfortable putting me at L2 on page one.

[gandalf5166]

I don't see how L2 puts me at "no risk of being lynched". All we need is one townie to not notice the vote count, and one scum to pretend he didn't, and we have a lynch. Plus a potential mislynch the next day. And theperson's right. There's no such thing as pressure in the RVS. There's no way I could convince NS that my avatar is not creepy. It is, that's why I picked it. It would be my avatar on kong if it wasn't too big. And I'm not going to lie, it certainly opened up conversation, but hardly in a way that's good for you, whichever team you're on.

[gandalf5166]

1. Well........ Nobody's doing anything. But I love mafia!!!
2. Definitely vanilla. Chocolate just tastes funny.
3. I've played several on kongregate, but everybody on that site sucks at mafia, so........ I consider this my second game of mafia. I've played one other on this site.
4. Yes. A. If they're smart town, then they should never lie. Therefore they're either stupid town or scum. B. If they're stupid town, then they definitely should not be around for lylo. They'll make a stupid vote and town will lose. C. If they're scum, then they need to be lynched!
5. I'm better at math, by far. I can do long division in my head, but my biceps are approximately 5 inches around. Am I the only one who thinks that sports shouldn't happen within schools? I can understand why you have to get an athletics credit, but you shouldn't be able to fail half your classes and still pass the grade just because you're good at football. You should have to go somewhere else for sports, and bring a certificate in at the end of the semester that says you participated.
6. Not really. Sometimes you just don't have a lot of time all of a sudden. What I do find scummy is being active, but not having any analysis to your name. I tolerate people who make fluff posts if they contribute analysis as well, but I'd rather someone got replaced out for inactivity than they post every 6 hours about their cat.
7. I think it's great. There's not really any other way to get the game running.

[gandalf5166]

What do you find scummy about Friend?

[gandalf5166]

To whom are you directing that?

That was directed towards Aspen.

[gandalf5166]

Actually, NS, I find it very strange for you to say that Friend has stifled discussion. This game was in it's death throes, and he revived it. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that that level of truth twisting merits a

VOTE: NS

And yes, I'm aware this puts him at L2, but I don't really think that it's a big deal, now that we're not in the RVS stage, especially since I've announced it.

[gandalf5166]

Okay, the reason that I thought L2 in the RVS was serious is I was afraid of an accident. An absent-minded townie might have put on a vote without looking at the VC, and then scum might have pretended to do the same. And Friend, I said that that was the reason I dropped the vote, I didn't say that it was my only reason. Sorry, will post more tomorrow, it's marathon day right now, so I'm busy.

[gandalf5166]

I do think that at this point in the game, nobody is going to be able to get away with a quicklynch.

[gandalf5166]

I have a theory about koch's aggressiveness accusation, but I won't reveal it until koch answers framm's question. I will say though, it's definitely not good for him.

[gandalf5166]

It makes no sense. Nobody can get away with a quicklynch, so I'm scummy?

[gandalf5166]

I'm not sure. I more find him stupid than scummy, I guess. He is just too...... jumpy.

[gandalf5166]

I was. But it was mainly because it was my first game on the site, and I was unused to the fact that scumhunting was occurring. See, on kongregate, there is a magical land of mafia where everybody sucks, almost everybody gets a power role, and we basically do RVS all the way through the game. So when people started analyzing my posts, I thought it was weird.

[gandalf5166]

Oh, and despite the incredible odds in the town's favor if everybody has a power role, scum usually wins.

[gandalf5166]

I think he was referring to the games he plays on kongregate.

I think that Framm was saying that an all-power role game is not necessarily tipped in the town's favor.

[gandalf5166]

The thing is, if I reveal it, then he can just deny, deny, deny. And plus, it's not really relevant until he shows up. There's no point in pushing a case against someone unless they're around to attempt to defend themselves.

[gandalf5166]

I just wanted to announce it that way it wouldn't seem like it came out of nowhere later.

[gandalf5166]

Well, let's look at his ISO. 0-2 are RVS/introduction, you don't really expect much content there. But then, to "revive" discussion, he uses random questions. I don't mind RQS. As long as SOME of them are actually related to the game at hand. Which of course, none of his are. The way to revive a game is to do what Friend did when he replaced in: He called out the people who were acting scummy and started asking questions. Asking completely irrelevant questions does nothing but encourage fluff posts. He does ask a relevant question in his next post, however, but not really related to the game at hand. Mafia theory doesn't help us find scum. By the way, going off-subject: Star is wrong. Statistically, the best thing for town to do D1 is NL. Problem is, that then the best thing for mafia to do that night, statistically, is not kill. So the game never ends. Back on-topic: 6-7 is more commenting that does nothing to advance the game. In eight, he answers his own stupid questions. 9 is something that needed to be said, but still nothing to do with finding scum. 10, he at least makes an accusation, but for a reason that has nothing to do with the game, once again: If you don't agree with me, you must be scum. 11, he posts his read on one player, with no analysis to back it up. 12, his Aspen vote still disturbs me. He votes Aspen for coming back into the game? Would he be less scummy if he lurked for another two days, and then came back? 14-16, he makes three long posts, still raging about RQS. Now, you might have noticed that nowhere in there did he do an ounce of scumhunting. And normally, I

might

accept that as an excuse. But he made three very long posts about RQS, so clearly he has time. He should have saved it for MD and done some scumhunting. And then of course, there's the "blatant attempt at stifling discussion" thing, when you revived the game, for Christ's sake.

[gandalf5166]

I'm sorry Friend, just realized that only applies to games with a night start and an even number of players.

[gandalf5166]

I will not be voting NS on day 1 regardless of whether he is scum or not upon him winning me my either newbie game!

Awaiting on koch's reply.... (or a sub)

OK can you please stop mentioning other games that are going on, in this game thread? It is slightly annoying and why would you not vote for him if you were sure of him being scum???

The game is completed.

And there is no plausible way that we will be presented with evidence on day 1 of NS being scum.

Please elaborate.

[gandalf5166]

Well, here's my theory on koch's "aggressiveness" accusation. To be honest, the fact that he's playing the newbie card that I used in 939 disturbs me. Because in iso1, he says that he has read many other games. Also, I get the feeling he has played on sites other than kong and here. His posts(granted, they are few, so I could be misinterpreting them) give the vibe of someone at least semi-experienced. My theory is that he read the beginning of 939, compared my early playstyle in that to my play on kong, realized that they were similar, and saw an opportunity. See, on kong, I play with that over-the-top aggressiveness all the time. So he thought that that was my playstyle everywhere, but since the only game that I've played like that on here, I was scum, he thought he could pull some meta-screwiness. He would call me aggressive, I would respond with aggressiveness. He would show you guys my last game, then he would just need to make up a little bit of a case(it's really not that hard to do) to back up the meta, and he gets a free lynch. To summarize, he would pretend that what he thought was always my playstyle was my scum meta, and get me lynched. the mistake he made was in assuming that I play here in the same way that I play on kong. So when I don't behave in the way he thought I would, he goes back and reads more of 939, sees me pull the newbie kongregator card, and decides he could do something similar here. and thus spawns post 156.

[gandalf5166]

Yeah, he really gives me more of a null-read than a town-read. I smell scumteam.

[gandalf5166]

DP and koch. Normally I would think that DP couldn't possibly be that stupid, but I played a couple of marathon games with him, and he quite possibly could be that stupid. I'm not sure whether he really is that stupid, or if it's something he puts on so that you can't get a good read on him, but it would not surprise me if he threw in koch's name just because he was his partner.

[gandalf5166]

Yeah, but I read some of the others, and you have a tendency to initiate WIFOM. I didn't say I was certain of it, I was saying that it was mildly suspicious that he would not bother to explain his ONLY town read.

[gandalf5166]

I already answered that question. Look, I have this thing. People will say one sentence, and I read a lot into it. I have learned that this is usually just me being paranoid, but that doesn't mean I always ignore it. I always make note of it, but I don't make a deal out of it until there is reasonable evidence to support it, i.e. one of them has flipped scum and the still living one is acting pretty scummy.

[gandalf5166]

Look, I'll go pull the posts I'm talking about. Maybe they were all from that one game, but they're still there.

[gandalf5166]

i dont think he's scum. i know he's scum.

This was after about two seconds in the game, after he had voted for this person three times, for some weird reason. Not even really a RV, in the sense that he had made it before he even knew his own role, with no random reasoning behind it. And then later he comes back from lurking for about five minutes(which is the equivalent of like, a week in a marathon game) and lays down the hammer for, once again, no reason. I guess the several posts I'm remembering are from this game.

VOTE: startransmission

I had a big rant at the IC is another game of mine about how useless he was (day 1 quick lynch, and day 2 QUICKER lynch (about 6-7 posts of discussion) and he was the IC amonst these incompetent clowns. Then day 3, he doesn't even post), so I think voting on you right now to get you to talk is where my vote is most useful! (btw not claiming you are useless, just saying I want to avoid that )

Not WIFOM, but it's that same "how stupid are you" thing. And just pointing out, something I noticed in ISO: Just a little while ago, koch was his biggest suspect, and now he's his only town read. I don't understand what changed.

I'm awaiting to see the outcome of another game NS is in before I decide whether to tunnel him or not :p /jokes

More stupidity.

I do think that at this point in the game, nobody is going to be able to get away with a quicklynch.

Nobody can get away with one at any point...

FoS: gandalf

More.

I will not be voting NS on day 1 regardless of whether he is scum or not upon him winning me my either newbie game!

Awaiting on koch's reply.... (or a sub)

MORE!!!!!!

Elaborate??? Point 1 - newbie 965. Town Win. NS put the final vote on scum in LYLO.

Point 2 - In this game setup (And almost any game setup), you will never be given 100% proof of a player being scum on day 1. You can be presented evidence that points to a player likely being scum, but never complete proof. And with NS (he was IC in that game), I highly doubt he will even make a big enough slip to be highly-probable scum. With that said, I'm not against a NS lynch, just saying I won't be the one to support it! Common courteousy, think of that what you will.

MOOOOOOOORRRRREEEE!!!!!!! The point is, he doesn't have a very intelligent playstyle, whether by design or misfortune. So I would not at all think he was too smart to make his scumbuddy his only town read.

[gandalf5166]

But really, you didn't take long to start pushing your next mislynch ST.. Twilight phase and already trying to sow the seeds for the next mis lynch?

So you know NS is a mislynch? And what mislynch am I orchestrating now?

NS says he is a mislynch, he said so after he reached the lynch. Why would he lie when he's already been lynched?

[gandalf5166]

Actually, I'm thinking a DP/ST scumteam. Their interaction in twilight very much reminds me of the dynamic between me and Sotty when we were scumbuddies. I bussed her, and she acted like my accusations were worthless without actually bothering to refute them. Not ready to throw down a vote just yet, however.

[gandalf5166]

ST, I didn't think you were scum until after the day was OVER, because you didn't make any posts. I realize that that wasn't your fault, but how could I have voted for you? And I'll pull up the posts that gave me that vibe.

[gandalf5166]

ST looking scummier now. He tried to put the blame on me as soon as I hammer'd (almost as if expecting the town flip), by pointing out how I dealt with pressure, I'm not denying my contradiction, but after his lurking, and his reaction to the town flip (assuming it will be one after NS said that) i'm looking at ST tomorrow. Still leaning town on Friend for his consistency, but we'll see.

But really, you didn't take long to start pushing your next mislynch ST.. Twilight phase and already trying to sow the seeds for the next mis lynch?

I agree, ST seems very defensive and he seems very jumpy right now.. Friend I'll need some convincing as his scum partner.

I don't know how to respond to that. Other than lurking (which could be better referred to as RL as I've not actually lurked) I've done nothing scummy, and I feel no pressure whatsoever. I don't need to not look like scum. DP has made an assumption, and I'm explaining why it's not a good assumption to make.

Acting like he has no point.....

Defensive of what? Jumpy how?

Acting like you don't know what he's talking about. Granted, I'm more suspicious of ST. But this is possible scum-scum interaction to refer to if ST ends up scum.

[gandalf5166]

Also, I think that my first game on this site being scum was bad for me....... I seem to have picked up a rather scummy playstyle..... >.<

[gandalf5166]

Well, DP made a reasonably convincing case against you, and you answer the weak points, like lurking, but ignore the other ones. That just seems like a scummy thing to do. You've only responded to half his argument.

[gandalf5166]

Yeah friend, that second post was also one of the main reasons I thought scum. So, since ST has only done more of what I accused him of, i.e. pretending cases against him are worthless, I guess I'll VOTE: ST

[gandalf5166]

Oh wow. For some weird reason, I completely missed F18 and Dp's votes. Kinda strange.

[gandalf5166]

EBWOP: i meant to say, thanks for noticing that, Friend.

[gandalf5166]

By the way, the fact that Friend and unvoted immediately definitely strikes me as town. Scum easily could have pretended that they had had to go to bed and left their vote on for a while longer.

[gandalf5166]

ST looking scummier now. He tried to put the blame on me as soon as I hammer'd (almost as if expecting the town flip), by pointing out how I dealt with pressure, I'm not denying my contradiction, but after his lurking, and his reaction to the town flip (assuming it will be one after NS said that) i'm looking at ST tomorrow. Still leaning town on Friend for his consistency, but we'll see.

This post, and your response, or rather lack of response, to it. You answer the points made in his two subsequent posts, but conveniently ignore this one. And then you act like I haven't already stated my argument twice.

[gandalf5166]

Clarification: Specifically the first half of that post. Why did you jump so soon to more accusations at a time when we should be getting info from a confirmed townie?

[gandalf5166]

Yes, but DP wasn't saying that you were being defensive. He was wondering why the first thing you did after the NS hammer was make a case against him. The fact that you were already accusing DP of a mislynch when we hadn't even seen the flip, or even heard from NS yet. EBWOP: Okay. That's what I needed. You sounded like you were pushing a case already. You've answered my question, and I'm satisfied with your answer. UNVOTE:

[gandalf5166]

Now explain your Aspen case. If it's really lame, I might have to un-unvote.

[gandalf5166]

Indeed, DP, indeed. And ST, you're the IC. Shouldn't you know this?

[gandalf5166]

Okay, this is the second time that koch has gotten on for the first time in a few days and parroted ST's case. One more time and my scumteam is cinched.

[gandalf5166]

If you used the process of elimination, then surely you came up with a scumbuddy too. Who would that be?

[gandalf5166]

If you used the process of elimination, then surely you came up with a scumbuddy too. Who would that be?

I don't deal in scumbuddies until a scum is actually lynched. Otherwise it's pure academics, and can be a distraction from actual scumhunting.

There are two other questions directed at me. I'd like to get to them tonight, but I'm zonked. Likely tomorrow. In the meantime I want those bullet points I mentioned...

Because tunneling is entirely beneficial to the town, and doesn't make you look scummy at all.

[gandalf5166]

[/sarcasm]

[gandalf5166]

Could we get a prod on koch, mod?

And ST, I definitely want to know why you're voting me instead of Aspen. I don't remember you ever expressing any doubts about me.........

Mod Note: koch was prodded earlier this page.

[gandalf5166]

Okay, let me summarize what you said in that response to the second quote, because it's kind of confusing. "You accuse the two scummiest players in the game of being scum together. You don't vote yet though, because you don't want to have to explain your vote switch when the wagon goes nowhere(insert faulty explanation for why this is scummy). Then you use the case that one of them used against the other as an explanation for your vote." The first part isn't scummy at all. I can't point out a connection between the scummiest players in the game? Second part: It's simple. If I had voted for DP, I'd just be sitting here right now with my vote doing nothing. And then, if I switched my vote, you would all yell at me to explain it, even though I already had. I find you both equally scummy, so why wouldn't I wait and see what everyone else was thinking? Third part: Scumbuddies can be the perfect source of legitimate cases at times. If you build up a crappy case, then the bussing is almost irrelevant. Scum don't always lie. To do so would be stupid.

[gandalf5166]

I am so sorry about the inactivity, I was so excited about my minis that I forgot entirely about my Newbie games...... Unfortunately, I can't post since my mom is making me go to bed.......