Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS)

[Nicodemus]

/prosoft

This kind of feels like a "2" universe, know what I mean?

Can we change our name to universe A?

Anyone get the reference?

[Nicodemus]

One of my kids bought me season 1 yesterday.

Anyone get the reference?

Smells like Futurama, maybe? Been a while...

Winners of the confirmation stage right here.

[Nicodemus]

As it stands it's still optimal for the teleporters to claim, and then target each other at Night, because we can then force the scumkill on odd Nights. In addition to that, it's best if we attempt to coordinate Nights as much as possible in order for the cross-targetting to be possible. It's nowhere close to broken anymore, as it gives us a net gain of 0 confirmed townies in the long run, but it can be used to force the hand of the scum, especially if the teleporter is someone who would otherwise be a potential lynch target.

This is just me trying to verify that I've understood what you've said, so please correct me if I'm wrong:

The idea is that claiming confirms the teleporter as town, and then the mafia are forced to kill that player at night because otherwise there would be a confirmed townie teleporting into our universe, correct? Well, why wouldn't this work every night, instead of every other night? It looks to me as if a new teleporter is picked as soon as the previous one is killed, so why don't the teleporters just claim every day and we'll be able to direct the mafia kill in that manner for the entire game? I'm not sure I see where the "odd Nights" come in for directing the scum kill.

[Nicodemus]

@Nicodemus: That's exactly the broken situation I pointed out via PM to the mod pre-game. The solution was that the selection of the new teleporter if the old one was killed or teleported now occurs BEFORE the mafia kill, meaning if the teleporter is killed by the mafia, the replacement will not be chosen until the next Night phase begins, and we will go an entire Day phase without knowing who the next will be (and therefore we cannot have them claim).

Ah. Should have read the rules closer. Still sounds like a good plan though, so I support this.

Something else that I was thinking about for this game: the teleporter (on even nights of course if we're going with Kairyuu's plan) should try to teleport the player most likely to be scum out of our universe. Since our wincon is just to eliminate all scum from this universe, our teleporter would act more like a vig than anything, cutting down on either mafia or potential mislynches.

[Nicodemus]

Mod: can the teleporters teleport themselves, and if so, what effect will that have on their teleporting ability?

[Nicodemus]

yeah, and right now all they're discussing is avatars and jershey shore >_<

[Nicodemus]

I like Nicodemus' avatar. Simpsons is always fun to look at

tyvm

[Nicodemus]

No, it's not the best plan:

At night, your team may choose to shoot one person. You may shoot someone

in any universe that your team has a player alive in.

Win condition: You win when your team wins in EITHER universe you are in. You win a universe when you have

eliminated all other mafia team members

We want to transfer one of our mafiosos to the other universe, and have them transfer one of theirs to ours. That potentially results in mafia killing other mafia, especially since the ultimate goal is to win in both universes

Exactly.

This is why we should use our teleports on the scummiest people. It:

a) gets potential scum out of our universe, which is as good as a lynch for our wincon

b) sets up cross-kills for the two mafias

c) eliminates possible mis-lynch candidates

The question is, is it better for us to use the teleports every night, or is the confirmed townie every other day more useful for town?

[Nicodemus]

From what I've read of the other universe, they aren't too quick to the uptake over there. Kind of stupid in general. Zoraster's system must have put all the crappy eggs in one basket by mistake. I doubt we need to worry about them sending over mafia, they'll probably pull one of ours in fact.

lol at this. There are some pretty well-known scummers over there, such as DGB, E_K, Ojanen, farside, Plum, Raskol, Rhinox (I have read games from all of these players prior to this game, and they seem quite skilled). My guess is they're just getting their pre-game shenanigans out, so they can settle in and be rational scum-hunters later.

I think Plum might be underestimating our universe a little though, but we'll see.

[Nicodemus]

In effect, it's like having two lynches. We could potentially win by the end of day 2.

I think Jack's point is quite interesting. While there's 3 of a mafia group alive, they'd probably kill in the universe where they had 2 members if they were split (unless they thought they'd be teleported out soon).

Where did we find out there were 3 mafia members exactly? When I was reading through the role list, I figured there were only two. Are you just basing your speculation on balance, or do you have some extra information?

Vote: Jack

FoS: Elmo

Because it's as good as anything right now.

[Nicodemus]

The sign-up had the full setup. The second posts of each game have now had the setups added.

Ah.

Unvote: Jack

Vote: Maelyn

Go wagon go!

[Nicodemus]

@Mykonian in U1: since you're against all teleporting between universes, how do you feel about the kairyuu's plan to have the teleporters claim? Is this beneficial to town, and to both universes?

[Nicodemus]

@Mykonian in U1: since you're against all teleporting between universes, how do you feel about the kairyuu's plan to have the teleporters claim? Is this beneficial to town, and to both universes?

Confirmed townies are cool. So yes, Kai already knows he is brilliant, I just confirm it.

mykonian agrees with kairyuu, if that means anything.

I'm pretty sure I do as well. Having a confirmed townie every other day will narrow the pool of possible scum, which is a big plus. I think that on even days though, we should still be sending our scummiest players over to U1.

[Nicodemus]

OK, well, sounds like we have our strategy then. Which universe wants to Pull first?

Also, anyone voting kairyuu = silly

[Nicodemus]

Personally, I think the pull/push sequence should be left in the hands of the teleporter, and try not to follow a too predictable sequence.

But that decision is really out of our hands so Kair, propose away and add to Pop's wrinkles

The thing is though, the teleporter will

have

to follow a predictable sequence (see the corrections to the rules). The pattern is set in motion for the rest of the game after the 2nd night, which means if we want our strategy to work effectively one universe will be (P, T, T) and the other will be (T, P, T). We just need to figure out which is which so that we can leave enough time before the deadline to get the necessary claims in for both universes.

[Nicodemus]

@pop: No. Arms races are not good things. The strategy we have now is very effective, and benefits your universe just as much as your plan does (without the nasty side-effect of kicking our universe in the balls). You'll still get confirmed townies coming into your universe every 3 days, plus you'll have a whole lot more game to analyze and scumhunt in besides just quicklynch wagons.

One question I do have though, is what is the procedure for Teleports? Are the teleporters still sending the scummiest players to the other universe? Or lurkers? Is the decision just going to be left up to them? Is no-teleport an option?

[Nicodemus]

@Anon: I'll just give you the hypotheical situation below.

Universe 1 goes into night ahead of us. This means that if U2's teleporter claims, the teleporter in U1 can teleport him into U1 at night, and scum won't be able to NK him (because preference is given to the universe which exits the day first). This way, U1 will enter D2 with a completely confirmed townie on their side, and will also dictate the scum kill N2 (unless they want to leave a confirmed alive).

Then, on D2 the actions are reversed - U2 will enter Night ahead of U1, so that U1's teleporter can claim and be teleported into U2. Now U2 has a completely confirmed townie as well, and thus the scum's NK is dictated for N3.

Since the mod has informed us that the pattern of teleports/pulls must be maintained throughout the game, neither side will get a confirm on D3, but the cycle will start again on D4 and D5.

The only thing that hasn't been made clear for me yet is what our teleporters are going to do with their teleports - are they going to teleport out scummy people, or lurkers, or could they even choose to not teleport? I'm leaving this one for kairyuu to answer when he gets back, because I have no idea.

[Nicodemus]

Unvote

Vote: DRK

for not scumhunting in the right universe.

[Nicodemus]

Prod received. I'll be rereading and posting something relevant later tonight.

[Nicodemus]

Our universe should get all the Universe 2 mafia to claim right now.
We teleport 1, they day teleport 1 of their own and we lynch town. Then immediatly lynch town and teleport the third, before Universe 1 can react. (Or lynch anyone they teleport over)

Not good for the Mafia of Universe 2 of course, but we'd get a Universe 2 town win by the end of the week.

This is unfeasible to the point of ridiculousness, and kind of makes me think that you're trying to earn town points by suggesting strategies. Why would the mafia agree to this, ever? This was a pointless post, all it did was make it look like you were contributing.

My gut grumbles at you, Jack.

Vote:Kise

@Jack: Could you explain this blatant OMGUS please?

So, DRK your opinion is to teleport the players that aren't participating? I like that idea.

^^^ I endorse this. Teleport all Lurkers.
The trying to lynch faster so we teleport faster sounds interesting. Have to think about it.

My gut rumbles at this post. Sounds like you're endorsing quicklynching (which would likely benefit scum) but you're hesitant to take an actual stand on the issue.

Jack, can you provide examples of what you are saying about fhq? That very much seemed like an opportunistic jump (especially since you don't give a case, and yes, a case INCLUDES examples of your accusations) to vote him. You are accusing him of not putting in sincere thought, can you also provide examples of where you find this to be so?

All this talk about strategies all sound to me like plans to discourage town to actually scumhunt.

So, by your own claim here, half of your posts were deliberately discouraging the town from actual scumhunting.

This is just reaching now.

Vote: Jack

Starbuck chainsawing for fhqw noted.

Mykonian in the other universe says I'm smart, for what it's worth.

Maybe you didn't read that right, Jack.

@ the other universe

. Jack is trying to be smart and manipulative.

Town doesn't manipulate. Jack is scum.

Nice misrepresentation of mykonian.

This however I find hilarious beyond all description.

------------------

Eh, I kind of started to lose focus towards the end of my reread, but I think I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote

Vote: Doc

. His posts feel forced to me, like he's trying too hard be town. Other people I see as scummy as of right now would be fhwqhgads, Ellibereth, and possibly Starbuck.

[Nicodemus]

Might have over-reacted to Elli. Thinking back, and reading back, I never explicitly said that I prefer playing as scum though I believe it could be infered from the end of game comments for mini901.

Unvote

So now that the pressure is off you don't feel as much of a need to OMGUS?

Affirm Vote

[Nicodemus]

I could still go for Nico. But honestly, it's good that we're deadlined...

What's your case on me again? Because I can't remember.

[Nicodemus]

Ugh, sorry for the lurking in this game again. I'll do my best to get something posted in this game tomorrow.

Welcome to the game VP! Glad I get to play with you. And I'm even more glad that you replaced into a townie slot, at least from where I'm sitting.

[Nicodemus]

Welcome to the game VP! Glad I get to play with you. And I'm even more glad that you replaced into a townie slot, at least from where I'm sitting.

Indeed, nice to see you. Would have liked you on the Jack wagon yesterday, but I'll forgive you if you come over today.

Obliged.

Vote: Jack

[Nicodemus]

Jack, Maelyn, and fhqwhads are my picks, with a small, nothing but gut feeling that Elmo could also be scum. The fact that scum can day-talk in this game makes it much more likely (at least in my opinion) for scum to pull of elaborate gambits, and I think that Jack and Elmo going for each others' throats yesterday and today might be such a gambit. It doesn't matter which one gets lynched, as the other will instantly gain townie cred. As I said though, this is nothing but gut.

[Nicodemus]

As I said though, this is nothing but gut.

Does this apply to

Jack, Maelyn, and fhqwhads are my picks...

too?

No, just for Elmo. I have at least a couple concrete things on everyone else.

[Nicodemus]

OH, NOW I get it, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.

Vote: Jack

The teacher tells the class to pick a number between one and a hundred. The number closest to half of the average gets five bonus points on the next test. What number do you pick? It has to be an integer.

I'd probably pick 25, as I doubt many kids in my classes would be able to figure out what the question was even about.

[Nicodemus]

And Nicodemus I see browsing, what are you thinking about Nicodemus?

I'm thinking we've caught scum is what. I'm also thinking that if you are scum, then Ellibereth is almost guaranteed town, as I see it as basically impossible that he's bussing from a different universe. Also, I think that Lowell would be a fine teleport-ee for tonight.

[Nicodemus]

Wait, if the winner is the person closest to half

the average

, wouldn't that mean whoever picked the lowest number won the bonus points?

Not if he picked 1 and everyone else picked 99 (an unlikely scenario to be sure, but he certainly wouldn't win them).

Also, if Jack was picking his Night Kill victim he would just post in the QT. Which he's probably doing now.

------------

Edit by way of preview: Sowwy VP. I like logic questions though...

[Nicodemus]

Nothing more really till today, when he opportunistically votes me and again fos's elmo. He uses "scum can day talk" as part of the evidence. Very non obvious, I had to hunt for it in the OP. He didn't have to check up on the "how do you know there are three mafia?" think because the mod corrected him. Ergo, he knows scum could day talk because he's scum, and he was making up that thing about "how do you know there are three mafia" because he's scum.

Just to touch on this: I knew mafia could day talk because I read the set-up post, and day-talking stuck out to me as a major boost to scum. I did not know that there were three mafia per team because this information was not in the set-up post when I voted you.

Now please, die.

[Nicodemus]

In effect, it's like having two lynches. We could potentially win by the end of day 2.

I think Jack's point is quite interesting. While there's 3 of a mafia group alive, they'd probably kill in the universe where they had 2 members if they were split (unless they thought they'd be teleported out soon).

Where did we find out there were 3 mafia members exactly? When I was reading through the role list, I figured there were only two. Are you just basing your speculation on balance, or do you have some extra information?

Vote: Jack

FoS: Elmo

Because it's as good as anything right now.

The sign-up had the full setup.

The second posts of each game have now had the setups added.

[Nicodemus]

Thoughts on the game:

I think, since we've thrown the synchronization off so much between our two universes, that it would be best for us to wait until the other universe goes into night and see what transpires over there before finalizing the lynch for today. Our universe's teleporter has to pull from the other universe tonight, so we should probably wait and get as much information as possible about the other verse before our teleporter has to finalize their choice.

Thoughts on scummy (or previously scummy) people:

DRK

seems off to me. He is using his scumlist from yesterday to vote for Ani, but only because one of the people on his list was Elli. I didn't get why he put someone in the other universe on his scumlist yesterday, but now it just seems opportunistic, as it allows him to get by with only being suspicious of two people that matter instead of three. I could even see see his scumlist falling into the "1 in 3" rule, where Elli is the scum but since he's hidden in the other universe DRK can avoid attacking him outright.

FoS: DRK

Lowell

is falling off of my scumdar. He seems to be playing this game as a barnacle basically, but I feel like this is a difficult style to pull off for scum in as open a way as he is. I'm going to call Lowell town for now.

fhqwgads

does look to be setting up mislynches in 513. He's using Baltar's towniness as "proof" for lynches today. Just because Baltar was town does not mean that he was on to scum. You're just playing WIFOM games and trying to pass it off as scumhunting.

Kise

has been quite unhelpful throughout the game. Not sure if that qualifies him as scum though.

And there are

a lot

of null-reads out there for me. Also, It doesn't bother me if Plum is scum from uni one (yay rhymes!), because she's doing about 80% of the scumhunting right now. She looks very pro-town to me.

Vote: fhqwgads

[Nicodemus]

I need to do an in depth re-read of this game.

[Nicodemus]

Mod: If a player from our universe is pulled into universe one, will we be sent there immediately or do we first have to go into night for the pull to take effect? Similarly, if a player is teleported into our universe from Uni 1 will they be here right away or will we have to go into night first?

[Nicodemus]

Thank you very much.

Well, with that in mind I think it would be best for us to sit tight until the other universe has submitted their night actions, and see what transpires over there. Still working on that reread, but the lurking going on in this universe is really sapping my energy for the game.

[Nicodemus]

Thank you very much.

Well, with that in mind I think it would be best for us to sit tight until the other universe has submitted their night actions, and see what transpires over there. Still working on that reread, but the lurking going on in this universe is really sapping my energy for the game.

I agree the lurking is annoying. I disagree about waiting until U1 day to do anything.

I didn't mean we shouldn't be doing stuff/scumhunting, just that we should wait to see what happens over there before lynching.

[Nicodemus]

OK guys, could I get 2-3 scum reads from everyone, pretty pretty please?

Mine would be: fhqwads, Kise, and Starbuck (for especially egregious lurking)

[Nicodemus]

EBWOP: completely forgot about Elmo. Take Kise off, put Elmo on.

Really, I"m pretty close to suggesting some policy lynches on some of these lurkers. They're just dead weight for us right now and are doing nothing to help the town.

[Nicodemus]

Scumreads: Lowell, Kise, maybe ani. Fwfggsdfwegfy could go, too. I am still standing by my read of Lowell. Please guys.

Nico: No one's doing nearly enough to help the Town and that sucks. I include myself in that statement.

Lowell has been working pretty hard to keep town going today, and I really only saw him as scum if he was partnered with Jack. Since Jack flipped town Lowell has dropped a lot on my scumdar.