Open 204: Friend and Enemies Over

[Light]

ok i've pretty much skipped all of don_johnson's/discos/farside22 post, because they are all big. I also note that the mod is inactive?


responses in blue.

Ze Case on Light:

A) He doesn't participate unless you ask him questions directly or pressure him.

At the start of the game I asked him 2 questions to try and get some sort of opinion out of him. He didn't give any answers, and so I voted him. Then he starts responding...

[color=dark blue]So I'm suppose to say nothing when im pressured by a vote?[/color]

B) When he finally gives an opinion on something, it is extremely wishy-washy...

alright then paltryexcuse, i will get more involved. tbh the other mafia game i've been participating in seems much more interesting, which is why i've diverted a lot of my attention to it rather than split it 50-50.

I do not think Exedrin is scum, however i may be swayed to vote for him if evidence is presented.

Right now my 2 suspects are:
water_foul - this is just my intuition playing in, but i think we need to check him/her out more.
pwnman - lurking

No explanation needed. Just read.

[color=dark blue]?; So your basically thinking that my input is shit?[/color]

C) And it also targets the guy (pwnman) who has said NOTHING all game beyond responding to a prod and answering some RQS question.

This is disturbing because up until this point pwnman had said nothing, so it was a policy/easy lynch on the player with 3 votes at the time. Secondly, I would argue that Light was active lurking. It takes him less than a day to respond, however he still provides zilch.

[color=dark blue]I don't see how this is not a valid reason not to vote pwnman? He was lurking. When you say i'm "actively lurking", you realise that i have told you i did not pay too much attention to this because my other mafia game was much more interesting? Not some scum-thing you've got goign on in your head.[/color]

D) He alludes to giving an analysis in this post, and his defense is only "this is the way I play" and "town would suffer a mislynch".

He's defeatist and appeals to emotion. He then defends himself a couple more times without an analysis still. The pressure dies down on him (a.k.a Disco makes his 'Don ain't a mason remark') And then he pops in two days later to go on V/LA. The V/LA I can't dispute as being legit (and I'm not), but he had two days between his last post and the announcement of his V/LA to say

SOMETHING

.

But not being open is also a shit thing.

My ease of being swayed? i said i could be swayed to vote for exedrin if enough evidence was presented. It wouldn't be "regardless of it's true merits" because im voting based on evidence presented.

So what would you have me do to prove my innocence then? be less ambiguous? Narhh, i play the way i play.

You cannot change my core playstyle, i will always be open. always, regardless of faction.

The defense of 'you don't know me'.

I also stated at page 7-8 that i would start paying more attention.

Did you not conclude that i have yet to fully analyze the pages and posts before it?

The promise of a future analysis.

If you believe me to be the scum, then vote me out. i have absolutely nothing to lose. However the town would have then suffered from a mislynch.

Appeal to emotion.

[color=dark blue]

D) He alludes to giving an analysis in this post, and his defense is only "this is the way I play" and "town would suffer a mislynch". He's defeatist and appeals to emotion.

I don't back down from a fight. Also lol; your right on the appeals to emotion; however i've been doing ti subconciously so lol. Since you are insistent on my analysing shit, give me shit to analyse then. [/color]

Overall: It's anti-town, and scummy to me. There is nothing good to be gleaned from this.

However, Light's V/LA is also why I want to know if we're going to be assuming that the (new?) mod is going to extend the day (or we're going to say s/he is going to due to extenuating circumstances). I want at least an answer before the end of the day, but if Light can't get on in time... my vote is on a guy who can't defend in time which sucks.

[Light]

and yes, i've realised i've failed in colouring my responces.

[DiscoRoboto]

Not going to claim, the L-1 to hear a claim is suspicious imo and I'm sure the more bright minds (coughfarside) can figure the scumteam already.

If someone says 'claim or eat dirt', I'll claim.

[farside22]

List mod note: If the mod does not post today I will be replacing him.

DJ:
So this post http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 29#2133729
Where Water calls out McG (noticable quiet scum) You and Disco as buddying is not something that should be noticed because you think town should be doing this.
Now mind you I will say it's valid since you think this is a theory to go by but what about disco and McG. They don't have this theory. Their buddying (I don't think disco was buddying but to carry on for a bit) isn't something that normally happen unless it's scum buddying up to town.

Based on meta I know I'm changing my vote. Game is ongoing.

unvote:
vote: McG

pure scum here.

[kunkstar7]

Wait, that confused me Farside. You changed to Mcgriddle on meta? Could you elaborate on this a bit better?

[don_johnson]

List mod note: If the mod does not post today I will be replacing him.

DJ:
So this post http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 29#2133729
Where Water calls out McG (noticable quiet scum) You and Disco as buddying is not something that should be noticed because you think town should be doing this.

town should be doing what? i don't think town should be calling out "groups" on day 1. hypothetically, at that point in the game it was still possible from a vanilla townies pov that the mason team was "mcg, disco, dj." by water_foul pointing out the connection he can (if vanilla) be helping scum narrow down who the masons are. pointing out "connections" regardless of how you want to define those connections, is poor form on day 1.

Now mind you I will say it's valid since you think this is a theory to go by but what about disco and McG. They don't have this theory. Their buddying (I don't think disco was buddying but to carry on for a bit) isn't something that normally happen unless it's scum buddying up to town.

again. this is your opinion. masons know 100% that their partners are aligned town. i am not implying that the "buddying" would be intentional. i think this is the main source of our argument is that i am using "buddying" in a much broader sense than i think you are accustomed to. masons will employ distancing tactics as much as scum, but once you have a scum flip, you often look to that players interactions with others to find his partners. often you can look at "wealer" attacks they made, or unexplained or chainsaw defenses. scum can employ the same tactics in order to hunt masons. scum is the more informed minority in this game. i.e. they know more players alignments than masons, so by pointing out day 1 connections without a flip to refer to, vanillas may inadvertently out the mason team and make scums job easier. i found water_fouls post to be poor form and i responded.

Based on meta I know I'm changing my vote. Game is ongoing.

unvote:
vote: McG

mkay. what is your opinion of Light?

pure scum here.

[don_johnson]

ebwop:

sorry: "wealer" should be "weaker".

and a question for farside got cut off:

farside, what is your opinion of Light?

[Mindgamer]

Hmm, hmm. Very interesting situation. I will do a good read before I make my final decision (assuming the deadline is still March 5th, which sucks).

In the mean time, I don't want anyone to hammer DiscoRoboto.

Unvote

[farside22]

Wait, that confused me Farside. You changed to Mcgriddle on meta? Could you elaborate on this a bit better?

McGriddle town is more vocal. He says a lot of things about what's going on in the game and so far he is player very low on the radar saying little to nothing.

town should be doing what? i don't think town should be calling out "groups" on day 1. hypothetically, at that point in the game it was still possible from a vanilla townies pov that the mason team was "mcg, disco, dj." by water_foul pointing out the connection he can (if vanilla) be helping scum narrow down who the masons are. pointing out "connections" regardless of how you want to define those connections, is poor form on day 1.

Your not explain why town should not be doing this. Unless you are mason which I seriously doubt you are, I have already pointed out that there is no reason that early in the day for mason's to buddy and typically do not buddy.
I think your trying to make it sound like buddying is always typically with mason's which has no fact in it.

[farside22]

farside, what is your opinion of Light?

Weren't you supposed to get me your views on a few players and failed to do so thus far?

[Excedrin]

Light, sorry I didn't realize you were V/LA earlier.

... give me shit to analyse then.

What do you think about the farside22 / don_johnson / DiscoRoboto situation?

[farside22]

@DJ What is your opinion of McG, Light, Excendrin and Mindgamer?

farsides view on light:

He doesn't have much in views. The one view he gave was based on intuition and lurking
This is a lie

I also stated at page 7-8 that i would start paying more attention. Did you not conclude that i have yet to fully analyze the pages and posts before it?

He never said that at all.
I asked him a question that he has yet to answer. Basically he gives nothing to this game, nothing to his views and the only 2 players he found scum was because of lurking (most likely a player who flaked) and gut.
Leaning probable scum at this point.

[don_johnson]

Your not explain why town should not be doing this. Unless you are mason which I seriously doubt you are, I have already pointed out that there is no reason that early in the day for mason's to buddy and typically do not buddy.

I think your trying to make it sound like buddying is always typically with mason's which has no fact in it

.

you are missing the point entirely. bolded is not even close to what i have been saying. i am done here. i will get to my iso's asap. i haven't had anytime as you keep responding with the same fucking thing over and over no matter how many different ways i try to explain it to you. we have differing theory's on how vanilla townies should play in this set-up. case closed.

vote: deadline extension not having the mod around has hurt our ability to organize. i had no idea the deadline was so close.

[farside22]

Your missing my point to DJ. Unless Disco or McG had the same theory as you about buddying your comment about not pointing it out early day 1 is invalid.

[Mindgamer]

All right, the whole day has been wasted on Farside22 vs Don_Johnson. No further information, no further content, Don_Johnson only, Final Destination.

Don_Johnson
i had no idea the deadline was so close.

Mindgamer
First, I want to request a deadline extension even though the mod is apparently not here. The deadline is reached in two days and this game has the no majority = no lynch rule. That's not fair if there is no moderator to prod players (Pwnman, McGriddle).

Apparently you don't care about my posts, since you haven't read them. You know who doesn't care about posts? Scum.

Vote: Don_Johnson

My reread has basically given me an even stronger dislike of Don_Johnson. Whereas Farside22 has been actively scumhunting and giving opinions outside of the Don_Johnson discussion, Don_Johnson has only talked about his own. Boo-yah.

PaltryExcuse
You have until midnight Mar. 5th (deadline) to make your voice heard and elicit responses.

You're not worried about the deadline at all?

Light
ok i've pretty much skipped all of don_johnson's/discos/farside22 post, because they are all big.

Farside22 vs Don_Johnson is the core of this game. How can a townie be NOT interested in what they have to say? Owait, a scum isn't interested because he already has all the information.


Don_Johnson/PaltryExcuse/Light scum. Kthxbai.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Light: Thing to analyze: The game.
Thing to have an opinion on: The argument you skipped.
Thing to do: Find scum.

@Disco: I think I've made it clear of who I'd rather lynch. However, at this point, we need a lynch today if we don't get a deadline extension. I was, and still am, that you needed to claim in order to defend yourself. I suggested that we wait until you're at L-1 and other quieter people had weighed in. They have. It was much more deadline motivated than anything else.

[PaltryExcuse]

PaltryExcuse
You have until midnight Mar. 5th (deadline) to make your voice heard and elicit responses.

You're not worried about the deadline at all?

Where'd you get that impression?

[farside22]

Basically I disagree with DJ because first this was done and stated at the start of the day. Second this line of thing gives scum freedom to go ahead and buddy whoever they want and say they did it to "help protect the mason"
and finally no one in the history of MS mason wise buddies early day one.

Early

I put that in bold because 4 pages or 6 pages in if mason are buddying up then their is something seriously wrong.

I also have issue with DJ saying I'm tunneling on him when that is all he's been doing with Disco most of the day. That comment smacks of hypocrisy.

My vote stands on McG. If you want links to him as town I can post them so you can see what I mean for meta there.
I say DJ, McG and either Excedrin/Light
Those would be my top 4 scum suspects.

[McGriddle]

I'm bored.

Unvote, Vote: Light

[farside22]

I'm bored.

Unvote, Vote: Light

Hi scum ^^^^

[Chaco]

I'm here now! Sorry, for

abandoning you

leaving on such short notice. I got really busy and was only able to announce V/LAs. I looked fr one of my friends to take over for a bit, but never got around to it. This problem will not arise again anytime soon. So, I'll have votecounts and such within the hour.

[/b]

[Chaco]

The Fourth Vote Count "<><"

hewitt (1)

: pwnman,

PaltryExcuse (1):

don_johnson (0):

farside22

kunkstar7 (0):

Mindgamer (0):

DiscoRoboto (1):

Excedrin

farside22 (0):

pwnman (3):

kunkstar7, water_foul, Mindgamer

Excedrin (3):

McGriddle, DiscoRoboto, don_johnson

Light (1):

PaltryExcuse

McGriddle (1):

Hewitt

water_foul (0):

Not Voting (1)

: DiscoRoboto, Light,

A deadline has been set for the 5th of March at 11:59:59pm.

The Fifth "Official" Vote Count

Hewitt (1)

: pwnman

DiscoRoboto (5):

Excedrin, hewitt, don_johnson, kunkstar7, PaltryExcuse

Light (1):

McGriddle

don_johnson (2):

DiscoRoboto, Mindgamer

McGriddle (1):

farside22

Not Voting (2):

Light, water_foul

Once again: SORRY! I apologize deeply. Deadline extended for two more days: March the 7th at Midnight.

[don_johnson]

I also have issue with DJ saying I'm tunneling on him when that is all he's been doing with Disco most of the day. That comment smacks of hypocrisy.

i admitted that i was tunneling on you. thats not hypocrisy. hypocrisy would be if i was using it as an attack on you and denying that i was exhibiting the same behavior.

Your missing my point to DJ. Unless Disco or McG had the same theory as you about buddying your comment about not pointing it out early day 1 is invalid.

not at all. i have no idea how you can reach that conclusion, but whatever, this conversation is pointless. i came into this game with a theory. disco was under scrutiny, the attacks on him were poor, and he was doing nothing to diffuse the situation. i defended him. in response, he revealed(though he now denies it) role information and has so far failed to explain himself in any way shape or form.

McG's vote is stupid so close to dealine.

mindgamer is just being silly. i have repeatedly stated that i have been absorbed in my conversation with farside and disco, so of course i have not been paying as much attention to other posts, sorry i didn't realize deadline was so close.

I say DJ, McG and either Excedrin/Light

its funny, but you seem to have a "group" here. would i be correct in assuming that you came up with this group by looking at the interactions of the above mentioned players? if so, does it not occur to you that the scum team would hunt the masons in a similar manner? the scum are looking for connections just as much as you(if you are town). your entire disagreement with me seems to be based on the fact that you think the masons are smarter than the scum team. its kind of a bad assumption to make. it is not an assumption that i made at the start of this game. it occurred to me that the scum team would hunt for the mason team in a much similar manner as town hunts scum. therefore i used my theory to defenbd a player i thought was town and who was being pushed around by players with weak attacks. but whatever. for some reason you don't want to believe me, even though you are allegedly hunting scum in the same manner i proposed that scum might hunt the masons. oh well.

With mason's in this game the only list I plan on making is a list of those I think may be scum.

^^ you posted this on page 5. my point is that by a player making "scum" lists, or pointing out connections between players, one has the potential to out the masons. i.e. the masons make up an informed minority, much like the scum team, so they can(in effect) be hunted the same way. i think "scumlists" and "connections" are best left til after day 1 in friends and enemies due to the specific nature of the set up. the only players who can effectively look for a scum "group" are the masons themselves because they know who the mason "group" is. the vanillas should avoid such scumhunting tactics and if the masons want to stay hidden then they should also avoid making those "lists" public as it then alerts scum that they might be masons. get it?

POSTING SCUM LISTS ON DAY 1 HELPS THE SCUM TEAM NARROW DOWN GROUPINGS OF PLAYERS. THIS HELPS THEM DETERMINE WHO THE MASONS ARE. PLEASE STOP DOING IT.

MINDGAMER: DO YOU JUST REALIZE THAT YOU MOVED YOUR VOTE FROM DISCOROBOTO TO ME? WHAT HAS CHANGED YOUR MIND ABOUT HIM? BECAUSE I DIDN"T RECOGNIZE THE DEADLINE WAS SO CLOSE THAT MAKES ME SCUM? WHY WERE YOU VOTING DISCO IN THE FIRST PLACE?

[don_johnson]

ebwop: "tunneling on disco", not farside.

[don_johnson]

we really shouldn't be coasting into deadline like this.

farside: you voted McG instead of me which tells me that you are more sure that he is scum than i. in that regard, i ask you to look at this situation with me as vanilla town and reevaluate for the sake of getting this right. your stubborness reads more town than scum to me. i would be willing to join the McG wagon, the last vote of his is a bit out there, but i would like your opinion of mingamer's recent switch.

your alluding to pages 4-6 and his recent attack had me doing a bit of a reread of those pages and an iso of mindgamer. to me, it looks as though mindgamer was riding the disco wagon with very little reasoning. i.e. it looks as though he was just trying to get a claim with no intention of lynching, whereas myself and i think some of the others on the wagon were prepared to lynch with a vanilla claim. this seems like a scum motivated action to me.

he even stated i was his preferred lynch target while hopping the disco wagon. not sure what to make of it, but i would like your take on it.

unfortunately, with so little time left for deadline i am most likely not going to get to much more rereading and iso. i work both tonight and tomorrow night and have other obligations pending on this site. if you are town, you know as well as i that we need to organize something.

my lynch pool: disco, mindgamer, McG, Light

please realize this is not a "scum" grouping as i currently don't see connections between these players, they are simply the four most independently scummy individuals imo. Light still reads like a policy lynch and so is last on my list.