Mini 981: Descent into Chaos (Game Over)

[Kenman]

vote uncertainkitten

Didnt you read the story?, obviously he's Santas and was exploring the cave when
Xelmas was killed lol. Therefore it couldnt have been him. Plus theres no was a scribe could kill a guild scorcerer- no offence SK.

I sense a modkill incoming to demonstrate proof of power...lol jk

[Kenman]

Maybe you know SK is scum cuz it says in your pm!!!. I think YOU ARE HIS SCUM BUDDY.

[Kenman]

Having an organized sleep cycle is a great idea. It will allow us to help power roles know when to target who. Also, I think, if we have certain people sleep at certain nights, we can systematically rule can and cannot be mafia, or at least somewhat.

[Kenman]

Hey, if you got it flaunt it! Am I right? Flavor version of me should totally jump on that lol!

[Kenman]

This is the only reason I find sleeping during the day over night better. Scum knows X is asleep so they target Y.
But also my plan says town finds X and Y scummy and says hey you need to sleep tonight and can't sleep during the day. I can see a loop hole if x is scum but not Y but if both are scum loop holes can be found. But my hope is if we think X and Y we just lynch one or the other the next day.
I would rather force those we find the scummiest not to sleep during the day.

I dont fully understand how this works. Is there another way you could explain it? Why not have the scummiest players sleep at night, therefore, it they are scum, they are either forced to lie or unable to kill. If they are unable to kill yay for us. If they are lieing, we have them stay awake n2, then we can test their votes on d3. To see if they actually slept N1. What do people think?

[Kenman]

...I apologize to Kenman.

I misread. It is VasudeVa who is an idiot, and at this point obvious scum. I blended the two posts by scrolling too fast.

Please, Kenman, forgive me for abusing you, the abuse belongs to VasudeVa!

OMG after I read your first post I was like. Where the hell did this aggression come from? Sorry? But I understand now, so it cool xD.

Nik-

unvote

yah i forgot to do that lol. At this point UK seems obv town to me right now along with farside. As for now Vasedeva and Easjo are definitely big blips on my scum radar. But Im not thoroughly convinced yet, therefore Im willing to wait a little bit before I replace my vote.

[Kenman]

Not really. I just think it's futile IN THIS CASE. And it's not anti-town to sleep whenever you want. I think town organization is good, especially in games like AiTP. But here it just seems fruitless. Nobody's come up with an even halfway viable solution that doesn't have gaping holes for scum to take advantage of.

Get with the program dude. Sleeping whenever you want is definitely anti-town. An organized sleep schedule will firstly, keeps everyone on the same page, that in itself helps town a great deal, also it will allow town to eliminate the scummiest people from influencing the vote by having them sleep. Not to mention, I can see some people sleeping at certain times to because they are scummy and want to aviod talking to people or cuz they are bad town and cant hide there PR's properly.

Unless there's a 95% bulletproof sleep plan that doesn't leave any holes for scum, you can expect me not to follow it, along with half the players.

If town agree with a half-way decent schedule, we should EXPECT you NOT to follow it? For Real? Are you trying to through confusion into the mix. Even if its not 95% bullet proof, some organization is better than none.This is coming from someone who said they prefer organization.

I realize Day 1 is usually a waste of space unless it stretches past the RVS, but this one went straight from RVS into (what I perceive to be) useless setup speculation that will ultimately get us nowhere and waste valuable time. And since days are less than a week long, even moreso.

I think its getting us somewhere for a multitude of reasons. One being

vote reapercharlie

[Kenman]

Simple enough for someone who only cares about his own neck. (who would do that? oh yeah, scum.)

I guess we cant put ReaperCharlie on that list since he may not follow it depending on his definition of the word GOOD.

[Kenman]

Well, it's less than half the town. But not by much. Basically, I expect tomorrow needs to have a max of four sleepers. So, actually, I guess I was a little hard on you since I was saying functionally "slightly less than half the town"

How do you plan to about nominating these four sleepers? If your just looking for volunteers as Nik did. Then Im I dont mind sleeping either.

[Kenman]

Okay, so Kenman is the last scum. That was an easy game.

?? explain yourself.

[Kenman]

No thanks. I'm just going to sit back and wait for everyone (and by everyone I mean UK and ABR) to agree with me so that we can lynch you and be done with the game.

Well I would hope they wouldn't. From what Ive seen, UK and ABR use reasoning and evidence when they suspect someone as being scum. If your going to provide neither then I see no reason why anyone should respect your accusations.

[Kenman]

Oh no you di'n't. *snaps*

If you need an explanation, it's because you voted for ReaperCharlie for opposing a sleep schedule, when not only are easjo and VV (you know, the other scum, who you've chosen to not attack except for some distancing in this post because they are your scumbuddies) much, much more guilty on that count than Charlie, but Charlie has even agreed to going along with a plan if one comes up that he agrees with.

Yes I di' *snaps back*
I full well knew they were more likely candidates ill give you that. Easjo has the most votes with 3/7. I voted for RC, with the intent of accomplishing two things. One, I know we aren't that close to an actual lynch therefore, I wanted to bring out the suspicious players with the intent of changing my vote to either VV or easjo when it came down to crunch time. Two, I wanted to get a reaction from him. I voted for him in order to put pressure on him in hopes that he reveal something scummy.

[Kenman]

I don't get why I am 'scum' for going against the sleep thing, also for voting who I think is leading the town into doing something silly. How is that scummy?

It is scummy because an organized sleep schedule IS beneficial to the town. Especially the one we have settled on. Im not sure if you are arguing for the sake of arguing, which is definitely scummy, or you are genuinly opposed to the sleep schedule.

(Nik,Farside,UK -correct me if im wrong)
Everyone sleeps during the day, this makes it so no one will sleep without the town knowing. The scummiest people sleep at night, therefore, if they are scum they are unable to use their abilities or they have to stay awake and kill, If they do that, they run the risk of being caught through vote randomization. If they sleep during the day, when they are not assigned they are caught as well. Im not too sure if there is a way to prevent scum from stagggering sleep besides the obvious fact of catching all of them but the plan is decent and will provide organization and control.

*WIFOM ALERT*
Why would scum bother going against it if they are going to disobey in the first place and get all that juicy info without them even trying, hm?
*END WIFOM*

It isnt WIFOM. Have you been paying attention? The plan is designed to catch people who do not follow the plan. Not only are they not going to follow the plan. We are counting on it. I dont believe your slow or stupid. On the contrary I think you fully grasp all this information, "which is why you are against it."

Plus, the effect's don't seem that detrimental to town anyway. If anything, it looks more like sleep affects scum more than town.

You practically discredited your own arguement right there. Sleep does affect scum more than it affects town. They are required to stay awake in order to kill. So why would you not be in favor of a sleep schedule?

vote Vasudeva

Did you get the reaction you were searching for, and if so, would you care to explain what it was?

If not, why is your vote still on me?

It was a mistake to vote for you. Although I didnt like how you mentioned you were willing to deviate from the plan if you felt like it wasnt good enough. My read on you so far is neutral, though leaning scum, I could be wrong but its only day 1.

[Kenman]

never said everyone sleep during the day. I have been saying over and over those we find the scummiest should be forced to sleep at night or be lynched.

Yah I know, thats what I said in the second sentece you quoted.

[Kenman]

Kenman's vote for VV is... a wtf moment for me. Kenman, you're still ignoring easjo. Both easjo and VV are guilty of what you're voting VV for. easjo has the bigger wagon. Thus, you should be voting for easjo. Why did you vote for VV instead?

As of now I am not ignoring easjo its just that her posts seem really insubstantial. Shes not scum hunting or doing anything really, besides arguing with UK. I could see her being scum or just a bad town player. VV on the other hand, has posted significantly more substance, but only to the effect of incriminating himself even more. Regardless of whos bandwagon is bigger, I have a more confident read on VV and will leave it where it is for the time being,

[Kenman]

Assuming all goes well, I will post an analysis of each player expressing my reads and opinions on D2(well end of day2 assuming our sleep plan is still up). As of now, because we are so close to the deadline with relatively few suspects, I feel that throwing out suspicions will be pointless atm. We are pretty much decided on easjo or VV.

[Kenman]

grab fetish crafting kit

im probably too late but might as well try

[Kenman]

grab fetish crating kit

[Kenman]

After ISOing everybody and analyzing their posts, here are my reads on everyone. Some positive and some negative.

Chronopie- Neutral but leaning scummy. I dont like the fact that pretty much all of his posts are very insubstantial. If he was pro-town I would be more inclined to think his main interest in the game would be scum-hunting. Not only has he not scum hunted at all, he hasnt even posted anything suggesting his suspicions of anyone. This reads scummy to me since he is careful not to point fingers. The only vote he has placed, was on easjo, where Im sure even he can admit was a bandwagon vote since none of his previous posts or that one even, had support or evidence behind it. Overall seemingly scummy for remaining neutral, bandwagoning, and lack of ANY support behind his votes.

Me=Wierd- Scummy. Pretty much guilty of the same crimes as Chronopie but to a greater extent. With the exception of ViQleS (who was V/LA) He has the least amount of posts with roughly half of what everyone else has.

You know what would be really nice? If people started scum-hunting instead of discussing game mechanics. Yes it's necessary, but we're making too big a deal of it. I'm thinking I'll sleep N2, unless of course people want me to sleep at a different time. I'll probably have a case or case-like substance on easjo tomorrow.

I read an ISO of easjo, and she doesn't even make an attempt at scum-hunting*, unlike most of us. With the deadline and all, and of course she's scummiest to me,
Vote: easjo682 "

He starts off stating how he feels that everyone should start scum hunting instead of discussing about the sleep cycle. Then DISCUSSES ABOUT SLEEP CYCLE. His very next post he votes easjo for what reason? Oh yeah, not scum-hunting. Me=Weird has 8 posts... no one which have any scumhunting in it. He has contradicted himself twice in two posts.

Nikanor- Town. Although most of his attacks are on me . He definitely appears pro-town given that fact that he attempts to help find a solid synchronized sleep cycle along with genuine scum-hunting.

Pittbunny- Townish he seems genuinely interested in helping town come up with a decent sleep cycle. He posts a fair amount and is pretty logical with his suspicions.

ReaperCharlie- Neutral. He doesnt really have anything to say except to disagree with the proposed sleep schedule. Ill give him that we have been pretty devoted into creating a strong sleep cycle. Plus he disagreed with UK, and we know how that goes. What I dont like is his vote on ABR with no support behind it.

VV- Scummy. Similiar to ReaperCharlie he also disagrees with the sleep cycle. But the problem with him is the logic that he uses to defend his position. VV argues that Not Organizing is more beneficial than organizing, while RC just doesnt feel like organizing a sleep cycle is worth it. This what bothers me. In his attempts to defend his position, he also leaves many holes and mistakes in his argument which I tried to point out in my first post.

vIQleS- neutral v/la...

ABR- Definitely rings a scumbell with me. Mostly because I dont understand his play. He chooses to speak to easjo because he feels like he has a town read with her, according to easjos post 309. Yet, in the end he decides to hammer her. That is not the biggest problem though. He knew that she had the fetish crafting kit and was pretty certain UK was going to die if he hammered easjo. Why didnt he mention this I dont know couple hours before the deadline. Or even more, almost everyone accept UK including ABR himself had a town read on UK(according to easjos post 309), if anything he would at least suggest that Easjo drop the doll as to not kill UK. Four minutes after saying that it will probably kill UK he hammers easjo, his supposed confidante.?! Its almost like he wanted both of them to die.

Easjo- Town, her alignment was revealed.

Final mafia suspicions- ABR, VV, and Me=Weird

vote abr

[Kenman]

grab talisman of protection

[Kenman]

Ken: Why did you not say anything about me and how is it that PittBunny get's town points mostly for talking set up while not scum hunting

My bad lol.

Farside- Town. Pretty much the bulk of farside's posts seem to deal with the sleep cycle, at first, this gave me more a neutral read than a town read, but after two read throughs I feel she is most likely town, almost purely based on the way she analyses other people's posts and writes her own. Even her discussing the sleep cycle began to seem townish because of how in depth she went into seeing all possible scenarios. Not to mention, I like how she used other people's analysis of the sleep cycle to start her suspicions.

@pittbunny- Yah I kinda rushed yours a bit, I still have townish read on you though. If you want more in depth reasoning here it is. 1. Because I think VV is scum, I more inclined to believe that you arent, mostly because of how you attack her, far more than distancing would require(especially with the name calling). 2. In posts of the sleep cycle, you did contribute a good amount. Dont discredit yourself. In a series of like ten posts, you either question or anaylze Farside, Me, Nik, UK, and VV about their posts on the sleep cycle. Each time offering valid points. You adressed five different people in roughly ten posts, I just dont see scum drawing that much attention to themselves. Even though you didnt scum hunt much, your play still seems townish to me.

[Kenman]

I too would have chosen UK, since I had a stronger town read on her and the fact that she contributed much more in all aspects of the game.

[Kenman]

Hmm...I think I have enough data.

Easji, answer honestly.

Did you self-ressurect?

Stupid question, she had the fetish-doll.....

[Kenman]

stupid vote randomization didnt mean to vote chronopie....

vote abr

[Kenman]

Im for a Me=Weird lynch as well. As I stated in my previous thoughts, I think there is a strong possibility of him being scum.

vote me=weird

[Kenman]

grab festish crafting kit

grab burlap bag

Generally I would also agree that quick hammers are scummy. But in my case I have to disagree. First of all, WE GOT SCUM. Woot. Secondly, if he was my partner it would not make sense for me to quick lynch him so early on before he even got a chance to defend himself. Logically speaking, it would not make sense at all. Not only does that screw him in the back, but it also makes me look suspicious. I was sure he was mafia and I made a decision.

On another note I am confused on what pittbunny's plan is. She is not exactly on my confirmed town list so I want to see what the rest of the town wants to do.

[Kenman]

Given that Double voting is a more town aligned item, I'm calling Nik almost-confirmed town. Easjo flipped town, and was rezzed. Gut's telling me that Pitt's town.

otoh, I'm not liking VV at all.

@Ken: If you thought he was a liability, you might have quick-hammered him in order to minimise what he could have given away, and minimise links. (Assuming scum-buddies) And hammered scum for townie points.

--
I'm fairly confident on these reads, feel free to discuss.

Town

easjo682 (Ferdinand Kepples)
Chronopie (Marya Torr)
Nikanor (Vastedon Kowrelle)
Pittbunny (Rachella Harlek)

Scum (?)

VasudeVa (Theadora Lye)
Kenman (Gaston Hartley)
havingfitz (Jonqin Aldertoss)

I have suspected M=W since day two and VV from day one! You honestly think I accused them and put them in the spotlight from the beginning AND quick hammered my team mate as some sort of bus?! That really makes no sense. Im not sure what you are basing ANY of your assumptions on but your logic is frustrating me and you are either bad town or scum.

[Kenman]

@pitt- my letters are s, k

[Kenman]

hey guys I was out of town for july fourth weekend with no internet, sorry for the absence =(. I will do a reread and post my thoughts tonight or early tommorrow.

[Kenman]

Okay well I had sometime to reread briefly and appears I have attracted some suspicion, Id like to attempt to clear some of it up for you guys. In terms of a claim, although I would rather keep my item a secret. I guess the everyone feels it is better if we reveal our items.
I possess the Scroll of Knowledge- thats why I hinted at S,K. It is the mental insight ability that pittbunny mentioned today. It is basically a cop ability, each night or day I can select a person and have their role revealed to me. Obviously you can understand why I do not want to reveal this role since it will lead to my item being stolen or my inevitable night kill.

Regardless, here are my results: Day 1 -
Easjo, town

Night 2
Me= Weird, scum (This is why I quicklynched him, the opportunity to lynch scum came up without having to reveal my role) Im being completely honest.

Night 3
Pittbunny, town

Well those are my results, I hope that if someone has a some sort of protection item that they use it on me tonight as Im sure this will get me killed.

[Kenman]

@havingfits- I did it early on in the day to test it out.
Pittbunny- passing you the scroll...

[Kenman]

@hanvingfits- VV is correct, my item does not resolve till end of day, so I had no knowledge of her guilt or innocence until it was too late. And yeah, in all honesty it was a mistake to use it too early.

In my opinion i do not like how VV is refusing to reveal his item. It sounds somewhat fishy to me.
My guess is the that the burlap bag allows a player to hold additional items as I think everyones limit is six inventory. Assuming its not used for stealing.

[Kenman]

grab: sacred scroll of knowledge

[Kenman]

Ill use the scroll for now unless someone else wants it. Where I may or may not pass it to them before the lynch period. I suggest someone at least volunteer as I dont want to be the obvious night kill.

[Kenman]

@havingfits, I have the fetish-crafting kit. But likewise, its not as effective if I reveal it.

I think that revealing all our items is not the best idea. Since town have more items than the mafia do(assuming since there are more town members in general). We are giving away a large portion of our item advantage by revealing them. This is going to allow them to pick and choose who to NK based on what abilities are most harmful to them. I am somewhat suspicious of havingfits because I can potentially see this mass reveal as proscum. Dude I just revealed my kit and my COP ability, I dont think this is a good thing.
FOS havingfits

[Kenman]

cool guy having a party ^_^

[Kenman]

What does the pyskus daemonica do again? Ill have to rethink this and post my thoughts in a bit.

[Kenman]

vote havingfits

hes at lynch 1

[Kenman]

Oh god you two are scum aren't you.

No.. no..... your scum!

[Kenman]

lol I also accused VV early on but never actually put any pressure on him. Thought that was a give away. Also Me=Weird was some sort of third part member... Lucky enough to convince town that he was scum. I still dont know what his purpose was though.

@me=Weird- what the heck were you?

[Kenman]

P.S. good game Saint Kerrigan. Great Story and abilities, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Kenman]

Yah, i dont think scum team was that broken since when the game first started it was 2 scum and 10 town. I thought we were boned.