Mini 964: Another Story - Over!

[Chevre]

/confirm.

[Chevre]

Vote: Cuetlachti

because that is not a name I want to spell for the duration of the game.

My (very succinct) replies to Red_Star's questions.

1. Slowish. I don't want it sluggish, nor do I like wall o' posts.
2. Truthfully, a logic game. I'm borderline believing all the psychological stuff is a conspiracy
3. Yes.
4. No.
5. No.
6. Passive.

Vote: Yabba - Answerring the questions and then saying what you said about the questioner seems scummy to me.

I agree. If yabbaguy wouldn't have answered the questions and said that, I would have understood his response better.

Everyone (other than Elias) : Why didfn't you comment on Elias' serious vote before random voting?

I don't think

you

did.

[Chevre]

Unvote

Vote: yabbaguy

I believe that some experimental pressure will give us additional data to work with.

I'm really doubting the usefulness of this. I don't think yabbaguy will react any differently if he knows it's a pressure vote.

[Chevre]

Here, and will reread ASAP. I had graduation this weekend. Sorry.

[Chevre]

Well, not much to go on, but anyway:

RedStar: Will you agree that your pressure vote was useless after you deemed it a pressure vote?

Also, where has Empking gone?

That's about all I have to say. Hopefully as more posts filter in I can respond bette.

[Chevre]

I definitely do not like the looks of Thief's case. He couldn't predict how yabbaguy was going to react, and then he tries to get him no matter what by saying he should be scumhunting instead of defending himself. If he's got any sort of case against him, he should be permitted to defend himself.

[Chevre]

Everyone (other than RS): Summiest player out of me or Jag?

JagJohan.

[Chevre]

Chevre hopping on Jag is abrupt IIRC- I'd like to know why.

It's not abrupt or hopping. Empking wanted everyone to answer his question, and that's what I did. And I didn't vote Jag Johan.

[Chevre]

Vibe: on RealityFan, I'm always looking for possible relationships, and I see hints of buddying between him and RedStar. Otherwise, he looks decently town.

[Chevre]

SSBF: Oops, I forgot the ScummyScale part. As for that, I'm not sure how it's set up, like if it's 1 means twon, 5 is neutral, and 10 is scum, or if its 1 is lsightly scummy, and 10 is supermega scummy. On the first, I'd give a 4, on the second, a 2-maybe-3.

yabbaguy: I think you may be overstating my activity. Maybe in comparison to the rest of this game is active, but it isn't very active. I just want to mention this because you are using it as part of your case, and I think you are pushing too hard.

That being said...

Let's see who has been more active then Chevre in terms of posts counts

I hate measuring activity by post counts, because if it's a one-liner or a wall-post, they're both 1 post. Also, if you post a lot in one section of the game and lurk the way through, that's not being active. I'm not saying I have much more actual stuff, but if you are going to measure activity, do it not by post count, but intsead by content and MAYBE frequency (like, as in how far spread apart the posts are).

[Chevre]

SSBF: Oops, I forgot the ScummyScale part. As for that, I'm not sure how it's set up, like if it's 1 means twon, 5 is neutral, and 10 is scum, or if its 1 is lsightly scummy, and 10 is supermega scummy. On the first, I'd give a 4, on the second, a 2-maybe-3.

yabbaguy: I think you may be overstating my activity. Maybe in comparison to the rest of this game is active, but it isn't very active. I just want to mention this because you are using it as part of your case, and I think you are pushing too hard.

That being said...

Let's see who has been more active then Chevre in terms of posts counts

I hate measuring activity by post counts, because if it's a one-liner or a wall-post, they're both 1 post. Also, if you post a lot in one section of the game and lurk the way through, that's not being active. I'm not saying I have much more actual stuff, but if you are going to measure activity, do it not by post count, but intsead by content and MAYBE frequency (like, as in how far spread apart the posts are).

Good posting by SSBF.

Can you please tell us why his posts are sooooooooo good?

[Chevre]

Re: Chevre-Did you find that it was not good posting? I liked his analysis, that's all.

It was activity, yes, but I'm not sure I thought it was good. I don't think it was so good as to someone posting that exact sentiment and switching their vote to match.

[Chevre]

Re: Chevre-Did you find that it was not good posting? I liked his analysis, that's all.

It was activity, yes, but I'm not sure I thought it was good. I don't think it was so good as to someone posting that exact sentiment and switching their vote to match.

[Chevre]

Re: Chevre-Did you find that it was not good posting? I liked his analysis, that's all.

It was activity, yes, but I'm not sure I thought it was good. I don't think it was so good as to someone posting that exact sentiment and switching their vote to match.

[Chevre]

Yeah, I figured it was going to triple post. *sigh*

But in all relevancy, this is the kind of stuff that makes measuring activity by post count so inaccurate. What should have been one post is counted four times as of this post.

[Chevre]

Unvote

Empking: If/When the deadline is announced, I'll answer that question. I'd also like a chance to reread.

[Chevre]

OK, here goes my reread. I'm probably going to repeat things I've already posted, so I apologize in advance.

First, I'd like to point out some of the answers to Red Star's questions:

2. Both
5. It can be.

4. Sometimes.
5. Sometimes.

2. Again, both.

I quoted these not only to mention their brevity, but also their blatant fence-sitting with no explanation. If they would have given explanations, I could see their reasoning, but now, it looks like they're waitng for the rest of the players' opinions and then take a stance. Sadly, most of them have flaked, so we won't be getting many explanations. And yes, my answers are brief too, but they take blatant, yes/no stances.

ANYBODY can answer these questions eloquently and look like a pro-town player.

While I agree that random questions don't really accomplish much. But I don't see how a few questions could possibly be used by scum to get town cred. It seems like you're thinking like scum here without necessity. Seeing as I'm not fond of random voting, good enough to warrant a vote: yabbaguy

I'm endless confused by this. What yabbaguy said was true, and I don't think he's thinking scummily. Even if he is, shouldn't we try to imagine how scum is dealing with this situation? That way, we can look for similarities and point them out.

I tend to disagree. It's not really about looking like a pro-town player at this point either - it's getting to know each other's playstyles, thoughts about mafia in general, etc.

But the point yabbaguy was trying to make was that scum would lie about their playstyle and it wouldn't get us much of anywhere.

It seems like you
1. Don't want to seem scummy by not answering the questions.
2. Want to gain brownie points by attacking the questioner.

I may be vehemently fence-sitting here, but I thought this point by Empking was very good.

Dr. Cyanide: Are you trying to act stupid/scummy.

In the 3 posts Dr. Cyanide made before this post by Empking, the only possible scumminess is the OMGUS that was obviously a joke.

This feels like a trap. If he hadn't answered and criticized he probably would have been met with a bunch of "Why don't you want to give info. Anti-Town!".

But he could have done one or the other, and been perfectly fine.

Was his vote serious? I thought it was somewhat random, although I can see where you're coming from. I don't necessarily think that yabba's actions were worthy of a serious vote. That being said, I don't find the vote itself all that scummy.

Read ett's post. He states a dislike for the RVS, which therefore clarifies his vote as serious.

I asked that (for the most part*) in order to see if I should judge his actions as those done by a silly player.

I very much doubt that. Sorry to delve into syntax here, but you ended with a period, which makes it sound like a snarky snappy comment, not in any way a question. This looks like a poorly-made cover-up due to all the attention the comment received.

Empking: Why are you attacking people for tiny stuff, why do you think it so important? And why didn't you defend yourself against my accusation?

Um, because this is a game of ferreting out the reasoning behind little details? I haven't comment on any JJ posts prior to this because it really wasn't worth it.

This post just looks like scum trying too hard to be town. Asking half-hearted questions just because other people in the game tell you too doesn't feel right to me.

I can agree with this.

The questions wasn't really serious. Maybe I should have used a smilie.

So they weren't serious, but they weren't half-hearted? So they were like fully fleshed-out funny questions? ???

Thirdly, I don't really think Jag is acting scummy. I don't think he understands how the game works, judging by that "ok" post. Seems to have some problems with English.

I think I'm going to agree here for now and see what his replacement says.

How's that ISO coming? Nice twist, I never told him not to mount a defense. I said he should focus on scumhunting and not solely on his own defense that he seems so worried about.

This isn't a good defense of your post. You told him to focus on one thing rather than another, which I take to mean "stop doing this thing and start doing that thing." If you told me what you told yabbaguy, and by some paranormal event I actually obliged to do it, I would only scumhunt.

Not going to quote it's entirety, but one of the things I noticed in Red Star's post-analysis is that he never mentions himself. It's mentioned later, but I know the ones where I've mentioned him he marked as "Fluff," which is a cop-out anyway, because every post has something in it, even if irrelevant. The only time "Fluff" is acceptable is if someone posts a pillow fight.

That said and done, Unvote, Vote: Empking, mainly due to his post 19 and

general lack of content

Bolded for emphasis. To use an analogy (I think) here, if Empking is lacking content, then I must have not even posted.

Yeah it is. It is always a scum tell.

So how scummy are Cuetlachti/RealityFan, Dr.Cyanide, and Deer? I'm asking because I don't agree with your stance on OMGUS, and only Dr. Cyanide is one of your top two suspects.

-----
So, opinions -

Deer - I feel as though he sometimes tends to skim and doesn't answer to the best of his ability. Perk up, Deer! Neutral-barely-leaning-town.

Dr.Cyanide - Let there be a replacement on earth, and let it be one for Dr. Cyanide. Neutral-barely-leaning-scum.

Elias_the_thief - His most notable contribution IMO was the post at the end of page 1. Since then, he's been under the radar. Neutral-leaning-scum.

Empking - great contributions, but sometimes he makes errors that just make me wonder. Neutral-leaning-town.

MrSandman - replacement of sorasgoof was a happy occurrence, but I still need more from MrSandman to get a proper read. Neutral.

Red Star - He started very active with his questions, but he's kind of fallen down and his "fluffy" Post-analysis is one of the scummiest things in this game. Leaning-scum.

Super Smash Bros. Fan - JJ was somewhat wishy-washy, and now SSBF is very aggressive. I'd like him to answer my question before I put a stance on him.

Thief - Wagonhopper extraordinaire. His "Just focus on..." attack of yabbaguy" is probably the scummiest thing so far. Leaning-very-scum.

VibeBox - Been decently active, and he contributes. However, no big game-shaking comments. Neutral-leaning-town.

yabbaguy - He has received much scrutiny, and while most of it is poorly given, some points, such as the "1 AND 2 instead of 1 OR 2" point, is well received. However, his frustration is perfectly reasonable, and I want to apologize for not contributing as much as I should. Neutral-barely-leaning scum.

-----
So Empking, I'm going to answer your question early. My top to suspects are Thief and Red Star.
-----
So, questions -

Deer: since you're still here, care to explain your "sometimes" answers on Questions 4 and 5 by Red Star?
SSBF: there is a question for you just above my opinions.

-----

Vote: Thief

[Chevre]

SSBF: Super oops. For some reason I thought Post 26 was an OMGUS by Deer. Never mind.

All this adds up to Jag lying about his suspicions which can only be scummy. Post 92's "Yeah, I look scummy but let's talk about someone else..." is icing on the cake.

You are certainly correct in the scumminess of this; however, I've somewhat discredited Jag Johan posts as we weren't exactly sure if he had a language barrier/trouble understanding the game.

...to make a case typically gets flak for it; his willingness to do so

Unfinished sentence? You left me at a cliffhanger there.

Unvote;
Vote: SSBF
WARNING L-1

Apparently, Thief, you believe SSBF posts well but he still deserves your vote.

---

Right now I'm going to compare SSBF and Thief in ISO, because apparently SSBF is way scummier and I just don't get it.

[Chevre]

Vote: Thief

This should have been the Day 1 lynch, so putting him at L-1 is completely plausible IMO.

[Chevre]

I abandoned my reads in favor of Pie who seems like he actually has read the thread carefully.

Maybe if you carefully read the thread yourself you could form some unique opinions instead of being a wagonhopper.

Nailed it right on the head. Don't pretend this is anything more than a nulltell though it will just make you look stupid later.

This sounds like scare tactics. Though I'm curious why you did jump on that bandwagon, if anything more than this reason.

[Chevre]

[/quote="VibeBox"]giving him the option as Scum to self-hammer[/quote]

I'm confused. Wouldn't that be a good thing?

On Red Star, he is my second suspect, but he is far less suspicious than Thief.

[Chevre]

It is your turn to claim. You're going first.

[Chevre]

Unvote: Thief

, but

FoS: Thief

yabbaguy has already pointed out that your Tracker target makes little sense, but since there has been no counterclaim yet, I'm unvoting you.

[Chevre]

This is a mini, there isn't necessarily going to BE a tracker CC (there might not be a tracker), and even if there is one it's difficult to assess whether or not there is two (but for balancing purposes I doubt two town trackers). Long story short: if you believe he is scum, you should have your vote on him. Since the wagon is losing a bit of steam, are you not as gung ho?

Either way, who else do you believe is scum?

His wagon isn't losing steam, yabbaguy and pie are the only ones who have talked about it and neither has really completely believed or discredited the claim. I unvoted because it's a power role claim, which is important enough for me to unvote. My other top suspect would be Red Star/replacement.

I'm up for massclaim.

[Chevre]

Because he seems to have disappeared after his questions in the beginning of the game, and then his PBPA referred to all posts by others that mentioned him as "fluff".

[Chevre]

Unsight your vote is still on me.

Unvote:
Vote: Chevre

I could see reasoning for this if VB had claimed a PR, but he didn't. Care to explain?

[Chevre]

There isn't much to respond to, except for the fact that PE wondered why it was such a problem that you investigated Deer, who he replaced. That whole scenario seems really strange.

And you still haven't explained your vote.

[Chevre]

Your case

is ridiculous. I forced myself to put them leaning something. True fence-sitting would have been merely saying "neutral" for everyone one. And I couldn't put "SCUM" or "TOWN" for every persone either; I was NEVER that sure. I took my slightest gut feelings and used them to make sure they weren't neutral. I feel like your entire case doesn't represent my play, and it doesn't make sense.

[Chevre]

I wanted to put everyone somewhere that was not neutral. I wanted to have an opinion that was at least somewhat one way or the other. And why would I have said what you wanted me to say? That would've been a lie. My stances gave other players my opinions and a good starting point.

As for your completely unrelated question, no.

[Chevre]

Vanilla, though not as flashy

I want to choose Red_Star, but I'm not sure if we should wait for a reply/replacement. Opinions on this?

PE: I reread the game. That means I read everybody thoughts, and everybody had posted, so everyone had some sort of read.

[Chevre]

Plus I don't need to scumhunt when my town reads (you Pie, and Deerguy) will do it for me. I'll just piggy back off your reasoning for today until I get a guilty.

First point: EVERY TOWN MEMBER scumhunts.

Second point: If you really were a tracker, you'd be concerned about even living into tomorrow now that you've claimed, and because we have no certainty of a doctor, I have a feeling you are scum who isn't concerned about being killed.

Re-

Vote: Thief

[Chevre]

@Chevre - Would you elaborate on your second point? What do you feel Thief should be doing to "be concerned about evening living into tomorrow" that he isn't?

What I meant is that Thief wants us to wait until he gets a guilty result. We aren't entirely sure we have a doctor, so how would Thief know he would be alive to give us any guilty results he gets?

I will choose Unsight next to claim. This may not sound serious, but there something about how she put herself at the end of her claim chart that bugs me.

[Chevre]

pie_is_good: I chose Unsight over ZeroFang because I knew ZeroFang hadn't read yet, and wanted to give him a chance to read the whole game.

[Chevre]

First, Unsight, Jalyn probably thought we were going to continue with you instead of her, but apparently:

In popcorn claiming, you choose your best scum reads (or next scummiest) to claim next because it's town's advantage to force scum to claim early so they live in fear of being CC'd by townies who claim later. Incidentally, that's why I put myself at the bottom of my chart. I intend to claim last so the scum all have to claim before me.

This is hypocritical. You seem to advocate popcorn claiming, yet demand that you claim last. If this was the strategy of popcorn claiming, then EVERYONE would want to claim last, scum or town. You are apparently deeming yourself much more town in appearance than everyone else, which is definitely not the case.