Mini 981: Descent into Chaos (Game Over)


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Post Post #600 (ISO) » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:53 pm

Post by Chronopie »

Well... Beyond Wifom, i.e. "I'm town" statements, I have no way to
prove
my towniness. Although I fail to see what benefit the PD would have been for scum.

I'm willing to believe Ken's results.

--

@Nik: I don't have the Encyclopedia. It would be impossible for me to hold it anyway. my IC is currently 3/6, the Encyclopedia is 4.

--

Updated town list:


Ani (Prev. Easjo)
Pitt
Ken
(Myself)
Nik

The Scum(?):


VasudeVa
havingfitz

--

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Post Post #601 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:32 am

Post by havingfitz »

OK...somewhat of a catch up from v/LA and holiday weekend commitments.

I now have Vasudeva saying the lynch is me or Chronopie (WTF?) and I’m making Chronopie’s top two list for scum as well. Do either of you have any reason or is it a) your scum trying to get a mislynch or b)a process of elimination that is at least 50% wrong?

Only concern I have considering Ani as town is the possibility that getting resurrected changes alignment. I do not think that is the case however and I’m comfortable to consider Ani as confirmed town.


I’m assuming there are three scum in the game so that leaves two left within Pitt, Ken, Chrono, Nik, VV and I.

Most of my suspicions are based on vote counts.

The first day’s lynch of easjo had five confirmed (due to their deaths/flips) townies on it. The only two ?s on the D1 lynch that are still in the game are Nik and Chrono. On a 7 player bandwagon I highly doubt there was only one scum on it. Ergo IMO Nik and/or Chrono are scum. I am inclined to think only one of them is scum and the other managed to lay off the mislynch.

The D2 lynch of ABR 2 confirmed/assumed town (RC and easjo) on it, one scum, and two ?s (kenman and Vasudeva. Chrono was sleeping...vIQleS (ie me) was awol and I had not joined yet. Pitt was still focused on RC and I do not know where farside and Nik were as neither placed a vote on D2...though each were able to put in claims for items.


On D3 there were two ?s that did not vote for Me=W. While it is possible (and likely IMO) that at least one scum was bussing Me=W...I don’t think both would. That leaves Chrono and Pitt as the only ?s not on the Me=W wagon. Once again...Chrono is in the mix. Coupled with his D1 vote, I’m focused on Chrono as scum.


The non-Chrono scum is a bit tougher read for me. Right now I am leaning towards VV and Nik being town based on their Me=W votes....but since I’m willing to consider that Me=W was bussed...that throws my VV/Nik town feeling out the window. I’m really not sure which of Ken, VV, Pitt, or Nik are town or scum.

Ken’s claim seem’s awfully convenient in that he has targeted what I consider confirmed town (easjo), confirmed scum via death flip, and Pitt. Not a who lot of controversy in that claim.

Question for Ken
....you say you investigated easjo on Day 1. At what point in the day did you make your investigation?


As for the item claims. I still don’t see the value in people knowing what everyone has. To me it comes across as rolefishing and/or making things easier for whomever the thief is to pick the items they want to steal. I stated what my action was last night which was a bit more than I was comfortable doing and a full on here are all the tiems I have claim just does not feel right.

If someone can tell me how a full on claim benefits town more than it does scum I am willing to consider but I think playing the majority of my games where town PRs (which is essentially what all the various item powers provide) close hold is the norm has conditioned me to this train of thought.

@ to all.
Other than easjo/Ani...are there any players that have a high probability of being considered town and if so...who and why? If I’m missing some obv town tells I would appreciate them being brought up to help me hone in on scum.


tl:dr
- I think Chrono is scum and I'm still trying to determine in my mind who the other is.

That said...I am with holding a vote on Chrono because I plan to use one of my items on him this evening which will confirm to me his alignment. I would prefer to actually use my vote on whomever the next preferred non-HF candidate is.
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Post Post #602 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:53 am

Post by VasudeVa »

Claims benefit Town because it can measure how powerful Town is vs Scum. Although, since this is an inventory based game(ie. PRs are not the person, but the items.), I'm not so sure now.

I am opposed to claiming if and only if your item(s) will not be as effective if they are claimed(non-self targeting doctor, etc.). I have one such item.

---

Zombie cult speculation is retarded. ReaperCharlie ressurected ani. Reaper flipped town. End of discussion.

---

I think the Me=W lynch makes me, you, Chrono and Kenman Town primarily on how fast it went. Then again, I'm also open to the possibility of an Accidental bus. (in which, you are my primary suspect, since you were next right after my vote. Although, you can hold the same argument against me.)

I see no reason for this to not end in a Chrono lynch at this point, unless Chrono has an excellent defense.

Vote: Chrono
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Post Post #603 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:13 am

Post by havingfitz »

VasudeVa wrote:Claims benefit Town because it can measure how powerful Town is vs Scum. Although, since this is an inventory based game(ie. PRs are not the person, but the items.), I'm not so sure now.

I am opposed to claiming if and only if your item(s) will not be as effective if they are claimed(non-self targeting doctor, etc.). I have one such item.
Yeah...but town doesn’t know who town are....so I’m still not seeing how anyone is measuring anything other than scum measuring who they need to either steal from (assuming they have that capability) or NK.
VasudeVa wrote:Zombie cult speculation is retarded. ReaperCharlie ressurected ani. Reaper flipped town. End of discussion.
Someone else had brought this up as a possibility which is why it’s in the back of my mind. I do not think it would be the case hence my content to think Ani town.
VasudeVa wrote:I think the Me=W lynch makes me, you, Chrono and Kenman Town primarily on how fast it went. Then again, I'm also open to the possibility of an Accidental bus. (in which, you are my primary suspect, since you were next right after my vote. Although, you can hold the same argument against me.)
I don’t recall how quick the lynch played out so accidental isn’t much of a consideration for me. If scum is one the Me=W wagon I think whoever it might be is fine with the possibility they lose a partner.
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Post Post #604 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:16 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

VasudeVa wrote:Zombie cult speculation is retarded. ReaperCharlie ressurected ani. Reaper flipped town. End of discussion.
This. So much, this.
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Post Post #605 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:05 am

Post by havingfitz »

animorpherv1 wrote:
VasudeVa wrote:Zombie cult speculation is retarded. ReaperCharlie ressurected ani. Reaper flipped town. End of discussion.
This. So much, this.
Hey Ani...since I assume most people are considering you town...could you provide some analysis? It might be of use...assistance...value to the other town members.

I haven't seen any yet from you and I assume (having never played with you before) it would be a good thing.
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Post Post #606 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:22 am

Post by Nikanor »

I think it's interesting that fitz throws doubt on ani's alignment, considering he's the one with the Encyclopaedia Daemonica.
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Post Post #607 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:59 am

Post by Pittbunny »

I'd like to hope that Chrono, with his cooperation in the last two days towards my watcher efforts isn't scum.

However, that's not my most pressing concern.
Why are there so many alignment-checking item claims? Something is horribly wrong with that. I counted at least three, and considering one claim is for a unlim-use item, I'm of the belief that at least one person purporting the ability to check alignment is lying, ESPECIALLY seeing as no one stepped forward during my little song and dance regarding Mental Insight over the last week.
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Post Post #608 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:00 am

Post by havingfitz »

Nikanor wrote:I think it's interesting that fitz throws doubt on ani's alignment, considering he's the one with the Encyclopaedia Daemonica.
Where do you read me casting dount on Ani? Do any of these clips from my posts today confuse you?
havingfitz wrote:Only concern I have considering Ani as town is the possibility that getting resurrected changes alignment. I do not think that is the case however
and I’m comfortable to consider Ani as confirmed town
.
havingfitz wrote:
VasudeVa wrote:Zombie cult speculation is retarded. ReaperCharlie ressurected ani. Reaper flipped town. End of discussion.
Someone else had brought this up as a possibility which is why it’s in the back of my mind. I do not think it would be the case
hence my content to think Ani town
.
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Post Post #609 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:02 am

Post by Pittbunny »

FYI I think I was the one that started zombie speculation. SK's flavor confirms it. It's still a pet theory in the back of my mind, but I don't have the tools to be able to check it. =P
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Post Post #610 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:12 am

Post by Nikanor »

Whatever, fitz.
Vote: havingfitz.
Vote: havingfitz.


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Post Post #611 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:43 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

havingfitz wrote:
animorpherv1 wrote:
VasudeVa wrote:Zombie cult speculation is retarded. ReaperCharlie ressurected ani. Reaper flipped town. End of discussion.
This. So much, this.
Hey Ani...since I assume most people are considering you town...could you provide some analysis? It might be of use...assistance...value to the other town members.

I haven't seen any yet from you and I assume (having never played with you before) it would be a good thing.

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Post Post #612 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:59 am

Post by Chronopie »

@hf: my lists were via PoE:

-Ani (Easjo) Flipped Town, rezzed. (Also copped)
-Pitt, M.I cop cleared

-Chrono, Watcher item from start
-Ken, Cop item from start

-Nik, DV from start

--

-VV, No claim
-hf, No claim?

--

In the case of items, I don't see what use (alignment) cop or (nerfed) watcher would be to scum, therefore they're inherently town items. Idk if it's actually an alignment cop, but judging from claimed results... (Town, Scum, Town)

(Role cop would be pointless, we already are named, items = PRs = Passable around)
(Item cop???)

DV otoh... Could be used to rebalance UP scum. But the fact his item was stolen suggests town.

--

Care to claim item(s), effect(s), results (if any)? Or el ropo?
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Post Post #613 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:24 pm

Post by Pittbunny »

Does anyone have an item that might be of adequate use to a randomized person? I'd like it, if that were to be the case. In the meantime, seeing as Nik decided to push two votes:
Grab: Psykus Daemonica
so it's not on the ground in the event of a quicklynch.
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Post Post #614 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:46 pm

Post by Kenman »

@havingfits- I did it early on in the day to test it out.
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Post Post #615 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:27 pm

Post by havingfitz »

Nikanor wrote:Whatever, fitz.
Vote: havingfitz.
Vote: havingfitz.


If you're not going to co-operate, you can be the one to die.
You make an accusation towards me, I show two posts from the
same page
that prove your accusation wrong and your reply is 'whatever?' That's some quality analysis Nik. :roll: Do you have a legitimate reason for voting me?
animorpherv1 wrote:
havingfitz wrote:
animorpherv1 wrote:
VasudeVa wrote:Zombie cult speculation is retarded. ReaperCharlie ressurected ani. Reaper flipped town. End of discussion.
This. So much, this.
Hey Ani...since I assume most people are considering you town...could you provide some analysis? It might be of use...assistance...value to the other town members.

I haven't seen any yet from you and I assume (having never played with you before) it would be a good thing.
my first day when I replace in, I normally do a bit of watching.
Considering this could be the last day of the game, and/or your last day since you are confirmed town...you may want to look over the three days prior to this day and put some effort into the game. :(

Speaking of Ani being a target since he is confirmed town...why wasn't Nik targetted last night? Wouldn't scum be more afraid of DVtown than Obvtown? (Note to Nik...that is throwing doubt on your alignment).
Kenman wrote:@havingfits- I did it early on in the day to test it out.
If you knew easjo's alignment early in the game...why did you make
zero effort
to clear him on D1. Not even a subtle disagreement with any of the suspicions towards him as far as I can tell. And you used the power early to 'test it out?' That's pretty weak rationale. The description of the ability did not make it obvious what it's function was? Was it unclear enough to require a 'test?'
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Post Post #616 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:01 pm

Post by VasudeVa »

Because the items resolve AT THE END of the day, not at the time you send the action. I'm waiting on Kenman's explanation too though.

The watcher item might be there to give scum an idea on what PRs are available in game for them to use.
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Post Post #617 (ISO) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:12 pm

Post by Pittbunny »

It wouldn't be neutered if that were the case.
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Post Post #618 (ISO) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:27 am

Post by havingfitz »

Reading back a bit to catch up...

Nik, you mention I'm not co-operating although I think I have. As I was about to reiterate that I see no benefit to people knowing what everyone owns, it dawned on me that if we know what everyone has we'll know when something is used and by whom (and iirc no one has pointed this out). Also, if thefts were to resume we would have a good chance of knowing who stole it based on what item was dropped (assuming a drop is required of the thief to take on a new item).

Therefore in the interest of full disclosure....my role’s original item is a map that allows tracking. I have not used it yet because last night, as mentioned, I self-protected and could not track at the same time. That fact I self protected indicates I have an additional item...which as Nik hypothesized...is the Encyclopedia Daemonica. Powers include: a one phase Masonry, Self-protection (used last night), Resurrection, Randomization, and an ability I used prior to going v/LA today to ensure it would take place in case there was another short day. I won’t mention what it is as it will be made useless if it is known. Four abilities have been used. The first two by Reaper, the self protect by me last night, and the ??? I used today that will become apparent at the end of the day. Once the last power is used, the book resets. So the soonest it would reset is D6...assuming we get that far.

Now the only unknown item remaining is Vasudeva’s.

Regarding the stealing that was going on earlier in the game. Considering the Burlap Bag was dropped after Me=W was lynched and it had an item that farside had stolen in it...I think it’s safe to say the Burlap Bag is involved. Nik...you claim the bag has no stealing powers. Can you give it to another player to confirm? If Nik is telling the truth and the bag doesn’t enable theft...does that mean Me=W had a separate item that enabled theft? I doubt stealing would be a power inherent to a player’s role and not a separate item. And as nothing else dropped when Me=W died...I find it difficult to believe the bag does not enable theft.

What say you Nik? With Rejuvenation, Double-voting, and what I think is the ability to steal....you sir are a very powerful player (which makes me wonder why scum has avoided you). If the Burlap Bag does not enable stealing are you saying Me=W either had an inherent ability to steal (which I doubt) or that he possessed an additional item which did not drop when he was lynched? Can someone else borrow the Burlap Bag to see if it has the ability to steal?

Also, Nik...re the Amulet...you say
“Amulet of Gatos (Double Vote) - Note: Although it is my item, it has never actually been proven to be the source of my second vote, hence the lack of greenliess”
. Doesn't the Amulet come with a description? Why would you think you have some other means of double voting if you possess an item that is continually associated (by you) with the ability to double vote? This comment just seems off to me.




@ Ani...you said you have sleep deprevation plan to sleep on the next Day Phase. Why wouldn’t you sleep tonight if any actions you may perform would be even more randomized (since you are deprived now and it will only be worse tonight) and therefore have a high probability they will be unsuccessful.

Also, @Ani...per Nik's book keeping you appear to have no inventory items? If so...even more reason to sleep tonight. If no one has passed Ani a protective ability I would suggest they do so (even though the return on investment is questionable). Although...if you did get a protective ability...would you be able to use it and sleep? And how would your current state of sleep deprevation effect any self protection items you did happen to possess/obtain?
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Post Post #619 (ISO) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:49 am

Post by havingfitz »

Further reading.....(slow day)....
There are two missing items.

Fetish-Crafting Kit is with either Pitt, Ken or Nik (while Nik has a lot already..the burlap bag could be allowing room for the FCK)
Talisman of Protection is with either Pitt or Vasudeva.

Is there any reason to not know where they are in this era of enlightenment?
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Post Post #620 (ISO) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:13 am

Post by SaintKerrigan »

Suddenly, Marya stopped and stared intensely down a side passage to her left. I quickly strode up to her and asked, "What's going on?"

She pointed ahead of her. "There, far in the distance. Can you see it?"

I looked down the tunnel. "I don't see it."

Without warning, she extinguished her light. "How about now?"

"Hey!" complained Jonqin. "The daemon are you doing, Marya?"

Now that it was dark, however, what Marya had spotted was plain to see. "There's a light down there, guys," I told the others.

"Really?" Rachella's voice trembled excitedly. "Like a way out?"

"Maybe." Something seemed off about that light, though. It seemed too yellow to be outdoor light. And the sense of foreboding in my mind was stronger than ever before...

Marya activated her light spell again. "Well, let's check it out."

She and the others proceeded to enter the corridor. I followed silently, my thoughts as dark as the caverns behind us. I'd never been the religious type, but I couldn't help but pray to the gods that doing this was not the bad idea my mind made it out to be...


Vote Count 4.4


(2) havingfitz: Nikanor, Nikanor
(1) Chronopie: VasudeVa

Not Voting: animorpherv1, Chronopie, Kenman, Pittbunny, havingfitz

With 7 players alive and no players sleeping, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
Deadline is Saturday, July 10th, at 10:00 a.m. CST.


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Post Post #621 (ISO) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:38 am

Post by VasudeVa »

The Burlap sack as a stealing item doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that it was an inherent ability. I think it's like a mod countermeasure to mass dropping. The kill is probably a factional ability. I seriously doubt that this is a game where scum can lose their ability to kill AND give the kill power to Town provided how powerful this Town is shaping up to be.

I don't want to claim my item because it loses effectiveness once claimed. I tried to pass it to Nikanor(who is obvobvobvTown.) so he can confirm it, but it failed.
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Post Post #622 (ISO) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:37 am

Post by Kenman »

@hanvingfits- VV is correct, my item does not resolve till end of day, so I had no knowledge of her guilt or innocence until it was too late. And yeah, in all honesty it was a mistake to use it too early.

In my opinion i do not like how VV is refusing to reveal his item. It sounds somewhat fishy to me.
My guess is the that the burlap bag allows a player to hold additional items as I think everyones limit is six inventory. Assuming its not used for stealing.
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Post Post #623 (ISO) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:49 am

Post by Pittbunny »

Received the Scroll of Knowledge. Mental Insight is indeed its ability, and it does check for alignment. Therefore, can we make it a safe assumption to say that I am town, and that at least one person that isn't Kenman is probably lying about an alignment-checker? I'm still distrustful of the prospect of three investigative abilities, especially knowing that a mini-watcher is in play. The potential of abuse were we to have massclaimed much earlier doesn't make it seem possible.

@Fitz. Psyweed was inventory 1, PsyDae was inventory 4. Ergo I don't have any items other than those I've claimed to have come in to contact with.

Drop Scroll of Knowledge

Unless Kenman permits it, no one else is to hold on to this for more than a day. That is to say, Kenman better get this back so he can choose to either use it or redistribute it.
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Post Post #624 (ISO) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:51 am

Post by Pittbunny »

@Vasu: Pass it to me. My only chance of being scum with you being the only person to outwardly suspect me would be if Chrono, Kenman AND I were scum. Otherwise Chrono would have noticed issues and pushed for my lynch, or Kenman would have found me guilty and gotten me lynched. Those have not occurred.
"Not exactly related to the topic as a whole but what's the deal with putting quotes in your signature that have no relevance to your own life?" - Ythan

Jesters are also Decade's fault. ONORE DECADE!

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