Open 204: Friend and Enemies Over

[farside22]

vote: kunkstar7

saving myself from your play style.

[farside22]

farside22, what's your opinion on day vs night start for this setup?

I personally hate as a player night start games. Anyone who signs up looking forward to playing the game dies N0 and all that excitement to play is shut down without a word.

[farside22]

@farside22: Does your modding help you get a better read on people when you play a game?

If that player is in a game I modded it does help but it's just like being a player in a game you start to establish meta on certain types of players. Some are easier to read then others of course.

@Everyone: what is the best way to get out of RVS stage?

my answer: Usually I find something to fight with someone about even something minor.
Here's an example: Why did Excedrin vote for McGriddle for not voting when he didn't post in the game at that point?

[farside22]

farside22 wrote:
@Everyone: what is the best way to get out of RVS stage?

my answer: Usually I find something to fight with someone about even something minor.
Here's an example: Why did Excedrin vote for McGriddle for not voting when he didn't post in the game at that point?

Best way is an early wagon.
Does a random vote have to be logical? What do you think about McGriddle's reaction?

There isn't always logic but saying someone didn't vote when they didn't post and then he doesn't vote when he comes on I have to wonder about it.
I hate people that has my opinion and not post one of there own it looks like wanting to see a case so you can put forth a vote.

unvote:
vote: Excedrin

[farside22]

PaltryExcuse: I really don't understand the point you are trying to make against Disco.

[farside22]

I didn't advise to stay in RVS.

It's obvious that you are getting scumtells just because you disregard the context. How do you get out of RVS if there's nothing to talk about?

Guess this is the way out right now though.

You said you liked the RVS stage. Plus I haven't seen you ask questions to anyone at this stage to try and get out of it.
Why would you say you do'nt think mindgamer is anti-town at all? No one suggested he was.

[farside22]

Not everything is going to pop up and be easy for you.
I missed the question to you. I don't think it's scum tell to like RVS but I try to get out of it or the game stays stagnat and boring.
Right now I'm not getting scum vibes from your post and your not hiding from your answers which is a plus point in your favor to me.

[farside22]

psst: you should not lie about your role unless you are scum and wish to out the cop or doc it's bad for the town and far worse then losing a VT.

[farside22]

Well that I can agree on, I think you could've concluded that from my post.

Do you know why mcgriddle asked you that question? It makes no sense to ask a question like that in this game.

[farside22]

excedrin: Your asking my opinion of mcgriddle while not giving one of your own. I find players asking others view points are scum motivated as why would anyone town ask another player their view point on a player they havent' said boo about.

[farside22]

McGriddle why are you asking Disco this question right now? Are you trying to role fish and looking for the PR in this game?

[farside22]

McGriddle why are you asking Disco this question right now? Are you trying to role fish and looking for the PR in this game?

Why would I want to do that?

unvote:
vote: mcgriddle

You want to actually anwser my question instead of asking a question without answering this time?

[farside22]

@Water_foul: What would you do if your number 1 suspect who was at L-1 suddenly claimed a PR?

Mcgriddle this is the second time you asked about a PR. What information are you hoping to gather that isn't some how scum related with this role fishing?

[farside22]

it's obvious my answer was no.

How does no fit this question?

McGriddle why are you asking Disco this question right now?

[farside22]

Really McGriddle then what am I missing here if I didn't read the thread.

He's role fishing but not asking for claims

[farside22]

excedrin: Your asking my opinion of mcgriddle while not giving one of your own. I find players asking others view points are scum motivated as why would anyone town ask another player their view point on a player they havent' said boo about.

It's odd that you're putting so much emphasis on a random/joke vote. Also, I already said that McGriddle was obvscum, it would be lucky if my random vote landed on scum tho.

Serious note, my thought about McGriddle's response was that it's slightly defensive when there's no reason to be. He didn't reply with anything to advance the game.

Do you think that all opinions should be shared at all times? Would a constantly updated scum/town list with reasons be a good idea?

You said obv scum during a random joke/ vote that you are now saying was a serious comment apparent? Your wording on the first paragraph is confusing
With mason's in this game the only list I plan on making is a list of those I think may be scum.

[farside22]

farside22, it was a comment with the same weight as the vote. Looks like selective reading on your part.

Then please explain better what you are saying here:

It's odd that you're putting so much emphasis on a random/joke vote. Also, I already said that McGriddle was obvscum, it would be lucky if my random vote landed on scum tho.

You asked my view of McGriddle then you say here after I said I don't like giving people reads of others without seeing their view first. Your saying your obvscum was your comment but it wasn't serious.
Which is it. Is it that you think mcgriddle is obvscum or you don't have a read on him?

[farside22]

Does a random vote have to be logical? What do you think about McGriddle's reaction?

Okay so you asked me about his reaction but didn't say what you thought about it in your post

I missed your response here:

Serious note, my thought about McGriddle's response was that it's slightly defensive when there's no reason to be. He didn't reply with anything to advance the game.

My appologies for missing this and grilling you for it later.

As for my view about this post:

I think the questions are great, they spark discussion, the only downside is that they can spark a wrong answer and lead to a mislynch.

Odd. Lots of assumption but into this post. Why assume wrong answers and mislynch with the questions.
Plus when asking about his non RVS vote he claims to not like RVS voting but doesn't propose anything to move forward in the game.
Finally we have him asking misleading questions about how people will react with a PR claim.
I see no point in these questions.

[farside22]

disagreeing with the attacks on disco. the word "and" is hardly a mechanic of separation.

He did cap the and is odd as it looks like a separation between saying town to himself.

[farside22]

Lol@you people seeing that as a scumtell.

Seriously, what the fuck? Do you really think a scum would say 'HEY GUYS IM SEPERATED FROM THE TOWN YO' n stuff? Nah, not even subtle.
The point is that I don't see why scum would do this rather then town. Because a townie is part of the town? Stop joking with me, lol.

Can I just asked why you typed it that way?

[farside22]

It looks idiotic, doesn't it?

Fits the theme.

Like I said just odd. I don't see it as a scumtell as it's obvious the and is cap'ed and who (scum wise) is that dumb.
I never think scum dumb it's my number one rule ......well except complete newbs and I don't believe you are a newb.

[farside22]

Actaually I noticed the join date for disco.

*notes dumb move for later date.*

[farside22]

@Light: So basically 'no comment' on anything? What would you do to move us out of random voting, questioning, and commenting?

i did not say "no comment on anything". Aren't we moving out of RVS now? it seems so.

So what is your view on people or do you feel anyone is scummy for any reason at this point?

[farside22]

hm. i'm with adam.

unvote, vote: excedrin

he's giving me a headache.

You think I'm going to let you get away with this crap?

unvote:
vote: Don_Johnson

[farside22]

Adam is He-man, ofcourse.

In either way, yeah I do ridicule. I don't in later stages, but if you want me gone before that, go ahead and try to convince everyone.
Posting fluff? Oh sorry, I'll just stop defending myself if you think it's fluff.

Please get off your high horse it's really annoying.

[farside22]

Aye aye sir.

So, who do people suggest we investigate right now?

I think DJ needs to start sharing input instead of gliding by while others argue.
I have to look at who else but he caught my attention.
I don't know if I would say mcg was buddying if he was then DJ was certainly doing his buddy with you when he posted that vote.

[farside22]

DJ: I understand vibes and all but your post struck me as just following and laying low under cover to vote.
I would like more of an explaination in your votes. Last game we were in you played town poorly but that doesn't mean you didn't have you high points early in that game that I'm not seeing here.

[farside22]

I'm going to reread this game. I feel like I'm missing someone or something.

[farside22]

do you

want

to be lynched?

Why would you say this?

[farside22]

not entirely, no. i feel like his post has helped put me into a precarious and awkward position. i don't really know how to handle it. his intentions are extremely cloudy. if he is town, all he has done is help scum with his posting. i don't know how to further extrapolate without revealing info that could damage town. i feel as though my most logical resource is to push his lynch but i cannot entirely explain myself without saying what i feel may be too much. as i said, the most important job for town is to keep the masons hidden as long as possible. his play is potentially outing one of the masons(if not more), unprovoked, on day 1. its a horrible play regardless of alignment.

I confirm my

vote on DJ

!

There is scum here people jsut read what was said!

[farside22]

^^ your lack of explanation is astounding. didn't you criticize an earlier vote i made in a similar fashion? how is it scummy to say "his actions are only helping scum"? how do you think his actions helped town? he is playing around with town's only advantage. we have no doc, no cop, no jailkeep, no vig. we have masons and masons alone. how does outing one or more masons on day 1 completely unprovoked help town in any way, shape or form?

I read what he said and I find it astounding your voting on him. I think what he did was a trap and it caught you. your vote on him where there is no counter claim or comment against it makes me believe you are jumpy scum that just took the bait.

[farside22]

Did you even read disco's post DJ?
Also I smell OMGUS vote right above that is a big scum tell?

He was vague in his post about the claim and no I don't say he's claiming mason but he's saying you were not and you stuttered to a completely halt at that point.
Now your voting for me after his vote. That is just desperate scum move.

[farside22]

well I saw it as panic with both your votes DJ. Compound that with your vague comments today. IGMYOU right now.
If Disco is lying the mason's are the only one to know that. There is 3 mason's to ensure that if he wants to leave that crumb and we reached a point that the mason's want to verify or deny that claim it should be for later.
I think he baited a trap to caught a reaction from DJ.
Now is it possible that Disco is trying to out the mason's with that gambit? That is the biggest question I will ask myself today.

[farside22]

I will be voting DiscoRoboto after a votecount,

As in, you will vote me if it won't hammer?

Yes only because I would like the day to run it's course, at this point I am pretty sure you are scum but instead of hammering you and cutting the day short I still think there is much to gain from a longer day.

seeing this I'm curious to know if WF would put Disco at l-1.

[farside22]

I would like to point out how

Hewitt

is blatantly refusing to

read what I actually mean

and is now

painting me black without providing any answer to my request

. The attempt to paint

me black

is sophomoric.

Oh, just changed it up a little.
Besides, explaining myself would be bad for Town at this point, I think anyone with half a brain would've realised that by now.

Still waiting for someone to explain how my action was a scumtell.

I'm not seeing why explaining your self is bad for the town.

[farside22]

The unoffical vote count:
hewitt (2): pwnman, DiscoRoboto
PaltryExcuse (0):
don_johnson (1): farside22
kunkstar7 (0):
Mindgamer (0):
DiscoRoboto (4): Excedrin, don_johnson, Hewitt, Mindgamer
farside22 (0):
pwnman (1): McGriddle
Excedrin (0):
Light (2): PaltryExcuse, kunkstar7
McGriddle (0):
water_foul (0):

Not Voting (2): Light, water_foul

I still think disco did what he did for reaction. I don't think scum = dumb and mason's if he's not counter claiming would be dumb too. I think players are smarter and I still think Dj's response and OMGUS vote is more scummy.

[farside22]

Even then, any role could pull that off while keeping logic intact.

So Farside, are you thinking DJ is the play today?

I'm still in need to reread a few things but Dj's reaction to your comment and my comment is not only OMGUS it's reasonless. I find it the most scummy thing in the game right now.
I am playing catch up in one more game but I promise a big post later today.

[farside22]

Long post in coming:

Disco post 18: looking back at Dj's vote and mindgamers comment about buddying do you think any differently then when you voted here?
McG post 22: Why did you need to appologize here?
Light post 23: i actually wanted the username "L" but i thought it would be too short. My username has in no way, any affiliation with my role what so ever, just to get that clear.
Does this mean your mafia?
DJ post 30: Advantage for who?
McG post 31: Why do you think this?
Light post 40: I don't care for players that use others answers as one of there own.
Disco post 43: Kunk explained a criteria on what is considered an attack I'm not sure why you are saying this comment here.
Exedrin post 50: answers my question with a question. IE he didn't answer which I find a scum tell
Disco: Will you be insulting toward everyone who disagrees with you?
Paltry post 53: why are you voting for Disco here?
Mcg post 56: I call this sliding under the radar response. Doesn't like RVS but not trying to find a way out of it.
Paltry post 64: How is that discrediting mindgamer? I don't see it in fact he says he doesn't think mind is anti-town. soo???
McG post 69 and hello mr 180 degree turn from post 53
McG post 90: yup I'm calling him scum right now.
The interaction between mcg asking disco about claiming mason and disco's little dance with DJ leaves me all sorts of questions now.
Light post 107: Why are you not voting anyone if this is what your used to?

Excedrin can you please answer my orginal question about why you voted for mcg for not voting when he never said anything.
Light post 128: If you have played here before and believe this why did you sign up for more games here?
Paltry post 141: I notice a lot of question from this guy but very little comments about what is going on.
waterfowls vote on pwnman when there is so much going on doesn't strike me well.
Excedrin post 160: I don't see Disco as actively lurkering. I find it odd you say he's not playing the game but I can point to one player that is AWOL that is clearly not playing this game.
paltry post 182 is better so this will be IGMYOU from earlier posting
DJ post 183: i don't like the severity of excedrins attacks over what seem like minor issues. and yes, adam is he-man.
someone is so going to look hypocritcal here shortly.
Light post 189: Are you a faunt of useless information.
McG post 190: Lets go lurker lynching (hazzuh scum)
excedrin post 193: I note that you did not mention disco's RVS comments as your earlier issue with him. Why not?
McG 195: How is it that someone who isn't posting here didn't just flake? Do you note is most games after a player doesn't show up the mod just replaces them so what good is your vote doing?
Light post 199: See above about flaking and mod choices
Light post 202: Why should you be swayed by anyone? Should you be reading and posint your own points about players?
pwnman post 206: Now that your here you need to weigh in on this game.
hewitt post 210: I agree with you about light there.
Light post 215: What opinon would you say is the best one? Why?
DJ post 217: Here is why I see Disco calling DJ out:

"buddying" is also ridiculous. i have already laid out my stance on the strategy behind this set up. accusing me of buddying after i clearly pointed out that its a viable strategy in this set up tells me that you are not fully reading my posts.

Post 225:

i'm not exactly sure what's going on here. DR is acting like a jack ass. if he wants to be lynched, then i'll vote for him. tbh, i am considering replacing out of this game. i don't know what else to do here. DR seems to have some insight as to my role. he needs to explain himself at this point, but i am not sure if he should as revealing role information unprovoked on day 1 only helps scum. if he's not a mason, i am fine with lynching him. if he is a mason, then 218 is quite possibly the worst post i have ever seen on this site. in fact:

Hi mr.scum I got caught with my hands on a gun and panic'ed

Prior DJ posted this in case you missed it:

the name of the game is "friends and enemies". pointing out connections on day 1 is poor form. i.e. i was asked ealier about my strategy given the open set-up of a game and answered that it alters my strategy. most important thing for town to do is keep the mason's hidden as long as possible. with a three mason team we need to realize that there are two informed minority's and not just one. further, the accusations of "buddying" are not all that applicable in this set-up either. as the masons need to try and hide their identities and the identities of their partners, so to do vanilla's need to "act" like they are masons in order to draw nks away from the real mason team thereby increasing the chances of a town win.

I see scum as McG, DJ and Light right now. Those would be my top 3.
DJ is for his reaction and see above on what DJ stated that prompted disco's response
McG is coasting through this game offering next to nothing but serious fluff
Light is using that newb card hard. He's not trying in the least to want to play and complains about the game here which if he played here before why sign up to another game?
Excedrins on this list too mostly because of vibe and his case on disco that changed a bit later to more extensive. Something about the guy rubs me wrong.

[farside22]

1: It was just a RV. I didn't think while posting it, heh.
2: Only if they're stupid.

The interaction between mcg asking disco about claiming mason and disco's little dance with DJ leaves me all sorts of questions now.

Shoot.

More wondering or if it's scum trying to be subtle to another scum member to fake claim mason.
Just something I'm going to wonder in the back of my head for a bit.

[farside22]

Did you read what DJ stated about buddying up?
Now put in the comment that disco said about DJ and DJ's reaction is to start critisizing Disco (this is after defending the guy) and call him scummy for what exactly? Did he say in his initial post that didn't contradict all his defense from before.

[farside22]

Frankly to continue a bit. DJ was fine and dandy with the game and is talking about replacing out now. I find DJ is scum that just got served a dose from his own comments about buddying to Disco's comment that I can't believe people are not voting for DJ at this point.

[farside22]

Dj: see post 299 and 300 and get back to me with a response nano.

[farside22]

Flipping out and taking about replacing out for someone who you say did something idotic is scummy.
Second did you read your own comment about buddying up. mind saying you were buddying up and disco stating you were not mason after that?
Seriously I can't be the only one who caught on to what disco was implying with your buddying to him.

[farside22]

Did you read your own comment about buddying up?
mindgamer stated you were buddying up and disco stating you were not mason after that.
Do you get now what he was implying and doing with that statement?

[farside22]

how so? townies don't get frustrated?

townies get frustrated but from going to hey all is cool and right to stating you want to replace after Disco's comment. That's one comment. That doesn't look like town frustration at all comment. I've dealt with the like's of empking thru many an argument now that's frustration.

[farside22]

how so? townies don't get frustrated?

townies get frustrated but from going to hey all is cool and right to stating you want to replace after Disco's comment. That's one comment. That doesn't look like town frustration at all comment. I've dealt with the like's of empking thru many an argument now that's frustration.

So frustration isn't scummy. OK. Note also that everyone has their own limits.

What part of his post seemed like panic?

I had almost the same reaction that don_johnson had (I wasn't as frustrated), I don't think his reaction is scummy at all and his frustration seems genuine.

Did you not even read what I wrote? You quoted it. I said going from cool to I wanted to replace based on one person is scummy.
Are you saying DJ's reaction looks normal?

i'm not exactly sure what's going on here. DR is acting like a jack ass. if he wants to be lynched, then i'll vote for him. tbh, i am considering replacing out of this game. i don't know what else to do here. DR seems to have some insight as to my role. he needs to explain himself at this point, but i am not sure if he should as revealing role information unprovoked on day 1 only helps scum. if he's not a mason, i am fine with lynching him. if he is a mason, then 218 is quite possibly the worst post i have ever seen on this site. in fact:

He went from defending to basically freaking out in my view.

[farside22]

Dj: Are you seriously going to say this is the line that drove you to the edge?

Since when is what I did a scum tell?

[farside22]

farside: what are you talking about? what "edge"? and why are you cherry picking that particular quote?

how so? townies don't get frustrated?

He went from defending to basically freaking out in my view.

[farside22]

mod search:

I sent a PM to the mod of this game. I will give him 48 hours to respond. I note he hasn't been to this game since Thrusday.
If he doesn't pick up the prod in 48 hours I will assign the next mod in the Open Queue to mod this game.

[farside22]

Oh and just to clarify to DJ because the quotes don't make sense. You did a facepalm asked Disco if he wanted to be lynched. That was his response and you flipped out to the point of scummy to me. It is a mini tatrum of being caught and proceeding it with an OMGUS vote.

[farside22]

calling excedrin scum with dj now. ^
I explained it just fine. I even showed Dj's post and what Disco said. That doesn't not equal fustrated town at all.
DJ's is saying I almost wanted replacement for what exactly? A play that confused? A player he is calling idiotic?
Someone who said DJ is not mason and all that buddying is not mason with Disco.
There was no reason to go to the extreme that DJ stated on 3 post. To say that everyone has there limit and that limit looks valid really just looks like a defense of scum on scum action for me.

[farside22]

@Farside: Why would Disco have to claim in your logic? That is the major gap I'm looking at for the defense on Disco.

I think he did it for reaction. I don't know what is in one mind. I have seen players say something to see what type of reaction they get for making a comment.
There is that devil side that he (disco) thinks he is close to being lynched and giving his buddies a head's up. But (1) he's not close to lynch (2) why give a heads up when people can see that DJ is buddying up to Disco (this is pre disco's comment) and know he's not mason with disco. So the heads up to scum is a no duh if Disco is scum.
IE: Disco giving a heads up that is unnecessary to scum based on the buddy up comment given by DJ. As scum already knows who is scum in the game.

All that aside I find it interesting that DJ doesn't see an issue with buddying up and defends someone for buddying (will look up who later) I have been in a few mason games and I never saw mason' buddy to begin with so where this logic about budding to hid mason came from doesn't make sense and I would like to know why he believe this helps the town when no other game I have been in I saw mason's buddy before.

[farside22]

DJ: Link to games you found were the mason's buddied.

[farside22]

I explained it just fine. I even showed Dj's post and what Disco said. That doesn't not equal fustrated town at all.

lol, maybe statements like this one are why I don't follow your explanation.

Well if your reading only one line out of a post no wonder you don't follow my explanation.

[farside22]

DJ: Link to games you found were the mason's buddied.

never said i had games where the mason's buddied. my theory is based on how i think the game

should

be played. i don't think mason's would make a concerted effort

to

buddy. the idea is that a vanilla townie defending someone under attack would be mistaken for a mason and then nk'd, thus leaving the mason team untouched. not sure why this is so difficult for you. i didn't like the attacks on disco. i defended him. he claimed to be a mason unnecessarily. now he has backtracked, lied, and has utterly failed to explain any of his actions. do you feel that you are tunneling at this point?

If you never saw it happen why state that we should look at the buddying and question players that buddy to others on day 1?
You know what he didn't claim mason. He said you were not mason.
I saw it as a reaction to your comments about talking about buddying up.
And by the way when I same your vote was OMGUS (the first vote on disco and then your vote on me) The first vote granted he didn't vote your you but your reaction was OMGUS. IE: How dare you try and out me.

[farside22]

i didn't say that. in fact, i said the exact opposite. i said "buddying" was not something which should be considered scummy on day 1. only until after a couple flips should it even be looked at, and then with a grain of salt.

Why should we not consider buddying on day 1? Your theory is only in your head (if it actually exsist) I already and you agreed that mason don't normally buddy up anyways.

DO YOU FEEL THAT YOU ARE TUNNELING? DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERN FOR THE FACT THAT DISCO HAS NOT EXPLAINED HIMSELF AND THAT HE IS SHIFTING BETWEEN THREE SEPARATE AND COMPLETELY UNSUBSTANTIATED EXPLANATIONS AS TO WHY HE MADE HIS STATEMENT?

No I'm asking you questions and I'm not satisfied with your answers.
Do you feel threatened with me asking questions to you?
I'll get back to you on your second question when I'm done asking you questions.
Do you think your tunneling on Disco?
What is your opinion of McG, Light, Excendrin and Mindgamer?

[farside22]

no. we don't agree there.

farside22 wrote:
DJ: Link to games you found were the mason's buddied.

don_johnson wrote:

never said i had games where the mason's buddied. my theory is based on how i think the game should be played. i don't think mason's would make a concerted effort to buddy. the idea is that a vanilla townie defending someone under attack would be mistaken for a mason and then nk'd, thus leaving the mason team untouched. not sure why this is so difficult for you. i didn't like the attacks on disco. i defended him. he claimed to be a mason unnecessarily. now he has backtracked, lied, and has utterly failed to explain any of his actions. do you feel that you are tunneling at this point?

If you never saw it then how do you know it exsist?

Waterfowl had stated he saw three player screaming scum team when you brought on this:

further, the accusations of "buddying" are not all that applicable in this set-up either. as the masons need to try and hide their identities and the identities of their partners, so to do vanilla's need to "act" like they are masons in order to draw nks away from the real mason team thereby increasing the chances of a town win.

Why should we not look at players that are buddying up if I have never seen in a game mason's buddy before?
Please stop dodging this question.

[farside22]

DJ: There has never been as far as any game I have ever been in seen mason's buddy up. Your theory is all based on mason's buddying. Now either link a game you saw mason's buddy or you comment about ignoring buddying looks that much more scummy.

[farside22]

why is it scummy for me to have defended disco from poor attacks? your initial issue with me was not because of my behavior before disco's post, but for my behavior after his post. you seem to have shifted the focus of your case

Because you said you were not going to talk about it. You ignored the question about why 1 line threw you over the edge to talk about asking to be replaced.
From someone saying you are not mason, to you saying facepalm, to him saying I'm not saying Im mason, blah, blah, blah. To you asking him if he want's to be lynched to throwing a tantram that fits a 2 year old that goes off on Disco and calling him names and saying I thought about replacing is assign. I don't for a second read it as frustrated town. I read it as caught scum.

Last time. Mason's don't buddy and checking the last game they are more careful about defending. The mason's if smart are good enough to keep their own views and use their own wit to mislead the scum. When 3 players buddy up too much day 1 I'm not saying oh they could be mason we should buddy to others. I'm looking at is one of those players buddying up scum to a town player trying to hope one is mason and fake claim later if said player flips mason.
And don't tell me that doesn't happen.

[farside22]

Oh I got a PM from the mod. He apparently is having a lot going on and promised an update today.

[farside22]

i did not ignore the question.

a) the question was presented poorly.
b) i never implied or said that "one line" "threw me over the edge". that was your interpretation. for instance, how would you answer this question:

farside, why are you overreacting about my strategy?

Oh lets start mocking me is this how your scum tell is DJ?

I asked you 3 times what part of Disco threw you in such a tissy to want to ask for a replacement. Lets go over this tantrum one more time.

i'm not exactly sure what's going on here. DR is acting like a jack ass. if he wants to be lynched, then i'll vote for him. tbh, i am considering replacing out of this game. i don't know what else to do here. DR seems to have some insight as to my role. he needs to explain himself at this point, but i am not sure if he should as revealing role information unprovoked on day 1 only helps scum. if he's not a mason, i am fine with lynching him. if he is a mason, then 218 is quite possibly the worst post i have ever seen on this site. in fact:

unvote, vote: discoroboto

the only way i can deal with this issue is head on.

You said it's frustrated townie. Now what is frustating and why? 3 comments drove you this quickly over the edge? Seriously?

Frustration to the point of wanting to be replaced is extreme. I don't see a reason to say I wanted to be replaced as a I just am frustrated. This is panic.

How the fuck am I overreaction to your stradegy. I asked you questions and so far you haven't given one good reason that YOUR THEORY not anyone else in this game means that mason's buddy and that town should not try to point out the buddying in the game of others on day 1.
This is something only you believe and as I stated I never see mason's that are trying to hid buddy up or defend one another. They stay apart as long as they can unless a mason is about to be lynched.
There is no reason that anyone should ignore buddying based on a theory that is not fact in past game here at MS.

[farside22]

farside, why are you overreacting about my strategy?

i never said you were overreacting. i used that question as hypothetical to show you some of the finer points of how to communicate with other human beings. go sign up at your local community college for a basic course in communication and you will learn all about it.

Right people can read body lanuage on the computer or see hypothetical with that question. Way out of left field points. Good job scum

noone said to IGNORE buddying. all i said is that the accusation is poorly fettered on day 1.

the name of the game is "friends and enemies". pointing out connections on day 1 is poor form. i.e. i was asked ealier about my strategy given the open set-up of a game and answered that it alters my strategy. most important thing for town to do is keep the mason's hidden as long as possible. with a three mason team we need to realize that there are two informed minority's and not just one. further, the accusations of "buddying" are not all that applicable in this set-up either. as the masons need to try and hide their identities and the identities of their partners, so to do vanilla's need to "act" like they are masons in order to draw nks away from the real mason team thereby increasing the chances of a town win

Seriously? Fine you called it poor form. Why you are wrong right here is the follow:
First off this happened early in the day so their is no reason for a mason to "buddy" So pointing out a connection this early in the day is valid
Again unless a mason is under scrinty they will not "buddy" up to their mason partner or defend them.
It's not my opinion it's what i have seen in other games of Friends and Enemies.
Your theory unless agreed with by others before waterfawl mentioned the buddying is pretty useless after the fact. You don't know if those accused of buddying are scum, town or mason. You just want to shut it down right then and there.
You know what I did last game when I thought someone was mason. I didn't buddy up. I looked for scum. I didn't protect them with fake buddying. I looked at those players I thought were town and those who I thought were scum and I made cases. The one mason was NK. The other mason was outted because of scum making weak cases. Not on "buddying".

[farside22]

List mod note: If the mod does not post today I will be replacing him.

DJ:
So this post http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 29#2133729
Where Water calls out McG (noticable quiet scum) You and Disco as buddying is not something that should be noticed because you think town should be doing this.
Now mind you I will say it's valid since you think this is a theory to go by but what about disco and McG. They don't have this theory. Their buddying (I don't think disco was buddying but to carry on for a bit) isn't something that normally happen unless it's scum buddying up to town.

Based on meta I know I'm changing my vote. Game is ongoing.

unvote:
vote: McG

pure scum here.

[farside22]

Wait, that confused me Farside. You changed to Mcgriddle on meta? Could you elaborate on this a bit better?

McGriddle town is more vocal. He says a lot of things about what's going on in the game and so far he is player very low on the radar saying little to nothing.

town should be doing what? i don't think town should be calling out "groups" on day 1. hypothetically, at that point in the game it was still possible from a vanilla townies pov that the mason team was "mcg, disco, dj." by water_foul pointing out the connection he can (if vanilla) be helping scum narrow down who the masons are. pointing out "connections" regardless of how you want to define those connections, is poor form on day 1.

Your not explain why town should not be doing this. Unless you are mason which I seriously doubt you are, I have already pointed out that there is no reason that early in the day for mason's to buddy and typically do not buddy.
I think your trying to make it sound like buddying is always typically with mason's which has no fact in it.

[farside22]

farside, what is your opinion of Light?

Weren't you supposed to get me your views on a few players and failed to do so thus far?

[farside22]

@DJ What is your opinion of McG, Light, Excendrin and Mindgamer?

farsides view on light:

He doesn't have much in views. The one view he gave was based on intuition and lurking
This is a lie

I also stated at page 7-8 that i would start paying more attention. Did you not conclude that i have yet to fully analyze the pages and posts before it?

He never said that at all.
I asked him a question that he has yet to answer. Basically he gives nothing to this game, nothing to his views and the only 2 players he found scum was because of lurking (most likely a player who flaked) and gut.
Leaning probable scum at this point.

[farside22]

Your missing my point to DJ. Unless Disco or McG had the same theory as you about buddying your comment about not pointing it out early day 1 is invalid.

[farside22]

Basically I disagree with DJ because first this was done and stated at the start of the day. Second this line of thing gives scum freedom to go ahead and buddy whoever they want and say they did it to "help protect the mason"
and finally no one in the history of MS mason wise buddies early day one.

Early

I put that in bold because 4 pages or 6 pages in if mason are buddying up then their is something seriously wrong.

I also have issue with DJ saying I'm tunneling on him when that is all he's been doing with Disco most of the day. That comment smacks of hypocrisy.

My vote stands on McG. If you want links to him as town I can post them so you can see what I mean for meta there.
I say DJ, McG and either Excedrin/Light
Those would be my top 4 scum suspects.

[farside22]

I'm bored.

Unvote, Vote: Light

Hi scum ^^^^

[farside22]

I disagree with your theory DJ.
Enough said.

[farside22]

Also DJ I notice you asked me about another player but never got to the names I asked you to look into. It looks like you got to looking a bit of McG and mind gamer. Is that you reading them in isolation?
Also why do you think Disco is more likely scum and not a VI?

I will get to my thoughts on mindgamer Monday most likely if I can get the read sooner I will.

[farside22]

Sorry I just looked at the deadline.
I think McG is definite scum and I think he knows it and his erratic voting is used so we can't tie him to anyone.
I'm going to say reading Disco I don't think he's scum. I can't explain gut calls, but again I never think scum is dumb. They get tripped up on small things not something like trying to out a mason.

[farside22]

okay kids settle down for a moment. Please don't argue.

I wish I could just seperate people when they are being pig headed.

Farside you agree that there are probably 1-3 scummies in this list of people?

Excedrin, McGriddle, don_johnson, kunkstar7, PaltryExcuse

I had McG, Dj, Excedrin/Light. I don't know about the other 2 and looking at mindgammer in isolation he is really all over the place.

I'm keeping my vote on McG mostly because I noticed as soon as I called him out he popped up after keeping out of it most of the argument.
Let me tell you from experience when I see two people arguing like this has been going on scum tend to take a backseat and place strategic if not bw votes that are what everyone else says.

[farside22]

mod: I request an extension and a prod of all players that have not posted in the last 2 days.

Anyone who does not request and extension at this point is scum.

[farside22]

I really find it hard to believe disco is scum. I know everyone believe lynch = info
I hate the lurkers in this game.
The mod disappearing for as long as he did, did not help. Lets see if others come on first.

[farside22]

Request deadline extension

What's the L on McG?

McG is actively lurking and placing votes that really are either bw or have no rhyme or reason.
Everything thus far is completely against his town meta too.

[farside22]

I think disco is just a VI and scum is going to have a nice easy mislynch here today.
My vote stands on McG.

[farside22]

Did I check the vote count wrong?

Hewitt (1): pwnman
don_johnson (1): McGriddle
DiscoRoboto (2): Excedrin, PaltryExcuse
McGriddle (6): farside22, don_johnson, kunkstar7, Mindgamer, DiscoRoboto, hewitt

I believe it's 7 to lynch

[farside22]

paltry just ninja'ed me

[farside22]

Mindgamer did vote for him so this definately leads to disco not being mason

Unvote. Vote: DiscoRoboto

The last vote count is on page 8. Come on, moderator.

vote: Disco

fos: excedrin

I just find something scummy I know I sensed.

[farside22]

poor form farside. if you iso mindgamer, you may find something which states otherwise. i.e. mg may have been distancing.

here's my issue: one of the main reasons i left the disco wagon yesterday was the vehement defense which disco was recieving. farside, herself, was one of disco's main supporters. during her entire defense(which remained unexplained) she attempted to argue against my theory that vanillas should buddy to/defend others on day 1 to avoid revealing mason partnerships. so, if farside is vanilla, why was she defending Disco so much yesterday? the attacks on disco were well warranted given the easily provable backtracking and misdirection, and yet farside seemed to completely ignore the idea of disco scum yesterday. my thought was that disco/farside were masons. if thats not the case i would like farside to explain why they defended disco so hard yesterday(apparently thinking they were a mason), while debunking the theory that vanillas should engage in buddying/defense of others in order to protect the masons.

what's with the 180?

unvote

Excuse me? Where the heck are you getting this from?

if you iso mindgamer, you may find something which states otherwise. i.e. mg may have been distancing.

Why would mindgamer vote and but his mason partner at L-2?
Second mindgamer a town mason just died. He was voting disco and thought he was scummy. I thought maybe disco could be a VI. Now with Mindgamer dead and McG town nothing about disco makes sense. I had thought most of day 1 was scum pushing a mislynch.
Also you look like your telling all the players who you think the mason's are now. Is that really pro-town after the arguement we had yesterday about hiding mason's?

fos: Dj

for being a hypocrite of your own theory.

[farside22]

*facepalm*

i guess you'd rather it be a pissing match.

Mindgamer did vote for him so this definately leads to disco not being mason

^^ this implies that you were

not

voting him yesterday because you thought he

might

be a mason.

I thought maybe disco could be a VI.

^^ yet here you say you thought maybe he could be a VI(do you mean vanilla?). so what exactly has changed about disco's status which now makes him voteworthy? why can't he still be a VI? your logic is confusing me. why exactly do you think disco is scum?

mindgamer thought he was scummy. Did you miss that part?

Oh look disco and dj both now want to out the mason's. Tell me how town these 2 are.

[farside22]

@farside, hewitt and everyone else voting me (i dont remember them atm): I can out every mason in the game right now with (I think) ~70% accuracy, per mason.
That said, I'm a vanilla townie. im not gonna defend myself like normally, but know that im onto your group.

If you were town you should be looking into a scum group. This just reinforces my vote more.

[farside22]

so what exactly has changed about disco's status which now makes him voteworthy? why can't he still be a VI? your logic is confusing me. why exactly do you think disco is scum?

mindgamer thought he was scummy. He could still be a VI and there are 2 votes on him I still question and if disco flips town I would look more into excedrin and waterfowl if he does flip town.
The really thought disco did what he did for reaction. Looking back and reveluating there could be him trying to out the mason's in the game.
Now he's hinting more about trying to out them which screams scum.

If you thought disco and myself were mason why did you vote disco the start of the day?

[farside22]

anyhow:

vote: disco

this one should have never been let go.

This is a random vote?

Oh this is all WIFOM about the kills. Don't you think the mafia had something to do with that?
Let me explain my theory.
If your right and disco is scum. Then killing me for example and my flip would put disco in the hot seat today. So if disco is scum killing me is bad. They do a shot at mindgamer (for some reason I don't know why) and unfortunetly for scum mindgamer flipped mason who was voting for disco, which now disco can't say anything but that he is VT because god knows scum can't claim scum and if he claimed mason no one would believe him.

Hence why I believe disco is scum that can't go back and now you think because I defended his actions I'm his scum partner? Seriously DJ how long have you been playing at this site that you saw scum defend scum as hard as I defending disco?
Cry WIFOM all you want but that's a serious question.

[farside22]

look at my join date. this is what continues to confuse me: why was it so hard for you to accept my theory yesterday regarding my defense of disco? you don't think scum defends scum, and you don't think mason defends mason. yet here:

Your defense was players should ignore the buddying. Please stop saying it was more then that. Now your claiming scum defend. Please link a game you know where scum defended each other

mg flipping mason is rather irrelevant, yet it is the cornerstone of why you say you believe disco is scum.

Mindgammer stated he thought he was scum.
Really my meta makes you believe I'm scum. Should I bring to this game the last game we were in together and let people evaluate for themselves how I was as scum.

also, scum killed a mason. there was nothing "unfortunate" about it so i don't really understand that comment other than it relates to your case. somehow, mg's flip forced disco to claim VI which leads you to believe he is scum, even though you thought he was VI yesterday when you were defending him. its not adding up.

Killing a player that is confirmed town isn't unforatunate how exactly?
Last time mindgamer believed he was scum. I'm following someone confirmed town mason who had a strong belief.

why would your flip put disco in the hotseat?

I'm town duh.

You know what fuck this shit.

unvote

vote: DJ

for completely misinterputering everything and lying about my meta.
1) dj said buddying not defending.
2) my scum meta :
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13046


More fuck this shit attitude. I'm mason you dumb ass that is why I know mindgamer thought disco was scum. READING IS TECH!

[farside22]

great. way to claim mason with one vote on you.

unvote

other mason is painfully obvious now. so basically, you've been arguing out of your ass this whole time because of what was said in last night's mason quicktopic? don't get mad at me for figuring out you were spouting shit not based on your own beliefs. as i said earlier, both masons and scum are informed minorities. same tactics can often out both. voting me isn't going to help. if you guys thought disco was scum then i'll follow. but don't blame me for you not being able to conceal the fact that you blatantly did a 180 with little to no reasoning. you should have played better..

unvote:
vote: disco

mains suspects are excedrin, waterfowl, disco and dj.

Excuse me for using someone I thought was town as bait for scum with I thought I would be killed last night. I see a push and players reactions so shot me for using that against the scum team.
Finally I have had a bad few games but your agruement was just me changing my mind and you still have given me a link showing a scum team defending each ohter here at MS.

[farside22]

also, i am not "lieing" about your meta. i haven't played with you a huge amount of times, but the times i have played with you you seemed smart. my apologies for thinking you were smart. now i have a concrete link to a game where you played like a complete dumbass(hint: its this one.) and no, i am not going to link to a game where scum defend each other. sometimes scum defend each other and sometimes they distance, and sometimes they downright bus. you were obviously "defending" disco and then made a complete 180 with no in thread evidence. i called you on it, you panicked and claimed mason. brilliant.

Where have you see scum defend each other that hard on day 1.

Right it doesn't exsist. Brillant!

[farside22]

and no. you might not be his partner.

you might just be scum pushing another mislynch. or you might be misguided town.

i have seen plenty of times where scum defended town hard on day 1. i am not linking to a game where this happened and i refuse to argue about it.

IE: I don't have a link.
Please look to DJ after today. He has refused on 2 occasions to link to anything that remotely proves any theory he has.

[farside22]

cba to defend right now. i've breadcrumbed the other mason like over9000 times already i think. im ok with exce or waterforl or dj.

If your town who is breadcrumbing who the mason are I am putting you on my list of players I never want to play with.

[farside22]

I'm not going to even respond to DJ.
As for excedrin's comment I asked for links because DJ says scum defend that hard and he's seen it means there should be a game to link to where he saw scum defend.
As for buddying idea I see scum buddy to town more then town buddy town.

Aslo excedrin how do you find someone to be a VI that wants to out the mason's and show it to people in the game. That helps the scum not the town.

[farside22]

Really why would you do this Disco?

cba to defend right now. i've breadcrumbed the other mason like over9000 times already i think. im ok with exce or waterforl or dj.

What pro-town reason is there to do this?

[farside22]

i thought the outed one and the dead one were morons.

unvote, vote: light

active lurking lurker needs to go.

Nice personal attack. Just because you can't bother to prove your "theory" as fact here at ms makes me a moron.
Lets add lurker hunting. What disco is all the sudden town to you?

[farside22]

wouldnt i have been able to tell my scumbuddies in the topic if i would've been scum?

Not if your lynched today.

[farside22]

... think farside, THINK

You haven't given me to see anythign pro-town about you and your obviously not scum hunting so........

[farside22]

I will leave it up to you folks here. I can try and salvage the game by looking for replacements and a new mod or you can abandon the game.
Please vote in bold

continue game

abandoned

with what you prefer.
Thank you.

[farside22]

I guess DJ and Excedrin

[farside22]

Hewitt was indeed the other mason.

Mindgamer had Paltry and excedrin as scum. We all thought Disco's play was pure scum gambit after day 1.
Seriously trying to out the mason is so anti-town it's not even funny.