Mini 950: DCI Mafia (The Results Are In...)

[Nicodemus]

/prosoft

Hello everyone, looking forward to playing with you. Slaxx, Navy, Parama, looking forward to playing with you again (unless you ml me D1 in this game too Parama ) and of course hello to our lovely mod ToD.

RQS? OK.

1. How much experience do you have playing mafia? Please include any off site forums which you play to.
   I've played a few games here, two games on Scorehero (with Parama and Navy), and many games on EpicMafia.com, which is a chat based mafia site.
   
   
2. What would you say is your scum meta is?
   Well, according to Stars Aligned II, it's to be lynched D1 . But to answer the question about as well as I can, I think at EpicMafia I am much more sure of myself and my reads as scum than as town (I know this is obvious, but I'm talking about from an observer's standpoint), and I try to drive mislynches by using "scumslips"
   
   
3. What would you say your town meta is?
   Not too good. As I've gotten more experienced, people seem to find me inherently more scummy (which I really don't understand, but whatever). Also, I find it very hard to trust other players as town, because I can't get past the idea that they're scum slipping under my radar.
   
   
4. Someone just got quicklynched, and is town. What do you do?
   This question is too vague for me to answer accurately, but I'll try. If there was a really good reason they were quicklynched (they were caught in a lie, deadline was approaching and there was solid evidence, whatever) I wouldn't really worry about it. In most cases, though, I would look at the wagon and how it built, both the people who got on with little or no reasoning and those that jumped on at the end.
   
   
5. Same situation, but quicklynched is scum.
   It's hard for me to see this occuring barring a cop guilty or something like that, but I would definitely think that the mafia's scumbuddy(es) were on his wagon, and look closely to see if any of my scumreads matched up with the wagoners. I would also look at the end of the wagon, especially if by quicklynching conversation was cut off.
   
   
6. Your #1 scum read got NK'ed last night, and you have no reads on anyone else, and it's LYLO. What do you do?
   Berate myself for only having one scum read at lylo, because honestly this situation should never happen. Then I'd go back, look at wagons and voting patterns, and find a new #1

[Nicodemus]

Lol didn't I do that too Nic?

Haha, yeah I guess so, but I wasn't trying at all in that game so it didn't really matter as much to me. Parama basically just called me scum in his 2nd post of the game, sat on his vote all day, then got the town to sheep me at the end of the day when a policy lynch that I was leading fizzled out (it was on a SK btw). I was pretty bitter about that one.

But yeah, that's what I mean about people thinking I'm inherently scummy. I've been ml-ed twice on d1 in the last two games I've played .

[Nicodemus]

Hey guys, sorry for the absence this weekend, I'll make sure to get a post up tomorrow.

[Nicodemus]

vote: Nicodemus

because he said his town meta is scummy

So did Starbuck. Why be selective here?

Vote: animorpherv1

For the weak FoS comboed with a failure to vote change. Isn't my being the only person to refuse to answer your random questions a better reason than the one behind your random vote? If not, why the FoS?

Lnyhcing players who call their town play scummy is not a random vote.

Just to clarify, are you pushing for a policy lynch? Also, as above, Starbuck said this too. I'd accept it as a reason to vote if you were consistent, but here it just looks like you're aiming for me specifically.

You wanted to take the leadership role so you can get a lynch wagon going. It's

likely

a ML.

Unless I'm misinterpreting, you already have a strong town read on ani? Could you confirm or deny this?

That is just the way Nacho plays. I have played with him before and he is pretty good at picking out mafia. He is a very striaghtforward player who isnt afraid to throw around his vote and use it to his advantage.

Nacho's thought pattern is clear. He was using his vote as a means of pressuring people who haven't contributed or contributed in a while. He was satisfied with the answer and moved on to the next person. When I feel his vote is uncalled for or I start feeling he isnt contributing, then I will ask him why.

I got Nacho's vote after he posted that, I'm an idiot...

Yeah, backtracking is never a good move. It just makes you look like you were BSing and now want to appease everyone by backing down. While I don't think that you were scummy for the earlier discussion with slaxx (because theory discussion is always nothing more or less than a null tell) this latest development is pretty bad.

FoS: kunkstar

, because L-2 is a little too hot for me right now.

Other scummy peoples:

muh

looks scummy for only RVing when called out on it.

ani

is suspicious for advocating a policy lynch when another player is equally applicable for that same lynch, based on the criteria of the policy. Why me instead of Starbuck?

Nacho

, while not scummy per se, gets a spot here because of his playstyle. I'll accept slaxx's meta of him for now, but I hope that he'll start playing more transparently soon.

Vote: muh

[Nicodemus]

Nic, Parama is talking from a different point of view in that post. He is assuming (rather strongly) that nacho is scum and that of course a wagon led by a scum is likely to be (but no guaranteed)on a townie.

hush, let Parama answer on his own please.

[Nicodemus]

Nic, Parama is talking from a different point of view in that post. He is assuming (rather strongly) that nacho is scum and that of course a wagon led by a scum is likely to be (but no guaranteed)on a townie.

viewtopic.php?t=13074&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0Replaced into this one.

viewtopic.php?t=13277Played this one from the start.

[Nicodemus]

Eh, I can see what you guys are saying about Looker, but he's done so little this game I'm not sure it means scum, just disinterested town. Right now I'm more comfortable voting ani, his current lurking added to his early game shenanigans is much more scummy than Looker right now.

Vote: ani

Go go competing bandwagons!

[Nicodemus]

EBWOP: bah, forgot to unvote.

Unvote, Vote: ani

There are too many lurkers in this game to scumhunt effectively. I mean, Stephiscope has done absolutely nothing, besides disco dancing, which he seems to actually rank as something more protown than what Looker has done. I still don't have reads on anyone past a couple people, and it's getting pretty frustrating when trying to figure out who to vote for.

[Nicodemus]

There are too many lurkers in this game to scumhunt effectively.

Nacho is not a fan of this statement. This statement is a cop out. There's currently 7 pages of posting with some pretty informative/telling posts tossed in here and there. If people aren't posting, vote for them and ask them questions. Don't complain and say there's no way to scumhunt and then disappear. You're one of the lurkers too, you know.

Just because it's a cop out doesn't make it untrue. When

half of the game

is lurking it's a little hard to form suspicions/draw conclusions about scum teams/get town tells. Right now I only have solid reads on slaxx and Parama, and then a ton of nulls because no one is posting. And right now my vote is on one of those lurkers, the one that I think is most likely to be scum.

@slaxx: I really don't know what to think of Nacho at this point. From what I can remember he has just moved his vote from one player to the next based on lurkiness, but hasn't really contributed any firm stances or cases on anyone. I have a gut town read atm but I need to hear a lot more from him before that can be solidified at all.

[Nicodemus]

Ha, sorry slaxx. Posting from West Lafayette to say

V/LA until late Sunday.

[Nicodemus]

OK, just did a reread, updated reads below:

Starbuck

didn't look great my first time through the thread, but on reread looks much better. I'm going to go ahead and call town v town on her and Parama. She's playing fairly openly and I think she's town, just confused by Parama's playstyle.

kunk

doesn't look good on a reread. He's given a few opinions, but overall has basically just defended himself and voted lurkers. I'm still not really seeing the paranoia of his first comment that makes him scum, but I always have a hard time picking up on the gut-scummy stuff, so. I think I'm going to put that post down to playstyle, and I can't fault someone for disagreeing on theory. Doing so is a great way to look like you're contributing when you're not, however, so kunk is still scummy.

Nacho

has dropped off significantly since I've begun to read his play better. His posting still seems like it would be a great way for scum to get by without much effort, but I like what he's been saying so far. Leaning town.

Stephoscope

has actually dropped on my scumdar after my reread. I don't know what it is, but I'm getting a gut town read on him. I feel like scum would, I don't know, try to disguise their uselessness a bit more.

Looker

is a complete null. Has done absolutely nothing, needs to step it up.

slaxx

is playing a very townie game, his posting is as clear, concise, and sincere as always.

Navy

is still null, even though he's contributed more than Looker and Nikanor combined. I just haven't gotten a good read on him yet, hopefully that can be rectified soon.

CMAR

is solidifying in my scum reads, due to his continued absence in this thread. His predecessor was lurky, only placed a RV when slaxx called him out on it, and then disappeared. CMAR has been no better. I would support a CMAR wagon if we could get it going.

Nikanor

is also null for me. Minimal input, minimal involvement. I need more from him.

ani

is still scum. Read him in ISO. 75% of his posts have to do with the RQS, which he took way too seriously, like he was trying to get it to pass for scumhunting. The rest contain minimal effort beyond buddying with Starbuck and Navy. His lurking now that he's become the popular wagon is pretty telling.

Parama

is looking quite town in this game, which is actually a first for me in games with him. I guess I'm getting used to his playstyle now, but yeah, he looks good to me.

Confirm vote: ani

Other lynches I would agree to: CMAR, kunk, Looker.

[Nicodemus]

Okay I need to read more.
This is Nico overreacting in a similar way that kunk did. Can't believe I missed this.

You're missing the point. Your justification for voting me was that I said my town play was scummy. Yet, Starbuck said the exact same thing. I don't mind random votes when they're truly random, or when the logic behind them is consistent, but when you pick and choose your data to arrive at your desired conclusion it makes me wonder.

[Nicodemus]

bah, sorry I've been neglecting this game so much. I'll try to get a decent post up sometime tonight, and I'll definitely post by tomorrow.

[Nicodemus]

Prod received.

I am not giving this game the attention I need to, and I'm going to fix this tonight. expect a mega post soon-ish.

[Nicodemus]

Prod received.

I am not giving this game the attention I need to, and I'm going to fix this tonight. expect a mega post soon-ish.

Well I suck.

If I don't get something up in the next 24 hours, replace me please.

[Nicodemus]

Prod received.

I am not giving this game the attention I need to, and I'm going to fix this tonight. expect a mega post soon-ish.

Well I suck.

If I don't get something up in the next 24 hours, replace me please.

working on this now

[Nicodemus]

I think I'm just going to replace Nicodemus now.

Yeah, sorry, college has been stupid busy and I know I've made and broken a lot of promises about posting but I'm going to try to stick it out in this game if it's possible.

Nikanor's vote on Starbuck absolutely reeks. Why spend your entire post calling CMAR a scumbag and then vote Starbuck at the end for the early claim? Looks like you're going for the easy target to me.

Vote: Nikanor

[Nicodemus]

Hmmm. Now that I look at it, it looks fairly terrible. Why say "lowly VT"? It does seem vaguely manipulative, and claiming that early really doesn't make sense from a pro-town perspective. Her AtE are also bad.

Still, Nikanor's vote was bad because of how he framed it. Yours was good because you made your point and voted. Nik called out CMAR for 9/10s of the post, and then tacked on a vote for Starbuck at the end. The revote makes even less sense from Nik considering the fact that he was voting Starbuck and then unvoted AFTER Starbuck claimed, but is now voting again because of your reasoning? It looks too fishy to me. The situation feels more like scumNik jumping on the Starbuck wagon after he realized that he could get support from people like you.

[Nicodemus]

Do you think it could be a bus?

I think that this:

I wouldn't be too unhappy with a Starbuck lynch. We need more people to weigh in on stuff, though.
You know what? I think what we really need is a quickly-built reckless bandwagon with next to no reasoning attached.

Unvote. Vote:Starbuck.

ALL ABOARD THE STARBUCK EXPRESS! ANYONE WHO HAMMERS GETS A FREE NICKEL!

and this:

Actually, yeah. I agree with Slaxx here. We can lynch Starbuck the "Townie" now.

Unvote. Vote: Starbuck.

make it unlikely. I know that when I bus I like to either be the one driving the wagon or, if the lynch looks inevitable, I like to make sure I get on the wagon with original reasoning and a gung ho attitude. I want people to be able to recall instantly that I was one of the main reasons why scum was lynched, because it obviously distances me from them and gives me townie cred.

Nik isn't doing that at all with his votes. He's pushing the lynch for bad reasons in the first post, and then jumping on with your reasoning in the second. I'm not sure scum would bus like this, it just doesn't seem like it would be in their best interests to do so.

.......

OK, I just typed all of that up, and then I thought about it some more and I realized that maybe it IS a bus. Maybe Starbuck claimed BECAUSE Nik voted for her, to allow others to vote her and then for her to flip scum, thus "clearing" those that were earliest on the wagon. It makes sense too with the Nik unvoting situation, because Nik probably wasn't expecting Starbuck to claim like that, so he unvoted because he was freaked out. Then, after you expressed your willingness to lynch because of the claim, Nik decided to jump back on.

So, I guess overall I'd say that I don't think it's a bus, but that it is definitely possible. I'd still much rather lynch Nik over Starbuck though, as Nik is scum in either of those situations.

[Nicodemus]

Vote: kunk

[Nicodemus]

Alright, I guess I'm claiming now to help this lynch out if deadline is today. I'm Santa Clara Vanguard, a doctor. I protected Nacho Night 1 as he seemed the towniest through Day 1.

Parama's bribing Starbuck and Slaxx with town cred is horrible, as is Nico's out of nowhere vote.

It's deadline today, I wasn't opposed to your lynch, so I voted. Now however things are different.

Think we could get a Nik lynch before deadline?

Unvote Vote: Nikanor

[Nicodemus]

Just checking in to say that I am here and waiting for Steph to post.

[Nicodemus]

I am Pacific Crest, vanilla town. If anyone needs any other info, let me know.

I obviously pass the baton to CMAR.

*facepalm*

You were only supposed to claim your flavor, not your role. And CMAR has already claimed. Pick someone else.

[Nicodemus]

Screw this, I'm vanilla townie as well. I am the

Colts

. I originally had a Western theme, but I ran out of music to play and decided to diversify my music. I have no special abilities and when all other factions have left the game (or nothing can prevent it from happening, which idk how that can happen from a town perspective).

He has already claimed Steph. He won't change his story. We are just popcorn claiming our flavor right now, and CMAR's flavor has already been claimed. Pick someone else, i.e., me, Slaxx or Nacho to go next.

[Nicodemus]

Sorry for the absence, I was moving out of college and getting settled in back home.

My regiment is the Cavaliers, and apparently our show Frameworks set the DCI score record in 2002.

Slaxx can go next.

[Nicodemus]

It's pretty incredible how low my internet access slips when my laptop is no longer a foot away from the place I sleep.

VT here, Nacho goes next.

[Nicodemus]

This seems about right. I think kunk's doc claim is legit. Does anyone disagree with this?

I do. Wifom aside, why would the mafia choose to leave the doc alive for the night if kunk really is the doc? It would just increase the chances of them trying to kill the person that kunk protected. Kunk is my biggest suspicion now just because he's still alive when it's fairly obvious that he shouldn't be.

[Nicodemus]

Leaving Nicodemus to lynch. I haven't been comfortable with him all game, his attempt to get kunk lynched is scummy, and hes been coasting along with minimal effort. There's also the added bonus of PoE pointing to him as most likely scum, so...

How is stating blatant truths scummy? Why would scum not kill the doctor, other than the fact that the doctor is scum himself? It makes no sense. There is absolutely no reason for the mafia to leave a claimed doctor alive from my point of view.

Unfortunately, you're a strong town read of mine, so I can't really attack you for this logic, but it's still troubling.

As for me, my top two suspects in this game are kunk and CMAR, with Steph a possibility for scum with kunk. Although I was uneasy about Steph's play early on, I think I've been convinced by his weird attacks on CMAR as just too ballsy to be coming from scum. CMAR hasn't made me any more comfortable with his overreactions to Steph's case, he was a major lurker on D1 and just tunneled on Nikanor for all of D2. I still think that the best strategy is no lynch for the investigation that slaxx can get, but otherwise I'm voting kunk today.